#71 Herd Time; Claire Cole and the Power of Horse

This week I’m in conversation with Claire Cole, who runs The Centre in Guernsey, where she and her horses hold deeply intuitive shamanic healing sessions. In her work the horses are not simply present... they are active participants in the process, sensing energy, responding to what is unspoken, and helping guide people gently back towards themselves. There is something profoundly moving about watching these huge, sensitive creatures mirror what is happening inside us.

It feels like an apt way to open this new season... especially in the year of the fire horse. Claire herself carries that same quiet strength. She is a gentle, gorgeous soul with a real powerhouse energy behind her work, and our conversation wandered through the magic of horses, the nature of healing, and the unexpected ways transformation can appear when we slow down enough to listen. It was a joy to sit down with her, and a beautiful way to begin the next chapter of the podcast.

The music and artwork is by @moxmoxmoxiemox

Nonsense in the Chaos is available on all podcast platforms or you can listen to it here… https://nonsenseinthechaos.buzzsprout.com 

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Thank you for all your support -x-

Transcript

0:31

The. Welcome to The Nonsense in the Chaos. I'm your host, Jaylee Rose. Tonight's interview is an absolute. Blast. It's so amazing. I met Claire through my friend Joanie recently when I was invited to go and take part in a wonderful session called, herd Time, where we were a big group of us and we, I was actually invited to go there as a speaker. What she does is, invites people who are healers and energy workers and just interesting people, and asks them to come along and talk about what they're doing, and then they go out and do something that's connected to the horses that she works with. And you'll hear all about her horses. And it's in a place called The Center, which is in Guernsey and. I had a wonderful time going and talking to the people everyone I met there was lovely and made new friends. Some of them were over this weekend and I had a lot of fun with them, and I got to meet her horses and I had a connection with her horse Beny, a little pony who. Was very stubborn and wouldn't do as I was trying to get her to do. And she taught me some really valuable lessons, which we talk about in our conversation. So without any further ado, I'd love to share my chat with you. This is the wonderful Claire Cole and her amazing journey with horses.

Jolie 2:18

welcome to the Nonsense in the Chaos. So I thought, would you be able to tell us a bit about the Center, how it came to be and, and the kind of work that you are doing there?

claire 2:28

Yeah, my goodness, where do I start? So I trained back in 2019 in the uk, with a company called leap. and I trained in something called, equine Assisted Learning. So my like official title is I'm an equine assisted learning practitioner. I'd loved horses

Jolie 2:49

Number.

claire 2:50

tiny. kind of going and helping out at the local yard and in exchange for rides and things like that. I was never fortunate enough for me to have my own horse when I was younger, so I was always helping out and then I'd kept horses with me kind of throughout my life. Even when I moved from Guernsey over to London, I managed to hunt down some horses. Rode one underneath the MI five. Building in, voxel City used to ride like around Wimbledon and Richmond and all that kind of thing. so I kept horses in my life then I met my husband in London and we moved back to Guernsey quite quickly. I fell pregnant with my first child. so we sort of set up shop here basically. We weren't really gonna go anywhere once we started a family here. I did a bit of like working for a friend. I did a bit of time working, in an estate agency over here, things like that. Then I was like, it's just not working for me, trying to manage young children and work for somebody else. It's too much plate spinning. So I wanted to set something up for myself. and at around that same time, I remember having a conversation with a friend of mine who's a gp, and he was saying with when he gets patients who keep, representing with lots of different problems, like they're not really getting better, he would often ask them, what made you happiest when you were nine? the reason like nine is because the ego hasn't quite landed when you are nine. So you still do what you love, what your soul loves, and, As soon as he said that to me, I was like, horses and horses weren't in my life at that point. And I was like, I've gotta get horses back into my life. So I got introduced

Jolie 4:25

interested.

claire 4:26

went to meet her, met all of her horses, and met Archie who you've. Would've met when you came, to the center. And with he and I, it was just like an instant connection. And like working with him and riding him and forming this bond. And more time I spent with him, the more time I felt like I was coming home to myself because it's like. When you have kids, it's, it's a huge, massive like shift in life and your identity. And I'd gone from sort of having a pretty successful career working in TV production in London. And that was kind of like my identity. That was how I identified myself. This is who I do and this is who I am. And you go to dinner parties and things and go out and meet people in the pub and they'd ask you what you did and you start working. Tv. They'd be like, oh, that's really interesting, tell me more about it. Then I come to Sey and I'm a full-time mom, and I go to a dinner party and they'd be like, what do you do? And you're like, I'm a full-time mom. And then you can see them seeing how quickly can they move away and find someone else to talk to, and you're like, oh my God. Like I, is new. I haven't had, this is, I haven't had this before. And yeah, so the more time I spent with Archie, I just felt like I started to come home to myself. And I'd heard of equine therapy work. I kind of knew it existed, so I started to have a look around the UK and see what offerings there were. And then I went on a taste a weekend with leap, where we did some of the exercises and I was just like, instantly I was like, oh, this is what I wanna do. this is incredible. People are just having. What I thought back then were breakdowns in the field with the horses, but obviously it's break breakthroughs, right? just happening all around you left, right, and center. So I was immediately like, yeah, sign me up. I wanna do the training. So I was signed up really quickly and straight into it. And then, it was the end of 2019 that all that training finished. then we were straight into this really wet winter then COVID. So it was ugh, this is the worst time in the world to be trying to launch a service working outside torrential rain. And then no one can come and see you and we're all, locked up inside. but then well I think it was probably good timing in a sense because so many people had kind of had a bit of a. Straight down, I guess, you know, the experience in lockdown and COVID and not being able to see people and all this kind of thing, people's mental health was suffering. and then I got chatting to someone from EY Mind, and one of the people came and. Had a session to see what it was like. And she was like, I love it. And she was chairing the board at that point, and she

Jolie 7:16

And she.

claire 7:17

these alternative service provisions for people. So she, while she was, chairing the board, she out all these different things and I think my service was the first one where they did that. And so they started referring lots of people to me for one-to-ones, which was incredible and

Jolie 7:33

Credible and quite a

claire 7:34

So from

Jolie 7:34

So

claire 7:35

through to about Five or 24. I worked with

Jolie 7:41

we worked.

claire 7:41

Mines and clients of theirs, so that was

Jolie 7:44

That was really

claire 7:46

and then changed. Their board

Jolie 7:49

Everyone changed

claire 7:49

wanted to do, I

Jolie 7:51

my.

claire 7:52

a spiritual awakening really. I, I lost, my little pony cherry, whose original name when she came to me was Tracy Oh, she was so, she was, she was a little wel smear. She was just, she was so sassy. She was so full of like. She, to me now she's passed, like what she's left me with is the sacred no. How to honor the

Jolie 8:14

Mm.

claire 8:15

no. Because if something wasn't right for her, she was like, she had no qualms about saying absolutely not.

Jolie 8:21

Mm-hmm.

claire 8:22

not a bit of

Jolie 8:22

Oh, wow. Tracy says, no.

claire 8:24

I know. Well, the reason I had to change her name was'cause like people when clients came and they're like, oh, what's her name? Like Tracy And everyone would laugh, and I just thought, it's not fair. Like she's

Jolie 8:34

Yeah.

claire 8:35

a beautiful special soul. So I changed her name to Cherry, which you're not supposed to do Superstition says you should never change your horse's names. Bad luck.

Jolie 8:44

Okay.

claire 8:44

she very sadly when she came to me, she had some kind of, something not quite right with her lady parts. And, it, it got worse and worse and worse. And it was some kind of cancerous growth that she had and what was shown on the outside was probably a whole lot worse on the inside. And in the end it got to the point where she just wasn't comfortable enough anymore for us to be able to. Keep her going. And it was so hard because it was only that part of her that was affected, like everything else. She was still quite sparky and sassy. And yet when you have to make the call yourself to have that animal put to sleep, so hard and they're, they're big. Some people have them shot. I didn't wanna have a shot. And then you can give them the injection. So when they give them the injection, like they go down so quick and they're gone and it's, such a visceral, it's really, it's a hard, hard thing to go through. And I wanted her to be with herd and I wanted to be with her and all those sorts of things. Anyway, then she. So they cre she got cremated and it took quite a long time for her ashes to come back. And, when they arrived back, I couldn't look at them for a while. So I was like, it's like griefs a hard thing, right? And certain things you can cope with at certain times. And

Jolie 9:55

Yeah.

claire 9:55

they arrived back I was like, I'm not ready to look at them yet. But then after a while I had a look and, so. She, when I had her put to sleep, can request for them to, to keep the tail or keep, keep some of the main or something like that. But I was so shocked by the whole experience'cause it was the first time I'd ever been present for something like that. I forgot to ask. And so she went off to be cremated and asked off to ask for a tail. And so I remember like crying, walking around the, like picking up poo crying, licking on all the fences. Could I find any of her hair anywhere? When the ashes came back and I opened them to look at them, sat on the top was a black main hair. I kid you

Jolie 10:36

Oh

claire 10:38

why did that survive the cremation?

Jolie 10:41

yeah.

claire 10:42

made me look more closely and it wasn't just the ash you get in the bottom of a fire, which is what I was expecting it would be like on the top, it was almost like sort of bits of bone and it looked almost like coral reef. And I started kind of exploring more into it and there were these little stones shining and the like, they looked like, what's the yellow crystal called?

Jolie 11:04

Citron, is it the,

claire 11:06

Yes, yes, yes. They looked like that. And there was four of them.

Jolie 11:11

Wow.

claire 11:11

them. I

Jolie 11:12

Oh.

claire 11:13

and then I went not long after I went to see Lucia for an energy session and I was telling her about that and we were having the energy session and she said to me at the end, she said, they're medicine stones. It came through clearly their medicine stones. And she went to me, perhaps you're a little hidden charman. And I was like, I don't even know what medicine stones means. I don't really know what Sharma means, but I'm like, okay, cool. And and anyway, then. where it's a long, it's a long old story, but then through Lucia in some of her circles, I then met my friend Ben, the Charman, who he then introduced me to this training that's been happening in Guernsey that I ended up going along to the first training, which was called The Four Directions, like a mini medicine wheel, and was just oh my goodness. Like, wow, this is like coming home. And it's it's not like an

Jolie 12:03

Like an awakening of it,

claire 12:04

It's like

Jolie 12:05

like.

claire 12:05

you are, you're sort of awakening those memories in your system, in your soul, in your knowledge. so then I started training on the medicine wheel, did the south direction during south direction. My other horse rebel. He wasn't very well just before I started on South direction. I spotted this, blood in his tail. I was like, where's that come from? Looked all around, looked underneath, and in his sheath I saw this growth sticking out. It's an ulcerated mass. I said, oh my God. Then it was like vets and taking a sample and antibiotics and this and that and waiting for the specialists and all through Medicine Wheel, trying to like, and it's shedding and letting go and everything like that. I had all this going on in the outside world, but the first meditation we did on the first morning when we went down into the underworld, I just started crying'cause I saw Rebel and I saw him shed a body and I was really upset. I just started crying. when I look back now, it's because my soul already knew he was going.

Jolie 13:08

Yeah.

claire 13:08

my ego, my mind was not ready to let him go. So he went to lip at hospital in the uk. He was gonna have an operation, but then they did some further explorations and they found a tumor the size of a melon in his pelvis

Jolie 13:23

Oh, bless him.

claire 13:24

We can't see anything. Yeah. So I lost

Jolie 13:27

So.

claire 13:27

and he is my, sacred. Yes. Because he was like, shall we go out Rebel? Yeah. Like, should we do this rebel? Yeah. He was just this twinkly, toed, bright, beautiful soul So that they've left me those two strong archetypes and. Very often now if I'm doing anything meditative, then they'll come through and I do have rebel's tail. I kept Rebel's

Jolie 13:50

Yay.

claire 13:51

Yeah. So, when I do, I, I do shamanic healings now with people, with the horses and, and I'll often place his tail kind of on people's bodies, particularly if they need to be, you know, working on how to say yes more and like let go of fear and things like that. So um. There's always, there's always a

Jolie 14:13

There was a going.

claire 14:14

out of these, rough times isn't there?

Jolie 14:31

That was wonderful. That was all the stuff I wanted to hear I find it really fascinating. I mean, I just love hearing people's journeys because. When people are practitioners, and especially when I can sort of, it feels like it's speaking to me and what they're doing and the practice is connecting with me. I just it's such an amazing idea. As soon as Joanie told me about it, I just found it so interesting because I am terrified of horses, but I have a huge respect for them and I know how sensitive they are. And so the thought of working and, and being. In a space with horses that are supporting your healing journey. And I think I told you about a friend of mine who she'd had a horse that she de like loved so much. She was really close to this horse and she also had met the love of her life and, had this beautiful kind of later life, time with this partner and both died, both passed away and it was obviously so traumatic for her. And then she got another horse and Every time she started being in her head and thinking about what was going on, the horse would buck her off. And so, it was this zen space that she had to be in in order to be able to ride this horse. It was a strong teaching and she told me this story and said she was maybe gonna write a book about it'cause it'd been such a profound learning for her. I was just like, oh, that's really amazing. And so then when I heard what you were doing, I was like, I, I can understand this in a way I don't think I would've done before. I'd heard her story

claire 15:59

yeah.

Jolie 15:59

I know that horses can tell if you're nervous of them because I experience it myself when I'm nervous of them. But I also had so many funny experiences now doing walking on the pilgrimages where like a. Gang of marauding, teenage stallions have just come up and like eaten my gar and drown my head and basically bullied me, which was really funny. they're so full of character. You know, I've met so many lovely horses along my journey. And then also because I meet lots of cows, And how different they are and kind of getting to know what the, the, these different animals are like and what their kind of medicine is really, what their character is and what they're bringing.'cause cows are so inquisitive and so nosy and they can turn, you know, and can be really scary. And then horses are kind of. more friendly to humans in than that, but they're so powerful and they're not gonna take any shit and they might, you know, kick you or whatever. So, yeah, it's just having respect for, for these huge, incredible beasts. Just like, wow, you got so much presence.

claire 16:57

Yeah.

Jolie 16:58

so let's do the cards. Okay. And so you just say Stop when you feel like it's about the right place.

claire 17:16

Stop.

Jolie 17:20

Pleasure. That's a nice one to start off with. So that's the, six of cups.

claire 17:27

Okay.

Jolie 17:28

I love pleasure because I am ruled by Aphrodite and, she's the goddess of pleasure. So what, yeah, what's your journey with pleasure? What is it that brings you pleasure and how have you, how what does that mean to you? What's that sort of triggering you when you hear that word?

claire 17:45

Is it really bad to just say horses?

Jolie 17:48

No, exactly.

claire 17:52

they do bring me so much pleasure.

Jolie 17:54

Yeah.

claire 17:56

I can just like, you've met Beanie. I mean, you worked

Jolie 17:59

Yes, beanie is beautiful. Tell us about all your horses, the ones you've got. Tell us about all of them.'cause they're all, they've got such character.

claire 18:06

Yeah, well the first one to come along was Archie.

Jolie 18:09

Mm-hmm.

claire 18:09

the herd leader, which I love because when he was on livery at different yards, he was lowest in the pecking order, and even the ponies would chase him around and give him a hard time. And now at home, he's the herd leader and he's just, so, you can just see, he's just so happy about that. He's so, like, I just love life now. And he's, he's an Irish sports horse. He's. 20 years old, 16 hands, and he's this really old soul. And when I look at him, I don't even know how to put this into words, but when I look at him, it is like he is a part of me. I see him in me and me in him. Like I dunno really how to describe it. Yeah. Anyway, so he is, he's a very gentle soul, but he can also be very, um, he can be quite pushy. and out riding. If he's on his own, he is terrified of everything and you try and get him to walk past something, you haven't got a chance in hell.'cause he's so stubborn. So he's got all these sides of him.

Jolie 19:10

Yeah.

claire 19:11

for is working with grief and If a client comes that's got grief, he'll almost pin them to the spot and just breathe on top of their head. and it allows people's emotions to rise up to come out. Things that are all like deeply locked inside. and when Rebel passed. Ben came and said, do you wanna do a death ceremony? I'm like, well, I've never done a death ceremony. I don't want death ceremonies, but sure, come along. Let's do a death ceremony. So literally like about an hour after he'd been put to sleep, out in the sand school with the. The massage bed and we're doing this death ceremony, and Archie just stayed breathing over my third eye the entire time while I could just release all the emotion, just cry and cry and cry, and get it all out. So that was a beautiful moment for him to just be there and us to support each other. So there's him. He was the first one to come. And then when I moved home, when I, brought everything back to home, beanie and. Tracy or Cherry, they came over from Wales together, so obviously I've lost Cherry and we've talked about her, but Little Beanie, my miniature Shetland, she's, 12 now, and she's just, I mean, I can stare at

Jolie 20:23

cute.

claire 20:23

long,

Jolie 20:23

Yeah, she's so cute.

claire 20:25

Just everything about her is perfection. Like these perfect little legs and perfect little louvres and just, I love her so much and every time I'm out there, she comes wandering up and we have a little cuddle in a chat and a scratch and yeah, she's just adorable. then he came next. Next came Chip. Chip is my fire horse. Chip is the one that is teaching me how to. He's a, he's a teacher for me, so he was the first foal I'd ever owned, and he's not been the easiest fo he's got this sort of side to him that, if you're not present. Like fully present, a bit like your friend, unless you're present, then I'll have you. like, well, I'll bite you if you're, you know, if you're not present,

Jolie 21:09

Not paying attention.

claire 21:10

Yeah,

Jolie 21:11

Yeah.

claire 21:11

so he's, he's a teacher and he is fire, he's red and he's fire in his personality. I am by my astrology, I'm actually a, an earth horse by my Chinese astrology. so I'm right. if you wanna calm fire, you throw earth on it. So I just have to always be totally present, totally grounded when I'm working with Chip and when we work together like that. We've now got this most amazing bond and he picks things up so quickly'cause he's so clever, like with part of that fire personality. So he is, learning is amazing, but it's like a double-edged sword'cause they can learn the wrong things as quickly as they can learn the right things. So he's a real teacher. and I think he's gonna just be an absolutely cracking horse when he gets older. Not

Jolie 21:55

old is he now?

claire 21:57

He's just rising four, so he'll turn four in May. I actually sat on him for the first time last week, which

Jolie 22:03

Oh wow. Oh wow. And how long do they live for?

claire 22:08

Well, horses, I mean some Shetlands and things live into their forties.

Jolie 22:11

oh, wow.

claire 22:12

mean, to get into their twenties is good.

Jolie 22:15

Mm-hmm.

claire 22:15

late twenties is great. so it just depends. So you never know with horses'cause anything can happen, but hope for them to get into their twenties.

Jolie 22:25

Excellent.

claire 22:26

and then after Chip came, as I said, everybody, it is Nelly Nelly's the last one to come. She came after I lost Rebel. So she was my friend's, my friend rescued her. and it was, Nelly was a bog off for my friend. She didn't realize that Nelly was pregnant. And this big fo yeah, big old fo popped out called Nugget. and Nelly, she's just the most gentle, sweet girl. She's huge. but she's really likes, I was thinking, oh, bigger horse that big that I'm gonna be riding, but she's so gentle and so lovely. and yeah, she, she was a sort of starvation case when my friend rescued her and pregnant and only two. And my friend's not even sure if she'd maybe even had a fog before that.

Jolie 23:13

gosh.

claire 23:14

she'd been through it,

Jolie 23:16

Yeah.

claire 23:16

and yet she's got this. Wide open heart that's so full of love and so gentle and nurturing. Like you just think, you know, that's the way to be, isn't it? Like they don't hold on. They don't hold onto the past, you know? So.

Jolie 23:34

I always say like, if people get broken hearted, I'm always like, just keep hopelessly falling in love again and again and again. Never stop doing that'cause what else are we here for?

claire 23:43

absolutely.

Jolie 23:45

it's fine. It's just a journey, you know? It's a learning.

claire 23:48

Mm.

Jolie 23:49

Yeah. I actually know someone who's heart calcified. It was my friend's mother and she actually died from a calcified heart, and her daughter was just like, yeah, I'm not surprised. Yeah,

claire 24:00

Oh

Jolie 24:00

our heart literally turned to stone, so we have to make sure that we don't do that.

claire 24:04

Absolutely

Jolie 24:05

hearts open.

claire 24:06

Yeah.

Jolie 24:08

Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy that that can actually happen.

claire 24:11

Yeah.

Jolie 24:11

explain a little bit about, what happens in a healing, what you invite the horses to do.

claire 24:16

Yeah. So, normally a person will come in and meet the herd. First of all, see who they connect with, who they want to work with, or they might even have read the bios of the horses before they come and have decided before they come, which horse they want to work with. so we'll, depending on the weather, we'll set the bed up either outside in the field or in the stables if it's horrible. and they just lie on the bed. And, I'll just do a normal kind of shamanic healing, but with the intention for the horse to come and add whatever they wish to add. So normally what happens is the horse will come in and they'll show me areas where in the body where things are stuck. and then I'll work with the stones and clear away stuck and trapped energy.'cause when you doing the shamanic healings, you work with stones to take away the ochers, the heavy energy. So the horses come in and I. Archie's done some incredible things. Well, they all have, but Archie, I remember one client was on the bed and he came straight over and immediately with his nose just started going anticlockwise on the heart chakra. And whenever

Jolie 25:21

Wow.

claire 25:21

working on a chakra, you always go anticlockwise to

Jolie 25:25

Wow.

claire 25:26

So he was just like, let's get that open. and then there was another client, oh, it was a group of three people actually. It was like a little workshop where they each had a healing within what we were doing, so when we went in, I was like, who wants to go first? And I'm like, oh. Kind of open. Archie walked over to one of them and shoved the floor. I was like, well, I guess it's you then. And then he was really working, like really working on that person and worked a lot. He lifted his hoof up onto the bed by the person's right knee. And he

Jolie 25:57

Wow.

claire 25:58

He put his hoof right up there. So I worked a lot like clearing around the knee. Anyway, she reported back the day later that she had been having knee pain and it gone away.

Jolie 26:08

Wow. That's amazing, isn't it?

claire 26:11

Yeah. we just work together intuitively, and I don't force them. You can't force them. so sometimes they might not come and actually a part of their body on the person. It might just be enough for them to Be present and hold the space for the person. maybe it's too much for the person if they come right in and are all over them. You know what I mean? So we just work quite intuitively when it comes to those healings and

Jolie 26:36

Yeah. And there must be a huge amount of pleasure in seeing the impact it has on people's lives,

claire 26:41

Absolutely. Because sometimes The insight that you get just from a one short session.'cause not everybody but signs up for a whole program. Some people just come for one session and they'll get such profound insight that it will just completely shift the way that they're living, the relationship they're having or whatever it might be, whatever they're working on. So yeah, that's really cool.

Jolie 27:04

Yeah. Isn't it

claire 27:06

picking up of shit worth it.

Jolie 27:09

wonderful? I love that. Excellent. Right. We'll do another card.

claire 27:13

Okay,

27:23

If you enjoy this podcast, then please consider supporting me on Patreon, which is patreon.com/jolie Rose, I really love making this podcast. It's so much fun to be back here and to have this conversation with Claire just reminds me of how much I love interviewing and talking to people. There are so many fascinating people out there, and the whole point of this podcast is to. Help us to be okay with the unknown and to like just, you know, give ourselves over to the Aquarius age, which is Aquarius moving into Pluto. We are vibrating into steam and it is scary and so. The things that we've been exploring in these podcasts and the Chaos Crusades and just trying to exercise the muscle to be relaxed with change, to just give yourself over to the process to surrender and capitulate into steam and we don't know how to do that. Your thinking mind can't figure that out. We've just got to feel it. We've got to rest and relax and give over to. The process of what's happening and trust it. trust that all will be well. So I trust all will be well and. It is such an amazing journey, this old thing called life. It's fascinating and I what people's realities and these parallel universes when you explore them. It's a joy and a gift to hear about the universes that are surrounding us and. I love it. And, this cacophony that is reality is made up of all these voices and we all are one. And in the short time that we are here, I wanna hear about as many lives as possible.'cause I want to live as many lives as possible, but I can't live all of them. So to hear people and hear what they do, I'm never gonna get round to learning to ride a horse that's not on my radar. there's so many things I want to do, but that's not on my radar. But I really enjoyed being in the space with the horses, with Claire, and so. that's opened up a whole world to me that I have access to through Claire's universe, through her inner world, through her reality. And that's enriching my life, and everyone you speak to enriches your life. She's taken the time to do it and taking the time to be interested in people. So if you enjoy this podcast, if it nourishes you and feeds you in any way, makes you feel. Supported or just entertained and you feel like giving something back then you can support for three pound a month just to say thank you, which I very much appreciate. Or you can give a little bit more and you can see the videos of the podcast and all of it just helps and is so, so appreciated. Every time I see that a donation's been made or a pledge has been made, it makes my day. So if you wanna do that, if you wanna say a little thank you, put a smile on my face, then sign up to the Patreon, and, it means that, never gonna have to put adverts or anything on this, or have sponsors or do anything that anyone else tells me to do. Do all of this myself and keep it completely free and creative in its own way, in its own right. So thank you for being here. Thank you for supporting me. If you're not able to, make a financial contribution, that is no problem whatsoever. If you can tell people about it and share it on your social media and stuff, that would be great. And yeah, word of mouth always goes the furthest I think. so thank you. And other creative offerings. We have Beltane coming up on Saturday, the 2nd of May. Please come along if you live in the Channel Islands, even if you live in the uk. We have, hotel deals to help encourage you to come over. And the weather is looking amazing already, so I think that it's gonna be very warm. So you could camp, but there's also hotels and guest houses that you could book and. We'll celebrate Beltane, the whole island's covering blue bells and three cornered leak. It's stunning. And we burn a wicker man, and we have maple dancing and we have brilliant bands, so many incredible workshops. in fact, Claire's going to be running a space with, Charman Ben, a Healing Space, the Sacred Glade. Doing healings all day long, holding a, sacred ceremonial space for people to just drop in and out of and take part in. And I'm so excited it's gonna have loads of incredible healing, offers at this Alain this year. Last year it was all new artists, and this year it's, lots of new healing offers. So that's really exciting. Just about to finish creation hibernation, and I'm very excited about my book and the place it's got to, and I think it's very close to being ready to be published. So watch this space for that. I will let you know when that's happening and yeah, otherwise on with the show.

Jolie 32:35

tell me when to stop.

claire 32:38

stop.

Jolie 32:39

So we've got the Prince of Wands. So the Prince of Wands is on a chariot. It is actually not with a horse, it's with a, a lion pulling the chariot. and it's really powerful. So this is, kind of like the authority of passion of drive. So what is it that you are really, really driven about at the moment and feel like you've. Because you've been on a hell of a journey. you know, you've gone from a, a, a normal job in TV to, which was an exciting job. You know, that's an exciting job. It's not quite as boring and normal as some jobs can be, but you are now doing something that feels much more aligned, you know, higher purpose e so what is it that's like setting your soul on fire? Or how does that feel like? Tell, you know, maybe a bit more about the shamanic,

claire 33:26

Mm.

Jolie 33:26

training that you've been doing and just what it is that's opening up for you, making you feel like you are in your throne of power kind of thing.

claire 33:33

So the shamanic work is life really, actually. because it opens you up to all the elements, all of the universe, just everything that's been, and everything that is, and everything that's to come. suddenly you are just open to. so much more than this little world that you might have previously been living in. And it opens up your energetic field so massively. my work with the horses as a result of doing the shamanic training, it's just so much more impactful and so much more deep and soulful. And the horses really respond beautifully to it. they don't. Want the kind of coachy sessions where it's all words and love the energy and the connection and we're outside. all of nature gets involved and the birds are prey and the ducks that waddle through and the rainbow that suddenly appears and the wind that blows through and, it's just. To me, I, there, there's this thing, there was this guy, and there's a recording that's been going around and he, it was like a prophecy that, the horse was gonna come and it was gonna save mankind. And it was this prophecy that had never really been released and now people have been playing it. within that he talks about shamans and he says that a shaman without a horse is like a bird without wings. And I, me, the shamanic work and horses, it's just, it goes so beautifully together. so I'm hugely passionate about that. And, I love it actually'cause our, our, teacher who comes over from Sweden, when he says your vibe attracts your tribe, he says, your wi attracts your tribe. And I love that. And I'm like, oh, my wife attracts my tribe. and I have noticed, since that I've been doing this, it's people just. into your world like you and,

Jolie 35:31

Yeah.

claire 35:32

lots of wonderful, amazing people that I've been meeting through this journey that you just feel like are good people.

Jolie 35:40

Yeah.

claire 35:40

they're good in, into the core of them and are passionate about. Patch of Mama and all of its creatures and the universe. and, I've become a

Jolie 35:50

I think

claire 35:51

in what's

Jolie 35:51

I'm not.

claire 35:52

on in the skies as well, you know, and listening to people's podcasts, talking about what's going up in there and how that's reflecting on down here and those kinds of things. So, yeah, it's just, it just opens up a whole new world.

Jolie 36:05

Yeah, I feel like it brings life back to when you were a kid and everything's so exciting, and then you go through this phase as an adult where everything's like, oh God, it's so beige and tar. Mackey

claire 36:17

yeah,

Jolie 36:17

I feel like half of adolescence, when people talk about the hormones and stuff, I'm like. The majority of that is actually you realizing how bullshit the world is.

claire 36:25

yeah.

Jolie 36:26

you go from fairies and magic to, oh God, are you joking? is this it? Is this what it really is? And it isn't. It wa the, the, actually, the, the fairies and the magic was more real than the tarmac nonsense that we've made up. It's just that that's the play we've made up. So we're here's this plethora of possibility and we've chosen. Greg's the bakers, we've changed. That's a, that's the choice we made. We could have done anything and yeah, to then bring it all back to, and it is mainly a wonder of with nature, a wonder. because, I love, I love everything, you know, I love flat earthing, I love all the stuff, like any kind of mad thing that anyone's into, I'm like, brilliant. but, but with me, with nature, it's like, it's so incredible and magical without having to add extra stuff to it, if you know what I mean. Like, I, you know, it is, it's just so amazing

claire 37:23

yeah.

Jolie 37:23

and yeah, that's What I feel in a sort of, is more of a shamanic side of things to the sort of more esoteric spiritual stuff is that it's more about it kind of, it marries together more with science in a way. this is more like botany and

claire 37:38

yeah,

Jolie 37:38

I wanna know how these things work and feel those connections and the more you observe and get to know an aspect of nature. Like horses or whichever, whatever it is that you are calling it's never ending. It's the mistress that just keeps on giving

claire 37:50

Yes.

Jolie 37:51

and I love that.

claire 37:52

yeah, absolutely. And talking of the Majesty of Nature, did you see the, the Moon rising last night?

Jolie 37:59

God, and it was so red. It was beautiful. Wasn't that amazing? Yeah, absolutely incredible. My goodness, this eclipse has been so full on. It's been huge and it's just interesting observing it. When you see that it does happen, it's like, oh,

claire 38:16

Yeah.

Jolie 38:17

that happened. The world has just been eclipsed by this war that's now begun and

claire 38:23

Yeah.

Jolie 38:23

happening with that. And then, yeah, everything, everything on a micro level is just eclipsed as well, and it's is mad.

claire 38:31

Mm-hmm.

Jolie 38:31

you just have to trust the journey of it all and that it is a shedding and especially with the Virgo in the South node, it's about shedding the perfectionism, shedding the getting it right. Shedding the, the sort of knowit allness of it. You know, we don't know. Reality's just disappeared up its own backside and we're just gonna have to throw everything in the air and just go for it because, everything's kind of all to play for and. we can't trust any of the known anymore because it's all literally, someone can just look you straight in the eye and say a lie who's, who's in charge of the world? And you're like, but that's not true. But okay, cool. So that's reality now. Is it? Okay, there we go.

claire 39:18

Can only trust your own reality. Now. That's

Jolie 39:20

Exactly. And that's an incredible teaching. I do feel like this is a story that's unfolding I trust. Patch and Mama, mama Earth wholeheartedly. I trust the universe. I trust the process. And in terms of the plot narrative, other than an alien invasion, which apparently is part of the plot narrative now, the only thing I could see that would be, transforming us from, from the comfort of consumerism into a more cyclical. connected and enlightened way of being

claire 39:52

Hmm.

Jolie 39:52

through some kind of, global crisis, like the environmental collapse,

claire 39:58

Yeah.

Jolie 39:58

which really is what these wars and everything are about. people know that they need to move the chess pieces to grab the last bits of everything, water, and, things like that. they know what they're doing. They're causing. This mess so that they can change the board. That's what they're trying to do. It's like a game of risk and therefore. At some point we either they all go into bunkers and we all just go feral, or we find a more cyclical way of living, you know, and that would be us moving forward, that's the next step is for us to Yeah. And in fact, actually it's gonna be somewhere in between. Things probably won't change that much. But they will change and we'll go through the winter and the darkness and, and the, the despair of it all. But then we will come back into summer and we will have moved forward and things will have evolved, but they're not gonna be as crazy and as shockingly different as we can imagine. They'll be, we'll have, learn some lessons and, you know, pretty much probably things will be quite similar we'll just be somewhere further along the line as we were after the last, wars and all the rest of it that happens.

claire 41:03

yeah,

Jolie 41:03

Humans have to keep learning from the same mistakes, don't they? So it's just part of our makeup, unfortunately. It's the way that we work. So let's pull the third card. Okay, brilliant. So this one, this one is about surrender, but this is for me, he's Odin. So the hangman, so like my shamanic journey is more, Nordic based and more, I suppose, European based than the South American tradition. I've come from being a ary actor. Druid, sort of pagan side of things. Um, I've made up as I've gone along, but I've had amazing teachers along the way that have sort of dropped the, the. Direction or you know, ideas into the mix that have made me kinda go, oh, I can and explore that thing. And quite often it's things that I'm perceiving myself or like noticing already. And then someone's like, oh yeah, that's a whole thing. in fact, Dragons I just listened to, there's an amazing podcast called The Emerald. And it's a really, oh, write it down. My God. You're gonna love it. It's so good. He's American, and he goes on really deep dives into things and he speaks in a beautifully poetic, it's, it's very bardic. He's, he's amazing. And he just went into this big bardic, reveal about, dragon energy and the serpent and what that is. And it was everything that I've. Experienced from pilgrimage. It was, it's what I've been, it's what the earth has been teaching me. And so it's like, ah, it's really good to hear it because you're like, ah, yeah, cool. so the Hanged Man is Odin. Odin hung from the Tree of Life. And then found the res in the roots of the Tree of life and then brought the res back and he hung from the tree and died and came back as a God. and so there is the shamanic journey of sort of that near death, well, like just losing yourself and then surrendering and coming back. from what you've been talking about with your surrendering journey is the grief, going through the grief of the horses and it's reality shifting. So yeah. What, what's sort of opening up for you in terms of reality shifting?'cause I think that's so key for what's going on in the world at the moment, for the age of Aquarius and everything. And the fact that reality has disappeared in a puff of smoke is like, what does, what's that experience been like for you in terms of shedding and surrendering?

claire 43:28

Yeah.

Jolie 43:29

bigger.

claire 43:31

so South Medicine, the Serpent Medicine is all about shedding. So, for me, I got some really big lessons within that, time period. Obviously losing Rebel. but other lessons as well,'cause you work on your own stories and things like that when you are, when you're going through the training and, For me, it was this thing with when Cherry passed,'cause she, I was like, oh, I have done more? I should have done more. It's my fault. I didn't recognize this. I didn't recognize that. But it's I'm just. Making up these things. thinking what, giving myself a hard time. And and then the same with Rebel. It's if I'd done this? What if I'd done that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I had to just keep coming back to my own. My own truth, my own reality all the time. Checking back in what is real, what am I just making up? What am I giving myself a hard time based on old experiences? And was about, realizing that we are all on a journey. We've all if you wanna believe this, and I, I think I do believe this, that we've contracted to come down. In this life to, in this body to do certain things, to learn certain lessons. And every other soul and animal or human is also on their own journey. And so all you can ever do is be secure and centered in your own energy and be able to just be a, an energetic support for people that you love and animals that you're. A guardian of, and you can't ever fix things

Jolie 45:03

Yeah, totally.

claire 45:04

Like we're all made to feel like we gotta fix this. And even like with what's going on in the, on the global stage and everything about global warming and that, and the other. we're made to feel individuals that we should be carrying the burden for that. But it's not us as individuals, it's the people at the flipping top making all the billions and billions of money. why is so much load put onto us that it's like our responsibility, all of it. So it is about shedding all of that and just coming back to, you can only be responsible for yourself and your own energy. And actually if you are here to just be a, vibrating at a high frequency because that is gonna benefit the earth and the people and the animals around you, then that's enough.

Jolie 45:49

Yeah, totally.

claire 45:50

that's enough.

Jolie 45:51

absolutely. It's, the thing I keep saying, make your pixel better, you know, do something with your pixel and then the picture will change. And, I. With the eclipse that's just happened. That was absolutely about shedding, like trying to control or keep hold of or grip onto any of this stuff because it's gonna just keep happening. More and more crazy situations are gonna keep unfolding and we can't like pretend that we know what's going on and or are gonna do things perfectly the whole time. You know, it feels like before like. Nineties, early two thousands, you know, I was, I was right in the forefront of kind of activism and was going to protests and it felt like I was part of the fight of whatever that thing was. And it's not that that's not there in me still, it's absolutely there, but. We've gotta fight in all directions. And that is connecting with your community, helping where you can, doing whatever you can. This eclipse is some, something's blown up in the world around me and then I'm slightly connected to it, in a, you know, an official level and. I've gotta just accept whatever it is that is unfolding. Like if it turns out that, you know, if there was mistakes made, then I've gotta take responsibility for that. I know that nothing was ever done with bad intentions and trusting with all of the people involved in the situation, that that was the case. And we've just gotta go with the flow and be better. do what you can to improve and be better in the future.

claire 47:22

yeah,

Jolie 47:22

It's okay.

claire 47:23

yeah,

Jolie 47:23

like, it's okay.

claire 47:25

yeah. some things are just meant to happen, like,

Jolie 47:28

yeah,

claire 47:28

it. You cannot stop them. You can't as much as you might like to. And it's always the, the ego mind that wants to, right, I wanna

Jolie 47:35

yeah, exactly.

claire 47:37

control that. I wanna do this, I wanna make that better. But actually, like, then you let all that bullshit go

Jolie 47:43

Yeah, exactly.

claire 47:44

to your center, to your heart and, and yeah, realize that actually no, like that's, that's just, that's the, like you say, that's the journey. That's the story.

Jolie 47:53

Yeah.

claire 47:53

to unfold.

Jolie 47:55

It's what I realized, is what power is. People who are hungry for power are people who are scared of surrendering to the process. And they think that the more power they have, the more control they'll have over reality. And they think that therefore they can protect themselves from the fact that they're all gonna end up as ash. And it's like you're all gonna be ashes babe.

claire 48:18

yeah. Totally,

Jolie 48:18

is everyone you love and there's nothing you can do about it.

claire 48:21

You see it so much, don't you? It's like, you know, oh, if I have more money, if I have more status, if I'm the top of the social tree or whatever, then I'm safe. It's like, no, you're not. life will come and bite you in the ass whichever

Jolie 48:36

It absolutely will.

claire 48:38

cash you've got, or you know,

Jolie 48:40

Yeah.

claire 48:40

in the social tree.

Jolie 48:41

Yeah.

claire 48:42

just life.

Jolie 48:43

Exactly. And it can be ego, it doesn't have to be big catastrophes, it's just, you know, you might have a child that's challenging, you might have whatever it is, there's, you're just gonna get challenged and that's what life's about and that's why we are here. We are here to have a visceral experience. So my last question for you is, a chaos crusade. So what is something that you would recommend that people do to just. Make them a bit more present and make life a bit more zingy,

claire 49:22

Yeah. Well, so, have you ever listened to any of Pam Gregory's stuff?

Jolie 49:27

no dunno. Pam Gregory.

claire 49:29

you dunno, Pam, Greg, right?

Jolie 49:30

no.

claire 49:30

Pam Gregory down.

Jolie 49:32

Gregory down.

claire 49:33

must listen to Pam gr Gregory, especially because you love astrology. She's like an amazing astrologer and she talks a lot about, water. Water holding memory. And have you heard about, Masaru Emoto's Water Experiment?

Jolie 49:47

Yes. Yeah,

claire 49:47

it like how when you're putting your positive intentions into water, and it is a bit like the experiment they did with plants as well, and the ones that were spoken to with love grew much more successfully than the ones that were called horrible names and things like that. So it's the intention that you're putting into something. And

Jolie 50:05

Yeah.

claire 50:06

in that experiment, they showed the water, a sunflower seed. Then they froze the water and then the water showed them back when it was frozen. Not just a sunflower seed, but an actual grown sunflower.

Jolie 50:17

That's amazing.

claire 50:18

Yeah,

Jolie 50:19

That's amazing.

claire 50:21

so my chaos crusade is for people to bless their water because. When you put your positive intentions into the water that you're gonna drink, and if water holds memory and are, we are, what is it? 70% water or whatever we are, might be more. then it's going into all of your cells in your body. I wrote a short blessing. Would you like me to

Jolie 50:45

Oh yes, please. I'm actually gonna hold my cup of tea. I've got a tea here. Brilliant. A herbal tea.

claire 50:51

water, but,

Jolie 50:52

Yep.

claire 50:53

you just wanna really become, present, some nice breaths, and then spirit of the water as you enter my body cleanse, what is heavy soften? What is tight? Awaken what is ready to grow. May you carry clarity through my thoughts. Peace through my heart, through my bones. I drink in healing. I drink in balance. I drink in life, and so Somo tippy.

Jolie 51:36

It be Oh, lovely.

claire 51:42

So do that with your drinking water every day. For a week. For a month. a year.

Jolie 51:47

Forever.

claire 51:48

what happens.

Jolie 51:49

Yeah.

claire 51:50

what happens. And if you're a sea swimmer, which I know you are, Jaylee, bless the sea before you get in.

Jolie 51:55

so when I swim in the sea, I feel like I'm having sex with Mother Earth. That's my, that's my sexy time. So

claire 52:02

Yeah.

Jolie 52:02

like the way I can like get in there, like I'm getting in. and then for the solstice, when it's the summer solstice, I always stay up all night. so I'll swim for the sunset and I'll stay up all night and swim at dawn and I swim with my leg. I'll skinny dip and I'll swim with my legs spread and I let the, the, golden light of the sun come up through the sea and penetrate me

claire 52:24

amazing.

Jolie 52:24

film me with its creativity.

claire 52:26

Nice.

Jolie 52:28

I love sexy time with nature.

claire 52:29

Amazing. I've still got

Jolie 52:31

Yay,

claire 52:31

from our, um,

Jolie 52:33

me too.

claire 52:35

I'm gonna,

Jolie 52:35

I had a wand. I had a, a piece of hazel that just appeared. I don't even remember when I found it. and I'd had it on my altar for ages. And then I had a sort of day of creativity around the, eclipse. And I just spent a day, making little furniture. I make fairy furniture and leave it at a hawthorn tree down the road from me because, it's got a yoni shape and hawthorn's the gateway to fairy land. And so I've just made it into this fairy tree with a fairy door and all the local kids come and play with it and leave notes there and leave little treasures there and stuff. that was actually the Chaos Crusade For last week was to make your own fairy door and to start doing a fairy door somewhere. but yeah, I made this wand and I used the ROEs from my journey with Beanie and put them, and actually I've had such a massive shift through what happened with that. Like it was my intention for this year as well. And I did. A thing with a guy called John last year where John, who runs the Church of Burn and he burns money as a spiritual act. And it was a really profound, experience, like really observe the note or wrote the serial number down, which you get, you send it to him and he puts it in the Bible of burn and he's got all the serial numbers in there. But just realizing how much it felt like an energy shift and that this energy had been taken outta circulation. It was kind of like a death and that that felt quite. Sad and profound in a way. So it made me feel quite differently about the actual physical notes of money and how they're this transference of energy. And, then had the experience with Beanie.

claire 54:01

the experience

Jolie 54:02

And then my intention for this year was the mythos of gold. And it was just like, what is gold? What is this thing? Like, what is it that we're obsessed with? And, and then. My husband got an inheritance from loved ones who passed away a long time ago, so 10 years ago that he didn't know being put into a trust. And so he then got given this money, which we didn't know he was getting. He knew nothing about it. And then we were gonna build a hobbit house, which we were really excited about doing, but. Couldn't really afford it. It wasn't actually enough money to do that. So there was so many compromises happening that we were like, oh, I'm not really gonna be able to do it. And then a house came on the market that's right next to the sends, so thes and and it's four bedroom. And now we've got this house, which has just changed everything in terms of. Our finances because we are not, you know, we are gonna be living in a house where we can do things there

claire 54:53

Yeah.

Jolie 54:54

space to do things and everything's just completely changed. So it just feels like a huge reality shift has just happened where it's like, oh, okay, that happened.

claire 55:05

Yeah.

Jolie 55:06

cool.

claire 55:06

amazing.

Jolie 55:07

and it was what Beanie's, Beanie's lesson was, was to not necessarily do it the way that you think you should. So rather than like earning more money or being more successful, just through this weird shift that was just the universe doing it. What we are already doing means that that's more money in our pockets rather than like going on rent to some landlord that's just disappearing and it's, and it's a space that we can do stuff with. So that's gonna open up all sorts of things that we've got no idea what that will mean or what that will lead to, but

claire 55:36

How did

Jolie 55:36

it's crazy

claire 55:37

She knew

Jolie 55:38

Beanie. She knew. That's so cool. So cool.

claire 55:42

extra couple of treats tomorrow for

Jolie 55:44

Say thank you to her for me. But thank you so much for doing this. It was absolutely brilliant. I knew it was gonna be fantastic. Yay. Thank you.

56:08

So that was the delightful Claire Cole really enjoyed that conversation. And it's one of the things that I love about talking to people is that they remind you about things that you. Believe in or that you care about and that are important to you? I, I think of people as being like external hard drives because we are all one, and so people are holding things for us. we haven't got time in one life to do all the things, and so it's brilliant that other people are holding those things for you and talking to Claire and connecting in with her and her energy and how she's going with the flow and trusting the process just made me think about how. I've got all these ideas and plans for the future based now on this huge change in my circumstances, which is, came outta nowhere and means that so many things are possible in a different way now. But what I love is that Beanie showed me, so my two res were abundance. And then my ring, which is the in ring. The diamond, which is, creativity. It's the sperm. So it's the seed of potential. But I love the fact it's a seed as well because the house that we are moving into is on an, on the main SARK energy line. And, I don't know where all of the Sark energy lines are, but there is a bee country at the top of this energy line that Gordon Field, found when he came over. And it's the. Valley that the monastery was built on in the, 11 hundreds I reckon might be a bit earlier than that. Um. Old, medieval, but maybe even earlier than that. And so apparently in the garden of the house there's monk, ghosts, knocking around and. There's the monk's Well is just up the hill from us with this pond. And then the valley that runs down to the coast is, I feel and felt, before I even really knew any of the history of the valley, that it was the most powerful part of the island. And so to be living on that, it feels like the dragon energy of walking the pilgrimages. Has led to me coming here. It's led to me meeting Dizz. It's led to us getting married. It's led to this suddenly happening and this change in circumstances happening. And now we're gonna be living in this place, in this valley on this energy line that's so powerful that I don't want to predict or Grasp onto any ideas of what that means and what will unfold from this shift happening? I want to see what the universe leads me to because it seems to know what it's doing, and I'm just gonna go with the flow because who knows? And like I, we've got a nice big green space. There's a big garden that hasn't been touched, so it's just free to. Begin on, we could do anything in that space and the house as well. but we just are gonna decorate it and we can make things and do things and build things. We're gonna be there forever in this valley on this energy line surrounded by nature. Like we are in a forest with a river running past and it's just mad. Like I lived in Brighton five years ago. Imagining living more in the countryside and thinking, oh, but I, I don't drive. I'm gonna need to get a van and I'm gonna need to learn to drive. and just how things have changed so much. It's crazy. And we just never know what's gonna happen. We never know what's going to unfold. And so I'm just trusting the process. I'm gonna trust this incredible process and see where it leads me because I, it comes up with things way more. Fabulous than anything I could ever imagine. So yeah. So thank you, beanie. Thank you Claire. And thank you my darling listeners, for being here. It's great to be back and to be sharing these stories with you. And we have more fascinating people to come, awesome people to chat to. Can't wait to dive deeper into the nonsense in the chaos. So lots of love and I shall see the anon.