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Ever Onward Podcast
The Ever Onward Podcast is your go-to business podcast, offering engaging discussions and diverse guests covering everything from business strategies to community issues. Join us at the executive table as we bring together industry leaders, experts, and visionaries for insightful conversations that go beyond the boardroom. Whether you're an entrepreneur or simply curious about business, our podcast provides a well-rounded experience, exploring a variety of topics that shape the business landscape and impact communities. Brought to you by Ahlquist.
Ever Onward Podcast
The Human Side of Politics with Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane | Ever Onward - Ep. 131
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What does it really take to serve in public office?
In this episode of Ever Onward, Tommy Ahlquist sits down with Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane for an honest and wide-ranging conversation about leadership, election integrity, public service, family, and the personal sacrifices that often come with serving others.
As Idaho’s 28th Secretary of State, Phil McGrane oversees elections, business registrations, campaign finance reporting, and official state records. He shares how his office is working to modernize voter services through VoteIdaho.gov, improve election transparency, strengthen election security, and build public trust in Idaho’s election process.
The conversation goes beyond policy. Phil opens up about the realities of campaigning, the emotional toll of running for office, balancing leadership with family life, navigating criticism, and why resilient, principled leaders are still needed in government today.
Tommy and Phil also reflect on the lasting leadership legacy of former Idaho Governor Dirk Kempthorne, the importance of mentorship, building strong teams, and why they remain optimistic about Idaho, America, and the next generation of public servants.
Whether you’re interested in Idaho politics, leadership, elections, government, or simply hearing an authentic conversation about service and purpose, this episode offers valuable insights for leaders in every field.
In this episode:
- Phil McGrane’s path to becoming Idaho Secretary of State
- Election integrity, security, and transparency
- Modernizing Idaho’s elections and voter services
- Leadership lessons from public service
- Team building and organizational culture
- The personal cost of campaigning
- Family, resilience, and overcoming adversity
- Mentorship and the legacy of Dirk Kempthorne
- Why good people should still consider public office
- Hope for Idaho’s future and America’s future
About Ever Onward
Ever Onward is hosted by Tommy Ahlquist and features conversations with leaders, entrepreneurs, innovators, public servants, and changemakers who are building stronger communities and creating lasting impact throughout Idaho and beyond.
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Meet Idaho’s Secretary Of State
SPEAKER_00Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have a good friend and just an amazing public servant, Phil McGrain, Idaho Secretary of State. Phil is is everyone that knows him loves him. He's serving as the 28th Secretary of State for the state of Idaho. He previously served as the 80 County Clerk. He's basically been a political nerd. He'll self-describe himself that for years, and loves elections. Was uh very knowledgeable coming up to his role as uh an electionist Secretary of State, and since being in has made incredible changes to keep both the security of elections and the processes uh so much improved. On top of that, he's just one of the one of the greatest guys you can ever talk to. We're really excited to have him on today. Ums uh he testified before Congress uh on the success of the administration of elections in Idaho in 2024. Um he led the modernization of voter services through voteIdaho.gov, making election information and voter tools more accessible for Idahoans. Um again, this has been his life on transparency, security of elections, which are very important in America right now. Um we're really excited to have him on today, Secretary of State Phil McGrain. Phil McGrain. Secretary of State. It's so good to see you. It's great to see you. How you been?
SPEAKER_02We've talked about it for quite a while.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you're a hard guy to schedule.
SPEAKER_02I'm yeah, I think you're a harder guy to schedule than I am. I'm pretty sure.
SPEAKER_00How you been?
SPEAKER_02Uh good. There's a lot of life that's been happening over the past year. Um hey, I got through the May primary. You know, that's uh a big feat. Uh, this was the first time I've been unopposed ever, so that was also amazing.
SPEAKER_00Relief, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_02You have no idea.
SPEAKER_00Did you just wait till the filing deadline and just like take a side?
SPEAKER_02We actually, you'll relate to this really well. We had a really funny um chance series of events. One, uh, and I think we'll talk about it. I've had a lot of life over the past year, to say the least, both in the the office, a lot of changes and uh shifts and people, but also in my personal life. And I was hoping to go on a post, uh, if I'm honest. And so to do that, you and others helped along the way in terms of trying to make a real presence early on. I worked really hard over the fall and headed into candidate filing. Um, I didn't expect candidate filing to turn out the way it did. Um, but the really interesting part was the Wednesday before we did a campaign kickoff with all the supporters, we packed Priade Grill. Like we've got photos of just people standing everywhere, and I I would say it was me and all my supporters excited to like storm the Capitol, and we're gonna do this, right? And then two days later was candid filing and no one filed. And it was kind of like you storm the Capitol, but the doors are wide open, no one's around, and you're like, Oh, what a relief. Yeah, we're here. Oh, I guess we did this.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. Yeah, you have done a tremendous job.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Well, first of all, um you you're one of the nicest, smartest, kindest guys I I know, seriously, in politics. And there's not very much. Well, it's saying a lot because there's not that many in politics. So I'd say that about no, it's true. Like it's from the from the moment I got to know you, I just thought you're just a really good guy. And we need good people in politics. We do. We definitely do. So that's the first thing. But then you've done such a great job. Um, just watching you do your thing and then watching you take care of your business and the way you do it, the way you communicate. Uh it's pretty unique. And uh so thank you for serving. Thank you. And then uh I was I'm glad you're unopposed because I want you to stay there and just keep doing what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02I I love this work. I am uh I think the people who know me really well, I'm a I'm a government nerd uh of the best kind. I I really have a passion for it. I'm unique in the space and since I've grown up in it, uh, both in the election space but just in the government space. Um, I think you know, kind of my in terms of my family, it's a healthcare family. Yeah. You and my dad used to work together ages ago. Yeah. Uh um, but my dad is also kind of a government nerd, and I've inherited some of that. And I think one of the unique things about being secretary of state is I had worked in this space long enough that I had a long list of things. Like, if I were ever
Building A Team That Ships
SPEAKER_02secretary of state, here's the things I would do. And then all of a sudden, someone gave me the keys and it was like, all right, let's go. And I've got an extraordinary team.
SPEAKER_00When you got in, uh talk, talk to us about the team building and talk to us about how because one of the things that um attracted me to why even I tried to run when I did, yeah. Is if you talk to people within state government, once you get in the positions, you can really affect a lot of change relatively quickly. And and when you interview people and say, when you went in, your vision, your effort, your thoughts of what was gonna happen, you actually can accomplish a lot. And uh did you find that to be true?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. I came in loaded. I anybody who if you talk to like Alex Adams or somebody, um, one of the strange things in these roles is you have to submit your budget before you're even sworn into office, right? One, your predecessor actually submits the initial budget. And I was like, no, we're swinging for the fences. We're gonna like, if I'm gonna do this, we're gonna do it well. I have a there's a saying uh in the office, just anything worth doing is worth doing well. And I think our product shows that in terms of the work we do. The number of software systems we've replaced, the positions that we've added. And I know that's not what you're normally hearing people say these days, but you know, I have someone dedicated to election equipment. At the time that people are questioning election equipment, um, you see me present that I have a data visualization specialist. He's the one who makes people engaged in stuff that is otherwise boring. Yeah. Um, and I have a team that is just chomping at the bit and excited to do the work we do. And what you were already touching on, we get to do stuff at such an extraordinary scale. I was just having lunch with a young woman who's part of Girls State. She's the Secretary of State for Girls State, and we were sharing like the cool things we get to do. Like the scale we will provide the voter pamphlet this fall. We'll print 850,000 copies and send them around the state. No one gets to do stuff at that scale. It takes a printer a month to print enough of those. Um, and we get to touch so many people's lives. And as you know, in the political space, like we have such a big impact. Um, voting determines the course of so many things in our state and in our communities. And I love being right in the center of it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I love that. Well, you've you've done a you've done a wonderful job. Um, talk about team building because one of the things you've done is you built a nice team quickly to make sure that you're uh effective.
SPEAKER_02The you know, one of the things I take pride in is we're the fun office. Uh, I think no one would quite challenge it. Well, I'll give you an anecdote, it's not gonna surprise me.
SPEAKER_00It's very much under isn't that like being the tallest midget in a room
Making Government Fun With Goats
SPEAKER_00down there with a it might be, but I genuinely think we're the fun office.
SPEAKER_02I uh like a year ago, I was wearing my Christmas suit because it's probably not a funny joke with Joe Paris on your head. Actually, let's use Joe. People know Joe, right? He's uh sitting off to the side here. Uh Joe, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00Joe, what a great guy.
SPEAKER_02Joe, how did you ever recruit Joe? Because we have fun, we're the fun office. And I I'll give you an example. Joe's first day.
SPEAKER_00Surprising for me.
SPEAKER_02Joe's first day in our office. So his top story at KTVV was years ago. It was Go to Palooza.
SPEAKER_00No, I totally lived, I lived through Go to Palooza.
SPEAKER_02Go to Palooza, right? It went national all over. So when he showed up to the Capitol for the first day, there were goats in his office.
SPEAKER_00Real goats?
SPEAKER_02There were real goats in his office. And my team was like, Phil, you're crazy. Like one of my teams like, you can't do this. And I was like, who's gonna stop me? You brought goats into the Capitol? Of course I did. And we had these little baby goats. And I'm telling you, you take okay, you say team building, the joy that those goats spread throughout our office. Our team both thought I was insane and we're having an amazing time holding and cutting goats.
SPEAKER_00Goats are great. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm there. Do you have anything to add to this?
unknownI'm shocked.
SPEAKER_01She was like small.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, yeah. They're from Murphy.
SPEAKER_00So the the the goats came from well, for those listening, the goats came from Murphy, Idaho.
SPEAKER_02Yes. From someone who used to work with me in the clerk's office. Okay. Uh Phyllis is amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. All right. So I stand corrected. You are the fun office.
SPEAKER_02We are the fun office.
SPEAKER_00You are the giant.
SPEAKER_02We work hard and we play hard. I think your team, you're right.
SPEAKER_00We don't, you know, I I gotta get better at uh that's not true. We get to do fun things, but we don't celebrate. One of our one of our we need to do, we need to do better. We're just like, okay, what's next? What's next? What's next?
SPEAKER_02Like I think we're that way. I think we're funny. I was talking to our elections director, Megan Hill, who just extraordinary, does an awesome job. Is that we're all she had a great quote. She said, Um, it's hard to celebrate accomplishments when they were start as as expectations. Yeah, you always thought you were gonna get there. So, right, you got there, you're like, Well, I thought I would. Um, I for us, we're elections is such an intensive process because it yeah, you don't get to move election day. There are, you know, think about building projects, it's gonna happen. You're like, sometimes you have delays, yeah. We don't have delays, yeah. You have to show up. And some of the best team building is like election night at 3 a.m. when you're all kind of blurry eyed and you're just but you're all in it together, and there's something bonding about that.
SPEAKER_00You know what I've said, and I I I this isn't this is true. I think if you truly enjoy the journey and the joy of what you do, I I think it you you have to sometimes celebrations feel artificial. Oh, sure. Because I think you're enjoying it along the way. Sitting there at 3 a.m. on election night, you just enjoyed with your team the pinnacle was that. Yes, not the end.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And and does that make sense? It does.
SPEAKER_02No, the the event was what was exciting. The going afterwards to celebrate, you're like, no, we were just doing we just did this together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah so so, in some ways, that that is the do-it-together. Now I will say we get to do some fun things. I'm going to the World Cup tomorrow.
SPEAKER_02That sounds fun.
SPEAKER_00We're taking some clients and going up to Seattle, the World Cup. We get to do some fun things, but but as far as like celebrating when when we accomplish or close or do something, and it's usually just a yeah, that was great. That's what's what are we doing now?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and some of the biggest ones, uh, I will say it's it's tough. There's both the journey, and I think just to highlight, you and I have shared the experience of just running for office statewide.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which is such a big people do not realize the amount of
What Campaigning Takes From You
SPEAKER_02work and effort that goes into it. And I have a unique distinction. I I haven't really ever gotten to celebrate those moments. Um, and I say that because like I had in uh 2022, I had the most competitive statewide race. No question, the primary most competitive statewide race. And I have a great photo from election night where everybody goes, You've been down there with the governor and stuff, and you go up to the podium and you give, you know, the governor gives his speech and everyone applauds. Um, we took this great photo. It was me and Angela, uh, my wife, I guess now, ex-wife, I get there. The um, but we're standing up at the podium. We intentionally took a picture at the podium because the room is empty. They're taking the signs off the wall. Um, we never gave a speech or celebrate in because my race wasn't called until 9 a.m. the next day. We had to go to bed because we're exhausted and still didn't know if we had won or not. And so there was no champagne toast. It was we grinded it out to the very, very end.
SPEAKER_00You know, I've never had anyone on where we've talked about it, but it is um, I was super naive when I went into it because I just didn't.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I you can't know.
SPEAKER_00I do I did my homework uh interviewing people who had gone from the private sector straight in and and loved it. I I interviewed them, I listened to them, I I had great ideas, but the the actual process of of what it would do, the toll it takes, it's different than anything else.
SPEAKER_02You've done a lot of uh big uh efforts between your time at the ER, your time in business development.
SPEAKER_00Politics is different than anything else. It's it's um uh I don't know how to describe it, but but it it it it is just different. And I think it's different in the world we live in where you can say you could be you could be as nasty as you want to be nowadays on social media and you can with the ideal logs we have. Truth doesn't really well, what is truth? Right it's probably whatever blogosphere you're immersed in. It's it's your it's your it's your feed. Right, that's your truth. And it may not be true, and people and people are just get so nasty. And I remember I remember specifically Mitt Romney when I was talking to him about hey, what's this gonna be like? And and I remember him saying a couple of things that just I wrote them down because it was such an impactful time with him saying you you'll never ever expect who will disappoint you during this or the toll it takes during those relationships. And he also he also hit nailed it on the head and he said, You won't be able to describe the feeling if you lose what it feels like to lose. Yes. And um and both those things were absolutely true. Um, he was spot on. And and and you can only go through it.
SPEAKER_02But then the so I think the I want to I want to touch on that part though, because like one, I can relate to it. I re there's two things. I remember I think it was Cranny and I uh talking at one point, and when when you're in business, right, if you're the second best phone manufacturer in the world, you're killing it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a zero sum game.
SPEAKER_02You are like doing great. If you're the second best candidate, that's it. It is truly a zero-sum game. And the for me, one of the things just about today. So I was talking uh before coming in here today, just knowing some of the stuff we might talk about. I mentioned to Angela, hey, I was gonna talk about the divorce and some of the other things are coming up. And at first the reaction was like, You're gonna do what? Right, uh, rightfully so. But then it was interesting as I talked, she leaned into it. She's like, Because I was talking about you and your journey and that that how it felt afterwards, right? Yeah, and she's like, Yeah, he ran statewide and he lost. And she's like, and we kept going. Because most people don't think about I ran in 2014. I ran statewide for Secretary of State, ran against Lawrence Stenny. I finished second out of four candidates, did I ex better than people expected. Uh, I was in the fight, um, and we lost. Obviously, now I've worked my way back here to be here at this moment, but that was not an easy journey. The I remember Meg Whitman, she ran for the United States Senate in California, and you can relate to this. And she's like, You go from this intensity and this level of busyness and people and traveling to the day after, like crickets. Even your friends don't know what to say.
SPEAKER_00It's um one of the guys I went and spent some time with was Doug Ducey. So he was the CEO of Coldstone Creamery, and then he had gone and to be the governor of Arizona. And so I I look for guys to go just to be mentors. And I went and talked to him, and he I it was when I was still running, and he's like, Hey, he's like, I've done this because he had run for a couple things before and lost. And he just said, It's it's the weirdest thing. I remember him saying, Go by when you go by the campaign office the day after it's gone. It's hollow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like and he and he described an experience where not only were the people gone, but they'd already like taken down everything. And he and he went to his car and sat down and said, It's over. Like all that time, effort, energy, money, blood, sweat, tears of personal sacrifices, it's over. It's a weird thing. It's a weird thing, and it's so politics are listen. Some people are built for it and some people aren't. I don't it it's so different, Phil.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I don't know if anyone's built for it, especially we were saying earlier in this day and age, it's the one. I don't even know that we're adequately describing it's the intensity, and then it goes quiet. But when you say sacrifice, like your family gives you gives you up for a period of time. Yeah, they all have to lean in. And it's one thing for people to say bad things about URI on the internet, but we kind of went in knowing, like, oh, people are gonna take some pop shots. I still remember my mom ran into Senator Craig at Target one day, and she's just kind of laid into she's like, I don't think I'm built for this, right? Because it's one thing to be the mom and be that feels entirely different.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I and I and and I remember Ann Romney saying, Don't let your wife get on social media. You've got to just stay off. And that's that's tough. And then when it's it's neighbors, it's people that have been down the street from you for 20 years that you know your babysat, their kids and your friends, and they're just like flaming you online, flaming you online. It's like, whoa.
SPEAKER_02Like I didn't know you had that
Staying Human Under Online Fire
SPEAKER_02in you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it's just it's weird. It's weird. And then I mean, I had things where they were people attack my kids. I'll never forget meeting with a couple of just there are some boneheads in this place politically.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, complete some people are given megaphones, complete knuckleheads that are like the worst people on the planet. And I remember sitting with one of them and uh it was late meeting in eastern Idaho, and I was tired and I was just like, I gotta go meet with this guy. And at the end of the meeting, he pulls from under his desk an Oppo research file on each one of my children. Oh and he opens it up and he said, Do you know? And he was and I literally looked at this guy and I'm like, Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_02Like, how low do you have to be to do that?
SPEAKER_00No, I'm just I'm just like, you are you're like it was kind of the end of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I had a couple of those where I just I honestly, and and for me, like I wanted to win. I'm super competitive.
SPEAKER_02I believe that about you. I don't think you have to convince any of your listeners.
SPEAKER_00But I don't, I also had a bit of like when when it was someone that I'm like, dude, screw you. I wouldn't I wouldn't do stuff with you before. I'm not doing it now, and I'm not doing it after. Um, and I was always able to do that. Um, there was a few of those I just had to get up and and get out of.
SPEAKER_02One of the things I think you you talked about just uh people who are built for this. One of the observations I've had, and and uh I'll say it's a struggle that I'm I I think is a perpetual thing to work through. In politics, hubris is one of the challenges, not letting it get to you. But the other one is in order to do this in today's environment where people are lighting you up, yeah, and it and and it's friends or neighbors or whatever, yeah. And mind you, it let's be clear, like I have a pretty positive or like in terms of the people around me, I don't get nearly the negative stuff my peers do until you move up, right?
SPEAKER_00Until the next till you move up. Secretary of State, you're probably still in there's decisions that you make. No one was thinking, hey, someone tried to screw me and are the machines automated, where like my predecessors have said it's very different for me than it was for them.
SPEAKER_02There's no question about that. But you know, one of the things is like you want to have you have to have a thick enough skin to handle this space, but now I've been around it enough that you have to be careful of your skin not getting too thick. There are people I can name where they've become callous. Yeah, and so why I say that is that yeah, the bad stuff bounces off, but so does the good stuff. Yeah, there's some of this work that is so rewarding when someone stops you at a coffee shop to thank you and you have no idea. Like I had a woman, I was fixing my sprinklers. Yeah, I was in flip-flops, a hoodie, and this woman comes up and she recognizes me, and all of a sudden she's like crying because she's just so appreciative of the work that the office is doing.
SPEAKER_00Very well said, right?
SPEAKER_02And you're just like, holy smokes.
SPEAKER_00Hey, we're gonna veer
Dirk Kempthorne And Real Leadership
SPEAKER_00all over the place today. Let's talk about Dirk.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, please.
SPEAKER_00I know he was a mentor of yours, but it makes it all the more special when you get a rare human being like that that through it all maintained probably the highest degree of humanity. Um I mean, just the highest degree of love for his fellow men for people, the honorable reasons I'm serving, and the ability, the the God-given skills to articulate those feelings to people and come across. I he was a pretty unique guy. And every time I was around him, I'm like, wow. I I would, I would, I mean, every interaction I'd leave just like, oh, I'm just so in fact, just today, today, it's kind of ironic. Today um I framed it, but he he he uh wrote me a handwritten note um a couple a few weeks before he passed, and I had that framed with a picture with him, and it just got framed for my office. Um I love that guy. And it makes it even more remarkable when you get when you see someone like that that's figured out some way during this to keep the level, to keep love in their heart and and uh to slow down and he he had this gift.
SPEAKER_02I was I had lunch with Jeff Kemp Thorn recently about just pausing for any of those kids who wanted his time or attention to give it to him. Right.
SPEAKER_00I I've told this story. So we had a I don't know if you came to it, we had a we had an event for him where we he was big on Operation Military Blessing. So we had an event at Ruth Chris, a private event for probably 40 people, and um recognized him. And and um at the end of it, it was really cool. Everyone wrote letters and put it in a box, and you know, there were all these important people in the room, right? And I went to leave at the end of the night to find him, um everyone else had gone, and I couldn't find him, but I saw Patricia, and I'm like, well he's he's still here. So I'm looking around for him, and he was in the back hallway at the kitchen of Roosecriss. And I went back there and he was individual I I stood there. I mean it chills thinking about it right now, yeah, and I watched him talk to every single one of those people that had waited on the room, and and it wasn't a BS it was it was as authentic as it gets talking about their lives and their and thanking them and looking them in the eye and saying how much I appreciate them. And I'm like, and it changed, it changed me. I'm like, I everyone needs everyone needs that, and to have him as a leader, what an incredible legacy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh I'm extraordinary. The things, the impact that he had for our state in terms of the changes, I mean the vision for it. And everyone, every comment. I mean, you know, I went in a deep dive uh for the services. I was the master of ceremonies for the lying in state ceremony, and so just getting into the the recurring themes where people just I mean, truly like grown men talking about feeling loved. Yeah um and just everyone had that moment where he just made them feel like the center of the universe, right? Um uh and then to have such a lasting impact, as you said in in pods, you can make quick changes. I've made quick changes, but the stuff that I've done, most of it can be undone. Most of what he did, the connector that's right out that that's not going anywhere. Yeah, like uh there's some huge, huge impacts.
SPEAKER_00Boise city. Yeah, the downtown, the way it is, is because of him. And anyway, just a wonderful guy. And I know he meant a lot to you.
SPEAKER_02So no, he did, and I and I will say, I'm I'm I'll take the liberties just pivoting slightly with it. One of the most the coolest experiences from it was not just honoring somebody I looked up to, because I grew up here in Boise when he like throughout his tenure and his leadership style and just his his bipartisanship that came up a lot too. Like when he joined the Senate, he went and met with every other United States Senator, and how rare that is. That feels like I think to everybody else. Like, what do you mean you don't all meet each other? Right? No, I can't. I no, I can't. No, definitely not. And would people even take the meeting today, right? Um, you have you have that side, but one of the other like remarkable things for me was I had I'd always heard Jeff Kim Thorn's name growing up because he was the mayor's son uh and we're the same age, but I never really met him or Heather. And through uh unfortunately, through his passing, we really got connected. And one of the big bonds, I ended up not just going to the various ceremonies, I went like to the after after party with Heather and have gotten connected with Jeff. And part of it was like in Jeff's eulogy, he talked about how Patricia really was the rock. She was the foundation that that, yes, he could go around and shake everyone's hand and the remarkable touch, but that was because he had this solid foundation at home and this support. And as Jeff put it uh at the service, it meant sometimes the family was second, like they accomplished amazing things, but it was a it wasn't just Dirk. Yeah, it was all of them investing together, right? And there's a ton that goes into it, and that is really resonant with me because it people don't see this on the public side. I'm
Family Sacrifice Divorce And Diabetes
SPEAKER_02the only statewide official with children at home, and it shows up all the time. Yeah, people don't think of it or see it. I'm pretty confident my son Andrew is the first person to wear Heelys in the governor's office. Uh, you know, there was one Christmas we're going out to the tree leading.
SPEAKER_00Healy's goats. What else is gonna happen?
SPEAKER_02Right. No, but Heelys don't work well on the on the the sand, the limestone steps and the marble. I'm just saying.
SPEAKER_00There's some maintenance guy right now going crazy.
SPEAKER_02Uh Kevin's awesome. My son knows Kevin, the maintenance guy of the Capitol. Uh I get to share uh extraordinary experiences, but my kids also sacrifice uh in this uh in this business how old are your kids? Uh right now they just uh we're in birthday week and uh which all my daughters and Angel all have their birthday in the same calendar week. So 17, 14, and 10. Wow. Right. And so busy ages, like they get to do some awesome things, but they also have to you can really just be annoyed when I get stopped.
SPEAKER_00It was fun, it was fun spending some time with them at our cat over here. Great, great kids.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. You hung out with them. We were golfing over at Top Golf. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, talk about for you, uh the the we I've taught I've shared with you kind of the personal side, but it's it's tough.
SPEAKER_02It is tough. I think it there's so much work, and it and it's you know, I one of the hardest things, my last my 2022 race was such a big endeavor. And I we knew going in, like I still remember sitting down and saying, all right, we're gonna do this. There's you can relate, I'm sure, in terms of that race. There's a a moment of commitment uh to doing it. I could have never imagined how hard it was gonna be. Uh, and um oddly, one of the best decisions I made during that 2022 race was it took it takes a toll on families. Like when I was talking to Angela, one of the things she's like, yeah, people need to know. She's like, I don't think people know how hard it is on families. And she's like, No, I know the people don't know how hard it is on families, like the the time, the intensity, and it's not just the comments online, it's it's all of it. And um, you know, I think for me, part of my story that I think is just worth sharing is uh so I just very, very recently divorced. Not a place I ever saw myself, not a place I want to be. Um, I always share because I'm in politics. It's not exciting or salacious, it's just 20 plus years of marriage, uh, which I think anybody who's been married for 20 years, you can really that that has its moments and it has that commitment. And we just entered a period of intensity. Um, one of the best decisions was I started marriage counseling uh while I was running for office. And every Wednesday, that was my highest priority. Uh, I don't I think without it, I don't think I could have survived the campaign. Um, in the midst of that, my second daughter Kennedy was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes as a as a medical professional.
SPEAKER_00Huge diagnosis.
SPEAKER_02It's that is a life long deal. Lifelong, life-altering, not just life-altering for her. Like my phone could buzz at any moment to tell us her blood sugar is high or low. Um, and just the layers of it, and uh it it has taken its toll. Like it genuinely has all of those things added was so much headed into it. And I remember I won the primary. That was such a high moment and a relief for all of us. My kids have only they've not only are they their current ages, all of my kids only know me running for office and being in politics. I have this amazing video of McKinsey, my oldest. Uh, she's four years old the first time I ran. Uh, so it's just you can appreciate like your run. That I wasn't even present, but there was a sock hop at the preschool she was going to. And there's a video of her and her one-year-old sister, and every kid at that sock hop is wearing a McGreen sticker. She she's at four years old, she's already writing for the brand, right? Like putting these stickers on. It's it's uh they've lived it and they they give so much uh in it. And so to kind of build up to that was such a big feat to be here. This is the thing we've worked hard, we've sacrificed for. At times with that sacrifice comes shows up in weird ways, you know. That you as you said, what when your comments with Mitt, it's it's it's not the things you predict. Yeah, it's these other the the stories, it's not what's or kind of you're not uh I don't know how to say it.
SPEAKER_00Like there's situations you wouldn't have if not for politics that you have to learn how to deal with, and they're not in the world. You couldn't, yes. You can't prepare for them. I guess that's that's that's what's weird about it.
SPEAKER_02And you can't prepare your family for it. You can't prepare your family. You can say this stuff and they can they're like until they're in it, they can't.
SPEAKER_00Then you get and I I think everyone's experience is a little different. I think everyone's marriage is a little different, I think everyone's family's a little different, um, for sure. But but the problems that come
The Strange Grief Of Losing
SPEAKER_00are also there's there's more and more of them, and it's just it's a strain.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I think it's it this will be surprising for people to hear from me. Like, I this is something I've definitely sought out and I've dreamed of for years to work to this spot. And I was it was amazing to win the primary, but I also remember the primary is not the end, just like right now. We saw the general election, but by about August. Yeah, fair enough. Uh all on that. Uh but August that year, I got to the point where I had this reckoning of like I had given more than I ever intended to give.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And had I known, I probably would have made different choices.
SPEAKER_00Um unless you've gone through it, um when you convince people to give of their time and treasure to a cause, it's so singular and and it it it it's part of the problem, actually. It all becomes about you, right? Like you're the candidate, you're the person, they believe in you. It it's very much, hey, Phil's our guy. I'm gonna host an event for him, I'm gonna give him my money, I'm gonna volunteer for him, I'm gonna stick signs up for him, and that is my guy, right? And and so that drives a couple things. One, you're gonna be, hey, I will not let you down, and I will die for you because of your commitment to me, and I'm willing to do anything to get there, right? And so that's noble.
SPEAKER_02Doesn't it feel though, like what exactly what you're saying initially, as that happens when you're at those events? I've been in this room for some of these events. You're you feel lifted up, and you just can feel amazing. Oh, yeah. All these people supporting you, uh, it's supporting the vision that you have. It's not about you, it's about the things you want to accomplish. And I remember Idaho 2020 before you ran, right? Like the things that you had had wanted to line up and and just taking all your experience, whether it was healthcare or development, to like how we can further Idaho. So it builds you up and you feel great. But as you continue through the fight and the slog, it also becomes heavy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because these people do believe in and they've invested their time and their money and their belief, and you and you're like, I'm gonna go to the greatest lengths.
SPEAKER_00I know this is gonna sound weird, but I was uh I'll never forget, and I love this guy for this, but Todd Cranny. Man, he's more he's more than a f he's more than a friend. He's kind of like a b. He's just uh we we developed a bond. Yeah, yeah. Because if you go when you go through those trenches and there's someone like that that's there for you and and that knows the right thing to say at the right time, um and um there was a point where he knew we were gonna lose. And I was in Carey, Idaho, knocking doors. And um we were walking down streets and and all of a sudden we look up and and there's Todd in his truck. And he says, Get in. And I got in. And um Maddie will remember this. Maddie was with me for every single mile of that journey for two years. But we get he got in and we he said, I'm gonna go buy a diet coke, and we went to a gas station, and he looked over me and said, Hey, you're gonna lose, man. And I remember I remember like not allowing myself up until then to believe that, even though I knew it. And it was this rush of it.
SPEAKER_02Like you already I knew.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, internally. Like I couldn't someone had to say it to you. Someone had to say it to me. And and we had, you know, we drove around for a while and got kind of talk about what it meant and what we do from here. But the rush of emotion and the letters.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I can feel I'm feeling it in my body right now.
SPEAKER_00It just is like it's like, oh wow, man, I did all this and I'm gonna lose.
SPEAKER_02All and all of that. I I gave time you talk about everyone else gave their time and treasure. Yeah. You gave me a few years.
SPEAKER_00I've sacrificed everything for this, and and and it you really have. Then at that point, the first thing is, why on God's green earth did I do this? I would like, well, why did I do this? This is the dumbest thing I could have ever done.
SPEAKER_02I always share with people having been through it, the that there's a grieving process afterwards. Yeah, there is a grief that you have to work through because there's the fight in you, you still want to win, even though you want to say, Todd, no, I I can push and and it's so rational. Uh yeah, no, right. I like thinking about it I I will say I I still remember from my run, it took me, you know, in a race like Secretary of State, you don't get the level of attention a governor's race does. Um, but the televised debate with public television, I did it, I prepared a lot. Um that's like a forum I I enjoy. Um yeah, debates, heck yeah. I do that all day long.
SPEAKER_00Uh Joe. Joe was my were you like on the panel, or you were the moderator? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, the new there's some there's some journalists, man. I use that loose term lightly. Joe was fantastic. Yes. There's a couple of them in the state that I just like. You've you just learn. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02But you but part of it is I just remember that I it took me six months to watch my debate.
SPEAKER_00Like I would I I never I I won't I won't watch it. Right because there's something about everything. So I have a couple of core memories.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I guess. Let's tell stories because this is even better.
SPEAKER_00This is even better. So I I towards the end, and I'm just like, I'm I'm I'm hammered, you know. And I'm doing a Kevin Miller show at Minnesota in a minute studio. And if you remember, in his studio had two TVs. Yeah. And I'm sitting there waiting to go on, and there's two different attack acts, one by one by Raul Super Pack and one by Brad Super Pack, and both of them are dark and ominous. And I'm sitting here and I'm like, is this freaking life for me? I had a really good life, and I'm sitting at 7 a.m. going on the Kevin Miller show with on both sides of me. And what's funny, I'm getting to the point of this. My my 22-year-old daughter is hilarious. She's just, she's, I love her. Yeah. But she will like randomly, like, I'll be cruising throughout my day, and she'll still send me screenshots from the ads and just with all these emojis. Like, I love you, dad, just because she knows. Anyway, uh, it's just it's bizarre. It's bizarre.
SPEAKER_02Doesn't that talk about the bond? Just like you and your daughter still share in that. And like you were talking about your relationship with Todd. One of the things when I was preparing for the Kempthorne service, there's a real powerful moment of reflection for me is uh the people who've been in politics for a long time. There are Kempthorn people, there are little people, there are Craig, Craig, like these, and and heck, I can tell you in Kempthorne, there's there's Senate people versus governor people. I learned this. There's a but also like just like you and Todd, there's this bonding that happens. That's why it makes sense because you've been through the battle together. There are people like I when I traveled, uh, I did something with Chem Thorn a couple years ago, and all of a sudden the person it was uh Michael Bogart was gonna staff him, and it's kind of like wait, he's like way off in life. It's the same staffers from when they were young people, still doing it. You and Cranny still do stuff together all the time.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You you ran years ago.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, you know, Todd, his uh his his dad died tragically during the campaign. I remember very, very yeah.
SPEAKER_02I remember his. I mean, his dad was a supporter of mine. Oh, his dad was amazing.
SPEAKER_00Bill was incredible guy go through that stuff, and and uh we have we have made like in and Travis Hawkes. I mean, it's just really, really close to those people that do it. And and you know what?
SPEAKER_02Then then then let's get to the but there's so there's Tommy people. Yeah, you have these support. I and I will say I the reflection for me was I never had really thought about there being McGrain people until I was doing the Kemp Thor dynamic. I'm a McGrain people. I uh well, there's people I give, but there's like uh my good friend is work with Chelsea, uh Jason La Josa. You know you know Jason La Josa, his cranny and uh chase are the I mean there's uh uh Rob McQuaid, other friends who um Mayor Simmonson and I Mayor Simison, my very first run, him and his kids were in a parade and we're like sprinting together. He tells it all the time.
SPEAKER_00And there's just people You know what's interesting, even what it's been eight years for me now. Um I still I have people that bled for me. I don't care where I am, I don't care what I'm doing, I don't care what they're asking. I say
Rebuilding Trust Across Political Lines
SPEAKER_00yes. Yeah. I'm like, what do you need to do? I mean, you just you you develop a love. You were there for me, yeah. You were you were there for me, and when I need it at most, it's it's incredible. It is the other good thing is once it's over, you realize a it's all okay. It takes it takes I think I think it's just I wish I weren't competitive. I wish I just wish I wasn't competing. You wouldn't be here right now if you weren't competitive. Just hate freaking losing.
SPEAKER_02Sure. But that's part there is part of it. The competition is it's we can talk about the hard pieces, but there are some amazing things. And I, you know, I I don't want anyone to think like feeling sorry for someone like I get to do incredible things, I get to make a difference. Well, that is so rewarding.
SPEAKER_00The irony is we need really, really good people of politics.
SPEAKER_02We need to get it so people can people ask me all the time.
SPEAKER_00I I get I get asked out to lunch, and right now I probably have five people that are like, hey, I want to get ready to run for this, or I want to get ready for and I and I always go to lunch with them and I always say, Do it, do it, do it. You're gonna, you know, it's gonna be hard. But here's what I do to prepare you. Here's what I do to prepare. I went in a little naive. This is what I would do differently. And I do think I have some pretty good advice. But the second thing, we want people that care. We want we want the dirt chem thorns for my kids and my grandkids. Where are the next dirks?
SPEAKER_02Yes. I worry that the environment. I was talking to Patricia about it, has changed so much from his time to now, in terms of the explosion of social media. And it you I was Russ Folcher and I flew together a couple years ago. It was just coincident. We st we sat next to each other, so we talked throughout the flight. And one of the things he was just remarking on is the thing he's seen in his career. So going back to the state senate to his time in Congress now, is he said the bench isn't as deep. It used to be you had tons of people who said, Yeah, I've always thought when I retired I might go serve in the legislature, or any, and there's less, and it's because it's so grueling. I would say no one in their right mind would run for public office right now because you have to get into this arena, and it is a grueling area, but we need in order it matters the decisions that are made at the state level, at the city level, county level, it doesn't matter. They have huge impacts on people's lives, and we need good people to do it. And unfortunately, like we were at Ayacki recently, there was some polling that was shared about one of the things that they're seeing is the um a rise in the acceptance of political violence as a solution. And I will say I had an eerie, it was right after the 2020, the presidential last presidential election. I was with a whole bunch of election officials, so people, and this is uh national, and I look around, it was a room about the size, uh large boardroom. I look around the room and I was like, this is weird. Like I was on the minority in terms of the number of death threats. Like, I yes, I've had death threats in this job. I had to have security during the 2024 election. Uh our office has, and it was I was on the very small end compared to the the Georgia's, the Wisconsin's, the Arizona's, the others, and you're just like, that's not helpful. That's not helpful. Like, that's not good. And we, but we need, it doesn't matter, not just that, that's the extreme end. We need people who really, really are passionate and see the vision. See the vision that it's not just the vision that they have for the state, it's the vision of people like you. There's people in the community who want to make big changes. You were just talking about having lunch with the the the select guy for Boise State, Dr. Hun. Yeah, I'm gonna meet him later today. Yeah. We need people in these roles in whether it's education, whether it's business, to invest in our community.
SPEAKER_00So let's talk a little bit about that. So I think the bench might be thinner because it's just harder. Right. You don't want to get in. But we have some really, really good people too, right now, just great people. Um I I look at, I mean, and when I talk about just like people that I would I would want to be my neighbor, want to be my friends with Debbie. Oh, Debbie's extraordinary. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_02Her passion for education is unparalleled.
SPEAKER_00Uh Bran and Wolf.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Oh, just a amazing like you can't be the like you say, I'm kind. I love that. He's like a teddy bear.
SPEAKER_00Yes, he's he's off the kindness scale. Yes. Scott Bedke is about as as honorable and just I and then Brad. I've you know it's it's really funny because I love Brad before we ran. I remember when I told him I was gonna run. But um, but he he is as Idaho as they come, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02His family's invested, his family before him and his family after him.
SPEAKER_00It's been fun to just become really, really good friends with him. I think it took him a while to make sure I wasn't gonna run against him, but it's been there's always that. It's been really, really, really fun to to just watch him do his thing. And uh he's he's done a great job.
SPEAKER_02You mentioned Bed Key. I think for it is true of any of these people, and is if you ever get the chance for anybody listening to just meet with the people and see the human. Going back to your point, yeah. There's the one of the cool accomplishments that I've had in office. This is it, it's very much fitting of me, is um Um, when I first took office, I did this at the county too. I organized a lunch for all the statewide elected officials. That happened hadn't happened in years and years and years, where all of us got together. And I organized a lunch. We all got around the table in the governor's office and just ate together. If you know the the politics of the people at that table, getting some of them in the room together took work. Yeah. Um, there was like hesitance. And I, but I did this thing and I remember Zach Howgi and the governor both like, what are we doing? And I was like, We're gonna do the chat pack. And they're like, What? I have these like icebreaker like starter chat cards. So you go to a team building, yeah. My team, they all roll their eyes every time I bring out the chat pack. But I gave everyone the chat pack card and I had everyone go around the room and I said, All right, we all know the curated versions of each other. We've all traveled around the state and on the campaign trail. We know the public side. I said, I want everyone to answer this question and to share one story, tell us one thing about you that no one here in the room knows. And it was that we began the room where there's like a little bit of like hesitation, like, what are we gonna do? And by the end, Joan had to interrupt us because we were laughing and just having a good time. And I can still tell you some of the stories that people shared because they were just hilarious and remarkable. And when we walked out, it's hard not to see people, yeah. And just to be like, yes, let's not forget, yeah, we can we have passions, we want to win, but we're still among Idahoans here who at the end of the day all care about the state. We may have different visions where we're going, but we all deeply care about our state. You you can't go through that gauntlet we were talking about earlier and not have a passion for the people of this state.
SPEAKER_00I think that's true. And I think um I think that I think that there are probably are some very extreme examples, but but by and large, getting to know someone, listening, talking, the old soft skills of the world gone by is what we need more of. We do.
SPEAKER_02It's the Dirk Kempthorne.
SPEAKER_00When you were talking about Dirk, it's it's seeing it looking you in the eye. It would bring people together.
Why We Still Bet On America
SPEAKER_00Um I knew this would go by way, way, way too fast. So tell us, tell us what you're excited about. What's what's what's next in the Secretary of State's office and what's next for for film grain?
SPEAKER_02I I'll say for for Idaho, I had a really you have a lot of these conversations too. I was as I was working on the Dirk stuff, there was somebody prominent who was just recounting the good old days and how we need to get back to the Steve Sims days or the to Dirk Hempthorn days. And honestly, after a while in the conversation, I kind of had had it. Right. I think you know in in our space, I'm on the younger end of the of my peer group. And I was like, you know what? We're not going back to those days.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We're moving forward. I don't know exactly where we're going, but there are some tremendous people. I have a lot of friends and colleagues. When you look at the people, whether it's the Debbie's working in the education space, and um whether uh it's looking at some of the new leaders that are rising. I like to try and promote. Um, I was just meeting with a young group that's got this lunch. Uh, you came and spoke to my lunch group ages ago. There's a new group of like 30 somethings organizing. Like, there's so much potential. I think you know, one of the exciting things about America 250 and celebrating this year is it this was a dream. And it America is an experiment, and it takes Americans and Idahoans to come together, as we were just talking about, to really bring this forward. I am as Pollyanna as they get, and I love this state, I love this country. I can talk about how hard it is. I am too. Americ being an American is an amazing blessing.
SPEAKER_00Joe, did you watch UFC? I know Joe's a huge UFC guy. Um I I was in Alaska, but we have Starlink up there. Yeah, I got all the whole crew. That probably for me, I had goosebumps for hours watching the pageantry and the flyover. The flyover was and the just it was and then when Gecy won, but that was that was the fight. But I was like screaming, going crazy. But I just there was so much pride in America, and I I just I I still believe it goes to your World Cup game.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, whether it's the Olympics, it's the World Cup Week. The red, white, and blue.
SPEAKER_00I can't wait for tomorrow. Tomorrow's gonna I cannot wait. Right just be in a stadium full of people cheering for the United States. I I I I think that that's what that's what we have in common for. Yes, is this it's the United States of America. Is the greatest country in the history of this planet, and we live in the greatest state in this country. We are the shining hill, an example, and there's so many good people here. The heritage of who we are.
SPEAKER_02We are so blessed.
SPEAKER_00We are so blessed, and and I think there's so many good. I I I believe, I will always believe and bet on America and on Idaho and on the people we have here. Oh, amen. Amen. You're one of the best people in this state. Oh, thank you. I love you, man. Hey, I I love this. I you do such a good job. Thank you. And um you're you're you're just I can't wait to see watching what you do and be cheering you on from the side, thank you, helping you in any way I can. But thank you, man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this is awesome. Thank you, Tommy. Thanks, everybody.