Three Years Till We're All Replaced?

What happens when your listener’s device can generate a personalized podcast on command—your voice, their preferences, zero friction? We dig into a bold forecast from Joe Pulizzi and use it as a springboard to map what creators must do now to stay essential. The headline: you have time, but not to waste. The next three years will reward human connection, not just output.

We break down why live shows build a moat AI can’t cross: people show up to participate, not just consume. That interaction turns casual listeners into community, and community into staying power. We also get real about costs. AI features rarely come free; they come with higher monthly bills and massive energy needs. From new data centers to rising rates, we unpack how an “AI bubble” could reshape tools and pricing—and why consolidation doesn’t mean the end, just a different landscape.

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Conent Inc Episode
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AI Goes to College
www.aigoestocollege.com

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Transcript

Coffee, Co-Hosts, And Cold Opens

Dave Jackson 0:14

Ask the Podcast Coach for October 25th, 2025.

Announcer Dude 0:18

Let's get ready to podcast.

Dave Jackson 0:22

There it is. It's that music that means it's Saturday morning. It's time for Ask the Podcast Coach, where you get your podcast questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from the School of Podcasting.com, and joining me right over there is the one and only Jim Collison from theAveregeguy.tv. Jim, how's it going, buddy? Greetings, Dave. Happy Saturday morning to you.

Jim Collison 0:43

Happy uh Halloween Eve. Halloween. Halloween is an Eve. Happy Halloween. We're getting close, right? It's not quite there, but we're getting close, right? Halloween is on its way. It does it feel like every year it's a longer road to Halloween. Like well, because we start celebrating it. Yeah. That's basically it. Halloween. All of a sudden, Halloween. What are those shops that open up?

Dave Jackson 1:07

Spirit Halloween.

Announcer Dude 1:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson 1:10

It's like, oh, look, the old Dick Sporting Goods is now a Halloween shop.

Jim Collison 1:14

It's Walden's books is now Spirit Halloween. It's Waldens. That's it.

Podcast Branding.co

Based On a True Story Podcast

Dave Jackson 1:22

Borders, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh man. Yeah, I went to I went to a mall this week just because I haven't mall. You still have those? And I was laughing because I was thinking of all the things that aren't there anymore. And that was one of them. Bookstores. It's a lot of clothes shops. Yeah. You know, and hot topic and you know, all that things. But mall. It's like Amazon except real, right? Exactly. And you know, the one thing you could get there was that's it. Nice hot coffee there. And I'm gonna laugh because I don't think I rewound our thing. If I click there, yep, I gotta go back. Oh, Dave didn't do his morning prep. Uh yeah. What do we get? It is. Uh that coffee pour is brought to you by our good friend Mark over at podcastbranding.co. Uh, I am looking forward to, I just emailed him yesterday of my final thoughts on the thing he's working for for me. And uh, so I'm not just a customer, I'm a repeat customer. Why? Because he does really good work. He makes you look pretty, he makes you look professional, he makes that first impression that you're trying to make. And this could be artwork, it could be a website, it could be a PDF that you're handing out, anything that you want to look good. There's really only one place to go, and that's podcastbranding.co. Mark's been an award-winning graphic artist forever. Basically, he's been doing this. And look, let him bring the marketing side. You just bring your show, let him know kind of the vibe of the show, and he will go on from there. You're gonna get personalized attention that you're not gonna get from some dude on Fiverr, and it's just gonna make you look amazing. So, again, there's only one place to go, podcastbranding.co. And uh tell him Dave and Jim said you, and then let me know what he designed for you. I want to see it.

Jim Collison 3:15

I bet it'll be good.

Dave Jackson 3:17

Yeah.

Sponsor Shoutouts And Live Stream Setup

Jim Collison 3:17

Big thanks to our big thanks to our good friend Dan Lefebvre over there, based on a true story, based on a true storypodcast.com. You know, we're still rocking the mug. I mean, I I am amazed. He must we've been doing this for a couple years, right? Here, I'll put throw the mug back up there. There we go. We've been doing the mug for a couple years. Dan, thanks for getting that made. Also, listen, for Dan's segment, you know, he also sent me a sweet little coaster away back here. Oh, wait, hold on. You you oh, okay, yeah. You too could have, you can see I'm using it. Like it's it's not like it's new. I use it on the desk here. You too can be creative, like Dan. If you want to check out what he's doing, check it out today, based on a true story, based on a true storypodcast.com. If you missed it, Project Blue Book. Very interesting interview. If you're if you're into that, you should go out there and listen to it. Check it out today, Dan. Thanks for your sponsorship. See, when I hear blue book, I just think of the car thing. Is is that what that's about? The show in the 70s, Project Blue Book, don't you? The the the TV series, they had a TV series. It's back when the government would not, you know, say there's no they would say, Oh no, there's no UFOs. Yeah, no, no, no. Then there was a government thing and it was all mystery and blah blah blah blah. If you if you were into that. So uh in Dan's series, it the I think Netflix did a series on this bringing it back. So they're talking about that. So cool stuff if you like sci-fi, or that's not really sci-fi. That's more what is that? That's like Bigfoot UFOs. What do we call that genre? There's a genre like that of in podcasting, right? Of all the uh paranormal paranormal, yeah. Would that be that's kind of more ghosty stuff than I was thought. I was thinking Bigfoot and Big Fish. It's all in big shoes. I'm sitting up. Uh uh life's a little bit sure. Not sure I'm gonna be able to do it the whole show, but I'm I was gonna give it a try. I mean, I'm sweating right now from from the effort it takes to sit up, but it's getting better. So that's right. It's not over, but it's getting better.

Dave Jackson 5:19

Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. We're finding out here. I clicked on the wrong thing. There we go. Is wait, where did the one here we go? YouTube isn't showing. I keep going to click, and my mouse has its a mind of its own. YouTube isn't showing names this morning, it's showing handles.

Jim Collison 5:35

Oh, it is showing handles in the chat. So the names in the chat, just to be clear, names in the chat showing handles and not I don't think it's you certainly you didn't change anything, Dave. No, I don't I don't think it's anything we changed. Very strange.

Joe Pulizzi’s Three-Year AI Warning

Dave Jackson 5:50

Well should I uh uh I'm gonna play a clip just because it made me wet my pants. Oh this is uh no, there's for at your age, there's things for that, Dave. This show is brought to you by Depends. Podcast for your next podcast marathon, you know, and we are middle-aged, I do have to you know get up and pee every 15 minutes. So yeah. I had that I had that taken care of, by the way. So you you you can too. You can too. The uh this is from Joe Pulitzi, who his show is called Content Inc. You can find it at contentink.io. He also he's an author of the same book, Content Inc. His new book is Burn the Playbook. He's a guy I I look to. He he runs the content creator expo in Cleveland, uh, used to run content marketing world. So when Joe says, well, first of all, uh he has a great opening hook. Let's check this out.

Joe Pulizzi 6:47

I spent this week at MAKON in Cleveland surrounded by some of the smartest people in AI and marketing. And it was one of those rare times where every conversation feels like a glimpse into the future. And here's what I heard.

Dave Jackson 7:01

Okay. So right there, you're like, well, okay, wait, the smartest people, they said something. I I thought that was a good hook. And here's what he heard.

Joe Pulizzi 7:10

Again and again. Creators have about three years. Three years before the way content is created, delivered, and consumed changes so dramatically that it could upend the entire creator business model. Right now, you and I create content. We build audiences, we nurture trust. People come to us because they like our voice, our perspective, our consistency. But the experts I spoke with believe that soon, soon and very soon, devices will do this for people. Now imagine this. Your phone or glasses or car doesn't just find content, it creates it on demand, personalized, synthetic, but perfectly tailored to your needs and preferences. Instead of asking, what podcast should I listen to? Your device just serves you one, written, written, voiced, and optimized just for you. Spooky.

Dave Jackson 8:07

We'll we'll stop it there. And so his his answer to this was in the next three years, make as many human connections as possible. Like lean into being human, do the stuff that AI can't do, because you know, he just made it sound like he could go, give me a five-minute podcast about the latest news in Akron, and it'll like, here you go.

Human Connection Vs. Synthetic Content

Jim Collison 8:32

Well, that it could that actually could be very beneficial, right? That kind of content where you're thinking about like tell me the lit what's going on. I've been doing this with the AI recently, where I, as I'm driving home, I say, hey, give me a recap of the news for today. And it starts going through it, and then I can start asking it questions about news. That actually could be really, really helpful. I mean, imagine the the ability to get deeper and more information quicker. But that's different, right? That's not that's like in my mind, that's like local disposable content. And yes, we have folks doing the news, right? I'm sorry, but AI may take that part over. Right. But the other kind of like the other kind of content, like the you know, we we I I think we were talking about the paranormal at the beginning of the show, you know, paranormal or the the the the true crime or some of those kinds of things that are creative. I I don't I'm not sure it it's there with AI. I'm not I'm just not sure it's there, right? And so I'd agree and disagree with that statement that I think, yeah, three years from now, there's gonna be AI is gonna take some of these spaces. But Dave, I I don't know. Like the our our chat room comes on Saturday mornings when we're live because they're they want to influence the conversation, they're interested in our lives. They're you know, I sat up and Stephanie Graham in chat was like, Hey Jim, you're sitting up, you must be feeling better. That's a hit human interaction you don't get with AI, you know? It just doesn't happen. So what what makes us human, right, is that we're not perfect and that we don't get it right all the time, and that we don't that we make mistakes, right? Yeah, that that's part of the human experience. So I'm not sure I wouldn't I wouldn't go too gloom and doom. I don't know, Dave. What what are your thoughts?

Dave Jackson 10:16

Well, it it's just one of those things where it's kind of like I'm with you. I I think things are going to change over the next like three years. Number one, I think people are going to finally figure out that when they go, I wish this would do this automatically, that what you're really doing is saying, can you please change my bill uh to about $20 more a month? Because everything that's added AI, I just I use a tool called Tela and I love it. And it does all sorts of stuff, but they added AI to it, and guess what? It's going up about 20 bucks a month if you want all the bells and whistles. Like AI is not cheap. And I keep hearing, and I don't know how much of it is true, that just the power it takes, the electricity it takes to run all these data centers, is gonna come back to where like we can't sustain that. I don't know how realistic that is.

Power, Data Centers, And The AI Bubble

Jim Collison 11:13

Let's let's be clear. Like, I mean, certainly AI is taking up a lot of power today. Yeah, the big worry is the future power. As they start talking about there's all this, I don't know if you've seen there's this kind of like this I shouldn't say it. No, I'm not gonna say it. There's this circle of of uh of companies, you know, you think about OpenAI and Microsoft and Google and Oracle and right, and they're all NVIDIA, they're all buying from each other, they're all say, hey, if you give me a hundred thousand a hundred million dollars, I will guarantee you you can buy our chips at a nickel, you know, and then we'll send them to you, and and we'll guarantee you get this right. So they're looking at all that projected. If you put all the contracts together, I mean, you can't build these data, it takes it takes years to build these data centers in a lot of regards, right? So there's a lot of promise, and as soon as they're looking forward, they're starting to like, oh my gosh, like we don't we don't have the power infrastructure to be able to handle this. And we don't. Many of these data centers are building their own power, you know, they're they're they're bringing in portable equipment and and running, you know, running portable power centers to make these these things kind of work. So today, sustainable, I mean, it's certainly using a lot of power, but as they look to the future, the thing I'm worried about in this is the bubble it's creating because yes, it's twenty dollars, but not enough people are paying twenty dollars to make this worth it, right? Yeah, and I think this is the early dot-com. If you were around, you and I were around in 2000 when they were laying fiber cable all around the world, three three level three, if you remember that name, right? All this cable, and they were spending billions in they all then we call it the dot-com bubble, right? Yeah, we're in friends, we're in the AI bubble, and I don't know when it's gonna burst, but there's I mean, it it has to, it's not sustainable. This that you can't do you can't do what we're doing. The math doesn't work, right? So there's gonna be, I mean, AI is gonna come to it. Doesn't mean AI is gonna go away. When the dot-com bubble burst in 2000, the internet didn't go away, right? It just took us some time to recover, you know, from it. Right. And so there's gonna be an AI bubble burst. It'll be interesting to see what happens when all this stuff that they're giving away for free or very cheap becomes more expensive or not available, right? That that'll be interesting when that bubble bursts, it will be interesting. So I think we've got three years is I like that statement of three years.

Dave Jackson 13:50

Yeah.

Jim Collison 13:51

The next three years, something happens, I think, in the next three years for sure, around this. And it could, it could be really, really interesting.

Dave Jackson 13:58

Yeah, Chris says people have more options, including AI built things, like Joe speaks of, but it's more noise. People will make choices, some will choose human connection, you know. Craig from AI Goes to College says Meta is building a huge data center near me, which is Louisiana. They're also building a power plant. And then Randy says they're building a couple data centers in rural West Virginia. The electricity provider has more than doubled our rates in response to that. Well, that's not fair.

Jim Collison 14:28

Uh well, but friends, here's what's to watch out for. Like, what always happens on the backside of a bubble, right? When it bursts, things get super cheap. So, yes, there's a lot of power consumption. They're gonna ramp up these power, you know, they're they're gonna build and bring online new new power facilities. When this does burst and there's no all of a sudden there's no demand for AI and all this stuff backs out and everybody runs away from it, you know, all this money walks away. We're gonna have an abundance of power. Yeah, that's that capability. And our electricity will be very cheap. Yeah, that's true. It could, could. I mean, that's that's one thing that could happen, right? Yeah, so it could could get interesting for sure.

Dave Jackson 15:09

That would rely on CEOs not being, you know, greedy bastards, which usually doesn't. Get your crypto mining stuff ready to go. You might want to be ready. Jeff C says, yeah, I read this in Joe's newsletter. I think live shows like this is where people will run because of the human connection. That's a good point. I had I saw somebody in Reddit today that said, Does doing a live show grow your show? And I actually did an episode on this on the Your Podcast Consultant. I think what it does is it gives you instant connection with your audience. I mean, we've got 32 people in the chat room right now, which is amazing. I mean, that's that's one and a half classrooms in my book. I remember when I had 20 people in a class, I was like, oh, I hope they're well behaved. That's where things start to get out of hand. And so it's gonna be, you know, the the live thing, you get that instant connection. It's I know a lot of people think, oh, it's great because when you're done, you're done. No editing. And I'm like, okay, but let's say that's true. I've been up since 8:30 getting topics and stuff. So the time I spent editing, I now spent preparing because it's live. And so I I don't know. And you know, as much as we have 32 people here, that's you know, it's a a small fraction of the people that listen later. So I don't, in terms of growing your show, because I don't, I mean, do you watch anything live, Jim, on TV besides sports? Sports, but yeah, that's about it. Even that I don't. I learned I can wait two hours till the football game is over, and I can you you end up with this cool little rhythm where it's like they snap the ball, they throw it. He the minute the guy gets tackled, it's two clicks to the right on my remote till he snaps the ball again. So you can actually just watch the game and then you skip all the commercials. You can blow through a football game really quick. And I was like, well, there you go. If I can watch, instead of it being two hours, it's now 45 minutes. I'm like, I'm never watching another live football game. Now, if it's with a bunch of people, the football game is the background noise. I'm really there for the people and the catch up with my brother and whatever else is going on.

Jim Collison 17:24

But uh I actually watch more sports on YouTube after the fact where it's the curated, these are the best plays. Here's the whole program. You here's a whole three-hour football game in 20 minutes, right? I kind of watch those. And that actually, that's an application where AI could do really well of give it three hours of a football game, say remove all the commercials and just give me the, you know, give me the highlight place. Matthew out there said, nah, uh, no one's abandoning AI. Uh Matthew, don't don't hear me as saying we're abandoning or anyone's abandoning. No. The ecosystem is not sustainable. And the demand for it is not as high as they're anticipating. Yes, we're using it, and it's gonna stay, it's here to stay, and we're gonna, it's gonna continue to be a tool, much like the internet was, you know, in in 2000. What I'm saying is the ecosystem as it's being run and built today, it's an arms race, and none of those, that's just not fiscally or or yeah, fiscally sustainable. And there will come a point in time when they consolidate down, and then it's not us who pull out, it's gonna be these AI organizations that have to pull back because their financials won't work. Yeah, they can talk these big stories now, but eventually venture capital will be like, no, I don't think so. You know, the what could lead to this? Here's what's scary, Dave. So I just saw the other day one of the I think it was OpenAI or one of them, it committed, you know, billions of dollars to this, you know, multi-billions of dollars to this initiative. And it had it was backed by companies like Chase and JP Morgan and Bank of America, right? This is the banks now getting involved in the big banks now getting involved in giant speculative things. Okay, let's remember back to the last time the banks got involved in a big speculative lending. Oh, it was 2007. What happened in 2007, eight, and nine, right? It's it it, you know, when the when the markets begin to pull back in, right? Because eventually this thing's got to make money. There has to, and it's to be honest, there's not enough money on the planet to pay for this thing right now, right? And so, like, when they start to pull in, it's gonna get it'll get interesting as it begins to implode exactly what happens, who stays. It'll it will stay, a version of it will stay. Don't get me wrong, it's not it's not going away, right? The internet didn't go away, but it's gonna certainly change. And it's uh accessibility to it, accessibility, yeah, accessibility to it will change as well. So we've got it, it's interesting times. These are if you missed the dot com bubble, and if you miss the financial crisis of 2008 and you want to see what a real crisis looks like, just wait till the AI bubble pops and and watch the what do they say, watch the rats flee from the ship. Right? It's good, it's gonna be super interesting. I I think this is gonna be it'll stay, it's here to stay, and there's some really great stuff about it, but yeah, it's gonna look different when it does.

Live Shows, Replays, And Community

Dave Jackson 20:23

Yeah, the uh Ralph says you nailed it. The problem is nobody watches live, but I think they see the replay is being done live and it it brings you the credibility. Yeah, I know I was listening to Adam Curry on uh No Agenda, and he was talking about how his wife watches Megan Kelly, and he goes, Oh, so what do you like what app do you use to to consume her show? And she goes, Oh, I just watched the clips on YouTube. And so that's another one where even that it's time shifted, it's not live, but now people aren't consuming the whole show, they're just getting the best parts uh as shorts. I'm not sure shorts is a great strategy unless because I know the the payment criteria on shorts is different than long stuff on YouTube. But if you want, in theory, giant quotation marks, more views, because remember, a view on a short is that's it, that's a view. There you go. Congratulations. That four milliseconds is now a view. But I just wonder about that strategy. On one hand, I because I think shorts are great for branding and getting your brand out there. But I'm I'm wondering now, in terms of versus live versus you know, watching the whole show. Now we have people that feel they are consuming the whole show. Like she said, oh yeah, I I I I you know, I'm a fan of her show. I watch it all the time. And she wasn't. She was watching a couple shorts from uh, you know, hour and a half show. And I was like, well, that's interesting. To you know, oh I'm yeah, I I I I consume her kind. Well, you're consuming the shorts. So that's it's interesting. Jeff, Jeff has talked about this. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Jeff has a great point. He says live shows build community. Sure, there are 30 people here watching now, but most show up each week. Hard to put an ROI on that. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks, Jeff. Go ahead, Jim.

Jim Collison 22:22

Yeah, I don't I don't think you ignore the shorts. They're they're brand building, right? They you can you can get them out there. It's that's one of those things as your brand is big and gets bigger. The more you do of those, the more they help, right? Because you're everywhere. That's the point of brand, is to be everywhere, right? To be in be in the face of people with them seeing you all the time to a point that doesn't we know brand doesn't last forever. I mean, Taylor Swift at some point will not be popular. There will be a moment where her popularity wanes, right? Let's just say, let's just say that, right? But that's the point of brand. So I I don't think the the short, you know, the making shorts, getting them out there, doing them well, I don't think that's a bad idea. Just know what it's for, right? It's a branding exercise. Get it out there, do more, get well. Now, to only do that and expect it to be a driver back, okay. That may be a too much of an expectation. Depends on your content, to be 100%, you know, honest. If you've got great short content that's engaging, who knows where it could go with what you're I watch this. Her name is Brooke. Oh, I can't remember her last name. She shows up in my feed all the time. She does these shorts where she takes a comedy skit, Nate Borgatszy or whatever, and she she she uh lip synks it and she does it from different angles and you know, different facial expressions. She's wearing different outfits while she's playing the characters of these jokes, of these skits kind of thing. It's very engaging. She does a great job, and it's it's one of those kinds of things you're like, okay. Now, Brooke, I don't know how I mean she's gonna have to make money off advertising because there's it's not like she's gonna take it on the road. It's not like she's making a long form podcast, you know. But Brooke does a nice job on the short side of things. Certainly it's engaged me, and I watch them sometimes. I like to watch just to see the creativity that she makes with these, you know, taking taking some existing content and making it that way. So I think there can be some value in it. I just wouldn't I wouldn't say it's the only thing you should do for sure.

Shorts, Long Form, And Strategy

Dave Jackson 24:28

Yeah, it's uh it's tricky. I know the lead singer from Smashing Pumpkins, Billy Corgan, I think is his last name, and what he does is he puts out the long video and it's out for about a week. So at that point, it's gone to your core listeners. If it's gonna go outside of your core, you know, subscribers, it'll do that. So he's given it a chance to go viral, and then after that, he will put out shorts of that. So I think that's kind of interesting. And Stephanie says, Yeah, you'll see people through comments how watching a clip is out of context. Yeah, if they only get part of the story, they kind of miss that. Ralph had a question. He says, uh, my new show, Truth Unveiled with Ralph, is growing quick on YouTube, up to 40,000 subs. Nice, and just hit 235,000 watches to my last short. Again, I'm a big fan of this. Go look and see how far people are watching or listening. Question is what can I do to reach monetization quicker?

Jim Collison 25:30

Well, more and more and better shorts, right? Keep keep that going. And then it has to listen, it has to drive the short has to drive links back to a monetization strategy. So what what do you have to sell? Or what if they're what do you have on your show that will watch that will create ad cont ad revenue for you? Just doesn't magically happen. I mean, Ralph, I know you know that. So you've got so what's driving to the revenue stream? I mean, you can have the greatest brand in the world.

Dave Jackson 26:01

If you don't have anything to sell, yeah, I what do you what are you selling? I mean, YouTube monetization, I mean, I'm my channel's monetized. I forget how long it took, and I honestly don't care because I'm making maybe five dollars CPM. You know, it takes months for me to get a check from Google. You don't have enough volume, do you fix the problem? That's where you need, and it's that's where you not only need the followers, but if you go to any popular channel and see, you'll see where they have like 3.2 million, and then they have you know 987 views. I'm like, wait a minute, there's three million people followed the show, but only 900 of them have come back to watch. And you're like, okay, well, when you're making five dollar CPM, that three million, you know, subscriber podcaster just made five bucks. I'm like, so I've never looked at YouTube as like, oh, this is where I'm gonna really make the money. It's it's for Ralph, if it was me, I would like, oh, by the way, if you need an accountant, you know, come hire me kind of thing, or hire me for a business coach or whatever it is you're trying to do. That will always make more money than any kind of advertising. So unless you're a hyper nicho.

Jim Collison 27:20

He says in chat, he says the show is selling faith. Okay, so you're selling an idea, right? Or you're selling you want, you're trying to sell influence, right? You're trying to be influential, have more people follow you so that you what you say they do, right? That's basically what influencing is, right? So, yeah, so that the you you've got to then continue. If that's the product that you're selling, you've got to make it available to a wide enough audience that they want to listen, they want to follow you. You have to be in a spot where they in and so you know how you you've got to either do that through paid advertising or you've got to get them to do it for you, or or you've got to get an in another influencer to help you along with it, right? Those are the kinds of things that you have to do.

Dave Jackson 28:07

Or put a link in your in the the first link of your description should be to buy me a coffee. Because I I don't think you have the little dollar sign until you're monetized. And actually, buy me a coffee would be a better link because they take a much smaller percentage than YouTube does. YouTube takes, I want to say 30%, it's a lot compared to everybody else. So that would be and then ask for it. Like, hey, if you found this show valuable, if if this helped uplift you or whatever, you gotta ask for it then. Just it's just a matter of, you know, you could ask for email addresses and then pick somebody to give away a book, that'll grow your email list, which will then you can then turn around and you know try to monetize that, which is aside from well, it's just a marketing arm of sell your own stuff. When you have your own stuff, that's the most profitable. And the email list is the thing that that really drives that. So it's kind of tricky.

Jim Collison 29:12

Yeah, and I I'd be a little hesitant. Like people ascribe value to that which they paid for it, right? So the if they paid ten dollars for something or a hundred, the course it seems more valuable to them. I I would, you know, I think sometimes we give it away for free. It's everything's free, free, free, free. I'm not sure that's real engagement, right? I I I think we there needs to be some kind of value built in to I mean, and I value my Patreon subscribers uh personally more because they commit every single month to, you know, to to help with or they see value in the podcast so they give back. So I'm not sure that's a great model either. I mean, it's yeah, it's really hustling all of them, right, Dave. I mean, it's really finding it's doing them all and working super hard and maybe failing a bunch. And then you if you get lucky and the the gods provide, then all of a sudden, you know, you may you may go where you want to go. You may not. May it may happen ten years from now.

Dave Jackson 30:13

The I think. Think the best kind of slant on this is I heard about a podcaster that was you could get his book by or yeah, there was oh how did he do it? There was somewhere in there it was like pay what you want, and then I think he would take somebody out of that group and it it was just random and refund the payment. So that way you were getting some money, it wasn't a set price, so some people would give you twenty dollars for your book, somebody might give you two bucks, but he would then go in and refund it. That way one person would get the book for free, but you still had to kind of pay for it. So that was an interesting. I was like, that's a different slant on on that, and it is because a lot of times when you're just like it's free, you know. So yeah, Randy says, Billy Corgan, musician, podcaster, professional wrestler promoter, yes, and is now wearing eye makeup when he does his interviews. So he's got his spooky, you know. Everybody uh Jim and I are gonna start putting on uh what what a mascara. No, I can't touch my eye things. It's not gonna happen.

Monetization Beyond YouTube Ads

Jim Collison 31:24

I'm just gonna be really clear about that. I can't it's not I barely grow a beard very well, so let's just let's just be clear about that.

Dave Jackson 31:31

Yeah, should shorts be on a separate channel? Boy, that's a fun question, isn't it? I I wouldn't.

Jim Collison 31:38

I wouldn't. I think we we get two, I don't know. That's a good question. That is a good question. It kind of depends. Kind of depends on the content and your shorts and what your what the long form content looks like on your on your YouTube channel and what you're doing there with it and your audience expectations. I would test. I would test it. I would test it.

Dave Jackson 31:57

If it's on another channel, then I don't think you can do the link to the long version because it's not on the same channel.

Jim Collison 32:07

I would start on the same channel until people say, and listen, this is an area where I've watched some YouTubers do this where they they they created long content first and then they went short, and then they moved their short to a different channel, and I really like their short stuff and their long stuff. Then they so they then they divided them out, and then the audience complained, so then they brought it back. I don't know what their strategy is now. Like they've done, they've made so many changes. Right. I think sometimes pick a strategy, yeah, stick to it. Yeah, you know, for at least three months. More than a month. Yeah. Give it more than a month, like, oh, we're done. Okay, I'm gonna try something different. However, okay, Dave, that goes against the current entrepreneurial guru right, fail fast. Fail fast, right? And so, well, geez, you could fail through everything in two months, and then you maybe that's the point. I don't know. I I I think that sometimes in this space we need to give it a little more than a couple weeks.

Dave Jackson 33:01

Yeah. Stephanie says, Can you upload short clips all at the same time? Or do you need to space them out? No, I think you can upload them and schedule them. I think you can schedule them to release. Yeah, I think you can. Yeah. So Ralph says, well, VidIQ is telling me now when you say that, that's VidIQ's AI is telling me that I should be earning about $2,000 a month. Not sure where that is coming from, but that's what it's telling me. Well, if that's not true, then maybe it's time to stop paying attention to the AI and Vid IQ. I mean, it's I I've started to use that tool and I'm I'm still paying for it. I haven't gone into it yet, but I'm glad Ralph is doing this because now maybe I'll quit paying for it. But this is where see, and I don't know VidIQ. I just I know other people have recommended it. Also, they have an affiliate program, but it's one of those things where not every like what works for Jim and it works gangbusters may absolutely tank for me. Everybody audience everybody's audience is different. They're all the same, they like to listen to podcasts, they like to watch YouTube, but what works for Jeff C may not work for me. And so that's where you have to really know who your audience is and what they want, and give them what they want, and then ask them to tell a friend, etc. etc. And so some of the stuff, because I I mean I watch a lot of YouTubers talking about YouTube. There's a great video I just saw this morning, and it's two guys that are big shot smarty pants, it's blank and blank, and they took like f 47 videos, and they're they're interviewing top YouTubers, and they took out the best advice, and it was all great, but I was like, Well, that's true, and it was you know, things like know your audience, duh. But I'll be interested to see how specific they get, because some of it's very generic. Randy says YouTube's total revenue is about eight billion. That's with a B kids, based on how much they are paying out to content creators, they can't be making money. Alphabet has to do has to be subsidizing it with funds from another division. That could be possible.

Jim Collison 35:27

Hey, two of the biggest YouTubers that I know, and they're pretty big, both they do their shorts, they have long content, so 30 minutes more of their videos, right? And then their shorts are on their page. So I would, you know, it would go to their YouTube page, you can see video, and then there's a short tab. Yeah. So I think I think probably keep it on the same page now.

Dave Jackson 35:51

Yeah, and Stephanie's got a great point. Reach out to other people in your genre. So in Ralph's case, that's a faith-based show. See if there are other ones. And there is a oh man, there's a word for it. You can go into a video and ask someone to be, and it's not contributor, it's not partner, but it's a word in your YouTube studio. And if they accept it, that video will go onto their channel as well. I forget what that's called. I'm sure somebody will figure it out. But that is something else you could do. So keep that in mind. And in just in terms of you know, reaching out and and finding other like-minded people, he says, so Matt says someone I know motivates attendants to classes by taking money to attend and giving the money back at the door when they arrive. That's a good idea.

Jim Collison 36:43

So that is an awesome idea. Actually, so I worked for a bank like a thousand years ago, and the bank got bought by another bank, and we were having our final Christmas party. And they, you know, at the end of the year and they charged for it. And the uproar, you know, the uproar gave in the organization of this bank has more money than you know, they just sold, and how dare they, right? It was like five bucks. It literally was like five dollars to get into this Christmas party. Everybody was complaining, but it the the the night we got there, they gave you the five dollars back. They didn't tell anybody, right? They gave you the five dollars back and were like, enjoy yourselves, thanks for coming. It was the most, the best attended corporate Christmas party the company had ever done. A company had been around, you know, 100 years. And so I I I love that idea of because it goes back to the point I made earlier. If it's if everything's free, people they they're like, well, it's not worthless then, you know. It you're like, okay, whatever. You don't but you pay for it, you charge somebody to come to your live event, they'll be there. Yeah, it's little as five dollars, and they will be there because they they gave you some money. So I love that advice. It's we've talked about it before, but I I love that advice, and I I'd say don't shy away from trying to make everything free. No, shy away from trying to make everything free. Yeah.

Pricing, Perceived Value, And Offers

Dave Jackson 38:10

Well, back when I played in a band, some of the best places we played had a door cover, cover charge, cover charge to get in, and it was like five bucks. And that was to help pay the band, but also if you can afford five bucks just to get in the door, you can probably afford another five for a beer, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Jeff says Shorts now has a new collaboration feature. That's it. Collaborate. It's a pretty cool feature for video podcasters who have guests. Yes. So if you have guests and you're doing video, definitely do that. Lead with Jim says uh originally started a different channel because it was believed shorts hurt the channel, but now they combine. But you but you have to know the shorts audience and the long form audience are not the same. Yeah, that's true. There's a a guy, I just call him the bearded coffee dude. It turns out his name is Nick Fuentes. He's a a right wing kind of guy, but he's he's pretty sarcastic and he's pretty fun to watch. And I love his shorts. His shorts are fun, they're to the point, and they end with a little punchline. His long form stuff, I tried to watch it yesterday, and it's he he is his delivery was just information. It might as well have been saying 13% of people do this, 27% of people do this, and this is why. And this is what's and it was just info. There was no I don't know, there weren't any stories. It was just like reading Wikipedia, and I was like, and the fact that you know these people are are are awful and they're dumb and they're stupid. And I'm I'm tired of name calling. I don't know about you, I'm done with that. I'm like, if if all you're gonna do is call names, like ich, you know.

Jim Collison 39:49

It's been around, it's it's been around since the beginning of time, right?

Dave Jackson 39:52

Where two or more are gathered, there will be name calling, yes, and a casserole. VidIQ is for YouTubers, Matt says. It's harder to make it work for podcasters. It's about building a packaging first by chasing popularity. Yeah, the and I wish I knew the name of this video. I'll see if I can find it behind the scenes here. But they were saying how there was a guy that got like 400% more views because his content was amazing. No, because he spent more time looking at his he changed one thumbnail and it it just blew up the video. So that that I get. And there we go. I found the video. It's called the YouTube playbook in 37 minutes. I'll put a link in the show notes and here in the chat room. Although I shouldn't, because now you guys are gonna go watch that. Or so I thought. I'm trying to copy and paste from one computer to the other one here. But it's from Colin and Samir. I knew I I remember it was so-and-so and so-and-so. But they were saying that, and I don't know, I don't know why I get offended that the the thumbnail takes so much. I'm like, I work so hard on the content, and it's not gonna get an audience because the thumbnail. And I'm like, that just doesn't seem right. That who whoever makes the goofiest faces gets the most views. But yeah, and then yeah, Chris says every YouTuber, every podcaster, we're all looking for a shortcut. I mean, that's the people make millions off of people. Yeah, Colin and Samir are the YouTube people at the moment. Yeah, that's uh yeah, like I said, I've watched four minutes, four minutes of this hour, you know, they'll they'll be hot for like the next hour, you know.

Jim Collison 41:37

Dan Dan Lefebvre says something interesting in the chat. He says, Do you think, and I'll ask you this question, do you think that's why so many people don't see value in podcasts because they're free? I'll ask you that, Dave. What do you what do you I've got a thought, but what are your thoughts on do you think we should I mean it it makes logically it makes sense, but I don't know your thoughts.

Dave Jackson 41:58

Well, I know I don't hesitate to listen to one because it's not costing me anything. Whether that that will get you your first click. If you tell me something and it either makes me laugh, cry, think, grown, educate, or entertain, but especially if you say, try this, and I try it and it does what you said it did, you've now gained my trust. Now you've got my second click. That's and and if I do it again, I'm now your I'm probably your follower. So once it worked, I'm gonna come back and and follow you. So to me, the free is it, I don't have a problem throwing away shows because, well, you know, it it didn't cost me anything, and this is not bringing me any value. So, you know, so to me, it's weird. We're paying in follows and subscriptions, which hopefully then that person has a strategy to turn that into some sort of money, unless they're just doing it because they want to be helpful. I don't know. What do you think, Jim?

Jim Collison 43:04

Yeah, I think in most cases the free podcast is the loss leader in the you know, you're doing it, making it available. It's not free, it's not free to you. You're spending your time, your your money, your I have been going through all my subscriptions for podcasting. I'm like, oh, I spent, I spend a little bit of money each month, you know, making this happen. So it's not free to you. You know, you've you've put value in it, but it is a loss leader uh for some people. And then, you know, it's it depends on how you want to monetize if you're going down there. If you don't want to monetize, then just let it be its own thing. Just do it the way you want to do it, right? But if you want to monetize that, then the the value piece comes in. You know, we see this on YouTube with a lot of memberships, right? They have a membership ability there where you can create a membership level and people can pay and they get exclusive content based on, and then YouTube will surface that content to people who are not members, and you can click on it, it'll be like you need to be a member to do this, right? That's a strategy, and I think the question goes back to what we said in the very beginning what are you selling? Right. Then you back, you back everything into that question. What are you selling? Whether it's in it doesn't have to be the selling doesn't have to be a money thing. You don't have to be doesn't have to be t-shirts or hats or right, you can be selling ideas or concepts, but that's still what are we selling, and then we back into that. Like, okay, what do I need to do to attract people to do that if that's what I'm doing? Dave, I mean, you and I do this on Saturdays, and we've been accused of hiding this podcast in the because we don't we don't push it super hard. I you know, we don't spend a lot of time or a lot of money or a lot of effort on trying to make it the largest podcast on the planet. You do some things, you put it on LinkedIn, you've you've I I see you do some things with it, right? I always like it, try to promote it and those kinds of things, but we don't go hardcore after it. I think part of it is is one, we really like doing this, so it's just kind of fun to get together on Saturday mornings to get it done. Two, it is a outreach for you and an idea generator for you for school podcasting, right? You get benefit out of it by hearing what people are talking about. So the value for us in it is that, right? That's what I that's how I see it.

Brand, Luxury, And Audience Fit

Dave Jackson 45:13

Yeah. Stargate Pioneer, good to see you, buddy. Do people not see value in radio? I don't. Man, the the morning radio guy here, Rovers Morning Glory. Every morning it's when I talk about if when people make you laugh, cry, think groan, I tune into him for about 10 minutes every day to just go, like one day they were talking about somebody's feet. And I'm like, okay, I'm watching this and I'm bored because I don't really care about their feet. And they they have this one guy that's just weird and dumb and stupid, and all they do is make fun of him, and he's just because he's kind of weird, dumb, and stupid, but he's got really bad hygiene. And I'm like, uh, okay. Now, in in the same way that I don't read fiction, I want something that I can like, what am I supposed to do with the fact that this guy's toes are dirty and ugly, you know, and the fact that the audio of it was, oh, don't like okay, that's helpful. So, no, and every time I turn on radio, because I'll go in the kitchen and I'll ask the woman in the tube from Amazon to play the sports channel, and I'm here to tell you 70% of the time it's gonna be an ad for online betting, which I just find sad. And it's followed by another ad from a different online betting thing, which is then followed by yes, another online. It's just uh it's just depressing. And, you know, so I I keep going back to radio because it's easy. That's the one thing I can go in my car and click a button and go, oh, great, that same song I've heard a million times from back in black. You know, do I really need to hear you shook me all night long again? You know, so more channels than the 80s chick.

Jim Collison 47:03

Well, and then I'll go to the next one and the next one. Move away from 99.9 the rock to you know 107.4.7 the buzzard.

Announcer Dude 47:15

Yeah. Home of the buzzard.

Dave Jackson 47:18

Yeah, which back in the day launched the bands Bruce Springsteen and Rush. And now they're probably still playing Bruce Springsteen and Rush. I'm like, where's the new music? But don't get me started. If you haven't watched it, it has its place, though.

Jim Collison 47:32

It has its place. I mean, certainly it's still working. If it wasn't making money, it wouldn't be working, right? I mean, we saw the consolidation of radio in the 90s, and that was the only way radio was going to survive was to consolidate down and make it more efficient, right? They had to do that to survive. Your local radio station, if it was independent for most of the time, would not survive today. Now, there's probably some exceptions. Oh, in my area, whatever. There's a few exceptions, but your local radio station would not be around today if they had not consolidated, right? And then two, it's still getting listens, and advertising is still making money.

Dave Jackson 48:08

Yeah, they still make tons more money than podcasting does.

Jim Collison 48:11

Yeah, they do indeed. You know why? Because they have professional salespeople. Yeah. That's why. They have people who go out and beat the street to get ads. You know, if you hired a professional salesperson to go out and beat the street for ads, you you you might get more ads. You might not. I mean, today's market's tough, but yeah, uh, that's they they're there's they're professionals at this, they do it all day.

Dave Jackson 48:35

Yeah, Brad's got a great question. Do you think there's a sweet spot to charge for people? We mentioned five dollars. When I opened the school of podcasting, it was five bucks, and I didn't get hardly anybody. And then I had you need a good friend who called you up and said, Hey Dave, do you know of anything on the internet that has value that's five bucks? And I went, uh probably uh maybe some cheap plastic toy from China. He goes, Exactly. He goes, You're charging five dollars. So I raised my price to 20. And instantly, like literally the next day, had more people sign up. The bad news was they weren't doing anything. They would give me 20 bucks, and I'm like, great, my my uh business model was you will start a podcast, and people will go, hey, where'd you learn how to podcast? And you go, Oh, you got to go see my buddy Dave over at school of podcasting.com. But they weren't now a few were, but there are a lot of people that were giving me $20 and doing nothing because they're gonna get around to it. And it wasn't until I raised my price to 50 that people actually started making podcasts. And so there is a perceived value problem. Now, I just gave Tom Buck, I just signed up for his community on YouTube. Tom Buck's a YouTuber, he talks a lot about podcasting and microphones and cameras. Here's why I don't do major video. He was like, he was sporting wood about a lens for a camera. And I was like, okay, and they were showing it. It was literally just the difference between being a super tight shot and ooh, now I can see a little more to the background and it's blurry. Ooh, right? The lens was $900. And I was like, no, I'm not spending $900 to do this. So I'm like, no. But that's what Tom does. And to his credit, he goes, I didn't buy this. This is a friend of mine. So I'm like, okay, good for you. But what happened was thanks to the algorithm. So as much as I crack on the algorithm, it kept serving me up Tom Stuff. Now I've been watching Tom Stuffs for years, but I actually went over and started why and I watched like five videos in a row, all that delivered great value. And I went, you know what? I'm getting value for this. And at the end, he goes, hey, here are all my supporters. And I was like, how much is this support? And I could, there are different levels. And I'm like, you know what? It's a cup of coffee. I'm gonna give this guy five bucks a month. I don't know that that gets me in the names at the end. I think I had to give him 20 for that. But just a way of saying, add a boy, I hope you keep this up, have five bucks. And so that's to me, five bucks. I five is the new one in my book. Because you know what I mean? It's like it's like nobody uses change anymore. Like nothing's worth 50 cents. It's at least a buck. And a buck now is almost like the dollar meal at McDonald's is now five bucks. So I'm kind of like five bucks isn't as much as you know. I remember, I always tell people, I remember the taste of government cheese. So five bucks to me is still five bucks. But I think for most people, five bucks may not be that big a deal. I don't know. What do you think, Jim?

Supporters, Tools, And Shoutouts

Jim Collison 51:52

Is there a price there? Isn't it crazy how we lost the sense in our in our ads? Yeah. When you go out to buy, when you go to the grocery store, maybe the grocery store is different. I know Walmart's different like Walmart Target, but for a lot of services now, you know, the like you go out to eat the menu, it's just four dollars or thirty-five dollars or like there's no sense in any of those things, any of those things anymore. You know, here's the here's what I always think. And you know, I I'm notorious for being cheap. So like I love a good deal, and and I love, I mean, I love thinking that I got one over on the man. That's usually what what the way I do shopping, but you know, smart people when they, you know, you say you're you're getting ready to buy something and you're thinking, man, say it's $250. And you're like, God, $250, that's a lot. If that $250 makes you $5,000, you you don't even hesitate, right? Right. You go, if I said, Dave, I'm gonna give you $250, or you're gonna give me $250, and then I'm gonna give you back $5,000. You would fall all over yourself to give me that money, right? That's the value proposition we're that you need to do with people. I mean, I just spent a thousand dollars on an iPhone. Why? Because I need it. Like it's I I find that kind of value in it. And I think you have to ask yourself the question on this when we think about this dollar, what is this dollar amount? Yeah, you know, listen, you're gonna get people, and I get this in my Patreon group, they just it's value for value. This is why I kind of railed against the value for value a little bit, uh, or I still do in some ways. It was too small, like it it it wasn't enough for what we were doing, right? And so I think you've gotta be giving the person on the other end so much value back, they don't even question why they're why they're giving you that money. Like, oh yeah. So don't focus on the dollar amount, focus on the value that you're giving them, right? What it has to be it has to be so good they don't even question. My my wife and daughter listen to Taylor Swift. When that album came out, that her newest album, right, they were falling all over themselves to buy it. I mean, we have we bought the physical album, right? 35 bucks, yeah. It's a thing, right? Not that that's wrong, right? Not that that's wrong. But it to them, it had so much value they didn't even question about it. So as you're thinking about your content, does it have that kind of value that people are falling all over themselves? Maybe somebody wrote this in a book, Dave.

Dave Jackson 54:32

Yeah, just Jonathan Oaks of uh Trivia Warfare delivered so much value to his group, the Trivia Army, is the fact that they were just like, Where do I give you money? George Hobb over at the Geologic Podcast. They're like, George, look, we appreciate you're a musician. And we've bought all of your albums. We even bought the weird coloring book. Like, we want to give you money. And he was just like, okay, fine, here's a here's a PayPal. If you want to do monthly, here it is. That's when you know when it's time to monetize. Stephanie asked a great question. Do I still have people that pay me 20? I still have people that now for 20 years are paying me $5 a month. Not many, but I have a couple. And when you do the math on that, you're like, wait, $5 a year for 20 years. I'm like, yeah. And I've never raised the price. I always tell people, whatever price you join at is the price you stay at. So when I went from 49, I added unlimited consulting and I went to 99. If you're at 49, you're still at 49. That's just a that's just a Dave thing. So I'm like, because you believed in me before, and I I appreciate the uh that. So so join the school of podcasting now before I raise the price again. Chris says the whole thing has been a giant commercial commercial, and that's it. Join the school of podcasting. Yeah. Liz Wilcox has $9. See, here's the thing. What problem are you solving? This is the other thing when it comes to pricing. Because, yeah, so if like Wiz Liz Wilcox, from what I understand, is making serious bank at $9 a month, but she's doing it in volume, volume, volume, right? Liz is great, by the way. She's she's a very unique person, but really knows her stuff. And I'm this close to giving her $9 a month. And if you want to learn email marketing, Liz Wilcox's is $9 well spent. And so you have to like, what am I solving? Because, you know, if if dad's dying from cancer and you go, I've got the cure for cancer right here, I will pay for that. I don't even know what the price is. I will sell grandma to the gypsies to you, whatever, right? Boy, there's two wrong things in that phrase. I got to get rid of that phrase. Because A, I'm selling grandma, and B, I think gypsies is not a good word anymore. Anyway, so you know, that's the thing. Why do college students pay so much money for books? Because I need that book to take the class. I will pay whatever it takes. It's awful when it's well, that might be extortion.

Jim Collison 57:11

Like your college book example. That is extortion. Let's just be really clear about that.

Dave Jackson 57:18

But you know, why do people, you know, why do people pay 20 bucks for chat GPT? Why do we pay, you know, it it solves a problem. And that's usually it. When if you want somebody to pay you something, you're solving a problem. And that's either in almost always it relates to saving time or saving money. One of the two is usually in the top two, and then you get into it removes stress, it feeds me. Like, why do we pay for food? Well, because we well, again, that's extortion. And but, you know, so think go back and look at what you pay for.

Jim Collison 57:57

That's a good example though of this. Like, you know, we go out to eat, and the expectation when you're out eating, you know, hey, I could go to we have this really popular restaurant here called Pitch in Omaha, and they they have really good pizza, but it's like a $50 pizza, right? Let's just be really clear about that. I can go to Casey's, which is a gas station here that makes really good pizza too, and I get it for $20, right? And so there are times when I'm gonna spend the $50 because that's I want the atmosphere, I want the environment, that's what's gonna be value to me. It's gonna be a nice evening. I get a nice old fashioned there. I can't get the nice old fashioned at Casey's. They're not they're not selling old fashions out of the gas station. Oh, that's gonna be a good idea. Maybe not, maybe just for the passengers. But the but you know, the there are times, you know, hey, we just want Casey's pizza, and I'll fork over the 20 or 25 bucks. Nope, no problem, right? From from that perspective. So two different locations with different expectations and different sets of value. I actually like the cake, the gas station pizza a little bit better than I like the pitch. But I'm buying the atmosphere, right? When I go there, I'm buying, I'm buying that piece. Somebody said in chat, what's her face was doing nine dollars, maybe I'll do seven. No, I wouldn't go down, I would go. The other thing you can do is if you set your price too low to begin with, raising it is so hard. But it's so much easier to say 15 and it's discounted to 10. Yeah. And then you're still a dollar over, and people are like, hey, it's 10 bucks, right? Don't don't set low to begin with. Set high to begin with and discount it because it's much, much harder once you're bringing people in to bring that price up. You've set the expectation of of what it is. Easier to bring it down on temper on a temporary basis and then bring it back up from a pricing standpoint. Listen, if you're ashamed, I'm not saying you're ashamed in this case, but don't you you got if you want, you gotta put it out there, you know, and you gotta be proud and you gotta say this is worth it.

Dave Jackson 59:57

Well, so many times we compare ourselves to Netflix. Well, Netflix is whatever Netflix is 16, 17 a month. How can I charge 20? Because you're delivering stuff that they can't get anyplace else. That's a that's the when you get hyper niche and you You can only get that kind of information, that's worth more money because it's solving a problem. So it's it's kind of tricky. Mark from uh practical prepping.info says he's uh used to be a wedding photographer, once paid $900 for a used camera lens and paid $1,500 for another. So yeah, so when you see these people doing that, you know, video and they're really getting it's that's an expensive hobby, kids. Dan Lefebv says one dollar given to someone online also has all the fees taken out. Yeah, so you end up getting like 60 cents out of that. So that was that. Let's see. Wait, Jim, did you rant about five dollars last week? I don't remember if you did or not. You know, the true I don't know. I'm missing that.

Jim Collison 1:00:58

What was my rant?

Dave Jackson 1:00:59

I don't remember.

Jim Collison 1:01:01

I don't I don't either. I was in pain.

Dave Jackson 1:01:03

Yeah. Dan says, of course, the tricky part is value means something different for everyone. Yeah, that's the tricky part. Because some people, five bucks is like, I don't know if I have five bucks. Other people, 20 is like, oh, here, have a 20. So that's that's kind of the good news, but you know, that's why marketers are a full-time job to figure out the target audience and what they will find valuable. Yeah.

Merch: Quality, Margin, And Promotion

Jim Collison 1:01:26

Dave, I think sometimes too, with that dollar amount, we okay, the the way we do our podcast limits our audience, right? The way you do it, whether it's gonna, if it's gonna be 10 minutes or 30 minutes or an hour, okay, that's gonna get certain audiences. The way you do it is gonna dictate the certain audiences. Same thing on pricing, right? What how you charge for it is gonna limit your audience. Listen, I know I know you all know this, but luxury brands, when you know, when you think about the luxury brands, right, out there, they charge more, not because they always have a better product, because sometimes it's the exact same thing as what you paid discount for, right? And sometimes it is better, but is it that much better? No, you're buying status, right? Yeah, you're wearing that whatever I couldn't even tell you what the current brands are or that because I don't care, but there are people who do, right? And and you're like, oh no, no, I've got I'm driving this, or I've got these jeans, or it's this hoodie, or the sweatshirt, or whatever, right? You're buying the status that's associated with it, and they fight hard. Luxury brands fight hard to keep their prices up. They don't apologize about them, they're always trying to get the highest price, right? Now, because of that, they limit their audience. People like me who don't give, who don't care about that stuff, I'm not their customer.

Dave Jackson 1:02:52

I'm not buying a Gucci bag.

Jim Collison 1:02:55

Yeah, in podcasting, we try to be everybody's we want everybody to be our customer. In friends, you just limit it by what you do. You limit it by who you are and what you're doing. And so you you have to realize like, who am I targeting? And then don't go, don't be a luxury podcast and charge five dollars. Don't be a budget podcast and charge $99. Right? It you hear what I'm saying, right? I mean, so know who your audience is, know who you're going for, and know you're gonna limit people out in the process, and make sure your value proposition is appropriate to the folks that you're trying to attract. And there's no it's not like budget and luxury are one's easier than the other, they're both really hard, right? If you have the $99 luxury brand and you're charging five dollars, you need 20 for every one, you need 20 others, right? So it's it's it's it's hard as well. So just make sure who you know who you're going for.

Thank You Supporters

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Dave Jackson 1:03:53

Yeah, Jeff C says uh Jay Klaus says everyone wants recurring revenue, but it's really hard to provide recurring value, and that's the tricky part. Yeah, so it's always tricky, you know. But speaking of people giving money, it's time to thank our awesome supporters. We really do deeply appreciate that. We realize, especially we had somebody tell us they they they had a government job and they're not getting paid. And they're like, so we got to kind of back out. So I totally understand that, but you could be an awesome supporter like many of these fine people on the screen. And if you want to, if you want real value, well then you want to join the school of podcasting. We can not only help you launch, but we can help you grow as well as plan. Because I've had more than we've I've had a handful of people that have joined the school of podcasting. I'm like, where should I start? I go, go into planning your podcast. In fact, I've been podcasting for three years. I'm like, I know. Go take planning your podcast. And they'll come on and go, man, I'm not doing this right. You're like, yeah, yeah, that's what that's why I told you to start there. Don't forget you can use the coupon code coach, and that comes with a 30-day money back guarantee. And if you just need some honest feedback, check out podcasthotseat.com where I'll check out your episode that you pick as well as your website. And if you go to ask the podcastcoach.com, that is podpage. And if you want a tripod page, well, then just go to tripodpage.com. And if you want to learn pod page, you can go to learnpodpage.com. And if you need more Jim Cullison and hey, who doesn't, then just go over to homegadgetge.com or if you want to go crazy, you can go to theaveregeguy.tv. They both go to the same place. So take your pick. Two, two ways to get more Jim. And uh it's time for our lovely Wheel of Names, where we take one of those awesome supporters who is paying $20 a month. Thank you so much for that. It's people like Jody from Audio Branding, Ralph from the I need to update your artwork, Ralph, the formerly known as Grit and Growth Business, now known as the content creator's accountant. Could be John Munts, could be Greg over at Indie Drop In. We'll spin the wheel and see what we get. And it's looking like, is it Ralph? Is it Ralph? No. It goes up to Ross Brand, who I affectionately refer to as the king of streaming. Ross Brand on podcasting is the show. Super great guy. And I know the last time I was checking out a show, he was explaining all the video streaming on Substack. And who knew that was a thing? I was like, holy cow. But Ross did, because again, he's the king of the live streamers. So thank you, Ross, for being an awesome supporter. And if you would like to be an awesome supporter, one of these buttons will actually advance. This honest, I will. There we go. If you want to be an awesome supporter, because maybe we saved you some time, saved you some money, saved you a headache, maybe we kept you educated or even made you giggle, then you can go over to AskThepodcastcoach.com slash awesome and be an awesome supporter today. So thank you to all those people that have been doing that.

Jim Collison 1:07:06

Greatly appreciate it. Whoa. What's going on with the video? Why am I why am I big? You're big. You are big.

Dave Jackson 1:07:13

Uh wow. That's uh wait, let's can I do scene.

Jim Collison 1:07:19

Was there a scene, maybe that guy? There was a scene and I somehow go back to although I'm a little bit bigger. You're gonna drive people who have I know now there we go.

Dave Jackson 1:07:29

We'll have to name is not where oh it's this is where I cats and dogs yard and restrict.

Jim Collison 1:07:36

Like you can't mess up these things, right? You can't you you can't mess them up. It's because day. We should have done we we should have done, we should could we still could if you wanted to, but your artwork for this show and for your other shows is is so good. We should have done merch for this show, t-shirts and hoodies and this like for for us in this show as we're talking about monetization. Our best because we're a personality show, right? We don't sell anything. Yeah, yeah, we're selling the school podcasting, right? I hope you all know that. That's why we do this. So that Dave can pimp the school podcasting, right? And we have good fun doing it as well. But a secondary stream for us would have been merch for sure, right? To have people wear it around, and then you could do things where people show up in different places with it and they take pictures and you reward them for that with social rewards, right? Those kinds of things. We we probably I wouldn't say we missed the boat because the boat's still there, but merch, which is hard. I mean, it's not you don't build it and they will come. You've got to, you know, you've got to do some things with it. But merch probably would have worked, could have worked well for us in this in this setting.

Dave Jackson 1:08:47

Yeah, Rich is saying lock your scenes. Lock your scenes. What happened was I forget where Jim was, and we had I forget who it was, stepped in. It was when I was out for my neck, and I think I I unlocked it so I could change the name and then somehow accidentally moved it, and now it's cats and dogs, you know.

Jim Collison 1:09:08

Yeah. So I listen, I'd wear Ask the Ask the Podcast Coach merch every week if we had it. Like that would be, you know, we'd have hoodies and t-shirts. I'm not saying we should do this. This is not pressure. This is not like this is not, I'm not bullying you into doing the merch thing. It was just I was thinking about it. I was just like, you know, uh that would be an interesting with merch, you can't go cheap. Like, this isn't one of those things you go, well, we'll try it. You gotta kind of go all in. Yeah. Like have a bunch of different stuff. Then you gotta, you gotta sell the heck. Like, you guys would probably get sick of us say, hey, we got merch that's available for you. Because you can't make merch and then not tell anybody about it. You gotta remind people, like, hey, we got merch, and by the way, I'm wearing it, and some of the There you go.

Dave Jackson 1:09:56

I don't know what domain I typed in to get this. I think it's podcastclothes.com because I remember it was hard to say clothes. It does help if I spell it right. I think that's where this runs over to my T public or whatever. But yes, you've got uh you know, school of podcast. Is there no Ask the Podcast coach shirt I need to get the logo? Especially because I've got that awesome logo from Mark. But there are a bunch of if I can get the actual link here. Yeah ta- ta. Nope, that's not it. Yeah, I will put this in the chat room. So if you want, I will I will somehow make a Ask the Podcast coach show. But most of these, I think I have them marked up like I make, you know, a dollar per shirt because they're one-up shirts.

Jim Collison 1:10:47

So it's not uh AI goes to college. Uh has a super chat out there.

Dave Jackson 1:10:52

Oh my goodness, a super chat. Well, then we gotta do this. Please work. I hit the button. There we go. Yes. Yes. So thank you for that. Yes, check out Craig's show, AI GoesTocollege.com. And also, if you want to live well and flourish, you can check out live well and flourish.com. And I always remember I have to time this to where the money quits falling and I can hit the stop button. So thank you very much for that. Deeply appreciated.

Goals, Focus, And Non-Monetary Wins

Jim Collison 1:11:25

So well, if we're gonna do a merch though, we gotta do it right. I mean, that's like listen, you have in a store is great. We got to talk about it every week if we're gonna like you would technically need a merch segment in here, or every week, maybe it's at the end. Hey, don't forget, go out here, get this done. You can order things here, get that stuff kind of done. So I appreciate all the support in the chat room. By the way, Dave still makes all the money off this, but you know, that if we're gonna do merch right, if you're gonna do merch right, you gotta talk about it all the time. All the time. You have to have it on, it's gotta be in the shot camera shots, right? All that stuff.

Dave Jackson 1:12:01

When I looked into this for my my book, profit from your podcast, except that's here. We go there. Profit from your podcast. I did write a book. Did people buy that? It's actually available as an audiobook now. Find it at profit from your podcast. But the people that did well with merch, either A, A, it was almost always limited time only. Get the, you know, Ow, I hurt my neck t-shirt with Jim on it, or you know, the you know, a phrase where it's like eCAM isn't working today, dog gone, you know, ask the whatever. My favorite was there was a show that was run by LGBTQ plus people. And as you might imagine, that somehow triggers some people, and somebody left them a one-star review and it just said stupid, and then it used a very naughty word. And they took a screenshot of that one-star review and put it on a t-shirt and then put their website address underneath of it. So it was kind of a badge of honor, like, yeah, we are stupid blanks. And so I thought that was cool. But there was one guy that he had, and this is where it gets lucky, had somebody in his audience that would just occasionally they would come up with a phrase. Somebody would say, I remember one there was like, and and I I don't this is so weird out. I just remember it involved a poopy banana. I don't remember why, but but they made a poopy banana shirt, and it was an inside joke to the fans. It probably got people going, why do you have poopy banana on your shirt? And then they go, Oh, it's this podcast, blah, blah, blah. But again, it was available only for a limited time only. And yeah, Rich says, fourth wall. I what I should do is talk to Alex from Podmatch because when I wear the Podmatch t-shirt, it's like, oh, it's not itchy. It's not sometimes when you get a big giant decal, it's rough and it doesn't bend. Like pod match shirts are nice. A Weber, I still love their t-shirt. So it's a matter, like you said, you want it to be good because it's part of your brand. And fourth wall, if I remember right, doesn't make bad stuff. I know there's a bunch of YouTubers that use that, but then again, you kind of go, is that because they have an affiliate program? He said, looking for his link. They do have an affiliate program. And so, but from what I've seen at least, you know, I need a pod page sweatshirt because all my t-shirts, it's getting a little cold for uh t-shirts here in Ohio. But yeah, merch is one of those things that it sounds like a great your super fans will buy it, but the the problem is because you're not buying in bulk, they're fairly expensive to make one-offs, and then you make, you know, if if you don't jack them up, because then it's like, you know, I remember I was at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame a couple months ago, and their t-shirts were like 35 to 45 bucks. And I'm like, I like the rock hall, but no. Like, A, they weren't that great looking shirt. It was just a picture of a pyramid with little guitar frets on it, and I was like, eh, you know, so that was one more I want to give you $40 to keep this thing open. It's very much a patron kind of thought there that it was, I was it was more of a donation than I want a really cool shirt. Yeah, so Rich says, yeah, you can use a cheap shirt or a more expensive one, higher quality shirt. Yeah. Sweatshirts, you know, yeah. You know, it's uh one of those things. Have you ever tried merch for anything?

Jim Collison 1:15:41

Yeah, yeah. We had home gadget geek shirts for a while and they sold okay. Uh Addy Salcito. Remember Addy? Yes, yeah. So Addy helped me. That was a little partnership between me and her. She liked doing that kind of stuff, and I hated it. I hate merch. See, let's just let's just be I'm gonna just be transparent. I hate doing merch. But it would, so she was like, Oh, I would love and not the merch itself, but I hate all the back end business stuff you gotta do right for it. So I said, I don't we are she was on my podcast. I said, I don't want to do it. She's like, I'll do it for you. I said, Would you do it and keep all the money? And she said yes. I was like, that excellent. You you set up the store, you keep all the money, I'll sell the t-shirts. And so for about a year, we sold t-shirts, and then I I did, I just kind of we did it for a while, we stopped it, you know, and they sold, we sold I don't know, 50 of them, maybe 25, something like that.

Dave Jackson 1:16:34

So yeah, and if you if you want a really good looking shirt, you know, there's a guy called Mark at podcastbranding.co that could probably help you design a t-shirt as well.

Jim Collison 1:16:44

Well, because you use Mark Dave, that's why I mean your logos are so good. Yeah, because you and you know, home gadget geeks, I had a designer do mine too. And so, like, you know, there's it it is when you have that kind of con when you have that kind of stock, it's not what you call it, but art, graphics, you should take advantage of them for sure.

Dave Jackson 1:17:05

Yeah, and it's well, I love the fact that part of your logo like is your glasses. Yeah, right. Yeah, like that's that's kind of cool. And the fact that you've got a a home, it's just it's it's you know, this is one of those where somebody put some thoughts into it.

Jim Collison 1:17:22

So if you turn the glasses up, it's GG for gadget geeks. Right. So right. I mean, you yeah, all these little in, you know, there are these all these little hints in there of things. The uh the guy who did my logo was uh we I had him do it when he was a high school student way back in the day. He's gone on the he the the latest Wonka movie that came out a couple years ago. He he created the font for that for that whole movie. Wow. This dude's talented. Yeah, he I didn't know at the time. He was young, I mean he was still in high school when I had him do my logo stuff, and he he was looking for some additional experience, and he was a super great guy. And so we partnered together on that and he made some stuff for me, and uh, and I've used the heck out of it. So it does. That's an area. I mean, I really I really value the talent that Mark has because we none of us, nobody else, I shouldn't say nobody, not many of us have that kind of talent, and so thank goodness he is sharing that talent with the world, and he's worth every penny. Like you're gonna pay for it, but he's worth that's you know when we're talking about value. This is a good example of it. Mark is not the cheapest guy. No, he's not, he's not the budget fiver guy. He's he but everything he does is excellent, and it's it's for me, if I needed it, I'd pay for it. He and I talked about I talked about replacing my logo at one point. We talked about doing it, and I just never never got I never got to it. It was just some it's a it's a little bit of work too on your end. If you're gonna do your logo stuff, it's not like make a logo and then it magically appears, right? There's back and forth that goes on and some revisions and some of those kinds of things. So, but very much your your graphic design work is worth every penny if it's done right.

Dave Jackson 1:19:14

Yeah, the the fun thing was this was the old school of podcasting logo. So it had a little microphone, and it had, you know, like this looks like a waffle pattern on the microphone because that would be the grill and then the font and then a little hat, things like that. The problem that I didn't think about when I originally had this done was this microphone with all the patterns on it and stuff is horrible to print on a t-shirt or anything else. And so in theory, I should have like wiped out the microphone and just used from here on over. But that's I forget, I think I paid 10 bucks for that from somebody on Fiverr, right? Not a horrible logo, but in the end, when you know, when I got to the one I'm using now, I was just like, oh, this is so much better. So, you know, you kind of get what you pay for with that. Speaking of paying for things, as we got about eight minutes here. Oh, first of all, I loved Rich just made a comment. He said Jim hates merch as he wears a Nebraska tea shirt drinking from a branded mug. And also, somebody brought up the fact that we were really impressed that uh Miss Nebraska was crying the new Miss USA and Jim didn't say a thing.

What’s Next And Closing Notes

Jim Collison 1:20:27

I didn't know. I didn't know. Yeah, so well, let me be and let me be clear. I said this in the chat room. Let me be clear. I I hate doing merch myself. Like I don't want to, I don't want to design it, I don't want to set up stores, I don't want to have to pimp it all the time. I don't want to have to. I I definitely buy, you know, the t-shirt I'm wearing is because I ran a marathon at Gallup and we all bought these, you know, I paid for this. We all bought these really cool shirts that were, by the way, done by designers. They look good, right? And and I think on the back it says sweat like a pig, run like a fox, something like that, or run like a fox, sweat like a pig, something like that. So it's super cool, right? But and uh, and of course, yeah, Dan. I mean, this has this is this mug has great, this logo is awesome. I mean, Dan did a nice job on that. That's a really well done logo. So I love the concept of merch, and I love I love when people have great design on that. I just don't like I I don't like managing it. I don't want to do it, I don't want to run a store. Yeah, you know, that's one of the things that he said, wait a minute, Jim doesn't make any money. Yeah, I don't want to manage that. Like there's there's other reasons, but I don't want to manage all that stuff. I don't want to have Dave to say, okay, I gotta cut you a check for, you know, let's figure out how to no no no no no no. I'm here because I like hanging out with Dave, you know, and there's there's other things involved in that as well, but primarily I just want to support my good friend Dave. Like I want I want to be a good human and come out here and and I want to see Dave be successful with this. And so yeah, it's one of the reasons I was like, no, let's not, let's not do that. You just you do it. It also allows me to just on a Saturday morning, an hour before the show, say, I can't I can't show up today. I can't do it. Sorry, right? You know, so I have great freedom in that sense because because of that.

Dave Jackson 1:22:22

Well, I will ask you in two months, because it'll be January. We always have the what I call the uncomfortable conversation. I'm like, hey, are we still good with and you'll go, you know, and then we move on. Well, I actually need to talk to you about that after the show's over today. So we're we're gonna have that conversation two months early. All right, good. You know, Steph says, How many clips of your show do you put on YouTube? I don't think it's a number. For me, I know I'm I'm now playing with Riverside, and I said, Hey, Makey, make some clippy doos, and it did, and I was like, Yeah, that one's not very good. Uh that one's uh okay. Oh, that one's not bad. So my answer there was one, because there was one that was good. So I don't think it's a matter of you know, it's you know, I it's a tease. It is the a lot of mall talk today. If you remember you'd go to the mall and there'd be a guy in the food court giving you pieces of chicken hoping you would buy the sandwich. If if I were to eat five pieces of that chicken, I wouldn't need the sandwich. That's the point. So you gotta you gotta keep some there so people you want to leave them wanting more. That's the whole point of the short clips. This is a horrible one to bring up at four minutes till. Uh, here's a hot take to pull the podcast effort versus value apart. Monetizing and drawing value from your podcast, but with no interest intrinsic goals is not going to work. I'm not sure I fought. Do you follow this?

Jim Collison 1:23:50

Yeah, like you know, we go can you throw can you throw it back on the screen for a second? And we go back to that concept, like the of effort versus value, right? Monetizing and drawing value from your podcast, but with no intrinsic goals, it's not gonna work out. In other words, like if you're if you if you don't have a goal in doing it, yeah, I mean it could be a struggle. I I think it's more about focus. Like, what's your focus gonna be? And if your focus is to monetize it, you've got to go about it a little bit different than if it's not to monetize it. And by the way, neither one of those is better. You can, you know, we just said I I don't monetize this podcast with Dave because my my values here are are to support Dave. That's what I want to do, right? It's it's a choice I've made in that. But if we had come out the gate and said, okay, Dave, you and I we're gonna split it 50-50 and we're gonna go at this thing like we want to make some money off of it, we'd do it completely different. I mean, it would be a different kind of show, right? Now, content may be the same, but we may do some some things a little maybe not. But yes, so I agree with that, right? And that doesn't mean it can't be just because you decide not to monetize it, it can't be successful. It can be very successful and not a lick of monetization, right? That's in it. So I think home gadget geeks is a lot that way. Like I don't, there's I do very little to monetize that thing. I have other I have other motivations of why I don't, but I do very little to monetize it. It it for me, it's brought me over the last 15 years, it's brought me a lot of great personal value.

Dave Jackson 1:25:24

Yeah. So I I remember there was a member of the school of podcasting, and I asked him how his downloads were doing. He's like, Oh, I haven't looked at my downloads in months. He goes, All I know is I get to talk to people I have no business talking to. And he goes, So you know, it's like, so it's not always about money. It's like now those those relationships led to other opportunities, which probably led to money, but you know, SP says values, goals, focus, mission, statements, and strategy are all great topics for deliberate planning for content creation. Yeah, that's even when I was in bands, I remember I was in a country band, and we knew we weren't moving to Nashville, but we wanted to be one of the best country bands in in the area. And so we had a set thing where it had to be a song that was in the top ten within like the last five years. That was our criteria. Like if it made it to number 11, it's a great song. I'd love to play it, but it's not a top, and it just made it easy to select songs, and then we had, you know, you show up on time, we, you know, we'd always do a sound check. It's just it was just all these little things. Now it was a hobby, and we spent money to make sure we had the right equipment to sound good, but in the end, you know, it was a hobby. And in the end, did I make money? Sure. But I wasn't gonna, you know, uh quit my day job anytime. So if it it's funny, because in the 70s, you know, you made somewhere between 50 and 100 bucks a gig, and in the 2000s and 2010s, you m made fifty to a hundred bucks a gig. You know, and if you and that's why you have more people now doing in a way, kind of AI. You have uh guys that have uh they're called looping machines, and so he'll he'll hit a button and it'll record him playing some chords, and then when he lets off his his foot, it starts, it just keeps repeating, and then he'll sing over that, he'll play the guitar, so he's a one-man band. Because A, nobody A, there isn't much live music, at least in Akron, Ohio. If it was if I was in Austin or Nashville, that'd be a different story. But yeah, so anyway, Jim, what is coming up on Home Gadget Geeks?

Jim Collison 1:27:37

Yeah, we just talked about it, and because I don't do a lot of advertising, I took the week off. You can just do that when you're when you're so I took the week off, but uh plenty of shows to check it out to check out if you want to go out there. A couple live shows coming up that'll be interesting. You can check it all out. I said check it out too many times. HomeGadgetGeeks.com.

Dave Jackson 1:27:56

Check it out, yeah. So uh the um this is not a thing I just do all the time, but it just so happens uh that another famous person died, and I'm doing a show kind of based on that, and I'm you talk about hot takes. Uh Ace Freely, the lead guitar player from KISS, uh passed away, unfortunately, at the age of 74. I'm now going to baby proof my house because what killed him is he fell and ended up with a blame a brain bleed. But here's the hot take. In my opinion, Ace Freely was not a fabulous, remarkably holy cow kind of guitar player, and yet he influenced millions of people. So, how is how do you influence people when you're not the absolute best in your field? And so I look into that and I was like, oh, I see some things here, why people connected with him, and how you could do the same thing with your podcast. So, and what's fun about that, it's already recorded, which means I'm gonna go spend time with my uh great nieces and nephews today. We're going to um Craniacs in Pennsylvania. I'm driving out of the state to go to a weird store that does Christmas 24 7 365. It's a giant Christmas store, and it's not even Halloween yet. That's scary. But uh, we'll be back here next week, ask the podcastcoach.com slash live. Thanks to uh Craig over at AIGOSTOCollege.com, podcastbranding.co, and based on a truesttorypodcast.com. Uh, if you're watching on YouTube, like, subscribe, and ring the bell. And no matter where you're listening or watching, tell a friend.