Episode 20 -- Avoiding AI with Typewriters in Higher Education?

In this episode, we're talking about a story by the Associated Press about a Cornell University instructor of the German language. Apparently, she got frustrated with students were using generative AI and online trans translation platforms to churn out grammatically perfect assignments.  Her comment was, “What is the point of me reading assignments if they are already correct and you didn't write it yourself?  So, the question is

If the computer did the work...

did the student learn anything? 

Her answer – have the student complete their German assignments on typewriters!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to The Professor is Live. A short, practical look at life in the age of artificial intelligence. We start live on LinkedIn, share the recording on YouTube, and release each episode as a podcast wherever you listen. In 15 minutes or less, Mark Salisbury explores how AI is changing work, school, and everyday life. Through real stories, thoughtful questions, and a little humor with producer Rico Smart. This show is for people who want more than answers. They want clarity. They want judgment. And they want to stay human while technology keeps getting smarter. Because in an age of intelligent machines, human judgment still matters.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Hi folks, welcome to another episode, episode 20 of The Professor Is Live. And the name of this episode is Avoiding AI with Typewriters in Higher Education. So, in today's episode, we're talking about a story by the Associated Press about a Cornell University instructor of German. And apparently she got frustrated with students using generative AI and online translation platforms to churn out grammatically perfect assignments. Her comment was, what is the point of me reading assignments if they're already correct and you didn't write them yourselves? So the question is, if the computer, if the computer did the work, did the student learn anything? So she pondered this a bit, and her answer was, have the students complete their German assignments on typewriters.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

You know, I have to admit, if somebody handed me a typewriter today, I'd spend the first 10 minutes looking for the Wi-Fi settings.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Absolutely. You know, and the other thing students are discovering is that Undo used to be called Starting Over. So let's start our show today with a with another fine educational film that we've created. And by educational, I mean terrifying for anyone under 30.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

So, in a sense, it'd be a historical documentary.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Absolutely. And here it is. Yes, that's true. That is exactly true. And there's probably somewhere else the students asking, you know, what is a typewriter exactly? But you know what, this got me to thinking about my own teaching. And so I actually gave this some thought. And here's kind of what I came up with I thought, you know, how can I remove AI from my business intelligence class? Well, I could have them do their data analyses using Apple II computers. No internet, no cloud computing, no chat GBT, no Python, just a green screen and a floppy disk.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

So what would your students be using for software?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Well, you know, on Apple II, we could have them use VisaCalc.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Now, for those of you out there under 50, that's basically uh Excel's great grandfather.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

What other things would you be using in your class? Um, such as like Python programming or machine learning?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Well, you know, all of that happened after the Apple II was invented. So I guess the good news is that my students wouldn't be using AI to complete their assignments.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

And what will they use the educational experience for?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Uh well, maybe they could get a job in a museum. Okay, well, to help us think through this, we invited back our resident historian of technology, Dr. Kevin Brady. And this is what he has to say about the matter. Welcome to Kevin Brady. He's our go-to guy for the history of technology. And so we wanted to welcome you to the show. And as you know, Kevin, we're talking about a story that comes out of Cornell University, and it's about an instructor. In fact, she's an instructor of the German language, and uh, she kind of got frustrated here a few years ago in that students were using generative AI and online trans translation platforms to churn out grammatically perfect assignments. And so her comment was what's the point of me reading it if it's already correct anyway, and you didn't write it yourself. And her question to your students are could you produce it without your computer? So she came up with this idea that she has her exams and assignments with typewriters. And so I have to just say right up front, uh, you know, I've done my share of teaching, and uh when I look at people who go the extra mile to improve what they're doing, I first tip my hat to them. And then now it does bring up a lot of uh uh I shouldn't say issues, but it it brings up some perspective around, you know, what are we doing with our teaching? And so um I thought I would try to get your thoughts on this.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Yeah, yeah. I thought I thought it was an interesting response to the problem, you know, to move everybody away from the new machines back to the old ones, you know. So Mark Twain would have liked that. He he invested in uh typewriters, but uh um yeah, I can see what she's trying to do. I'm not sure that's uh you know the solution I would have chosen necessarily, you know. Um I think that uh what we want to see is we uh some sort of sense of progress as the students are moving through the material and over the course of the semester. And so um I think there's a lot of different ways in which you can document that, you know. Uh a lot of uh uh people use uh various kinds of learning journals, you know, or they might have uh a project that works itself out in stages over the course of the the whole uh semester. But it's I I see what she's getting at, you know, trying to bring back some sort of a sense of uh accomplishment or craftsmanship to the learning. Because it seems like, you know, the I'm sure from the student's point of view, they're focused on the grade, they're focused on how do I get through this class, and so they're looking for what's the fastest and easiest way to get there in a lot of cases, you know. And so maybe anything that forces everybody to kind of like back up, maybe slow down a little bit and uh and think about this uh in differently in terms of what the goals are, what are the objectives for the for the class what by the time you get to the end of it? What do you expect? I love that from instructional design. What do you expect the students to be able to do as a result? In her case there, I think you know, uh inadvertently she's created a typing class.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Exactly. I always thought my old typing teacher, Mrs. Miss De France, would be would be excited about that. And uh and I I just think of other other you know stories that relate to this. And uh, we were chatting a little bit off camera here, and I remember slide rolls. And when I first went to college, you know, I had one on my belt, and and of course, they just the women just loved that. They would just flock around me and looking at that slide roll. But you know, we don't use slide rolls anymore, and and there's reasons for that. There was a new invention called a calculator, and and we're using that. And um I do know that you've had some experience in teaching writing, and uh you had some ideas about it being a process and maybe how AI might actually work with that.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Yeah. Um, yeah, it was early on in my teaching career, the first class I ever taught for a community college. And I got introduced to a book by a fellow named Donald Murray, entitled A Writer Teaches Writing. And he he looks at it, you know, he was a professional, and he said, Well, for me, it's not just the outcome, the product, it's this whole process by which I discover my topic, discover what I what my take on that topic is, and then figure out what's the best way to present it to an audience. And so um in teaching writing from that point of view, uh the final essay is not the objective. It's it's learning how to write. There's sort of the you know, the everything from the brainstorming down to the final uh proofreading. And uh, you know, for the for those students who stuck with it, and you know, the assignment included like 15 minutes of free writing every day. The students keep a journal. Because one of the things Murray also points out is writing's a physical activity. So, you know, like any physical activity, practice makes a difference. The more you do it, the easier it gets to do. And uh, you know, I was I was in a department at a small school in uh Vermont where uh a couple of my colleagues had come out of uh the writing program at the University of New Hampshire, which is very much focused on this business of teaching writing as a process. And so then with that, the students can't go to ChatGPT and get an instant essay and hand it to me because I want to see the I want to see the brainstorming, I want to see the outline, I want to see the drafts as they go along. And what I'm looking for through all of that is the progress, the development of their thinking about the topic. You know, and they and the other thing that I always did with them is I told students any essay can be revised up to the last day of the class and resubmitted, you know, like that because in the reality, I've got friends who are professional writers, you know, it's constantly under revision until you hand it to the editor and the typesetter, you know. So uh and the notion being to encourage that mindset as they go forward, you know, and get them get them away from being focused totally on the end product.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah, and so AI, these large language models, right, could actually be part of that process, it seems to me, and be able to help them in their writing. And then the writing tasks, uh, the ideas they're trying to bring together and communicate, it seems like they could do more complex kinds of things and more in-depth and could actually increase their writing skills. Am I putting words in your mouth with this?

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Well, my question about it at this point is has to do with this current crop of a so-called AI. I'm a I'm a big AI skeptic, okay? Um, I remember Herbert Simon uh saying that you know what computers do is they simulate.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

This is a simulation. And I'm reading all these reports about uh the program inventing sources, for instance, you know, or uh it's just all of a sudden in the midst of a coherent paragraph, there's two sentences that make no sense at all. That kind of stuff. And uh our mutual friend Bob Grassberger has used ChatGPT, and he's he says, you got to go back and look at everything carefully because it makes stuff up. And of course, my friend always says, beware of machines to talk.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right, well, thank you for being on the show. Not at all. Well, what do you think, Rico?

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Quite interesting. Um thank goodness we're not all going back to typewriters. Um, I would have to invest heavily in Whiteout.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Exactly. Well, you know, what struck me about Kevin's comments is that the story really isn't about typewriters, it's about what we're trying to teach. For years, educators asked, how do we get students to produce good work? Today the question is, how do we know students are doing the thinking? Those are very different questions. So let's go and contact yet another expert here, Rico. Let's bring in ChatGBT and into this conversation. So here it is. ChatGBT, are typewriters the future of education? Can we put that in there? Chat GBT comes back and says no. The deeper issue is not the technology students use. The deeper issue is whether assignments reveal learning. A student can compete or complete an assignment with a typewriter and learn very little. A student can also use AI responsibly and learn quite a deal. The challenge for educators is designing experiences that make thinking the centerpiece. So there you go, Rico. Wisdom out of the mouth of a chat box.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

So the solution isn't typewriters.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Fairly not.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Good. I hate when you make a mistake and have to start all over.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Exactly. So since the story really isn't about typewriters, you know, we need to think about what are we doing when new technology arrives in education? It looks to me like our first instinct is often how do we stop people from using it? Maybe a better approach for us is how do we help people use this new technology more wisely? You know, this approach not only applies to classrooms, but it applies to organizations, families, and almost every part of life in the era of AI. You know, Rico, let's ask our audience: would you rather take a class that bans AI completely or a class that teaches you how to use AI responsibly? So let's take a look out there. And I know people are just fighting to get on here because it's just millions of people. And uh, are you seeing what I'm seeing, Rico?

SPEAKER_02 15:48

I think they're under typewriters.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

I think you might be right. So, okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

So do you have a quote for us today?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

You know, I do. I do. And today's quote comes from Alvin Toffler. The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn and unlearn. So we're coming in for a landing here, Rico. And so what we can, I think, glean from this is that artificial intelligence is one of the most powerful tools ever created. It can help us think, it can help us learn. But the important parts of life still require more than intelligence. They require judgment, responsibility, and real human teamwork. That part still belongs to us.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Ah, speaking of real human teamwork, aren't you at a conference in Madrid next week?

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Ah, very good. I knew you'd help me work this plug-in, Rico. Thank you. That's right. I'll be speaking at architecture, media, politics, and society conference. Sounds like AMPS, right? But doesn't have anything to do with electricity. But it is kind of like our TED Talks over here. And the title of my talk is Teaching with AI: Developing Problem Solvers for a Changing World. So, for you folks out there watching or listening to this, if you're interested in thoughtful conversations about life in the era of AI, follow the Professor Is Live and also follow me on LinkedIn. So see you next time on The Professor Is Live. And there's the out.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

The Professor is Live is hosted by Mark Salisbury and produced by Rico Smart. We go live on LinkedIn, share the recording on YouTube, and release each episode as a podcast wherever you listen. If you'd like more conversations like this, visit theprofessorislive.com where you'll find past episodes, helpful resources, and information about our speaking, workshops, and leadership programs. We enjoy helping organizations and communities navigate change in the age of AI. And we'd be glad to help yours too. Until next time. Stay curious, stay thoughtful, and keep leading with purpose. Because in an age of intelligent machines, human judgment still matters.