Teaching & Modeling Consent

In this episode, clinical social workers Kristina and Heather dive into the vital topic of teaching children about consent. They explore how fostering an understanding of boundaries, respect, and autonomy can empower kids to navigate their relationships with confidence. Through personal stories and real-life parenting examples, they highlight the importance of role-playing and modeling respectful behavior to help children learn how to ask for and give consent. Kristina and Heather also discuss the role of media in shaping kids' perceptions of consent and stress the significance of teaching that "no" means "no" and "stop" means "stop." Tune in for insightful tips on how to nurture a generation that values respect and autonomy in all relationships. 

Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood is recorded and edited by Dave Purnell and produced by Jen Plante Johnson for the ODC Network in Holland, Michigan.

The ODC Network is a non-profit organization that strives to advance outdoor education and conservation in West Michigan. 

Since 2000, The ODC Network has served over a million people through hands-on, outdoor learning experiences and conserved thousands of acres of native habitat through restoration and preservation projects.

The ODC Network’s vision is building a better community by connecting people, land and nature. To learn more and get involved go to: www.odcnetwork.org.

Transcript

Heather  00:00

Today, we're talking about something really important: teaching kids about consent. We're not just talking about the big stuff, but empowering our kids to ask for and give permission in everyday moments. 

Kristina  00:12

Exactly. It's about helping them understand that they have the right to say “no” at any time - and that their boundaries, whether it's physical touch or personal, space, should always be respected, 

Heather  00:25

And we as parents get to model that behavior too, from asking for hugs to respecting when our kids set limits, it's all part of teaching them how to respect themselves and others. 

Kristina  00:36

So we'll share some tips, stories and practical ways to make consent a part of our everyday parenting.  

Heather

This is a conversation that you won't want to miss. Let's dive in. 

Welcome to Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood

Kristina

A podcast where we explore the struggles and challenges we all face as parents. We'll share ideas and offer tips and strategies for raising happy, healthy children. My name is Kristina Boersma.

Heather

And I'm Heather Bouwman. Kristina and I are clinical social workers who've been working with families and children for a good long minute. We're support service directors for the Early Childhood Network of ODC Network in Holland, Michigan. And we get to support parents and children as they navigate the tricky terrain of raising children and growing up in today's world. 

Kristina

We're here to help unpack the hard stuff and connect with the joy of parenting. Are you ready? 

Kristina and Heather

Let's hit the trails! 

Heather

This project is made possible by the ODC Network, an amazing nonprofit organization based in Holland, Michigan where we get to work supporting preschool aged students, their teachers and their parents. 

Kristina

The ODC Network is all about nurturing the community and the next generation through a wide variety of innovative nature-based initiatives. 

Heather

Please visit www.ODCNetwork.org to learn more about the ODC Network's mission and impact.

Kristina  02:13

Today could be a little tricky. We're covering a topic that I think our culture is really lacking in and that is consent - giving consent, getting consent, and what that means. Today we're going to focus solely on consent. 

Heather  02:32

Yes, body safety will come later. 

Kristina  02:33

Yep, that's a different episode. And we will talk about that. But this episode is just on consent. And I think one of the things that can be really helpful when we talk about consent is to zoom out- 

Heather  02:47

Yes-

Kristina  02:47

And get that long view.

Heather  02:49

It has to be the long view. This was not easy for my husband. He didn't understand sometimes the way that I was speaking to our children. And I had to be able to say to him, “Man, they're not going to be little forever, like we have to have them ask permission.” We have to have their “yes” be able to become a “no” at any time, because eventually they're going to be in a vehicle somewhere with someone. Things have gone farther than they anticipated, and that “yes” can turn into “no” at any time. And everybody needs to understand it. And he was like, “Oh, now I'm terrified.” Yeah, I know. So it's really important that we teach it.

Kristina  03:31

And you never want to inadvertently communicate to your children that if somebody's bigger or they have more power, they can do anything they want. 

Heather  03:42

And I want to call out one more thing that's absolutely true: We never want to communicate that. We never want anyone to think just because I'm bigger, I hold the power. That is a dangerous outlook. And we want people to call that out if it's happening, right? We want to have kids that call that out. The other thing that I wanted to say is, gender wise, my husband wasn't as focused on this until he had a daughter. I don't think he really fully understood it. Now, he is a very respectful- 

Kristina  04:13

Well, he's very tender- 

Heather  04:15

He's tender. He's respectful. He would never, ever disregard someone's wishes or consent. It's just not who he is. I don't even know if it's within him. But not everyone is that way. And he being who he is, I don't think had thought about it for our boys, but once he had a daughter, then he could see the other side of it. But, really, it's equally as important that we teach our boys to ask for consent and to give consent, because that's not a one way street that is a two way street, and sometimes it feels like an expressway,

Kristina  04:55

Beautifully put. Teaching all of our children about consent is, I think, really critical. Empowering them to use their voice, and growing up expecting that they will be asked for their consent and regarded in that way.

Heather  05:12

And that begins in our homes. And that is what I just kind of naturally knew again with our training, maybe why it's not easy to be married to us. This is just something that feels very natural to us, right? I would say to my daughter, you know, “May I brush your hair? May I braid your hair? May I help you with your coat?” I would say it to my boys, “May I hold your hand?” Right? Would you like to hold my hand? We can't do that with everything. 

Kristina  05:43

We're not saying you have to, but when you can. 

Heather  05:44

Yes, absolutely ask consent, because it just becomes how you regard other human beings.

Kristina  05:51

And for our children, when they grow up being respected and asked for their consent for different things, then if they are in a situation where they're not that feels wrong, and we want it to feel wrong, and we want to have trained them to use their voice to say, “No, I'm not doing that,” and then how to move their bodies away, or to do something different. And it's not just like holding somebody's hand or brushing their hair. It doesn't have to be involving touch. It can also involve food or whether they're cold or whether they're hot, or many things. But saying, “You have bodily autonomy, child. And we aren't doing something to you without your consent.” 

Heather  06:42

And that's really rooted in respect and trust. It goes way back to your values that you're trying to teach, right? I distinctly remember my daughter, was probably six or seven, went to the ENT. She had been a kid that had had tubes in her ears. And she had many ear struggles. And she had just had tubes in. It was like, a week later, and her ear hurt. So went back in, and the doctor had said to her, “I just want to look in your ear. I just want to look at it. I know it hurts. I'm just going to look at it.” And she was like, “Oh.” I mean, she didn't love it, but she knew we had to figure out what's going on. So it's like, “Okay.” So he, you know, told her what he was going to do. She says, “Okay.” Consent. He then proceeds to look in the ear and says to his assistant, “Please hand me the blah, blah, blah.” And of course, I hear this, and he has said he's only going to look. And the assistant looks at me, which is, as I pick up on as a cue of, “Oh, we're going somewhere else all of a sudden,” like we've moved on from “we're just going to look.” And I didn't know what this instrument was. I had no idea what it was called, but what it looked like was a needlenose pliers. It was a medical instrument of some sort. And she handed it to him, but she looked at me. And we were uncomfortable. But it all happened so quickly. He went in that ear, and he pulled that tube out, and Ava went ballistic. And so did her mother. I was furious. What he said to her when she went ballistic was, “Oh, that didn't hurt. You don't need to make a fuss about that.” And her mother said, “I don't believe that's what she's making a fuss about. In our home, when you tell someone you're not going to do something, we trust that. You told her you were only going to look.” And then you then it got real quiet. But the assistant made eye contact with me, and she was darling, and pregnant. And I think she thought, “Oh yeah. You go, Mama.” 

Kristina

I'm sure she was cheering inside. 

Heather

I thought, “Oh honey, get a different job.” 

Kristina  09:00

Yeah. Well, and observing you do that, that was really important for Ava.

Heather  09:06

Yeah, we never went back. No, I just shut my mouth after that and we left because nothing good was gonna come out. And I now remember this in my mind's eye, like I'm carrying her out to our vehicle, and she's like, “Mommy, I did not like that.” And all I could do was empathize and say, “Sweetheart, neither did I. Yeah, that shouldn't have happened, right? He made a mistake, right? He didn't know. He wasn't taught.”

Kristina  09:29

And even though he's the doctor, right? We could see them as authority figures. You can still say, “No way. Not on my watch. And so that's not how we do it.

Heather  09:40

I remember putting her in her car seat and wiping her tears and saying, “We're gonna find a different doctor. We won't go back.” “Okay, mom.” And it just broke my heart a little bit. Yeah, and then, of course, I had to go home, and my poor husband had to hear - because I was still not - I mean, I'm sure I called you. I was so angry, because my blood boiled a little bit. That's the whole whoever's bigger has the power. And then for him to say “That didn't even hurt.” How do you know? 

Kristina

No, and you stand your ground.

Heather

You stand your ground. And what that models for your child is “Nope. We are not going to be regarded in that way. And we are going to walk out of here. Your mama is going to shut her mouth and ask for the assistance that it stays that way. And we're going to walk out of here and never come back.” And we didn't. 

Kristina  10:35

No, when we teach our children consent, one of the things that we did in our household, and I know you did as well, is “no” means “no.” “Stop,” means “stop.” The first time.

Heather  10:47

There's no code word. No, we don't need a code word. Shout out “Eggplant.” No. The code word is “stop” and “no.”And those need to be that way, because nobody else in the world maybe knows your code word, right? But “no” and “stop” mean the same thing. 

Kristina  11:04

And what we'll hear, and I lived this as well, is sometimes people use “no” and “stop” in a playful way, but they actually are wanting you to continue playful stuff. We don't want children growing up with that like, well, somebody can say, “no, no, no, no, stop, stop, stop.” 

Heather  11:25

And they're laughing and smiling, right?

Kristina  11:28

And that that's all good. But then in another circumstance, when somebody says “no, no, no, stop, stop, stop,” it's like “No, the first “No,” we're done. We're done. And then if you want to have me start tickling you again. You can say, “Do it again. Do it again.” But if you say “no,” or you say, “stop,” hands off. Over. Game over. Game over.

Heather  11:47

And we teach this in our preschool world all the time. It's, in fact, one of the things that when parents come in to volunteer, they will notice very quickly how highly the children are regarded, and that their voice has weight. “Yes, I see you're struggling with your zipper. Would you like me to help? Or can you get it on your own?” “I can do it, Miss Heather.” Then maybe for a minute. “Oh, will you get it started for me, and then I can get it? I can do it, Miss Heather.” “I believe you, sweetheart. I will happily get it started for you.” “Right. There.” “You got it now?” “Got it.” “Thank you.”

Kristina  12:25

You know, the hardest thing for me is like a snotty nose…

Heather  12:28

And then somebody just comes up from behind and wipes that nose, right? It’s “May I wipe your nose for you?” Right?

Kristina  12:36

Or “Would you like to wipe it yourself?” And they wipe it and it smears it all over their face. And maybe it got a little on you too. And they're learning. 

Heather  12:49

But asking for consent, because so often we just do those things to children without realizing the subliminal message of: I get to decide what's best for your body. I know you need your nose wiped. I know you need your hair brushed. I know you need your teeth brushed. They do need to brush their teeth. They hopefully do need to brush their hair, right? These are good, healthy hygiene habits. But if we can, when we're able, “May I help you? We're going to brush teeth.” That's not a question, right? Sometimes they just need to go brush their teeth. “Would you like help? Do you want to do it on your own?” Giving that autonomy is just a great way to teach consent. The tickling is a beautiful way to teach the hands off immediately when “stop” or “no” happens. Just practicing that, yeah.

Kristina  13:40

And some people will say, “Well, but I can tell if they're having fun or if they're not having fun.” But that can change in an instant. And I'm one of those people that, if I am, like, in a hysterical kind of, not funny, but hysterical kind of shock or something like that, I laugh. Now am I happy? Do I think it's funny? I do not. But that is what my body is doing.

Heather  14:05

And oftentimes for children, I think it's really important to say excessive laughter is anxiousness. Yes, I think that's really important to point out-

Kristina  14:14

So we don't always get the cues right. No. So teaching our children that “no” means “no,” “stop” means “stop,” and making sure that the children do that with each other.

Heather  14:27

And that “yes” can become “no” at any time. It's another thing we teach at school. Like, “Do you want to have a snowball fight?” We let kids throw snow and the rule is belly or below. You know, they're four. They don't have great aim. Sometimes we take one right to the face. “Did you like that?” “No.” “Yeah, tell them. “I didn't like it. You're supposed to aim for my belly.” “I was trying, but I hit your face. I'm sorry.” Do you want to play anymore? “No.” We're done, right? That's all. It takes one snowball to the face that was supposed to go to the belly or the knees or wherever.

Kristina  15:01

And it's important that we teach our children, not just individually but collectively, to listen to each other, right? “Your brother said, ‘stop.’ It's done.” And making sure that they're respecting that amongst each other builds their confidence, right?

Heather  15:16

And we don't necessarily, as parents, realize that. But it gives them the ability to stand a little taller, to put their shoulders back a bit.

Kristina  15:27

That's part of the beauty in teaching consent is that you hand them their power. And like you said, it doesn't mean that there aren't the times that you have to pick your child up for some reason, even if they don't want to. Or you're going to the doctor and they're going to need to have their ears examined, or they're going to get an injection, and they say “no,” and then you can't do it. You're not powerless as the adult. No. But every chance you have to model consent. Model consent. We want to do that.

Heather  15:58

Absolutely. Let's talk about affection. And how affection can get so tricky and so manipulative. And the way we show affections, the way we're expected to show affection. Yes, it's a slippery slope. 

Kristina  16:21

It is a slippery slope. If the child doesn't want to give a kiss to you, to their grandparent, to their great aunt, Susie, what else can we do? Right? It's okay. We don't hug. Have to.

Heather  16:36

We could do a high five, right? We could blow a kiss. I love the blow a kiss? 

Kristina  16:40

Yep,I do too, from afar, right? You can communicate affection so many different ways, but we don't demand it from children.

Heather  16:49

And we don't ask our children to go do the dirty work. Travis's grandmother was elderly and in a nursing home, and she had had a stroke. And so there would, I mean, she had had a stroke, half of her body was numb. So there would be some drool and things like that. We would go there to celebrate. She had false teeth, and she would laugh real hard. And sometimes the teeth would come out. And these things happen, right? Yeah, well, little Luke was teeny, like two maybe. And my husband said to Luke, “Go give Grandma a kiss.” And he clearly was not comfortable in this space. So he stuck real close to me and I’m like, “It's okay, baby,” comforting him throughout this visit that we were there the whole time. And Luke looked at him, and I looked at him, and I said to him, “You go give Grandma a kiss.” And Luke was like, I mean, he didn't say that, but he was like, I could feel him melt into me, like, and then we got in the car, and Travis was like, “I don't even know why I said that.” And I'm like, “I do. You wanted to send the child to do the job you didn't want to do.” 

Kristina  18:19

That's such a great story. It's such a great story because we-

Heather  18:23

He hadn't even thought it through. 

Kristina  18:27

But we do. That stuff slips out of our mouth before we even know what we're saying. It's like, “Oh, go give Grandpa a kiss,” you know? I mean, “Go give Grandpa and Grandma a kiss and a hug. They love you so much.” And I think they can love you so much, and you don't have to give them a kiss or a hug because we're telling you to.

Heather  18:45

And here's the thing, guys, when you do a bonehead thing like that, we all do, just do it beautifully, like my husband. It'd be like “that was so dumb,” because that we can agree on. If he was gonna come at me with “Why did you say that to me in that moment?” Whoa, that would have been a dissertation.

Kristina

So empowering our children in those moments, to be able to have their autonomy and to not do those things and to never force them to hug to kiss when they're uncomfortable, they have a sense. 

Heather

Luke had an “uh oh” feeling. Yep. And I couldn't unpack it with them in that moment what was happening. Because we had an audience. And there was a party happening, right? It was a family event. So it wasn't the time to be like, “What's going on didn't really matter.” No, like, I was just gonna comfort my child. That's what he needed. He was uncomfortable, right? So to respect that and not make him go do those things that there are plenty of other ways we can show our love to Grandma and we can get those needs met without making the child do that and then modeling like, “I'm sorry I asked you to do that. That wasn't okay.” 

Kristina  20:04

Yes, to model when a line has been crossed. Yes, like taking responsibility for it. “You know what? I shouldn't have done that.” 

Heather  20:11

I'm sure Luke doesn't remember that at all. I'm gonna ask him now. I'm gonna go home and ask him. But what kids are more likely to remember is that you apologized to them. Like he may remember his dad saying to him, “That was kind of a ding dong thing to do. I'm really sorry about that. I should have went and kissed Grandma. I'm not sure why I thought you should do that.”

Kristina  20:35

So like we'd said, affection and love can be shown in lots of different ways. Training not just us as their parents, but also others, to say, “ Oh, Oma, do you want to ask Grace if she would like a hug or a high five goodbye?” And then instead of saying, you know, “Come over here and give me a kiss,” giving the prompt, right? So I don't care if the child is two, three, ten, twenty, we don't demand affection be shown in a certain way. It's not respectful.

Heather  21:09

Oh, and it's so tricky, because all those feelings get wound into it. 

Kristina  21:13

I know. And when my daughter is upset, all I want to do, like every cell in my body just wants to hold her. And she doesn't want to be held. 

Heather  21:24

There's such a thing to that stage. It's so true. And what I have found with my kids, my boys in particular, it's the late night and I'm just like…to be there when they get home. It's like they're an open book at 11:30 and after, which is interesting, because I'm like a closed book, like, I just want to go night, night. So there's a phase where you just kind of get out the scotch tape and tape your eyelids up. And you do that because that's where your kids need you to be in that moment. The other thing is getting them distracted and not going in to talk about something, right? But maybe baking or cooking or folding laundry. I read something that I thought was really beautiful the other day, and it was a grown woman reflecting on how her mother had never pressured her to talk about something, but could sense that something was awry, which we can so often as parents like I'm not sure what it is, but something is off there. And she would bring the laundry in and just sit at her daughter's bed and start folding the laundry. And they would just be talking about the day, and before you know it, right, because the mom is focused on the laundry, but there's all this conversation happening between the two of them. All of a sudden, the daughter is opening up. She remembered her mother the laundry would be completely folded and back in the basket, and she'd dump it back out and start refolding it again. It's really a beautiful picture of what parenting truly is.

Kristina  22:56

Yeah, I used to have a puzzle out in my office. And when I met with children, adolescents, we would sit on the floor and it was on a coffee table and not have to make eye contact. I mean, if they were fine with it, that's great. But if they weren't, then we could focus on the puzzle. You didn't actually put in pieces. I mean, maybe you did, if you were super, really good at it, but we could talk and have the puzzle to break the intensity.

Heather  23:25

That was the whole point from this daughter. She's like “My mom always had time.” And she would focus on that laundry because she knew I couldn't just sit and be directly eye to eyeball with her. So she would just keep folding the same basket of laundry, three, four, however many times it took?

Kristina  23:44

Yep. Something that we can do as parents when we're in the trenches, teaching consent to our children and to the people that are in our child's life is we can assess the books that we have, the movies that are in our home, the media that we allow to be seen or streamed and do a little consciousness raising. Does that book model respect and bodily autonomy and consent, or does it not? I do think it's a good idea to read books that your adolescents are reading, and to watch what they're watching, and to maybe watch with them.

Heather  24:16

They have so much access. They can get it when we're there, when we're not there. Sometimes it's just best to embrace it together. Unless it's, you know, something that's completely against your values, then don't do that. I think it's important that even in the movies that we're watching, what are we're exposing our children to, that we really look at the message that's there. How are the people dressed? How do they regard one another, even like in the music I listen to - My daughter listens to country music. And I'm like, “Listen. Not everything is about loss of love, drinking and shake it, Country Girl, shake it for me.” Not everything is about that. You don't have to be a country girl shaking it for anybody. It's not just about breakups and drinking, because sometimes it can feel like that. And I just sometimes want to listen to music that doesn't say all of those things.

Kristina  25:12

We don't want to send these mixed messages, no. 

Heather  25:17

And what I say to my kids all the time is “What you take in matters. Clear eyes, full heart. Garbage in, garbage out. Yep, that's how it works.”

Kristina  25:27

And if you are watching something with your child or reading something with your child, and it takes a turn down a pathway you didn't want to go, have a conversation about them. You can use those as teachable moments and not have to be like my mom. She'd do this. “Tsk.” Yeah, but it was a “tsk” there was a bad word or something like that. Darn it, if I don't do the same. So anyway, you can have a conversation. Grace and I just had one yesterday on language, and that I'm comfortable with a lot of language, but that she just needed to tone a little of it down a little bit, because it was like “Sweet freedom. I can drop these bombs, and mom's okay with it.” Well, to a certain extent. And then I have to, especially if I hear it like in music or in- we were watching some theater, and it was like, “Ooh, I think she'd be on Broadway, and I was like, “well, they're gonna have to clean up their language.”

Heather  26:32

And that goes back to your village and the beauty of grandparents. I would say to my kids, “What if your Oma heard you say that? Yeah, you better “check yourself before you wreck yourself.”

Kristina  26:49

So I mentioned earlier about role playing and Grace, and I would do that role playing that's a really great thing to do, especially if you have a child who doesn't always hear or understand the “no.” Their impulse or their desire to interact with another individual, it takes them over.

Heather  27:08

And sometimes we work with kids that maybe we don't know have ADHD, right? Because we work with little little ones, but I know I have a child with ADHD. You have a child with ADHD. And so how do we capture them? What I learned worked well for my son was to say his name. And so if he was having an interaction with Luke or with Ava or whomever, to be able to say “Zachary,” which I don't call him Zachary hardly ever, but it pulled him into “Oh.” You know, or even Zack, whatever it might be. But to say their name. And you might have to say it two or three times, because, again, it's not that he's trying to not hear me. It's that he doesn't have that focus. And so there is a limitation there. But that would get him to focus. And then he could stop. And then we could talk about it. 

Kristina  27:59

I was just gonna say, we do it at school too, where, you know, there's a child that, when they get frustrated, they maybe hit or they bite. And so we'll do something where we'll say, “Okay, so we're gonna build a tower, and then I'm going to knock it down, and we're gonna practice with you saying, ‘Oh, nuts.’ Good thing. We can build it again, right? And not hitting me. So we're going to role play it. I'm going to tell you exactly what I'm going to do. We're building it. We're building it. Oh, it's so tall. And then remember, I'm going to knock it down. And practicing that so that they have the opportunity to practice the skill when they have been set up and supported in building that skill.

Heather  28:43

Yeah, because they can't possibly do it in their natural environment if they haven't practiced that outside in a safe place with someone who cares for them. And that's scaffolded skill building, right? 

Kristina  28:54

And that's especially important for the kids who struggle with impulse control,

Heather  29:00

Impulse to action. They have no pause. Impulse, action, right?

Kristina  29:03

And they may have different sensory needs. So, you know, we've talked about the kids who like move through groups and the kind of like bumper cars bounce off. They're bouncing off because they like more sensory input or have less awareness of their body and space. Practice, role play, help them build the skill outside of the actual moments. Then when the moment happens, because inevitably it will. Two children are playing. The blocks get knocked over. The child gets angry and they push or they bite or they punch. We teach our kids to say, “Stop. I don't like it when you do that. Next time...” Thankfully, at our preschools, we have the beauty of having three teachers in each classroom. So three teachers, eighteen kids, which allows us to have more supervision to when something like that happens. Go over and say, “Oh, I heard him say he didn't like it.” Or to say, “Did you like it when he did that?” And empower the child to say, “I didn't.” “Then tell him.” 

Heather  30:10

And they get really good at it, once they're empowered, because it's their developmental stage, right? We give them the script. We do that teaching and the beginning of the school year. But now, for the most part, we're at the place in the school year where we're three, four months in, and they're doing this on their own. They want to show initiative, they want to lead, and so they're able to communicate those things back and forth. And we have a philosophy, right? We're nature-based, we're play-based, we're child-led. And within our nature-based, play-based philosophy, we believe in risky play for children, because we know there are so many benefits. One of the things that kids can engage in with supervision. We're always supervising them in rough play, right? Where we know that that stimulates their brain. We know for some kids, they're going to focus better if they have that rough-play.The trick in why so many people move away from rough play is because the consent isn't honored, that the yes, when it becomes a no, isn't honored. So if we have children engaging in rough play, number one, you have to ask, “Do you want to play rough? Do you want to play rough?” It might be, “Do you want to tackle?” Do you want to whatever it might be, right? And there's a group of kids that all give consent, and then there's a teacher or myself right there, and we're watching when this happens, and we teach kids, check in. “Do they still want to play?” “Yes, check in. Do they still want to play?” And you teach them look at their face. “Do they look like they're having fun? Look at her face. Check in if you're not sure.” And that face is telling you and you're not sure, ask, “Is this still good? Do you still want to play?” And if they say “yes,” and sometimes I think there's no way, and they're like, “yeah.” And so we don't let it get dangerous, because we're the grown up, right? 

Kristina  32:09

Always flat hands and you don't cover her faces. 

Heather  32:11

And so we don't let it get dangerous, right? But it's all of that intentional teaching that the consent just becomes normalized. And then if the answer is “No, I don't want to play anymore.” “Oh, what did you hear them say?” “They don't want to play anymore.” Okay. And they move on. “Do you want to play?” “Yeah, I want to play now.” And we can start again.

Kristina  32:33

So for the children that have a harder time holding their impulses or hearing the “no,” because it doesn't even translate well.

Heather  32:47

And what I will often say to kids is, it's not a “no” to being your friend. It's a “no” to this play right now. They want to be your friend, because sometimes it feels like rejection. It's not a rejection. It's just saying, “Oh, I'm done playing rough now.”

Kristina  33:03

Okay, as we wrap up talking about consent, there's one more thing I want to talk about, and that is, as adults, we shouldn't be making fun of children's relationships.

Heather  33:13

And always trying to put adult cognitions on them. “Are you a couple? Are you guys going to get married?” This was a thing for my Luke and our neighbor, who were three weeks apart, and they were raised on the same sweet little private drives. They played together like brother and sister growing up. And people would often say, “Oh, I can't wait to see if they date. I can't wait to see if they...do you think they'll get married?” I'm like, “They're like, four, right? Five? Like, can we just let them be children? 

Kristina  33:48

Like, get- why are you even thinking about this. Yeah, or saying to little ones that are friends, like, “Oh, is that your boyfriend?” “Ooh, that's your girlfriend.” So here's the thing, if we make fun of children, first of all, like, what is that even about?

Heather  34:04

Well, they just see them as friends, right? Playmates, and that's it.

Kristina  34:08

But why? As adults, we do that to children in their relationships? So here's the thing, if we do that, if we make fun of them in their relationships, especially involving those types of relationships-

Heather  34:20

I don't even know if it's coming from a make fun place or if it's just like, “I'm trying to relate?”

Kristina  34:25

Right. I don't, I don't think it's necessarily from a make fun place. But when you're talking like, these are four year olds. You’re being ridiculous. When you do that, make those comments and do it in a, you know, like, “Ooh” kind of a way. Guess what? They're not going to talk to you about their relationships when they're a little older. And their relationships are maybe a little more complicated. It creates this dynamic of: I'm actually going to be mocked by that right? Subconsciously you've created a space that's not safe anymore. So just don't do it. Don't talk about who they're gonna marry when they're four. You don't need to talk about, like, “Ooh, you spent an awful lot of time with him. Is he your boyfriend? Do you think he's cute?” Like, eww. No. They really like to build Lego together. So yeah, if we can stop doing that and stop kind of imposing on children these adult relationship or adult cognitions, we're going to be in a much better place,

Heather  35:24

In just the world in general, if we can teach consent in our homes, and then our children go out and they know how to ask consent, they know how to give consent. They expect to be regarded in that way? It's impactful. They know way healthier world. 

Kristina  35:45

They know that “no” means “no” and “stop” means “stop.” And when they have asserted themselves, if that's not honored and respected, there's a problem. Because that's not the way that they've been raised. 

Heather  35:59

And if it was a “yes,” it can become a “no” at any time. And it gets respected.

Kristina  36:07

Thank you so much for joining us for Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood. I'm Kristina.

Heather  36:13

And I'm Heather. And we're so grateful to join you on your parenting journey.

Kristina  36:18

Until next time… 

Heather and Kristina

See you on the trails!

Kristina

The Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood podcast is brought to you by the ODC Network in Holland, Michigan. It is produced by Jen Plante Johnson, recorded and edited by Dave Purnell, with original theme music by Dave Purnell. 

Heather  36:35

The ODC Network is a non-profit organization that strives to advance outdoor education and conservation in West Michigan.

Kristina  36:43

Since 2000, the ODC Network has served over a million people through hands on outdoor learning experiences and conserved thousands of acres of native habitat through restoration and preservation projects.

Heather  36:56

The ODC Network's vision is building a better community by connecting people land and nature. To learn more and get involved go to www.ODCNetwork.org.