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Ever Onward Podcast
The Ever Onward Podcast is your go-to business podcast, offering engaging discussions and diverse guests covering everything from business strategies to community issues. Join us at the executive table as we bring together industry leaders, experts, and visionaries for insightful conversations that go beyond the boardroom. Whether you're an entrepreneur or simply curious about business, our podcast provides a well-rounded experience, exploring a variety of topics that shape the business landscape and impact communities. Brought to you by Ahlquist.
Ever Onward Podcast
Idaho’s Water Problem Is Bigger Than You Think - Zak Miller | Ever Onward - Ep. 138
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In this episode of the Ever Onward Podcast, Tommy Ahlquist sits down with Zach Miller, Executive Vice President and CEO of the Idaho Farm Bureau Federation and a fifth-generation Idaho farmer and rancher from eastern Idaho.
Zach shares his background growing up in agriculture, his family’s farming and ranching operation, and the path that eventually led him to represent farmers and ranchers across the state through the Idaho Farm Bureau Federation.
The conversation also looks at the Idaho Farm Bureau’s new Boise office near the State Capitol, why having a stronger presence in Boise matters, and the role the organization plays in giving Idaho agriculture a voice on major policy issues.
From there, Tommy and Zach dive into some of the biggest challenges facing agriculture today, including Idaho’s water supply, aquifers, water rights and drought conditions; beef prices and the cattle cycle; public lands, grazing and multiple-use management; wolves, grizzly bears and the Endangered Species Act; and the ongoing challenges surrounding agricultural labor and immigration policy.
Throughout the conversation, Zach brings both a policy perspective and firsthand experience from a family that has been farming and ranching in Idaho for five generations.
They also discuss why agriculture remains such an important part of Idaho’s economy, culture and identity—and why decisions being made today around water, land, labor and regulation will have a lasting impact on the next generation of Idaho farmers and ranchers.
This episode kicks off a three-part Ever Onward series focused on Idaho agriculture. Zach will join Tommy as co-host for upcoming conversations with Idaho Farm Bureau President Matt Dorsey and Miguel Villafana, owner-operator of Villafana Farms and a senior commercial lender at Zions Bank.
Topics include:
• Idaho Farm Bureau and its role in agriculture
• Zach Miller’s fifth-generation farming and ranching roots
• The new Idaho Farm Bureau Boise office
• Idaho water rights, aquifers and drought
• Snowpack and the future of Idaho’s water supply
• Beef prices and the cattle cycle
• Public lands, grazing and multiple-use management
• Wolves, grizzly bears and predator management
• Agricultural labor and immigration
• The future of farming and ranching in Idaho
Follow the Ever Onward Podcast for more conversations with leaders, entrepreneurs and people helping shape the future of Idaho.
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Welcome Zach Miller And The Series
SPEAKER_01Today, we welcome on the Ever One Word podcast Zach Miller. He's the Executive Vice President and CEO of the Idaho Farm Bureau Federation. Zach is an incredible friend and a lot to learn from this guy. He's the been the executive vice president and CEO for six years for the Idaho Farm Bureau Federation. He's a fifth generation Idaho farmer and rancher from Parker, Idaho. His family operation produces potatoes, grains, uh ranching, uh, has an incredible background uh for generations of farming. He's also a shareholder in True West Beef. Um he graduated from Brigham Young University, Idaho. Uh Zach has an incredible deep knowledge. Zach will be my co-host this month, uh, first with Matt Dorsey next week, who is the uh president of the uh Idaho Farm Bureau. And then the following week with Miguel Villafana, who's a farmer, owner operator for Villafana Farms and a senior commercial lender at Zions Bank. So for the next three weeks, we'll be talking about all things farming in Idaho. Hope you enjoy it. For all those listening to our podcast, please like, follow us, and give us a review. We really appreciate you listening. Uh, today is Zach Miller from the Idaho Farm Bureau Federation. Buddy, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, man. Been trying to do you're a hard guy to get scheduled.
SPEAKER_02That's funny coming from you.
SPEAKER_01No, this will be fun. I really appreciate you. Zach Miller, uh, thanks for coming on and and chatting with us about all things uh farm bureau. Yeah. What have you been up to? I haven't seen you for a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Which is kind of a bummer for me because I always like it when I get to hang out with you, but just busy. And I know that's funny when I'm talking to guys like you, like who isn't. Yeah, it's fun though, isn't it? But it's it's fun in a weird way because in Agland right now, everybody's busy, but it's in a hard way. Yeah. But for me personally, the Farm Bureau's doing great. Our project we're working on is exciting.
Why A New Boise Office Matters
SPEAKER_02It's so fun. Let's start there.
SPEAKER_01It's been fun. I I was trying to think, uh, thinking about you coming on today. We started working together on that. It's got to be four years ago. I'm thinking four. Yeah. Four years ago, the initial idea came up of hey, uh, we're looking for a new building. We had a couple of buildings downtown for a long time. And man, it's been it's been fun. I mean, I think people see a project when it's coming out and then it's done. But there's so much pre-work that goes into these time, effort, proformas, and making it work and making sure that you got everything right. You know, it's like measured ten times, cut once, kind of a deal. But it's been fun. This has been one of the best ones we've ever done. So let's talk a little bit about the building. So it's it's right next to Capitol. People are starting to notice now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm getting we're we're getting that on our end too. So it's exciting.
SPEAKER_01So we did the demo and now we're starting to go vertical. I think still comes uh, I think this next couple weeks or so, right?
SPEAKER_02I think I read it's either next week or the week after. So yeah, masonry's getting done. Like you can actually see there's something there for a minute. It looked like maybe we were doing a homeless encampment thing, like it was a little bit like an abandoned lot, hole in the ground. We're like people are susking, like, how are you really doing it? It's good now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's gonna go, it'll go well. I love this first part too. It it when they start putting up still, it goes really fast, and they're like, Oh, great. And then you realize you gotta do all the finishes on the inside. So uh, no, it's great. So, this will be your new uh corporate headquarters for the Farm Bureau here in Boise. Yeah, you have your facility over in Pocatello.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so the headquarters of Farm Bureau is in Pocatello, and we have that beautiful building on the hill in Pocatello, we've been there forever, but this will be our Boise location.
SPEAKER_01Everyone's seen that one too when you go up and down I-15 right there. It's a beautiful building. That's that's where home base is, right? And then here you've had kind of a smaller, older kind of office here for a long time. Boy, the guys here are gonna die and go to heaven when they have this new place.
SPEAKER_02Well, they the the biggest challenge we have is we don't even know what we don't know. We don't even know how to function in a new space. So that's where, again, your team and others were like, okay, we have ideas, but our ideas are about 20 years old, so just help us know how to really use this space because we're excited for that. But yeah, this is gonna be and it's capital eccentric, it's right next to the Capitol, and that's really one of the points. Is we're all throughout the state, but Boise is where the laws happen, and you need to have a place, you need to have place near, and we've always had that. And over time, we need we've been able to buy, started with a third of the block, then we bought up to half the block. And so that's what really triggered us to say, you know, now we've got the economies of scale, that if we do a project, it can be a real project. And that's where you came in and really that that the concept we had that as a bunch of farmers, but bringing you in and boy oh boy was that lucky because Boise's commercial uh, you know, in an urban setting, you don't just go out and start digging a hole with a backhoe. Like there's so much that goes into that, and that's been an interesting thing.
SPEAKER_01And then you got to get through the city of Boise, right? Right. And and that's always we had our challenges. I mean, it's that whole design review process. I've I complain about it all the time on this podcast, but we had old Russ Hendricks all fired up.
SPEAKER_02You know, he that was red meat for him. He was, in fact, I think he's still a little bit bummed because that was like, let's go get it. I mean, that's one of the cores of what Farm Bureau is is private property, being able to do what you do, and if you play by the rules, you check the boxes, you should be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01Let's go a little deeper for listeners.
Boise Design Review And Property Rights
SPEAKER_01So, so boy very few jurisdictions have like a design review committee, and what they are supposed to be doing is tying back to code. So you should have code in a city that makes sure you're safe, says these are in general the things we want to see, and then you uh apply your application, you work with city staff, and then you get your building permit. Well, in Boise, they have one other layer called design review. So I think the big rub for everyone is you sit and meet with city staff literally for months, three, four months, them telling you, hey, change this, do this, access point here, cover it this way, these are the material types. I mean, you spend a lot of time, and this whole time your architect is, you know, trying to be as good as they can to really harmonize with the vision of the city, and you're trying to, at the same time, trying to get a building you want, right? I mean, this is gonna be a hundred-year building for you guys, right? So Farm Bureau Federation spends all this time. I mean, you guys put a lot of homework in. Right. You went on field trips. Hey, what do we want our building to look like? Do we want it to be glass? Do we want it to be uh tan? Do we want it to be brown? Do we want it to be beige? How do we want it to entrance? What do we want it to fill and look like next to the Capitol? So you do all that, and then the city staff works with you. Well, then you go to this magical thing called design review, right? So you go in there and you get some of these people that are just super opinionated, but it's not tied to code, it's not tied to what the staff. So the staff fully recommended our application. And then you get there and they say, Well, we don't like this because I don't like it. What do you mean you don't like it? Well, that's just not my preference. I don't like the color of the building. I don't like this, I don't like that. And it has nothing to do with anything. It's super irritating because you can't go forward until that happens.
SPEAKER_02And it's all out of your pocket, too. They can have their opinion and you write the check. That was an aha moment for us in not a great way. It's like, wait, what? We we again, your team, we walked through, we checked all the boxes, we've done it to spec. And I mean, we live with pole barns, hay barns, correls, like we get spec, right? Like we get functionality. So we can meet to that, and then you're saying it's just not pretty enough. Well, according to who? Yeah. But it's according to you, but it's according to but I pay for what you want, and that was that's irritating.
SPEAKER_01And then they meet every month, so they say no. They can't just say no. It actually, you know, in theory, it would be better if they just said, hey, pound sand, and then you could appeal it to city council, because at least those people are elected. So then you could go sit in front of elected city council members and say, hey, this is this is BS, but they don't say that. They say, Hey, we don't like this, that, and the other. Go back to the drawing board and come back in a couple months. So then you go to the drawing board, you come back in a couple months, ah, you're not quite there yet. Come back in a couple months. And this whole time you're paying your architect making changes that you don't really like because you like the color of your building going into this, and then ultimately you either get to a point where you say, Okay, we're at an impasse, now I'll go to city council, or they approve it. Anyway.
SPEAKER_02No, I'll I'll just end with this. Your guys are amazing because that came up, not knowing anything about this. And I says, Well, do I need to be in the meeting? And Ryan says, You're good. So I'm sitting at home in Rigby watching YouTube, and my my daughters are coming like, Dad, what is going on? And I'm like, I'm where I need to be. It's really wise that I'm here where I am, because he had, I mean, your team handled it well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, right, Ryan Cutler should get a shout out. He's he's our um VP of development, and he he's he comes from that world. He worked in in the public world, so he uh he's very patient. Um, he he understands how to get through the process, where guys like us would probably be like, What?
SPEAKER_02Doesn't that make sense? A couple hundred miles of distance was a wise thing at that time.
SPEAKER_01And then you start then you start button heads, and that doesn't go anyway. We're really excited. I can't wait, Zach, uh, to see it come to fruition. We got some really cool things we're doing in the building that I think we're not ready for like releasing prime time yet. But I am I um we do a lot of buildings. I'm more excited about this space than almost anything we've ever done or going to do. I'm I'm just really excited. We we were spending a lot of time on it right now, getting everything right on our business plan. But the bottom line is it's gonna be a great gathering place for people that use the capital, that use our capital city, that love Idaho. There's gonna be a lot of great um uh heritage with Farm Bureau and what you're doing and your team's vision and your board's vision, really trying to make that come out in the building. What I love about space and what I do is, you know, when you have a chance, think about like all these years you've been in the temporary buildings there, they were permanent temporary buildings, but now you have a chance to create the Farm Bureau vision around you and and let the building speak to your culture. It's so cool to watch you like this become the Farm Bureau building. So it's been fun.
SPEAKER_02And I think we're so blessed. I get to talk to peers, primarily in the West, but throughout we and we say this all the time, Idaho Special. You walk in the Capitol and you just walk right in. Like that doesn't happen, and we take that for granted. And what I get excited about is I think of a farmer in Du Bois, Idaho, or Bonner's Ferry that makes the trip to Boise. And we're gonna create a space, and that's what you're helping us with, that vision that that farmer who knows exactly what it's like to be a farmer, where they're at, can now go toe-to-toe with the levers of power and make their voice heard. And that's what we get excited about.
SPEAKER_01It's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be awesome. Well, and what's been best about it, people always ask me all the time, what's your favorite project? But um, it's always about the people. Every single one has a story, and this story is one of really getting to know you, really getting to know your organization. Uh, I don't know how many board meetings we've been to, a lot.
SPEAKER_02Throughout the state, too.
SPEAKER_01Throughout the state, and just wonderful, wonderful people. And you know what it reminds me of when I did run for governor. Um, you go around and you meet with true Idahoans, like true bred, raised, and you look at agriculture as our heritage and what that leads to in work ethic, what that leads into in family values, national values, patriotism, love of this country. And that's why we love doing stuff with you guys because every board meeting, everyone you interact with, everything we've done for four years, it just it just that's the fiber of what that's what Farm Bureau is.
SPEAKER_02You don't have to work to get the passion of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's so it's just authentic. It's authentically Idaho. So that's cool. I love that. It's cool. Um, and so it's not easy right now.
SPEAKER_02No, not for my world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like I uh it's it's interesting. I've it's Caldwell Night Rodeo this week, so I've been there every night, and so I've been around a lot of people and been able to just sit and chit-chat. It's been very relaxing actually for me. But um two nights ago I was with uh uh Lieutenant Governor Bedke and just sat there for an hour talking about you know, he's he's a rancher in Oakley, Idaho, and we sat talking about water. We talked about all his challenges he's having and what what what he's up for, what this winter's gonna look like, how hard it's been. And it was, you know, it was a long, detailed discussion about what they're gonna do in their family business as a rancher. And here's our lieutenant governor, love Scott. Um, and then last night I was uh able to talk with Larry Williams, Treetop Ranches, and spent a long time talking to him about, you know, just he was telling me just about the watery because all the springs are dried. So right now, the water trucks he has just trying to keep his herd watered because not just fed, just watered right now. And he's looking at the water situation. So um I I don't want this to be neck the the the heritage of farming in Idaho is so wonderful. So I don't want to spend so too much time talking about the negatives, but it's a it's been it's tough right now for a lot of reasons. And let's start with water.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So that's that's plenty of things to talk about. And I'll just add, so I I'm the CEO of the Farm Bureau Federation, but I also come from a farm and ranch. So I it's interesting you talk about Larry Williams and Holland Water. I was just up moving cows on our allotment in Island Park on Monday. And a couple years ago, we had to put a water truck up because those springs weren't keeping up. This year we're doing water trucks. And you start doing, you know, the weight of water, there's no economic re that just is hard.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right? So I I'm living that, I feel that, and it it hurts. And that's the industry that's actually profitable at the moment, is is beef.
SPEAKER_01But before you why don't you before you go on, because I I I again I in the bio I went deep into your history, but but the one nice thing is you're the CEO of the of the Federal Farm Bureau.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
Zach’s Farm Roots And Farm Bureau’s Role
SPEAKER_01But you're also a farmer. Full I mean, talk about it, fifth generation. Uh-huh. So so talk a little bit about your upbringing and your passion for farming, and and uh you probably should tell us how you got into this role, actually, before we get going.
SPEAKER_02Well, my brother's gonna tell you that you know I'm I'm farmer adjacent because I'm here and he's actually doing it. What's your brother's name? My brother's name's Rick.
SPEAKER_01Rick, you're actually right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, he's totally right, but I drive him nuts and we go back and forth. But fifth generation, uh, so eastern Idaho is where home is for me. So primarily, you know, if you think of prototypical farming, we grow up commercial potatoes and beef cattle. And we've expanded. My dad's been pretty uh visionary. We took it from a cow calf operation, we still have the cow calf operation to finishing the cattle to the point where now we're we're a part owner or a member of a of a kill plant. So we're trying to vertically integrate. Same thing on the potatoes, we grow them, and we also have ownership in a potato warehouse, which truly I think that's why we're still in the potato business, honestly, is because in the 90s that was really consolidating. If you didn't have an outlet for your product, it didn't matter how good you grew it, you got to have an outlet. So that's where that is. Grew up on the farm, I always gravitated toward livestock. The crops were kind of boring because you plant potatoes, and in the fall, they're in the exact same place where you put them. And that just kind of was a little bit more boring for me. Cows move around, so I've gravitated more to that, got my degree in animal science and spent some time in corporate uh and really learned a lot about how Idaho works. I got to work directly in the dairy industry, which is the driver of ag in Idaho. Uh, my beef background worked with some phenomenal uh beef producers, learned about how feedlots work, learned the whole line. So when people get excited about the beef process, I've lived every bit of that. And uh just always wanted to do that. I remember my dad saying when I was growing up, like, Well, what do you want to do with your life? I'm like, Well, I want to be outside and I want to ride my horse. And I could see the furrow on his brow, like, okay, but how are you gonna feed a family on that? Which is the challenge. So life went on, and and uh so I got to do nutrition. I really got into animal nutrition and was a consultant for a while with that, and that's how I was introduced to Farm Bureau. Everyone thinks the Farm Bureau is insurance, and they should, and please, they're the best there is out there as far as insurance goes. But there's the side of where Farm Bureau Insurance started, which was the Farm Bureau Federations, which is what I represent, which is really we're the voice of agriculture. It was started in the 30s in Idaho of just farmers saying, you know, no one's listening to us in Boise and no one's listening to us in DC. So how do we come together and form a group? One of the first things they did was start an insurance company. Now we have Farm Bureau Insurance. $2,500 in the 30s could start an insurance company. I don't think you could do that today. So I found Farm Bureau just as a, you know, trying to be a farmer, trying and in a corporate world, just needing an outlet to the networking and to the voice. And I fell in love as a volunteer. And then as things just progressed, they approached me and said, Would you be interested as an employee? And I'm like, why in the world would I work for a nonprofit? I just never resonated. You're gonna go work nonprofit, you're gonna give up your your peak, because nonprofit's an awesome place, but it's a different world. And long and short of it is my family's amazing, both my brother and my dad, open opportunities open on the farm to do some of that more. My wife and daughters are amazing, and here I am today, and it's so awesome. I mean, it's not very many people I don't think that get a wake up every day and say, I'm living my dream. I get a I get to speak for farmers.
SPEAKER_01Well, you're good, you're good at it. It's almost like you're custom built for this. How long you've been the CEO? Six years now. Six years. Yeah. Yeah, because it's it's a what what I I I know you well enough now, it's pretty diverse. Because one time I I'll talk to you a lot when you're at the Capitol, yep, and you're rubbing shoulders with the elite leaders of the state, and you're in there doing all that, and then I'll call you, and you're just like like last Monday, you're like out pushing cows, and you're you're just still doing it, which listen, I I know that's probably the most enjoyable thing you do. Isn't that the best?
SPEAKER_02It's the best, especially when you get to do it with your kids. Like I have four daughters, and they are as cowy as they get, they're handy, and you get up. I mean, that's everybody has their own life. My life is with the kids.
SPEAKER_01I love that term handy. I I remember I I I've only been kind of back into doing what I'm doing for probably now eight or nine years. But the first time I heard handy, I wonder what that means, and now I know what handy means. Yeah. You know what that means. So it means you can ride a horse, you know what you're doing, you don't need to be told, and you can't.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and when the call comes, you're ready, those girls go, and you know, everybody's got their own lives, but and every you wonder, did I do the right thing with my kids? And how old are your kids? My oldest is 21, so 21, 19. So I've got one that's graduated from college and she's starting her life. I've got one that's a sophomore at ISU, one that's gonna be a junior at uh in high school, she's getting ready to go cross country, and my 11-year-old just dreams about horses every day. And the funny thing is, is you wonder, did I do enough with my kids? Well, my kids, my greatest memories with my kids have been horseback or working. We were talking about building fence the other day, and they have all those memories. I mean, that's what and I don't ever uh uh say that I'm a full-time farmer because I'm not. Those guys are a different breed than even I am. But the cool thing for me is I feel like that allows me to center back that I can know who I'm working for, and that's what's valuable to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and in your role, that connection, again, that authenticity is just critical, right? I think walk the walk, it's your family, and it's pass that's the I'm not trying like we're around a lot of different companies and a lot of different industries. We are, but when you're around your group, your board, I mean you you got guys that literally come straight from the field into those board meetings. They're they're family people, they love this state. I mean, the passion around Idaho and what we stand for, and it's it's crazy. So I can I'm just listening to you, they would have to have a CEO that actually is that. Well, I not just understood that, but is that right? You gotta you gotta it's gotta be in your DNA, right?
SPEAKER_02I I feel blessed. I the people I get to work with, the the work I get to do in the industry I get to represent is just phenomenal for me. So it's lucky.
SPEAKER_01That was a good real positive
Idaho Water Rights Aquifers And Drought
SPEAKER_01thing. Let's talk water now.
SPEAKER_02Okay. We don't have enough.
SPEAKER_01We don't have enough.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And the sad thing is, is if you talk to someone from Utah right now, like I remember a while back, we were looking at one of the dams and looking at the flow of the Snake River before it goes in the Columbia, and I was with a bunch of Western state people and are like, there's more water right here than my entire state has. Like, we have water, and we're so unique in our geography because yeah, the snake originates in Wyoming, but it's our water.
SPEAKER_01Talk a little bit about the sovereignty of water because people don't realize. I mean, I I know there's a big election right now going on, you know, with Rish up again, and I freaking love that guy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you've made you've mentioned that before.
SPEAKER_01He's he's but but they're renegotiating right now Columbia, the Columbia River Agreement. So just so everyone understands, like here we are, Little Idaho, uh, right, meaning population-wise, and we're up against some big states that are downstream for us that want water worse than anything.
SPEAKER_02And another foreign country, too, that we gotta deal with, yeah, Canada.
SPEAKER_01Another foreign country. And we've got at in at the highest level people really well positioned because of seniority trying to help negotiate on behalf of Idaho so that we keep because that's that's that's an important negotiation.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And uh, you know, that's that goes to foreign affairs because Canada comes into that, and that really goes back to Portland. Um, you know, it's funny, those dams keep Portland, and I probably shouldn't say this, but sometimes I wonder if Portland couldn't really benefit from really good wash. Maybe if they get flooded and just cleaned everything out, Portland would be better. But we're obviously not gonna do that. But that goes back to that whole treaty, the Snake River's tributary to Columbia. That's a major waterway, and we go into so much trade, water. And for us, we have a lot of water, but where does it get used? What does it get used for? And you know, agriculture is still the baseline of all of Ag, especially all of Idaho. And if you go pretty much from what are you gonna say about Weezer South, if it's not irrigated. It's not grown. And so whether it's coming out of the ground or down the river, and it's all the same river that makes that water.
SPEAKER_01If we don't have the we don't grow up, there was a line in your thing. It was like we're a desert, we're a what do you say about a water desert or something like that?
SPEAKER_02I mean Well, think about it. I mean, when they had the Oregon Trail, they were going the Will Lamet Valley because that was just lush. And Idaho was a place to get through. If you survived Idaho, you can make it to Oregon. The water was always there, but we're an arid desert. So unless man comes and we've done what we've done with developing our irrigation systems, our water management systems, it's literally, I mean, I don't want to get too scriptural, but we've bloomed like the desert. I mean, the desert has bloomed underwater, but it's all been utilizing the resource that was always here, but we had to learn how to use that. Sagebrush is beautiful, but a potato tastes delicious. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's that's the treaty's important, water, water sovereignty is important. Um talk a little bit about the aquifers. I I didn't understand this concept uh 10 years ago.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Before I was running for governor and really did a deep dive on, okay, what does it mean? How do we know? Um, but talk about the aquifers in Idaho.
SPEAKER_02So the aquifer is fascinating, and I still don't. I mean, the mount I know isn't gonna be much. But the thing that's fascinated me is we're so unique. We were in, I was with Lieutenant Governor about a month ago. We were in Canada and we were talking about you talk about what you know, and they says, What do you do for groundwater? And they looked at us like, why would we do groundwater? We're in Canada, we're in Alberta, it's oily, like it's different geography, geology. But in Idaho, we're you know, we're sitting right now where Yellowstone used to be about where we were, and it just moved. So we're in this alluvial plain, the Snake River, basalt, we can water flows. It it uh it flows from the top to the bottom. So there's always been an aquifer, it's about the size of Lake Erie in the eastern snake plain. That always existed. But when the pioneers came and started putting water out of the channel of the river and out on what out of ground, not all that water irrigated a plant. Some of it went back into the ground and it was held there. And the aquifer isn't like a big cavern, it's like a sponge. So it's it's not like a cave down there of a true. There's a lot of water down there, but it's it's filtered through the rock. You can tell I don't know a lot, I don't know as much as I should. I think they're doing great. But as they did that old-time farming and just flooded, that built up the aquifer. And it got huge, artificially huge, um till about what, about the 50s when modern pumping came in. That's where you see the center pivots. And a lot of the desert, you know, uh, you're gonna think primarily west of I-15, all that bloomed because they could go out there, that water was always there. You pump a straw down there, and they could pump that back out, and this just rich volcanic soil that was only lacking water, just boomed. And we became what we became. We grow, you know, our dairy industry's grown, our potato industry's grown, we can do so many things. And one of the beautiful things is, you know, we have hot summers, cooler, yeah, winter or cooler nights, so we don't have the humidity, the things, we don't have the pesticides, we don't, the pests, we don't have the challenges that some of the Midwestern states do. So we can actually grow a better crop because we can control the environment more and we have less challenges of what humidity brings, the bacteria, the molds, all those types of things. So we can grow a phenomenal crop, but it all comes from the water. But when we don't have it, and so we didn't realize when I say we, the state, because the state has sovereignty over the water, you said that. So the state has the water. No one person owns water, you have the right to have water. You don't own the water. The state over in Lieutenant Governor is the one that's really have this conversation because I think he wakes up date or talking in his sleep about water.
SPEAKER_01So bless his heart. He gets he he loses me. He gets so wonky on water. He knows more, honestly. That guy knows more about water than Oh, he's forgotten more than I know.
SPEAKER_02There's no way about it.
SPEAKER_01It's it's but and it's just crazy. I'll get like 25 minutes in. I'm like, hey Scott, you lost me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, pretty much. And I've got a guy, Braden Jensen, with my team, that he's phenomenal with water. So everything I'm telling you, I've just called one of my guys and said, dude, don't let me look foolish. But going back to it, so the state overallocated about the 70s and 80s, they just said, yep, everybody can have, everybody can have. Then we realize that we've got these other challenges, and it's primarily water and fish. So the salmon. We've, you know, the tribes, we've got to deal with that, and we just have to deal with that, and everybody's got an opinion. But to the point now where a lot of water goes downstream, but it all has a name and a place for it. And so now we're at the point where we over-allocated and we have this prior appropriation doctrine, which I don't even want to get into, but basically says if you got it first, you get it first in proper in perpetuity. If you're last, you go down.
SPEAKER_01So for people that haven't ever dealt with this, this idea. So when you get a water right, so uh we you know, one good example that we've been in the news for, we just bought a bunch of land out at Samco Road. Yep, and it came with incredible water. You know, it's 1400 acre feet that it came with. It has two commercial wells already in, and it's just a great that came with the land. But it's in priority too. So you not only have to know that you have the right and what status it's in, but then you have to look at where it sits in priority, because wherever that right was protect pro perfected is how when you're out of priority, then on a drought year, you're so now they're starting to curtail those water rights.
SPEAKER_02So this is a super, this is a poor example, and I'm gonna get a lot of flack for this, but it's you're gonna get Zach's version of it. When you go to Disney, you buy a pass to get in, then you buy the fast pass. And then sometimes you buy the elite fast pass, right? Well, that's water. It's okay, you got in, you got the right. Yep, but if someone has the fast pass, that means they had it earlier, and you just get in line, and maybe you'll maybe you'll get to every ride that day, or maybe you won't, depending on where you are in priority.
SPEAKER_01It's a great analogy, and um it people don't understand this. So I'm thinking of even my place in McCall. The time I need water to irrigate for our cattle up there and water our cattle is July and August. But in in my land, and that it that right is an old right, but I'm out of priority by July 1st. Every year. Yep. So I've got a pass to get into Disneyland. I got a water right, but by July 1st, when I need it every year, I can't get on the ride. So then I have to buy from I have to purchase my additional water to be able to water my cows.
SPEAKER_02So think of it like scalping, right? You're gonna go to a scalper and buy that water.
SPEAKER_01So then up there, the water that I get in from my irrigation canal also beautifies the area because it's a it comes in off the Payette River. So all the neighbors who now have moved here from California have enjoyed the water that comes off the river that makes it look pretty, but it's irrigation water. Right. That's out of priority July 1st, and trying to explain to people hey, this is uh it's an irrigation right. That it's just no one gets it. I don't think they just it's hard to first of all, it's hard to understand. It's hard. And then in some of it doesn't make sense. Well, well, wait a minute. Why is it what do you mean out of priority?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And that goes back to did you is the water behind a dam and it's stored, or is it natural flow? And so that gets into it too. But as bad as tough as water gets in Idaho, I think we've got it so much better than others. If you look at California, we have all of our water both below ground and above ground, at least managed, and we can argue a lot about is it managed well. But if you look at like Central Valley of California, it's literally shrinking. It's actually going down because they're pulling so much in California and most of the other states, if you can get the water, you can have the water with a pump. The problem is that's literally a race to the bottom, and they're seeing that the gland is actually collapsing because they're pulling so much water out of the aquifer, and it just the ground isn't that doesn't feel sustainable to it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you and I spent a lot of time growing up on the Colorado River fishing. So I that I know that river system really well. Sure. And that's that feeds all of Arizona and California. And you look at that, the pressure on the Colorado versus the Columbia River system, it it it I don't understand it. Every time I go to Phoenix, I'm like, how is this happening?
SPEAKER_02You sometimes you just need to hit your knees in the night to say, Thank you, I live where I do.
SPEAKER_01So so okay, let's let's pivot a little bit. So so we have years where we have good water. Yep. And I want to talk a little bit about snowpack and ground saturation and everything. Last year was strange. A lot of rain early. So what I was hearing from everybody is good saturation through the fall, lots of water, but not snowpack. And everyone said, Hey, we're gonna be okay this year, but not next year. Because what's gonna happen is we have no snowpack. So if we have two bad years in a row, boy, we're in trouble. Okay, so this year wasn't too bad. Is water gonna shut off early this year?
SPEAKER_02It's already been shut off in a lot of places.
SPEAKER_01Goes back to your priority, but yeah, water's so water's shutting off now, and here we are still in August, but it's gonna shut off early. And then I think what's the projection? Because I I I follow this pretty closely just because I care about it. I think it affects our economy and everything else going on. And it looks like this Super El Nino or whatever, which sounds good because you're like, oh, it's gonna be this flow, but it looks like it pushes that moisture farther south, right? And we could be in a band that doesn't get water this year.
SPEAKER_02So you're looking at the same thing that's terrifying me. Yeah. Is if we go to Super El Nino, typically we tend to be a little wetter but drier, and we miss our number one reservoir, and that's the mountains and the snowpack. That's that's reservoir number one.
SPEAKER_01Wetter but warmer, right? So so we'll so we'll have water But we can't retain it. But we can't retain it for a second year, and I've heard that the back-to-back thing that's where we really get in trouble.
SPEAKER_02So that's where I get scared. I mean, this year's been tough, and next year, with if we have that play out and we have another dry, dry winter, I get scared. Yeah. And I I don't say that lightly, but I get scared because farmers can handle a lot of market stress because they just go out and farm and they're gonna grow their crop. But I get nervous that what if markets are tough and they are, and they literally are looking at just dirt because they couldn't put water to it because they didn't have water. I get I get really nervous about it. I don't know how I've talked to a lot of lenders. I mean, if you're an ag lending, you kind of get these things, but it gets spooky. Yeah. And like you said, we want to stay positive and we do. But we live and die. We are. We're again, we're a desert. We don't put water to this, we're dry. Yeah, we don't get 11 inches of rain, nine inches of rain. That's not enough to grow anything other than nasty cheat grass. But that doesn't create what we've had. And you talk about the beautification, it's downstream effects. Literally, now we're talking water, and that's the pun. But everything starts to look differently if we start get running short on water.
SPEAKER_01And it and it's not just crops, it's it's the cattle side of things too. It's the dairy side of things. I mean, it it affects everything. Wow.
Beef Prices And The Cattle Cycle
SPEAKER_01Okay, let's go to uh other pressures right now, because uh you hear from almost everybody you talk to in ag world right now, there's a lot of pressures. Beef, it's it's ironic, right? Because your your cow calf operation is probably doing great because beef prices are have never been higher. There's a shortage, right? But on the on the kill plant side, there's not enough cows.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01So so i i the this and can you go back to why? Because I've heard different stories on this. There was a big uh there was a lot of death of of herds, mostly in the Midwest, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um really where that comes back to is it's so the cattle cycle is one of the coolest markets that you can look at because you got a biological lag. If I grow a calf and I want to get another calf, I've got to let that calf mature, reach puberty, get bred. So there's like an 18 to 24 month just biological lag before you can increase that herd biologically, which is kind of cool. When you look at markets, I you can track that that cycle uh back to the 1800s. So it's a phenomenal ongoing cycle biologically. And then you throw in Mother Nature, which is if she's not involved, but you throw in uh environment. Almost a third of the beef in the United States comes from that Texas, Oklahoma area. So they got pounded by drought. And when they get pounded by drought, same thing as here, you liquidate your herds, you go down. So, really, what happened was we had the Southwest, Central Southwest experience just extreme drought for a couple of years that just really forced that that part of the world to dry down. Now we get into natural disasters here and there, you get a terrible winter or whatever, and you'll get a spot. But really, when that Texas, Oklahoma, into Missouri, even in Nebraska, when that little triangle, that's where most of the beef really come from. And when that goes down, and drought usually drives that, it's funny we've been talking drought in Idaho, when that goes down, the herd comes down. And so it's been prolonged though, because as you said, prices are phenomenal. And I've always been told uh, you know, when someone really wants to buy something, maybe you should sell it. And that's what the market's been saying. Instead of keeping this heifer and putting a calf into her, the market's saying, you know, she might taste delicious. Why don't, you know, she's so high priced right now. Why would you take the risk? There's not an incentive to build your herd right now. No, the incentive is to sell. The incentive is actually maybe I should be selling down my inventory and keeping more of a base because all this excess, why not cash it now, put it in the bank because it's a cyclical market, and then when that market goes back down, I'll buy back on the cheap.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02So there's a lot going on. Number one is going to be the environment. You know, if we're having a drought in the wrong place, you're just going to force that market down and it's being prolonged to build back up because the pri the cure for high prices is high price. Eventually that'll fix it. But right now, she's worth a lot on Albertson's meat counter. Maybe she's worth more there than to take a risk of running a year on a grass.
SPEAKER_01I know it's supposed to be 50-50 every time you get one of these calves, but I swear I'm like 80-20 males to females. I I don't every every single year. My wife's like, what's going on? I'm like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Well, if you're in the selling market, then you're happy, right? Because those steers make more. But if you're trying to grow your herd, that's a little bit challenging.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01You would know more about that than me. Yeah, that's funny.
Public Lands Grazing And Multiple Use
SPEAKER_01Um, so one of the things we want to hit on is uh because I think we've had, we in fact, we had uh Nick on, we spent a month on public lands for recreation. And one of the fascinating things I want to talk to you about is public lands for ag. Yeah. Because I think again, when when I when you hear the public lands debate and conversations, a lot of times people don't immediately think ag. So I wanted you to really expound on that for us.
SPEAKER_02And I love this, and so you're gonna have to keep me from going too far. But this is my heritage. I mean, again, Lieutenant Governor and the governor too, the lieutenant governor talks about he can raise his cattle because of the trust he has in the public because he grows on public lands. So my family, my grandfather was the first one to put fences on our forest allotment. So he got that allotment and we've improved it and we've proved it up since then. But I've grown up with BLM, not the BLM that got popular during uh the pandemic, but the Bureau of Land Management. There's state lands I run on. We run on private lands, we rent lands from other people. I even have a really weird deal in St. Anthony where we rent land from the Department of Health and Welfare because we we lease the farm around the reform school. But so I'm used to working with state agencies. And when you start talking about the federal lands, your BLMs and your Forest Service, what we as rancher, in the ranching community and the logging community, we get really excited about the multiple use doctrine, which just essentially says this land is the government's land. Now that goes into a deeper discussion. You're gonna get a lot of people are gonna say, should we own it, should we not own it? Not probably for me to speak on at this point, but the multiple use just says that's the public domain, and it should go for the multiple uses of everybody.
SPEAKER_01So But before you go, but I want to stop you when you say should we own it, should the state own it, right? And I think that's where the lot of the rubber is right now, because if the federal government owns it, I think people feel it's a little safer from being sold off. Because there's a lot of examples around the United States where land is transferred from federal to state and then was sold.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is that right?
SPEAKER_02So I mean in my parlance, the world who I talk to is just the federal government's not a great partner to work with. Right. And so there's a lot of frustration in the management. So I think where we get wound up is could you do a different management model? And the answer is yes. The federal government, based out of DC, and we've got some phenomenal people actually back there. But you know, republicanism and we're nonpartisan as Farm Bureau, but that theory of government closest to people makes the better decision. Yeah. You're gonna get a lot of you know, fires going and everything like that, you're gonna get a lot of momentum around the agriculture community saying if I could talk to someone that could actually make a decision versus the bureaucracy that understood me, that it had been that it had even been around this industry before, right? Well, and has lived on the land and understands what that land responds to, so that you're more of a partnership. But going back that multiple use, that just means can I can I graze it? Can I log it, can I mine it? Those are the three multiple use, and then you throw recreation into it. But essentially, how do you allow the public people, the public to access that land? So as a grazer, I have the rights with my permit to graze the grass. Then uh you but they can also come in and someone they can do a sale and someone can log that, which as a rancher, I want to see way more logging because the grass doesn't grow as well, it's not natural. We need to get back into more of a cycle. When you have we have this, we've got this overgrowth forest system and we get mega fires. Fire should be on the landscape, mega fires should not. And it's because we've had that 100 years of repression. Again, we can go off on that. But it means that in my one little piece of the world that I get to graze, I might have to deal with someone mining, probably not in where I am because it's cinder, but I could. And there also could be a logging enterprise, and those should be able to interact with each other, and somebody should be able to go shoot a six-point elk in the middle of all that. That's in theory, that's what that should be. I love it. What I love, I mean, I'll just give you my picture of my perfect day. Is I'm up rounding up cows in the fall. The the trees are turning, the aspens are turning. It's a beautiful day. There's that crisp in the morning, and I'm not a hunter because I hunt cows, but I'm gonna be moving cows. I've got my daughters with me, and we're having a little visit, and then we disappear. And my perfect day is the cows are good, but they're a little rowdy, just so you can prove that you're a cowboy. But they're gonna get where they need to at the end. But I'm also gonna run into maybe two or three hunters, and I'm gonna say, Oh man, I saw an elk on the other side of that ridge. You might want to go hiking over there. And we have an interaction, and they say, Hey, I saw something over there that didn't look right with your cows. To me, that's what Idaho is, that's what the public land should be, where you can come and say, I'm archery hunting, and you can have the best day and run into a cowboy and say he was a great guy. And I can go make my living off of that, and I can run into a hunter and say, Oh, you mean I saw a gate that was open. And I mean, that's what this is, that's what I believe a perfect day should be. I get a little nervous when I hear any one side start to advocate me, not you. And I worry a little bit that sometimes when you get passionate about, and the hunting community is so passionate, I do get a little bit worried about the idea that it only can serve us. And I start hearing things that almost feel like a little bit, you know, we'll talk about the economic returns of recreation. Why is a roommate with a guy in college that he runs a fly fishing uh guide over on Henry's Lake, Hart Fork? Like I'm rooting for him, but we need to coexist with each other. So I mean, my biggest thing is this all can feed everybody. My cows actually can make better grass for the elk, and vice versa. When I do a water development and go fix the water, you put a gang cam up, and I know this because every stinking one of my water developments has a stand on it where somebody's hunting off of it's working, and let's not let's not kill that, let's let's focus on golden eggs, not killing the goose.
SPEAKER_01Who are the uh who are the organizations you work closest with on these issues?
SPEAKER_02You know, um we've had a really good relationship and ongoing with the ATV, the recreationalist. Now they can cause a lot of trouble when people anybody that abuses things, the motorized vehicles have the biggest impact on the land, but they're the ones that get the most pressure on them too. Because you get this idea, preservation is not management. You know, we I believe we were given stewardship as humans that we have to steward this land. And that doesn't mean we we rape and pillage, it means we take care of it. And so anything that has a greater impact on there, we tend to work with. So the recreationalists, you're gonna get a lot of engagement with that. Different hunting groups, we have different relationships, but the ones that are the ones that we like to work with, we feel like are more like us. We like to think of ourselves as a very pragmatic organization, like what's the right solution? We do well with more of those groups. There's other groups that tend to be a lot more of I've got a philosophy, and damn the consequences, it's just gonna be my philosophy. And that that sounds really good to raise money in major metropolitan cities because you're gonna save the West. Those are the ones we tend to butt heads with because we're that's where we're having the dichotomy, that that transition from reality to you've just got a you've got an angle you're pushing that there should be no cows in the west. Well, give me a stinking break here. The buffalo were here before the cows were, and last I checked, they're both cloven hoofs, and they both are ruminants, but that's just me.
SPEAKER_01I think that was fantastic. Um, I I do want to follow up on one other
Gates Predators And The ESA Tangle
SPEAKER_01thing you said. The older I so I'm I'm I'm getting old now, Zach, and I I've always had like some mantras to live by, and they've changed over the years, and I keep a list of them, but you know what's at the top of my list now is always close the gate. Or leave it how you found it. Or leave it how you found it, right? Yeah, no, it should be. Yeah, if it was closed when you got there, close it when you go through it. But I've had my cows get out twice this last week, and I am just like livid. Like it's just every time I do it, it's always when I'm not home and Shanna calls me. And anyway.
SPEAKER_02Is it not one of the most humbling experiences when your cows are where they're not supposed to be and they don't want to go back in? And yeah, it's cattle will humble you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's well, she uh so we've had we've had our we've had our issues, and and she's about tired, she's about done with it. She's like about done with it. Uh the first time I told her, You need you need to get out of your car and get big. You gotta get big and yell. You gotta scream, make noise. She's like, if you ever tell me to get big again on that on our berm at our house to keep the cows in, you're that's it's anyway.
SPEAKER_02So I married a dairyman's daughter, and a dairyman is just so quiet, so you know, so relaxed, because the cows, the more calm those cows are, the more milk they get. Since she marries into a rancher's family, and she's like, You guys are just loud. I'm like, Well, we probably all have six. Significant hearing loss, and we're not and she's like, You just yell at each other, like, well, that's the only way we hear each other. Like, we're we're not mad. We just have to enunciate to hear each other because we say the same thing. Where I run is there's grizzly bears, and so you know, my daughters and whatnot, and they say, Well, what are you gonna do? I'm gonna say, I'm gonna be loud. Yeah, I'm I'm gonna make I'm gonna do everything in my power to let him know. Have you had experiences with him when you've been out there? I've not personally. We've had a few cowboys come on a few, and so that's why I'm a terrible singer, but I do a lot of singing and a lot of yelling and make a lot of noise because I'm not there to hunt, I'm there to uh not be hunted. But it's it's an eerie situation, it's an eerie feeling when you're the wolves came in and that's been a thing, but the wolves are not gonna preditate on me on a horse. But a bear doesn't scare isn't scared of anything. And that is a different environment. And yeah, we've had in the island park area, there's been and North Idaho too, there has been significant about two years ago, almost a 20% death loss by by some of the ranchers, like devastating. And there's nowhere for these grizzly bears to go, like they're full. So you start talking about issues, Endangered Species Act, great idea, terrible application. It's been completely politicized.
SPEAKER_00The wool thing's been tough. It's awful. And and they're devastating.
SPEAKER_02Well, and you're up in McCall. So I mean that's like an epicenter there. They they just devastate.
SPEAKER_01You look at what they what they eat. What they don't eat. Yeah, it's crazy. What they don't eat, right? What they kill, I think. They're they are very good at what they do. Yeah. They just aren't that hungry. I I've been shocked as I've watched uh and learned more about just how they go through these ranges and just kill everything they come on and leave it and go on. But but it's but what a bad deal. What a bad piece of legislation and all that.
SPEAKER_02And the the reality is is I'm completely I'm not naive. Should there be wolves and grizzlies on the environment, on the landscape, I'm never gonna fight that way. That's a losing battle. And really, they were here, they probably deserve to be here, but so are we. And there's gotta be a way to balance the two. And the bad ones have got to go, and really the bad ones cause trouble for everybody, but there's gotta be a management. Right now, it's not okay to for someone. I don't want to live, I don't want to tell Central Park how to live. I don't want to tell, I don't want Central Park telling how me to live.
SPEAKER_01Can you believe how far we gotta we I'm like on uh on topic two of ten. I knew this would happen. I knew this would happen. Uh we should have scheduled like two hours.
Ag Labor Immigration And A Federal Fix
SPEAKER_01Um let's talk labor. Okay. Um I came down You want to just go into the hard stuff. Well, I just I think I think this is your chance because I think it's so misunderstood, right? So I'll give you kind of my kind of take on this. Uh so immigration policy has been a mess for decades, a long time. Uh federal government problem made horrifically worse during the Biden administration. I mean, there no one you could talk to that actually understands what went on would say the and I and who knows, I don't even know. I I mean, I follow this pretty closely. I have no idea what their intentions were because it doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, I mean, how you can let uh millions and millions of people come in and 10% of them are hardened criminals and just invite them in and give them resources and say, hey, come pillage our country, was idiotic, right? So I think that sets the stage for some of the stuff going on now. So now there's like, hey, let's shut the border. The border got shut really quickly and very efficiently. Wasn't hard. I mean, you look at those crossings and they're like, okay, we've done that. Well, now you've got this, okay, we got we've got bad actors, we've got to figure this out. But you've got industries for decades, decades that have been dependent on on uh foreign labor for jobs that no one else would do. We've got a federal problem that needs to be fixed federally. It needs to be thoughtful, and it needs to pay attention to our industries. Is that so hard for people to understand?
SPEAKER_02I don't know what to add, Tommy. I think you nailed it. I think going back to what we talked about before, that's what Trump did shut the gate. That's all we had to do, shut the gate and it stayed shut.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, you nailed it. Like a few things just to add on to the idiotic of what that was. People say, I don't know the reasonality, reason of it either. And you mentioned, you know, our our industries, and it's Matt Todd actually mentioned it the other day. Find me a first world country that you're not gonna find immigrants doing some of these jobs. Like it's an entryway into a better life. But it's not, I don't look at it as a negative that our kids don't want to go do those jobs because they have better opportunities. And you're a big part of that that we trade and building our kids up. Like, I'm a big believer in hard work and I'm a big believer, even bigger believer in significantly good work. So if you can upgrade yourself, that's okay. And if there's people that want to make a better life, that want to come do these jobs, that's even better because the heart strings get pulled. I mean, these are not just these are not wickets, these are people. Yeah, and they're working on our farms and our dairy.
SPEAKER_01The other thing that just there's most of the time at where I'm at it, you just listen to people and just it just rolls off your back. It's like you're you don't you don't understand. But some of the things calling it slave labor and these, you know, taking advantage of these people. I'm like, are you kidding me? Have you actually gone and visited any of these places where where these workers come in and they're on a program to come in here and work? They want to work, they're bettering their lives, they're well taken care of. The relationship, some of these relationships go back decades with these families that have worked on farms.
SPEAKER_02Some of the largest dairy, some of the largest dairies, most of the largest dairies in Idaho are first and second generation immigrants. They made their lives. And there's those that came and they started milking cows, now they own the cows. Like this dream still works. These are not the slave labor is hard, and and you've you threw yourself into it, and we really appreciate you that it's not an easy place.
SPEAKER_01So then the only other hypocrisy of this whole thing is there this the far right kind of like, hey, uh hunt them all down, throw them all out, people. That's not Trump's position. So it's always interesting to me where Trump is the savior, right? Literally elevated above Jesus Christ in most people's lives. And no matter what he says is is the law, well, he's not saying what they're saying. So it's it's just always interesting me. I think we need there needs to be a longer term solution. I think there needs to, this has not been a I I always I always go back to Mitt Romney because if you look at his first hundred days and what he would have done figuring this out, this is a solvable problem. It needs a federal solution, it needs an adult in the room to say, hey, we're gonna fix this, we're gonna protect our interests, we're gonna protect our people. All of the things need to be said. But but r making it politicized and trying to do what sometimes happens last session, even it doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_02Well, and and you said it so well, and it's it should be simple. You go back to high school government, federal issues, state issues, and I'm just gonna I'm gonna be a little bold, but if you've got a state uh legislator who's making a lot of noise about immigration, they are not looking out for your interests, they're looking out for their publicity. That's right. And they're way out of school and they're not doing any good, they're not bringing solutions, they're just making noise. It's a federal issue, and I get annoyed because this has been our number one issue with AG my entire career, and I if we can get it changed, that would be awesome, but I don't see it going away. But we've it's too politic, it's too hot of a political football. The right raises money off of a certain form of immigration enforcement, the left raises money off of a certain form, and until we can pull them up somewhere, someone's got to be, and I like that you bring up Mitt Romney, you've eventually got to get past a politician and get to a statesman that's willing to say this is what's right.
SPEAKER_01That's exactly right. And and go back to policy, right? I I swear I say this all the time on this podcast. You go back to his first hundred-day document and you dig next lever of what what what the ideas were on policy, whether it be entitlements or healthcare or immigration, the stuff that matters to Americans, and this is now almost 20 years ago, that the blueprint was there. It I think is still, I don't know, on a lot of things like healthcare. I think once you screw it up, once you screw it up as bad as we've screwed it up, now you're like, okay, I don't know what to do now because no one listened. Um entitlements are gonna be the same thing. I mean, and you there's some things that if if the longer you kick it down the road and you never bring it up and you never fix it, the harder it is to fix. And but but but listen, we're America. I'm I'm staying hopeful, but some of these issues are fixable if we had a statesman to fix them.
SPEAKER_02If we don't break it so bad, I love what you said, because I don't think that we should have $20 milk.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't think we want to have our milk come from I mean, how well is uh lettuce from Mexico treating us right now? Yeah. So I don't think we do we really want to export, do we want to have high-priced food and we want to have reasonable food? We want to have reasonable wages, and we want to have it produced here. I don't think many Americans or Idahoans, that's what I want. I want to eat it here, I want it grown here, and I want someone to help grow it, have a good life. We've got to have that intersection of the three that come together, and those are market forces. We've got to have a statesman that can come together, and there's legislation right now with G.T. Thompson that could get this done if we can get statesmen in the room that will vote the right way and help get
Next Guests Final Thoughts And Thanks
SPEAKER_02us done.
SPEAKER_01You know what? The most beautiful thing is we're gonna do two more of these together this month, so we don't have to end this. So we're gonna we're gonna interview Matt Dorsey next, and then just to let our listeners know, so next week's podcast, we'll hear me and me and Zach with uh Matt Dorsey, who's the president of Idaho Farm Bureau, and then uh Miguel, how do you say his last name? Via Fana. Via Fana. He's a kick. Miguel Viafana, farmer, owner operator of Via Fana Farms, and the senior commercial lender of Zions Bank. So that's who we'll be interviewing on the next two weeks podcast. Zach, this this is gonna be fun. I love being around you. I I'm I'm not I'm not sugarcoating this, man. It's just like you meet people as you go through life that are the real deal. You're the real dill. You are the real deal. You talk the talk, you walk the walk, you're respected and you're you're passionate and you're genuine. I just I love being around you, man. And this is uh this has been fun getting caught up. Uh and most importantly, thanks for your friendship. Uh you're a good dude. Thanks, Tommy. The feeling's so mutual. Thank you. All right. Thanks, everybody.