Managerial Musical Chairs

After 3 league wins in a row, Liverpool will almost certainly qualify for the Champions League next season. Which means we can start to look to the future, beginning with Arne Slot. 

Lost in the discussion around the manager's future is the reality that a ton of jobs are opening up this summer, not only in the Premier League, but potentially across Europe, depending on how things shake out. 

But first things first: does Slot deserve to keep his job? And if FSG decide to move on, who should they target, and how do they ensure they are not left standing when the music stops?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're listening to America's Anfield, the Liverpool FC podcast brought to you by American Brothers Matt and Johnny. From the heart of the U.S. to the Cop, we're talking all things reds every week. Welcome back, everyone, to another riveting episode of America's Anfield. Johnny here with Matt. We are ready to rock as promised. Coming off of a really weird 3-1 victory at home against Crystal Palace, where we thought we were going to our fourth string keeper. It's good times. Looked a little ominous there. And then I don't know if you caught it today, but we were playing baseball uh in the Champions League. It was it was five to four. What a game. What a game. They were just back and forth. I'm gonna be honest. There were some moments where I was like, remember that time where we already had Lucho and then we almost bought Cavar Decelya on that same side. Right. Nailed that name, by the way. And then we don't have either one now. Well then he's like, I don't want to go there in the summer. I don't know if I'm ready for a move. Oh, wait, I'll go to PSG in the winter. Well, what a turd.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, but they might win back-to-back champions league. So I think he made the right call.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Good for him. Good for him. Um yeah, so uh we got a lot to discuss, a lot to cover. How are you doing out there? How are you doing out there, Maddie?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yeah, you know, I I think we're ready to have a conversation. We've been kind of holding off on for a while because look, we know now kind of where the season's gonna end. We're gonna finish in the top five. We're gonna win a grand total of zero trophies. And the good news is that we're gonna have Champions League football. Like it would have been a disaster if we had fallen into the Europa League. That is going to be, you know, reserved for Chelsea or uh Brighton or someone like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Can we insert a ch-ching there in post, you know, just where we're Champions League cha-ching, you know, just a little cash.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

I thought you just refunded Chelsea, which I'm also all for.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

I mean, that that would be like a wah wob wam wah.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Yeah, and and but here but honestly, bringing up Chelsea is a really good kind of context for this conversation because we're gonna talk about Arnie Slot, and the season has been really bad compared to our expectations. But I think part of what makes it look better is it's like, well, it's not as bad as you know, insert this team. And there have been so many teams below us that have just been frankly inept, where we probably should be fighting for our lives to make the top five, but because so many teams are so bad, looking at you, Newcastle, looking at you, Chelsea, right? We're gonna end, you know, up comfortably in maybe even third, depending on how Sunday at Manu goes. Not optimistic, by the way, about that game. That's fair. That's fair. Uh so yeah, you know, I'm I'm doing good. It's been a long time since we podcasted. Um, less is more, guys. Less is more. Uh, but kind of now that we know where everything's gonna fall, and now that we've had some news like Robo's leaving, Sala's leaving, etc. etc., like I think we can have this conversation in earnest. And for those who are watching on Spotify, Johnny is drinking a legitimate alcoholic beverage. It's just classy, man. You don't put ice in your bourbon ever, do you?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

I don't. I don't baptize the bourbon. I like to I like it straight. Like it's straight.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

What do we mean like what do you have a problem with chilled beverages? Is it like just you need it room temp?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

I well, so here's my thing. It's it's a little nerdy, just roll with me. I've been getting into cask strength things or barrel strength because it sort of has a life of its own. It's not sort of brought down to the standard you know, 80-proof, 40%. And what's nice about room temp, not adding water or ice, is it opens up and kind of changes as you drink it, as it gets a little layer in there. But I feel like if you if you add a little water or ice, kind of changes for the negative, not the positive.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Not an enhancer.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

So, okay, I mean, like, so I brought it up because I I have somebody in our uh my extended family who likes room temperature water, which I find to be nasty.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Oh, well. Uh I think it needs ice. Is it filtered?

SPEAKER_02 4:49

I think it's filtered, but like it's just room temp.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Okay, I mean, yeah, I mean, I I do love some ice. I'm out there. Listen, we're America. America's in field. We love ice. Give us all this.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

100%. Yeah. So all right. Um, let's dive in, okay, because the topic is interesting. Not just what does Liverpool do with Arnie Slot, but there's a bigger context, a bigger framework to kind of talk within. Because I don't know if people realize this. There are, dude, there are so many open positions and or positions that might come open, especially if we kind of just go conspiracy theory and put on our tinfoil hat here. Like it could get really interesting. There could be a massive game of musical chairs. And I think that's important to tee up because I think any conversation ever, we've talked about this with a coach. A part of the equation is like, well, who else is out there? Right? Like, we're not gonna sack somebody, doesn't matter who it is, we know what sport you're in, if you don't have a better alternative to bring in. You know, if Jurgen Klopp never left Dortmund, who knows what would have happened with Brendan Rogers. I mean, eventually, sure, he would have gotten sacked. But I'm just saying, like, who knows, right? But he Klopp was the obvious better upgrade at the time. So maybe we start um with how we both feel about slot. Because I don't I I think we if you've listened to the podcast regularly, you probably aren't gonna be surprised where we land, but I do want to give it a fair conversation. So do you wanna start?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Sure. So I feel like there's a handful of ways to think about this. But I will I will start this way and we'll meander that way together. I feel as though it is an interesting conversation because if he's given the seal of approval in the summer, I'll be really interested to see who who moves on or if anyone else moves on that that hasn't been talked about, like Allison being one of them. Uh I think the concerns that I have are one, just at a very broad high level, it feels as though he's uh lost the fan base. Like that's not in a good place, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Yeah, and that it's tough to know, but like, you know, you had was it the city game where a bunch of people leave early and that looked really bad. You know, Twitter is really hard to know. Like, are these people bots real? Like, who knows, right? But but I mean, like, yeah, it's it's tough to gauge, but it feels like it's trending towards some apathy.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Well, and it it it's not just him, it's also FSG, to be fair. Uh, but there's lots of handouts and flyers I saw at this most recent game against Crystal Palace of you know, the the soul of our club is being lost, and you know, like Shanks built the club, now we've lost it to the Yanks, and those sorts of things. Uh, listen, not all Americans are bad. But so I I worry about that. So that's one aspect to sort of think through. I worry that he is losing or has lost the locker room, as it were, uh, with I don't know, his approach to things. And it seems as though he's just taken so many different approaches this season that haven't sort of paid off and worked, uh, whether that's being really stubborn with certain players playing, being stubborn with others who haven't played. Um, and so I I guess there's a concern there where it seems as though he got the players he wanted. Again, I can't wait for the movie to come out unless for to know for sure. Uh, but it seems as though he got what he wanted. And then as things went bad, he kind of threw his hands up in the air and said, I don't, you know, I don't have what I need. Now, I will say, asterisk as well, some just crazy injuries. Yeah, 100%. But even with that, how you know, some of that? I mean, we used to give Klopp a a really hard time about we're so fit, and yet, you know, after two or three years of this, your body breaks down and they can't sustain.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

And you turn into Fabinho.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Right. Fabinho, that's right. And so, how much of that has to do with this as well? At the end of the day, I think I'm at this place. I don't, as just a pure fan and viewer, I don't want to watch another season like this. I know it's only been one, but I will say this. We'll say this as well. Despite our success, I almost feel like I'm every Arsenal fan out there is like somehow feeling good about what I'm about to say. Despite winning the title last year, I don't think I don't think we were still playing quite up to the level I would expect. And so I just I feel like it's gotten worse this season, and I'm concerned it's going to continue to get worse with what we're looking down the barrel of almost like a rebuild of sorts. And it's hard to know what that looks like. So in my mind, if that's the case, then I don't know that I want to give the keys to the kingdom to this guy if I'm FSG, etc. So I think I'm more thinking of who's the guy that actually completes or takes on this rebuild with, you know, in my mind, I mean, I think Mac is now rumored to leave this summer Dom. I could see wanting to and not wanting to be part of Rebuild. I could see Allison doing it. I could see obviously Van Dyke's going to move on. Like, I don't know who we are anymore. Anyway, I'll start the conversation there. I feel as though we need to move on. The problem being I don't know who's out there that I'm excited about.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

So you've hit on a lot of reasons why I think there's this massive split. Because what I read is a lot of people who were like, guys, how is this guy in slot still here after the PSV game in November? Like people are like, hey, that's when I knew, man. Like, what's going on? This has been obvious. You know, we haven't gotten any better. Blah, blah, blah. And then there's another camp who were like, what's the matter with you people? He won the title last season. He's gonna finish third or fourth this season. Like, my God. Like, you know, Klopp did the same thing, right? Um, and is that who we're gonna be now? Are we gonna turn into Chelsea or Man United or you know, whoever wear one bad season and you're just out? Do we want to do we want to be that kind of team? Um, and so I think it's really difficult. I'm gonna land on an answer, but like let me just kind of lay out the case. So, number one, I still don't think that we have a really good answer to last season. Because while he should get a ton of credit for coming in and doing what he did, like no, no disputing that, right? At the same time, that it was a team that he inherited that was top of the table in March the season before. And I brought up this game a ton on our podcast, but I'll bring it up again. That city game at home, the game where you know Diaz misses the breakaway, the game where um doesn't miss the same. Yeah, right. You know, he's a Bayern doesn't. Um, the game where we were just completely all over them in the second half, especially of that game, still sticks out in my mind. And that's why when we started the podcast, I picked us to win the title. Like I didn't know Arnie's slot from you know, like whoever else. He was a brand new manager to everybody, right? We didn't know how it was gonna go, but it was because that team was already so good, you know, and so you can make an argument that, like, well, they went through a title race and didn't live up to it the first season. It stands to reason they're talented enough to be able to do it the second season. And so it's anyway, it's really hard to know like how much credit does he get? He certainly gets some, but like, you know, how much does he get? And then this season, and I'll I'll run through the stats here in a minute because they're interesting, but you know, you could make an argument that it was sort of a season from hell, couldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

You don't get a great preseason because of what happened with Joda. Um, and then you have a season where now, again, I think that part of this is slots coaching, but Solid was not the guy that he was, you know, in the title winning season. We have a ton of injuries, like you mentioned. Van Dyke, prime peak Van Dyke anymore. Um, you don't have Isok at all, basically, for the entire season. No preseason for him either. Exactly. And you know, he has a major injury, and you know, Verts has a really tough transition into the league. And so you could make the case there's like all these, you know, we we lose Trent, we don't have a right back. You know, Frimpong is healthy and then gets hurt 11 times. And so, like, anyway, you could make the case that it's sort of seasoned from hellish, and hey man, like, look, just write it off. We made Champions League and let's go again, right? Um, so I mean, like, I I think talking about it out loud, like I can totally understand why people could fall on either side, you know. Um from a statistical point of view, though, like we looked at this before and it's super interesting. We don't do this a lot on the pod, so I'll try to go through this in a way that's not super boring, but let's just look at this year versus last year and let's talk about it in terms of uh going forward. Okay, so on the offensive side of the ball, our attacking play. The only stat that is better than last season is our possession. So we're almost at 60% possession this season. We were at 58 last season. By the way, that was second in the league in both seasons. Okay. That is the only thing that is better this year. So dis that's kind of interesting. So put it another way, despite having the ball more, we're doing way less with it. With it, yeah. Goals are down, goals per game are down, goals from open play are way down, big chances created, way down. Uh XG, way down, shots on target, way down, etc. etc. etc. And you could take that on the face of it and say, well, yeah, like Sala didn't have a great season and we didn't have Isok. Okay. You could also say, well, that is a concerning trend that didn't get really any better for us. And how's that going to get solved next season? You know, like is it just bringing in more players, or is there an actual tactical fix to that? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

For sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

You know, then if you look at defensively, ironically enough, from open play, we're not that bad. The real problem for us this season is we've given up so many goals on set pieces.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

So many. I think it's gotten better. And actually, if you probably look at it, I didn't do this, but so don't quote me on this, but I think if you break it down to like second half of the season, we've actually done better scoring set pieces than giving them up. Um but the if you look at the overall defensive metrics though, like they're still slightly worse. Okay, so I bring this up to say this is a team that across the board, except for possession, has gotten worse. Right? And so it's a big bet that you have to make if you are FSG, if you are Hughes, if you are Edwards, to say that trend is player related and it's not RNA slot related. Do you know what I mean? Because like you're making that's a huge bet to make to say, no, you know what? It's personnel. Like we get some the right players in here, we'll turn it around. Um so anyway, thanks for bearing with me with that. But like where I would, I guess, go as far as replacing him or not in a vacuum is this to win the league.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Are we as good as Arsenal when it comes to like contending for the Premier League? Not 1v1. No, we're not. City? No. We're not.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

If you look at Europe, like think about the game we just watched today. Liverpool's not nearly as good as either of those teams. Right? Not remotely close either. Like, I honestly think if PSG really got pushed, they could have scored more, you know, passes than they did.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Oh, they they blew a couple chances. Damn it.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we're not there, and we were a season ago. And so I think the question is one of do you really believe that Arnie slot's the guy to get us back to being a heavyweight in Europe and closing a pretty six substantial gap with city and arsenal? And I gotta be honest, I don't know. I don't, I don't, I don't have a good answer. So I think that actually leads me to okay, if I don't know, then it kind of depends on what's out there, which is why we're having this conversation. If I don't know and prime Jurgen Klopp is out there, I think slots getting tossed overboard, right? Right if I don't know and Prime Pep is out there and he wants to come to Liverpool, I think slots getting tossed overboard, right? But we don't know if there's an obvious upgrade out there right now, you know, and so because of that, he might end up keeping his job.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Well, so so here's the conversation then.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Let's keep pulling on that thread.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

In an ideal world, let's pretend you know three of our top candidates are available. Who would those people be? Because I like the the the the way you're framing it is saying who's the person that's gonna get us back to who we used to be or to the like you know, the prime uh you know, top of the champions league. Who's gonna get us there? Is it slot? You know, not sure. So who is that? Is it you know, is the only person you can think of like Luis Enriquez? Like are there other can candidates or other people that are like if they were available, that would be the person I would want?

SPEAKER_02 19:34

So I think I'll give you three names. And I'm not suggesting they should come here, but three names. Okay, so Hancy Fli Hancy Fleck at Barcelona. Now he won the Champions League at Bayern Munich, I'm pretty sure, right? He leads a very attack-oriented and very good Barcelona team who probably should have beaten Atletico this year, but they kept getting red cards, which was funny. Um they had some injury issues too, right? Like I think you know, Rafinha had a pretty big issue. So he's one that has had success at multiple big clubs. Okay, so that would kind of check a box for me potentially. Uh Enrique is the other one. You know, I have no idea if he wants a different challenge, but look, let's assume he wins it again at PSG this year. You know, he's never managed in the Premier League before. Would he want to crack at it? And if he would, I would be very interested, you know. Um, and then the third one is is Jabi Alonso, and that's the one I think that would get a lot of scrutiny if we brought him in because he's one of us, like he's played for the club, obviously, and all of that. And he's got that huge glowing part of his resume, which is Leverkusen, and then this whole Madrid thing, which I think if you're pro Alonso, you're willing to dismiss it because you're like, it's it's Real Madrid, kind of a dumpster. It's a bunch of divas, you know, like he want to play individual football, like whatever, right? Would you want to manage Jude Bellingham? No, you know, like um, so the other side of it is though, like, okay, he's not proven yet that he could take a big club and get them to the level that we want to. So that could that be a repeat? Could he come in and kind of almost repeat the results of this season where we're we're top four and you know, we make the quarterfinals, but then we get smoked by somebody and there's a huge gap at the top, you know. Right, right. What would you add anybody else to that list?

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Uh I think we had talked about I think there's a world where I could entertain uh Julian Nigelsman as well, uh, depending on how Germany's, you know, World Cup goes. But the tricky part with that is more timing and logistics of you know, summer. Obviously, you you wouldn't do that this summer. How would that work? It that'd be more of like we're sticking with a slot, this sucks, November, December, time to make a change. That's one. And then there's some, like, you know, do we want to follow the same sort of realm as slot with guys that are known but maybe not that well known, like um Ariel at at well, I guess he he's leaving Burmouth. He's leaving Burmouth. That's right. And then um Glasnar Palace. Yeah, is one that's been linked before. Yeah, a couple others in that in that sort of yes, that ilk. So untested, maybe on this level, still very good. So, but yeah, I don't think there's a lot of you know, world meters out there and that you want to pull from that I'm what if what if um what if Unay Emery said, Hey, Villa, you know, having some um financial issues, I don't know if we can compete, and I'd be interested. I would be intrigued. I think I I just feel like I've seen that movie so many times now of a lot of promise, and yeah, you there's probably reality where you could blame that on you know financial issues and not being able to have the players that you want, but I just see year after year their team kind of going down the tubes when they need to be able to play well. So I think that would be concerning.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Well, so love, but here's kind of like we said, here's where this gets interesting, though. So you brought this up. So Bournemouth job is open, right? Um, Palace job is gonna be open. Um, not that we would have any interest, but the Fulham job is gonna be open. I think Silva's contract is expiring at the end of the season. Uncle Enzo Moresca, who, man, did that guy jump off of a sinking ship just in time. He did, is also gonna be looking for a job. Um, we don't know what Enrique's gonna do. And then there's a couple biggies that like could come open, right? So if Pep wins the league, if he overtakes Arsenal and City win this, is that it? Does he ride off in the sunset? I think he does.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

I think he does too.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

And so then if the city job comes open again, like what does that do to this game of kind of musical chairs? And then the other one that like I would be really curious if Arsenal gag the league and if they bow out to Atletico in the Champions League, is there a conversation in a back room somewhere where they're like, can this guy get us across the line? You know, again, maybe not. It feels like he's got like in some you know, forms of the of the uh fan base almost like cult icon status, but who knows? I would be having that conversation. You and I would have an emergency phone call. Yeah, but like that could open. Okay. So then follow me here. So okay, the city job opens. Who are the guys who are the who are the top of the list?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Enzo company pep lenders, just kidding. Sorry, I couldn't help it. Um gosh. Uh I mean uh it depending on what happens. Yeah, it could be Jabby, depending on what happens with Arteta, could could be Arteta too, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

But but that is the thing. So if that job comes open, the guys you mentioned, so like company, okay, now Bayern's open.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Bayern's open, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Bayern would be very appealing, I think, to Javi Alonso. That was another one of the clubs he played for, right? Um you know, if Enrique moves now, PSG is open. But like, and and by the way, the other part of this is that would be super interesting. Would any of those jobs appeal to slot? Like, would he be like, eh, you know what, like a lot of pressure here, it's not really working out, whatever. Like, I'll I'll jump to one of these. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

But a lot of Todd. I mean, unless they unless they get relegated.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

So unless they get relegated.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Right. So there's just a lot of jobs open. You know, and and and so my point is if Liverpool have somebody they want, they need to be decisive now. Because if not, there's always gonna be managerial talent for sure. But like, you know, I would hate to say, you know what, I really like this guy, but I'm not quite sure, and you missed this summer, and then we've got to make a move October, November next season. And then, like, and then who's left? Because it's gonna be like someone like Pachettino or Nagelsman or a World Cup coach who you know is is now done with their contract and kind of on the open market, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Right. And that and that's you know, a really hard road to kind of dive into a club mid-season, no preseason, you know, already potentially having a dumpster fire of a season. So I don't I don't wish that on anyone.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

So uh also did you hear just for funsies, the leading candidate for the Madrid job.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Is it Mourinho?

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

How great is that? That guy can't die. He he really can. He's got he doesn't have nine lives, he's got ninety.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

I know. Respect, man. Respect.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Can you imagine like after he got fired by Spurs? I was like, it's over for him at the top level, and now like he could be back.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Goes away, loses some games, still kind of shifts around. Well, who is it they lost in Champions League, and he went and like followed the ref in the parking garage, and then he still I think it was Champions League, still has a job, might get a good job. Well, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 27:41

I should real quick, sorry to hop back. Let me add one to the list that I would say a hard note to. Like, I don't want Zedon. Let's just let's just say that up front.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

I don't want um well he's always floating out there, but he uh he doesn't speak English, that's an issue.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

No, it's it's it it's not not ideal. Um, but back to Mourinho, he would be very like Ancelotti to me because like when they plucked him out of Everton, Everton was mid. They were they were not good, and it was like, what has this guy done to deserve the job other than he's had it before? Now listen, he did a pretty good job. I think they but I'm just saying, like, on the merits of it, it was like, wait, you're gonna we're gonna get this guy who's got like 46 points at Everton last season, he's gonna get the Madrid job? Okay. Um so so anyway, okay, but I don't think I ever pinned you down. Of the list we talked about, is there a guy that you would take now that you would you would drive Arnie to the airport, you would load his luggage, you would say hey, good luck to you, and you would bring in somebody else?

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Of those of the three that you talked about, I'm very intrigued by Alonzo. I think for a couple reasons. One, you know, hometown player that that does a lot for fan base, which is you know not in the good spirits at the moment. But then he also we have a lot of players that he's managed before. And I I I think I don't know, there's something to that. Obviously, you can't you can't really fault uh Frimpong and health and those sorts of things, or Verts having a hard transition in, but I think that would be really helpful for at least those two kind of gelling together. Um so that one intrigues me. Um but but yeah, I think that's the hard part for me, is none of them I'm like yeah, I mean aside from Enrique uh Louis Luis Enriquez, I feel like that would be it'd be a home run, but I it feels like that's like there haven't been any links or anything. Yeah, and yeah, and it depends on how they finish. Yeah, and then also like obviously I think the harder part with with him is if if they win the Champions League and he's like, Hey, I'm out of here, everyone and their mom is gonna want him. And there's so many jobs open. So, like, you know, again, like I think that that him coming available could actually move other people. Like, I could see if Arsenal doesn't get top, you know, win the league. I could see, like, oh well, we're cool with him, but oh, he's available out, sure. Uh, you know, again, like you mentioned City, etc. So I think there's a lot of people that would actually go for that. So it'd be a lot of I mean, I could even see, dude. Honestly, at the end of the day, I could see Man Usen Kerrick, cool man, but like that's another one, right? I mean, that's a great point.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

What do they do? He did a great job. Is he the guy to take them to the next level?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Yeah, I would say yes, but at the at the end of the day, like if you know if Luis comes available, you're gonna say no, especially if he wants to go. So, yeah, I think that's the hard part for me, is not none of them are really like, oh my gosh, drop everything, with the exception of him. Yep. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

So, anyway, I mean I I mean I think it's you know, it's a good discussion, and and you know, to kind of put a um a pin in it, like at the end of the day, we we we can't allow the narrative for this season to be shifted because like this influences next season. This was never a transitional season, like it just wasn't, man. Like, I mean, come on, how many people picked us to win the league? Not not that experts are right, I'm just talking about the expectations, like so many. On our preview pod, all three of us did. You know, like the the articles before the season were about you know dynasty, and so you do not spend the money that we spent. And you don't bring back Mo Salah, and you don't bring back Van Dyke because you want to have a transition season. It's just not true. And so I say that because what's the expectation gonna be for next season? Like, are we ratcheting down expectations? Are we like, no, no, we still need a ton of bodies, and you know, like let's just hope we're top four again? Because that would be a shame. I mean, like, to me, we're wasting years of the ESOX and the Vertzes and you know, DOMs of the world if we're just gonna be hoping to make top four again.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Well, that's the other piece, too, that I find very intriguing. And I wonder, like, I would love to be a fly on the wall of the conversation post end of the season, where I'm assuming FSG gets together with slot and says, hey, that wasn't very good. Uh, what's the plan? And, you know, if it's some version of, well, I need a lot of stuff, guys, like get it together. I would just be like, hey man, um, yeah, pack your bags. But I, you know, I I would hope, well, I don't, I guess I don't know that I hope, but I would assume he has some winsomeness to be able to say, hey, I you know, we can do this, that, and the other with what we have and and figure it out. But I think the tricky part is to your point, there's a lot of players who are like, hey, I'm not, I'm not gonna sit around for a rebuild. I'm not doing that. Whether they're young or they're old. Like I, you know, like the the the Allisons of the world, like there's a rumor that or reason why that rumors popped up. Um, but then also it's gonna be hard to attract players to this project. Like that was the allure of like the Verts and the Esac is like, hey, Dynasty, hey, they just like trampled people and they weren't even in first gear. Like, I want to go there this season. I don't, you know, like who are we going to get and why on earth would they come? I think is a big question.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Yeah, I agree. And I mean, like, let's take two guys that are loosely linked, and they may not be reality in reality like guys that would come, but you know, Elise, why in the world would he ever leave Bayern for this? That's a team that's gonna win the Bundesliga every season, but moreover, you know, they are a real force in Europe again. They're still very much in that tie, even though they lost 5-4 today. They go back home for the second leg, do they not?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

So, I mean should have a hat trick too. What is he doing?

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yeah, so like beyond what he costs and and everything else, why would he come unless he really, really, really desperately wants to play in the Premier League? Um, and then another one would be like a Barklew on PSG. Again, same question. Like, why would he come here? Again, all things being equal. Maybe he's not getting the contract terms he wants, like, but all things being equal, you're on a team that has a better manager and is much better than us. Why would you come here? You know what I mean? The only reason would be we threw the bag at you and we don't do that. Like, we're not gonna go be like, hey, here's you know, whatever hundred thousand a week. Like, we're not gonna do that. Um, so yeah, I mean, like, there's to me, there's no quick fix. I could be wrong. I still think that there's no hopefully we don't go like big name hunting again this, you know, this uh summer transfer window, but like even if we tried to, it was way easier when you're coming off a title than it is now.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Well, and and with some of those guys, I feel like it's throwing the bag. There's two ways to think about that. One is the transfer price, and then one is the actual salary. And then with some of these guys, you're it's like the double bag. Like if you get like Barcala or Lisa, you're gonna have to pay a pretty penny to get them, and then also pay them so much per week. And we're we're you know, offloading a ton of salary, even just with Salah coming off the books. We don't want to burn all that immediately with other people that we sign. And so there's aspects where we're linked with guys like Diamante from is he Leipzig? Leipzig, I think, uh, who's young, he's gonna cost a lot, but we're not gonna have to pay him, you know,$300 a week. But yeah, if we get somebody like Elise or Bargala, we're gonna have to pay for them and pay them a lot week to week. So yeah, I I don't know what that looks like. I don't, yeah. I think it's gonna be hard to attract guys to that project. But again, I think that's the other thing, too, is like, are we this is a discussion for a future podcast, but are we also shifting who we are? Because it seems like this past summer there was a shift on how we thought about signings, how we thought about who it is that we get. And so are we starting to think and consider hey, it's a it's a new world out there. Do we need to shift the way that we think about squad formation, uh, payment and salary structures, those sorts of things? Because up until this point, we were like, we don't do that, but there's a little wiggle room there in how we do stuff. And is I guess this this summer could be an aha moment of oh, I guess we do do that now. Maybe it's changed.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

So the other thing I wonder, because you brought up about like would would people leave this summer? So if we announce he's back, you know, we're we're gonna retain Slop, who's convinced we're gonna contend next season, like really contend. Because if here's one like Allison, that's sort of been in the news. Van Dyke. How many good years does he have left? Now he's only got he's entering, I think, the last year of his deal. But I'm just saying, if I'm his guy, I'm like, hey man, how many more elite seasons do you have at this level? And if the answer is two, do you want to spend 50% of those on a team that is going nowhere? No. No, I I don't think there's anything to say that he would leave, but my point is let's say he does. I like Leone. I think Kanate's had a terrible year, but in general, I like him. I like the guy that we signed Jacques, like you know, Jacques Quay, I don't know how you pronounce it, right? No. Yeah, crushed it. Sure. We're not winning the league with those guys at center back, like, period. So, you know, that's a totally different conversation. So, like, it's just the point is, I know we're kind of rambling a bit, the point is like it's kind of hard to see all this coming together right now. Even if if we don't keep him, there's no obvious upgrade, barring again, like someone like Enrique saying, I want to come in. If we do, what's the path to tell the fans this is the team that is going to contend next season?

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Well, and yeah, that's the hard part. It's like you we we did this a couple pods ago of like if you look at our starting 11, who's a lock? And and yeah, who who is, you know, who is the the team that is going to get us back to where we were. I don't know. And there's guys that, like you said, the guys that have already left, guys that are rumored to be leaving, depending on slot in, out. And you know, depending on how that all shakes out, who is actually going to come here, it's hard to see the way forward. And I I think that to me, that's very indicative of if that's the case. I feel like a lot of instability in all these conversations and touch points. If that's the case, like to me, that's that's the red flag of we need to get somebody that's a stabilizer, then. If slots not stabilizing this thing, if that's if that's how we feel at the end of the day, then we need to go out and find somebody who can stabilize organizationally the players, the fan base. Because that's that I mean again, I'm not a Klopp, that but that's who Klopp was. So it doesn't have to be him necessarily, obviously, but it probably needs to be somebody like him or somebody that has sort of that that skill set. No, no, no, no. There's not a lot of guys like him.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Yeah, and I mean, like, look, we're you know, this is gonna be true for everybody, but we're not getting much of a preseason this summer either. It's not like we're gonna have a chance to get back on the pitch and get his ideas integrated and like hey, reinforced and control and like whatever else. Like, no, these guys are gonna all be at the World Cup, and then we're gonna start the season again five minutes later.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Yeah, um, everybody and their mom's getting hurt too.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Yeah, right. Well, I mean, like, look again, look at Van Dyke. Like I've said this, the guy just plays every day, he's gotta be fried. Like, there's no way he's not burnt out, right? So, um, all right, you want to do a little quick round the horn? Any other issues you want to talk through?

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Uh, first, a few things. Uh, number one, you mentioned where would Scot uh slot go? Could he go? Have we talked about this to Newcastle? Does he fit there?

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Well, I mean, look, you're you know, that's another one that's gonna open. There's no way that he has coming back. He's not, he's not, which also means Tyndale out, sucker, too bad. Is he like is he like I'm the air parent?

SPEAKER_03 40:47

I'm getting it. That would be wild.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Yeah, that that thing is kind of teetering too, right? If we just kind of stick on that for a minute, because I think you know, you you've heard the whole news about live golf, you know, and the Piff kind of pulling the funding there. Like, I don't know how that, you know, kind of decision influences Newcastle, too. So I had essentially said a few pods ago that maybe like solid could go there. I don't know if the money's there anymore. Like, if if you know, again, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

But um but so there's there's that. Then I wonder as well. I mean, there's been rumors of uh like replacement players for us, especially wingers. Anthony Gordon not coming. I feel good about that. Great, great. Thank God. Oh gosh, you had to be he had to be ping something else with Live Golf, but I lost it.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Well, what about let me throw one out? You brought up Allison. Do you think he'd actually go to Uvenice? Can Italian teams pay those wages? Like, I feel like they're all having like financial issues. You know, I mean, I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm in in sincerely saying that. Is that something that you think has a five out of ten chance of happening, or is this just fake news?

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Um I I'm of two minds. So he he resigned or he added a year to his contract, correct? So it wasn't like a re-sign, but like he added one extra year. I actually I I could see him going. I just don't I don't think he actually will. I think he's he's too good of a guy. I think he sees the writing on the wall, he sees his injury history and knows like, hey, I'm not long for the league, at least like the way that I have to play here. He sees him. I think he's the type of guy that wants to actually be able to uh be a mentor to the next one up, whether that's Marmadoshville or whomever uh Woodman in you know, knee injury and all.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Um hey, hey, he looked pretty good for the situation he got thrown into.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Until he hurt his knee for eight seconds and couldn't stand. Uh so I I think I can understand why he would want to go, but I think he'll stay. Um and and to answer your question, I think he'd have to dig a massive pay cut. They would just be like, can we loan him? That's what Italians do. We loan him, just loan.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

We loan him to Villa, who's like, hey, it turns out we're just gonna put him on the bench.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

What do we do with him, by the way? Do we just I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Well, well, let me think there's more than a chance he does go. Because because look, here's the counter to that. How many guys are we just gonna let leave for free? You know what I mean? Like, is is this just I mean, you know, we're doing Sala a solid apparently, and he's just leaving for nothing. Okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Which why? Why?

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Yeah, whatever. Um, you know, we've let every other good player that's come in here the last five years leave for free, basically, and you know, like except for Luis Diaz, right? And then he's the only one that's gotten a fee. And then we're just gonna leave let Allison go. Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

You know, we're gonna let Allison go, we're gonna let Sala go, we're gonna let uh Vicky go.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Trent, all of them just like free, free, free. It's a great business model.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Max, we're gonna let him go.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Yeah.

unknown 43:59

So

SPEAKER_02 44:00

So, like, I think there's a chance that if he says, Yeah, I'm I mean and I'm willing, you know, to listen, and then we can find a deal, like, hey, you know, I mean, yeah, and look, I love Allison, but he's also hurt 50% of the time now. So you know, if you get a fee, maybe he would go. No, but that's a big deal. Like him, Robertson, and Salah all leaving, it was gonna happen eventually, but that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

That's it. There's the like Van Dyke's the only one left.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

But then I'm wondering, then is Van Dyke like, wait a minute, everybody's gone.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Well, here's my thing with Van Dyke though.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

Like, where does he go? Oh no. He's not going he's not going anywhere in England.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

I think that's to me, that's a given.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Barcelona.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

As long as it's free. That's their only thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Yeah, they'll they'll pull a lever and then they'll bring him in.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Like, listen, we'll sell another part of our media group.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

We are gonna sell the TV rights in the year 2074 to you.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

We're selling we own part of the moon. We're gonna sell that. Um I guess.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Curtis Jones. In, out, he's gone.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

He's our new right back. I think we're gonna keep him. That's not true. Uh we're gonna loan him to Aston Villa. I heard he wants to be able to.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

We're gonna bring back Harvey and then bench him. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Uh maybe, yeah. I mean, hey, listen, we have Simikas. Let's just put him on the right instead of the left.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

Oh, we do. Is Simikas coming back?

SPEAKER_00 45:26

He's alone. He was alone, yeah. I love the guy. Thanks for that photo. Um, I think Jones will stay. Uh I think Jones is gone.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

I think Jones, yeah, I'm I'm negative. I think he's out.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Well, where's he gonna go? I think here's the thing. Like, I think I think you have to think long and hard about moving on because like he, as much as I I could understand his frustration with the way things have gone, he's also like if you look at look at his injury history and his performance, like where does he envision himself going? Yeah, for Brentford, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Right. But I'm just saying, and he's looking at this and he's going, wait a minute. I've got how much money? And he's like, Okay, okay. He's like, all right, cool, cool, cool. And then he's like, wait a minute, Mac is not playing awesome this year, and I can't get off the bench.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

You know what I mean? Agreed. But I would also like if if you were to say that to me, I'd be like, hey man, cool. Um I need you to play every day. Like, be available.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Sure. I guess my point is he's like, look, Arnie, like, let's have a one-on-one, heart to heart. Like, what did I do, man? Like, I don't play anymore. You know, I don't want to be a reserve. I don't want to be endo. Are you endoing me? Like, this is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Sala's in the in the office, like eating popcorn, like watching the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Why did you put my locker next to Chiesa? Are you trying to tell me something?

SPEAKER_00 46:54

It's like you uh are I have no relationship with the manager. It's broken down.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

Yeah, he's like, you told me to go hang out with Chiesa and Sala and Endo. Like, why?

SPEAKER_00 47:02

He's like, go be friends with them. I forgot Chiesa was on our team. I've forgotten. I no true, truly, like, truly, I forgot he was on the team. Up until you said his name, I was like, uh, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

Forgot. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

I mean, Rio, is he gonna go?

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Sound what what do you feel it feels it feels like we're gonna sign a winger. We love Gakpo like a like a son, and we'll Rio will go on loan somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Do you regret because there was rumors we were gonna sell Gakpo last summer? Do you want do you want Lucho back?

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Yeah, I would have done a do over there for sure.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

100%. That was that was a missed opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Because my question here, like if I'm interviewing Hughes or Edwards, I'm like, like we just talked about, I'm like, guys, you let everybody leave for free. How come we had to we could have just let Diaz leave for free too? You know, like you want to sell.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Yeah. Or but also people wanted Gakpo. Wanted him. Right. Sell him. Um, will we actually get one of these high-priced players like Barcala Olyse?

SPEAKER_02 48:17

I thought you were gonna say higher price, like, you know, kind of more prospect players. Like, I still think we'll get some good players in this window because you know, like it's not like we've had a bad season, but we're still gonna finish in the top four. You still get Champions League, like we're still a team that I mean, right? But like, I don't again, no superstar. He's coming here.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

We sell a Mac.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

That well, okay, so so we gotta do this, you know, fleshed out more. But I mean, like, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a surprise. Wow, that's a bad sentence. There might be a surprise player sold, put it that way. Um, yeah, to me, we still have way too many eights in our midfield. We don't have a true six in our midfield, and Verts had a tough season at the 10. So, you know, like I just the midfield needs work, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Yeah, and if you're gonna keep Jones Which which we're not true.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

I mean who's it up to? That's the question. I see Mac going to Turkey for hair plugs, and then also to somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

The the buzz is not good.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

It's not good, but he's he's prepping for players.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

I love him, and I love Mac. He two seasons ago, even last season, but like best player on the team was Mac.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Um, but then I could see a a world where we sell him and then get a Wharton or Rummer to Archie Gray, especially if Tottenham goes down, fire sale time. Or what's the name of the the what's the name of the blonde hair?

SPEAKER_02 50:01

No, Baliba on uh Brighton.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Yep. And especially because his stock has gone down. Uh or I can't remember the what's the blonde-haired kid on Tottenham too? The one that uh I can't remember his name. He's young. Or Jay Gray? No, no, no, no, not him. Blonde haired dude.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Oh, oh, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I know what you're talking about. I can't see his name right now.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

I can see his face. Slippy slappy. Slippy Simmons Salmons. Way off. Way off. Yeah. Will, okay, so who's getting who's going down? Obviously Wolves and Burnley. Give it to me.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

West Ham, unfortunately, yeah. West Ham, really? Spurs, man. Listen, they're it'll be the funniest thing ever if they go down. They're too talented to go down. They're going to go down.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

They're going down. Call it right here. It's happening. The Zerby will pivot into a great job somehow.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

The Zerbi's going to be the Chelsea manager at the start of next season. We all know it.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Uh Javi Alonso's rumored for that job, too. He's an look.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

If if he doesn't get the Liverpool job and he's really emotional about it, and he wants to find like I could see him going, you know, somewhere else, but there's no way it's Chelsea. There's no way.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Especially after if you're at Madrid and then you decided to do that, I have no sympathy for you.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

None. The whole the Chelsea gig now has literally become a retirement fund. It's like I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna get fired, but I'm gonna get a five-year guaranteed deal. So who cares? I'm gonna have to manage 38 players who are all like you know mediocre except for you know three of them. Um who, and by the way, I don't even know if Cole Palmer is on that list anymore. He's been so bad this season, you know, but um yeah. He's really in his head about his hair. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Yeah, he's he's heard the pod. He knows. He knows. He's been doubted. Yeah, he needs to go with Mac to Turkey and just do like go with Sala. Salah's a great guy, it's a whole new hairline. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Klopp, they all they've all been there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Yeah, it's hair and teeth, man. He and Bobby, it's a whole new smile.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

All right.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

All right, we gotta get out of here now. It's been good. This is this is what the people want. Come on. It's the riffing.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Anyway, Seinfeld fan, when he's like, I think we've officially hit rock bottom. We need a new format. Yeah, we gotta retool, pull the plug. All right, well, um, thought that was a good conversation about slot. We'll see what happens. I would imagine that there will be there's been some strategic leaks, maybe, but I would imagine there'll be some sort of you know, final news one way or another, like is pretty shortly after the season wraps up. Um we'll leave with this question, Johnny. Do we get a result at Old Tratford this weekend?

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Uh no, I think we get completely rocked.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

That is not a team that we have done very well against in the recent past, so no, I don't feel good about it.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Well, and in in the recent past, we've been good. That's the worst part.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

So yeah. Um funny part is we win that game, we're probably gonna finish third. The the thing that's funny if we don't is we have to also go at Villa. Now they've got different competitions, but like then you can finish fifth.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

I would say it would be the most normal in Liverpool thing if we actually go there and win, because it's like the season where Allison scores the header goal, where we're like, we're never gonna we're gonna drop out of top four and then we end up being third. So I could see that.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Um, I do not feel good about a result either. Um, but we will be back to pod. Maybe do you want to do a manual recap? Should we just talk about the game? Is that worthwhile or no?

SPEAKER_00 53:49

I feel like we could do that.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

All right. Yeah, let's plan for it. That's what the people want. So um, so we'll see you guys next week then. So for Johnny, I'm Matt.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

Thanks for listening. We will catch you next time.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Thanks for tuning in to America's Anfield. If you enjoyed the show, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. You can also find us on YouTube, Twitter, Threads, and Instagram at America's Anfield. Got questions or topics you want us to cover? Send them our way. We'd love to include them in a future episode. Until next time, up the red.