Creativity Is The Cure
In each episode, Malcolm Moore interviews fascinating people of diverse ages, cultures, spiritualities, and professions about how creativity influences their daily lives and work. Malcolm lives in California with his wife and cats. Episodes, in general, drop every Wednesday and Sunday.
Creativity Is The Cure
Simon Oslender: On A Roll
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
~ Simon Oslender is a jazz pianist, organist and keyboardist born in Aachen, Germany in 1998. He is a remarkably soulful player with a musical sensibility far beyond his years. Oslender, Steve Gadd, and Will Lee have a recently formed an elite cross-generational jazz-fusion and groove collective, collaborating closely on the acclaimed album [All That Matters] and the live release [On A Roll] alongside guitarist Bruno Müller. In this interview, he discusses how creativity affects his work and personal life.
*Special guest- Will Lee
**Interview includes Lullaby for Tom by Simon Oslender.
Recorded July 2026 on the phone between Cologne, Germany and Palmdale, California.
Please visit-
SimonOslender.com
CREATIVITY IS THE CURE is a podcast about how creativity influences people in their daily lives and work. In each episode, Malcolm Moore interviews fascinating people of diverse ages, cultures, spiritualities, and professions. For more info, go to www.creativityisthecure.org.
All right, we are back. This is Creativity is the Cure. I'm your host, Malcolm Moore, and today I have my new friend, Simon Oslander. How are you doing, Simon? Thank you so much for having me, Malcolm. Appreciate it. I'm good. How about you? I'm great. I am talking to you from the high desert in California, Palmdale, California. Where are you talking to us from today? I'm sitting here in my little studio in Cologne, Germany.
SPEAKER_02How's the weather out there today? It's pretty warm. This summer has been uh extremely hot uh most of the time, so it's not great when we're thinking about climate change, but for the moment it's quite enjoyable.
SPEAKER_04I've never been to Germany. Is it humid there? Is it dry? I grew up in Rochester, New York, so I'm used to humid, rainy weather, unlike where I live now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well well, the winters are mostly pretty humid and rainy. Yeah. The last couple of years were really dark and gray and rainy. So get a summer like this.
SPEAKER_04That's fun. That's why David Bowie uh came up with so many good albums that he recorded in Germany. That's right. All right, well, let's talk about how we met each other. We haven't met in person, but online we met through our good friends Steve Gadd and Will Lee. Yes, that's correct. And for everybody that doesn't know who Simon is, he's a German Hammond organ player, keyboard, and pianist of popular music like jazz, funk, blues, gospel, and pop. Here's a silly question, but I've got to ask you. What kind of coffee do you like? Because I know Will is into an espresso like I am, but also when I go to Starbucks, I have exactly the same thing as Steve Gadd, an iced Americano. What do you like? Oh, that's nice.
SPEAKER_02I would well, I'm I'd be fine with all of that. Um I uh I love Italian coffee, Italian espresso. I I was just in Italy a couple days ago for uh for a concert, and it's just uh it's a different game. It's I mean you of course you'll find good coffee in every city uh or every bigger city in Germany, but uh the standard in general is not nearly as as good as it is in in Italy, for example. So uh Italian espresso, I think, is would be my preference.
SPEAKER_04I've never been to Italy, but all my good friends that have been there say the same thing. They say because the water is so clean and tasty, and Tony Levin said by far espresso in Italy. There's no better way to go.
SPEAKER_02It's true, and it's it's literally when you as soon as you cross the border from from any other country, across the border, you can just take the first exit and just uh have an an espresso at the first gas station, and it's gonna blow your mind. I can't I can't wait to try that. One year old. It's it's wonderful, it really is.
SPEAKER_04All right, before we get deep into your music, if it's okay with you, I'd like to go way, way back in time to when you were a little boy, and I would like to know what is your first creative memory? It doesn't have to be piano or playing music. When is the first time that you had an idea in your head, executed it, brought it to the physical realm, and said, Whoa, where did that come from?
SPEAKER_02Very, very good question. Let me see. I think the first thing that I can really picture in in my head is uh a situation where I was visiting my dad during a sound check that he he did for a concert because he he plays the drums.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_02And he always had a couple bands that he would play with every once in a while. And I was I must have been around probably two years old, I think. And uh he would let me sit behind the the drum kit when sound check was over, and uh my legs couldn't reach the pedals, but I can still see that you know, see that view from behind the kit. And uh that was such a fascinating experience to me, and especially the sound of the bass drum, even though I couldn't really reach it, he would you know take me down from the yeah from the drum throne and and and let me play the the kick drum pedal. And that round, warm sound of the of the kick drum, that really inspired me to do something. And then what followed was that that I wanted a bass drum for Christmas and I wouldn't stop talking about it. You just want the bass drum. Yeah, exactly. I wasn't I was not yet interested in any of the other parts of the kit. But yeah, the bass drum was it. And um that's the first first time uh the first memory I have of actually making a sound with a musical instrument, and that was really addictive to me at it you know already at that point, and that's that's pretty much where where it started.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. That's interesting. I'm a drummer and I also do private drum lessons, and I love when I start teaching like a four or five-year-old, and the same thing, they can't reach the pedals, so we have to get them one of those really little tiny kits, but of course, you know, the hardware is mostly awful, and uh but they've got to do that for a few years until they can reach the pedals. And I also use Cajone a lot with kids, but I had the company can do that. I endorse make a kid's one because same thing, their feet can't reach the ground. That's right. Were your parents creative when you were growing up? And do you think their creative identity was passed on to you at all genetically? I think so, yes.
SPEAKER_02Uh my parents, there was always music around, whether they were just playing a record or or making music themselves. Uh, my mom played uh well, she still plays every once in a while, but she especially played in high in a high school band, uh played guitar and bass. And um my dad, as I said, is uh is a drummer and he plays a little bit of guitar as well, a little bit of keys, and he he's got great ears. You know, he can he can sing and play anything he he hears. So just a very very musical guy. And then my um my grandfather on my dad's side um was also extremely musical. He played accordion and he was in a in a choir and he was all he had the same ears pretty much, and he would improvise and and all of that. So I think there's there there's been quite some influence from the from the family, genetically, I I guess so. And uh yeah, my parents would always surround me with music. There was always music in the house. My mom would sing to me, dad would play the guitar. Yeah. So we we would all we would make music together a lot of the time. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah. Family dance. Uh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And we we we still play together every week. That's what's my next question.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, do you guys still get together and jam? What type of music do you like to play together?
SPEAKER_02Well, mostly the stuff that I grew up listening to that my my dad was always in love with, which is mostly blues music, yeah. Uh, but also, you know, a really really broad cross-section of the the best music of the last couple decades. He had always had a great collection, and uh I grew up with that. So from whether it be Beatles or uh jazz records from the 40s and 50s or uh Deep Purple or whatever, just you know, great stuff, all kinds of things. And so I grew up with a very broad, yeah, musical collection that was there.
SPEAKER_04Now I know you're a fan of Eric Clapton. What type of blues does your family like to play? From what era?
SPEAKER_02Well, my dad uh loves England and he he lived in England for a while, so what he had in his collection was mostly British blues at at that time when I was growing up, so it was a lot of Clapton. First record that made me fall in love with the Hammond organ was the John Mayle record. Ooh, wow, live live DvB, which also had Clapton as a special guest. That was beautiful. But then there were also BB King records from the 50s and 60s, and I mean that's just that's you know, doesn't get much better than that for me. Can't go wrong with that. It wouldn't tell a whole the story of a whole book with just one note, but yeah, unbelievable. So yeah, that would have been pretty much that.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's that's interesting because we'll get into this later, but one thing I love about your music is you leave so much space. I feel like a lot of your songs, especially the first two albums, you're not afraid to not play. You're gonna leave some space, and you can be subtle, but you can also play fancy stuff, but you really know how to read the room musically. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate it very much. The way I see it is always that playing together is always like a conversation, and it would be so annoying if one person would just keep talking all the time, you know? So I try to avoid that at at all costs. Very wise. Very wise.
SPEAKER_04I'm uh I'm a high school music teacher. One thing I always teach the kids is when someone's trying to figure out a song, don't make sure no one else is playing at the same time. Like people that fiddle around when we're trying to get the song ready. I was like, yeah, you're gonna get fired.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So here's a very serious question. Do you think creativity could be implemented in curing people or helping people with mental health struggles such as depression, anxiety? Any insight with yourself or with others?
SPEAKER_02Uh definitely. Absolutely. I I think it's uh yeah. I mean, Steve Gatt talks about it all the time. Music is is uh healing. And uh I I I see it the same way, and I also have a lot of experience with it myself because I have a lot of anxiety and um I struggle with with uh you know always you know never never thinking I'm good enough and and all of that stuff. And uh it's it's been getting better, but it's still you know, it's still a thing. And um music has always been there to help me, and it's it's really carried me through so many tough times and uh and so many problems uh that I had. It's it's unbelievable. So definitely, and I think it should be explored a lot more to to use music in in in that context.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'd like to go through your four albums. I've been listening to them a lot lately. I I'm very familiar with the ones with Steve and Will, but I'd like to go back and tell everybody that although you're doing this and touring that now, your first two albums are really amazing. The first thing I want to ask you is the sound quality of all four of your albums is very consistent and beautiful and lush. What do you attribute that to? Is that what you're looking for? Do you have a good producer? What helps make the sound so amazing?
SPEAKER_02It was it's always a uh a team effort. Definitely. On the first three albums, we we recorded them at uh Hanza House Studios that's in in Bonn, that's a city close to Cologne over here. And it that's a legendary studio that many, many great records made there. A lot of Maccio Parker records, a couple of Jill Zavano records, wow, and and a lot more. And it's a beautiful old school studio, great sounding rooms, and uh a beautiful SSL desk. And then what makes it sound uh great, uh what's the biggest factor is the guy that that's there that used to own the studio. Now he he sold it, but he still works there. Kalowski Inwit, he's the the engineer that recorded and mixed those uh three albums. Wow. The first three. And he is just a genius. He's uh I always kind of view him as the the German version of somebody like Al Schmidt. Yeah. As somebody who really really takes a lot of pride in capturing exactly, you know, the magical part of music making. And uh he always says he doesn't do anything, but uh that's you know I don't believe him. He knows exactly how to you know set up the mics and how to capture the make everybody sound the best they can. And um it's unbelievable. He's he's uh he's a treasure of a guy. And so the first three albums, that's definitely on him, the way that sounds. And it's a great vibe in that studio. We always feel at home there. A great, great uh grand piano that I really like. So that's it's wonderful. And then the fourth album is is a live record, and uh it was one of my first tries of actually mixing a record myself. In the end, I I'm happy how it turned out, but it took me a while to be two months to get it to a point where it sounded alright. But I I think it turned out okay. And uh since I'm um I love mixing and I love studio work, and and you know, I learned so much doing that. Um but then also we have a great crew on the road, great sound engineers, uh dear, dear friends of ours that you know have the same kind of approach, you know, to capture the music, so that really helps when you just open up your faders and the signals all sound good, and that's a that's a great start.
SPEAKER_04That helps, yeah, yeah. Do you want to name drop any of those guys in your crew that make your life easier? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yes, uh let me talk about all of them because they're they're heroes. Without them, we would be nowhere, you know. Yeah. Uh we have a our uh technical director, pretty much, and our from the house engineer is Dominic Arnold, dear friend of mine. I met him through uh working with Wolfgang Hoffner, the wonderful drummer. And uh Jochen Etze is our monitoring engineer. He always makes sure everything sounds it's it really sounds like a studio on stage because he's so so dedicated and uh really takes care of us there. Then we have a wonderful guy who takes care of the drums for Steve and and all the back line and the instruments. Uh Benji Yol is his name, Benjamin. And our tour manager, York Tuska, he's the greatest. He always has I don't know how he keeps all that stuff in his head at all times, but he he's really good. And then our uh our producer or my producer, Joachim Bekka, who also owns the label that we uh released the stuff on, he's always on tour with us. He's a wonderful human being and and a great supporter of all of this, and you know, he he really it's it's a wonderful c collaboration doing this stuff with him. He's unbelievable. And then one more guy who's is responsible for all the great video stuff that's that's coming out. Yeah, that's amazing work. Yeah. Yeah. People always ask me, is that like a do you have a camera crew on the road with you? No, it's just one guy. And it's uh it's a wonderful, wonderful human being. Uh I met him I think around two two or three years ago through uh Thomas Stiger, uh, who's the bass player in in Wolfgang Hoffner's trio, and we play together a lot, dear friend also. And um he recommended me this this guy, Claudius, and he um he's just he's a genius. Absolutely, and uh the way he captures the vibe of that band and and what's going on on stage, it's it's so much fun. So it's you know, I always have to pinch myself again to be surrounded by by such great uh people, you know, human beings, and also just such geniuses at what they do. It's that makes everything really, really easy. So I'm very grateful for all of them. Thanks, guys. If you if you listen to this, I love you all.
SPEAKER_04I thought I had seen all your stuff until this morning I woke up and on YouTube the video popped up between two plants, and it's that's hilarious. Uh and I see what you you say about him capturing the vibe because I know Steve, yeah, I know Steve really well, and I know Will pretty well, and you definitely got you got it down. There's like this moment you can't tell if they're serious or sarcastic, and I love that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's wonderful, it's hilarious with these guys. You can only I mean you can imagine how it how it is on the bus when we have a long drive. Yeah. The jokes that keep on coming from from the back seat. It's really it's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_04Wait, now you probably heard this on the Willie interview, but have you seen Steve juggle salt? That is one of his biggest dance. You gotta watch very closely, right?
SPEAKER_02Oh man, he he did that on the on our first tour, and we were just on the ground on the floor laughing.
SPEAKER_04His delivery is impeccable, yeah. Let's go to your first album. I was saying when I first called you this morning, lullaby for Tom. It's so spacious and beautiful, and I love that you're not only evoking moods, but you're taking your time, and it's just so emotional. I absolutely love it. And it's like I've listened to Steve Gad my whole life, and I've been lucky enough to watch him play up close. And of course, he can play rings around anybody if he wants to, but the thing that always gets the crowd is when he simplifies it, takes his time, and just it's like a vortex. He sucks everybody into it, and everybody just can't help but just start clapping and groove along with him. But I see this piece, lullaby for Tom, is just the same thing. It's to do something simple and pull it off and have the same strong emotions as a very powerful song while being subtle, I think is a challenging thing to do. Tell me a little bit about how you got that song together, where it came from.
SPEAKER_02First of all, thank you for for the kind words. Appreciate that. It originated, you know, Tom used to be my uh my my like a cuddly toy, a stuffed animal, uh whatever you would call it when I was a kid. Yeah. So uh that was kind of you know, I didn't have anyone else to write a lullaby for, so I I wrote it for for that little guy. So it was already kind of an emotional thing, and uh try to remember when and where I wrote that. How old were you? It's it i I it wasn't much it wasn't long before the first record was recorded, maybe 2018. Yeah. Might have written it, you know. I think that was during the time where I was still uh living in the Netherlands. I was uh I studied music there in in Rotterdam. Yeah and I think I wrote it just you know, some some songs just write themselves. Some uh some you have to work on for three months before they're ready, but um this one was just uh I think it was a one-take playthrough of an idea that I had in my head, and uh it was just it just came out. Some it's uh I got lucky, you know, uh that that happened. And um yeah, I didn't even think about it.
SPEAKER_04One of my favorite piano players is Mike Garson, who's most known for playing with David Bowie. And I got to meet him a couple times, and we got to discuss how he does live composing, which kind of blows my mind. And he's got one of those keyboards that writes it out while he's playing it. So do you do that sometimes? Do you just have an idea sit down and and it just appears out of a cloud sometimes?
SPEAKER_02Well, sometimes I might catch a lucky moment like that, but it's not you know, it doesn't happen too often. Every once in a while uh a tune comes out that that's like that. Yeah. And it's always it's a wonderful thing because it's just uh you get the feeling that you're just a really just a vessel for the music to come through. And that's that's it's an incredible experience, but you can't really force that. It might happen, you know, might happen twice in a week, it might happen just once a year, or you know, in five years or whatever. So it's it's it's really interesting.
SPEAKER_04What do you do if you're like in the car or taking a walk and you have a great idea for a song? Do you ever feel like me when that happens? I'm like, oh my god, I gotta get it down, I'm gonna forget it by the time I get home. What do you do? Do you do you do voice memos or yeah? Absolutely, always.
SPEAKER_02I think I have I I recently went through my my voice memos and I thought, oh man, I have to get rid of some of them or at least you know transfer them to my to my computer or something because it's such a mess. And then you listen to some and you remember that that you thought that idea was brilliant. Yeah, and it's so terrible.
SPEAKER_04I always say, I always say you gotta sleep on it. Sometimes you wake up and you're like, whoa, and sometimes you're like, oh, this is awful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's true. And then then sometimes also you when you don't have the chance to record something, but you have an idea that you think is good, and then then you lose it. I mean, that that happened to me a couple of times. I guess it happens to everybody, and uh, but I always think or if it's good enough, it's gonna show up again in some way. Yeah, and uh sometimes it has, sometimes it hasn't. I don't know, but it's uh I try to always capture everything.
SPEAKER_04I also like on the first album some of the covers. I love fragile and I love feel like making love. On Fragile, what is the instrumentation? There's a really beautiful I don't know if it's guitar. What is the instrument?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. So nylon, nylon swing guitar played by Peter Fessler, who's also singing on the guitar. Fantastic. He's he's a like a national treasure here in Germany. He's unbelievable. What a crazy musician, really. He's uh he's very special. And um, he just did a one-take of wow uh of guitar and guitar and vocals, and um I think then he then he did a an overdub with just some like vocal effects, this kind of wind sound that's just yeah. I love that. I was like, what is that?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a very spooky, haunting, magical part of the song. Yeah, it's almost like a bridge way before the bridge is supposed to happen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right, that's right. And then I just put a couple of little piano touches on it, and that's that's it, pretty much. As far as I remember, I think there's and that loop, you know, I I we had that loop uh before we recorded that. I had prepared that, so we played to that loop pretty much.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. One thing I really love about your playing and your music, I know you're a fan of Herbie Hancock. Listening to a lot of your stuff, it made me think of the song Maiden Voyage. I remember the first time I learned it in jazz bands. You can't really rely on this ongoing rhythm, it's like this sporadic, floating, you just kind of hit the head and there's nothing under there. And I've noticed that you're not afraid to do that. And when you added Steve and Will, there was more of that. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that is that is true. I mean, they have such a such an incredible uh rhythmic identity that's such a such a strong foundation to to build on. It's uh I I've never experienced anything that's easier than playing with these guys. It's unbelievable. They make it look easier than it is, right? Yeah, they really do. And it's uh it's crazy. It really carries you to musically to a point where you thought you would never be able to go.
SPEAKER_04And it's that's uh unbelievable, really. So let's move on to peace of mind, and that's when Will Lee joined you, correct? That's right. That's right. One thing I like is um on each song, are are you giving composition credit or saying who's playing when I listen to it on like Apple Music or Spotify, it'll have everybody's name on there. Do you guys collaborate with compositions or do you go into there with everything ready to go?
SPEAKER_02Uh for that album, I had everything ready to go beforehand, but we started writing together a little bit after that. Uh, I think none of the stuff has has been released, but there's still some uh cool things that we uh started writing together. So Will, if you hear this, let's work on it. No, but but for for peace of mind, I uh I had everything uh prepared. But because that was during uh COVID times, right? I had started writing some stuff and uh had been sending it to Wolfgang, and he would send me some some drum tracks back.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02And that was incredible. That that was so inspiring to work. And he he's he he was co-producer on that album, and he also helped me a lot with with arranging this the stuff. So uh he was very involved involved in that uh preparation. And um we had pretty much everything prepared, and I even had uh most of the the synth tracks and and additional keyboards and pads and all of that. I I just uh took all of that from the demos that I had and uh took it along to the studio so we could play along to what was already there.
SPEAKER_04Oh, so you've done that before. You've taken a demo and then everybody adds stuff after that.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And I was planning on on replacing all that stuff and and replaying it, but it ended up, you know, we we had all heard these demos for so many times that it it really yeah, I mean it's some people call it demo itis, you know, you get too used to it. But in that case, it really I tried re-recording some stuff and it it it kind of lost something. It lost some of the vibe that it had. So we ended up pretty much keeping almost everything from from the demos except for you know what what we were playing. So bass drums and and uh the main keyboards on on every song, so grand piano or whatever it would be. But the rest, the synthesizer stuff, additional keyboards and all of that, some of the percussion stuff we kept, uh we ended up keeping. And that was an an interesting process. But yeah, that because I had so much time during that COVID uh period, right? That was it turned into a very, very uh planned out album. It's like a very, very conceptual thing and and and not really not very open, not too much space for for uh crazy improvisation in the studio, which was very interesting, and it was it was a great experience at the time. But then for the next album with with Stephen Will, I wanted to have more space for that again, you know, for just uh musical interaction. And but I think you know, both is is fun and both can be really inspiring, and it's a it's a great balance to you know do one project like that, one project like that. It's it's interesting, keeps it fresh.
SPEAKER_04I love that you do that and bring in the demos in. And I you know, I'm 56, so I grew up in the 80s, and what you just described was very big back then, like Peter Gabriel. So you might have an album that has Menu Cachet and Jerry Murata playing together, or Stuart Copeland doing the hi-hat. That was a way to compose in the studio then. And I'm glad that you liked both, but your example made me think of I'm a big fan of Sting and the police, and I remember reading Sting came into the studio with every little thing she does is magic, and there was already a French piano player on there, I forget his name, but the police had to play to that, and as much as I love I love them playing live in a room, I also like how they did that. I thought it was a magical vibe, and if they hadn't brought in Sting's demo, it wouldn't have been the same. And then when they play live, it's different. So it's good to have both, right? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Matter of fact, I I talked to uh Manu a couple of days ago because we we played a show together in Italy and we Oh my god, you gotta tell me more. I'm such a fan. I'm sorry to interrupt. He is he is unbelievable. It was the first time I I met him, and we're gonna play a lot together this this year, um, with a wonderful uh Danish bass player, Chris Mendoki, and his band. And uh man, it was such a wonderful, such a big pleasure to meet Manu. Also, I mean, of course, I've been a fan for such a long time, but he's also just the greatest guy. He's so wonderful. And uh and we were talking about that, or he he told us the story about you know the three-drummer thing on the Peter Peter Gabriel record. And yeah, it that was interesting. I I didn't know about that before.
SPEAKER_04So that's and then if you I can't remember what album it is, but there's a sting album where he brought in Vinnie Coleuta and Manu, and he would just be raising the faders in different parts and whose ever track worked, right? Yeah, I heard of that. I heard of that. That is crazy. So on your second album, I want to compare two tracks. I love Fall of Hope and First Dance. Fall of Hope is very haunting to me, but first dance is very buoyant and really lifted my spirits. Very joyful. I love that you have you run the whole gamut of emotions on your albums. How important is that to you to have a variety of grooves and emotions and things like that in one album?
SPEAKER_02Very important, absolutely, because I I see it as or at least I'm trying to to uh to create a journey for whoever's listening. And uh if every song would just be a happy upbeat groovy thing, it would it would really get boring after a while. So I I'm not great at at composing you know sad music or you know stuff with that's that's maybe associated with a little more negative emotions. That that's always been kind of hard for me. I I find it really uh much easier to to write you know joyful melodies and and stuff like that. But it's just necessary to have a little bit of contrast and and and different colors on on a record. Especially during that time with COVID and everything going on. Definitely made it a little easier to write some melancholy stuff or something. But if if I write something that's a little more a little darker, maybe I think there's always it always ends up having a little bit of a like a silver lining somewhere. You know, a little bit of hope still remain in there. And that's uh also what uh what I think uh uh happened with uh with Fall of Hope. Yeah. I haven't heard that in a while, but I think there it's a very dark vibe, and then that bridge happens once or twice where it sort of opens up and goes into a more into a brighter, you know, almost like the sun, you know, shows up for for a couple seconds and then goes back down to the cloudy, cloudy winter woods of Germany.
SPEAKER_04Wait, that sounds like where Steve Gadd and I grew up, Rochester, New York. That's like the weather almost every day. It's like almost like a London fog, right?
SPEAKER_02Oh man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Let's go on to all that matters when you bring Steve and Will in. When you first met these guys and you ended up planning this album, was there anything different you wanted to accomplish compared to your first two albums? Did you want to go somewhere different?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I wanted to focus a little bit more on uh just getting to this into this uh studio and just just playing and just playing live. Playing live, not too many overdubs. You know, I I had done that on the peace of mind album that was you know a lot of overdubs, a lot of additional tracks and and horns and synths everywhere. And that was a lot of fun, but I just wanted something, you know, keep it simple. The only overdubs that are on the record are just you know some percussion, and I might have put maybe a synth pad here or there, but it's it's very uh it's not a lot. Most of the stuff that you hear is is uh was played like that in the studio. And um yeah, I want to just especially with a with a band like that, you know, I've had incredible musicians on all of the albums, but uh especially with a with such a such a special combination with Stephen Will and also with Bruno on guitar, I just wanted them to play, you know. I I didn't want anybody to feel limited by by having you know tracks pre-produced or anything like that. I just wanted to, you know, whatever happens, happens, and wanted to have the you know uh provide the space for the music to actually really go somewhere. And uh and that that plan worked, man. It was it was unbelievable. I uh the music kind of wrote itself once I knew who was gonna play on on the date, I I I knew what it was gonna sound like in some way. I you know, I I I can imagine it very, very clearly, but still uh until the moment that we actually started playing in the studio, I was so unsure of you know, have I written the the right kind of stuff? Is this no pressure? Are they gonna like the music? Are they gonna you know feel comfortable with that music? Is it you know, is it cool? Is it too much, you know, is it too similar to you know stuff or the gadgang or or whatever? Because it's very inspired by that, obviously.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I think it's yeah, I I was lucky to kind of maybe hit the right balance between being inspired by that and also adding some some new stuff. And it man, it just from the first take that we did, it we were flying.
SPEAKER_04I see a lot of laughing in the studio. You guys look like you're having a good time. Yeah, absolutely, such a good time. Who played percussion on that album? Was it Steve? It was me, actually. Really? Oh, I forgot you're a drummer, and actually wanted to bring up how is it to be in a band with three drummers? I know your secrets. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_02It's fun, yeah. Well, at least, you know, you already know everybody's got good time. Yeah, that's kind of important, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Do you guys ever switch? Do you ever let do you ever sit on the drums or let Will sit on the drums?
SPEAKER_02We haven't really. I maybe at a at a sound check. Yeah. I think I I I did sit behind Steve's drums after he was uh after he had left the studio. Yeah, because I just wanted to feel how he sets up stuff. And it's incredible. Will also did that once, and and he also he he agreed that everything is just you know it's in the perfect place. Everything is just so ergonomical, right? It's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, so far, maybe maybe we should do uh some instrument switching on stage, that would be fun. I know that the the talking heads did that on a song, I can't remember which one it was, but it doesn't matter your level or experience, it often brings out something different. So even if you you know try to compose a song with people outside their comfort zone and then you switch back, you never know what you're gonna get.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, yeah. Especially composing. I I I love to compose or at least compose melodies on guitar, for example. I'm really not a guitar player at all, but I can play a couple chords and and that, but not much more. But it's it's so inspiring to be limited sometimes, it's so great. And I I really uh yeah, I I think I have some some of the better ideas on on guitar or bass, uh the instruments that I don't really play. So that's uh makes it really interesting.
SPEAKER_04I think that's very important. I always tell my students that I'll never forget. My favorite drummer growing up was Bill Bruford, who even if you know who he is, most people don't know he's a jazz, great jazz drummer. In fact, he's back to playing jazz now. And I remember so in the late 80s was the advent of bringing melody back to drums. Uh yeah, I know that it originally people like Max Roach inspired Bill, but what Bill was doing on the Simmons drums, he was programming chords. So when he had his band Earthworks, a lot of times he was playing the chord changes while everybody soloed, or he could play the melody. Oh, and for me, composing in that way, of course it's gonna be different than keyboards or guitar. It's gonna be so awkward and abstract, but you come up with things you never would have, right? Absolutely, totally. It's it's inspiring. Yeah. I love quite logical on all that matters. Okay, and it's it's such an unorthodox groove. I'm like, is it a funk groove or is it a march? You know, it's just like hovering somewhere in between there in these huge gaps that only Steve can do. And then the way because Will and Steve have played so long together, I was thinking in the car when I was surrounded by the sound, Will's bass and Steve's kick drum is just one thing. It's like a kick drum that has a pitch on it. They're so close and so in the pocket, it's almost like a rap thing when you pull up to a corner and someone's like their whole car is shaking from the bass. I I feel like that with Steve and Will. Yes. Absolutely. I feel the same way.
SPEAKER_02It's it's scary sometimes. Yeah, I really have to say. When I was uh working on on the stuff and and and doing the overdubs here, I had you know all the I had the multi-tracks, and then I I would just listen to to drums and bass for hours because I I just couldn't believe it. It's yeah, it's so magical. And Will always says, you know, there's a lot of good drummers, but Steve Gadd always lands where you want him to land. Whatever happens, he's always right there with you where where you want it, and that's yeah, it is that way. It's that's really it's it's unbelievable. Yeah, there's nobody like Steve.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, and that that's a big part of it. I also love Donkey. What a weird song. It's got like I know it's gonna sound crazy, but like the bass line, it's like Will is like a spy creeping around the corner. Yes, the yes, the song is so swampy. I was like, what word can describe this? And uh the wah guitar solo. It's like everything's underwater, it's like the creature from the black lagoon. I love, love, love this song.
SPEAKER_02Creeping around. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04How did that how did that change from when you wrote it to when these guys played? Was it vastly different?
SPEAKER_02It sort of got a different drive, especially in the in the solo section, because that was also a little bit of a of a you know, I was hoping for that when I was when I proposed it, that Steve would go into that into that, you know, slow blues riot group. Yeah. Uh with a hiat, you know, uh I I think he does kind of like a almost like a Grady Tate thing. I'm not sure if I remember it correctly, but like the Hyatt on the on the third triplet.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That wonderful oh man. And that's the kind of group I heard him play so many times with Clapton on all these records and and and live recordings. And I was kind of hoping for you know something like that to happen, and it it did. And when we were doing that in the studio, I just I freaked out. It was so it felt so good.
SPEAKER_04I don't think a lot of people are comfortable playing that slowly, but also right in the pocket. I mean, it was just like you said, it's magical.
SPEAKER_02It really is, it really is. And it's it's always uh it's it's it's always the right feel. It's unbelievable how he does that. Whatever he plays, it always feels good, it never feels rushed or you know, it never drags nothing. He's it was funny because we we did a lot of that stuff, actually, most of the songs with. with the click track uh because Steve preferred that in the studio. And um it was so interesting. Sometimes I would look at my little monitoring uh desk there and try to turn up the click because I thought it was gone. Yeah. But it was just it it would disappear because Steve was so on it but he made it feel so good regardless. Some some drummers when as soon as they play to a click it the vibe is gone. The grooves just start to starts to fade. But he he made it sound like the clique was listening to him.
SPEAKER_04And that was an unbelievable well and the ironic thing is when I talked to Tony Levin we were talking about how Steve and Tony were playing before there were click tracks. And you go back and hear that stuff it still sounds as solid and as good as it is now and you're right I I often tell my students if you're playing the drums to a click track you shouldn't be able to hear the click because you're right on the money. Right. Yeah right let's move ahead to your live album on a roll oh and actually before we move there there's all that matters there's two versions right is there like a deluxe version of all that matters there's some extra tracks is that what's on there I think there is uh uh one or two I think there's just one no two bonus tracks that's that's correct yes I think that was released a a couple months uh months later yeah yeah yeah so everybody should check that out so on a roll live I think my favorite track these days lately is cruising it's very off kilter right it's a brilliant like lilting shuffle and it's kind of like a strut I was listening to it with one of my my cats was walking by and she walks kind of like a cat walk you know like a fashion show and I was like this fits perfectly to this song I just I see or I I feel someone strutting yes absolutely absolutely from what I read you've been a child prodigy you played from a very early age and I'm guessing some things came easy to you my question is have you ever tried to teach someone piano because when I started teaching you know my friend Sarah who really influenced me a lot she was sick and she let me get up and teach and I was like this is hard and she said yeah it's one thing to know something but to figure out how to break it down and teach someone else is a real challenge. So have you ever had that experience and what was it like for you?
SPEAKER_02Well I haven't taught that much um I I think I can count the a couple times on on one hand uh and it's always been private lessons um with people that were already a little more advanced but I still found it so so hard and uh I was really anxious to always really anxious to to try to teach somebody because I from you know from from my what I feel I'm not even close to a level where I you know would be suited to to teach somebody or you know I feel like it's I'm I'm not at a point where I I'm ready to to tell anyone what to do or even you know inspire anyone what to do. I I really have a lot of respect for for music teachers and teachers in general.
SPEAKER_04My girlfriend is a is a music teacher in high school for example and so that's that's really uh interesting to hear uh see you know hear about her view of the whole thing and uh I have so much respect it's unbelievable and I I hope I get to the point where I feel comfortable teaching but I'm I'm definitely not there yet so that's that's why I don't really do it at the moment but who knows you know yeah time will tell I think you you'll find out a lot more about yourself and playing a lot of times I might play a show and something really cool comes out of nowhere and then I want to show it to a student and I go I don't even know how to count this I don't know what I'm doing and I have to like video it and watch it. You know and I'm sure you playing with Steve and Will and all the other guys there's probably stuff that happens and you listen back and you're like where did that come from?
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah absolutely and that's that's the other thing it's so hard for me to put music into words it's it's really a a big challenge. Yeah and uh I've I struggled so much the few times that I I tried to teach somebody I really struggled with that. And uh I I I mean I did have a lot of theory lessons when I was studying and and stuff like that but I I don't think about that very much when I'm when I'm making music. You know it's it's it's good to have some knowledge but I you know I forgot a lot of a lot of that stuff already.
SPEAKER_04That's what you're supposed to do.
SPEAKER_02You're supposed to learn it all and throw it away and be in the moment right absolutely yeah I I have one teacher that said a great great thing he said uh music theory is just there to to uh you know help you understand it's never there to tell you what to do and I I I really agree I love that you know it's great to have the knowledge and to be able to understand everything but it's it shouldn't be the you know it shouldn't be the the motivation to do something. Exactly tell me about Pimpy Panda what is that ah that was the band man you you were digging deep I don't mess around man yeah yeah yeah that's great that was a really fun band um that I was in for a couple years I think we started started in 2015 it was right before I finished high school and um the bass player in that band he was the band leader he put that thing together he was uh one of my closest friends at that time and um yeah he uh he asked me if I wanted to be part of that and that was sort of the time when bands like Snarky Puppy were uh or Wolfpack were were really popular I mean still are absolutely and rightfully so but that was when that that kind of thing came up yeah or became very popular especially here in Europe and um yeah that that band was kind of you know musically it went into that direction a little bit maybe a little more gospel and soul oriented because we always had singers changing singers on on that in that band and it was a lot of fun but looking back there was also a lot of notes flying around yes I remember that era yes absolutely and I mean I was I was uh seventeen yeah or sixteen seventeen and I was just having the time of my life though those were some of my first touring experiences and uh we were like a family that band was it was a a really close family and it was a lot of fun. I learned so much on that gig and uh yeah just a great time and then I think we played our our last show shortly before COVID hit and then um it kind of yeah we c everybody went went their own way and you know some of the guys uh had kids and we we don't live that close close by anymore you know everybody sort of spread all over the country and so uh yeah that Ben hasn't hasn't really done anything in in a long time but man if we if we were ever to do a reunion or something like that I think it would be fun.
SPEAKER_04You never know you never know never know never know that's right I saw you recently in an interview and you're talking about how some of your music is based on what you learn from classical music and it made me think of two artists I really admire Dan Reynolds from Imagine Dragons and Billy Joel. Both of those guys often talk about how a lot of pop music is based on blues changes RB gospel but these two guys grew up playing classicals so that led them in different directions compositionally and tell everybody a little bit about how what that means to you well it's so interesting because uh when you look at you know a Bach piece take take any any bock piece for example there is so much to so many parallels to to that's happening now it's unbelievable I mean if you want to learn about Bebop you better start with with Mr.
SPEAKER_02Bach. And and then sometimes you find moments in the in the Chopin piece or Debussy or whatever that that make you think okay that that sounds like it was recorded sometime in the in the 1950s you know hear these these incredible harmonic things happening that that really are so close to what we would call something jazzy or you know it's it's so interesting and it's there's so much to be to be learned about about harmony and voice leading especially for me that's that's a big big thing. Arrangement use of of colors and and so yeah everything inspires everything really for me and uh classical music especially classical piano music is a is a big I'm not a great classical piano player at all and I really admire people who can who can do that and and the discipline that's needed for that it's unbelievable. Yeah and I'm a big fan of of so many great piano players but it's it's not really for me you know I I love listening to it and I love diving deep into the music and and and trying to understand it and learn what I can from it but I'm not gonna be the guy who's gonna play any classical piece in public.
SPEAKER_04I have done that and failed miserably I heard the story where you you went out on stage and you blanked out I've had that happen that's terrifying right yes yeah and that's uh that's the moment when it was uh when that decision was made yeah well I think some people are more comfortable playing classical music or things that are written out and some people are more comfortable with improvising I'm a big fan of Genesis and I remember when Bill Bruford was playing with the band it ultimately didn't work out because Bill played differently every night and Phil likes things to be exactly the same and I said to myself I'm not taking sides I like both I remember being shocked the first time I saw Sting live because every song he did was completely rearranged yes everything even the melodies were different and I was like I was young I was like wait what and now I like that I like when I when I really dig an album and go see it live and then play it differently I think that's fun but it drives my wife crazy yeah I understand both sides I I actually saw Sting live uh two days ago yeah here in uh in Belgium and I was talking to to Chris uh Chris Moss the the incredible drummer that's that's touring with him at the moment oh yeah I've read about him I haven't heard him he's fantastic you should check him out really just Dominic and Dominic and Sting and and Chris yeah and he we were also talking about that and it was so interesting and you know they they try something different every night and uh it's almost sometimes like a like a jazz approach here and there and it's it's it's so fun it's great.
SPEAKER_02You know you have tunes that are songs that have to be exactly what they are.
SPEAKER_04You know it's an interesting uh interesting combination yeah I think it helps when you're someone like Sting and you're on the road all the time you could probably get bored oh yeah doing everything the same way so it's a good way to keep your mind sharp probably challenge you and I've got to put this out there the more I listen to your music you got to play keys for Sting you'd be perfect.
SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness there's a long line of great piano players like Kenny Kirkland but I think you would be something really fresh yeah let's put it out in the universe very kind of you that would be if if that ever happens uh you know even if I get to play one chord with Sting or one note I will retire right afterwards.
SPEAKER_04That's like a John Cage thing. Oh that was so me all right I always like to end with people reacting to quotes and I know you're a fan of George Duke. I mostly only do one quote but both of these are so good I'd like you to respond to both of them. So here's the first one first one's a little lengthy artists whether they're classical musicians or pop musicians they have always been the reflection of society and in many ways a healthy part of whatever is wrong in society and I think it's important for us to continue to do that and I don't see enough of it today.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah not much to say about that one I just agree yeah from front to from front to back that's start to finish that's that's yeah yeah that's the truth yeah we we really need that today.
SPEAKER_04The other one he said is I work with many jazz artists such as Miles Davis. One of the things all these artists had in common is that they had no fear. Oh yeah what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_02Well I think it's just uh you need to just go for it. Yeah and uh I I keep you know that's that's a lifelong challenge because you know all of us we have all our so many things going on everybody has their their anxieties and everything but you know when you're creating there's just there's no right or wrong just go for whatever you're feeling in that moment and um don't hold back. I think that's yeah at least try to do that. You know that's that's what I try and I I I'm still learning so much especially from from guys like Steven Will. And they're the best example. You know there's if if they if they say yes to a project or whatever if if they do something they they do it 100%.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Full dedication no fear just go for it and and you know dedicate all of your energy and really focus on just you know in this case making them making the music speak and and that's yeah uh that's what we all try to do and and one night it might might work out better than the other but uh that's a great quote oh man getting to work with Simon has been such a pleasure uh not only is he a super wise for his age great grooving talented writing musician he's just a great guy and it's really fun to hang out with him and we have a wonderful time on the road and we have a great time in the studio and I'll never forget the first time I heard him and and met him he was just so nice and and then he starts to play and and and I just about drop my instrument in the studio because it was so great. Every time we get together we have an amazing experience and uh everybody in Germany and a lot of the European countries know about Simon but I'm really happy to find out you know every every day new people in America are discovering him and falling in love with his music and uh actually replicating his music, starting to copy it and starting to put it in as part of their set lists and stuff. Covering his tunes the stuff that we did with uh with him, Steve Gadd, myself and Bruno Muller in the studio uh is starting to catch on. And I think his father is an incredible musician. So I believe that when Simon was being raised he was hearing all the stuff that was coming out literally stuff the band stuff and just stuff that was coming out of America and uh embracing it all and and just internalizing it and now he kinda owns it. I mean not kinda owns it he's kind of a master he's he's a true master. One of the most fun moments of our set is when he goes into a Richard T style breakdown on piano and Gad gives me that look and we both know what that look is about. It's like yes we've been there and that is just incredible to hear this guy playing the Richard T style stuff. Get a kick out of that. Anyway I'm always looking forward to the next uh hang with Simon and the next time playing and we keep trying to plan everything we can to fit to squeeze ourselves together into a into a time slot where everybody's available. And we do have another tour coming up and we're planning ones beyond that in other parts of the world and so it's really exciting to to look forward to that and uh I love Simon he's he's he's my bro and he's he's my Freund and uh great to be able to talk about Simon it's he's just a total pleasure so how can people follow you and find out what you're up to I see you have a website.
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm that's correct that's probably a good hub and then what social media are you on?
SPEAKER_02Uh I'm on Instagram and Facebook I'm not on TikTok I haven't uh haven't dared to do that yet I I might I don't know I I'll think about it but uh I also think that TikTok might not be the right audience maybe for the music that I'm doing. Who knows? And then one more little thing that I just uh tried or just started is a little online shop where I'm selling uh some of my sheet music to a lot of I saw that on your website yeah gonna be there in a few days and uh yeah um let's see how that works out but uh if anybody wants to check that out feel free to do that I'm always gonna you know expand the collection yeah and add some more over time yeah yeah I think that's great and what's coming up next are you gonna work more with Steve and Will or are you doing something different?
SPEAKER_04What's on the horizon? Um this week I think on Wednesday actually I'm uh I'm doing another gig with with Manu and and that band with the uh Chris Mindoki's band and uh what's the band called it's uh Chris Mindoki and the nomads wow I gotta check that out my respect there and that's a that's a really fun project I hope we uh we actually get to record something it's it's a pretty new band we just had our first gig last week in Italy and uh yeah it's it's a lot of fun man I think uh I think a lot of people don't know that Manu is also a great jazz player and if I remember correctly back to the whole classical music orchestral I read that he grew up playing orchestral music and when I listen to him play I hear that from being a drummer myself and playing in an orchestra whether he's playing with Robbie Robertson or Peter Gabriel whoever that that really comes out would you agree?
SPEAKER_02Yes absolutely it's a it's a completely different approach to pretty much all drummers that I've played with uh up until now and it's really inspiring he's got such I mean of course he got amazing pocket amazing sound everything but there's uh a really some some very special kind of openness to to what he does a lot of space it's hard to describe yeah a lot of space and and a lot of great ideas flying around and and really responsive and just unbelievable it was so much fun to play with him and uh yeah so there's a uh a wonderful thing that's gonna happen on the second week of weekend of August Wolfgang Hoffner the the drummer that uh talked about already yeah he's great he's he's from uh Nuremberg Germany a town in in the south of Germany and he always does a a huge open air concert every every two years I think every second year and um it's an incredible event he always has wonderful guest artists and there's a a big band that he handpicks from all the German uh radio big bands and all of that so it's a it's a really big uh wonderful you know meeting of so many great people and and great musicians and because it's an an open air thing in his hometown sometimes if the weather allows for it as many people as 60 70 thousand will show up so it's it's an incredible beautiful thing. Good God and yeah and you know we play funk and jazz and big band music for that kind of audience that's a really rare thing and I think it's the it's actually the the biggest jazz open air event in in Europe as far as I know. And he's the the musical director you know he he uh he announces everything he's like the the yeah the leader of the whole thing and it's it's wonderful to be a be a part of that. So that's coming up as well.
SPEAKER_04I'm really looking forward to that sounds like the jazz version of Glastonbury. That sounds really exciting. That's right that's yeah that's kind of what it is yeah absolutely well listen Simon I really need you to get Steve and Will in the band and come play the West Coast. So make some calls. I would love to if you come play out here I will bring the espresso oh man that's that's enough of a reason to do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah man we we tried already to to to make something happen in the States but the because Bruno and I are German citizens we only have a German passport it's so hard to get a uh an artist visa it's it's devastating we wouldn't love to do that but it's it's very very expensive and it's it's gotten worse over the last couple years. And um no comment yeah yeah exactly and uh you'll need a a lawyer from the states oh my god to take care of that and it it can cost so much money and then you still don't know whether you're gonna get it so we would love to make it happen but it's with the situation the way it is right now it's it's it's hard. Very challenging. Yeah you know if uh anyone still wants to make it happen you know we we would love to but it's uh it's it's crazy.
SPEAKER_04I was gonna say if there is anybody financially abundant out there listening we gotta get Simon out to LA and we need the right band too I'm gonna make some calls.
SPEAKER_02Hit us up that sounds good man it would be fantastic it would be so great.
SPEAKER_04All right Simon it was an honor talking to you thank you so much and I didn't even get through all my questions so maybe could we do this again in the future?
SPEAKER_02Please absolutely what a pleasure man thank you so much wonderful to meet you likewise and uh please keep up the good work and thanks for your great podcast man I really enjoy listening to it. That's fantastic. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Hello my name is Jefferson DeLeon and I am a scientist in the biotech sector and a comedy musician and I am a proud sponsor of the Creativity is the cure podcast because creativity is central to who I am and what I do. Check out my creations on my website JeffersonDeleon.com that is J E F F E R S O N D E L E O N E dot com.
