Mary Magdalene Was Not A Prostitute And The Bible Already Told Us So

Forget the legend. Meet the woman the Gospels actually introduce: Mary Magdalene, a named disciple from Magdala who funds the mission, follows Jesus from Galilee to Jerusalem, stands at the cross, and becomes the first herald of the resurrection. With Rev. Dr. Jennifer McNutt, we unravel centuries of conflation and let Scripture lead the way back to clarity.

We start by dismantling the most persistent myth: Mary as a penitent prostitute. Dr. McNutt walks us through how Western harmonizations, editorial subheadings, and art fused unnamed figures with named women, especially the “sinner” of Luke 7 and Mary of Bethany. Then we return to Luke 8, where Mary is named first among the women who traveled with Jesus and supported his ministry from their resources—evidence of status and agency in a world where female patronage was real and consequential. That single chapter reframes discipleship itself and exposes how much we miss when we skip it.

From there, we trace Mary’s narrative arc across all four Gospels to the garden of John 20, where the risen Christ commissions her to announce the good news to the disciples. We explore why that moment satisfies New Testament criteria for apostolicity, how Junia and Joanna reinforce the pattern, and how translation choices have often dulled the force of Mary’s proclamation. Dr. McNutt also addresses modern portrayals—from The Chosen’s strengths and missteps to the long shadow of The Da Vinci Code—and situates the Gospel of Mary within its Gnostic context, contrasting it with the embodied, eyewitness testimony the canon preserves.

This is a thoughtful, text-first exploration for listeners who want scholarship without the jargon and history without the haze. If you’re ready to trade the composite caricature for the faithful witness the evangelists intentionally highlight, press play. Then share this conversation with someone who still thinks Mary Magdalene’s story is small. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what did you relearn about Mary today?

Dr. McNutt's website: https://jenniferpowellmcnutt.com/

McNuttshell substack: https://substack.com/@jenniferpowellmcnutt

The Mary We Forgot: https://amzn.to/4cGpUoE (affiliate link)

Transcript

Welcoming Dr. McNutt

Jessica LM Jenkins 0:00

Thank you so much, Reverend Dr. Jennifer McNutt, for being with us today to talk about Mary Magdalene. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. You actually wrote a book. You wrote The Mary We Forgot, what the Apostle to the Apostles teaches the church today. So I am so excited that you are Dr. McNutt is a, she's a reverend elder in the Presbyterian Church. She is a professor. She is a scholar. And so her work works to bridge the academy and the church, to make research and theology accessible to both the church, the lay audience in the church, and to the um scholarly professional world. And so, Dr. McNutt, what made you want to study Mary Magdalene?

Jennifer Powel McNutt 0:50

I love that question because I think people assume you must have always loved her or like, you know, thought about her. And I always had questions about her. And I found that she was really absent from

Why Study Mary Magdalene

Jennifer Powel McNutt 1:06

my church. And so, and I came from a church that had uh talk about some of the women of the Bible, and um, but what she meant and what her story really was was very confused to me as a kid growing up in the church. Um, I think the culture really shaped a lot of perceptions of who she was and um just kind of ignored, I would say, in terms of her importance or you know, significance. And so I've have seen the issue in the church of like overlooking her or confusing her, being shaped by the culture instead of being shaped by scripture. And then yeah, exactly. And then in the academy, too, um thinking carefully about how the church has interpreted the women of the Bible and and seeing that as valuable, that and how that has shaped our perceptions today of the women of the Bible. And I began to notice in my reformation classes as we were reading the women reformers, how often they highlighted Mary Magdalene and in such a positive way that gave validity to their voices and to their contributions to the ministry of the church and what a difference it was between how they were engaging with her and how the male reformers were engaging with her. And so, um, yeah, so I've just found it to be a very fruitful topic. A lot of people have been like, How did you write a whole book on Mary Magdalene? But there's really there really is so much more there than we realize. So much there.

Jessica LM Jenkins 2:53

Yeah. Yeah. As you were doing your research, what are some of the main confusions around Mary Magdalene that you saw? Um, like, is she a prostitute or who is she?

Jennifer Powel McNutt 3:05

Yes, that's certainly the main confusion, I would say, is her relationship to a life of prostitution before she met Jesus. And it's really exciting when we look at scripture to

Debunking The Prostitute Myth

Jennifer Powel McNutt 3:19

realize that scripture never identifies her in relation to that activity or that background. Um, and even though the church, especially in the West, has remembered her predominantly as a penitent prostitute who sort of turns her back on these other ways to follow Jesus in the Bible, it's a really different story than that. And so that's that's probably the main um takeaway, I would say. But the other is um that the Western tradition doesn't have a view of her as apostle. And it's been really wonderful to do my research and discover that even as the Western church you know believed that she was a prostitute, it also at the same time recognized often

Apostle In East And West

Jennifer Powel McNutt 4:14

that she was an apostle. And typically we've we've assumed that was only in the Eastern Church, but it's also evident in the Western church. So it's like it's a point of continuity, but it's very inconsistent.

Jessica LM Jenkins 4:26

So that's really fascinating. I grew up in kind of a Baptist world. We didn't talk about church history very much, and the idea of any female apostles or Mary Magdalene being apostle was nowhere even considered. And so to hear that there's church history basis in both the Eastern and Western church is exceptionally fascinating. And I appreciate you bringing that up.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 4:53

Yeah, and even in our Protestant tradition, so that's that's exciting. Not just the women reformers, even the male reformers have recognized it. Um they limit her impact, um, whereas the female reformers see it as an open door, you know. So yeah. Um it's helpful. It is helpful to see how the people of the past

Many Marys, One Magdalene

Jennifer Powel McNutt 5:16

have interpreted the women of the Bible. And we realize that sometimes we are coming to the same kinds of conclusions, or sometimes we need to approach it in a different way, or um, and scripture should be the one to to direct us.

Jessica LM Jenkins 5:34

I love that. Bringing it back to what does the scripture say? So speaking of scripture, there are a lot of Marys in the Gospels, and sometimes people aren't sure how to decide which Mary is who. Is there ever a conflation where people think, you know, this the other Mary or this Mary, that Mary, or the woman um anointing Jesus? Does who Mary Magdalene is, does that get overlapped or confused with other female figures?

Jennifer Powel McNutt 6:03

It does. Absolutely. Um there are a lot of Marys in the in the Gospels um because it was really the most popular name for a woman in the first century. And in that kind of like Jessica and Jennifer. Exactly. Yes. I know so so similar. Um, but I would say that the Bible goes out of its way to distinguish Mary Magdalene from the other Marys. Um, and that's really once you realize that and sort of put all of the mentions of Mary Magdalene, because she's mentioned in all four Gospels multiple times, almost as many times as Jesus' mother Mary, and she is always connected to Magdala, Magdalene, you know, there's one time where she's called the Magdalene. Um, and so that really helps us to clarify. But in the history of the church, because of the way some of the practices of reading the gospels and harmonizing them, um, a lot of the unnamed women that are in the stories became identified with named women.

How Conflations Took Root

Jennifer Powel McNutt 7:16

And in the case from what I could uncover from church history, the way we got into this situation is that the four there are four stories total of a woman anointing Jesus in the gospel. So one in each gospel, and three of them are unnamed women, so we don't know. Um, and then the fourth is in John's gospel, and it identifies Mary with Bethany, with the context of Bethany, which is a totally different region than Magdala and Magdalene. Yeah, they're totally different places. So, um, and in fact, in scripture, there is also a tendency when that Mary connected with Bethany is mentioned, she is mentioned in relation to her sister, Martha. Whereas in Mary Magdalene's case, she's always mentioned in connection to Magdala. So, or uh Nick, we could talk about that. But um, and so what they ended up doing is that, you know, uh, well, I saw it with Augustine. You know, Augustine harmonizes these stories. He makes those unnamed women, especially the woman of Luke 7, who's who's known as a sinner woman, um, Mary. She becomes Mary, but she's still distinguished in Augustine's eyes from Mary of Mary Magdalene. Um, so but she becomes Mary Bethany. So Mary Bethany now is the sister of Lazarus, is like the sinful woman. Um, and that becomes interpreted as a prostitute, um, right? Sinfulness, prostitution. And so, um, and there's no there's no reasons in scripture to do that. In fact, when we look at Luke chapter seven, when that woman is introduced, you know, Mary Magdalene is in is introduced for the very first time in Luke's gospel right after, you know, um, as though we do not know who she is, and a lot of information is given about her. So there's just really no reason to assume that she is the woman of Luke 7, except for our Bibles have perpetuated this interpretation. If you look at the King James Bible in the paratext at the subheadings of the chapter of Luke 7, it tells you this is the woman, this is Mary Magdalene in Luke chapter 7. And so that's another way that we have been taught that this is who she is. Yeah, but it's not correct.

Jessica LM Jenkins 9:48

So if I'm understanding correctly, the editors put in those extra little bold parts in the translation, and then they labeled the Luke 7 woman as Mary Magdalene as an editorial aside, not as part of scripture, but it trans it informs the way we think about it.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 10:07

That's exactly right. And it it's reflective of the tradition, but it also is shaping new readers, right? It's shaping exegesis and theology and yeah. So yeah.

Jessica LM Jenkins 10:22

That is that's also fascinating. It's been interesting as I've studied the female um disciples to see how many, especially in the resurrection and crucifixion accounts, there's a bunch of women named, and to see how often commentators um overlap those women. And so trying to pull apart who exactly are we talking about is always fascinating. Well, in the reformation. So talk to us for a second. I was just gonna say real quick.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 10:47

No, no, please the reformation is really interesting because they are the ones the that are trained in Renaissance humanism.

Luke 8 And Women Disciples

Jennifer Powel McNutt 10:55

So to go back to the sources, the original languages of scripture, they are the ones the same year as Martin Luther's 95 These to say this is not this these women are not all the same women. They are separate women. So that that began the conversation with the 16th century, but then it didn't always rule the day, you know, rue the day, I guess.

Jessica LM Jenkins 11:21

Yeah. Because traditions are so strong, they just keep carrying on, even when scholarship is like, hold on, we need to think about this. So we've talked about Luke 7, and Mary Magdalene is not the woman in Luke 7, but she is introduced in the first time in Luke 8. So can you tell us what is significant about her initial introduction and everything going on in Luke chapter 8 with the women?

Jennifer Powel McNutt 11:48

Yes, it's such an important chapter, and it's easy to skip over because we're often like looking for the parable of the sower. And so we're like, we skip to verse four instead of seeing what's happening in verse three. And verse these first uh verses are telling us that Jesus is traveling with women. Um, Mary Magdalene is named first in a group of three that are named, and then the text says that there are many other women. So there are women with Jesus and with the twelve. And so we want to make a distinction when we say the disciples, we don't just mean the twelve, we also mean the women who are with Jesus because disciple means student. And I think the confirmation of this is seen in John's gospel when Mary Magdalene hears Jesus call her name, Mary, and she says Raboni. So she's saying teacher. So that's one of the reasons we know that she is a disciple of Jesus's. And the text says that she is with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. And there are other gospels that confirm this as well. Um, she's named across the four gospels, and she's named, you know, as with him through this time. And then um Luke 8, going beyond Luke 8, does highlight how she's at the cross and at the tomb, and then the empty tomb, and then witnessing Jesus' resurrection. But um, this particular chapter also highlights for us about the fact that she is financially or one of

Female Patronage And Agency

Jennifer Powel McNutt 13:27

many financially supporting Jesus' ministry. So it indicates her independent, that she has resources available to her. She can control where she walks and goes. Um, and then the fact that her name is not associated with a man, with a father or a husband or a son is also setting her apart um as, you know, someone of prominence. And it's very unusual to identify a woman um with a location rather than with a male relative. Um and so, and we can see that the rest of the Marys that are named in the Gospels, they're all named with uh, you know, male relatives. Uh, Mary Bethany is connected with her sister Martha. So that's but then they're connected with Lazarus. So it's, you know, anyway, so Mary Magdalene is is odd in that way. Even Jesus' mother is identified as Jesus' mother.

Jessica LM Jenkins 14:31

So, right?

Jennifer Powel McNutt 14:33

Yes. So all of that signal signals that the gospel writers know she's important, they know what she's about to do, and they are trying to point her out to us.

Jessica LM Jenkins 14:44

So and what is significant about the fact that Mary and the other women in Luke 8 are financially supporting Jesus' ministry? That's something I was never told, and that I was like, wait a minute. I think if I'm remembering correctly, the only named financial supporters of Jesus are women in the world. Or women, yes.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 15:05

I know it's incredible. Well, I we have too often been hidden from um or the reality of female patronage in the first century has been hidden from us. We've assumed that women did not have access to resources or inheritance or even um, you know, financial uh benefits from businesses or um that is not the case. You know, it's it's much more complex than that. I've always recommended when Koick and Amy Brown Hughes were on this topic is so helpful um for highlighting the patronage of women and their access to resources. There's a lot more that they could do. And but it it's also an indicator to us that she's not a prostitute because prostitutes in the first century were slaves and they did not have access to resources. Um, so it's another indication of why, of how she's not a prostitute.

Jessica LM Jenkins 16:08

And I really want to talk about that for a second because I've been thinking about this whole prostitute-esque um side of things. So I think our, because we don't have slavery in the modern culture.

Anointing Stories Clarified

Jessica LM Jenkins 16:20

Well, we do, but we just don't call it slavery. Um, but we often think of prostitutes as independent women who are choosing this lifestyle. But you mentioning that prostitutes are typically slaves completely shifts the way we view that entire institution.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 16:37

Yes, actually, but I would say it's it's in line with the the sexual exploitation that we do see in our world today, right? That's also very very hidden, but it's it's people who are forced into this life. Yes, exactly. So it's it's just it is a different situation though in the Roman Empire. So our assumptions about choice um are not valid in this case.

Jessica LM Jenkins 17:08

So that just further emphasizes that Mary Magdalene is a woman with choice, which she has financial means and she is choosing to follow Jesus and choosing to use her financial means to support his ministry.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 17:22

Yes, that's exactly right. And I think, you know, it's also a wonder to see in the Bible women who are prostitutes and who are following Jesus. And Luke does highlight, you know, that Jesus interacts with the tax collectors and with, you know, sinners and prostitutes and different, you know, figures. But it's that's not Mary Magdalene's story. And we want to read um her story and other women in the Bible in the ways that we have been invited to to understand their stories.

Jessica LM Jenkins 17:56

So that's wonderful. And Mary Magdalene, she gets confused with the women who anoint Jesus. Are there other women she gets confused with? You mentioned Mary Bethany conflate the two.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 18:12

Yeah. So I would say, you know, Mary, it's true that Mary Magdalene does seek to anoint Jesus. She is so it's kind of a confusion. It's it's it's um it is uh absorbing the two stories together. Yeah, and that's partly how church history has depicted her in the artwork uh across the centuries, is that she is anointing Jesus. And she she does seek to anoint Jesus, right? At the empty tomb. We know that she's bringing spices. All four gospels highlight her name at the empty tomb. She's the only one consistently named um across the accounts. So there's no question that she went there to be near to Jesus to tend to his body.

Jessica LM Jenkins 19:04

Yeah.

Why Accurate Naming Matters

Jennifer Powel McNutt 19:05

And that is, you know, a valid way to think about her as an anointer, but it's not for this other story. So um, yeah, so I mean, the only the most common way that she's conflated and has been throughout the history of the church is with Mary of Bethany. And that, yeah, that's a very complex discussion. I think the most helpful thing that we have is the fact that they are in two totally different geographical locations. And so um, in this debate, what those who perceive um Mary Magdalene as the Mary in the stories of Bethany want to say is that her name is only a reference to a nickname, and that's because if it were also a geographical location, then it it she wouldn't be Mary of Bethany. So um, yeah, so that's much discussed. I see that they are two different women.

Jessica LM Jenkins 20:15

Yeah. And so why is it important for the church to understand that there is actually a plethora? There's a whole handful of Marys, like five or more versus one or two Super Marys.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 20:29

Yes, I think it is important. Well, just to read the names of women carefully and to see when they are being highlighted or named, but even when their stories are highlighted and they're unnamed, um, that scripture is doing something unusual for its time. It's it's really defined the practices of its own age in telling the story of the gospel, of the good news. And so that's very exciting. That's surprising. And I talk about it in my book as a hermeneutic of surprise, which is that sometimes as we're reading scripture, there are surprises embedded in the text that a first century reader would be amazed by, or listener would be amazed by, and that that can clue us into the meaning of the text. And in this case, yeah, just just noting, you know, the the gospels do highlight, you know, Mary of Colapus and um Mary the Mother of Jesus and Mary the mother of James and you know these other Marys. So there are just so many more women than we realize that are there. And uh scripture doesn't tell us about all of them. Uh but we should we should be reading them into this, into the story, into our retelling of the story of what Jesus has done for us.

Jessica LM Jenkins 21:52

So I love that. And so these Marys, these women are exceptionally. Important and how they are depicted is really important. One of the questions I got from my followers on Instagram, they were curious if you have watched The Chosen and what you think of The Chosen's portrayal of Mary Magdalene.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 22:16

Yes. So I will, I'm a fan. I love The Chosen. It's been really meaningful to me in my uh watching as our family. We've watched it. I've it's driven me back to scripture. I've loved how it's interpreted things and then wanting to go back to the text. I think what it does right is it tells us the story from a different

Reviewing The Chosen’s Portrayal

Jennifer Powel McNutt 22:40

angle, you know, from the beginning, those first uh episodes that highlighted Mary Magdalene and Nicodemus, you know, who are present with, you know, Jesus' ministry. We get glimpses of them. In Mary Magdalene's case, she's there for all of it, right? She's there for every major moment. Nicodemus, though, too, with the burial of Jesus, you know, his role in the burial of Jesus is so important. Um, and so I think that he just had a great way to refresh the story that is routed in, you know, what scripture tells us. And so I love that part. I love how it has changed, I hope, the perception that people have when they think about Jesus' itinerant ministry to realize that men and women are both present and yeah, to know Mary Magdalene through that story. The things that I haven't loved have more to do with kind of indicating that she continued to that her demon possession led to sort of like um maybe a prostitution or sexual assault, you know, that kind of thing. Um, which is just drama, right? Bringing in the drama. We actually don't know what how she experienced seven demons. So it's very considered very severe according to Jesus in Matthew 12. Um, but you know, we we don't really know about that part of it. And then the Gospels do highlight her faithfulness throughout. Okay. Um, unlike someone like Peter, who struggles, you know, and needs to repent for how he re responds. She is consistently faithful. And so I understand they're trying to like humanize and draw out some of the complexities of the figures, but it's also really good for Christians to know that she was always faithful to Jesus according to the gospels.

Jessica LM Jenkins 24:44

So yes. Yeah, that's wonderful. I appreciate your insight into the complexities of both the presentation and Mary Magdalene herself. Now, thinking broadly about Mary Magdalene, there's been lots of depictions of Mary Magdalene throughout the years. I think in your book you talk about um the play, I'll probably slaughter the title, Jesus

Pop Culture And The Gospel Of Mary

Jessica LM Jenkins 25:05

Christ Superstar. There's obviously the Da Vinci Code. There's been um talk throughout the years that Mary and Jesus were actually lovers. There's even um the Gospel of Mary that some people want to point to. So can you interact with all of these various depictions in more modern culture? The Gospel of Mary isn't. We can discuss that slightly separately, but can you discuss some of those things as well?

Jennifer Powel McNutt 25:32

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And I've been shaped too by those, you know, examples you're giving and highlight them in the book because, you know, as a teenager, I saw Jesus Christ Superstar and was like, this is very odd. This is not what I what's going on here. And then um, so and then the Da Vinci Code came out while I was a doctoral student in Scotland, and it was like everybody was talking about it all the time. And my reading of that now as a historian is I think that that book got so much traction, in part is because the church has been so confused and so unclear about the importance of Mary Magdalene, you know, what it means to point to her in our faith. And so because we haven't really claimed her clearly, I think she was susceptible to a reclaiming by others. And the other dynamic that's happened is directly connected with the Gospel of Mary because um that text was discovered at the end of the 19th century. Okay, and then it um it was translated in the mid-20th century along with the Nagamadi scrolls and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Now, okay, probably your listeners will will remember hearing about or knowing about the Dead Sea discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which is not the same thing as the Nagamadi scrolls. These things are different, right? Um, but they were kind of they were found around the same time. And then the Gospel of Mary became grouped in with that, and it was all translated into English and published. And so in the mid-20th century, that created a lot of conversation, a lot of complexity for people trying to sort out what's part of the canon, what are these other books, what do they mean? What are they exactly? And I think again, creating a lot of um complexity, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing, but maybe you know, led to a promotion of the Gospel of Mary. And in this case, really thinking this is what the Da Vinci Code emphasized, is that the church has been hiding the real story of women in Christian history. And you can read the Gospel of Mary. There are many translations of it. It's very small. Um, you know, it's a fragment of a larger document. And I've actually seen it in person. I was in Berlin a few summers ago, went to the Neuss Museum, and got to see it uh firsthand. Um, and it talk about it in my book as well. And I my conclusion really, and I have an article on Substack about this, but my conclusion really is that um, you know, it our reading of the Gospel of Mary has taken like a modern, is a modern view of the Gnostic heresy, which it the Gnostic heresy devalues the human body, right? So the body is not good. And the only way that we can achieve salvation is through the mind, which is typically not considered something that um involves women, right? Women are associated with the body, and men are associated with the mind. And so it's one of the reasons why Gnosticism says for a woman to be saved, she must become a man. Okay. And so the Gospel of Mary then demotes the physical interaction and conversation and touch that Mary

Apostolicity And Junia

Jennifer Powel McNutt 29:19

Magdalene has to Jesus in the garden. And the reason that that matters is in part, uh, for lots of reasons, but one of the reasons is that John's epistle, the first epistle of John, is very clear that the testimony that we have received about Jesus and his resurrection is based upon accounts from those who have seen, heard, and touched Jesus with their hands. And that is actually Mary Magdalene. She's seen, she's heard and touched, and that is the basis for apostolicity, which is then that meaning one who is sent. And Jesus sends Mary Magdalene in John chapter 20. He sends her, commissions her, gives her his words, and calls her to bear witness. So, anyway, so those so the Gospel of Mary is interesting. It's it's we should know all that we can about the first century context, but it's not as good as the canonical scripture.

Jessica LM Jenkins 30:23

Thank you so much for that explanation of the Gospel of Mary. Because I see it, um, I think my followers see it on social media, and people, it's often presented as this is the secret word from a woman that the church has tried to ignore. And you need, you know, they try to use that as an elevation of Mary. And what I hear you saying is we don't need to rely on a Gnostic heretical gospel when scripture has important keys that show how important Mary Magdalene is and the other female disciples alongside her.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 30:58

Right. Exactly. We even know what she says. We get to see her words. Right. Um so yeah, that's exactly right. I think that's the right conclusion. Um, without, you know, sort of fully dismissing the the gospel of Mary as one that we should ignore. I think it's important to see it, but then it helps us to recognize wow, the gospel is so much better news than what is being told here in this other text.

Jessica LM Jenkins 31:35

So, yes. So we've taught, we've alluded to it, we've said it, but I really want to dive into it for a moment, talking about Mary as an apostle. Growing up the traditions I came in, I know other people have held this view that Mary bringing Mary and the other female disciples bringing the news of Jesus' resurrection to the male disciples wasn't anything special. That's kind of what has been taught in the traditions I come from. It's just a bunch of excited women going and telling somebody, and of course, women are gonna go excitedly tell something, but no, people do not recognize apostleship in that. So, how do we see this as significant and how would we explain that to those who may not fully be convinced?

Jennifer Powel McNutt 32:20

Sure. Yeah, so I think there's a few approaches. One is to say that the New Testament already identifies a woman with apostolicity, Junia in Romans 16. Um, and there is zero uh doubt, really, that she's a woman. So though sometimes that's been debated. Um, there's no evidence uh that that name was ever associated with the man. So that um is one of the reasons why scholars think that Junia could be a different name for Joanna, um, because Joanna is named in Luke chapter eight. Yes, and then she's also named at the tomb as well. And so the

Women As First Witnesses

Jennifer Powel McNutt 33:05

uh a basis for um apostolicity, one basis for that is to have been a witness to Jesus' resurrection, and Paul uses that as his uh claim to apostolicity. So that's that's one part of it. Of course, apostolicity though technically means one who is sent. And we see both in Matthew's gospel, but especially in John's gospel, that Mary Magdalene is sent by Jesus to go and to tell. And so she's she's sent by Christ Himself, which is not always the case, you know. No, it's just incredible. So, um, by the way that the New Testament defines apostolicity, Mary Magdalene meets all the criteria, but she's more than just that moment, because if you see to her presence in Luke chapter 23 and then Luke 24, when she the women are in the room with the male disciples and Jesus appears and he says, I am sending you as my witnesses. So it's another way, it's messenger, it's witness, it's you know, and the witness that they bring is more than just that moment. And I think that because we often don't talk about the women with Jesus in his ministry, we think only about them at the empty tomb. But they have already experienced his power, his healing power, because in I think I forgot to add this, but anyway, in Luke chapter eight, she's described as a woman delivered from seven demons. So they've already experienced his healing power and deliverance, and then um they have received his teaching, right? She's already said that, Rabonai, and they've received his teaching, they've been participants in his ministry and contributors financially. And then that's why the gospel writers say they're at the cross, they're at the tomb, they see where the body is laid, they see the tomb sealed. Then she comes the next, you know, as soon as she can, she comes after the Sabbath and is able to be present. So all of these indicators to us highlight are making claims about her apostolicity. Um, and in the history of the church, for the Western Church, uh, Mary Magdalene's connection to Jesus is the basis for the apostolicity of the Western Church. So that has also been throughout church history an important affirmation for the Christian faith coming into the West. So that's really exciting as well to see that. And yeah.

Jessica LM Jenkins 35:56

It's so exciting just to think through and to think through what Jesus is doing in the Gospels, what the gospel writers are doing. You mentioned it just a few minutes ago, how the Greco-Roman and thereby Gnostic philosophy associated women with the body and men with the higher upper levels. And as I as I think through the whole of the gospel story, it's likely that women were the ones delivering baby Jesus into the world. So it's women who usher God and the flesh into the world at the incarnation. And then it is women who are at the resurrection. The two most important moments in Christian history, women are there, but those are also two important moments that have to do with the body. It's almost like God is taking the misogynistic

Translating Proclamation Fairly

Jessica LM Jenkins 36:45

philosophy of the Greco-Romans that are like, women, you're just the body. And he's like, Well, God's gonna become a body, but interface with women first. So take your philosophy, and I'm going to elevate that and show that this is something beautiful and holy, and I'm going to honor women in contrast to the dishonor of the culture.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 37:10

Yeah. Well, and then when she speaks, because getting back to what you also said about how it's minimized, you know, the going and telling is minimized. In John's gospel, the verb that's used is one of a kind. And it's Angelusa, which is used for is the basis for um angel. And it's the feminine form, uh, the feminine participle of angel. And so she's announcing it like with this angelic authority. It's just incredible. So that's such a cool picture. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, yeah. It's not like passing a note, or like we get in our translation, we get tell. Tell is the same. It is proclamation.

Jessica LM Jenkins 38:01

Is that another instance where our English translations? I read somebody talking about it, may have been you. I've read enough, I can't remember who it was, but talking about how um when the male apostles do do this Greek word they're preaching, when the women do the word, they're just telling.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 38:19

Telling, yes. Yeah, I mean, I haven't done that study throughout to see, you know, it depends on the translation or whatever, but in this this is a one-of-a-kind moment in verbs that's being used. So it's yeah, worthy of our time and attention. And and oftentimes I've noticed it's not just the Bibles that don't represent the full weight of what's happening, but it's it's even the commentaries just overlook it.

Jessica LM Jenkins 38:51

So yes, they do.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 38:55

Yeah.

Jessica LM Jenkins 38:56

Yes. Well, thank you so much for your time to talk to us about Mary We Forgot. I know you cover pretty much all of this information in your book, The Mary We Forgot. What other books besides yours um would you recommend for listeners who are wanting to learn about Mary Magdalene specifically or female disciples in general?

Jennifer Powel McNutt 39:20

The books

Resources And Further Reading

Jennifer Powel McNutt 39:21

that I would recommend are uh Women Who Do, Female Disciples in the Gospels. This is by Holly J. Carey. Um great resource. Um Sandra Glon's um edited volume, Vindicating the Vixens, is really important work that's highlighting many different things. I've appreciated appreciated pretty much anything Lynn Coeck writes by women in the world of the earliest Christians. Um, but I've also used so many different, I mean, Craig Keener's work is so valuable and helpful as well. Um those are some, those are some of the names that come to mind that are great resources. There's so many others. And I in the back of the book, um, I have extensive end notes with all these um citation references of the good scholarship that I'm drawing from as well as doing my own work. And so hopefully that can be helpful to readers.

Jessica LM Jenkins 40:29

Awesome. And just one brief side note, I just saw on Substack Um Sandra Glon mentioned they're doing a vindicated Vixens 2. So there's going to be a second one coming out, I think. Not sure when. I just saw the initial announcement, but I was like, oh, good, yay! That's exciting. So exciting. I love it. Awesome. Much needed. Well, thank you so much for being here. I will um put all of your links and everything in the notes so that people can find you and your book and your substack. I'll try to get that article you mentioned about um the Gospel of Mary because I'm sure some people are gonna want to read that. And thank you for being here. This has been very informative and very helpful to really pull apart who is Mary Magdalene, apart from all of the clutter around her. If you could at the end just briefly summarize who is Mary Magdalene for us as we walk away from this episode.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 41:29

Yeah.

Who Mary Magdalene Is

Jennifer Powel McNutt 41:30

Mary Magdalene is a witness of Jesus' power. She is a recipient of his ministry and a contributor and participant in his ministry. And she bears witness then to Jesus' death on the cross, to his burial, and to his resurrection. And then she is the one that Jesus sends to share for the very first time the good news of his resurrection. And so she's one we should not forget, we should not overlook, and we should read more carefully.

Jessica LM Jenkins 42:06

Well, thank you so much for your time today. And for all of the listeners, I hope you are having a blessed Lent season. One of our next episodes will be a further discussion on the female disciples with Joan Taylor and her co author of her book on female disciples, Bond. Um, and so we're going to be talking with all about all the female disciples with them here in a few weeks. Thank you again, um, Dr. McNutt, for being with

Closing And Upcoming Guests

Jessica LM Jenkins 42:36

us today.

Jennifer Powel McNutt 42:36

Thank you so much for having me.