Shachar Bergman: Kandu Cajons

~ Founder & CEO of Kandu Percussion Shachar Bergman discusses how creativity affects his work, personal and spiritual life.

Welcome to Kandu, we are Shachar and Yaniv Yaniv Sharabi – two artisan musicians who found a way to combine our greatest loves: music and design. When we're not handcrafting the Kandu percussion instruments, Shachar can be found playing bass in eastern-jazz-fusion and cross-over ethnic bands (or building awesome electric basses), while Yaniv plays guitar in a folk/world-music brother & sister duo. Kandu is there for you the musician, you the traveler, you the educator, you the drum circle facilitator and you the human, here on Earth, looking to find the beat, join the rhythm and connect to something bigger.

Kandu instruments are sold around the world – online and in specialist music shops. You can purchase them here on our site, or in our Amazon shop. We are also very happy to speak with you directly and take your order over the phone or by email. If you have questions about the instruments, are interested in making a special order or wish to order large volumes, definitely shoot us an email or give us a call.

Please visit-
KanduCajons.com

Recorded July 2026 on the phone between Ma'ale Zvia, Israel and Palmdale, CA.

This episode contains original music by Malcolm Moore.

Watch Mr. Malcolm's Music Factory Theme Song video featuring percussion instruments...all kindly provided by Kandu!

Watch Winter NAMM 2017 DRUM magazine video interview with Malcolm Moore for Kandu.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:28

All right, we are back. This is Creativity is the Cure. I'm your host, Malcolm Moore, and today I have my very good friend, Shahar. Shahar, how are you doing today? I am very well, thank you, and very happy to be with you at last. So great to talk to you again. It's been a long time. Now you are talking to me from very, very far away. I'm in Palmdale, California, in the desert. Where are you today, Shahar?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

I'm in Israel, in the lower Galilee of Israel, something like 40 minutes from the Sea of Galilee, in a small village called Maletvia.

SPEAKER_05 1:03

Yes. And now you know that I was in Israel once, and I quickly found out that the Sea of Galilee, are you ready for this? Is actually a lake. Is that true? It's a lake.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

And some of your rivers actually are bigger than our lake.

SPEAKER_05 1:19

And I think I remember I took a boat across it and we stopped and ate at a place called Peter's Fish. Is that still around?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Oh, I can't tell you about that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I hope so for them.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

There's a lot of restaurants around there.

SPEAKER_05 1:35

Yeah, I hope I hope to get back, especially to see your place. So let me tell everybody who you are. Shahar Bergman, founder and CEO of Can Do Percussion. Apart from being a talented musician, he is also involved in the construction of musical instruments, especially guitars, basses, and what we're going to talk about today, Cajones. So let's talk about how we know each other. Do you realize, Shahar, that next year we will have known each other for 10 years? Yeah, I was trying to figure out Yeah, because there's the video of me at the NAM show playing Kandu in 2017. That's amazing. And the way we got to know each other is a mutual friend, my good friend Martin Ditcham, who if you don't know who he is, he is the percussionist and co-songwriter with Sardet. He introduced us. There's a lot of things that we've done together over the years. So one thing I was doing is I had my own live family puppet show with Henson Puppeteers. And when we started doing tests for videos to see how it looked, I couldn't play the cajon because if you think about puppets, we have to film from the waist up because the puppeteer is under the puppet. If we want the puppet to be at my sight line, so I reached out to you guys. I was like, what am I gonna do? And you guys sent me two wearable drums, really fun drums called a Kitok and a mash box. And it was perfect because I could play it on my chest and we could see the puppets very well. So not only that, when you guys first sent me cajones, I started playing live around LA with bands. I also was a teacher at an elementary school, and we use those for all our performances. I find them to be brilliant for young students because they're easy and fun to play and sing along.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah, go ahead. I just said thank you. So far, I'm just blushing from the compliments.

SPEAKER_05 3:30

Well, and then for many years, I was teaching teachers how to do music medicine drum circles in Joshua Tree with my friend Christine Stevens. And so we started getting the word around the whole world about how amazing these are. I also participate with my friend, the great Peruvian drummer Gino Gamboa, every year at his International Cajon Day at Remo and Valencia. And we're actually doing one next week, so I can't wait to do that again. And really exciting, you helped me get cajones to some of my friends, including Anderson Pack, famous singer and drummer, Steve Gadd, and Steve's son Duke, who has sadly passed away since then. But it has been wonderful to alert the world to these because I still play around LA, and when I'm sitting on these things, everybody goes, What is that weird box you're playing? So it's always exciting to tell people. Not everybody knows what a cajon was. I actually never heard of it until I moved to California in 2013. And so I know people have been using them a lot longer than that. But yeah, it was really fun to discover those. So, with all that being said, before we get into talking about Kandu Shahar, I would like to go back in time with you to when you're a little boy and tell me what was your first creative memory. It doesn't have to be playing bass guitar or drums or cajon. When was the first time when you're younger you realized you were a creative person?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

That is a very interesting question. Before that, can I say something else? Sure. I uh I I I am not alone in Kandu, and it's very important for me to to include Yanev in this. He's my partner from the beginning in Kandu. He's responsible for a lot of the stuff that we're making. Yes, great carpenter, good friend, and a wonderful guitar player, also.

SPEAKER_05 5:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

So it's not I'm here today speaking, I'm speaking in behalf of everybody in Kandu.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

Yes, and it's important to note that both of you guys are great musicians, even beyond drumming. So that helps, and I think that's why one of the reasons why your instruments that you create have beautiful tones.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Thank you so much. So, about the creativity, you know, I can't point the exact moment. I can tell you that I grew up in a kibbutz, if you know what that is. Well, why don't we tell everybody so they know too? Okay, it's it was an attempt that succeeded for a while in Israel. And the idea was a community that is living together, people work together, there is um a place to eat together, the laundry goes together, and you go to school together, and you don't earn money. What happens is that we had in our kibbutz, for example, oranges and cotton and a garage, and we grew chickens and stuff like that. Wow. And from the income, every family gets a certain amount. Yes. It's a very yeah, so I grew up in a place like that. There was no cars, there was no roads inside the kibbutz that cars can go in. So I grew up running barefoot on the grass, climbing on trees, researching nature and stuff like that. Yeah, for real. I was always what I call I had the green knack, which means I always had that pulse from inside to research things. Oh, interesting. But I I don't I don't think I did anything anything really creative beside you know writing a little bit of songs like a teenager and stuff like that, yeah, informing my first band, which a lot of people do. I only when I started working with Wood then it like burst out out of me.

SPEAKER_05 7:31

Interesting. What age would that be?

SPEAKER_01 7:34

That that would be twenty two.

SPEAKER_05 7:37

Wow. Something like that. Interesting. Yeah. It it sounds like you did grow up in a creative environment. Even you know, being part of a community and running around and playing and having fun, you know, they say the science of play is very important for children, and it sounds like your your community supported that.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, it was uh it I I'll tell you, until the age of 14, it was the best place to to grow in. It was very protective. I'll tell you why, it was very protective, it's very uh quiet also. There's not a lot of influences from the culture from outside, so a lot of certain influence that young men and women meet these days, we I didn't experience it. Yeah. And only when I reach a certain age and you start to open yourself to you know the big world outside, right, then things start to challenge you. And but until then I was like in a bubble.

SPEAKER_05 8:38

It was amazing. Yeah, and you and I are both old enough to remember when there wasn't social media, so that helped both of us be very creative, right? Because if you wanted to have fun and be creative, you just had to come up with something by yourself.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yep, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's uh it's it's a very good vitamin uh in life to to have that.

SPEAKER_05 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Because it causes you to take two stones and a stick and do something with it, for example. Right. Or whatever. You you understand what I mean.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Were your parents creative? My mother was a gardener, like responsible for the gardening of the kibbutz we grew up in. Right. And my father was one of the best handymans I've ever met in my life. That's what other people say, also.

SPEAKER_05 9:34

This is not surprising because I see that both of them have influenced you, and it sounds like they're both very creative.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

My father passed away, my mother, she's doing a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 9:45

Building a garden is very creative, and being a woodworker is. So, knowing you, those two things I think led to what you do today. Do you think creativity could be implemented in curing people or at least helping people with mental health struggles like depression, anxiety? What has your experience been? Perceiving that or within yourself?

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Uh, first of all, absolutely yes. Absolutely yes. Small challenges for people that are designed to help them open up, for example, uh work amazingly. I did uh eight meetings of workshop for people with uh mental problems. Oh, that's wonderful. I did it like half a year ago or something like that. And the idea was that we're gonna build a ktaq together. Yeah, and then they painted on it, and then we did like a concert together. I know that it works.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

That's really beautiful. Alright, before we get into Kandu, I love the description on your website that says Kandu is there for you, the musician, you the traveler, you the educator, you the drum circle facilitator, and you, the human here on planet Earth, looking to find the beat, join the rhythm, and connect to something bigger. That's really beautiful. Thank you. Sounds like a mission statement. Let's go back in time again. What led you and Yaneev to start Kandu and how did you guys do it?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I met a percussionist, he asked me to make him a cajon. I did not know what a cajon was. Started researching out. I we built him the first one. Uh, he took it. Then two days uh afterwards, I got a phone call from somebody from a different town. I heard you're building cajons, I want one also. And it caught slowly, slowly. I have to tell you, it's a lot of trial and error to get it where we wanted it to be. Yeah. And we didn't know what we wanted to be in the beginning, also. We are not businessmen, we are creators.

SPEAKER_05 12:09

Yeah, yeah. Where did you do it? In the place that you are now or somewhere else? Where did you start building these?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

No, it was somewhere near else in a different uh spot in the Galilee, also.

SPEAKER_05 12:20

Yeah. Wow, and did your dad give you any advice because he was a woodworker?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

No, no. That that you know, there is something about Kandu that you should know. That even being abroad, you know, out of Israel to shows in England and NAM and stuff like that, and I know what happens in the market, and I know all the new things and stuff like that. I never do it. We only do what comes from inside us. Uh-huh. We never copy anybody, we don't ask for advice unless it's really technical advice. Right. And of course, we try all the time to answer to needs of uh of musicians.

unknown 13:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

A lot of our stuff was born because somebody came and asked for something, and we started researching it, and eventually something came out of it. That's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

I know a little bit about the history of the cajon. If people don't know, originally it comes from a sad story of slaves being brought from Africa and taken to Peru, and these wonderful people and musicians didn't have their drums. So they started to make cajones out of shipping crates, right? And they became popular, and then at one point, this amazing guitar player, Spanish guitar player named Paco de Lucia, he comes to Peru, he discovers it, and he's like, This is great. I'm gonna use this with flamenco music because it's very sharp, precise attack. But what does he do? He puts guitar wires inside of them to give a special texture. So most cajones that I've seen are either Peruvian with snare wires inside, or they are the Spanish ones with the guitar strings. Have either of those approaches influenced you, despite what you just said?

SPEAKER_01 14:15

We tried all kinds of things. I for example, me myself, my ears don't like the ones with the with the guitar strings.

SPEAKER_05 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Because sometimes you get this extra note inside. Yes. If they don't touch the top from inside all the way, there's this zing. I don't like that. I want our cajons to be precise and very, very articulate. Like when you hit a snare, you get the snare. When you hit a bass, you get a big bass, and we know how to play with that. We didn't know that in the beginning. We experimented a lot. Yeah. But eventually we found a way to create our own mechanism to go inside the cajon.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

There's so many reasons why I will only play your cajones, other than friendship and loyalty. I do like how you guys have the little, I don't know what they're called, but some of them you can stick your hand in and move this piece of wood and it changes the resonance.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah. Okay. It's it's a certain leverage that goes inside the cajon. Right. And when you push it in, it nobody can see me, so it's hard to understand, but it tightens the sides of the cajon. Right. So when it goes inside, it tightens it inside closer to where the wires are, and it would give you a higher pitch. Right. And when you will take it back, it releases it and it would give you a lower pitch.

SPEAKER_05 15:39

It's beautiful. I really love that part. And let me tell some people there that are as old as me, I'm 56, and I noticed in my 40s I started getting inflammation in my hands, which is scary being a drummer. Now, I know enough that if that happens, you need to cut down on caffeine and sugar. However, some people that's genetic. And what I love about your cajones, because I've tried all brands, is I don't have to hit them that hard. In fact, the lighter that I hit them, the better they sound. And that has helped me a lot from making sure my hands don't hurt to being able to play with my fingers. And these instruments you make, these cajones, they're so resonant that one thing I love to do is put a microphone in the hole in the back. Because if I do that and I play while I'm sliding my heel up and down, only with a microphone, I've noticed I can get bass notes. And the more I play, I sometimes can get in tune with the people I'm playing with. Have you ever heard that or noticed it?

SPEAKER_01 16:49

I mean, people do it, but uh nobody told it to me like that. That's amazing. I love it. That makes me very happy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

Yeah, the more I experiment with them. First of all, I would describe a cajon to people that don't know what I'm talking about. It is a box that you sit on. So, first of all, you can play the drums without bringing your drum throne. You sit on the box, play with your two hands. I have been trained by Gino to learn Peruvian rhythms. However, in most cases in LA, I'm playing pop music or RB or any any kind of thing like that. I have learned to make your cajon sound like a drum set. And so it's really like a drum set in a box.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

There's two basic notes to a drum kit, anyway. It's the bass and the snare. Right. And this is what you have inside the cajon. It's so simple, so intuitive. It's there all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:48

I've spent a lot of my career as an educator and a behaviorist helping special needs, or as they say today, neurodivergent students. So you might have a student with autism or Tourette syndrome, things like that that make life a little more difficult for them. However, when I get one of these kids on one of your cajones, I get them to start playing, and then I ask them to sing at the same time. And something that is most wonderful about that experience, if they have involuntary ticks, shouting out, or physical spasms or things like that, it all goes away. So not only are they having fun, it's healing them. And they get a break from the trauma of not being able to control some of their behaviors. So I feel like your instruments have healed people as well. Wow. That that wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

I'm blushing more now. Yeah, it's really amazing. And that that is amazing. So I have a question for you. Yes. If I may. So did you notice over time that the healing holds? Absolutely. Absolutely. Like their lives get better for for a long run.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

See what I'm yeah. I'll tell you why, because it builds confidence. I won't name them, but I know a couple very famous singers that you would never know. They have a really difficult, terrible stutter. But you've seen this before. They get up and sing, and you would have no idea, right? There's something about being creative and performing that you get a break from everything that you're struggling with. I have clinical depression. I'm on medication for that. But when I play your drums, I forget all about that. I always feel better after. It's cathartic, it's just totally amazing. And before I forget this, too, when I play Cajone, I often bring a kick pedal that's specially designed for Cajones. And then I have the little Zildjian hi-hat that with Velcro it sticks to the side. So I can play and sing and use all four limbs. So you're doing five things at once. And boy, does that help you escape the dark clouds, right? That's amazing. Yes, I really think that your products are very educational and uplifting and supportive of anybody that's going through something difficult. My friend Christine Stevens, who came out of Remo, she trained me to be a drum circle facilitator, and she's told me how she's often gone around the world to countries where there's two opposing forces, these people are against these people. She often invites them to come together. They play music, and before you know it, they're realizing they're very similar, and they start to get along, and there's just a love and a compassion that builds. So that's another thing you've got to remember about why it's so important what you're doing. Thank you. It is a lot of money. Now I've put together a drum set of the different products that I own of yours, but you guys have invented a can-do drum set, right? With really deep long shells. Can you tell me a little bit about the drum kit and what kind of hardware you use to hold it together?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Well, there was not really any hardware inside because it was all made from wood. Right. We made a bass drum from wood completely and two tams from wood, and the snare that had a very thin slice of wood on one side and then a tin can on the other side, which what vibrates when you hit the wood. And I don't know what. Hardware we put because we work with wood, so I can't say about that.

SPEAKER_05 22:04

I think what I'm trying to ask though is I've never seen this one in person, but I've seen the photos where you have a bass drum and some toms and snares, and some of them are suspended with metal hardware like you might use for tom toms on a regular acoustic drum set. For me, I put one together by sitting on the cajon, and then some of yours that are like toms, I have them on snare stands. So how have you put them together by experimenting? What what are some things that work?

SPEAKER_01 22:39

One of the most important things about this whole thing of sound is the the quality, the thickness, and the resonance of the part that you hit on.

SPEAKER_05 22:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

A lot of it is there. So I'll ask you a question. If I put a very thin piece of wood on on the cajon as the top, am I going to get a higher pitch or a lower pitch?

SPEAKER_05 23:08

If you put a thin part, I would say I would guess lower.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

You're absolutely right. Because it can vibrate more.

SPEAKER_05 23:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

You see? Yeah. Okay, so this is one of the ways to design sounds. Right. By using the the material that, you know, if it's thicker, you'll get a higher pitch and less resonance.

SPEAKER_04 23:31

Ding.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Right, right. Or a lower note, depends. So this is how we play with uh coming out with sounds. Right. Remember, we are carpenters, so we don't do it on a computer. We need actually to glue like 10 pieces and to write on it. This is 0.5, this is 1.2, this is the yeah, and then our eyes, our ears, sorry, our ears get confused. So we need to go home, come back again, try it again, eliminate the ones that we don't like. We stay with two or three, and then we kind of figure out which one we like the most. And this is how it goes. And it can take months sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 24:10

Yeah, I just gotta put this out there. Carpenters in Israel. I just I'll I'll leave that there. So your cajones, I forgot to say, they're so sensitive that what I often do if I'm playing with an acoustic band and I don't want to get too loud, I play with brushes. I love the sound of brushes, either using brushes, or I'll often play on the cajon of my right hand and then shakers, like little egg shakers in my left hand. You can really build a big resonant sound like you're on a drum set, but it's gonna sound very unique. When I did the theme song to my kids' show, I played your cajones on that, but it's funny because I used some really sharp sounding ones and they sound like military snare drums. So, what I'm saying is your drums are very versatile too.

SPEAKER_06 25:07

Deep inside the lighthouse on the shore of the sea is a happy, happy place called Mr. Malcolm's Music Factory. I'm Mr. Malcolm, and I'll show you around. We'll play all kinds of instruments, make beautiful sounds. I'm Lord Pumpumstick, I keep things in line. But if you need a friend, I will always make time.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

My name is Blue, and I'm here to help grow all the instruments and Yeah, we we this is exactly the continuance of what we talked about a moment ago. Because this is how we can create different lines of cojones with completely different sounds by playing with the thickness and the and the material that you we call it the top, the tapa. Yes. With that part. So that's how we do it. And then obviously we have the mechanism inside that we can decide if we want it to be a complete separation between the bass and the snare, or do we want it to be with more snare in the base without compromising the quality of the bass?

SPEAKER_05 26:34

Well, let's take a second to go through your different products. We obviously have the basic cajones that have come in different styles, different colors, different sounds. I love that you have the little cajon for the little kids because I'm a drum teacher, and when I get really young kids that are like four and five, their feet can't reach the ground. So I always travel with your little one. Thank you. So let's talk about the cajones first.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

First of all, what we did, also by trial and error, like always, was to to create two families of cajones. One of them is called Tempest. In the Tempest, through all the levels, there is a full separation between the bass and the snare. Right. So when you play the bass, it's completely clean, it's not has no snare inside it. The flame uh family comes from flamenco. Our cajons doesn't really sound like flamenco cajones, but you have more snare inside the bass. Right. That's the two families. And inside that you can choose colors, so obviously the price is different and adjustable legs, and then we have different veneers that also change the sound of the cajon. And you know, this is how it's uh it goes. And by the way, it takes a long time to decide that something is good enough to be a model. Luckily, we have a lot of uh very good players, such as such as yourself, for example, here in Israel. Yeah, that uh we can always send them stuff and ask them what they think, and we know that they will tell us the truth. I liked it, I didn't like it, the sound is like this, like that. So we learn from that.

SPEAKER_05 28:14

Now, most of your cajones are the same size and dimensions, but I remember you guys did a wonderful thing for me. You sent me one that was extra tall because I am 6'2, and I was a lot more comfortable playing on that size. So, what's the basic size and what's the bigger one that you sent me? Could you tell me the rough dimensions?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Uh a normal cojones is 47 centimeters, right? And the one that you have is like 53, I think. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_05 28:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Um and there is a difference because you know, the longer it is, the more vibrant it is, so you have to find a way to control better the snares inside it so they won't become not musical. Because if they're too loose, right, you get a sound that is not musical, at least to my taste. Right. So the the idea is also, you know, it's this the height of a chair. It should be comfortable to sit on when your knees are not too low or too high from the rest of your body. Right. See what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 29:17

Yeah, like you're sitting at a piano. I found them to be similar to that. Yeah. So let's talk about some of the fun other models. I mean, here I've been lucky to have a I think I'm saying this right, a kahonga, a kabonga, a kitak, a mash box. I do have uh what's the shaker one called? Clever Shaker. Clever Shaker, and then you just sent me a brand new one that I'm flipping out about. I think it's called the Zellbox, right? Yeah, the Zill Box. The Zill Box. No, so tell me a little bit about each of one of these that I've mentioned.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Okay, so you know, this is like a kitchen, actually. And it's a custom kitchen. This is what happens. Somebody comes and says, Look, I need I need a small one that can tie on it so I can dance with it. Yeah, and we come and say, Wow, that is like a good challenge. That is something that we I would like to try to do. Yeah, and this is how it starts. This is how things are get born here around here. Usually it's uh like a need from a player. This is how we did the ktak, because the ktak, for example, is the it's got one side with snare and one side without snare. Right. In the beginning, we we were approached by a very good percussionist here in the Galilee. He wanted a snare that would be very ethnic in nature. Yes. Something different from a drum kit snare that we all know. Right. And so we started to experiment it with size and woods and stuff like that. Eventually, we got to this small round drum, and we looked at it and we said, you know, it's not what he asked for, but it's really cool. What do we do with it? And then we said, Oh god, we need to put straps on it. Yeah, and then it happened. Yeah. And this is how this stuff uh works all the time, until today.

SPEAKER_05 31:12

And when I use that one, whether I use uh Kid Talk or a mashbox or the New Zealand, I love it because not only does it sound good, but you can flip it backwards and there's a different sound. It's often either snare and no snare or higher lower pitch.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Exactly. Exactly. Because the moment we understood that the thickness changes the pitch, then it's a whole new world of games to play.

SPEAKER_05 31:39

Right. And I also I was always playing it strapped around my chest so I could walk around or lead music groups, but I saw a video that you guys posted of someone had it on their lap and it was strapped around their legs, and I have done that now too. That's another fun way to play it.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

I yep, I I had people send uh videos to me playing it on the on the wheel of their car. So as long as you're safe, pull over first. As long as you're safe, go ahead, you know.

SPEAKER_05 32:13

Enjoy. I'm looking at your website. I love the beginning where it goes through a slideshow. I'm looking at the clever shaker. I want to know about that, how it's a shaker, but then why are those little dots, those little holes on the side?

SPEAKER_01 32:29

There is a concept that's uh first of all, it's something to do with the aesthetic. Because we tried it without. It doesn't sound the same.

SPEAKER_05 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

So I guess the movement of air from inside needs also to come out. Right. It's not a classical guitar. So it adds I'll tell you something something I I learned about aesthetics. Aesthetics is almost science. It has to be aesthetic and it it answers uh certain needs of people, and my own also. If you give me something that is supposed to be acoustically musical, right, and it doesn't answer a certain aesthetic need that I have, it I can't play it. Right. Absolutely. See what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

So part of the design is also to make it more in the family of acoustic instruments. Yes. And part of it is also to do with the design of sound. I hope I'm answering your question. I'm not sure, but this is why there is hardware.

SPEAKER_05 33:37

Well, I'm glad you brought up aesthetics too, because let's not forget that these are not only beautiful sounding drums, but beautiful looking drums. I mean, if you think about when Steve Jobs invented the Macs and the IMAX and all these things, it is important for aesthetics to have sleek beauty to them. They're not, you know, I've seen a lot of cajones that are just a box, and not only do they sound terrible, they just look awful. But every one of yours has a beautiful design, vibrant colors, and if I remember correctly, can somebody order a custom cajon and have their name or their logo put on it? Yeah, yeah, of course. Wow. Of course, we've done it in the past. Yeah. Send us a mail, that's all we need. Right. Okay, let's talk about the kabanga and the kahonga.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

So I actually it's again, it's going into the kitchen and saying, okay, let's do something new today. What are we gonna do? Oh, okay. So you know the Middle East has a lot of what we call darbuka. I don't know how you call it in no no, same thing over here in Dorabuka. Okay, so we we experimented with that and we got to the Kajonga and the Kabonga. The the difference is that the Kahonga is smaller, it's got the snail wire inside, so it's a very funky sound, very interesting drum, and the kabonga is bigger. That's more like uh an Afro-Cuban vibe.

SPEAKER_05 35:07

Right, and those, like the one that you guys sent me, I kind of hold it under my arm while I play it, like I might do a talking drum or a djembe or a darabuka, right? You hold it under your left or right arm and then you play it with the other one.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Yeah, or you hold it between your knees, right? A lot of people do it that way.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

Right. Yeah, yeah, and they're both very uh mobile drums that you can walk around with too. Yeah, or like I said, I've I've configured some of them into a drum set, so very versatile. Are there any other percussion items that I didn't mention that you guys make?

SPEAKER_01 35:46

We're more working on new shakers that might come in the future. But uh no, we we we we have a lot of stuff actually through the years.

SPEAKER_05 35:57

Yeah, I've been lucky enough to use them all. I I love every single product. Well, Shahar, a couple things before we go. Can you tell me about your custom basses? I know they're not can do, but I have a lot of friends that play bass, and these are equally beautiful and amazingly sounding basses.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Okay, so first of all, I play bass from the age of 15, I guess, something like that. And I started working with wood around the age of 22 when I didn't find anything interesting enough to you know study in university. And so I started working with wood, and at some point I decided, okay, I work with wood, I'm pretty good. I play bass. I should be able to build my own base. And yeah, I was working in a carpentry, and I asked the you know, the owner to give me a day off, and in that day I built a bass. Wow. And it was not comfortable, not beautiful, with a lot of mistakes. And that I understood, I understood, needs a completely different mindset because guitars, basses is something else. Right. And so it took me to a long, long, long journey of uh researching a lot of things until I came with my own models. I I don't know why, but I was always lucky because the moment I build a good bass, a few months later I started getting orders. It's all word-to-mouth kind of a thing. Yeah. And I use a lot of local words because I call it the green song concept. The idea is that you know, people hundred years ago, when they built a musical instrument, they used whatever they had. They didn't go to Amazon or eBay and ordered what they needed, right? Right. They had to to go into the forest and pick up the wood and dry it and cut it and play with it to see if it's good enough. Right. So I I do the same things with woods that grow here. So I work with olive and with cypress and with mulberry and a lot of almond, a lot of other stuff that are less common in the modern bass world, right. But are proven to be uh acoustically good for musical instruments. So I do that a lot.

SPEAKER_05 38:42

Since you've been making basses, has that influenced you with building your cajones and your percussion instruments? Are there any correlations between the two instruments beyond aesthetics? What about sonically?

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Well, the thing about kandu cajons, for example, is that our tops, the tapa, the part that you play is always glued. It's never with bolts. Yeah, I love that. Because from from what at least I proved to myself, what anybody can everybody can go home and try it if you have two different cajons, is that when it's glued, you don't lose energy. Ooh. And so the sound stays very focused because the bolts, there is gaps. Right. And so this is where we get that beautiful bass from our cajons, for example. So the way I build the basses is something that is called neck true, which has no bolts in it, also. Interesting. It's like that that's a concept that I like, that's uh sonically it proved itself. And so this is the way we do it.

SPEAKER_05 39:48

How do I pronounce the village you're in?

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Okay, so first of all, Ma'ale Tsvia. So it's it's uh called after Tsvia Lubetkin, if you're interested. She was in a ghetto of Warsaw, in the ghetto in Varsa, whilst there was the the Holocaust, and she was one of the warriors that actually survived that and managed to come to Israel after the war. Wow. And her her story is absolutely amazing, and so this place is named after her.

SPEAKER_05 40:22

That is really beautiful. And the reason why uh I bring it up because I saw this quote on your website that I really love because right now the world, I think we can agree there's a lot of opposing forces and terrible things going on. Let's say it's crazy more than the usual. More than the usual, and that's why I thought it was very hopeful what you wrote on your website. The Can Do Workshop is located in a tiny village in the Galilee of Israel, a region of breathtaking beauty where Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and Druze residents coexist in peace and mutual respect. You are warmly invited to visit. I love that because so many people are taking sides now, and it seems like you're doing the opposite. You are bringing people together with music.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

It's not only with music, it's with attitude. Yeah. Before the music comes the attitude and the concept of you know, you're a creature of God, you're here for a certain amount. Do your best, for God's sake. Who cares about politics? Yeah. And what is written there is actually the truth. Forget the news and forget CNN and BBC and Fox and all the rest of that stuff. Because life in Israel is not what you see in the news. I played for like the last 10 years in an ensemble with uh an Arab Christian from one of the villages here. We performed in all Israel. I have Druze friends and Muslim friends, and it's not what you see in the news, it's something else completely. And if you have it and if you own it, you meet the person and not the politics and not the identity of the crowd and all that stuff. You can actually sit with someone, and we don't have to agree about everything, but we can talk. Yeah, we can have coffee together, and definitely we can play music. And the moment you start playing music, it's magic.

SPEAKER_05 42:22

Yeah, I think I told you that way long ago I was a minister for about a decade. And one thing I'll never forget, I joined a group of people who what we would do is once a week, I was invited by my friend uh Rusty Olsen, who has now passed away. But we would take our group and go to like a Muslim center, and then a Jewish center, and then a church, and then a Hindu place. And what I learned right away, I mean, obviously it's common sense, but to see it with your own eyes, is that these people that gather, these spiritual communities, we all have more in common that we have different. And it's just another way to say what you just said. People are people, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Look, we're all born the same. Look, look at us. The design is the same. Yeah, I don't care if you're Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, whatever. You have five fingers, you have one head, two eyes. No, really look at it that that way. Yeah, this is this is a blueprint from God. This is how humans are born. Right. And from there, if you get recruited to politics or to terror or to extreme opinions or whatever, then you're missing the point. Right. And so I and my small little business is we're not located there, we're located where humans are supposed to be. Right. And I mean it, and this is the way it is.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

I myself barely escaped with my life from this fight underwater. A close call for me. This time I would have been done in except God shielded me.

SPEAKER_05 44:32

I always like to ask my guests to respond to a quote. So I'm gonna give you one of my favorites. This was from a spiritual writer from long ago. His name was Thomas Merton, and he once said, Happiness is not a matter of intensity, but of balance, order, rhythm, and harmony. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Oh, sounds amazing. Sounds amazing. Yeah, look, we have uh so many parts in our lives that move at the same time. From the heartbeat to the brain, to its different functions, to emotions, to you know, digesting of food and ideas and all of that together. That's what that's what we call the human complex. It's got different rhythms and uh one of the basic understandings is from from that quote is that they need to work in balance. If you take make decisions from your uh emotions, you miss the point. If you are not able to sit down and relax and enjoy the fact that you're able to breathe, and something gives a signal to your heart to continue to work no matter what, and when you wake up in the morning, you can open your eyes and connect back to where you were, like the whole system goes up again. You see what I mean? Yes, it's like the basic understanding, and he wrote it beautifully.

SPEAKER_05 46:03

Yes. You really put that well yourself, and you're making me think what I often tell my students when they're having anxiety or going through something difficult. I just say, Well, you know what? Why don't we sing? Because if you sing, you have to breathe. And then why don't we add a can-do to sit on and play some rhythm?

SPEAKER_01 46:26

That's great.

SPEAKER_05 46:28

It's a good workout, right? For your body and your soul and your mind. Yeah, all right. So, lastly, how can I help you, Shahar? What is your website? What social media are you on, and how can somebody order one of your instruments but also a custom one?

SPEAKER_01 46:49

All right, so we have a website, obviously, its instruments are there, all of them are handmade. And if anybody wants something very customized, which I'm happy to make, send us a mail. Very simple. We are very tentative, we answer quickly, and we will tell you if it's uh possible, like if we can do it or not. Right.

SPEAKER_05 47:12

And so they can go to the website which is canducoones.com and they can email you there.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Yeah, there is Instagram also. TikTok there isn't because I kind of got tired from too much social media, so I just try to avoid it as much as I can. The TikTok thing.

SPEAKER_05 47:28

Okay, so best ways to get in touch with you guys are the website or Instagram, and then within that send a message or email you, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:37

I'll answer, I always answer to everybody. And what about your bases? Do you have a website for that? Or what's the best way to check out your bases?

SPEAKER_01 47:45

I'm working on there. There is a website, it's it's out there, but it's not complete. But I decided to put it out there anyway. It's uh it's uh Bergman Bases, and a lot of my stuff is there. That would be amazing if somebody wants a base. Wow. I'll make some calls, we'll get the word out. I love yeah, I love making them stuff to that's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

Well, Shahar Bergman, it has been an honor to look at you face to face again and communicate. I would love to have you back on another time if you'd be willing.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Thank you, Malcolm. It was amazing to see you, to speak to you again after so many years. I haven't seen you. Last time I saw you, we did this little gig in the school. I remember that. And yeah, yeah, that was a good time to know. Thanks very much. Thank you, Malcolm.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Hello, my name is Jefferson De Leon, and I am a scientist in the biotech sector and a comedy musician, and I am a proud sponsor of the Creativity is the Cure podcast. Because creativity is central to who I am and what I do, check out my creations on my website, JeffersonDeleon.com. That is J-E-F-F-E-R-S-O-N-D-E-L-E-O-N-E.com.

SPEAKER_05 49:18

If I can go in every day and help 400 kids have a better life or be safe for eight hours, there's no more spirituality than that.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Yeah. Yeah. Because one of the things that is most important, and you have it, is we're here to give service. Yes. This is part of the godly design of the human, is to give service. And we are different from animals because the human is way, way, way more capable than the you know, the most clever dolphin or whatever you say. We're different. We're here to give service and to answer certain needs. Yeah. This is why we're here. So if you're sitting on your element, you are the best place that you can be. Right.