Treasure Valley Traffic Explained - The Future of Idaho Transportation | Ever Onward - Ep. 115

Idaho is one of the fastest-growing states in America, and the Treasure Valley is at the center of that growth. With hundreds of thousands of new residents expected in the coming decades, one big question is on everyone’s mind:

How will Idaho keep up with the traffic, infrastructure, and transportation demand?

On this episode of the Ever Onward Podcast, Tommy Ahlquist and Garrett Lofto sit down with Jason Brinkman, ITD Division Administrator and District 3 Engineer for the Idaho Transportation Department, and Mollie McCarty, Chief External Affairs Officer at ITD.

They break down what’s really happening behind the scenes as Idaho prepares for massive population growth — from highway expansion and congestion planning to the funding strategies and policies that will shape the future of transportation across the state.

The conversation dives into:

• Why the Treasure Valley population has doubled in 25 years
• How ITD plans highways 20–30 years before they’re built
• The real story behind GARVEE bonds and major infrastructure funding
• How projects like Highway 16 and I-84 improvements come together
• Why right-of-way, land costs, and planning timelines matter so much
• How transportation investment improves safety and saves lives
• What the business community can do to help keep Idaho moving

With Idaho expected to add another 500,000 people in the coming decades, the decisions made today will shape the future of the state’s economy, safety, and quality of life.

If you live, work, or run a business in Idaho — this is a conversation you don’t want to miss.

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Transcript

Meet Jason And Molly

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Today on the Ever Onward Podcast, Garrett Lofto, my co-host and I will be interviewing uh Jason Breekman and Molly McCarty. Jason is the District 3 engineer. He has been in his current role for a few years and leads up all of uh District 3 for the Idaho Transportation Department. That encompasses all of South Idaho, Southwest Idaho, and there is a lot going on. Jason is a tremendous leader, will be leading us through all the growth that we're experiencing down in the Southwest Idaho and in the Treasure Valley, and we're very excited to have him on today. With Jason is Molly McCarty. She is the Chief of External Affairs Officer at ITD. She's been with him for 27 years. She has tremendous experience on all things ITD, bonding, the way things have been paid for, and a tremendous experience that she's going to bring to the podcast today as we talk about the Idaho Transportation Department as it relates to growth in Idaho. Our guests today, again, are Jason Brinkman and Molly McCarty. Well, welcome Jason and Molly. We'll do formal introductions before the podcast, but um but uh we just get started right here. So uh thank you for coming on. This is our this little our month on transportation with Garrett and I, and uh we are excited to hear all things ITD. Beyond excited, actually. So always happy to talk about it. No, it's great. Um you know part of our effort with Keep Idaho Moving is just getting people together and talking, and it's been so awesome just to already start having conversations and hearing what you're up to. And the whole idea behind it is uh how can we be helpful as a business community? Um and so uh we thought this would be a good time as we kind of launched Keep Idaho Moving as having you guys on and talking about ITD. But before we get there, can you tell us each a little bit about yourselves and how you got into the transportation world and how long you've been doing it, kind of where you're from?

SPEAKER_06 2:00

Absolutely. Yeah, I'm Jason Brinkman. I'm currently the district engineer for ITD's third district in southwest Idaho. So we cover all things transportation related to the state highway system from north of New Meadows to Nevada and from Oregon to Glens Ferry. So it's about a 10-county area, it's about half of the state's population, and it's uh certainly an exciting place to be in the world right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Love that word. Just a little bit of growth right now, Jason.

SPEAKER_06 2:32

Yeah, I think uh at least as you know, Idaho goes, we're the the tip of the spear on the on the growth front for sure. I've uh I'm a 26, 27-year veteran of the transportation department. I've spent my career with ITD and uh really worked in in everything we do, which uh you know a lot of people don't know all the aspects of what it takes to run a highway system, but uh you know, planning, traffic, design, construction, uh even the guys that plow the roads. So uh it's been uh been an exciting journey and uh we're we're excited about everything that's ahead of us.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

What roles have you had over that over your career um leading up to your current role, which is uh really critical as far as planning goes. But uh tell us what you what you've done up to now.

SPEAKER_06 3:18

Absolutely. I uh I started with the department in a rotational engineering program. Uh great opportunity to learn everything about what ITD does and and what uh engineers do for transportation. And then I've uh I've been fortunate to have some you know somewhat unique and uh and entertaining positions. I managed the uh Connecting Idaho Garvey bonding program uh early in its instantiation. Uh so did about four years of that. Uh I've worked in some of our right-of-way and data systems. I've done a lot of our uh design and construction work, uh, and of course now I'm the district engineer. So uh kind of all aspects of what it takes to plan and design and build roads and then to to move them into the operations front. Did you grow up in Idaho? I didn't. I'm uh I'm a South Dakota native.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

Uh oh, I could hear it in the Dakota. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:17

When I pulled the when I pulled the Now you can do it. Yes. So yeah, I uh I spent uh 22 years there and then uh been in Idaho ever since. Where in South Dakota? Yeah, where uh Eastern South Dakota Watertown.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

So uh only because I asked because that's where all the pheasants still are, and then we go back there a lot.

SPEAKER_06 4:38

So yes, I uh I took that for granted growing up. Uh that was uh that was something that we saw every day almost.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Yeah. One of my boys lived in Aberdeen for the past few years, just loved it. Yes, yeah, nice place for sure. Great place.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

Yes, nice people too. That's great. Molly.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Well, I have a communications background, and so that's what brought me to the transportation department. I came there in 1998 thinking, oh, I'll just be here for a little while doing communication work for this department. And here I am 27 years later, still, you know, just finding so much to learn and so much to do. So I worked in communications for about 10 years, doing a lot of work with significant projects in the Southwest Idaho region. And then in 2008, I was asked to be the governmental affairs manager. So at that time, I began working a lot in the policy arena and working with legislators also on federal issues, but primarily my work was in state issues and working with our legislature. So a lot of work in transportation investment and understanding what the needs are. And uh, and then about three, a little over three years ago, our current director, Scott Stokes, became our director, and he asked me to serve on the executive team as the chief external affairs officer. So I'm still working in communications, I'm in the policy arena. I'm also working somewhat in the highway safety arena. We have a team, the Office of Highway Safety, and they work on behavioral issues. So when you see those campaigns out there on impaired driving, seatbelt usage, that kind of thing. We also do statistics, crash statistics for the entire state, working with our law enforcement partners. And so we we monitor that, and that's information that we're able so someone like Jason will use the data that we collect to hopefully make the best decisions we can with our resources.

Funding Myths And Garvee Lessons

SPEAKER_04 6:37

As you're going off, I fascinating because I could ask you 10 questions on every little topic you just hit. That's really cool. It's gonna be great. And are are you from here?

SPEAKER_00 6:46

I'm not. I was uh my early childhood was in Boulder, Colorado, outside of Denver, and then I moved to Bellevue, Washington, the east side of Seattle, and stayed there through my college education. I've just kind of been around and uh came to Idaho in 1990. Again, thought, oh, this will be a stop. But as you hear for so many people who, particularly Boise, you come to this area, and I don't know, we just don't leave.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

So that's such a common story. It's like, and then there's usually one person that comes and the next family member comes, and the next family member comes, and then it's like pretty soon everyone's here. That's great. Yes. Well, thank you, thank you very much uh for being here. Um at as a launching point, um, one of the things that I wanted to talk about is just Garrett, in our first our first uh episode we did together, we talked about just this explosive growth. Um, and I tried to go back and look at what the projections were and then how we blew by them. But if you think both of you have been there for longer than 25 years at ITD, I think no one saw we we we all we I mean if you if you were here since the 90s, like we all have been, you you knew how special it was, right? But but there were there were some things that you just didn't know. I mean, we I remember Garrett, we were on all these boards talking about talent pipeline. Remember that? Where are all the people gonna come? How are we gonna keep our kids here and how are we gonna have enough high-paying jobs? Well, it turns out the talent pipeline was never been a problem because everyone's moving here until our affordability became an issue. But yeah, but um this has been explosive. Talk a little bit about how um you do your best to do projections, but when something like this happens, um what that does to modeling and kind of you know, we're just ahead of where we thought we'd be. And and do you see it slowing down or just uh let's use that as a launching point where where we're where we find ourselves?

SPEAKER_06 8:32

Well, that's uh that's great, and that's a really big topic for us for sure. Um we have a lot of partners in the planning process. You know, none of that is done in isolation. The the transportation network, the city and and county planning and businesses and things are all very interrelated. And so we we work with a series of partners in local government and with our compass community planning association and others to do that type of planning work. We're fundamentally starting with the the forecasts and the projections that uh cities and local unit governments make about their own planning and zoning and what kind of growth they can support. And we're rolling all of that up into a regional and even statewide level. We update those numbers formally, you know, at least every five years. We do uh do the transportation planning in kind of five-year buckets. And every time we've done that in my career here, we kind of look at that number and we say, Yeah, can that be real? Uh, you know, is it is it really gonna be that? And it it doesn't matter what your level is at, that number always kind of shocks you. But for a little perspective on that, uh when I started with ITD, the the 10 county population, so the Southwest district that I'm currently responsible for, it had just crossed over a half a million people. So 1999, 2000, you know, there was half a million people in southwest Idaho. State was you know 1.2, 1.3 at the time. We crossed in in mid-2024, this 10-county area crossed a million people. And uh Idaho made news because it hit two million at the time. So Southwest Idaho doubled in that 24, 25 year period. And all of the forecasts that we're putting together, the the current 2050 model calls for another half million people by 2050. So that same you know growth rate is you know set to perpetuate itself for the foreseeable future. That's quite a challenge, and there's a lot that we have to take into account with that. But uh all things that you know have led to our success and our our growth have uh certainly been showing us that that's gonna continue. So we we keep looking at that number and saying, Gow, can that be real? And you know, we've we've yet to be proven wrong. It it's it's real, it's coming, and uh, and we do well to plan for it. So it's great.

How ITD Prioritizes Projects

SPEAKER_00 10:58

I would just add from the policy arena that um, you know, in the old days it was all this discussion about the need. I mean, I had files and files and files of all this, you know, information and data that was articulating the need. Uh you know, we had the Garvey program, as you're aware, and that program was producing some over a billion dollars worth of very big capacity projects. So I think some people were looking at that and thinking, oh, we're okay. We've you know, we're funded okay. You know, they didn't understand the limitations of the program. They didn't understand that that all has to be paid back over, you know, nearly 20 years. And so it was really a challenge at that time. And then I flash forward to where we are today, and it's night and day. We do legislative outreach meetings every year. Uh, just in December, we did our last one where we go around the state, and I love to just kind of reflect on how those meetings have changed every year. Plus, of course, we're working directly with our constituents, and everywhere we go, you know, the comment is we are concerned about congestion. You know, back in the the old days when I was beginning this work, people weren't really necessarily seeing it as a problem. And so, you know, unless they were in the Treasure Valley, um, and even that was questionable at the time, honestly. So it's it's such a night and day experience for me to where we are today. And everywhere we go, people are saying, we're very concerned about congestion, we're very concerned about safety. Our communities, you know, need these modernizations for us to be successful. That's what we're hearing everywhere we go today.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

So it's becoming a much more common message, Molly, is what you're saying. And and I I think we do have to say and acknowledge, thank you for the work. We were talking earlier, growth is the toughest thing that we do in business. It's trying to manage growth. And what you all are having to manage is absolutely incredible. So thank you for what you have done. Because if we would have sat idle over the past 10, 20 years, uh you you can't picture that, right? But that just kind of shows why we can't sit idle today, because Jason, you just talked about that extra half a million people. And so I guess what what are the steps that we have to take? You know, representing the business community, um, you know, where can we help along the way?

SPEAKER_06 13:21

That's a great question, and uh it's one we put a lot of thought into. Um I guess kind of to frame that up, let me maybe give you a little bit about how we prioritize our resources because while the planning and the growth is top of mind always, uh in our day job, we also have to maintain the system we currently have. And so, you know, hasn't been a lot of snow to plow this winter, but I've got to have uh a crew of the side. Well, this is this is uh unprecedented as far as there's a lot of salt sitting around, right? There's uh there's quite a bit left over this year, absolutely. So but you know, we we've been fortunate this winter, we've been able to go, you know, patch some potholes and fix some guardrail and replace some signs, but I um you know I've got to have a crew big enough to plow the entire state highway system. We we keep all of the pavements sealed and then restored and bridges you know repaired and replaced. And that that's really the first thing we have to prioritize is keeping the system that we already have in good repair. And second, we we have plans and are under construction on things that are expanding the existing system. So that's you know, widening, adding lanes to existing arterial highways or replacing interchanges with new bigger ones, uh upgrading intersections for for safety or signalization. And we've got a long list of those type of projects to do. And then then we get to you know, what do we need for for the growth and what are we going to look like in 25 years and and how do we plan for that today? And so we we really have to start from you know keeping the system operated and in good shape and uh and the roads plowed if it does snow. Uh, and then we we get to move into you know the expansion and eventually the planning arena. So so it's kind of our um the last thing we get to, but you know, top of mind in terms of uh our biggest challenge.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Well, and they're the they're by far the most costly of the projects to do as well, the safety and capacity ones.

The Right Of Way Challenge

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Yeah, and and I'm just sitting here as I'm listening to you, Jason, thinking, you know, with all your priorities and what you have, I mean, it is the day-to-day. Same thing with I mean, think about our business. Same thing. You got day-to-day, well, what are we doing today, but how are we gonna grow? But but the one factor with growth and for what you have to deal with is right-away. So it it you think about what it costs today, what it's gonna cost in five and ten years, and getting ahead of that, and that's gotta be a tremendous uh consideration as you go through this of how how do we how do we use existing resources, plan far enough ahead, try to get dollars for right-away. Talk about the importance of right-of-way, and you've seen it, you just brought up right-of-way um on on existing roads, but but where does that fit in the in the planning?

SPEAKER_06 16:13

Yeah, that's a great question. And it's um it's a part, frankly, that a lot of people forget about. Uh we do have to have you know the property, the space to build roads, and expanded roads almost always require addition of uh extra property on to do that. We we do the best when our planning processes are are forward-looking and anticipate right-of-way coming. And you know, the that process includes the preservation of corridors, so the identification of where roads will be in the future, how wide they might need to be. Um even if we aren't buying the property today, you know, getting the right setbacks in place so that we're not, you know, buying and removing houses or or buildings when we do get there. Uh but that's a major challenge because you know, sometimes those are improvements that might be, you know, 10 or 20 years in the future.

SPEAKER_05 17:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 17:07

And so uh it's a delicate balance. Uh, you know, we certainly have benefited by buying some property at you know the right times, but you know, we've got much more to go, and and basically all of these projects take you know significant right-of-way acquisition.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

So what's the average time for that? You know, when it comes down to it, we're talking five, ten, twenty years. If we're talking about a large project, um you know, building a new highway. We talked about a southern alternative route. You start looking at something that would go around the Treasure Valley at the bottom end. Is that a 20-year journey? Is that a 30-year journey?

SPEAKER_06 17:47

Is it a it certainly it certainly can be on that time horizon? So let me uh maybe give you an example of one that probably gives you those time frames pretty accurately. The extension of Highway 16 between NAMP and Meridian uh used to end at State Street, you know, and ran from Emmett to State Street. We started planning that about 20 years ago today. And that process starts in the planning and the environmental arena. So we do a large environmental study, a lot of public involvement, uh meeting with property owners and affected stakeholders. And that environmental process takes a few years up at the front of that. Then you can get into things like right-of-way acquisition, a detailed design. Uh, so then we'll actually produce our plan sets and specifications and bid packages. You in some cases are waiting for the funding to come through on that, and that project's been phased in over time. So, you know, we're now into about the last year of what's been a three, four-year construction period. And so by the time we hit opening day here, a year from now, uh, we'll have been about 20 years in the process of building that seven miles of new freeway. That's uh that's a long time in our day-to-day lives. That's pretty quick as highways go. So when you're looking at a major initiative like that with that big environmental process with the right-of-way acquisition and all that major construction, uh 20 years is doing okay, actually.

Highway 16: A 20-Year Case Study

SPEAKER_04 19:20

I'm sitting here laughing because my my dad still works here, he's almost 80 and he's just a he's a grinder. But he has this saying because he's on the construction side for us, right? And all oftentimes the leasing guys or me, I'll go to him and I'll say, I'll get all upset about a schedule. And it's like, you don't understand schedules. And he puts his hands out like this. He's like, they change like this, they don't change like that. And I'm just sitting here thinking about the front end of this, why it's so important, because you're probably gonna have by the time you start it's approved, right-of-way acquisition, design, waiting for funding. I mean, that's probably not gonna change a lot over time, right? Because it just it has to happen. So I think it even makes it more important on the front end, because if you end up spending 10, 15, 20 years up here, you're you're just this thing goes like this. It doesn't, it doesn't condense that schedule, right? Um right.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

It really is a balance. We hear people frequently saying, well, why don't you just buy all the property you could possibly need? You know, with your limited resources, just buy it up because it's only going to go up in cost. So this we this is a no-brainer. Why don't you do this? And as you can see, it it's really a challenge. And and and if we don't have any way of knowing if that project will ever be funded, you know, we have to be very careful about that. I mean, you're you're impacting people's lives, and so it's it really is a balance.

SPEAKER_04 20:44

Yeah. Is it safe to I'm making a brand assumption here? This may Jason, you may just say you're dumb when I say this, though. But the sooner you get consensus on at least some sort of a plan, the better, I would think. I I would I would just it's gotta help everybody, right? Yeah, whatever that might be. How how quickly can you study it out as a community? Plan. I mean, that part of it can be done relatively, and I think that's where the business community, where Garrett Garrett and I are talking, how can we be helpful? Are there studies we can help pay for? Are there matching funds we can help on the front end? Because um the the sooner you know, I guess then the better you know, even though there's all these barriers, right?

SPEAKER_06 21:23

No, that's a great point. And that you know, that really comes into how we manage the planning process. You can't build what you didn't plan, um, and you don't want to plan what you can't afford. And so we're always trying to find that balance between having enough in the hopper that you know we can move forward when funding allows and can meet the need, but not you know, being out over our skis either and and planning things that are that are never coming. So we have a number of strategies we look for to do that. You know, certainly the the partnerships and collaborations, both with our local units of government. And you know, with the business community and things are part of that. We also will you know do things like applying for grants and other things that'll help us fund that planning level and you know demonstrate the need, move us into a better position to build things down the road. So part of that planning process helps us quantify the need so that we can make the case for construction funding. And that's uh that's important to start at the right time to meet those long turnaround windows because it it is really hard to ever you know shorten that very much. You just you have to start early enough, is essentially the the takeaway.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

What what are the triggers that that allow you to, you know, we talked about consensus, and I'm taking a guess that it's not a full consensus. There's always some people who are sure who are you know against something, but at the end of the day, what are the triggers that actually say, okay, this is the project we're moving forward on?

Planning, Consensus, And Grants

SPEAKER_06 22:56

Well, project planning is complex, and uh, you know, I've mentioned some of our local coordination on that. Uh, you know, we need to integrate with the city, county, regional plans. Uh, we we put highways and roadways where the communities agreed that they go. And that's a process. Uh they're they're taking a lot of things into account and and things we don't always think about in where you would put a road, like you know, where can you extend a sewer or or get water or other services to, where, where's their power? Uh so there all of that gets integrated at the city and the county level with their planning and zoning. And then, you know, we're using things like sophisticated traffic models through our partners at Compass to model then how the traffic responds to that. And so there's large uh complex models that we're continuously updating that show us, you know, not just where people are driving today, but you know, if we extrapolate that into the future, where they're gonna be in the in the future. And the the types of facilities we need follow from that. So if I have you know 5,000 cars a day, that's a local street, or or 10,000, that's a collector. If I've got you know 40 or 50 or 150,000, that's a freeway, and I have to plan accordingly. And so we we build that consensus a day at a time. It's uh it's an ongoing process through local planning and their comprehensive plans, through the planning and zoning and population forecasts that they make, and then rolling all that up, feeding that into the transportation model, and out the back end we take, you know, what kind of facility is going to be needed to respond to that level of traffic.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

And I would take it up a level. I, you know, when you ask that question, what can the business community do? I would say stay in the conversation, do these things exactly like what you're doing today, and be in that conversation, make sure that they know what your concerns are and what you think is important for the business community. Think about some of those grassroots uh opportunities, working with community leaders and finding ways to keep this conversation going and just making sure that the policymakers know what your interests are. I think they have a very challenging situation in in the future. And uh, you know, they're going to be looking at user fees versus non-user fees for transportation, I believe, based on the situation we're in right now with the budget challenges. And that's very difficult for legislators if they do feel that there is a need to look at user fees in the future. That's a tax increase. That's very, uh in a state like ours to see those things happen. And so they need a lot of support. They need to really be connected with their communities and know that this is what their communities really want them to do for them to make, I think, the tough decisions that are ahead for them with uh funding transportation.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

I'm gonna ask a loaded question. It's probably a really bad question, but see if you answer it. So you got legislators that are always they're always being elected. I mean, in our state, whether you're in the Senate or the House, it's every two years. Lots of turnover. Tons of turnover. Um I'm thinking about our local jurisdictions. We've we've got really great leadership, but but but it turns over. I mean, you just have to be around for a while, and there's just big changes in in Caldwell and Ampa, I'm thinking of right now. Uh you know, city councils turn over um quickly because of you know the the turns of the tides, and you know, we want development, we don't want development, we want this, we don't want that. So there's change, and that's that's the people speaking. That's being in a republic where people can vote their their way. You've got um counties that that change some. Um even within I I think in the competitive environment of employment right now, I think the private sector steals from the public sector a lot. So there's turnover there.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

We're here to tell you they do.

SPEAKER_04 27:09

Yep. So I'm just thinking of all the turnover, and when we're sitting with a couple people that have been here a long time, um how how does a community like ours keep kind of our North Star during decades of a lot of changing parts, right? Um, and you guys have seen it because you've been at ITD for so long. But any any tricks or tips or what we should be thinking of as a community to try to have um some cohesion? Because it's a little different. Like you've been at Simplot 34 years. The Simplot family has been there forever. They're gonna be there. You look you look at Scott, who's still there every day, right? So you kind of have this continuity of thought and action and vision. I'm just thinking about the challenges that we have when we talk about something that's way, way in a lot of ways, a lot tougher. I mean, these are it involves tax policy and legislators or whatever. What are some principles that we should integrate in to keep Idaho moving that keep some cohesive vision there? Is that even a question? Educate or is it a ramble?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Educate, educate, educate. It's a never-ending need. And getting together with our partners at the local level, at the state level, at the federal level, at with the business community, constant education, I think is what really uh is the foundation, helping people just understand. And you always feel like, well, gosh, I finally, you know, we got somewhere with this legislator. You know, they they're you know, they understand, they've got all these uh, you know, tools they understand, they're you know, moving forward, and now they're gone. So um never-ending education. And and I think the we're recognizing, we've always worked very well with our local partners, but just as every day goes by, I think we're all recognizing we cannot strengthen those partnerships enough. There's always more to do to work more closely together and share information and and have a common vision so that we can, you know, continually send a clear message to the policymakers because they've got a million things coming at them. They're they're worried about the next election, they've got, you know, a lot of things on their mind. And so just having a very simple, concise message and just continue to you know share that message, whatever it may be. I love that.

SPEAKER_06 29:36

Yeah, I guess I'd extend off that. I mean, we we spend a lot of time educating, but we also spend a lot of time getting educated. And every conversation we have with you know local local governments, business owners, uh, we we learn something new about you know freight flows or where their labor comes from or you know where you know we need to be anticipating needs in the future. And so the world is uh world has certainly changed. You know, 50 years ago we didn't have a freeway uh here. Uh 20 years ago we didn't have the the widened and expanded corridors we have today. Uh 25 years from now it'll look quite different again. And so we're we're tailoring that network to you know what we learn from the community, it's gonna look like and and where the demand is. And you know, that's every every sector really. We're we're doing a lot right now with some high-tech, you know, micron expansions and data centers and things like that. We we still have that you know really strong agribusiness background and and all the the freight and commodities that flow with that. Uh workforce and housing and you know where people commute is constantly on our mind because that's you know the big daily plug twice a day that we that we move through the system. And so we're we're doing a lot of educating, but we're doing a lot of learning at the same time, and that that really helps us do our job.

User Fees, Politics, And Support

SPEAKER_02 30:58

I think you know what the one thing we have going for us is we have a common problem, right? Like who who have you met that says, I love to sit in in traffic, I love to sit in my car and hang out. It's just not, you know, people want to be able to move and do things. And and I think that's you you touched on something really relevant. I know for us as an organization, um, our employees are having to move further out. And so it's just adding to the problem, is what it's doing. And so, and they're doing that for affordability reasons, they're doing it for a number of reasons. And so I think that's the the the challenge that we've got is is that it's time, it's that that movement. I love what you said about your dad. It goes like this, it doesn't shrink, right? So we know it goes like that. And so, how do we continue to evolve and continue to message with the change? You can't stop evolution of a community when it comes right down to you can try, but it's gonna continue to grow with the investment going on. You mentioned Mike Ron. Take a look at that, all the spin-offs that will come with with that. I know our organization is trying to grow. And so it's just one of those things where it just comes down to time and having a having a unified trying to identify and take on a unified problem is something I would hope can create more momentum in a bigger picture. Is that something realistic?

SPEAKER_06 32:14

No, I think uh I think that's all of our task is you know trying to put that puzzle together and you know see the picture at the end of the day, you know, where where that's all headed. That's that's absolutely the the framework that we put it in.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

We still have a few communities that say we don't want to, we're going to try to prevent, you know, growth. We like it the way it is. Uh but I would say those are few and far between today. But most people are saying, no, this is coming. We we need we need to we need to focus on transportation, it's coming.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

You know, it's interesting as I listen to you because um I I've got a few mantras that people get sick of hearing from me, but like the the formula for success is vision, clarity, plan, action, right? And what I just heard from you is vision is really, really important. Yeah but this clarity, that's where communication happens, right? That's where education happens. So if you could ever have a community vision that was kind of bought off on kind of, hey, this is where we're headed, because we do have, I mean, we got great people here. As I've been, because we've been digging into this, you meet with Compass, you start listening to people, there's a there's no shortage of people with really good people that are listening and trying to come with a plan. But then it is that clarity, right? And that's where a lot of a lot of success goes wrong because if you don't have clarity, if you're not communicating with your employees, if you're not connecting with their hearts, minds, and souls, right? You could have all the you could Garrett could have the best plan for Simplot that he wants, and he can go work his tell off to make it happen. But if he doesn't have clarity, that's why you just did a world tour meeting every employee around the world for the last three months, shaking their hand. But it but it's it's a great analogy, right? Uh like you've got to shake their hand and say, Hey, do you know where we're headed? And they got to look you in the eyes and say, I'm headed there with you, or the plan doesn't matter, the action doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

But all the effort in the world, you you you'll be unsuccessful.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

And I love what you said, Molly. That's why you first went to education, and that's where I hope we can help, because I think it is going to take communication, communication, communication, education. I do think we have one thing going for us, and that is when people are stuck on these freeways, I told Garrett earlier, you don't need a billboard, you won't need an ad on uh KTVB, you won't have to spend that. It'll it'll speak for itself at some point, but but it would be nice to be ahead of that with some sort of uh education campaign or or willingness, because ultimately it is tax dollars, right? However, you look at this, you know, people are gonna look at hey, how's my money being spent? I I do have a question for you because I'm gonna change subject a little bit because I'm I'm intrigued by what you'll say because you were part of Garvey. I remember, oh, 15 years ago, I'm gonna get so old, Garrett. Now it was with Bill Whitaker. Join the club. Bill Whitaker and Skip Off about it. And and we would meet on infrastructure in Idaho, this was in 2010 or maybe before that. And I remember the legislators out in Canyon County were some of the most anti-Garvey people there were because they were just they were just a pain in the butt. And I can remember talking to Bill and saying, hey, just wait until they get enough people pissed about getting between Meridian and Nampa and Caldwell, and all of a sudden they're gonna vote to use the rest of the Garvey funds. And that's exactly what happened, right? All of a sudden Garvey became a uh instead of being a four-letter word, it was like, oh yeah, I guess it's great, right? Tell us how the Garvey thing went down for funding and and how it went. It was a giant success, is where I'm heading with this. And without it, what would we have had? And the importance of um in business, Garrett and I are used to underwriting things, right? So you you're gonna have growth, so you underwrite it, and you kind of say, what are our five options to underwrite something? But unfortunately, in government, right, you don't have, you kind of use the tools you have. Speak to that tool and how powerful it was.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

I think there was a lot of hesitance because it was a first.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Yeah.

Education As The North Star

SPEAKER_00 35:53

And so it was something we had never done before. We knew that we had great people at the department and we knew how to reach out to partners. We worked closely with the Idaho Housing and Finance Association for the Garvey program to do that work, um, to let the bonds in, but there was a lot of trepidation about this. And so, you know, we didn't know either how it was going to work, and so there there was a lot of uncertainty, but we dove in and we learned a ton. One of the things that is interesting for us to compare, I'm trying to think how long did it take us, Jason, before we worked through that program. You know, we had so much of the environmental work was not ready because it why would it be ready? We didn't have the funding, so uh we really needed quite a bit of time to work through the environmental process, particularly with US 95 corridor up north, but with with all throughout the state. So I want to say it took us, I don't know, a good eight years or so before we really were, you know, working well through the process where the projects were under construction and getting done. And so the legislature was like, When are you know, why isn't this done? You know, we just gave you this authority, it should be done tomorrow. And um, so now you flash forward to today, you know, we're working on what's known as the transportation expend expansion and congestion mitigation program. That's a tool we're using today for bonding. It's a state bonding program, whereas Garvey was using federal funds. And we we were able to get the the funds, you know, out there. We were able to get the contracts out there within less than three years, I would say, right, Jason. And uh, you know, it's largely because we knew what we were doing. We had, you know, that experience of the Garvey program. One of the things we also we we heard so much uh concern about Garvey in terms of, well, if I'm not getting a Garvey project, I hate it. I'm voting against it, it's terrible. And so one of the things that we learned was that actually we're such a small state. For us to do these big, big corridor projects like modernizing the Treasure Valley's I-84 corridor, with our former you know, budget that we had, construction budgets were ranging about$300 million a year. We would we would wipe out our entire construction budget just trying to do one big project. That's the situation we were in. So we needed a bonding tool to do, and and that's part of what we learned. That way we're able to do those big projects that absolutely must be done without just stopping the whole construction program statewide so that other communities can still get their projects. So that was a hard communication part of that communication was to say, well, even if you're not, you know, getting you don't have a Garvey corridor, you're still getting the benefit of we're out there, we're doing your we're keeping your infrastructure in good repair and up to date because we didn't have to wipe out the whole budget doing this big project that needed to be done. I think you know, we've spent a lot of time reflecting on the Garvey program. And as Jason said, he spent his time managing that program. And I I don't think anyone would tell you that it was anything less than very successful for the state of Idaho. In fact, we we f you know, as old timers, every now and then will say, Can you imagine? Like, you know, the Garvey program almost didn't happen because you know Governor Kempthorne had to do what he did to be very um assertive, I guess is the word I'll use.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

It's an awesome story. Yeah, it's an awesome story. I love it.

Safety Gains From Modernization

SPEAKER_00 39:33

If he hadn't done that, like what would have happened? How would we have done these projects? We would have still gotten into them with pay as you go, but it would have taken so long and it would have been more expensive, and it would have had a major, major uh impact on the entire state. So the fact that that courage happened and that we had that tool, and I will say the same for the recent uh investment that the legislature did do, uh, if it weren't for those things, I mean I just shudder to think where we would be today, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

I'm gonna pivot a little bit just because uh this time goes by way too fast. But when he tells the story, I um I've heard the story from different people of how he got that through and what he did, what he had to do. And it's it's a great story if you haven't heard it. But he used safety as his and and he gets emotional when he talks about being the governor and thinking that yeah, these funds are gonna for for time and getting people through and and improving like uh uh it's this moment in time really for Idaho. Without his effort, where would we be? We could really ask that question. But then he gets teary-eyed talking about the lives of people that were taken on some of these roads because of the safety, and and then post-Garvey and all these improvements, what's happened to safety statistics? I I hope I hope people really dig into that because a lot of times we talk about tax dollars, we talk about growth, we talk about sitting in our cars. But I I did want to get with you guys over some of the safety statistics and because of some of those investments, and and and that is top of mind for you guys with with how are we keeping our people safe on these roads? And I really wanted to get to it today. So with that as a launching point, talk a little bit about safety.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Oh, the the the date you like data. We did a significant analysis on those Garvey corridors so that we could report back because people wanted to know. And in some cases, we were seeing crashes reduced by half. At least with f fatalities, I would say fatalities and serious ones. The the data was dramatic. I don't know specifically in in the Southwest Idaho projects, but I suspect it it just across the board we were seeing massive decreases in those crashes, to Governor Kim Thorne's point.

SPEAKER_06 41:45

Yeah, it's uh it's not necessarily something we think of every day, but when we do a uh reconstruction or an expansion project, we're not only adding new lanes, we're putting in all the modern standards for safety features. So the guardrails and the you know, flatter ramps and the better sight distances and things that that ultimately make our facilities inherently safer. And and Molly's absolutely correct. We saw staggering numbers, you know, corridors where we'd reduce accidents by half or two-thirds. And you know, a lot of those accidents are you know just property damage, just a car, right? But there's some of those accidents that are you know life-affecting injuries or even fatalities. And that I mean, it it's no exaggeration to say that that money saved lives and and not in small numbers. So um that that's a very rewarding part of the city.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

Well, Governor Camp Thorne, I know he listens there once in a while. We love you. It's just are you talking about that guy's legacy? And and it just goes so deep. But this is one I mean, it's a story that I never even heard before, but I've heard recently from several the significance of leadership and how it affects safety and families. And so if you're listening, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

I would add to that that the following governors, Governor Otter and Governor Little today, they're also very, very passionate transportation advocates, and they were able to continue that so that we could move forward and build on that to just continue the momentum. They they've been phenomenal uh advocates for transportation.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

You gotta have champions, don't you? Sure do. And people who are committed. And and you look at all the boxes that were ticked with that, not only from the safety, what y you can't replace a life. It's the most precious thing in the world, right? And so, but at the same time, through some of those investments with the Garvey bonds, it was an economic challenge. And so we kept jobs. And so it was a solution that was taking place, keeping people employed, and at the same time creating the capacity that we need to need to have today. And if we didn't have it today, it would be be unbelievable. So you need to have those people that are persistent.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

We have heard some of, you know, obviously that wouldn't be our arena, but we've heard a number of people say that the the Garvey program, that investment in transportation probably had a a very important thing. Very positive impact on Idaho's ability to withstand the Great Recession. Totally.

Bonding, Inflation, And Value

SPEAKER_06 44:05

Yeah, that's probably a lesser told story of our transportation finance. But prior to Garvey, Idaho really hadn't borrowed to capitalize any transportation investments. And that's obviously for a very traditional state, that's a bold step. But you know, through Garvey and now more recently, through some of the bonding we've done with this the state techum funds, um, we've enjoyed very good interest rates. We we run a you know very fiscally prudent bonding program with our house uh partners at housing and finance. And you know, some of those interest rates were like two and a half percent, right? We're suffering five, ten percent inflation in construction input some of those years, right? And we're building things that last 50, 80, 100 years. Uh that's a a really good use of a financing tool to bring that kind of investment to the cloud.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

I'm gonna give I'm gonna give one plug because I learned something. Um years ago, I I went I did a went a field trip down to Utah because I'm like, okay, conservative state, right bias, how come they have been able to create tools in the toolbox that are still conservative but but are effective, right? Because ultimately the pay as you go thing sounds great until you don't have enough money to pay as you go, and then you're in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

If you've got low volumes, right?

SPEAKER_04 45:25

And so I was with a guy named Lane Beatty, and he was a longtime legislator down there, and then he became their their chairman, their they became their uh pre uh CEO of their chamber of commerce in Salt Lake. And we were on this, we were on this uh little field trip understanding how they were financing things. I really wanted to dig in what what are their different tools and how does it differ from ours? Can we learn from it? And and um he looked at me one time and he said, if you're conservative and you really believe that the people using something should pay, and we shouldn't burden us with the future growth, because that's what you always hear is growth should pay for growth. There is nothing more conservative than bonding at really low rates and having the people that are going to use the thing in the future pay for that versus burdening the people of today. And when he said it, I'm like, dang, that's exactly right. It's exactly like it's it's underwriting things in the right way so that the people that are gonna use it are gonna be paying for it. Um I I think we need to educate people on that because uh and sometimes it's like we don't borrow money, we're Idaho. But but we need, especially for big projects, especially for what we're talking about, if you're gonna ever expand and acquire right away and get this stuff done, you're gonna have to bond. And it is a conservative principle. It is not some, you know, leftist way of passing on to our children this thing. And and I I just love the way he taught me that day. And I'm like, that's right, that is that is a conservative principle.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Any thoughts on that? I think just costs continue to go up. And so it that that falls into that mentality, Tommy, and and it's not going to be cheaper down the road. And so if we have the capability, and what I'm hearing from both of you is all this work still comes with a lot of discipline, and you have to be disciplined in spend and you have to be on top of it. And if you have that discipline, then it gives you the opportunity to plan ahead and keep that cost structure in check because it will only be significantly more expensive down the road. Look at the price of land, look what look at what's happened over the past five, six, seven years. And look at what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

We add in the safety element. We always go to that piece is, you know, because people love to say, okay, here's the business element, you know, and the inflation, how does all this work out? And and you can spend quite a bit of time on that, and that's all true. But the biggest issue to us is you're able to save lives today, you know, that that would those are lives that would be lost if you waited 20 years from now. Think about all the the safety benefits that we can have today. It's huge.

Workforce, Capability, And Execution

SPEAKER_04 47:46

Yeah. What keeps you guys up at night? What what are the like if you if you when you lay in bed at night and think about like your job and the future for your kids? Um what what what bothers you?

SPEAKER_06 48:02

Well, I don't know if it uh it bothers me, but we spend uh we spend a lot of a lot of time thinking about you know how we train and develop a workforce. You know, how we we keep the right people in the positions to keep this work going. Um I'm laughing that was a heavy question coming.

SPEAKER_04 48:19

But you know why I'm laughing is because a good friend of mine, Mike Voren, had uh, you know, he had he had um uh uh some guests at his his ranch, and one of the speakers was Mad Dog Mattis. And there was a little question asked with him, and someone asked him that question, and he looked he looked at the room and he said, Nothing keeps me up. I keep other people up.

SPEAKER_05 48:39

And when I asked Jason that, I thought, I thought he might just look at me and he might give me the mad dog maddis answer, which is nothing keeps me up. I keep you up, honey. You almost did that.

SPEAKER_06 48:50

Almost, yeah. It's crossed my mind, but no.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Well, things keep him up, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_06 48:55

We uh we spend a lot of time, you know, figuring out you know how to keep the right folks working, how to instill that vision and clarity. Uh that that's great insight. And you know, it the department values doing things, you know, super effectively, super cost efficiently. So we're we're talking about building some you know big expensive things and dealing with some record growth. And you know, we pride ourselves every day on doing that as efficiently and effectively as we can. And so you know, we always want to be good giving good value to the taxpayer and and giving them the services they need at a at a good rate. And and part of that is having the right folks there and the right you know education to bring that forward. So the the space is getting more complex, right? We're moving into a place where you know public-private partnerships are starting to be a thing where we we capitalize things uh like star legislation to build projects, or we we partner with developers or communities on on projects, or or where we bond for some projects. And you know, that takes education and the right people to to manage all of that. So it it's uh it's exciting to be in. It it takes you know an extra level of skill and and knowledge to manage those things. And so we're I guess if there's anything that keeps me up at night is how do I how do I keep people learning and growing so that we can do this for that was a damn good answer to Jason?

SPEAKER_04 50:19

That was really good. Patiently persistent, just keep it moving forward, right? Really, really good. Really good.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Uh-oh, he's looking at me.

SPEAKER_04 50:27

No, and do you have anything to add to that?

How Citizens And Business Can Help

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Uh I I agree with Jason. I mean, our our workforce is uh is always a challenge. On average, more than 250 people leave our department every year. So we're constantly hiring, you know, and we're watching that talent go out the door. And a lot of it has to do with the compensation that we are able to offer at the state level. So that brings me to probably the biggest thing that keeps me up at night, which is the legislature. And just, you know, just it's it's so important for us to work closely with those partners and to help them see um what the benefit is to their constituents. We, you know, I think a lot of the message they get about employment is well, you know, at this wage, there's no way I can possibly find housing. You know, for example, they hear that, and that's all true. What we've been careful to do is to change the conversation a little bit and and make it about can we provide transportation services? That's really that's what our role is, and and this is something that impedes our ability to do that service. If we don't have a qualified staff member when you want them to be there, and trust me, you do, when those bridges are struck or when there's challenging safety problems on the road that need that are complex, that need seasoned people to make sure that they can properly repair that so that it's safe. You want us to have seasoned employees, and so we're we're being careful to change the conversation somewhat so that it's it's clear this is really all about providing service, and you cannot do that without having seasoned, experienced employees. It's also wasteful if you're continuously we're uh we're spending so much of our resources on training these days. Those are resources that be that could be used elsewhere if we weren't continuously um bringing new people on board and trying to get them up to speed. So and and then with the transportation funding, I think it's just an ongoing, as I said, the education process is ongoing, and just making sure that we're always there for the legislature. Something our director likes to say is we'll go as fast as you want us to go. How fast, you know, the question comes, you know, what's the impact? What can you do here or there? And and frequently the response is we we want to go as fast as you want to go, you know, let's work together.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

That's awesome. That's great. Well, we're this went, I told you, it would go by way too fast, but as we as we kind of wind down, um, you know, this is Garrett and I are trying, as busy as we are, to be part of something that helps the business community help help you. And um, I think uh hopefully we have that voice and can be helpful. Uh, I can tell you it's been an absolute pleasure getting to know just being in these conversations. Bobby and Bobby Joe and I have walked out a couple, I'm like, this is gonna be awesome, just getting people around the table to help. You know, I think our our kind of committee is gonna have each of the mayors on it and the county, and and then and then you and ACHD and VRT and Compass and then some business leaders. But what would be your message to those listening that are community members that are worried about transportation and growth and how all this is gonna work? Any any any advice you could give uh citizens that are out there listening to this as it relates to transportation into the future?

SPEAKER_06 53:52

Well, I guess let me set that up to say I'm I'm constantly in awe of our legislators and our our transportation board members, our commissioners, you know, our legislators in in two and a half, three months are expected to know everything about what it takes to run a state and pass really good policy and solve all these issues, right? The people that take that on, that that's admirable. And and they 201 do a phenomenal job of navigating this space. We take it as our challenge to you know answer their questions, to you know, educate them on how we serve the public and and how they uh play a role in that. And the public does too. So I guess you know, if I'm talking to the public about you know how they can help, it's you know, let your voice be known. Let it you know, let them know what that they value, what they want them to be working on, how they uh how they want to spend our limited resources to you know make the Idaho that they want to live in. So it's great.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

I I don't know that I can add much to that. That's exactly what I would say as well. Just underscore that, keep the conversation going, talk to as many people as you can so they know what really matters to you.

Closing Gratitude And Optimism

SPEAKER_02 55:06

I love that we're hearing so much about education and and and the authenticity that both of you bring. It just seriously, people don't, you know, when traffic's flowing good and everything's fine, people don't think about it. They just it's it's becomes an expectation, right? But the reality of what you both do every day and what what your your entire workforce does every day is they try to make our lives easier and so that we can get things done, whether it's our personal lives or commerce, whatever it is. And thank you both very much for being so committed to to what you do every day because you do make a difference. You really do.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 55:41

Yeah, I'll I'll end I'll double down on that and say one of the nice things about either meeting with legislators, meeting with with you folks, there's a lot of really wonderful people that love this state, that want what's best for the families and the future of Idaho. And the more you get to know them and the more you start communicating and listening, I think the better you feel. Um, sure we got challenges, but man, the future is bright with the people we have here, with the heritage we have that we're building on, and the fact that we always come together and figure it out. I wouldn't rather be anywhere else on the entire planet than right here in Idaho. This is home. This is it. Agreed. Absolutely. Thanks so much for coming on today, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you for having us.