Building Resilience In Our Kids

In this episode, Kristina and Heather dive into the powerful role frustration and disappointment play in building resilience in children. They explore the concept of the "wall of futility," where kids face tough moments that help them develop essential problem-solving and coping skills. Rather than rushing in to rescue, they discuss the importance of empathy and the value of allowing children to sit with their feelings. Sharing personal stories and practical strategies, Kristina and Heather offer tips on how parents can support their kids through difficult emotions—without fixing everything for them. Tune in for a heartfelt conversation on balancing advocacy with fostering independence - and learn how to help our children navigate life's challenges with confidence and adaptability.

Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood is recorded and edited by Dave Purnell and produced by Jen Plante Johnson for the ODC Network in Holland, Michigan.

The ODC Network is a non-profit organization that strives to advance outdoor education and conservation in West Michigan. 

Since 2000, The ODC Network has served over a million people through hands-on, outdoor learning experiences and conserved thousands of acres of native habitat through restoration and preservation projects.

The ODC Network’s vision is building a better community by connecting people, land and nature. To learn more and get involved go to: www.odcnetwork.org.

Transcript

Kristina  00:00

Welcome back, everyone. Today, we're diving into a topic that might feel a little tricky: allowing our kids to experience frustration and disappointment.

Heather  00:09

Yes, it sounds counterintuitive, but these experiences are absolutely essential for building resilience and problem-solving skills.

Kristina  00:18

Absolutely. We're going to talk about the concept of the “wall of futility.” It's where kids face their emotions head on, which is crucial for adapting and coping. 

Heather  00:29

And here's the thing, we need to approach their distress with empathy, allowing them to hit that wall before moving them towards acceptance, right?

Kristina  00:38

It's tempting to minimize their feelings or distract them, but that can actually hinder their growth. We want to empower them, not rescue them.

Heather  00:50

Exactly, celebrating their ability to work through disappointment without showering them with praise builds their independence and confidence in themselves.

Kristina  00:59

It's all about acknowledging their journey, not just the outcome. We'll share some personal stories about our own kids navigating tricky times. 

Heather  01:08

Oh, those moments are pure gold. It's so important to resist the urge to swoop in and save the day, especially when it's so hard to watch them struggle.

Kristina  01:20

Definitely. We need to foster empathy while also understanding that life's challenges are essential for growth.

Heather  01:29

And let's not forget the balance between advocating for our kids and also allowing them to develop those independent skills that can be a really fine line to walk. 

Kristina  01:39

So true finding that balance is key. Let's dive into these strategies and stories and help our listeners navigate this important aspect of parenting, nurturing resilience in our kids.

Heather  01:57

Welcome to Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood,

Kristina  02:00

A podcast where we explore the struggles and challenges we all face as parents. We'll share ideas and offer tips and strategies for raising happy, healthy children. My name's Kristina Boersma.

Heather  02:13

And I'm Heather Bouwman. Kristina and I are clinical social workers who've been working with families and children for a good long minute. We're support service directors for the Early Childhood Network of ODC Network in Holland, Michigan; and we get to support parents and children as they navigate the tricky terrain of raising children and growing up in today's world. 

Kristina  02:35

We’re here to help unpack the hard stuff and connect with the joy of parenting.

Heather  02:41

Are you ready?

Heather and Kristina  02:42

Let's hit the trails.

Heather  02:48

This project is made possible by the ODC Network, an amazing nonprofit organization based in Holland, Michigan where we get to work supporting preschool age students, their teachers and their parents.

Kristina  03:00

The ODC Network is all about nurturing the community and the next generation through a wide variety of innovative nature based initiatives. 

Heather  03:09

Please visit www.ODCNetwork.org to learn more about the ODC Network's mission and impact.

Kristina  03:18

Welcome back. We're so glad that you decided to join us today. We get to talk about building resilience in our children, and I'm excited to talk about this today. I know you are too, Heather.

Heather  03:30

I am. It's an important skill, a really important skill.

Kristina  03:35

And we have entire generations of individuals who haven't built that skill. Their frustration tolerance is very low. They don't have the skills to manage being disappointed. And they are very much attuned to wanting what they want now.

Heather  03:54

Yes. Instant gratification, a lot of validation needed and an inability to adapt. Wow, it is a really big factor. And resilience is really building the skill to be able to adapt. 

Kristina  04:13

It is and we get to talk about how we can build that in our children. It's not especially complicated, but it is something that many of us do not do naturally. It takes some real intentionality behind it. And in fact, you know, I'm, we're social workers, I tend to be a rescuer, and I've had to work on that in my life.

Heather  04:37

We're different in this way. Yeah, we tend to, well, we both have empathy and compassion, and, sister, you do have more of it. And our training is different. I mean, we both went through the same graduate program, but I also have a Criminal Justice -  I mean, I think one class more, and I would have had a Bachelor's in Criminal Justice, because I just loved it so much. So I'm trained also in all of that, justice and accountability, and so we like to say there's an awful lot of empathy, but there's also a little kick in the butt at the end of it.

Kristina  05:14

Yes, yes. And I have learned to do the kick in the butt at the end of it, but it's taken some work, because I am naturally inclined to want to rescue people. If anyone is distressed or if they are upset or if they are grieving, I am all in with the empathy and wanting to help them move to a place where they're feeling less distress, where they're feeling more comfort and more peace. And the same is true for working with children. 

Heather  05:44

It's really good that you're comfortable in that space, but so many people aren't. And I imagine that's why we have a solid generation, maybe generation plus, of kids that are struggling to cope with lots of things. So it's great that you're comfortable in that space, but it's how do we get parents to understand that we need to be comfortable in that space and be present in that space, right? Because people want to just get to the happy. They want to move through too quickly. So people have been saying forever and ever and ever: This next generation. Are they broken? Like, what's wrong? Right? No responsibility, right? Yeah, irresponsible, going to hell in a hand basket. Like, these are things that have been said forever and ever and ever. And really it's that our world has always changed and evolved, but this digital technology world changes faster than I mean, just even for us post grad school, like do you remember an undergrad? I don't know about you, but I had to trudge to the fourth floor and make copies. Or you had to look through the micro film. Oh, we're really aging ourselves. But like, you can just pull - we can pull stuff up on the internet now, and it's right there at our fingers while you're still in bed.

Kristina  07:12

I mean, it's crazy, right? The access to these things. It is. So building resilience is even more important, because there's so much coming at us as adults and our children so quickly, so many opportunities. Our schedules are so full, there's less time to connect.

Heather  07:33

And there's way more to manage with a developing brain. Way more to manage. I think about my childhood where we just kind of played all day in the summer and we weren't being shuttled from all these activities. And there really weren't many activities to be involved in. There just weren't.

Kristina  07:52

You rode around on your bike with your neighborhood friends.

Heather  07:54

You did. And now there's just so much. Many of them, very good things to be involved in, but the ask on children is bigger. Way bigger. The demands are higher. The ask on parents is way bigger, for sure.

Kristina  08:13

So learning how to build resilience in children is kind of critical. 

Heather  08:21

Really, really could have, really, if you think of it in terms of what happens is if a child doesn't have the opportunity to feel disappointment, number one, to have someone surround them in that disappointment, and then to get good at that coping and adaptability. We grow up to have an adult who doesn't function very well in the world. They just don't know how to function in the world, right?

Kristina  08:54

And we have the opportunity to teach that. How cool is that? We just need to know how. So for me, Little Miss empathy over here, I like to be with people in the midst of their upset, have them not alone. But I don't like it when people are feeling upset, especially my own daughter. So most parents don't right. We don't want our kids to feel frustrated. We don't want them to be upset and disappointed. It's not happy and sad.

Heather  09:23

I mean, just seeing our kids, even of their own doing, experiencing pain and disappointment, it's really hard. It's painful for us. I remember saying to my kids, as they were getting bigger and making decisions and had to miss out on things, “It's really hard. It's hard for me too to watch you feel that disappointment.” 

Kristina  09:46

So because that's so hard, we do a couple of things as parents. We can minimize what our child is feeling, you know, “Oh, you know, that's not such a big deal. That's not, you know, that's not so bad.” We can minimize it. Or we threaten, like, “I'll give you something to cry about,” which is a phrase that's been uttered more times than I can ever imagine. Or if our child is in the midst of upset, we try to distract them and we say, “Hey, let's go look at the puppies. Let's go look at the puppies at you know, the breeders, should we go for a walk and get some ice cream?” We distract them, because we just want the frustration and the distress to end, and we want to move them right back into happy and that is a way to really kind of cripple our children, because they're never allowed to actually experience frustration. We've never been taught as parents the importance of frustration in our children's development. 

Heather  10:50

That's very true. Wow, they should change them absolutely when leap right over the hard. Yes, because then we have kids, as they grow, that can't manage hard. And hard will come 

Kristina  11:05

Yes. Yes. And resilience is a really key component of emotional well being. And along with that resilience and those coping skills, also come problem solving skills, absolutely if you are stuck in the distress and frustration, and you have been trained your whole life that you will be rescued from it, somebody is going to come in and make it all better, then they never have the opportunity to develop their own problem solving skills.

Heather  11:38

And they rely on others to do that, to come in and do it. The real risk is going through life as a victim. Yes, where just things happen to you, rather than being an active agent in your own life. I think of when we returned, this was a few years back, my oldest, Zack, was driving, and we had all traveled together. And he had driven his vehicle to the airport. We left it there along with ours. He parked in a little bit different area, but his battery had gone dead in the long-term parking and, of course, we had flown. We were ready to go home. It was still like a forty-five minute drive from the airport. And my husband knew this because they had walked out together. The rest of us stayed with the luggage, and he came back and he said, “Oh, Zack's got a dead battery. We're gonna have to figure that out.” And my husband had started - I don't know if he had called someone or if he had talked to airport security. I'm not sure what he had done. And they were like, “Oh, yeah, you're gonna have to call a tow truck.” And Zack, who was probably seventeen at the time, he was still in high school, said, “Oh, Dad, don't worry about it. You guys just go. I'll find somebody and they'll help me because I'm a kid. Like the airport people will be way more likely to help me because I'm a kid than to help you as a grown man.” And you know what? He was absolutely right. And we were like, “Fair enough, we're out of here.” We're gonna go and turn the heat back out in the house and, you know, unpack. And he had called within like, twelve minutes, we had gotten down the expressway, and he's like, “I'm all set. I got a jump.” And Travis said, “Who helped you?” He's like, “Oh, one of the security guards.” He was absolutely right.

Kristina  13:22

And he had the skills to solve his problem. He absolutely did that independently, which is beautiful. Yes. So one of the reasons we get excited about talking about this is because allowing your child to experience their distress and their frustration without rescuing them from it, or without trying to fix it, is, at least to me, counter-intuitive, and I think that's true for a lot of us, parents, to allow them to be sad and to allow them to experience that is tricky. 

Heather  13:56

So any of us are just uncomfortable in those emotions.

Kristina  13:58

Yes. So we want to really talk about, how do we better support our children in building their resilience through their times of upset, through their times of disappointment, through their times of distress, because it's important that we learn how to navigate those times. So that instead of creating a victim who doesn't have problem solving skills, we're building an individual who has resilience, right?

Heather  14:29

So one thing that we talk about a lot in the classes we teach is the “wall of futility,” which is this idea by Gordon Neufeld and we were introduced to Gordon Neufeld in Susan Stiffleman’s book, Parenting Without Power Struggles, which we both love. I think it is a powerful parenting book. She puts things in very simple terms, and then uses really powerful examples to illustrate those points. Which I really like about her book. It's wonderful. But Gordon Neufeld is a psychologist who says children need to be brought to the “wall of futility.” And he talks about it, that children that are experiencing disappointment need to be moved into their feelings of sadness and even really tears. Yes, they have to move through those emotions to the point of tears before really being able to move beyond. Yes and adapt. And that once those tears come, and I believe he, or Susan, one of them, talks about like, sometimes even priming the pump for the tears, like, if you see your child and they might have that little lip quiver going, that you can just empathize with them so much and make a sad face and say, “I know it's so hard. We love visiting grandma and grandpa and the cousins. So hard. We had such a good-“ and all of a sudden the tears are falling. 

Kristina  16:15

Yeah, you're about to make me cry. That's really good. You've got a really good-

Heather  16:17

And once those tears come, the child has a level of understanding that life doesn't always go the way we plan, but that in the midst of it,

Kristina  16:31

We can be okay. That you can survive.

Heather  16:35

You can absolutely survive. And you can rely on the people around you to be in those feelings with you. I think it's the movie “Inside Out,” which is a good number of years old, but I think in there, it specifically says, you cannot feel full joy without also experiencing sadness, right? And this is the same idea, we can remember the wonderful things about being at Grandma's with the cousins and all the things, and at the same time, hold the sadness of it's coming to an end. And then we fully grieve that, that it's happening, and the tears come. But we adapt with the understanding of, “I can do this, I can make it.” And I've got this person - mom, dad, whomever it might be - here with me. Yep, being present, not rushing to all of the things that you said in the beginning. Let's go get ice cream. Right? Knock it off. There's no reason for that. We've had a wonderful time. You don't say “If you cry, we're not coming back again,” right? Just being present.

Kristina  17:47

Yeah and approaching that “wall of futility” with your child. We do that with all the empathy in the world. We do not diminish it. We do not threaten. We do not, you know, try to distract even if it seems ridiculous to us. We say, “Oh, I see how disappointed you are. You were really hoping to XYZ, and so you're disappointed that that didn't happen.” And you stay in that empathy until they hit the wall. And, you know, they fit the wall, really, when those tears come, or there's this big, deep breath and you hear something like, “maybe next time” out of their mouths, or, “I guess I could go do something else,” 

Heather  18:39

They come up with it. And what that is is adapting. Yes, they are coming into being able to accept. It's acceptance. And then it's learning how to adapt and practicing that skill. And for us, it sometimes takes everything within us to resist that urge to fix all of those problems. And to just soak in all of that emotion for them, rather than letting them experience it. But having them experience it, it really is a grief response. And so you literally move through the stages of grief, which are denial, anger, bargaining, sadness or depression, and then finally, acceptance. The sadness and depression part is those tears, right? It's knowing you have come all that way from the denial, and then maybe an anger tantrum is what that would look like with the young child, and then the bargaining. But it's all where they attempt to negotiate.

Kristina  19:50

Yes. And your little parental heart is going to want to soothe them and make it better and make it better.

Heather  19:56

And we need to just keep going. And then from bargaining we go into that sadness, “I know, honey, yeah, we're just, we're gonna really just sit here and be so grateful for the time we had with grandpa and grandma, but we're leaving.” And then acceptance, and that's the skill building.

Kristina  20:29

Sometimes we think of this being just a skill you build in early childhood, but this technique the “wall of futility” works no matter how old you are. No matter how old our children are, it still works. The other really beautiful thing is that the more a child experiences being kind of shepherded to the “wall of futility,” the less they need to hit the wall. 

Heather  20:58

Yeah, because they build the shepherding they need. Yes, like it becomes a much shorter journey as time goes on and their confidence goes up. Yep, their happiness is experienced more fully because they've also experienced great sadness and great disappointment.

Kristina  21:19

Yep, so it can be something like leaving grandma and grandpa's or it could be something like being at the store and really wanting to buy Oreos, but you're not buying Oreos this week because you've had Oreos in the house the last six months, and you just can't- I mean, you're eating Oreos like crazy. So we're not getting the Oreos, but the child really wants the Oreos. And that's an opportunity for them to reach the “wall of futility” as well. We're not getting the Oreos, but it's not me as the parent getting frustrated and angry with my child who really wants the Oreos. It's being able to recognize, and this is tricky. In the midst of it is being able to recognize, Aha, I have an opportunity to be on the same side as my child. “Oh, I know, boy, it was fun having those Oreos in the house, wasn't it? We used to lick that cream, ooh, and dunk them in the milk, and it was so fun. I know, yep. We're not going to be getting the Oreos.” “But I really want them” and maybe the tantrum comes and as the adult, you're also tolerating this upset and saying because it's part of the process.

Heather  22:23

Yes, and that's what we can remind ourselves in the midst of it. It's like, “Okay, we're in anger. We're progressing. Next they're gonna try to bargain with me.”

Kristina  22:36

Yep, exactly. We know what's gonna happen. Yeah. So you don't have to wait until there's a big thing that's happened that your child is so super distressed over or disappointed about. We have these things happen every day. So maybe it's you know, Grace has chosen to wait until the weekend to do the majority of her schoolwork that makes her pretty lousy Saturday and Sunday, when it's like, oh, you've got six algebra assignments. And she gets upset about that, and she goes on about how, you know, algebra is so stupid, and why do I have to do it? And she's all escalated. And that's yet another opportunity to say, “Yep. I know. Yep, and I wish you didn't have to do them too, but they're here to do.” And it's not a time for me to say, “Well, you chose to wait until the weekend to do them. And now it stinks, right?”

Heather  23:28

I mean, at Grace's age, they know that they don't need us to tell them, right?

Kristina  23:31

And in fact, part of that process was beating herself up about the fact that she had waited and so again. So real life, yes. But walking to that wall and then having that big “Okay, let's get started,” right? Like, yep, because reality is reality, the algebra needs to get done. It's not going away. Huffing and puffing isn't going to change it. It just has to get done. So moving through the upset to that point of resilience and to the point of adaptation and acceptance, it's like a little dance that you do, and the more you do it, the more the skills grow.

Heather  24:14

Starts very early. It could be over toys. It could be over socks. It could be over so many things, big, little, the issues get bigger as the kids get bigger. But like you had said, the more we bring them to the “wall of futility,” the more quickly they're able to move through those stages of grief and then realize, “Okay, it is what it is” which is really the essence of the “wall of futility.” It's the acceptance of: this is the reality and of that, where we're at, and it's not going to change. And then that's the adaptability piece.

Kristina  24:56

Yes, we can without intending to make that process take a whole lot longer, if we forget when our child or our partner or our spouse is experiencing the distress and disappointment, if we forget that we're on the same team, right? Well, yeah, if you go poking the bear, oh no, you are with them with empathy up to the wall. It's not the time to say, “Oh, you're so ungrateful. We got a toy last time we were at the store.”

Heather  25:25

And it's not the time to teach, “Wow, if you'd have done that differently and made a different choice” or telling people to calm down…

Kristina  25:34

Yeah, nobody's ever calmed down by being told to calm down. It makes me more angry the whole big time, like I”'ll show you, calm down. Here we go.” So being on the same team, you're with your child in the midst of that upset as they approach the wall. You can, like you had said earlier, prime the pump, with your verbal skills and your non verbal skills - 

Heather  25:59

With the facial expressions, the, you know, the voice. Even if you can make your own eyes water. And some kids, we've had a lot of parents if a child is just kind of malcontent and just not just kind of combative all the time. For a young child, we talk about them having a low-grade fever of frustration, that's just kind of simmering away. And we'll ask, like, “Does your child cry very often?” And it's an interesting question to parents, because they'll pause, and kind of can see them really thinking, and usually they say “no.” And that's because they maybe aren't brought to the wall, and you don't prime that pump. And they might not naturally be a crier, or they might not naturally be a child who's going to be comfortable sitting in their feelings. Some kids are way more comfortable than others. Some kids really need to be taught how to do that.

Kristina  27:04

Oh, I love how you said that, “being able to sit in their feelings,” because that was what was difficult for me with Grace. I didn't want her to feel that, right? I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't comfortable sitting with her in her feelings. And would have been prone to rescue. And so I really needed to be intentional about seeing those as opportunities to grow skills and breathing and identifying “I don't feel comfortable, and that's okay, because I know that feeling uncomfortable is survivable.” I can survive feeling uncomfortable, upset, disappointed, all the things we're hoping to teach our children as well.

Heather  27:44

Yeah, it's a super, super impactful and important skill to teach how resilience impacts them and the foundation to build it impacts them for the rest of their lives.

Kristina  27:58

I think as parents, too, we've come to this place where we almost think it's our duty to help rescue our children.

Heather  28:08

Oftentimes, what I've heard parents say is, “My childhood was good, but I want their childhood to be better. I want it to be happier. I want it to be wonderful.” And that's a wonderful thing, but if we shortchange them on their ability to cope, on their ability to manage, on their ability to adapt, they become adults who struggle to cope, who struggle to manage, and who struggle to adapt, and that is much more challenging than a child who struggles with those things. And we want to grow them. So it requires zooming out and reminding ourselves, when it's uncomfortable for us, the reason why we're doing it: We're growing them. We're showing them.

Kristina  29:04

And as the adults, being able to differentiate between advocating for your child and not allowing them to grow in their independence.

Heather  29:14

That can be a tricky line sometimes. Because we want to - I think it gets really tricky sometimes for parents. We hear all these really, I don't know what I want to call them, negative, yucky, just these terms about parenting, like “lawnmower parent” or “helicopter parent,” or “hover mother” or “smother nature” or, yeah. I mean, there's all sorts of them, right? But really the essence of it is that you're kind of paving the way for your child, and we don't want them to experience any bumps, right? Or any potholes or any bends in the road that they're not anticipating. We just want it to be smooth sailing, the whole way.

Kristina  30:03

Removing any obstacles.

Heather  30:06

And really, that's not life. It is not life, because there will always be things, big things, sometimes, that need to be conquered or managed or adapted to. And then how are we setting them up for that? So I've spoken before about my kids, who all have dyslexia, and that was a journey for me, advocating for them from a very young age, and then taking what I believed was best for them and advocating to be able to teach them in the way that I thought they needed to be taught. And then also seeing that through, but not ever leading them to believe that they had a disability or that they were less than or that it was an excuse, like “We're gonna work hard. In fact, you have been working very hard.” But it is that line to dance between advocacy and I don't even know what I want to call it, undermining growth I think is what it really is. So it can be a really fine lines sometimes, at least it was for me as a parent, between advocacy and independence. I didn't want to short-change my child on being independent, feeling independent, growing independent, but there were times that I'll talk about Zack when he was in, I think, the eighth grade, and he had the opportunity to go away on a school trip for I think it was three nights, four days, or four nights, five days? I'm not really sure. He had expressed he didn't want to go. He had gone through this phase of not being terribly comfortable for a bit going away from home, which had been new for him, and kind of came out of the blue. But as I look back on it, kind of also went along with just, I think in general, a confidence decrease for him personally. You know, when school is really hard for kids that can shake their confidence and rattle them a bit. And I think that was probably it for him. It wasn't a place of safety and security for him. And he didn't feel good being so far away from home. My husband and I were not able to go. Other parents did go, and he had communicated that, but they really wanted to be able to say that a hundred percent of the kids went, and that's a fine goal, if that's what's best for a hundred percent of the kids. And so I had to set up a time to speak with the teacher, who was wonderful. And I also had to just say, “You know, it's not that he wouldn't love this. He knows he would, and I'm sure there's going to be some grief and that he's going to miss it. But right now, he doesn't feel well equipped to do that, and he's been very anxious about it.” And while there's real benefits to pushing yourself enough to overcome that, there can also be consequences that can set you back if you're not listening, you know, to your inner voice on that. And that's a really tricky space to balance as a parent. I think it's a super tricky space to balance as a child. So Zack, we did the strategy that it was like when he was deciding stay or go, live with it. Just live with it one way or the other. Make the decision. Yes, I'm going live with that for a night or two, see how that feels. Now, make the decision, I'm not going and live with that for a night or two. How does that feel? And he ultimately decided it wasn't something that he felt he wanted to endure. And so I advocated for him and said, you know, for whatever reason, I didn't feel like I had to give great defense on that, because at the end of the day I'm the mom. He's my child. I choose to put him in the school, and at the end of the day I feel like I'm the mom. I get to say, right? And so it was fine, and he didn't end up going. And he had to do some other things to make up for that, but I remember saying to that teacher, we have to be really careful, because they had all of this mental health awareness stuff happening in his school at that time. And I said, we really have to make sure we're listening to the children. If you want to do better, begin by listening and then not telling them what they need, but joining them where they're at. And I said, I assure you, this child will go places and he will do things. I have no concerns of that whatsoever. And it was just a short two years later that he loaded on the church van and went to Colorado for a trip for ten days with our youth group. And that was great. And he had a wonderful time. And it was in his timing. And he felt really good about that. And it didn't take very long. So it's that line of as a parent, advocating for them, but also determining what's going to grow them, what's best for them. And those can be tricky things to tease out, really tricky things to tease out. And for me, just like I had recommended that he live with his choice, I had to kind of do the same thing myself and really think about what is my “why” on this because if my “why” is too enmeshed right? In his feelings? Yeah, that's not a good place to be. I'm not serving him well as his parent. But if I felt really confident that I was listening to him, that I wasn't forcing anything on him, that I was listening to his logic of the you know, thirteen or fourteen year old boy, then I could feel good about my own actions in response to that. Does that make sense? 

Kristina  36:49

It does make sense. And it's part of what makes this whole thing right, helping to support our children as they grow their resilience, their problem solving skills. It's not rocket science, but it is tricky in that it calls forth so many emotions. 

Heather  37:08

I just read  something, and I wish I could give credit to whoever it was. I have no idea, because I read a lot of things, but it said “parenting is a wonderful and worry-filled job,” and it really is. It is a wonderful, wonderful, worry-filled job. And it requires that balance. And it feels like a dance. It feels like a dance of, am I putting my foot down in the right place? Am I stepping on toes? Do I need to be more involved in this what's the perfect balance of growth and independence versus advocacy support and health and support? 

Kristina  38:03

Oh, enduring that time with your child within the upset as they're approaching the wall, not comfortable, but once they have reached the wall and moved to the other side into acceptance and problem solving. Oh, it's like the angels sing and it will take your breath away. As a parent think “they are doing it! they have solved their problem. They have come up with a way to be okay with the disappointment, with the frustration, they have adapted!” and that is wow, one of those really, really wonderful moments.

Heather  38:45

It's a proud parent moment. But I think it's important to verbalize I started making this shift with my kids. Rather than saying, “I'm so proud of you,” I started saying to them, “You should be so proud of yourself.” And man, was that just, it seems like a subtle shift, but it was really impactful to them. Even in texts, like you should be really proud of yourself.And they respond to it so differently than “I'm so proud of you,” because it it feels different to them. It's their ownership, right?

Kristina  39:24

And I'll ask it as a question, “Do you feel proud of yourself, because that was really hard,” right? And you did it, and building that sense of confidence, like “I did do it, I did do it.”

Heather  39:40

You sure did. Remarkable. Those are the moments to write down in your journal someplace, so that you can go back and look at them later and be like, yes, lots of things are hard, but then this. Those are some sweet things to read when you need a little pick me up. So there are these terms commonly used to describe parents, and they kind of, I mean, I can chuckle at them, but they kind of make me crazy, because parenting is not an easy job. No, it is not. It is joyful and it is heartbreaking all at the same time. And it can be exciting, it can also be really worrisome. But these terms like “lawnmower parent” or “smother mother”, or “smother nature”, or “helicopter parents,” like we've probably all been called those. 

Kristina  40:38

I'm sure we have well, and they're so derogatory. But the truth is that really, we're doing the best we can, all of us, right? Every day, we're doing the best we can. And trying to sort through our own stuff while trying to raise this human being and processing all of the things that came before in our life. I mean, it is not easy, right? And to have that reduced to “Oh, they're a lawnmower parent” is - 

Heather  41:06

And I get how it happens. I get how we the world is a bit scary. There's so many challenges. It's so vastly different growing up today than when we did. And I get wanting to protect kids from that, and we want them to be happy. And we want them to be fulfilled and to not have to be sad.

Kristina  41:36

And especially when you have a child who maybe has their own set of additional challenges, right? So, you know, Grace has dyslexia, and she has ADHD, and she struggles with anxiety and depression, and it's like, can I just move some of the obstacles out of her way? Because life is really hard. And so I just want to make something easier for her. And then figuring out, is that really benefiting her? Or is that about me? And what I'm feeling. It's when you need your village right to have somebody else be able to check you, and you've done this for me, Heather, over the years, and say, “but that might be a really important skill for her to build”, “that might be a really important experience for her to have in order to support her growth,” speaking about Grace and challenging me to take a look at it and think, “Am I doing a disservice to my child and clearing the path?”

Heather  42:39

Yeah. It removes some of the practice, right? It removes the ability for them to overcome. So resilience and building resilience, first, we have to build our own I think, because parenting requires great endurance and courage, and community. I think we have to have our people around us to be able to do it well. And our children, it's remembering to resist the urge to fix all of their problems for them, which is so tricky for all of us. And to allow them, as difficult as it may be to experience the feelings that come along with sadness and loss and disappointment, in order to grow their coping skills, in order to allow them to adapt and to eventually feel really good about their independence, and for us to celebrate that independence along with them.

Kristina  43:46

Absolutely. So when we're shepherding our child to the “wall of futility,” that is a time of empathy on your part as the adult, on my part as the adult, I'm living into empathy in that place, which means, let's give a scenario.

Heather  44:08

What would a common thing be?

Kristina  44:13

So I know I've mentioned before that my beautiful daughter Grace is passionate, kind of in every direction, right? Passionately angry and passionately happy. And things aren't just funny, they're hilarious. And she feels her feelings very intensely, all of her feelings. So one of the things that happens, and happened a lot when she was younger, and still happens now, even though she's a teenager, is that when we are leaving something, if we've been like at our family reunion, been with the cousins and aunt and uncles and grandma and grandpa for a week and are getting ready to leave, or even if you know we'd gone over to your house, Heather, to play, and the girls were playing, and we were probably working on something or visiting and it was time to go, Grace always had a lot of grief. It was grief. It was it was grief. And she would cry. And I remember, you know, like leaving family reunions and thinking she's gonna cry hard for a lot of this trip back, and we've got, like, twleve hours to go, and in the midst of that upset, needing to come to her with empathy, right? “We are leaving. The cousins are staying in Virginia and North Carolina and New York. We are headed back home Michigan.” So that's not changing, right? And I could approach her with being on the other side.

Heather  45:44

What would the empathy sound like? 

Kristina  45:46

The empathy sounds like, “Oh, Grace. I know you love them so much, and they love you. And it was great to be together. It was, it was, and that's why your heart is hurting, I know.”

Heather  46:02

Which is very different, from “Grace. Every time we visit, this happens. You know, we're going back home We're leaving. I don't want to hear it.” 

Kristina  46:14

Right. Or even “Well, maybe you should have spent more time with your cousins while you were there, because there was that time when you were off all by yourself building Legos and you could have spent more time with your cousins. I mean, you wasted some of the time.” That is the approach that you don't want to have. That's me against you. That's me telling you why you deserve to feel bad about it.

Heather  46:34

I'm passing judgment about how you spent your time, right? As opposed to coming alongside

Kristina  46:38

and saying, “Yes, my heart hurts because your heart hurts. And it's sad. And you're right, we don't know when we'll go again,” as opposed to, “Oh, well, we'll be back there in a few months, and that's not really that long. And you know, between now and then.” I always think to myself, sometimes as parents, we fall into this, like we almost try to be this little carnivalto distract them from the fact that they're really sad or they're grieving or something else. 

Heather  47:07

Yeah, it's like a performance, yeah? And you're an act, and that, that data, you know, it has to be appealing enough to draw them in, make them laugh-

Kristina  47:17

Make them laugh, and then it'll all be better, as opposed to sitting with them and sharing that upset until the wall is reached right? And then it's again, tears for Grace and that big sigh of, “You know, I wish we lived closer. It was so fun to be together…” 

Heather  47:40

And sometimes that wall and that grief, we can bring them to the wall, but going through those stages of grief, especially with big kids, can take some time. I think of my boys as they both went through breakups and saying to my husband, “I’m kind of worried about him. Man, he's not himself.” And then in the midst of that, having to guide them through it and say “it's really normal that you're feeling this way. I promise it's gonna pass. I promise it's gonna pass. It takes some time.”

Kristina  48:17

And not “I didn't like her anyway.”

Heather  48:21

No. Because she might come back, right?

Kristina  48:25

And that's not a pro tip.

Heather  48:27

Sometimes they re-emerge. And then you're like, “Oh snap.” No, you want to refrain from that until you're a good long ways down the road past that, but, yeah, stay in empathy and normalize for them. And of course, if you see them doing unhealthy things and being unhealthy, then we gotta reach out and get them help, right? But we can't short-change that process with big kids and big issues and big life lessons. They're learning that grief and the bargaining and the sadness, they can just hang a little longer until we get to that acceptance. And then when they get there, we can just celebrate so much. And even if it's “Wow, that was really, really hard” to be able to reframe it for them and say “That was super hard. But you learned in the midst of that and really, everybody goes through a breakup, and I'm really glad you had this practice, because next time, and there will be a next time, you'll know what it feels like, and you'll be better prepared for it.”

Kristina  49:56

Thank you so much for joining us for Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood. I'm Kristina.

Heather  50:02

And I'm Heather. And we're so grateful to join you on your parenting journey.

Kristina  50:06

Until next time-

Heather and Kristina

See you on the trails! 

Kristina 

The Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood podcast is brought to you by the ODC Network in Holland, Michigan. It is produced by Jen Plante Johnson, recorded and edited by Dave Purnell, with original theme music by Dave Purnell,

Heather  50:23

The ODC Network is a non-profit organization that strives to advance outdoor education and conservation in West Michigan.

Kristina  50:32

Since 2000, the ODC Network has served over a million people through hands on outdoor learning experiences and conserved thousands of acres of native habitat through restoration and preservation projects.

Heather  50:44

The ODC Network's vision is building a better community by connecting people, land, and nature. To learn more and get involved, go to www.ODCNetwork.org.