Ever Onward Podcast

Why This Week Matters in Idaho Politics with Kelly Anthon | Ever Onward - Ep. 113

• Ahlquist. • Season 1 • Episode 113

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Why does this week matter in Idaho politics? Because the decisions being made right now will shape the future of our state—often without most people ever hearing about them.

On this episode of Ever Onward, Matt Todd and Tommy Ahlquist sit down with Idaho Senate President Pro Tem Kelly Anthon to break down what’s really happening inside the Capitol during one of the busiest stretches of the legislative session.

From the reality of reviewing 1,000+ drafted bills to the challenges of balancing rural and urban priorities, Kelly shares a candid look at leadership, the legislative process, and what it actually takes to move policy forward in Idaho.

The conversation also dives into education, online learning, banking and ESG concerns, and why staying engaged as a citizen matters more than ever.

If you want a clear, grounded perspective on Idaho politics—this is a conversation worth listening to.

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Introducing Kelly Anthon

SPEAKER_03

Today on the Ever Onward Podcast, we have a very special guest. Matt Todd and I will be interviewing Kelly Anthon. Kelly is a just a great Idahoan and an unbelievable leader. He is the 42nd president pro tem of the Idaho Senate. He assumed that role in December of 2024. He was preceded by Chuck Winder in that role, who had been in for a long time. Prior to being the pro tem, he was the majority leader of the Idaho Senate from 2020 to 2024. Kelly is an unbelievable guy. He was born in Burley, Idaho. He is one of the leaders that everyone turns to over in the state house, especially this time of year. We are very thankful for him to be able to make some time to come talk to Matt and I about Idaho politics, everything going on in this session. Very excited today to have on President Pro Tem Kelly Anthan. Kelly, thank you so much for coming on. We already did kind of our formal introduction of you, but thanks for coming on with me and Matt. That's gonna be fun. I didn't know you guys hadn't we haven't connected yet.

SPEAKER_01

I just met him for the first time. Well, unless you count Facebook.

SPEAKER_03

We're Facebook friends. Hey, um you've got a lot going on, and I know it's uh uh it's kind of hell week for you over there, so coming over here means a lot to us.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's my pleasure. This has been the busiest first week I've ever had in the legislature. I can tell you that. It's been a crazy one.

SPEAKER_03

Well, we were talking a little bit with Mike about a lot of new faces last session and now this session, um, going into a campaign year. Yep. Uh budget stuff. There's just a lot going on right now. So we appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_00

No, thanks for the invite. Super nice.

SPEAKER_03

I was starting by uh when you came in, I I know you pretty well and I really appreciate your leadership. But um just asking you about how your family is because this is not easy for you guys to do this, right? I mean, you leave home, you come over here four months a year, you still have your family, you still have everything going on in your life. And uh start there because I I I you gotta tell us about your spouse, your kids, you gotta have the right support to serve in the capacity you do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, you know, I always ask my kids before I run if if they're still good with this. And do they tell you the truth? I was gonna say, probably the truth is they're happy for me to go every year. But no, you know, my kids honestly, they don't really know anything other than this. I mean, when I first got into politics, my youngest was two years old. Uh, she doesn't know anything other than this. How old is she now? She's 13. So going on 14 this year. So this is all she's ever known. And um, you know, when we first started coming to Boise, we would come together and uh the kids would get their homework from Declo Elementary School, and they worked with us, and we just kind of made it work. But, you know, they're older now, they're in cheerleading and dance, and my son wrestles, and so it and and my duties here have changed. So I'm at the Capitol in the very early morning and I go home late at night, and so it doesn't even make any sense for anybody to be here with me. So but no, we've accepted this. This is just you know something we do.

SPEAKER_03

So well, I'm gonna do one other comment and then we'll get into uh, but I I I think never has it been more important in our state and our country, just have good people like good people that represent us that are and and so I really appreciate you and the fact that you're in leadership, and I I don't know of anyone more respected than you over there, every single person you talk to, uh, you do a great job. And so um I just appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's nice of you to say, you know, when I um got into leadership, I kind of took seats that Bart Davis had. Yeah, and Bart Davis is quite a guy. Oh and uh one of the things I did take over with from him was a lot of his speaking assignments, and that was intimidating because if you've ever watched Bart Davis, he's an orator, he is, and he's so funny. And as a matter of fact, one of the speeches I I I had to take over on an annual basis was in a bun uh in front of a bunch of lawyers, and so I've been doing that for a number of years, and somebody came up to me in the hall and they said, Hey Kelly, you you know you do a really good job. You you teach us a lot, but you're not as funny as Bart Davis. But but anyway, Bart?

SPEAKER_01

No, never had the pleasure.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, you should. He's a big personality and just an unbelievable guy who um is back now, right? Back as U.S. Attorney Trump administration. Yeah. Was out for a few, now he's back.

SPEAKER_01

He's an you should have him on because he's un I've been waiting for the invitation or the group, you know, shoot a group text over an intro.

SPEAKER_03

We'll do that because he would be a fascinating interview and a just a wonderful idea of it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But Bart Davis told me, uh, because I said, Bart, what do I say when I go to these things? You know, he said, one thing I should always say is that the Idaho legislature is full of good people. And really, I do believe that. If you look around, there are really good people in the legislature. You know, there's a bad nut here and there. But really, I think there are good people in the Idaho legislature, like really good moral people.

SPEAKER_03

I would take that another step. I think people, I think it's easy to say, oh, the legislature. Right. And I didn't really like because I I was one of those guys. And then when I ran the for governor and I spent two years driving around the state and meeting with every single person I could, I'm like, these are really good people with great hearts, and they're there to represent their their view of the world, and their view of the world is not ours. And we got the great state of Ada here, right? I mean, yeah, it's true, it's now Ada and Canyon, but but we've got we've got a lot of population here, and we see the world one way. And boy, you only have to get a few miles any direction. Yep. What whatever way you're going, and go, oh, there's a whole nother Idaho out there that has nothing to do with Ada County and Canyon County. And those people are passionate Idahoans with heritage and love of this place. And I need to listen to them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, and you, you know, we've we've heard a lot of chatter this last uh year or so about what we make in terms of compensation, you know. But the truth is when you really think about, you know, being away from family, earning$25,000 a year to do this job, it's you've got to be committed, you've got to have your heart in the right place, I think. You know, there's there's no other reason than to do it. It's a calling. You're doing it for you're doing it because you really want to help Idaho. I really believe that. Yeah. So anyway.

Good People In The Legislature

SPEAKER_01

Um question for you. When you mentioned that you'd bring your kids here earlier, obviously the the concept of uh having a remote capable education system is one that has really exploded in the last, you know, like five, six years. There are proposed big slashes to the Idaho um uh Digital Learning Alliance, right? Which is again an online platform through the State Department of Education. And again, I know everybody's gotta do cuts, like everybody's gotta tighten their belts. What do you think? Because it sounds like you were capable years ago of engaging in essentially remote education with your kids and successfully working with them and an established brick and mortar school system. So do you think that you know the the requirement of having a full kind of uh IDLA layout is is actually required? Or do you think that people can patch together kind of remote education in other ways?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think you can uh patch together some kind of a format for your own family, but I do think that the IDLA program is necessary. And I think that the cuts that you're hearing talked about are really to find efficiency. I mean, I when I talk to the governor about those IDLA cuts, um, they're not trying to ruin the program. They're trying to really create an environment where where efficiencies are found. And when they're looking at what's happening with IDLA right now, there is a belief that there are efficiencies to be found. Um, I'll tell you, I grew up in Declo, Idaho. Um, I'm sixth generation in Kaja County, seventh in Idaho. I mean, we've been around for a long time. When I went to Declo, Idaho, we had no dual credit, we had nothing. I mean, when I went to college, I went into college with people who had already had a whole year's worth of college credits done by the time they got done in high school. We just, we didn't have that opportunity in the rural, you know, areas of Idaho. Um, with the the onset of these kinds of online programs, I mean, it's just a game changer. So my kids have been able to get their associates' degrees before they graduate high school. I mean, this is why. So to answer your question, we absolutely need these online resources for, especially for rural Idaho. Uh, I really try to be a voice for the rural communities. I mean, as the Idaho populations grow and change, you have fewer and fewer people like me who were raised out on a farm in the middle of rural Idaho that's a good idea. Yeah, what's the population of Deklo? Oh, Deklo has just over 300 people in town.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00

But that's because most of us live outside of Declo on farms and stuff like that. So my district has 55,000. Now I have three counties, you know, so it's a pretty big geographic area. I represent District 27, which is a pretty big swath of the Utah border. So we're we're down there.

SPEAKER_01

It's pretty rural. There was a big concern last uh session about uh some online schools and essentially uh in collaboration with some companies in Utah that they were essentially farming out the actual and essentially aggregating enrollment um in an online mechanism and then farming out the education to out-of-state, out-of-state organizations. Is that is that some am I remembering that correctly?

SPEAKER_00

You are, yeah. That's Isla. I mean, that's uh that's a school district that's in my district, my uh, my area, out of Millad City and Oneida County. Look, you know, um people are trying to fill out what you've just described. There's a real need for this online uh education education. I mean, there are kids who will not fit into a traditional school system. And I actually spoke at the Isla's uh graduation, and you realize that those kids would not have done well. They would not have graduated. I really believe it had they not been able to have the services that were provided by Isla. Now, what Isla's doing is they're they're getting their curriculum, they're getting their services through private corporations that happen to be out of Utah. And that's how they're servicing these families. I mean, I think there's a dialogue to be had again about efficiencies and whether or not that's the way to do it or not. But whether or not we should have those kinds of things available is a no-brainer to me. Makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So it's like, hey, look, this works. And in fact, I uh had a conversation with the executive director of the Breaking Chains organization. He works with uh youth that are engaged in, you know, parole activities. I mean, there's like some rough stuff, right? And in the Canyon, uh Canyon County area. Um, but again, what they're doing is they're working to help these kids get their GEDs, get their high school equivalency. Like, this is really important. So, and these are people that are obviously not fitting within the standard economic platform. So, yeah, man, like there's absolutely a need at some point. You got to acknowledge uh alternative education mechanisms.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You know, I think about it like commerce. And I don't know, this is my analogy. I I I think it's a good one. You know, uh, if you've ever been to Rupert, Idaho, and if you haven't, you need to go there. But this is where the town, little town where I work. Great downtown.

SPEAKER_01

The little downtown they have good burgers. Oh, of course. Oh, God. Of course. I'm come to Rupert, Idaho. I love a good burger. I die for burgers.

Online Learning’s Role In Rural Idaho

SPEAKER_00

You need to come for the finger stakes. But anyway. Oh my god, okay. You know, there was a time when the downtown was the core of all commerce. I mean, anything you went to buy, you'd go to the downtown that was the Rupert Square. Sure. There was no other place to buy anything. And by the time I got to high school, that downtown was an absolute catastrophe because commerce had moved away from these little downtowns. It's the same thing in any main, you know, main city, downtown main uh city of any uh, you know, main street in the United States. Because everything had gone to the mall.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Everything had gone to the mall. And so uh now you fast forward and you go to these malls, they're struggling, right? They're empty. I mean, you see them. I mean, actually, Boise's is not that bad, but I've gone gone to some malls and you know the stores are empty.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah, they just demoed the one in Pocatello, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00

They're tearing it down. The reason is because we're all buying on Amazon, right? So if you follow commerce, you you realize that with technology and with the changes that take place in society, if you were just to stick with the model of you have to go downtown to buy your goods, you're out of business. And I think that it's the same thing with education. You know, if we always stick to this concept that you have to do it the way we've always done it, you're missing the opportunity. And in my little high school in Declo, had we stuck with the program and never offered any, never offered anything online or anything, my kids would not have gotten those associates' degrees, you know. There has to be a willingness to open our minds to new opportunities, new way of doing things. And uh I think that's hard sometimes for um the education infrastructure in the United States and in Idaho. I think it's hard for people to do that.

SPEAKER_01

The the geographic proximity has largely been the thing that's determined what uh tendance, right? And it's like, well, listen, if you're just saying you're the best, it's like, it's like poor Tommy's wife, right? She's like, shoot, he's the best I can get in here. Right. It's the best I can. I mean, maybe if I was in a different town, I could do better. And I'm pretty sure I can, but he's the best I'm standing next to. It's like the same thing with education to a degree. If you decouple the geographic requirement, then it's like, okay, well, are you really like I did SAT tutoring? I I eventually developed an online SAT platform. And it's like, yeah, because look, I'd put me up against anyone in like New Jersey or wherever, right? But the the barrier is that people aren't in front of me, right? So yeah, I have a great appreciation. So the idea that you're essentially getting at is look, we can argue about who the providers are, who the services are, but the concept of having this this uh mechanism to educate children is is not in dispute. Right, right. You know, I feel so bad for Tony's wife, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, 37 years worth of bad. Um we all have to stick with our bad decisions. Yeah, forever. Um the one when you just were talking about that, I was thinking about this, you know, because there's so many little teeny school districts. I went to like 97 of them when I ran and went and interviewed their superintendents. And I hadn't thought of because when you go to them, you think about the kids, you think about the families. But when you add that variable, especially I mean that was eight years ago now. Think of in the last eight years since I was sitting in front of them, what online and just the evolution of technology has done to them. I mean, at some point, someone at a level that's up in the state is gonna have to tackle that, right? That's it's one more pressure that has nothing to do with how good you are. It's just because they're probably one of the things that I went around, I'm like, I could hit a nine-iner from one superintendent to another's, you know, office in a lot of these places in Idaho. Like, why on earth do you have four districts like right here? And that was before technology. So it's just one more pressure. Uh, you know, I I told this story a minute ago, but we we we went went over to eastern Idaho and had a really good meeting. I thought it was gonna be productive on how to standardize school buildings and try to get you know districts working together just on buildings, right? And it started great, and like two hours in the meeting, it completely everyone collapsed. But man, that there's just a lot of pressure on education, and we're gonna have to, you know, at some point, necessity, dollars, pupils is gonna drive this thing to where it needs to go. But it's really hard to be proactive when you have these legacy systems in place and legacy exactly, but my kids went here and my, you know, we're we're pirates or we're whatever. Uh that's tough, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

It is tough. And uh I think you know, that that rapid acceleration of technology also playing into that the way you you just described. Um, hasn't Cash County figured that out though?

SPEAKER_03

Well, we did a little well, we've the consolidation piece we have. Yeah, you've got you've kept you kept your own kind of identity, right? Yeah. I I uh at least when I was over there, they kept bringing up Cash County as an example.

SPEAKER_00

Well in Minadoka County, so Cash County, I will tell you, my home county, at one point we had 44 school districts. Wait, what?

SPEAKER_01

What's the population?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think we've got 25,000 people right now. So this was this is our history.

SPEAKER_01

It's like two thousand how many kids okay, anyway, keep going.

SPEAKER_00

Well, back in the day it would have been a lot more kids, but but you know, and and so now we have a consolidated school district. Now we had to to do that, you had to make sure that every community had a seat on the school district uh board, which was uh very carefully negotiated and and and in Idaho Code, actually. Um in Minadoka County, they have consolidated also, and they have only one high school, so they've taken a little bit different model. Um, you know, when you go to get a school bond uh taken care of in Cajat County, the trick is that every school has to get something, you know. So there's some politics involved in all that.

SPEAKER_03

So um but but but but a lot could be learned from those two examples, right? Yeah, because there's a lot of places in Nighthole where that has not happened yet.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm telling you, you don't want to waste all that money on administration. Uh no, we're all gonna have to get smart and we're gonna have to be able to use the the technological tools to to maximize the dollar, there's no doubt about it. And I mean, just for education, like I said, you know, I mean, for my kids, the education that they got uh relatively cheap by getting online is incredible. Yeah, it's an incredible opportunity.

SPEAKER_01

Um there's a you talk about tech and you talk about dollars. There's a real, real anxiety with the things that people are saying online and how that plays out into the real world. I had an attorney actually recently, uh Pam Holand, who's an employment attorney, that came on to talk about the consequences of online and social media communication within the workplace, the liabilities employers have, the, the risk that employees um accept when they engage in even a group text, let alone Facebook or something like that. There, there's a national concern of people being debanked or de uh deplatformed within a financial institution if they say or do the wrong thing. And I know I I think you've kind of dabbed into this. Could you talk to me about this more? Because it's something that I know exists, where it's like, hey man, if you think the wrong thing and you think the really wrong thing, and the really right people find out, you're gonna have to hide your money under your mattress because no either no financial institution will take your money and operate with you, or they could freeze your accounts and just hold your money in in extreme cases.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, we've actually seen instances of this in Idaho. Um would you imagine? Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, first of all, try to imagine a life without having banking services. Imagine a life without being able to use uh electronic, you know, financial services, make not being able to buy anything online, not being able to use a debit card, you know, back into Town Square, no Amazon. All you got's uh, you know, some some coins. Um this is gonna save me some money. I think I want to be de-platformed.

SPEAKER_01

Baby, I'm sorry, no more Amazon.

Oversight Of Virtual Schools And Providers

SPEAKER_00

It could help, yeah. No. Oh my gosh. We've we've seen instances of it. I will tell you that um prior to a primary election, we saw a political party's bank account frozen in Idaho. A minor political party, albeit, but they were unable to make any expenditures towards that election because their bank account was frozen. And when I say frozen, it means their their money's still sitting there, but you can't get to it. Oh wow. You cannot, you cannot take it out, you cannot withdraw. They just say, Yeah, you're you're frozen for now. We can't, and we can't tell you why. Oh, and they can't do it.

SPEAKER_01

They weren't even declared domestic terrorists or anything, they just froze it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, they won't tell you why. They just say your money's held up and we can't let you have it. And so, you know, I had a bill, of course, it got it got passed, it became law in Idaho that uh large institutions. We're talking, we're not talking DL11s, we're not talking about the good old homegrown banks. They've not been a problem. I want to make that clear. These are the very large international banks. And what they have done over the years, and it's starting to ease up, is they'll develop what's called an ESG standard. Um, you know, uh they might have a philosophical view that they don't want to be wound up in businesses, for example, that manufacture our firearms. Let's say let's use that as an example. And so um, if they find out that you are somehow tied up with that particular business, you may all of a sudden not have a bank account or your your assets are frozen until they release them. Now, in the what was interesting is during the course of the legislation that I was carrying, um, one of the senator's mother's bank accounts got frozen.

unknown

What?

SPEAKER_00

Oh yes. And she was not able, so she she wrote a check, it bounced. And by the way, these are people with means. It wasn't like she didn't have the money in the account. And so they went, she was, I think, in her 80s, and so they went to the bank and said, Hey, why did you well, why didn't you honor this check? Well, we can't tell you. Oh, you know. So anyway, it it didn't take long for me to get the political support I needed in the Idaho State Senate to get this bill passed. But these are real things, these are really, really problems. ESG has reared its head in Idaho in other ways. Um, I've seen public contracts where um the public, you know, request for proposals put was put out, and the number one qualifying contractor was selected. It was an Idaho company, by the way, and then they were disqualified based on ESG standards because they were not deemed to be the most environmental friendly company. Wow. And then a company from out of state was selected because they were more environmental friendly, even though the public dollar paid more for that contract. Based on a subjective Yeah, based on, you know, the makeup of their board, the ESG standards. So I also passed a bill to outlaw that. So that won't be happening in Idaho anymore either.

SPEAKER_01

That's great. And ESG's um equity, so I can't remember what the acronym is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, environmental social governance standards that they they create to, you know, for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_01

So it's an arbitrary rating system that that is determined. Who what what's the governing body that that determines your ESG score?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it if it's the financial institution, it may be internal, somebody inside. And with regard to this public uh institution, it was just some ESG officer who had created a matrix that they were going to measure these contractors by. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

But just like look, if you apply to refinance your house and the appraisal comes in trash, at least you can throw some more information. You're like, hey, wait, wait, wait, because Billy down the street, like, no, but his house is small. Like, you can at least argue, is there any like appeal process for like, hey man, hang on, man, you gave me a two.

SPEAKER_00

Like, I'm not that terrible. I'm a bad guy, but I'm not that bad of a guy. The answer is no, but it's illegal now. Now, the other thing that was happening was when you take there are some investment firms who were investing basing on based on ESG standards, not their fiduciary duty to make sure that there's a return on the dollar. So even in the state's funds that we invest on behalf of the people of Idaho, there were concerns that there were instances where the ESG standards were used to invest, you know. So we're going to invest only in environmental companies, regardless of whether or not you get the best return on investment. So we put a stop to that too. So we also passed a bill that that's prohibited. So it's a crazy world, you know, sometimes. And so these ESG standards have there, there's a backing off in a lot of these large institutions because more and more states have said we're not going to allow this.

Consolidation, Efficiency, And Rural Districts

SPEAKER_03

So you've talked about passing a couple of bills right there. As the session starts, and um we had uh Lieutenant Governor on earlier and he kind of talked about kind of the process, right? You get bills that come from either people's ideas or something happened with one of their constituents and the process that goes through. Now that you're in leadership, um, talk to us about your opinion of that process and the number of bills. It's roughly about 300 new laws a year get passed. Yep. Um, talk about what your opinion is of the process and why it's good or things that you worry about.

SPEAKER_00

Well, um, you know, they call it making sausage. Uh it is uh a very interesting process. I'm trying to think what I could tell you. You know, from a leadership, from a from a leadership. I'm trying to figure out what I can tell you.

SPEAKER_01

I can't tell him that. Damn it.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I will tell you from a leadership standpoint, um, I'm very careful what I get involved with personally. Because uh there this is a political process. And when you put your name on a piece of legislation, uh you can target that legislation for political opponents. Yeah. And you know, I remember when I first got into leadership, Brent Hill was the president pro tem of the Senate. And I remember him one day saying to me, he never sponsors or put his name on a piece of legislation. I said, Really? Why? He said, Because it's always a hostage. Every piece of legislation he has his name on is always a hostage. And I've learned that the hard way. And uh yeah, you you might have your bill vetoed because you don't please the governor. You might have your bill hung up in the house because the house leadership knows that you have the power to do something on the Senate side and you're not doing it. And so your your piece of legislation becomes the hostage. And as we say, you know it's time to go home when hostages start hostages start to die. And you don't want your bill, if you really care about it, to be the hostage. So um I I have learned in that process to be very careful what I put my name on. Now, what I've been doing as best I can is to find a piece of legislation that both house house leaders and senate leaders, you know, can put their name on and carry through. And so last year, the bill that we just talked about, um uh the debank bill, Josh Tanner and I did together. So but there are some, you know, I'm still gonna have my name on a few bills.

SPEAKER_03

And you know, it it is interesting. One of the things that Brad when I interviewed him uh last week, he said with 300 going through, there's a lot of great legislation, thoughtful people really thinking through, hey, we want to make positive changes. And he says most of that doesn't get any, there's no fanfare, there's no reporting on it, no one really even kind of knows it goes through. And then there's a few of the sensational stuff that kind of gets all the all the press. But it is good to hear um that there are there's a lot of great lips. And I and I believe that because there's a lot of really thoughtful people that are trying to to to make our lives better, right? I mean, that's what it's all about.

Social Media Risks And Debanking

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I'll I'll make this pitch. I mean, when you talk about that 300 to 350, those 300 to 350 pieces that are passed, you would also look at the numbers. Um, there are probably 900 to 1,100 pieces drafted. Okay. And so if you think about the span of the legislative session being three months and 1,100-ish pieces drafted, that's a marathon. I mean, if you think about that many pieces of legislation for a legislator to kind of have to participate in in one way or another. Get up to speed on, understand the issues, understand the background. And and so what I always tell folks at home is if you are, you need to pay attention. We need, we need our constituents to be involved because if there's some area of their lives, you know, whether whatever you are, a mechanic, whatever, you need to have a focus on pieces of legislation that might affect you. And if you see something ugly coming down the line, you better call me. Because if a piece of legislation goes through a committee of folks that I trust and they hear it and they study it, and they say, Kelly, this is a good piece of legislation with do pass, send it the floor, I'll read it. If nobody's saying it's a bad piece of legislation, I don't see anything wrong with it, I might vote yes. I'm more most likely to vote yes. But every once in a while, if a piece of, you know, someone at home reads that legislation and says, Kelly, this one's terrible, and here's why it's gonna hurt me. And that happens periodically from someone at home. Boy, that's valuable. But otherwise, it's just this marathon. We need people to be watching what we're doing. We really, really do. It's it's such a uh a huge volume that that we need people to watch. It's it's such a big thing.

SPEAKER_03

A follow-up, yeah. As you've matured into leadership now and running the thing on the Senate side, uh, has your opinion changed of the process during that time? How much more wisdom do you have right now watching kind of things happen?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I wouldn't say I'm wise at all, but but um Oh, I don't know. I I I still have a very high esteem for the process. I mean, I'm really a proud American. I I mean I don't want to want to be cliche, but I mean, we really do have the very best system of government there is. Um, you know, I believe very much in the rule of law. Uh I met today with a guy that wants to rewrite our curriculum for our schools and really pound into the heads of our kids uh the founding and the writings that really set us going. I think we're missing out a little bit there in our education system. We've we've strayed, you know, we've spent the first 200 years of our education system really teaching people where we came from and we've we've strayed from that. Um, but I think we've got a great, great process. It's it's meant to be adversarial, it's meant to have tension, it's meant to be debated. Uh, I just try to encourage inside the legislature for us to recognize that and to have civility as we do it. And uh everyone who knows me in that Senate and they will tell you this. I preach one thing, and it is that reasonable minds can disagree. They hear me say it over and over and over that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're unreasonable, and it doesn't mean they're wicked, it doesn't mean they're whatever, right? You know, two reasonable people can disagree and they can be good people.

SPEAKER_03

It's so refreshing to hear that. Just hear you say that because I I do, you know, it's just it's policy, right? And see the world differently, and you're still a good person. And I think there's such a such a rush to demonize the other side in today's world so quickly.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Yep. Yeah, no, we've uh, you know, I had some good people to kind of rear me up in the Senate, and we, you know, I was told you don't question each other's intentions, you don't uh you know, we we we were taught to be civil, and I'm I stro we're struggling every day to make sure we maintain that. The Senate is a good place to to be. Really is. A lot of good people.

SPEAKER_03

How are how are how's the Senate different from the House? From your uh obviously it's a superior, but of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I think institutionally it's different. I think it I think it's kind of designed to be that way. Um what's weird about the Idaho Senate, of course, as opposed to the U.S. Senate, is we have the same number of terms. I mean, the founders really believed that the U.S. Senate should be shielded from the passions of the people. That's why they have six-year terms. We still have two-year terms here in Idaho. We're still always can't. We're not shielded from the passion of the people. Um, but the the Idaho Senate is a seniority-based system. And so uh it's much more that way. And as the pro tem, I've not tried to wield power to to favoritism. And meaning I don't have to, no one has to kiss my butt to get a position in the Idaho State Senate. I try to be very fair, I try to treat people with uh um respect based on their seniority, you know, if they've been around, they deserve a position. And uh that's important when you have a caucus like mine, which is very diverse. It's diverse in um our politics. We're all Republicans, but there's quite a variety of uh worldviews inside that Republican Party, as best I can say it. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_01

Um Governor Cox down in Utah is uh is growing famous by the day for his capacity to make like the most ridiculous, incredible social media clips that showcase, you know, like multiple governors. There was, did you see the one? Have you seen any of these? No, I got it. Okay, listen, there's one that he did with the governor of Colorado, I think, right before Thanksgiving. And they're both sitting there. I actually sent it to somebody at, you know, like in his camp, like, is this real? And hopefully I'll be interviewing him soon. It was like, oh yeah, it's real. So they're sitting there like, this holiday, when uh you ask your niece to pass the potatoes, and she passes not just the potatoes, but a serving of woke ideology. Take a breath. I'm just like, and don't like and they just kept going, or like your uncle's talking to you about how MAG is gonna save the world. Don't slit his throat. Like they just keep going.

SPEAKER_03

Spencer's one of my good friends. I love that guy. He's a good friend.

SPEAKER_01

I I think he's whoever his team is, they are crushing, like they're monsters.

SPEAKER_03

But you know what? It's it's authentic, man. Yes, it's in that guy's core, it's like, hey, I can I can disagree with you 100% on your policy, and I can still sit down with you and have a conversation. He he he's the champion of it, and he's doing a national program on civility. And I just I love that guy.

ESG Policies And Idaho Legislation

SPEAKER_01

It's it I love him. I just could not admire it more. I've also found out uh recently that there are a lot of bipartisan efforts, like openly bipartisan efforts going on right now. For instance, tomorrow night at uh on Tuesday at BSU, you have um uh Senator Treg Burnt and Senator Melissa Wintrow engaging the student populace, like, look, we are on opposite sides, but like we like each other. It's okay, we see the world differently. Do you think there that in an election year? And again, I know this is a tricky thing, but we have this national call for like, hey man, we gotta come back and be Americans together here. Like, this is just it's too much. That's also for some people that are very ideologically driven. That's a liability. Like, I can't, I'm not supposed to like the dams or the libs, like we're not supposed to. Like, how do you how do we balance this out so we in Idaho, you know, because we're not in Utah, right? In Idaho, continue working towards, hey, look, it's not doing it's it hasn't done our country great to be to become more and more and more polarized. But we also still have to, you know, elected officials want to win elections.

SPEAKER_00

Honestly, I I don't know. I mean, my I think my constituents in my district absolutely expect me to be decent. I really do. I love that. I do. I think they do. They're keeping you honest. And I've had I've had some ugly, I've had an ugly primary, and you know, I just stayed above the fray and I had people tell me, I think they expect me to be decent. I think they expect me to be strong. I mean, I don't think they expect me to be weak on on policy positions. I think they expect me to be absolutely clear and tough, but you don't have to be a jerk. Yeah, and and I think you can absolutely be just absolutely tough on policy and be kind. I just I don't I don't believe you have to, it's mutually exclusive. I don't believe it. I think you can actually be a good person and and stick to your guns. I don't believe you have to be a jerk.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I love and again, I don't I don't know what policies are, you know, that people run. I just everyone can disagree on policies. But man, like if we're showcasing horrendous communication behavior, one, you're never even going to be able to beat up the ideas. Like if you can't just be nice to we the populace wins when we beat up ideas, when the ideas get the hell smashed out of them and the best was like, oh, like last, like Rocky II, when they're both knocked out and like just like reach it and the like the last idea stands up and it's like, oh, you know, it's like that's what we have, right? Like we that's what we need from our legislators, right? That's what we need from our elected officials. Like, if we can't even just uh be in the same ring to beat up the ideas, then we the voters, we lose.

SPEAKER_00

We lose. You know what? I think part of what has helped me is practice and law in a small town because it is a small bar, right? There's only so many lawyers, but you gotta win. And you gotta under the legal ethics rules, they tell you you have to zealously advocate. That's the that's what a lawyer is supposed to do, zealously advocate. And you're your your clients paying you cash, right? They're not paying you cash to be a wussy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00

They want you to go win. You and and listen, I don't like to lose. I don't personally like to lose. I'm not gonna go to court and get my butt kicked. So, so when you go in there, um, you have to go in into that courtroom with a lawyer that you're gonna work with the rest of your life. And so you have to be able to be professional and win. And then the next day you're gonna be back in court with that same attorney. What a great analogy. I'm gonna use that.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, it's just because it is. You're you're you're you're you you could even be friends or see his family at the local diner in in the And let me tell you something.

SPEAKER_00

The next day, you're gonna need a favor from that guy. Yeah, right. I mean, you you're gonna say, Hey, I've got to go something with my kid. Can I continue the next hearing? And if you've hit him in the face too hard, yeah, being a jerk, he's gonna say, you know what? I'm sorry, we're not gonna be able to continue. But you still want to win. Oh, you and he does too. He does too. And he's got to. I mean, you've got to both go in. I got I had I had a I had a I had a cousin. This will be a big shock to you. I had a cousin who was a an attorney in my area, and I had uh he was opposed to me, and we were doing a divorce, you know. And boy, we hit each other in the mouth hard. And he did a great job, and we still love each other.

How Bills Move And Leadership Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_01

He's a great, great, great attorney. Yeah, man, that's a lot. I have I've had some pretty hot interviews recently myself, and uh one in particular got it was like two and a half hours long, and again, very good friends with this this gal. And people have been asking afterwards because I published and I thought about I'm like, should I publish this? You know, like should I even? I mean, we got pretty good high. I was having a couple drinks, like, and here we go. But at the end of the day, I I actually talked to a couple people about this and you know, double checked with her, like you still good with it. And it's like, you know what? We were just talking like people used to talk in the 90s. Like you could argue with somebody at the table and you could call them an idiot and you could go back and forth. And it's almost like people aren't they, they're not resilient enough with with emotions and relationships. It's like things got heated, that must have broken you. It's like, no, dude, like everybody used to argue this way. We just we we like lost the capacity to do that and we silo ourselves off, and so many of our interactions are online, so we got to be careful. It's like, no man, like we should be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree. And you have to, you know, you do I do set rules for myself and uh and with other senators, and even in our law firm, we set rules like if you're really, really mad, I give myself 24 hours. Yeah, you don't don't start typing, right? You know, don't make the phone call. And uh I always tell senators the same thing, let's just wait your 24 hours before you respond to that. What sage advice, right? Oh, it is great advice because you cool off and you'll get a better argument and you'll get a better response, and you can you can say, Hey, let's push restart or whatever you got to do.

SPEAKER_03

But and then don't you think that the the ability over time, because you know, you you you grow and mature and you learn, you have to have those times when you do lose it and and and and you're like you you cross that professionalism line. Let's talk to Spencer about this, right? That's what you're talking about, is how do we how do we how do we have a a vibrant discussion about whatever we're discussing or my position or whatever? But you know when you kind of go past that. Oh, yeah. And then once you do, it's hard, it's hard to get back to that without power. And I think you learn that over time and you can feel in yourself, and it's probably different for all of us, like, hey, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna grow, find my blind spot, find my weakness, try to turn it into a strength. Because if I can emotionally stay grounded, I'm better off.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. And I always feel like an idiot when I do that anyway. One of the things that was told to me when I got the Senate was they said, friends come and go, but your enemies accumulate. That's what I was told about the Senate. Your friends will come and go, but your enemies will accumulate. And there, there's some truth to that, you know. Well, so I've tried to make sure I don't accumulate too many enemies and I try to be friends. You get a lot. Listen, it's just it's just like practicing in court because the next day I'm gonna need somebody's vote in that Senate. And so you try not to burn your you know, your your enemy to the ground on one thing, and then you know, the next year, even you're gonna need somebody's help, even if it's an it might be a Democrat. You never know whose help you're gonna need.

SPEAKER_03

You know, a lot of the things you're saying, I become I don't know, really, really good friends with Senator Rish. Really good. And I moved to Quna, we ranch together. I talk to him a lot multiple times a week, mostly just about ranching and and hay and how we lost money or we're not irrigating right or something. We do cattle together. But I have learned so much, a lot of what you were saying today in this podcast is like that sounds like Jim Rish. I mean, it's just years of doing it and understanding the difference between what winning means, probably defining what it means, and understanding the longevity of life and relationships. And it probably comes from bad experiences, wisdom comes from bad experiences, bad experiences happen because of lack of wisdom. And anyway, you're a you're uh you're a smart guy, man. I don't know. I could sit and listen to you all day because we so you sound a lot like Jim Rish as I'm sitting here going, this is this is uh this is him talking about uh because we've had a lot of discussions clearly about what's going on at DC and what does he think of him or her or whatever. And and he just calmly kind of talks through it, and every time I'm like, Yeah, I like Jim Rish. I get that. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. Yeah, he's a good guy. Yeah. Um if I may ask, and this is probably a little personal. Um to be in this game as long as you have and engage at the level you have, you likely have to be really good at losing and coming back the next day, not again emotional and frustrated. I can tolerate, like, I'm really good at losing. I'm good at stinking at things for a long time and continuing going forward, but I only have myself to answer to, right? In your position, you might lose and then get a call from somebody that something was really important and you knew that. It's not, it's not like you were naive to that, but you're like, listen, yeah, like we didn't get it this time, but like I'm gonna try for next time. And the impulsivity and frustration and passion that your constituents feel, it's like, no, like we wanted it done this time. You may not be elected. In fact, I'm gonna make sure you don't get elected. And it's like, you know, how how is it that you've been able to navigate that, or do you have wisdom around, like, look, this is how you lose, especially when your team is behind you and they can't do anything about it. And, you know, your loss takes their passion and and their project down too.

SPEAKER_00

Boy, I don't know how to answer you, but I I think what I've learned is what I've already told you is you don't burn those bridges because you're gonna need to cross that that river again.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I I've learned that over and over and over again. I mean, I could tell you stories, um that I probably won't tell you on the radio. But but the truth is that I have been in situations where I have seen bridges burnt that I needed later. And you you you you you're gonna have to just I told somebody today, so I had somebody call me today and say, What are you doing? I said, Well, I took my beating yesterday and I'm licking my wounds today and I'm going back to work. This is what you do. Yeah, I mean, who who who wakes up every day thinking that everything's gonna go your way?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, why do you think that's gonna happen? My wife always tells me, you know, if you believe that you're gonna be happy every day, you're fooling yourself. If you could get 50, she says, if you can get 50% of the time that you're happy, you're doing pretty darn good.

SPEAKER_03

I'm gonna follow up with you. What's your process for self-reflection? Because I do believe as I get older, it is the losses that you learn. I think the wins, we we we don't learn as much when we win as when we lose or have troubles or struggles. What's party what's your what's your self-reflection pro process? What what is there is there is there some magic there that you can share with us?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know that there is. I'm trying to think, you know. I've never been asked some of these these questions. Um boy. I don't know if I have anything for you, Tommy. I mean, I think what I I don't know if you when you say process.

Civility, Disagreement, And Senate Culture

SPEAKER_03

Well, I let's say you have that bad day, or you just I mean what what does Kelly do? I think God gave us circadian rhythms because we got a fresh start. I honestly, I I honestly tell my kids, or whoever asks me, I'm like, thank heavens that we have the next morning and we can get up and we go, we got one more day, and I get to get up and go attack this thing again. But for me, I I try to reflect at night or or even in the morning. Sometimes I'm just burnt, but I try to have some time where I'm like, okay, what did I learn? What what do I do? What what what goes through your mind? Because I'm sure someone like you that's been in the law, you're in a small community where you had to kind of process, and now you're in a legislature where there could be a lot of frustrations that get you down. But what what are some of the maybe it maybe it's not reflections, but what are some of the mantras that that go through your mind as you get ready for that next day?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'll tell you, I I find myself waking up with solutions. I don't know why that is, but when I wake up, my brain's running. And and I have a hard time going to sleep too. I think a lot of people are that way when you're really, really stewing on something. But but I wake up and I'm I'm a I know what I'm gonna do. But I think, you know, we often talk about these revelatory moments, and I really do, but I'm I'm telling you, I think when you uh get up early and you know, I think there's a voice talking to you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. But I I I I it's gonna get corny, but man, I there's like for me that's our sacred like 15 minutes of morning where if I don't sit down, you know, have my prayer, look at my like my light. I've got because I've got some issues in the way I see the world sometimes. And so I have to look at my little mantras there and kind of reflect on the day. And I and I promise you, that's where it all comes to me. And I think there is a process. I think that's what God intends us to do.

SPEAKER_00

I will also tell you, I believe in the Sabbath day. Okay. I think people really ought to think about this because what I do, and and this is why I think it's valuable to me, is when you give yourself permission one day a week to turn your brain off on other stuff, it's pretty powerful. Because otherwise I think you'll wear yourself right out. Yeah. And so I have always, even since when I was in college, um, I've told myself there's one day a week that I'm not going to go push myself. Because I run pretty hard. And if I can just I take that one day and I'm like, it's like giving myself permission. I don't know how to say it, but that one day I say, I will not worry myself with not working or not.

SPEAKER_03

Don't you think, Kelly? Some of it's the some of it's the actual task, and some of it's just intellectually saying, I'm gonna take I'm gonna let myself just it is.

SPEAKER_00

I'm giving myself permission not to work, not to whatever. And that that is uh that's a restart that you need in your life. I don't care whether you're religious or not. Yeah, telling you to do it.

SPEAKER_01

I've been trying to do this for some time. It is so gotta give yourself a break. Like it is so, and my wife and I are both just dogs with bones, man. We're like just grinding our teeth, and that it's really difficult, especially the partner. Like, so a couple months ago, I'm like, all right, Sunday, I like I'm not getting out of sweats, I'm not leaving this couch. I started cooking the day before. I was like, I'm not even cooking. Okay, I'm gonna have, you know, an egg dish in the fridge, I'm gonna have cold cuts, we got apples, everybody got a banana, everybody likes bananas. Okay, great. Here we go. So, like me and my boys, I have three boys. I'm like, I'm not leaving, like, we are watching every Pixar movie. I'm gonna cry like an idiot all day long, all day. Right. And we jump on board with it. The boys are all in. They're like, this is great, dad. I'm like, I know, son, it's awesome. But my poor wife, she just can't, she couldn't settle into it. So she's like cleaning the humidifiers, cheese bacon every round of muffin you can, and she's I can see her getting more and more. And this is Sunday, and more and more and more exhausted. So then I feel horrible because you know, back in the sweats, I'm the eating the egg dish on the couch. It's like I'm I'm like, honey, come sit down. She's like, I can't, I can't, because I gotta go do these things.

SPEAKER_00

And she wasn't even being mean, it's just like you can't, it's so hard to turn on with like type A crazies, just but what I try to do is I try to find other things that I would not ordinarily give myself the permission to do that I want to do that are that are very productive.

SPEAKER_01

Like bow and arrows, like what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00

Well, like I'm I'm writing, I I'm writing a little book, you know, I'm doing other things that I want to do that I would not normally do because I don't have because to me it's more of a luxury that I'm doing with my no pinball.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, but writing, that's fine. Yeah, well, I was thinking like real dumb things. I mean you're like you're like okay, I'm gonna do like a pseudo-dumb thing. I'm gonna just write, I'm just gonna write a book. I watch the great American novel, but I'm just saying a great zombie book.

SPEAKER_00

I'm a nerd. What can I tell you? No, I'll watch a Western. I love Westerns. I'll you know, I'll watch TV, whatever.

SPEAKER_01

What do you think of the Neo Westerns? Like uh with the uh like uh No Country for Old Men. Oh, I've never seen it. Oh, it's fantastic. Um uh or uh there are uh there are just there's a new version of okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um like I watched the new version at Old or uh True Grit. I mean that's too too old.

Losing, Bridges, And Long-Game Politics

SPEAKER_01

Okay, but how about this? Uh uh Big Lebowski. Like there's an argument that that is very much like a neo-western where it's like, well, or or Mandalorian. Okay, the Mandalorian. Okay, so you have you have people of competence navigating this complex world. Um, that you know, and like you have this heroic kind of figure. I think that kind of stuff's so cool.

SPEAKER_03

Give give me the give me the spaghetti web, the originals, man. Uh I love, yeah, I love those terms. I, you know, the outlaw Josie Wells.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I've got kids who like the Western, so it's kind of a place where we, you know, hang out.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, dude. And the uh the Mandaloren series just so fantastic. Yeah. I'm again, I've never been. I appreciate those, I think, in particular, because I've never like my manner of working through the world is kind of in parallel, not with like the cool helmets and stuff and guns, just like laser guns. But just like I have a I have skill sets and I either survive in the world or I don't. I've never been employed by people, I've never worked with, I've never, none of that. So it's like Matt just appears with a skill set, and like this either gets him through the day or it doesn't. And yeah, I don't know. I just I have an appreciation of it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'll try to find like a series that the whole family will like tune into. Like we watched, I think it was called Hunting Hitler or something like that you know, we'll find something in Argentina and stuff?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's really intense. That's super cool. Yeah, but I've never heard of this. I want that. Uh the argument goes that Hitler actually escaped and like the Mossad is like was out to get him.

SPEAKER_00

Now you're gonna watch it and say it's stupid, but I have to do that. I'm not gonna be telling you.

SPEAKER_03

I went on my mission to Brazil. Okay, and I'm in southern Brazil, could achieve a mission, but I I go to a place called Blumenau, it's a city that I get transferred to, and I show up and they the the language is German. Tons of different, it's right next, like the architecture's German, Thailand. Speaks German as a primary language, and I'm like, ah what's happening here? Something's going on.

SPEAKER_01

So that's where they all went. Did you learn Portuguese? And he shows up to the German-speaking town.

SPEAKER_03

He's like, dang it, somebody you missed to the homework. It it uh that's where they went. That's where that's where they went. A lot of them went down there. Hey, Kelly, listen, you've been very kind for spending this time with us. Um, again, thank you very, very much for what you do, your leadership. It's great. I hope people listen to this get to know you better because uh I appreciate the heck out of you. Matt, thanks for this. This is our last one for the month. Thank you for being such a fabulous co-host. Um, for people listening, because we're kind of this is the last one, the ranch podcast. The ranch podcast. Every single thing you want to know about all this stuff, it's it's it's wonderful. I'm uh I'm a faithful listener, and and I think you can learn a lot about local government, state government, everything. So thank you, Matt. Thank you for the interview. Thank you, Kelly. Kelly, last word from you.

SPEAKER_00

Um, you know, please stay tuned. And I like I said, if you're if you're interested in government, please watch the Idaho legislature. And when you see something coming down the pike you don't think is right, call your legislator. And if you see me some doing something that's not right, keep me on the right path, call me. Let me let me know what I need to do better.

SPEAKER_03

You are a good dude, man. Oh, I'm not.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, you are. Thanks very much. Thank you very much.