Ever Onward Podcast

Idaho’s Tech Boom: Boise State, Micron, AI & the Jobs Coming Next with Dr. Amy Fleischer | Ever Onward - Ep. 133

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What does it take to prepare the next generation of engineers, innovators, and technology leaders?

On this episode of the Ever Onward Podcast, Tommy sits down with Dr. Amy Fleischer, Dean of the College of Engineering at Boise State University, for a fascinating conversation about Idaho’s rapidly growing technology ecosystem and the critical role engineering will play in shaping the state’s future.

From Micron’s expansion and the rise of artificial intelligence to semiconductor manufacturing, data centers, workforce development, and Boise State’s growing impact, Dr. Fleischer shares why Idaho is uniquely positioned to become a national leader in engineering and innovation.

She also tells her remarkable personal story—from an eighth grader writing letters to NASA contractors because she wanted to build spaceships, to becoming an internationally recognized mechanical engineer and one of the nation’s leading engineering educators.

In this episode, you’ll learn:
• Why engineering and the skilled trades both matter
• How AI is changing education and the workforce
• The future of data centers and semiconductor technology
• Why Boise State is expanding engineering and AI programs
• Idaho’s partnership with Micron, INL, and leading technology companies
• The importance of critical thinking in the age of AI
• How Boise State is preparing students for the jobs of tomorrow

Whether you’re a student, parent, business leader, educator, or simply curious about where technology is headed, this conversation offers an inspiring look at the future of Idaho and the opportunities being created for the next generation. 

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Meet Dr. Amy Fleischer

SPEAKER_02

Today on the Ever Onward Podcast, we have Dr. Amy Fleischer. She is the Dean of the College of Engineering at Boise State University. She previously served as the Dean of Engineering at California Polytechnical State University for nearly seven years. She's the former chair of the Mechanical Engineering Department at Villanova University, where she was a faculty member for 18 years. She's an internationally recognized expert in thermal management of data centers and electronic systems. She led 42 research grants and authorized more than 100 peer-reviewed publications and two books. She was elected by her peers to serve as the chair of the Engineering Dean's Council to the American Society of Engineering. She is an absolute rock star in the engineering world. We are incredibly fortunate to have uh Dr. Fleischer on today to talk about the College of Engineering of Boise State University. Hope you enjoy this show. For those of you listening, uh, please give us a like and review. Um we appreciate uh you listening every week and uh enjoy this podcast.

Why Boise Felt Like Home

unknown

Dr.

SPEAKER_02

Fleischer, thank you for coming on.

SPEAKER_00

It's a pleasure, Tommy. I'm so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02

I'm so excited to talk to you. There are so many wonderful things going on um in your department, and I um I'm so excited to hear about it um today.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's really an exciting time in the College of Engineering at Boise State, and yeah, I'm gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02

I said department. I see at the College of Engineering. I'm so sorry. That's okay. So so for those people listening, because I'm I'm getting more understanding of the political thing, but it's a big deal. How many deans are there at Boise State?

SPEAKER_00

There are five academic deans and then four non-academic deans, like library and graduate ed and extended education. But the academic deans, there's running the actual colleges, there's five of us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there's five of you.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And I remember when you got here, because everyone was just like doing backflips because they were so excited to get you. So sweet. Because your credentials coming here are incredible. And um, so we're lucky to have you. And and you got here a couple years ago, right?

SPEAKER_00

I've been here a year and a half. I came January 25. Yeah. So I finished out a half a year and now one full academic year.

SPEAKER_02

And I love, I love, um, I read your bio for our intro, so I've already got that out there. But um uh what was it like coming to Idaho? And was it on your radar? And um, we'll talk a little bit about the new president that I just had lunch with, but but was it on your radar when the when the recruiter called you?

SPEAKER_00

So I had a colleague who worked at Boise State. Okay. That I had worked with at Cal Poly. And uh he had he had reached out and said, Hey, you know, there might be an opportunity here. I'd never been to Boise when I been here. When I actually came for my on-campus interview, that was the first time I set foot in Boise. Um, I had cut through Idaho on a road trip before, but uh I had some friends, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna interview at Boise State, and they're like, Oh my gosh, you're gonna love it. Like the the reputation of Boise and Boise State is just uh incredible, and it really matches my lifestyle and my husband's lifestyle really well. So I think we're integrating in and we're just having so much fun being here.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I I'm gonna I'm gonna go all over in this interview because I can't

Micron INL And Idaho Pathways

SPEAKER_02

wait to hear about this. But the other thing is the timing of Micron. Yes, and the timing of just technology and engineering and how we integrate. And I and I really think I really wish we did a better like when I say we, I'm thinking the legislature. I'm thinking the connection of higher ed to the families in Idaho and the conduit or line of sight that uh higher ed is into those companies. We have the INL, which is on our side of the state, sadly, people don't know too much about the INL, but Idaho National Laboratory is the leading cutting-edge grid security, and we're talking grid security, yes, engineering mecca, all things nuclear. I mean, you go visit those camps. I've been over there multiple times, and I'm like, this is unbelievable. So you got that, you got Micron here, and you got all the other tech companies that have come here. And how perfect it is that you have Boise State here with a higher ed program getting our kids into our public university into our jobs. How's that for a setup?

SPEAKER_00

That is exactly what we're trying to do, right? We're exactly trying to provide those paths for Idaho kids to come in and have exposure to these technical jobs. We're building the ecosystem here. And that's one of the things that really drew me to this position. Um, and being able to know that I was coming to an area that was vibrant and people were excited and there's things going on. And Idaho is on the world stage now, right? And Micron uh becoming with the impact that they have and the fabs coming in, that just felt so exciting to me. And it's not just Micron, it's it's across the board, right? Construction management. I mean, there's just so many opportunities here. And what we're finding is we've the college has really made an emphasis in the last few years on making sure we're providing those opportunities for Idaho kids. So the College of Engineering has grown in enrollment uh 33% over the past five years, and the enrollment of Idaho kids has gone much higher than our growth in out of state. So if people think we're we're pulling in from out of state to a certain extent, but we're really concentrating on those Idaho kids and making sure everybody who wants to have that opportunity and get one of these amazing jobs here in Boise. And we want people to stay here.

SPEAKER_02

Can you hammer home? So, one of the things that we are passionate about because of a lot of history, but but we have a teens to trades nonprofit where we get kids in high school right into the trades. Yeah. And that is super important. But what I think sometimes gets washed over a little bit is the value of those higher. You still need the higher ed degrees too. You need it all. And sometimes, I think sometimes the soapbox is so high and heavy on the hey, we need the trades jobs, which we do, that we kind of sometimes forget. We we also need these these engineering jobs, and there's no substitute for that. There's you just we need them.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And it's it's not an either-or, right? It's a yes and right, it's it's everything, right? And I'm a huge supporter of the trades, and it's an amazing opportunity and they're incredible jobs, yes. And we also need engineers and computer scientists and people who are working on that the high-tech side of it and working hand in hand with technicians, and there's pathways. And if somebody starts as a technician and then decides later, you know, I might want to become an engineer, we're working with CWI and we're finding those pathways. And it's not one path end, it's always both.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. And I think in healthcare, which is where I come from, everyone knows those pathways. I might be a paramedic or a CNA, and then I might be a nurse, and then I'm then I might, because I'm working my way through, and then I might say, Oh, I'm gonna go to med school. And it's it's the same sort of concept sometimes with these, right? And even even, yeah, it's just it just is, but I think sometimes, and then we talk about the the doctorate programs or the postdoc stuff that goes on.

New President Energy And Alignment

SPEAKER_02

Um, anyway, I'm excited to talk about that. Before we jump into, I want to talk about where you just came from. So, so we just had the announcement last week. Dr. David Hahn is the last sole five finalist, so he'll be the next president of Boise State University. Yes. Um, comes from the University of Arizona, my alma mater for my residency, and he was the dean of their uh uh college of engineering there. Talk a little bit about how excited you are with the selection of Dr. Hahn.

SPEAKER_00

I think the entire campus is excited about the selection of Dr. Hahn, uh, what he's gonna bring, and the the excitement he's bringing to campus, everybody has just been resonating around that. Now, our college in particular, because he is an engineer, he's a mechanical engineer, much like myself. And uh, as people were coming into my office the past two days, they're like, Did you know? Did you know? And I'm like, you know, I I I had a little bit. I got I got like yourself to play a small role in the in the selection. And I've been very excited waiting for this news to come out. I just came from a meeting with Dr. Han with our colleagues at Micron. And uh again, he's already making an impact. He's already connecting, he's getting out, he's getting to to see people across the uh across the treasure valley, and he'll get across the state as that comes with time. But he's just so curious and he asks questions and he's willing to engage.

SPEAKER_02

The more you're around the guy, the more I just now I've it's it's been a few times now. I really, really like him. He's curious, he's and he's got energy, and he believes in people and relationships, and I think he's gonna be fantastic. Um I think he's gonna be fantastic. That's cool. That's cool that uh you were coming on today and it just kind of all hit. I I was able to have lunch with him, and then he went right straight from me to to to Micron and then uh you're here, so this is great.

From Small Towns To Engineering

SPEAKER_02

Um let's start where from the beginning. Tell us a little bit about you. Where'd you where'd you grow up and tell us about you getting into um engineering and your pathway?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I was born in West Virginia in a really small, unincorporated town. Um, can't even really find it on a map. So I love that. So yeah, I'm I'm from Appalachia. My my family is uh is still there, some extended family. I grew up a lot of different places, mostly small towns. So from uh from West Virginia to Western Kentucky. Um I was in Murray, Kentucky in elementary school. I was in rural Ohio in middle school, and then central Pennsylvania in high school. Um so I've gotten to see a lot of different places. I've I've continued to move. I love adventure, and I think moving a lot as a kid instilled in me that opportunity is like there's just people you haven't met yet, right? And every time you move someplace new, you get to meet new people who add something to your life in really interesting ways. So Idaho's the seventh state I've lived in West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania. Did my PhD at the University of Minnesota, worked in industry for a while before I had decided to go back to a PhD. So went back to a PhD a little bit later in my career to uh pursue this path. I uh worked at Villanova University after my PhD. I was a faculty member there for 18 years, chair of mechanical engineering, and then was recruited out to California as dean of the College of Engineering at Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo, where I spent the last seven years before coming to this job. I'm very picky.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, we love Boise, but waiting San Luis Obispo, like that's like what a great place to be.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, if I'm gonna go from San Luis Obispo anywhere, it's going to be to Boise.

SPEAKER_02

That's fantastic. Um, did you always have uh a love of engineering? And I mean, it takes a special. I mean, I remember going through the sciences, and uh I I I I I had a really great high school teacher, his name was Trey Sayes. And so I remember he was so good at he taught he taught my trigonometry and calculus, and then when I went to college, I didn't have to go to class because he taught me all that stuff before, but I think he made it easy. But there was a certain part where I hit physics where I'm like, uh It's hard. This is not I've kind of wanted to I I remember studying for the MCAT, and I remember I just praying that there wasn't electronics on the physics part of the MCAT, and that's all there was, and I felt horrible about it, but I ended up passing. But but anyway, did you always have a love for it?

SPEAKER_00

I my mom would say I was a born builder. Okay. So maybe maybe I could have gone into the trades, maybe I could have gone into building, but I was just one of those kids that always wanted to build something. I'm I'm very active, I'm always doing something with my hands, um, can't really sit still. Um, so I was always kind of channeled in those ways, an outdoors type kid. Um and then the space program was going on, and Sally Ride went up.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00

And I remember when that happened, and I was like, oh wait, can I do that? Wow, would that be something I could do? And I'm like, well, I don't really want to be an astronaut, but I like to build things. I'm like, could I build spaceships? Like she went on a spaceship. Could I do that?

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And then I I asked my mom, there's no engineers in my family, nobody has done this before. And I'm like, how do I get to build spaceships?

SPEAKER_02

Did you know anybody?

SPEAKER_00

Nobody, nobody. So my mom's like, I don't know. I don't know what you do, but we can find out how to do it.

SPEAKER_02

Is that a great American story, though? Like for you and for so many of us that like I I just had this dream that came from an authentic place, and I and I was encouraged to chase it. What's your who was your inspiration to tell you to go for? Your mom?

SPEAKER_00

So my mom, yeah. And she's like, I have no idea who builds spaceships, but we can find out. We went to the library, right? Back in the old days. Yeah, I remember that. So we we went to the library and we looked up who the space shuttle contractors were, and I wrote letters to HR at all the space shuttle contractors, like, I'm in eighth grade. What if I want to build spaceships, what do I study? And they came back and said you should study mechanical engineering. I did. I got three letters back, and they all of them said you should study mechanical engineering. So that was what I did.

SPEAKER_02

That is an awesome story, Amy. That is cool.

SPEAKER_00

So I never I never built spaceships in the world.

SPEAKER_02

And this time you're in rural somewhere, Ohio.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And they write you back and say mechanical engineering, and you're like, that's what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, I've never heard of it. I don't know what it is, but that's what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_02

In high school, was it easy for you?

SPEAKER_00

Uh relatively straightforward. I'm a I'm a good student despite you know being a little bit distractable outdoors, but um, I can concentrate and get through things. So it's relatively easy, college harder, right? And then I got through college and I'm like, I think I just want to work for a while. Yeah, like I'm I'm done with

Data Center Cooling Without Wasting Water

SPEAKER_00

school. And I went out and I worked in the field and I did plant startups for a while, which was great.

SPEAKER_02

Probably great experience, incredible experience. And then what was your what'd you what did you do your P what was your uh thesis for in your PhD?

SPEAKER_00

So uh I'm an experimentalist. Okay, again, it goes with the like to build things. So I uh did an investigation on high-rate natural convection. Uh and it's like, you know, you heat two plates.

SPEAKER_02

It's becoming very important with data centers. I was reading your thing. I can't wait to talk to you about this.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, I we heated up plates, we created um atmospheric conditions like you would get on the on the surface of a planet. Um, we built that in the lab. I built this giant pressure vessel, we did all the testing, we did imaging. Um, it was 70 times atmospheric pressure inside the lab that I built. So yeah, it was really fascinating. So we took the data on that to the you know, designing, building, taking the data. That was that was my thesis.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but I'm like, I don't think there's a big future in you know creating high-rate currents. So I'm like, what can I do with this? And I'm like, thermal management of electronic systems. And this was back in 2000, and we were just at the point where systems were giving off more heat.

SPEAKER_02

We're gonna jump off, we're gonna jump off a lot of stuff. I'm so sorry. So I'm here for the ride. So in today's world, yeah, data center data centers are very controversial. Yeah. There's been some stuff. I mean, so first of all, um I get the controversy, and I don't think like Kevin Leary or whatever down in Utah did it himself any favors with what it what they're doing, and they chew up a tremendous amount of power. Yes. But what then you get to cooling them, right? Yeah. So you have then then your options are water, which then you're using water to cool, which is a precious resource that we have a limited supply of. Then the new cold cooling technology, though, are closed loop systems. Yes. Talk to us about this.

SPEAKER_00

So this is cooling with water, but you don't waste the water. Okay, right? You just keep using the water in the same loop, right? So you're you're coming through and and we're putting in water systems now, and where it's going to go in the future is actually boiling at the chip. And boiling at the chip is the most uh efficient way to remove heat. Um, but you can run water through, you can you can boil, you can keep it.

SPEAKER_02

What does that mean? What does boiling at the chip mean?

SPEAKER_00

So if you can get water really close to the heat source and just get it to boil, just like if you're boiling a pot of water on the stove, right? So everything stays the same temperature when you're boiling water, it stays at boiling point so it doesn't heat up.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_00

So you can just control it at one temperature.

SPEAKER_02

So if you get a if you get a chip that can function at boiling point temperature, you solve the problem.

SPEAKER_00

Or you create the fluid that will boil at the temperature of a chip, which is what you do.

unknown

I love this.

SPEAKER_00

So you match the boiling point to the chip operating test.

SPEAKER_02

How close are they to that?

SPEAKER_00

Pretty close. This is what I was doing before I became a D.

SPEAKER_02

I have a crazy question for you because I'm in the development world and I'm I'm bumping up against data center stuff for the last I become um I started with what does this mean about a year and a half ago, and then I did deep dives and I've been talking to experts and we visited sites and I'm I'm getting up speed because of a couple of sites we have. When technology catches up with the current problem, it feels to me like you're gonna figure out the cooling thing at some point. We will and it it seems to me that the chips are getting so much more uh advanced and smaller and more confined that we're spending literally billions and billions of dollars on these data centers. Is is what when does when does technology cross with that?

SPEAKER_00

I would be a little worried to just because of and I think that's where we need to get to, where we have these systems where we're not wasting water. We just recover the water, we heat the water up, we cool it. Right? We heat it up, we cool it. I don't think it's that far off. Uh I've been seeing technology advance rapidly, right? We we move, I mean, what we had 10 years ago is not what we have now. What we have to we'll have 10 years from now is what's in the lab right now, and that's what's in the lab right now, that we're not wasting water. We just reuse it, we consume it, and we reuse it. And we're not drawing from the aquifer, we're not drawing from the system.

SPEAKER_02

Is AI accelerating

Teaching AI With Critical Thinking

SPEAKER_02

these equations or processes?

SPEAKER_00

AI's in everything, right? So AI's the problem with the data centers, right? So it's creating the problem with needing all the all the chips, but AI helps us solve the problem as well. It helps us accelerate what we're doing in research.

SPEAKER_02

So you use you use it a lot?

SPEAKER_00

We use AI, so yes. So we're working right now on integrating AI through our curriculum just to make sure our students understand what's going on. It's not just a computer science thing, right? We need to have AI skills across the curriculum. And what I'm doing right now is I'm working with our industry partners. Like, what type of skills do you need? Where do you see AI going? What does that look like for you? And how do we take that and how do we integrate that back into our curriculum? Um, so it's in the curriculum, it's on the research, uh, it's on the research side of things, it's in our operations as well.

SPEAKER_02

Have you been surprised at the excel like just it seems like it's been six months to a year that it is just rocket like a rocket ship on how it's being used, when it's being used, the different options for its use. As a scientist, is it is it exciting? Is it scary?

SPEAKER_00

Is it I I think I think both. Yeah. I think as an educator, you know, trying to stay ahead of the curve and make sure we're educating students. Sometimes the students know more than we do, and we have to figure out what's going on, how do we use it effectively, what do we need to teach? It's a tool. We have to figure out how to use the tool. The tool, sometimes the tool's right, sometimes the tool's wrong. And we have to create students who still have fundamental skills, can look at an output, know whether that's right or whether that's wrong. Right.

SPEAKER_02

I was I was just telling Matthew. Um I I I use it like Google. I'm like one of the most in fact, I had Jess Flynn on my podcast a while ago, and she said, before I came on your podcast, I used I AI and I said, predict the questions that Tommy's gonna ask me. And then she said something to me. She's like, but then I feel guilty because I'm using power and resources to ask a stupid question. And for the first time ever, I'm like, I ask stupid questions all the time to this thing. In fact, if I was the AI engineer on the other side, I'm like, what is this? This like this guy's nuts. But we we we we have a place in very remote Alaska where we just did a remodel and I took nine guys up and we had a week to do a giant remodel, put in a septic tank, put in a garage, a whole bunch of stuff. But I had to feed them, and and like three days before I left on the trip, I'd been very busy. I thought I hadn't even planned a menu. So I picked up Claude and I said, I'm taking nine guys to Alaska. I only want to shop at Costco, I only want to cook on a Blackstone, and I want simple meals. And it spit out like everything, a full menu and a shopping list for Costco in like a minute. And I think and and I was proud of myself because I'm like, okay, this this is the most efficient use of AI that I've ever had.

SPEAKER_00

But but I'm but some but but your point that is that's a really good use right because that freed up your time you were able to do what you needed to do. That's how we use it as a tool.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Right? That's how you use it. But I guess your point on the science side of it is you gotta still know that, hey, it's telling you you need 25 pounds of bacon and you only need five, or exactly.

SPEAKER_00

You need to be able to look at that list and be like, yeah, that doesn't make sense, right? But these are the skills we've always taught, right? I've always in when I when I was in the classroom day in and day out, I would always have my students, when they were doing a problem, you get the answer, but I would always say have them say, is this answer do you think this answer is right? And if you don't think it's right, why don't you think it's right? And that's that critical thinking you need to assess. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02

Um within within the the research side of it, I've heard a lot in healthcare that like the discovery of new drugs or the way molecules are formulated or broken down and the way they study of how to use different bonds, covalent bonds, and those sort of things, that it's going to really speed up. Within the material side of it, do you see that uh the application in the research seems like it's going to be a very intensive and good use of it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think exactly what you're saying as you were saying, this is what you've seen on the healthcare side. I'm thinking materials. Like that's exactly the right thing. That where you can run through a lot of different iterations in a very short amount of time and narrow in. It's expensive to do computational studies, it's computationally expensive, it's expensive to build prototypes, right? And if we can narrow in on the most promising ones first, we can get there a lot faster.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. Hey, you said you wanted to build spaceships. Talk to us about the advances in that technology and what your thoughts are.

SPEAKER_00

The space program has gone in some really interesting ways. I think that um space science is fascinating and trying to think what we're what we're trying to do and what we're trying to accomplish. I'd love to see uh you know more effort paid on the actual science behind it, the science and engineering. And I think about things like the the Mars rover and what went into that being created. Um we've made helicopters that can fly in Martian atmospheres, right? And the engineering and the science that goes into that, and how does that how does that work and what can we continue to do? I think that's fascinating. I think uh the space program will always also serve, like it did for me, as an entry point for our children, right? To think about what can I do, what type of impact can I make? And that's where manned space flight, I think, plays a big role in that, and you see people going up. We just had the Artemis astronauts up, and that was really exciting, right? And people got galvanized around it, and it's fun to see. Um, but the science itself is still advancing. And in fact, Boise State Engineering just sent our first experiment up onto the uh onto the space station. So the space station's still there. We've still got experiments going on that, and one of our faculty members and uh some of their students just recently attended a launch and got to see their experiment go up to the Space Center. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02

Do you, as an engineer and scientist, um I just read a book uh um on Elon Musk. Not uh any of the controversial stuff, but just like does it ever like I think sometimes of like I was just up in as remote of a place on the planet Earth and I had a Starlink and I was completely connected. And then I look at Tesla, I look at SpaceX, and I look at Neuralink. Does it does it as a scientist, are you as in awe as I am of of all of the stuff?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I think Space Link is really just a game changer, right? Like like you said, like you had access in remote Alaska. We couldn't do that any other way. We watched some.

SPEAKER_02

We watched the UFC fights up there, and I'm like, I'm sitting in I'm sitting in the middle of nowhere with bears and salmon watching the UFC.

SPEAKER_00

And and that's just incredible to have that technology. And yes, I think he's you know moved a lot of technology forward in a short amount of time and gotten people excited about it.

SPEAKER_02

What do you think his what do you think his magic is of of doing it where so many just doing so much so quickly? Is it the teams he puts together?

SPEAKER_00

I do think it's the teams he puts together. I think he brings together people who really strongly believe in the mission and want to do something inspirational. They want to change the world. And there's a lot to that. I I think it's I think people burn out after a while. I think that's a hard-driving field

Space Tech Starlink And Mission Driven Teams

SPEAKER_00

to be in, but I think it it can be magic when it works well.

SPEAKER_02

Talk uh, because you're on it, talk about the importance of teams in your role as dean of your college.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, teaching students how to be an engineer, and we get we get students in, and I think it's a really common misconception that engineers just kind of sit behind a desk and play on their computer and don't work in teams, and there's just nothing you can accomplish by yourself these days. So our students are working in teams in almost every class that they're taking. We try to integrate in hands-on work, that they're building prototypes, that they're working together. But if they can't work together effectively as a team, they're not going to be a good engineer or even a computer scientist. They have to be able to build that teamwork. So that's something our faculty and I value really heavily. How do we integrate those teamwork skills into our curriculum and make sure our students are ready to go out and work effectively in teams?

SPEAKER_02

And with within within follow-up question, within your world of students and jobs and technology and AI, what are you seeing down the pipe? What are you seeing as far as jobs that where does the human element remain essential?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there's always gonna be a need for that human element. There's gonna be some things like like we said with uh automating, how many experiments do we need to go through? Can you give me input on running through these systems, right? In every job, there's gonna be some aspect of that that we can automate. There's always been tools that are gonna automate something. Um, I think the the advent of AI is as transformational as the advent of the internet. Like, can how how did we work before the internet? Like, I'm not not even sure, right? Um, and AI is gonna be as transformational. It's just gonna make jobs different skills. There's always gonna be jobs, there's we're always gonna need people in these in these jobs, and it's bringing that critical eye, that critical aspect, making sure that the work that we're getting done is is right. Yes, making sure we're thinking critically and pointing things in the right direction, but we're never gonna be without that human element.

SPEAKER_02

So I've done a few deep dives on this. Well, so so first of all, I think within the trades, which we hit on, for for people like me that are more simple-minded, I think, oh, I can see that. You're always gonna need a plumber, you're always gonna need an electrician, you're always gonna need a welder. Well, maybe you probably have some machines that could do some of that stuff, but I think it's more hands-on stuff that that's probably farther out. When I think of uh technical jobs, there's one school of thought that technology, AI, is going to make humans so much more productive that they're going to be able to just their their individual GDP or their ability to create stuff is going to be so much higher that it's not like you're going to lose jobs, you're just going to be more productive. Then there's the other school of thought that's like, no, you will be replaced.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It sounds like you're more in the camp of, hey, we're going to become more productive and you still need this.

SPEAKER_00

I'm I'm in the camp that this is a tool. Yeah. And we've adapted to new tools as they have come onto the scene before. And I think that's so reassuring. I think this is transformational, but I think it's a new tool, like the internet.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Are we better off? Maybe. I mean, it's debatable, right? Oh, I think with the internet. I think we're better off with the internet, I think, in the end. But we're in this point where everything's changing and it just feels very uncertain.

SPEAKER_02

It does feel very uncertain. And it's it feels faster even this time. Which I think is what happens with technology. I think if you look at human history, and you can speak to this better than I can, but you know, the advent of refrigeration and what that did to the the traditional family farming industry. You look at the automobile, you look at you know, just every every major thing, it was over time, right? And then you had the iPhone in 07, right? And and it seems like that happened. You had the internet before, but but this feels faster than that to me.

SPEAKER_00

I I think the world is just accelerating around us, and technology continues to advance, but it it's up to us to figure out how to use that technology right, how to integrate technology with society in the way that makes sense to us. So we have to think about that. And how do we educate students to think critically, not just about the technology, about the impact of the technology? So we have a school of computing, and it has one of its pillars is the intersection of technology and society. So we're looking carefully at that. We have faculty, we have students, you know, working at that interface. What is the impact, right? Where should we be, where should we be working in an ethical way, right? How do ethics come into this? How does society come into this? We need smart people who can think thoughtfully about these topics.

SPEAKER_02

Talk to us more about that side of it. I'm sure you have some deeper thoughts.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's really interesting, right? Where technology impacts society and what does that look like? And should we be using it everywhere? Should we not be using it everywhere? I'm a big fan of

Ethics Society And Unplugged Childhood

SPEAKER_00

unconnected childhood, right? And and how far down do we push technology and learning? We have to we have to focus on fundamentals, we have to make sure children get outdoor time, they get unstructured time, get time away from screens. Um, so yeah, I think there's ethical aspects to what we're looking at.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, huge I have grandkids now, and I and I just I think about you know, uh where my kids are the older two, no phones, almost no technology, the younger two phones and technology. Now look at my grandkids who know how to swipe and do stuff. I'm like, wait a minute, or my my six-year-old cash, he'll come up and like put my phone in my face because he's gonna download a new gamer app or whatever. I mean, they know how to use this stuff and they're so smart. And and and and there's also the educational side of it, but my daughter is super, super um, I I I would be much more loose in my timelines that I let them on, but she's like very, but I think it that that that that has to happen.

SPEAKER_00

It's a balance, right? We have to be thoughtful about technology and how we're using it. And um I I'm thinking about my own daughter who's an adult, like like your older ones. And uh when she was a child, I would send her to nature camp. And I I dropped her off at nature camp one day, and they were forecasting rain. And I'm like, what are you guys gonna do? Because it's gonna rain today. And the counselor said, Well, I think we're gonna go outside and lay down in the meadow and let it rain on us. Oh, wow. And I'm like, that's amazing. I wish I was doing that with you today. And sometimes we just need that beach box, right? Yeah, yeah. And and that's important for our kids.

SPEAKER_02

I had a I mean, I had a chance again. I'm fresh off this trip last night to Alaska, but um that was a little different because it it never gets dark right now up there. So we had 24 hours a day to do stuff. But before that, I was in McCall and a couple of crystal clear nights up there, and just the grandeur of nature, like looking up at a pitch black sky in McCall and just wondering, we're so small, and this is so big. It just and then you're up, you know, seeing the Denali range and all those mountain ranges there, and you just it feels so big up there, you're like, oh, I feel small again. That's a good feeling to have sometimes to put in perspective. And I don't know that we get enough of that.

SPEAKER_00

It really is, and I think it's really important, and then we should feel that we should protect this, right? This has been entrusted to us, right? And how do we how do we make sure we're protecting that? And maybe pass that on. Maybe that same weekend you were in McCall. My husband and I were in one of the Idaho City Yurts. Uh it was just two weekends ago. And uh again, it gets gets dark late, so we set an alarm for 3 a.m. And we got up at 3 a.m. and went outside, and it's just stunning. And we're in this really special, beautiful place, and the grandeur of that is amazing.

SPEAKER_02

This this will sound totally corny because I'm such a I I cry. I watched two movies on the way home on the plane last night and I cried through both of them, and my my brother-in-law said to my movies, why are you crying? Anyway, I cry easy. But I when my son uh served a mission for our church, he was in Finland, and I used to take the garbage out um every Sunday night. Monday was our garbage day. And I've got these like very spiritual experiences where I take the garbage out and I'd look up at the sky and I would think to myself, oh, he's under the same sky.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's amazing, right?

SPEAKER_02

And I I used to just feel close to him and I would sit out there for a while and just look up there and I'd get big tears in my eyes. I think, oh, I hope you're looking right now at the same sky. But those are the things that connect us, right? Those are things that, and I and I just hope, I hope, I I don't know. I think we have to be more intentional nowadays than we used to be because of technology, that we fill those things. It's interesting that I have a scientist engineer here, and we're talking about this good stuff, and I love it.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, scientists and engineers are not one-dimensional, right? We're we're people and we live in the same world and we want to protect it just like everybody else. And what I hope is that we can use technology and science and engineering and our know-how to do that, right? And you'll see the faculty at Boise State, and they're really excited about these opportunities. And a lot of them are working on topics that are really important to Idaho. We have uh a researcher in our civil engineering department who's working on wildfire ignition.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00

And how do you how do you predict and where where would we be able to take data to see where we think risk is highest and we could mobilize and have forces there in advance, right? To do rapid mobilization. So there's a lot of things where we can help protect the world around us, right? And that's part of what we need, part of what we need to do, and we can integrate, right, scientists and engineers and construction managers into making Idaho better, and that's what we're here to do.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. Can I ask you, uh, shifting gears a little bit?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Where because I'm dying, there's I have I have a list of things to ask you. One is internationally, do you like how do how are we stacking up? You're the you're the dean of our engineering. Yes. So we I how how do we compete with China? Let me just get there.

SPEAKER_00

I would say China's making large investments in in science and engineering.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So we used to have we used to have a large edge, I think, in science and engineering over China. I think it's drawing, drawing closer, um, if not even, or maybe even China drawing ahead in some areas. So I think we have to think thoughtfully about a country as to what we want to invest in. How do we make sure that we are leading edge, right? We've always been the world leader as the United States in science and technology. That has been the case for a very long time. And I think it's part of our national security to make sure that we maintain that edge. I think Boise State itself has a has a very strong reputation internationally. Um I've been uh lucky enough in the past year to travel with uh with some of my faculty members, with uh with Idaho Commerce, with partners from Micron. Um we have partnerships in Japan, um, we have partnerships in Taipei. Um we're taking Idaho kids who are learning engineering and science and letting them spend the summer at Tohoku University in Japan. We've got students there right now. And I think these are the types of experiences that are transformational and they see what's going on in the world and how do we bring that back to Idaho and how do we create new companies here that are really gonna change the world. But I think we have these partnerships. It's not too late. I mean, we've got these partnerships, and we've got students are excited, and people internationally recognize that Boise State. I say, when you think Boise State, I want you to think Blue Turf and I want you to think microelectronics, and that's who we are and where we can be the best in the world on.

SPEAKER_02

That was a setup question for this one because I think in the legislature with constant pressures on budgets, mostly this time, big big tax cut, reconciliation of the big beautiful bill, kind of okay, everyone's getting cut. Um I I just hope that we are able to articulate the importance of higher education for lots of reasons, but specifically within science and technology of we gotta keep up. We gotta keep it it so there's two ends of it, right? One is the one is the we need these jobs here. We need our families in Idaho to have an opportunity for their kids in Idaho to stay in jobs in Idaho. I mean that that connects. I hear that one, that one's pretty easy to talk to. But but I think the other end of this is we need hire, we need our own scientists, we need our own people that compete on the world stage that are homegrown here for lots of other reasons. Speak to that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

And I think what we want to do at Boise State is provide those opportunities for Idaho kids to be able to get a world-class education, to be recognized on the world stage that they're getting an education that's tops in class, and then be able to use that here in Idaho to make our life better. And if I look at it, we we've got a lot of different majors within uh our the College of Engineering, everything from construction management to materials to computer science to artificial intelligence. Um and the demand is high. Idaho uh uh companies are asking us to produce more graduates. They need more graduates, they want Idaho students who were raised here who want to work here. We do bring in um the college has about a third out-of-state graduates, and what we find

Engineering Research That Protects Idaho

SPEAKER_00

is those out-of-state graduates are also hired by Idaho companies. So they come here, they stay here.

SPEAKER_02

Do you know how amazing that is? Because if I've been here, I'm getting old now. And if you go back to early, early times, I was on a bunch of boards. The big issue was wages and kids leaving and not having a place to land here. We're very blessed that the way this thing's turned out is one, this is a desirable place to live. Two, Boise State I you go back to the Great Recession. And during the Great Recess Recession, it was when Boise State really put its foot on the gas during the custry years and said, We are going to be the state's university, we're gonna be an urban university, we're gonna embrace everything going on with Boise, and they kept thriving when everyone else was in the fetal position. So that's one key thing. And then you had Micron through great, you know, homegrown, growing. You look at some of the HP spin-off businesses that have happened here. There's just been there's been some really good things that have happened here with technology, a lot of great companies here that have happened. Um but we gotta make sure we keep the higher ed funding where it needs to be.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. We've got high demand.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, it's micron, yes, and it's not just micron. Uh for micron, we have we have 1,800 Boise State College of Engineering grads working for Micron.

SPEAKER_02

Um what a number.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's you know, it's we're the largest university by far providing uh Micron's talent. They're gonna continue to need more talent. Um, they are are estimating 3,500 new jobs in the next few years, engineering and scientists. Um, so they're asking us can we produce more graduates? They want people who are from here, want to stay here, want to work in in Idaho. But it's not just Micron. We have uh eight industry advisory boards across the college for each of our different majors. We have 111 different companies represented. Every one of those companies is looking for graduates. Um, construction management, our enrollment has gone up 30% in the past basically three years. Um, we need to be able to invest in that program because not only is there student interest in the program, there's employer interest in the program. So this year we graduated 96 construction management students. We had a career fair, 118 companies buying to hire those 96 grad. They're like, wow, can you produce more? As enrollment has gone up, we need to invest in the program. This is here to help Idaho, right? That's what we're trying to do. So investing in our programs, particularly where there's growth, there's demand from students, there's demand from employers, we can fill that niche. We can be the matchmaker, right? We can create that workforce, but we need to have the resources to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02

Again, it's that line of sight. And and it's you know, I wish we had a better way to track ROI. Think about you So I'm just sitting here in my head doing the math, thinking about eighteen hundred kids trained at Boise State, staying in this economy, paying taxes, living in this community, and what the ROI is for. For having those programs here versus, and I know this I I it's a different thing, but but I know you kind of you have relationships where you trained. I mean that's just that's just life. So most of the time you go and you get jobs on the side and people are working through college, you're making relationships, you're much more likely to stay where you train.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02

But just the way it is. And so um I w you know, I wish it was an easier way to walk into the legislature and say, hey, here's the o ROI on these dollars that are going to these different things. And I think Dr. Hahn talked about this today. He's been successful in not asking for just general dollars, but for specific dollars that attach to specific programs and specific things that give a that they give a kind of calculable uh ROI.

SPEAKER_00

And and I think construction management is one of those. I mean, it's it just makes sense

Global Competition And Funding The Workforce

SPEAKER_00

right now. There there's gonna be a demand for this. We want to grow this, we want to grow this program.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. What are what are what are some things we would be surprised about on your department or your uh uh things that you produce?

SPEAKER_00

I I think it's just it's just so wide and varied. The the programs that we have. We started a new degree program this year in uh AI science. So we're we're constantly looking out and trying to see where uh where the fields are going, what types of new programs do we need. So that was at our undergraduate level. We're actually starting a master's degree program this coming fall, and it's a master's degree in applied AI. Oh, wow. So you don't need a technical background, you don't have to have uh a degree in engineering or computer science to do it. It's we're looking at reskilling, right? Reskilling, upskilling AIs, changing the way we work. How do we do some upskilling and reskilling of our current workforce here in Idaho? Um so we're also always looking at these things. We have certificate programs that align with industry interests. We created semiconductor processing certificate that we worked on on Micron with. Um and I think, you know, when people sometimes come into our into our college and they look around, they don't understand how hands-on engineering is, right? And it's not just sitting behind a computer and and running a bunch of calculations. Um we have a we have a full machine shop. So our students learn how to operate a lot of machine shop uh equipment. And when I came in, I said, this is great. We're training our students. Have we trained our faculty? Have we given them that opportunity to learn how these pieces of equipment work? Can they work a lathe, right? Can they work a mill? And uh I was told, I don't think our faculty want to do machine shop training. And I'm like, have we asked them? And we ran a workshop last summer and uh initial preparations, they're like, oh, we'll get like five to six faculty. We had 30 just signed up, came in in the summer, they got their machine shop training. Um, I went through the training, I've done it multiple times at different institutions. I know how to weld, I know how to use a laser cutter, but we've got students doing this, and uh these types of skills are being integrated across our curriculum. And it kind of goes back to what we were talking about with technicians and engineers, and it's an ecosystem, and everybody needs to work together, right? And I think it's really important for engineers to be able to understand how we actually put things together, how do we actually build things? It goes back right to my love of building. You need to know how it fits together. You can't design it if you don't know how it's gonna be built, right? So, this integration of these hands-on skills and this practical education and alignment with industry, it's really core to what we do.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. Um, what are ways you're attracting are because I think I think the misconception is one, but reaching down to those kids in high school. I know you guys do a tremendous job at that in the way you recruit and get exposure to what Boise State has to offer. Do you want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's we do a lot of outreach activities. We try to get students in high school, but it's more important to get them in the middle schools, right? And that's where we see the drop-off, right? We we see the drop-off is between fifth and sixth grade. Usually the interest in engineering is science. And you can just kind of pinpoint it to that, to that area. So we really reach out to that middle school group and continue that uh can ask them to continue engaging. Um, we have uh we have a chip camp where students can come in, uh, middle schoolers, and learn about uh semiconductor processing. How do you build a chip? So it's a week-long chip camp. We have other uh hands-on science camps, but we have uh a program that we've been working uh on, and it was in partnership originally with Idaho Workforce Development Council called Semiconductor for All, and we have a lot of K-12 activities, and we have chip ambassadors who are our own undergrad students who go out into local classrooms and they talk to students and they show them what you can do with semiconductor careers. And over the past few years, we've uh we've reached out and worked with more than 22,000 K-12 students in Idaho.

SPEAKER_02

Wow, think about that. 22,000 that's incredible. Um, one other statistic I wanted to make sure that I got to that 50% of projected new Idaho jobs by 2032 will be related to engineering, construction, and computer science.

SPEAKER_00

Let that sink in for a minute. Yeah, it's a study Idaho Department of Labor did at 50% of new jobs.

SPEAKER_02

50% of new Idaho jobs by 2032, it's only four years, six years from now, will be related to engineering, construction, and computer science.

SPEAKER_00

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

These are the things we need to just be screaming from the rooftops to the legislature to make sure that we protect what we have with this. That's that's just incredible. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we're we're here to be a resource for Idaho. That's what we're trying to do. We need students to fill these jobs.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I love how connected. One of the things that I just I I think we're just so blessed to have Boise State in the position you are in our I mean, it's just the heart, it's the front porch of the state, the front porch of the Treasure Valley. But it's so integrated, so incredibly integrated with our business community. Um and I think that has been a great job by by everyone at Boise State, just making sure that they got the that line of sighting in between the business community and the families that are here to keep our kids here. Um, it's it's amazing, but it's it's a tremendous amount of work and effort goes into that.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's very intentional. I spend a lot of my time doing outreach, meeting with uh industry partners. We have industry partners for the college. Like I said, we have 132 individuals representing 111 companies that are advising us day in, day out on what we need to do to make sure we're creating graduates that uh fill the jobs in Idaho. Um I work on uh Idaho Technology Council. I'm just trying to be out there in the community listening, hearing what's going on, bringing that back, and making sure that there is this alignment. We're not working in isolation, we're working in partnership with everybody in Idaho. Um I've been in Idaho a year and a half. I have traveled around the state. I think I've been to most of the major areas. I've I've been to INL, um, we've had INL on campus multiple times. We have partners in uh in in uh um Idaho Falls in Pocatello. I've been to Moscow, I've been up to uh even up to Pullman and trying to pull in in people from Washington. So, you know, we we've got partners across across the state. Actually, one of our companies that we met with in Pullman, SEL is uh expanding their footprint

New AI Degrees Labs And K 12 Outreach

SPEAKER_00

here in Boise. So we were there to talk to them about what that what that looks like. So SEL um currently has 50 uh people working in Boise. They're gonna go to 600. So and it's it's it's electrical engineering.

SPEAKER_02

It's I toured I toured their facility when I was running for governor, and it's unbelievable. It's amazing. It's a great company. It's a great company, and I I didn't know that they were doing that. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00

They're expanding because people want to be here. This is where there's a vitality in what we're doing here.

SPEAKER_02

Well, hey, that I told you this would go by really fast.

SPEAKER_00

This has been great.

SPEAKER_02

Awesome. Thank you for what you do. Um, I am a proud member of Bronco Nation. I love the fact that this university makes such a difference for Idaho. Um, and I'm just thrilled that you're here. Everyone loves you, and and everyone that meets you knows why.

SPEAKER_00

It's a pleasure. I I love Idaho. I I feel like I've I've you know come home in a in a certain way, and and I'm glad that Idaho has welcomed me.

SPEAKER_02

Well, now you'll have uh Dr. Hahn who will be probably just I mean, he's gonna you're gonna be drinking each other's Kool-Aids as you take this. It's a rocket ship, man. It's taken off. I can feel it.

SPEAKER_00

That that's why I came here. That's why Dr. Hahn uh is coming, and I think it's gonna be a really incredible partnership, and I can't wait for more people to see what Boise State Engineering can do.

SPEAKER_02

I love

Final Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_02

your origin story too. I like ending on the rocket ship. What a great story. Eighth grade. It's always a rocket ship. I want to just know how this happened. It's great. Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, everybody.