GRAPE: Unfined/Unfiltered
GRAPE: Unfined/Unfiltered
James Ontiveros: A pioneer in Santa Maria
James Ontiveros represents the ninth generation of his Santa Maria family farm and with Justin Willett he is turning out some of the most dynamic examples of Pinot Noir and Chardonnay you'll find in the region. Our own Cameron Russell (Director of Sales, Southern California) has been close friends with James going back to his somm days, and they connect in this episode to give you all the scoop on all things Ranchos de Ontiveros
Well, good afternoon. Uh, my name is Cameron Russell. I'm the director of sales is Southern California for grape expectations. And today I have the pleasure of having James on the Barrows of Ranchos de Ontiveros, um, native nine and Rancho for NATO. I'm here to talk about his history of the area and his amazing wines and vineyards, um, that I've had the pleasure to know for many years now. James welcome. Um, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me today, Cameron.
Speaker 1:Um, James, I just wanted to kind of start out maybe, um, you kind of give us a little introduction, uh, tell everyone what you do, um, where you're located and kinda maybe a little family history of the area.
Speaker 2:Okay, great. In terms of what I do and where I'm located. Um, I'm farmer and winemaker. Um, more really focused on the farming side, uh, at our estate vineyards switcher in Santa Maria valley of Santa Barbara county. And that's been a home for me, my whole life and, you know, going quite a ways back. So we're, we're uh, currently with two estate vineyards in the standard valley and one is our Pinot noir focused vineyard called Rancho onto Barrows. That's the ranch that I grew up on and that's where native nine, which has our estate funeral war comes from and then directly across the valley about three and a half miles away, uh, is Rancho Vedo. And that's actually not far their ranch. I grew up on, but as part of my family's Mexican land grant, our second Mexican land grant, which was spelled ratchet tip escape, which are where many of the Santa Maria valley vineyards, uh, are, are really, you know, from and have been. That was the key development in Santa Barbara county in the early 1970s and Santa marina valley. Uh, so grandchildren, Diego Chardonnay comes from that site where native nine kind of shrunk what I call the home ranch. Uh, and then as you mentioned, Rancho stay onto Barrows. I've got essentially three different labels or brands for each one of the wines, and that's a Cabernet project where Santa Maria is a little too cool. So it took us down to the San Diego Nunez valley where I planted a vineyard for the Cabernet project that's called Rancho stay onto Barrows, uh, and all kinds of separate looking labels. Uh, yeah, they have their own identity as, as they have their own property and of course style, uh, but that's what occupies most of my time. And then, uh, I also do a fair amount of farming, uh, beyond my own estate projects and that between those things, most of my life is made up from a work perspective wise around farming wine grapes and helping make wines, uh, for not only for myself, but for other projects. Um, and that, that bigger part extends from Santa Barbara county all the way up into Paso Robles and the north coast of California, as well as into Oregon. So a separate kind of slice, but all, all of the same,
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, rower farmer with a ton of history, uh, for the land for a long period of time. So I, and particular on the wines that we're discussing today, uh, you know, this is your heart and soul passion project. And I have been fortunate enough to have visit most of these locations. And I've carried the wines as a wine director for many years, um, myself personally, from Las Vegas to here in Southern California as well. Um, so I'm excited to, you know, get to showcase these wines and bring them in, uh, in a broader scale, um, to share them with more people.
Speaker 2:Well, not I'm frankly, probably more excited about that than you are. Even the challenge of the wine business is, is first understanding why, why should I do this? And then what story is it that I'm thinking should be told? Um, if you do like I've done in your planting vineyards from scratch it's do you think this site has something unique to say that you can help, you know, sand and shape and make into something. And then after all that tremendous gamble of, of time and effort, um, is, has been made and you start to make the resultant wines, then it's a question of great, how am I going to go sell these? Because I'm committed day-to-day to, to production stuff. I'm not able to get out and make sales trips, unless it's a very well thought out efficient effort. So, you know, I've, I've had the good fortune through my whole career to be able to rely on friends like yourself. Uh, oops, got to see what we make and, you know, I've really been able to, to be, um, very much advantaged by, by people who were in this business. Who've been, uh, found what we do to be interesting enough that they committed some real time and effort to it. Uh, it's it's a big deal. So getting to work with distributors and friends that we like helps us find the right accounts, we don't make a lot of wine. So it's all about getting it to the people where we have a similar ethos and we match up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I couldn't agree more with you. Um, you know, I'm very excited to share these with everyone and get them in the places they deserve. Um, you know, first I would also like to congratulate you, um, on the top 100 for this year for wine and spirits. Um, thank you. Maybe you can mention to us a little about how that all came about and what all that actually
Speaker 2:That how it came about is, was actually just a terrific surprise. Uh, and you know, and then what it means is really a big deal to me. Again, my story is a little bit odd in that I didn't come to this as much as people, we all use the terminology of like this, you know, this is someone's passion project where maybe another component of what they do is kind of how they pay the bills within the business and a bit in a unique way. I mean, my entry into the wine business was your Rancho onto Barrow's vineyard and native nine, which is my quote unquote passion project. And, you know, it's a tiny vineyard, it's eight acres, um, eight clones. And we've been, you know, since some of my, in the old days before burgundy was so expensive and we all had a chance to drink a lot of those, those wines fall in love with them. I became a whole cluster house, uh, with my piano bar starting at oh four vintage specifically. And so what's kind of fun is this year with having COVID really shut us out of the market for a year and a half. We went back and, and submitted a six year vintage vertical, um, of our wines to wine and spirits. And, uh, you know, the other folks who we thought really are into this kind of thing and, or are interested in how wines age, not just the kind of commercial commercial ability of a wine. And through that, that was how, uh, the wine and spirits folks, I think, who really understood what we were trying to do for those wines were among the top wines of the year and their report. And it it's a bit unfortunate because of how I've the nomenclature I've applied to these projects. They said, uh, you know, the Chardonnay was also very highly recommended as well as the cap, but, uh, it's because of the name of, of the brand, you know, the wines is native nine, uh that's how, how it got recorded. And they called and said, Hey, Ben, or I got an email, I guess initially, you know, you've been included in the top 100, which to me is actually, even though I've been doing this for 25 years, it's actually a really big deal because there are publications where you recognize that what they look at and who they pay attention to is again, a lot more in line with how I see the wine world. And we're just a tiny, tiny brand. Um, all in these, these separate bottlings are usually just a couple of hundred cases a year each. So there's in my now 20 vintages. There only been maybe one or two where we've been approached a thousand cases in the vintage. And so with, with that to be included and, uh, from the top 100, to me, it's, it's an even bigger deal. So I'm super, I'm super stoked about it. And I just, I really wish, uh, that, you know, I would have probably been a little bit more forward and trying to find a different, uh, market to route to market by sharing these older wines sooner, because you know, this is one of those things I think really resonates to those of us who were in fine wine. And that's what captured me on my first visits to burgundy was getting to see a stand at a seller where someone would share with you many old vintages and you could really understand the scope of their work. And, uh, that's one of the things I've been trying to put together all these years and in 2021, it's come finally come together.
Speaker 1:Um, amazing. And I couldn't agree more and I've been fortunate to have tried many if not, most of the vintages, um, over different periods of time and then, uh, different locations in different years. And although they do, I think quite vary and our true expression of the vintage, um, you know, I think they each have a part moon kind kinda see that vein that runs through each wine. And so to me, being a distributor here in California, it's exciting to now, especially have restaurants that can, like you said, use the burgundy model, um, and tastes multiple vintages and, and, and possibly buy multiple vendors to share those to the public. Um, so it's, it's exciting. Um,
Speaker 2:It, isn't it, and it's super fun. I mean, this is kinda, I feel like, you know, it's, for many of the years I've been working at beginning somewhere it's finally coming to fruition. And although it's, it's kind of a painful time, you know, as we came out of really locked down, COVID, it was also kind of the perfect time to go, Hey, it's a great time now to roll out some of these wines, as people are ready to go, you know, start rebuilding their seller for restaurants. And, um, and it it's worked out really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Wonderful. Um, James, um, maybe, you know, we can go in at another time each difference in the vintages and all those kinds of things, but maybe, um, let's just talk about in particular, like you said, uh, the, the, your peanut new, our vineyard, and then maybe your Chardonnay vineyard, um, you know, what clones or PLA plan w what are some, what's the soil types, what's the exposures like, and, and, uh, you know, with the winemaking is,
Speaker 2:Yeah. So in starting with, with the piano, Awarr, uh, I planted Rancho onto[inaudible] initially in 1997, I was 23 years old going to Cal poly San Louis as a double major in crop science and fruit science. Um, well working for Kendall Jackson, full-time seasonally, uh, in grow relations, which is the kind of industry terminology for the folks who source the vineyards and buy grapes. Um, and so to make the decision in 97, uh, as a 23 year old kid who didn't come from, you know, the fine wine business, my, my family, uh, although native nine is the name is kind of a nod to I'm the ninth generation of my family farming and ranching here in California. Um, direct lineage of grandfathers all the way back to 1781 came here with the Rivera expedition. Um, this was just generation after generation. We had vineyards, in fact, some of the original vineyards of, uh, orange and LA county, uh, before they moved up to Santa Barbara county just before statehood in 1850. Um, but a very different world than, I mean, they weren't thinking fine wine like we do today. And so when I did this in the nineties, the king of, of the industry was, was actually the queen, which was Chardonnay. And Santa Maria is a phenomenal place for Chardonnay. Um, but as a young man, I was realizing there's great Chardonnay that comes from all over the state. Um, you know, at the time I would save in Carneros was probably, and we don't, I don't think of Carneros isn't is Shirley being as strongly relevant today as it might've even been then, uh, but between there and the Russian river, um, you know, there's so many great places in Sonoma, Napa, certainly Monterey county. Um, you've got Santa Cruz mountains, Santa Rita Hills, all terrific Chardonnay areas. Um, and then a whole bunch that I'm sure we haven't even, you know, yet to see what they can do. Um, but with Pino, it was really kind of a minefield of, of quality. And there was a lot of mediocre. Um, there was a fair amount of poor, and there was very little, really, uh, terrific, but I had the good advantage of, you know, a couple of my buddies from college there, their folks who were really Gorman's, they love to cook and drink good wine. And I got to experience lane Tanner, uh, who was one of my heroes, um, lane was making, you know, these kind of elegant, fresh, you know, very vibrant wines, of course, Oban Claymont, um, who, you know, is probably globally one of the best known producers from Santa Barbara county. Um, and certainly among the best out of California,
Speaker 1:I think definitely one of the pioneers of the Pinot noir and Chardonnay are just winemaking in general for, uh, California. For sure. I agree with you completely.
Speaker 2:So it was great. Those were the, the wines that I got to kind of cut my teeth on and fell in love with that style. Um, and you know, well being a full-time student and working full-time for kennel Jackson, who was putting in a tremendous resources into Chardonnay, obviously, but also the piano. Um, I got to develop this, this small vineyard with the thought really being around. There's so many great places to grow Chardonnay, but Pinot noir seems to not have such a, you know, very defined space about who's doing the best work. So that's what pushed me to, to do that. And so I planted, uh, I, I was, I tried to plant all the way back in 96, um, but the winter of 95 was pretty warm and there were poor takes out of the nursery. And so I didn't get the binds, I wanted 96. Um, but that was a window of time where the, the newer Dijon clones that were coming into the us and become, um, more readily available. But we also had the advantage of a lot of vineyards that went in, in the 1970s here. So the older, what we call heritage clones were something that I was getting pretty familiar with. Um, and the Dijon is just really didn't. We didn't have a huge understanding of their, their breadth of work yet. Um, and so I did a mix and so the first five acres in 97 was a little, uh, Pomar for, uh, kind of a classic California clone that, that had, you know, obviously come from Pomar France, but been around for a long time and had a great history of quality, uh, to a, from vaudeville, um, another great local producer, uh, the Talley family, their top bottling of Rosemary's was it to a selection in that era grand day where they're at just up the road from Santa Maria. So I chose that. And then we also did, um, three of the Dijon selections, 1 13, 1 14, and one 15. Um, and that was great. And it, at the, at the outset, you know, those were important, good, exciting clones, but I wound up going on to plant the additional three acres and 2020, after being able to taste some of the, um, clonal lot trials that were coming out of the Byron winery facility in Santa Maria, that the Mondavi family had put a huge amount of, of just R and D with clonal material, all these different trials of spacing and rootstock and how those affected clone. Um, and essentially I got, because of just, you know, friendships with the team there, I got to taste through their wine. Um, you're in, you're out blind cause they would do all these trial lots and small scale blind. And my three favorite clones each, each one of the years that we did that were Swan, uh, Benedict from the original Sanford and Benedict vineyard, which is, is likely Mount Eden clone and a lesser known clone called one a, um, which is, um, is not very broadly planted in the us at all because it had flak virus. Um, but I thought, Hey, if I'm not trying to get a huge yield, this quality is fantastic. And so, um, I've kind of wound up with this mix of both heritage clones, as well as, as Dijon selections. And that, that was kind of set the backdrop or, you know, material. Um, our site is this very, uh, wind swept, upper elevation plateau that sits above the, the valley, um, on what, you know, the Europeans will call Louis it's, uh, essentially wind blown silts from the ocean. Uh, we're farming on silty sand, that's almost devoid of any nutrient, uh, in terms of organic material. It's just all what we've put in. So very focused on, uh, compost is our fertility program to help water retention, um, cause here in Northern Santa Barbara, we're in kind of the Southern California weather pattern of very little rain, the a hundred year average on our ranches, 12.8 inches is all, and that comes entirely in the winter time. Um, so it's, it's a cold desert on the ocean. Um, and from my place on that kind of highest Gartman, uh, it's, it's windy and, uh, it's a high quality, low production, lower vigor site. Um, and I, it didn't take long for me to, after my first trip to burgundy and getting a drink, a lot of those wines, I really fell in love with the whole cluster approach to wine-making. And so my first vintage was oh two, uh, made it Fox and winery, which again are, are cousins and friends and just, you know, kind of local legends here. Um, then in oh three, I went to a facility at the BN, the CDOT vineyard, where at that time I was now the director of sales and marketing made the move there in 2001 after harvest up in the north coast and the Russian river and Sonoma coast. And, uh, so from oh three on, um, no is dabbling and oh four was really my first whole cluster vintage entirely. Um, and the site that I have really worked. So with that style, um, we get what most people think is probably very hard to attain, which has pretty good lignification on the stems and the clusters really all the way up the shoot by the time we get to physiological maturity. And oftentimes that's in the low twenties, brick bricks wise or sugar wise. So we, we've kind of just found this, this path of, um, you know, that on the, on the lower side of alcohol, really great, great physiological maturity, and that works great with whole cluster. Um, the wine steak, they take some time to come around, uh, because of that. And it's very invoke now, but you know, the first many years, you know, people weren't making a lot of whole cluster wines. And so it was fun because they really stood out and people were intrigued by it. Um, and I think the wines hold up great, which, you know, goes back to this, re-releasing some of the, the library wines and showing people how well they can age. So, yeah,
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. And like on the whole cluster part, you know, the best whole cluster wines are the ones you can't necessarily tell that they're whole cluster wines. And, and I would have to say after tasting many, that is definitely the case with your wines. Um, it being in those vineyards, I know it's a real special place, poor soils windswept. Um, you probably don't have to do much green harvesting because it's all naturally done for you, I would expect. Um, but, uh, cause what are your yields there? Like depending on the vintage one to three tons per acre or something like that,
Speaker 2:That's right. I mean, one would be a disaster year and we've had, you know, many of those, um, over the 25 year history, um, three would be a strong year. And if we take that average, there's a whole lot of these years where it's a two to two and a quarter ton vineyard, really. Um, and that's with intention though. That's not that if we put more irrigation, if we put more fertility and in subsequent years, we've planted additional blocks. Now that don't go to native nine, but we grow for other wineries. And, you know, we've, we've figured out how we can get the production up a little bit. But the goal with this project really was always to really create a wine, not only of the site, um, being all a state where it only comes from, from that little eight, eight acre block, but also to showcase what the vintage gave us. And you'd mentioned a few minutes ago that, uh, you know, the wines for me, the goal is not to homogenize them and have them taste the same year in year out. Um, but to actually within the same stylistic band, try to allow to see what happened every vintage. And I think that's, what's been so fun about re-releasing this vertical is, um, there are not very many times where with, you know, high quality each vintage, you can see the arc of, you know, we're showing 12 through 17 and we're just about to release the eighteens this fall. So you can actually see here's what happened from the beginning of the historic drought in California, to the crescendo of it, to when we had rainfall again and how that affects these wines vintage to vintage, which is super fun.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Um, maybe we could talk a little, I mean, you talked a lot about the winemaking and stuff, but you know, these wines I think are, are balanced and they do have some, some wood on them. And then obviously if you're just releasing the 18 and in, you know, next fall and 2022, um, so is that typical about four years, uh, before release for current vintage for you? And then maybe a little note on, you know, the actual winemaking, you know, and wood would treatment like
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, typical. So we're releasing the 18, this fall of 21. So we've got 19, so three, three years from harvest to release and that cadence has been pretty, pretty much the way we've, we've stayed with it from the beginning. Um, one vintage was, was really, you know, not ready. And so we, we switched it around and kind of skipped a year. That was the 2015, uh, from the, from the phenomenal drought. Um, it created this kind of really unique tannic wine that would just said, well, this one's not ready, but, uh, yeah, the, the goal has been, you know, we farm organically, uh, with whole cluster. We've got to get the fruit in cold. So we harvest under the, you know, in the evenings under lights, by hand, um, bring the wines in and usually historically tried just to let them set for a day before we would, would start treading by foot. Um, then, you know, punch downs by the time you get to day four or five and there's really no, um, it's pretty caveman production, uh, approach. Um, we don't inoculate anything, uh, never have, uh, neither yeast nor ML, um, fairly, probably middle of the road barrel aging approach. Um, it's ranged over time from as, as much as 50, 60%, uh, down to as little as 25 to a third. Um, what we found is that because there's enough tannin coming from the stems that, you know, we don't want, unfortunately, this doesn't afford young barrels. We need it's. Um, always, uh, I can think of very little exception right now. I can think of none, but I'll say maybe at times we've had younger would, but usually three year air dried, um, in the early years because folks like Obama, Fremont were here and they were the French Waffer house of, uh, really piano where for California, I would try to use other per other coop bridge, um, just because that was already being done so well, it didn't make sense to me. So, um, a lot of Marcel[inaudible], um,[inaudible], um, those were two, you know, some of my go tos and then in recent years, we've actually started to fold in that some friends who are for air as well, but, uh, again, fairly fairly you'll, you'll not typically pick up Oak on the wines because it's intended to create a texture, not a flavor, um, with what we're doing. And then we always go to bottle and find it unfiltered. Um, and that process is it's about a three-year hold. So we release, we release, uh, the 18, this fall of 21. Um, and then kind of leading into the Chardonnay. We released the same vintage in the spring of that year. So the eighteens were released this spring of 21, and then the Cabernet is held one year longer. Um, so that's kinda how the, the, the cadence of how the wines come out are, um, yeah, that, I think I've touched most of the bases on the peanut, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's really more about a feel than any other single component. I think there's a textural component because of the whole cluster that makes it very unique. Um, and aromatically they're very, very dynamic, um, very broad and, and not, not super fruit driven or singular.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I, I agree completely. And I think that's what it was to show the genius in these wines and, you know, some of the most special wines out there, you know, while you have, you know, a technical aspect background in farming and viticulture and all of that, um, this is, these are really artists and wines. Um, that to me, show your artist side to this, I mean, you know, by feel by what nature's giving you, um, by what these places are producing. And I think that helps add to what makes these wines so special. Uh, well, yeah, I, I agree on that. Yeah. Thank you. And, uh, maybe just a quick little brief over the, um, the Chardonnay and Cabernet vineyard, because I know particularly that Chardonnay vineyard very special as well.
Speaker 2:It really is. Um, from the, you know, not just what, what is there physically, but also, you know, to me, is it R a mentioned, you know, I grew up on Rancho onto burrows and that was, uh, you know, more of a cow calf cattle operation, um, which means we, we raised mature mother cows that had babies. And that, that was our crop is we would sell off, um, the spring calf crop and June or July as young adults every year. Um, and then, you know, turning, turning that little by little more and more into vineyard where Rancho[inaudible], um, my state Chardonnay that's, uh, due north, uh, from, from Rancho onto varicose, and that sits on the Rancho Tedeschi land grant, which, uh, was, was not unlike the ones in Southern California way back, which were granted direct to my, my grandfathers, um, Rancho Tedeschi was actually granted to, um, it was the maternal side of my family. So, um, it was my great, great, great, great, great grandmother, uh, Donya, Martina, um, is what, what the Chardonnay is called kind of as a reference to that maternal side of our history and my grandfather don't wan Pacific go onto Barrow, sold our original land grants in what today would be Anaheim Placentia, your Belinda Bria, that area, uh, to move up. There's always a girl, right? And so, uh, he, he fell in love and married her and they wound up leaving orange county, uh, to move up here to an uninhabited, uh, portion of the Santa Maria valley. And in fact, Santa Barbara county, it wasn't called Santa Maria yet. It was, uh, they drove all the cattle horseback from orange county and arrived, uh, on St Mary's day. And so, although the, the, the name of the land grant was Rancho[inaudible] taboo scale as a Chumash word. So low local native Americans to this part of the coast of California, since he arrived on, on St Mary's day, he called the ranch Rancho Santa Maria, uh, from the outset and, um, Donna Martinez father. Um, he was what was called the super in the MP super and the NP of the mission system. So he saw the nonsecular lands, um, saw over them from the ag production side and his other daughter was married to Benjamin Fox. And so I was mentioning car cousins, the Fox inside, who were immediately south of our land grant. Um, so I wish there was a more efficient way to tell these stories, but, you know, that's, that's just the realities. There's a tremendous rich history here that I'm lucky enough to be a part of and, and get to share. Um, so I was had come back to, to Santa Barbara county to work for the Miller family, um, who all be in the CDOT and Solomon Hills vineyard in Santa Maria and, uh, the big French camp vineyard and Paso Robles. And then I had gone to work for them handling all their sales and marketing. And after 10 years, uh, in that role, I decided to start going out on my own. And so I, I was, he had already put in notice to, uh, make my move six months in advance. And I ran across the neighbors, uh, to be in the CDOT, uh, who owned Rancho Bernardo, the woods family. And they had heard the news that I was going to be leaving. And those two vineyards were both planted in 1973, the NATO and being a CDOT Benito had gone entirely to OBO Fremont since 1986 and Robin woods. Who's the closer to my generation, the, his folks had passed and he was kind of managing the vineyard, he and his wife on their own. And so he said, Hey, I've heard you're going to be leaving. What are you doing? And we were just catching up and I told him, yeah, it's going to be hard to not have a full access to whatever I want from being the CDOT. I'd love to have my own access to, you know, an older vineyard. And he said, well, what, uh, what are you going to do? And we wound up just striking up this conversation that led to me leasing the vineyard and ultimately taking it over. Um, and so after a number of, of years farming it and continuing to sell grapes to Jim Clendenin, it almost be mot. Uh, I started to make a little bit of Chardonnay from the vineyard, and I got to realize that it, it was really for being directly across the street from being a CDOT and an entirely different expression. Um, it's all whole, the whole vineyard in terms of Chardonnay is, uh, the old winter clone clone 72, which is known for its teeny little yields, um, but really high quality wine. And that's been just a tremendous fun opportunity. We, we made that, uh, under my ultimate label for a number of years before I realized, Hey, this is now our estate vineyard. And we developed in this state, um, label and package that we really tried to make sure, you know, fit the, the unique history that, that laid there. And, uh, Serrano of Benito has been on its own, uh, since the 2014 vintage. And we're making stunning wines, uh, that, uh, I just, I couldn't be more happy with. Um, and then I guess in 2016, why one, I'd had the same wine making partner, uh, Paul Wilkins since the inception of date of nine, but in 2016, I started working with Justin Willett, um, of Tyler wines, who I thought was making some of the best Chardonnay in all of California. And as much as I love what Paul and I had been doing, uh, with native nine, when Justin came on board, especially around the Chardonnays, just these wines are, are very, very special. Um, for anyone who likes the kind of old world approach, you know, Chardonnay and white burgundy, uh, they have pretty special leanings to something that you wouldn't necessarily think came from California.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, they are beautiful, beautiful wines. And I don't think he meant necessarily mentioned, you mentioned the clone type, but that these are own rooted, uh, not necessarily protected against phylloxera or any other things, but are still very viable and, uh, producing amazing fruit year after year. And for this long, have you seen yields go down because of that? Or are they just something special, something unique
Speaker 2:We did this year? Um, it's funny because it's, you know, getting to work with the vineyard that, you know, next year is its 50th year. Um, that's pretty uncharted water for most of us farming in California. Um, and so I'm constantly trying to think of, of, you know, everything I can to make sure that, you know, we really want to continue to take care of and foster this vineyard and have it continue on. Um, but we just finished the Sharday harvest this year and it was down considerably. Um, and I don't know, you know, we're also kind of back into a drought cycle, so is it a chicken or egg? I don't know. But, um, the production, there is always going to be tough because of when take bone, but as we see it getting into these, you know, pretty old years, uh, and with, as you mentioned with own roots, I we're doing everything we can without, we don't want to overplay your hand with a vineyard like this. Either want to leave it, you know, it's made it this long without a lot of change. And so we're trying to just steward its way into a continued, you know, reasonably good production. Um, and I, I really keep my fingers crossed that we can make that continue to work. Is it the wines are special.
Speaker 1:I agree. And I, I have my fingers across with you and, and hopeful that it stays for a long time to come.
Speaker 2:Me too. We share that. Yeah. Yeah. And then I guess the last one is, is, you know, when we started the Ranchos de onto Cabernet, you know, being, uh, uh, Chardan Pino house, um, which were the, the two vantages I've focused, most of my, my estate work and career on, um, I started to realize, you know, I, I grow a lot of Cabernet for other wineries and I just kept seeing, uh, a glaring hole stylistically and the kind of Cabernet that I liked to drink. Um, what you're going to call, you know, broadly the more, uh, old California style, which this wasn't so much processed so much, you know, really huge richness ripeness, and a lot of, uh, trying to let the vineyard kind of show a little bit more through, instead of all the, all the makeup that we see and in what's very successfully styled, you know, commercial wines today. And so that's what led me down to the San Fernando valley, a little west of, uh, happy canyon, which has been known to be, uh, the Cabernet area of Santa Barbara county and put in a little vineyard down there and the 16 vintage, which we released last year. And now it just releasing the seventies, uh, been able to do really cool, you know, this, again, kind of this more classic old fashioned Cabernet where, uh, there's plenty of richness and fruit there for, for the people who enjoy that out of Cabernet, but also there's some fresh, savory, even herbal elements, uh, which are not there by mistake, but that's, that's what I enjoy about wine is something that causes me to feel like, wow, that's refreshing and engaging, and I want another glass. So that, that project is still in its infancy with only five or so vintages behind me, but going really well. And a lot of fun also,
Speaker 1:Well, we'll definitely keep our eye on it and excited to see where that goes in the future. I mean, I think we both agree and as we've known each other and spoken many times over the years, you know, these are special places and special, lots and wines that are coming from these grapes from this land. And, uh, you know, when I drink wine, yes, having it be delicious is important, but also when it really truly speaks to you and represents a particular place, it just makes it, uh, even, you know, more special, at least in my opinion. And I think these, uh, showcase and highlight that
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. I, I one, you, you get it. And I know that's, that's for me a big part of the excitement of getting to work with crepe X and with yourself now that you've wound up, uh, you know, in a position where you, you know, the Southern California market. So well, you've got to work with my wines for a long time, all the way back to their first introductions in the Asia. And, um, I don't think I would want to be making any wine if I didn't think there was something singular about why, why there was a reason to be making it. Um, and I think that's, what's fun about working with yourself and, and a company like great backs is, you know, I've always found an easier fit in places that were more, more of a importer house and they were a domestic house. And, uh, hopefully that continues to be, you know, welcomed by new consumers. Um, the way it certainly has been the last few years, it's an exciting time.
Speaker 1:Well, I, I agree. And we're excited to have you or excited to have the wines and, uh, to build something special together. Um, yeah, just, uh, really looking forward to what the future holds. Um, James, I can't thank you enough for your time and all the, uh, insight, and, uh, we're very excited for what the future holds and really appreciate you joining us today. Absolutely. Thank you. Anytime.