034: Epstein and the Church's response to the Sexual Abuse Crisis

(TW: Frank discussions of exploitation, sexual abuse, rape, and assault)

The news feels like a gut punch, and yet the patterns are old: powerful people exploit the vulnerable, and too many institutions fall silent. We sit down with sexual health educator and Sex Ed Reclaimed founder Kristen to process the latest Epstein files and the wider sexual abuse crisis in churches and culture. Together we trace how objectification and porn create a pipeline to power-seeking behavior, why “just talk about lust” solutions miss the mark, and what genuine repentance looks like when harm has been done.

We don’t sanitize Scripture to make it easy. Esther wasn’t a pageant winner; she was a trafficked teenager in a predatory system. Bathsheba wasn’t a seductress; she was targeted by a king. When study notes and sermons blame victims, congregations learn to miss abuse in real life. We challenge that lens and point to Jesus, who consistently dignifies women, commissions them as witnesses, and dismantles status games by redefining greatness as service. The way of Jesus is not quiet neutrality—it’s courageous protection of the vulnerable and clear-eyed truth about power.

Expect practical steps, not platitudes. We walk through survivor-first policies, mandatory reporting, boundaries for leaders, and how to build a culture that talks plainly about sex, consent, and digital habits. Kristen opens a window into solicitor education—what actually shifts men who’ve been caught paying for sex—and offers tools parents can use to teach their kids dignity and safety from an early age. If you’ve felt angry, numb, or alone in the weight of these stories, this conversation names the grief and points to a faithful path forward.

If this resonates, share it with someone who needs language for what they’re feeling, subscribe for upcoming episodes on the female disciples during Lent, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations. Your voice matters—how will you use it today?

Find Kristen Miele at https://www.sexedreclaimed.com/ or on social media @sexedreclaimed

Watch for her upcoming book in Fall 2026!

Transcript

Setting The Table: Why This Matters

Jessica LM Jenkins 0:24

Welcome back to the Women of the Bible in Context podcast. Today I am here with my friend Kristen. She is a sexual health educator and has been for 15 years, and she is the owner and founder of Sex Ed Reclaimed, which provides Christian families a full video library of age-appropriate sexual health education for kids. And you can see her website at sexededreclaimed.com. I'll have all of that in the notes for this website, for this episode. But I have invited Kristen to come talk with me today. There's been a lot of stuff going on in the news. The Epstein files, more of those just dropped. And I know for a lot of us that has been extremely overwhelming and heavy. So I wanted to have Kristen come talk to us and have a conversation with her as we both process together. How do we begin to process the sexual abuse crisis going on in our nation? It's been going on politically with the Epstein Files and the political figures we have in office. It's been going on for a decade and more in our churches. And so there's a lot going on there. And I thought Kristen would have great insight for us with her life experiences. So, Kristen, as the Epstein files have been dropping over the last however long that has been, and but we had a fresh batch this past weekend or a couple weekends ago by the time this episode is aired. What is your reaction as you've looked at some of that, seen glimpses of it on um social media? How are you finding yourself responding?

First Reactions To The Epstein Files

Kristen Miele 2:06

Well, first of all, thank you for having me. It's good to talk to you together again. I feel like we're such almost colleagues from afar in the same space and in the same kind of work or general work. And we're in it because we love the Lord. And so my first response to everything going on with the Epstein Files is heartbreak because I think that is Christ's response, right? That is his response to um systems that are abusing and exploiting people, and we should naturally have sorrow that vulnerable people who should be protected have been exploited instead. And so I think it's not you kind of you kind of touched on this already briefly, but it's it doesn't reveal anything new about human nature. This it just confirms it. It just confirms how evil and how dark we are, and um it shows the the brokenness of humanity. And it's it's incredibly grievous, but it's um it really just causes sorrow. I mean, how could you not read any part of that and be completely heartbroken and frankly angry that this has even occurred?

Jessica LM Jenkins 3:25

Yeah. I know for myself, anger is a an emotion that rises up in my heart generally faster than sadness. Um, I feel anger first a lot of the time, and that's more my personality. So that's been one of my responses is the anger and anger mixed with heartbreak and sorrow and and even some confusion. Um, I you have slightly different algorithms going on than I do, is algorithms very individualized. But on my algorithms, I'm seeing a lot of the people I associate with online being rightfully upset, saddened, um, burdened, trying to have change. And yet when I look at maybe people in real life or churches that I know, it's crickets, which is a whole other layer. Um, I guess I often expect politicians and men in power to do horrible things, but I also expect the church to speak up for the vulnerable and the weak and to address heinous evil. And it is confusing when they do not. Um, what are you seeing? Because again, you swim in a s a joined but slightly different circle than I do.

Kristen Miele 4:52

I agree with you. Uh our algorithms might be different, but we're sensing and seeing a similar response. I I I don't know why it's hard for the church to say, you know, woe to those who cause little ones to stumble. Like that, those are the Lord's words. It's not a metaphor, it's not un hard to understand. This is like sin and its power and its secrecy, and that combo, I mean, that harms the vulnerable. But it's not it's not optional for us to feel one way or another about it. We're meant to um feel heartbroken, we're meant to feel anger, we're meant to uh desire justice because that's God's heart. Um it is really bizarre to me that it's almost falling on partisan lines. Like I hate that. Yeah. Um when it's a moral issue that Christians should all see as problematic. I feel like, frankly, my husband and I talk about this because he watches um late night uh talk like comedy talk show stuff, you know, like late night tonight kind of thing. And whole say sometimes secular folks who do not claim Jesus as savior are speaking out more about this than Christians are. And that's a problem. And I agree because we are meant to feel strongly about this. Yes, we're meant to take it to prayer. Yes, we should we can know and and have some peace in the fact that the Lord will take care of this, but we're living in the here and now. We're we're meant to be talking about uh the here and now as a community. And so I agree with you. I'm I'm sad to see that there's a lot of crickets around the local church.

Silence, Algorithms, And The Church

Jessica LM Jenkins 6:35

And I feel like the local church, I just actually wrote an article on this for my Substack and published it this week. Um, the article is called What 50% of Study Bibles Are Wrong About Bathsheba. Um, so anyone listening can go look at that. But as I was pondering through that article, it really just struck me how, in again, this is my experience, so it's not normative for all people, but in my experience, the local churches I've been a part of, and my dad was a pastor, so I have been literally in church since my mom was pregnant with me. Like there is no time I have not been in church. But I feel like they churches really do not understand the severity of the sexual abuse crisis, either how widespread it is or how deep the damage is to the survivors. Um I was for my article, I was doing some statistics. So I'll share a few of these. And Kristen, please, I'm sure you have plenty of statistics as well. And I want to hear some from you, but just and again, this is in my um most recent article on Substack with all the sources from where I got these specific stats. So I'm not pulling them off of like Google AI. I have the sources in the article for you. But according to these sources, um, about 81% of women and 50% of men have been sexually harassed, assaulted, or raped in their lifetime. Um, so in our local churches, that's more than three out of four women and half of men who have had some sort of unwanted sexual contact. Um and most of the time, rapes are done by somebody known to the survivor. Um, so the whole idea of some stranger grabbing you does happen. Um, but the majority of the time it's somebody you know. And so when I'm thinking about churches, the people being sexually abused in churches, it may be by other people in the same church. Another stat I came across was one study, very scientific study, um, said that one in four men admitted to either attempted or completed rape. Um, and an additional 39% admitted to verbal coercion of intercourse or other sexual activities. And so as we look at our churches, you have the major the vast majority of women and half of men have had some sort of sexual assault in their background. And you have a quarter to half of men, and I'm not trying to demonize them, this is just what the study shows, have in some way sexually harassed or pressured a woman into sex. And I feel like our churches do not understand the gravity of that situation. What is your experience and what other stats do you think would be important to share, Kristen?

Kristen Miele 9:46

So I agree with that statement. And I think part of it, if you can stay with me here, is that and I think about my background in sex ed, right? Churches don't know how to communicate about sex. It's an awkward topic, it's uncomfortable, we haven't done it. Add impurity culture, legalism, um, generations of silence, uh, also sexual trauma and abuse that people experience, and then that compounds their ability to discuss uh the topic, understandably so. You add that into the mix of the church environment because it's part of the church environment. So then how do we now talk about sexual abuse openly? How do we acknowledge statistics like these openly? How do we say this is going on because we know, we know, leadership knows that abuse, rape, assault, harassment is not an out there problem. It happens in our churches because people are in our churches and people perpetuate those things. Christian institutions are not immune. I mean, you you would have to be like blind, deaf, and unaware to not read here and see all of the stories around sexual abuse and sexual scandals in the church the last, well, forever, but the last 10, 15 years. I feel like I hear about them every single week. Yeah. And you know, biblically, we know that there's forgiveness, we know that there's repentance, there's grace. Um, biblically, I would say there's not a lot of room for like cancel culture necessarily in the sense that Jesus doesn't cancel people. Like his arms are open, prodigal son. However, repentance requires that people confess their sins and that um there are boundaries in place and that there's a new life. Like when I was a little kid, and you talk about growing up in church, yeah, I was taught it was like this 180, this turning around, right? You're completely leaving it behind. And that is not the case for these folks who repeat offenses. And so the church needs to have clear boundaries around that. Very rarely do I read something about something going on in the church and see that that church said, Hey, this has happened. We're getting him or her help, but they're also losing the position for a time and we're doing something about it. Or, hey, this illegal activity happened. We're actually calling the police. Yeah. Like that's going to be the most loving thing to do. And I'm not saying that that's an easy road to walk in the local church, but it's necessary to consider what boundaries does our church have in place? What are our next steps for when these things happen? And what will we do with various scandals? Like, how would we handle that as a church? And I don't know how many leaders talk about that because I think most just hope it's not going to happen. Kind of like most hoped that we wouldn't watch porn, that we wouldn't, you know, cheat on our spouses, that we don't have sexual brokenness issues, which is just wrong because we we all are sexually broken.

Jessica LM Jenkins 12:49

And even though it's very prevalent in churches, I think most individual local churches still think it's an out there problem. That church down the road has the problem, but we're okay. Um, at least that's the vibe I get from being a church my entire life.

The Scale Of Harm: Key Statistics

Kristen Miele 13:06

And if you think about it, I mean, I work with or am connected to groups who work um in accountability and freedom from pornography usage, sobriety from porn. And so many of them, when they try to speak at churches to the church body, that's not allowed. The church doesn't really want that. They want some programs on the side, they want some resources, they maybe want some help here and there, but they know if they talk about it from the pulpit, then people might come forward with like, hey, I need that. My husband needs that, my wife needs that. And that means that they have to do something about it. And so honestly, I'm telling you the truth. Many churches don't want that kind of programming in their church from the pulpit because then they have to do something about it. And so it's kind of the idea that ignorance is bliss, and that if we're silent about it, then maybe it's not a problem. Um and that's not all true. It's it's not a safeguard. Um, our our sexual ethics as Christians should really be paired with honesty and wisdom and active protection, which means that we're we're discussing these topics, both from the pulpit and within our our small groups, our community groups, you know, within our church family.

Jessica LM Jenkins 14:22

Yeah. And I think one thing, I mean, your mention of honesty there is so important. I think one thing as the specific American church, I know I have podcast listeners who are not in America, so, but I think the American church has to reckon with the sorid history um of sexual abuse against minorities in American history. And especially um, this I went to a Southern Baptist seminary, so I'm gonna pick on them because I got my degree from them, so I get to pick on them. Um, but especially the Southern Baptists who separated from the other Baptists over the issue of slavery, which was white men in power sexually abusing women of other races, specifically black women largely. But I mean, when you have what America did to the indigenous population, sexual abuse was a part of that. And it's been rampant throughout our history. I'm seeing reactions online of people like, oh, the Epstein files, this has never happened before. And rightfully so, people of color are like, no, this is the history, our history that's been happening all along. Um, but I think our churches have to grapple with real honesty that goes back hundreds of years in order to face some of what's going on all around. But it's easier to just ignorance is bliss and not talk about it.

Kristen Miele 15:50

Absolutely. Once you start talking about it, problems arise and confessions happen. And while we see that as a a positive thing because it means that there's hope and redemption, I think a lot of churches see that as too much to handle.

Jessica LM Jenkins 16:03

Um and it can disrupt power structure because what if it's a deacon or an elder who needs to make a confession? Now you have a big thing, you know, it's not Joe Blow or Jane Doe who's confessing. It's somebody in power. Your leadership structure is oriented around this person. And now it's not just helping someone, it's you have to restructure the whole church and figure out how to tell people and it gets messy fast.

Kristen Miele 16:32

Absolutely. I totally agree. And you were asking about statistics. Every time people are talking about this topic, I always think about the statistics around leadership, how many folks in church leadership are currently using porn. It's like 70%. I mean, it's really high. And currently might mean that they've watched it once this year or twice this year. It doesn't necessarily mean they're watching it every week, but they basically haven't gotten full control of that addiction, that compulsion, um, of that temptation. And that is a problem. It doesn't mean that they shouldn't have their position necessarily, but it doesn't mean that they need help, that they need accountability, that they need somebody to talk to when the desire arises rather than just when the when they've already admitted it. Because if you have a really great kind of accountability set up for these folks, these real people who are struggling with these real desires, then you won't need to have the confession because the sin might not happen. You know what I'm saying? So to really again, I always think back to sex ed, when you're really able to consistently have conversations about this topic, you can easier have conversations about the struggles you have as a man or woman and your sexual desires.

Jessica LM Jenkins 17:49

Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. And I'm just thinking of, again, structures of power in our churches that 70% you said that are using or viewing porn even infrequently, they have other pastor buddies who they are A, afraid to tell, but B, they're propping each other up and they're not having these conversations, holding each other accountable, or making space to talk about these things. And um there's there's this whole idea of um an underlying pornified view of women that has seeped into a lot of places that we don't even realize. Um, you've mentioned to me that you do solicitor education. So briefly, I would love to hear a little bit about that because I think the fact that you are doing education for men who have been, they've been caught, if I'm correct, trying to solicit sex. Um, and so you're trying to re-educate them, that gives you a very unique perspective on the Epstein files, the sexual abuse crisis, and how some of these sorts of men think about women and the way a unique glimpse into the way a pornified view of women impacts um the male psyche.

Why Churches Avoid Sex And Abuse

Kristen Miele 19:17

Absolutely. Yeah, teaching at these programs has given me a different perspective and it's given me some empathy as well for these men, but I can explain that in a minute. So, solicitor education, if your listeners aren't aware, um it doesn't always occur. It really depends on what is locally available to solicitors. Most of the time, when people are found to be paying women for sex, um, and it's illegal, they go to jail. Um so in the state where I'm living, when sting operations are done to catch these men, particularly if they're pursuing underage women who are actually not underage women, they're police officers in this case, um, but they don't know that, they are given the chance to go to school. It used to be called Johns School, although that was somewhat derogatory. And so now they call it solicitor education programs. Um, but you get the idea. It's for the what used to be called the Johns, the people who were trafficking these women or soliciting them. And what it does is it helps to um end the rate of recidivism. Like it keeps them from going back if you were to if you are to educate them on what is actually happening. Because most men just think, oh, I'm gonna pay this woman for sex because that's what she wants to do. She wants to have sex with me and she's gonna get money out of it. So it's a win-win for both of us. What's the big deal? Whenever I walk into these schools and I'm walking into one in a day and a half, I do it about four to five times a year. They are so angry that they're there because they're angry they've been caught. And I guarantee you, anybody that Epstein files, it's probably the same feeling. It's that initial human reaction of, I'm not actually mad at what I've done. I'm not gonna blame myself. I am angry that I have been caught. And so when I walk in and I talk to these men about how porn has gotten them to this point, has gotten them to this point in their life where they are paying women to have sex with them, they are usually pretty resistant because they're angry they've been caught. But when I talk about what porn has done to their brain, you know, all of the research, secular research that shows how they're when somebody watches porn, the part of the brain that lights up is the part that deals with objects. The statistics are far higher for men who are currently watching porn than men who have been sober from porn on if they accept violence towards women. If they were to see a woman um in a situation where there's violence, they wouldn't interfere. So if men are, in other words, if men are consuming porn with regularity, they are less likely to interfere in a violent situation where a woman is being hurt. Um, and they're more likely to be violent, of course, during sex. Why? Because that's what they consume. And you know, there's I'm public health background, there's this phrase in public health. You've probably heard it. So if you're listeners, what you consume, you become. And it's just a general phrase. Usually it was referred in my studies to talk about food and media somewhat, but but porn is the same thing. Yeah. Porn is the same thing. What you consume, you become. You think it's normal, you think it's typical. And so of course, porn teaches you to objectify women. Of course, porn. Teaches you that, you know, the younger the better. I mean, generally when people start watching porn, they watch something, it might be unexpected for them, but it's gen, it's like kind of generally exciting. But as that becomes less and less exciting because it doesn't hit their dopamine levels the way it did at the beginning, they search for things that they might have thought at one point were kind of ridiculous or crazy or way out there. And they're in this world now where now they're looking at stuff they never would have looked at this amount of time ago. And so one of those things is really young girls or women who are meant to look really young intentionally. They're meant to look like children, which is it's disgusting and terrifying. And you know, we've all heard about deep fakes and AI undressing women. I mean, children are a part of that. And that comes from porn, partially, because it it gives men power or women when they watch these clips, when they watch explicit content. It gives them power, it makes them feel in control, independent, um, yet powerful. And those are all very attractive to us as people, but particularly to men, especially if they don't have that in their home life in any healthy way, or in their childhood in a healthy way. And so porn is very attractive for more reasons just than it's naked people. And this connects directly to how much they might offend, they might solicit, they treat women with disrespect and objective objectification. Uh, it it changes how they view people. And, you know, it's it's interesting because one of the times I was teaching these these men, I was talking about how porn impacts their brain and how it teaches them to objectify women, to see them as objects, right? One of the feedback I uh reviews that I got that day, and I don't know who it's anonymous, right? I I I take feedback because I want to know what they think about the presentation and et cetera, was literally I couldn't focus on anything she said, and then basically made a derogatory comment about my body. Yep. Literally, he was objectifying me while he was teaching about objectifying, like that's how deep it is, right? I mean, this is frankly, without Jesus, I I don't have the ultimate cure for them. What I give them is healthy tips and like thoughts and prevention strategies and kind of give them the education to help them move away from porn. But it is so addictive and it absolutely impacts their relationships, not only with their spouse, because many of them are married, but with their children and with the opposite sex. Um, it impacts their relationship with sex, of course, and their relationship with the Lord if they have one. So um it's no different for people in power, you know, whether those people have power in the church community or in the political community. Um it's extremely interesting to study, but again, heartbreaking and it makes me angry.

Repentance, Boundaries, And Reporting

Jessica LM Jenkins 25:13

Yeah. Absolutely. And I I the fact that you keep mentioning how the porn and then even I believe I would imagine soliciting can give them um this sense of power. Um, one of the stats I put in my article was that um studies have shown that rape and sexual assault is not about lust. Purity culture taught my generation, you know, don't show your bra strap, don't show any midriff, don't show your knee, because then a man will lust after you and that'll lead him into sexual sin. But what the statistics and the studies are actually actually showing is that lust does not lead to sexual assault. Power, a desire for power leads to sexual assault. Yes, and I think that needs to be understood in our churches as much as any of the rest of the statistics, because as churches need to create boundaries, they need to understand how sex and misuse of power, sexual abuse and misuse of power are two sides of the same coin. They are literally connected. And so to take a man who's dealing with, or woman who's dealing with being a perpetrator of sexual abuse and say, well, we'll just get them to stop lusting and keep them in positions of power where they have access to vulnerable people is not the right move because the sexual abuse is a power thing, much more than a less lust thing. And, you know, you're bringing that up in your solicitor education as well. So I just wanted to further comment on that.

Kristen Miele 26:53

Yes, it's it's spot on. And I'm really thankful to, and some of your listeners will know who this is, to Jay Stringer, who has done a lot of research on this. He has a book that was like transformative for me in Sex Ed called Unwanted. He did a ton of research on this. He is a counselor, so he has that background. But he really talks about what are these desires that are good desires, desire to be known, to be loved, to be intimate, to be cared for, you know, all things we can find fulfillment in the in a relationship with God. Um, what are the how have these good desires twisted? Um, and what have they become? And so that was really helpful for me to understand um, wow, peop men in in this context are wanting power. They're wanting control, and porn makes them feel very powerful. I mean, think about it, you can shop for literally anyone and consume that. That is very powerful. And that's the same as these people who were alongside Epstein going to his island, um, abusing children. It is the same. They it is that power dynamic, and the younger it's almost like the better for them because there was more power and control, which is such an awful twisting of um God's design for image bears.

Jessica LM Jenkins 28:05

Yeah. And yeah, I think as I've been thinking about and reading, even reading through some of the Epstein files, um, I don't go deep into it because it's just horrific. But one of the things I read in one of the Epstein files, and I'll try to keep it PG, um, was how Epstein and our current president were working together, allegedly, in the Epstein files. This was reported um by a likely victim to auction off um underage girls. Um, and they would measure the girls and they would they would rate the girls and then they would auction them off. And as I was reading that, it just it really reminded me of the book of Esther and how, again, men in power gather a bunch of what today would be underage girls and they put them through beauty treatments, which Epstein was doing, and they rate them and they put them before the king, and how much um, the entire Book of Esther um really is based on a sex trafficking, sexual abuse situation with underage girls. And um how all throughout scripture the benchmark for absolute depravity in a city or a nation, um, there are themes throughout scripture of the benchmark of absolute depravity being when women are horrifically sexually abused and trafficked. And it it's a theme that just pops up all throughout the narrative throughout the Old Testament leading into the New Testament, showing the absolute brokenness of the world.

Kristen Miele 30:01

Yes, I think that connection, I'm glad that you made that connection. I saw that in your stories the other day, you know, on Instagram. You and I were chatting about it. This connection is really strong. And I just studied Esther recently in a Bible study. And, you know, the the lens of that book doesn't leave us in um despair. Like there is hope, and you know, I sign off all my emails, right, for such a time as this. Like it's a powerful quote, her connection to Mordecai and what she did. Um, but when you're little, it's painted as this pr princess story. We it's like so sanitized, and that's not even true. Esther was very much in a human trafficking uh situation, she was taken into a system, like you said, where young women were like collected and groomed and evaluated just for the king's pleasure, and she has no consent, like her body is just used, and she didn't ask for that. So it's I mean, it's clear the Bible, the Bible does not hide sexual injustice. So why is the church?

Porn In Leadership And Accountability

Jessica LM Jenkins 30:59

Exactly. And I think a lot of times we either sanitize these passages, we make Esther about it's like America's next top model or a beauty pageant or something like that. You know, that's how it was always framed for me. And I've even had pushback from people online, like, no, I don't think it was a sex trafficking abuse situation. I think it was like America's next top model. And I'm like, okay, um, imagine yourself as this girl who has been taken, that's the language, taken from her home, put up for a year of beauty treatments, sent for one night with the king. One, they don't have a relationship. She has to walk into his room, do whatever he wants, and as soon and the only way she will ever see him again is if he happens to remember her, which he's seeing hundreds of girls. So Esther had to have done had to have done something pretty memorable in the bedroom. Who coached her on that? You know, these are the questions I'm asking once I start reading these stories of women of the Bible from a woman's perspective. When you start thinking, what actually is going on here? And sure, we don't want to preach that from the pulpit on Sunday morning with, you know, I don't want my eight-year-old daughter hearing that. Not Sunday school. But you need to pause and think about, I can't make this into a beauty pageant. That's not what's going on here. I can sanitize it some for the little kids that'll be in the room when I talk about it. But we need to be honest with what the Bible shows about abuse of women. And we need to, I've just, this is kind of the last series talking about rape and sexual abuse. I've done three episodes on Bathsheba already. So if you haven't heard those, go back and listen to the three episodes on Bathsheba. But we also need to stop shaming women who are survivors of sexual abuse and blaming them for being abused, like the church has done with Bathsheba. 50% of study Bibles implicitly or explicitly blame Bathsheba for her being raped. That statistic alone is horrendous. That tells me that, and that's of the study Bibles I was able to look at. I was not able to look at every study Bible in the world because I don't have access to all of them. But of the ones I could get a hold of and I could get my followers to send me the ones they had on their shelves, 50% blamed Bathsheba for they victim-blamed Bathsheba for what happened to her, or said she consented to it, which is wrong. Um and that means we need to, as a a global church, a church as the whole, start really examining what are our Bible teachers and pastors teaching and can they even recognize sexual abuse when it's in literal black and white in front of them on the page? Are they able to recognize it in the pages of scripture? And if they can't recognize it in the pages of scripture with 50%, cannot, according to the resources I surveyed in the case of Bathsheba, if they cannot recognize it in scripture, are they going to be able to pastor it in the pew? Right. Right.

Kristen Miele 34:33

And if if we haven't changed much since Bible times, which whenever I read the Bible, I'm reminded that we haven't changed much. Um you think about sip if if we kind of simplify it, it's powerful men with women who are disposable to them and sexual access. And then they're compelled, pushed, forced into silence, which is really enforced by by fear. Doesn't that sound familiar? Like Epstein's world is wealth and influence. His victims were nobodies, you know, that's what groomers do. They pick people who are very vulnerable, who are invisible. Yeah. And they're benefited because they get what they want and nobody asks questions. You know what I was looking at today? Um, in regards to Epstein files, not that she, but so Pam Bondi's Bondi, who is the, you know, the current AG, she ran. Did you know this? Maybe you did. I just didn't know this. She ran an anti-human trafficking group when she was in Florida. She chaired the Florida uh statewide human trafficking council and made combating human trafficking a key focus of her administration. And now she's the AG, like being, you know, wiffle waffling on on answers and what's going on. You know, she said originally she said, Oh, I have all the files on my desk and we're gonna go through them and blah, blah, blah. And I mean, we have seen no justice. No justice for anything. No. And she was in Florida. That means Epstein was doing that. She was on this, you know, committee. Uh-huh. And there's Epstein with a human the one of the largest human trafficking rings right under her nose, and she didn't spot it. So or she ignored it. That's horrendous. Yes.

Solicitor Education: Inside The Room

Jessica LM Jenkins 36:17

Yeah, and I mean, people in power give passes to people in power, and that happens in the local church. I'm just gonna say it. It happens in the local church. I mean, one of my seminary professors, it wasn't um sexual abuse, but he committed a felony. And um, he was arrested. He was put on house arrest for a year, and his students, other professors are all like, oh, he's fine. He's he's now a pastor again. Felon, but a pastor. Because people in power, I'm not just gonna blame men here, people in power protect other people in power. And this is not the way of Jesus. As we as we start to close this episode out, I think we need to talk about the way of Jesus because people in power protect people in power. Even those who claim to be Christians, um, even those who are like super strong evangelists are still just protecting their buddies in power. Um it's just like men in power. Kingship in the Bible goes hand in hand with sexual abuse constantly. We see it with David. We see it, you know, all throughout scripture. When a city is judged harshly by God, it's become partly because of sexual abuse and not taking care of the vulnerable. But Jesus, I really want us to end here because I feel like as Christians, this is where we get our hope. We can look at the situation and be like, that is a flaming disaster of epic proportions. And as our black brothers and sisters and our indigenous brothers and sisters would very quickly remind us, it has been a disaster of epic proportions for hundreds of years. This is not a new problem. But the way of Jesus is the answer. Jesus not only takes care of the weak and vulnerable, he flips power structures on their head and he demands that we stop our idolization of power.

Kristen Miele 38:38

Yes. Yes. I think when you discuss Esther, you know, and I mentioned the kind of corny signature line I have, but it's actually a it is a really powerful scripture because, you know, Esther's told to hide who she is, her identity. Very much from the king, who is about to persecute the Jewish people. Her silence initially keeps her alive. Like initially her silence looks good. And remember, God is not mentioned in this book at all. Um, but then there comes a moment when silence is becoming dangerous. And Mordecai says, and I have hid the scripture up, it says, if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise from another place. But who knows whether you've come here to this kingdom for such a time as this? Is that not spoken to us still? Like you can remain silent at this time, right? Relief and deliverance will arise eventually in the kingdom of God, at least. Um but who knows? Is this your time? Are you here for such a time as this? And I would argue that yes, we it is for such a time as this. Silence can feel protective, but actually, silence also enables harm, you know, and we can say that to the church. I mean, there is a moment when speaking becomes obedience. Amen. God can work through compromise systems. Um, he doesn't endorse them, but he can work through them. But God doesn't cause Esther's exploitation, he didn't cause these young girls', you know, exploit exploitation, these the abuse of these children. He doesn't approve of like harems and child abuse, but God, praise the Lord, he does redeem uh through those systems because he is God. And Esther's name is remembered, and we know her story, and her experience isn't erased. And in a world where exploited women are are forgotten, you know, the Bible remembers them and records their stories. And he acts on their behalf.

Jessica LM Jenkins 40:41

And we see in the New Testament, Jesus cares for women, he loves women, but never in an objectifying or even a sexual way. He Jesus is the literal opposite of seeing women as an object. Especially in the Greco-Roman world, women were second-class citizens. They couldn't have a testimony in a court of law. They couldn't, I mean, uh Greek philosophy viewed them as deformed men. They weren't even fully their own thing, they were just broken males. Like and so Jesus saw these women as valuable and he he lifted them up and he said the last will be first, and the first will be last. Leadership, the one who wants to be great in the kingdom, is actually needs to be the servant. And so he and he gave women voices to speak. And Esther needed to speak. The female disciples had a chance to speak. Jesus cares that we use our voices, and he cares that women's voices are believed. He sent the female disciples at the resurrection to the male disciples, and he said, Go tell them I'm I'm risen. And the male disciples did not believe them. But Jesus wanted them to use their voices and he wanted them to be believed. This is part of God's value, the safe protection, the love, brother to sister, not objectification, not sexual, but respect, honor, outdo one another in doing good. And I think your point about Esther, for such a time as this is a great place to sign off this episode because for such a time as this, um we are here in this moment, brought here by God for such a time as this. Thank you so much, Kristen. I appreciate having you here with me tonight. I appreciate your wisdom and your insight. Those who are listening, you can again, you can find Kristen. Um, her website is sexedreclaimed.com. You can find her on Instagram. I will post all of those links to everything for her there. And excitingly enough, she also has a book coming out in December 26 from Baker Publishing about how to have the sex talk with your kids. So this is another way you can use your voice. We sometimes feel powerless that we can't get out there and change the political scheme or even sometimes our local church. But we can teach our kids about God's design for sex, about how to um walk in their bodies, how to understand their bodies. And Kristen is has written a book for us on that. And I can't wait for it to come out. Kristen, do you have any final words for us?

Porn, Power, And The Brain

Kristen Miele 44:01

Well, thank you for having me. Uh this is a heavy topic, but you know, part of the reason I'm in sex ed is because God talks about sex. So why shouldn't we? Got educated about sex, why shouldn't we? And I feel the same way about sexual exploitation. I mean, the Bible exposes sexual exploitation. God, if we believe that God is the ultimate author of the Bible, that He works Through people to write the scriptures, then God talks about sexual exploitation. He doesn't excuse it. He is going to bring deliverance. So the question for our listeners, for the church, I think is the same as it was for Esther. Are you gonna stay silent or are you gonna speak? Even though it might cost you something.

Jessica LM Jenkins 44:44

Amen. Well, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your voice and everything you do. For all of those listening, I appreciate you. I am planning the next episodes. We will be after this episode, we will be moving into Lent, and we're gonna have a focus on the female disciples. So be sure to come back for those episodes. I have some exciting interviews scheduled as well as some um episodes with just me talking about Jesus and his female disciples. So that will be a shift from the heaviness of Bathsheba and sexual abuse, but it is just as necessary to understand and get into our brain, mind, and body if we are to understand how Jesus views women and how Jesus loves women. And as we make Jesus' attitude towards all people, our attitudes towards all people. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May He make his face shine upon you and give you peace. Have a great day.