Episode 10 - Sustainable Palm Oil, Certified: What's Behind the RSPO Label

Whether it says RSPO Certified, Mixed, or Credits — the RSPO label helps consumers identify products made with Certified Sustainable Palm Oil (CSPO). 

These ecolabels aren’t just symbols; they represent a rigorous certification process that supports transparency, traceability, and sustainability in the palm oil supply chain.

Hosted by Fara Rom, this episode features Shazaley Abdullah, Head of Certification at RSPO, who breaks down what each label means, how certification works, and how you can make more informed choices at the checkout.

Want to decode the RSPO label on your favorite products? Tune in to learn what it really means for sustainability and your choices.

Learn more about sustainable palm oil at www.rspo.org.

*The views and opinions expressed on The Palm Pod are solely those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect those of The Palm Pod or the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO).

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

You are now listening to the palm pod, brought to you by RSPO, a global partnership to make palm oil sustainable. Hi, I'm Farum, and you're tuning in to the Palm Pod, where we host engaging discussions, expert insights, and industry updates on sustainable palm oil, guiding consumers and businesses to make better choices for the planet. Did you know in 2022 the Round Table on Sustainable Palm Oil or RSPO was ranked among the top 12 food eco-labels, a recognition from a Dutch label guide that helps consumers navigate sustainability in their shopping choices? So when you're grocery shopping with sustainability in mind, eco-labels like RSPO certified make it a lot easier to know what you're exactly supporting. But behind that simple label is a detailed certification process that ensures palm oil is sourced responsibly based on RSPO standards with respect for people, planet, and prosperity. So, to break it all down today, we are joined by Shazali Abdullah, the head of certification and RSPO, to help us understand the different types of RSPO certifications and the labels you often see on product packaging. Welcome to the palm pot, Shazali.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Thank you very much for having me here.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Alright, before we dive into RSPO certification, we want to know you better. So can you share with us about your experience in the sustainable palm oil sector and your role as the head of certification at RSPO?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Well, uh hi Farah hi everyone. Thank you very much for inviting me here today. And it's really a pleasure for me to be here and taking it as a compliment to be on the Pump Pop channel. So I am actually starting my involvement in sustainability certification world back in 2010. As a very green person. No idea what of what certification means, how certification or how audit works, and what value that it really has. Along these 15 years, there have been a lot of lessons and also valuable experiences that I have learned and guide me to the pathway in the journey of creating and supporting the sustainable palm oil, as well as contributing to the how to say, the global sustainable development goal. Back in 2008, I was uh graduated in uh forestry science from University Malaysia Sabah. And I'm considered lucky at that time that uh as soon as I finished my graduation, I was offered to work in an oil palm plantation company in West Malaysia. And that was really my first experience to learn more about oil palm plantations and its industries. So um to cut things short, uh I got an opportunity to expand my career as an auditor since 2010. That is where I learned about the auditing, about the certification, and also about the sustainability journey. And yeah, that is where I started to know about RSPO as well. So in 2021, I got the opportunity to join RSPO secretariat, uh, where I started my position as a head of certification. So basically, my role in RSPO is to ensure that the RSPO certification was conducted and delivered with a high level of assurance and bring confidence to the members, to the stakeholders, and also to the public. So I think that is more or less my role uh as a head of certification, Farah.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

That's great to know. And it shows that you have a really credible and extensive experience in the oil palm industry. So let's start from the basics when we're talking about RS personification. So, what exactly is RS Purtification? And I think um a lot of the times the conversation about certification, it's about uh downstream, upstream. But why does it matter to everyday consumers outside of the industry? Why does it matter for people to know about the certification?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, it's a very interesting question. And yeah, just be ready to give me time to explain. Okay, Fada. So uh actually there are many people outside wondering, you know, what is RSPO certification actually? And how does it work and what value does it carry? So sometimes people call me boss. Well, you know, Malaysians like to address others, other people as a boss, right? So so people say people call me boss. Is the RSPO mandatory for all palm oil companies? Or maybe they call me boss if RSPO exists. Why are there still issues with deforestation? You know? So let me try to break what RSPO certification is uh in a simpler way. So, RSPO certification, if I can put it in a very general, in a very real situation, we call it as a passport for the palm oil, you know? To prove that it has been produced uh sustainably or responsibly. So this passport will later provide assurance that it is legitimately produced and there are possibilities uh for the people to trace to its origin, where it is coming from. So um another fact that we need to know that uh RSPO certification is a voluntary, it is not mandatory, but it's a voluntary. But see, look how many people or how many members that we have nowadays. They are all joining uh RSPO certification as a voluntary effort. And it has been established according to the national standards that has that checks on the no deforestation or maybe no workers were administrated, you know, no environmental issues in the production of the palm oil products. So there are involvement of independent parties or companies that are accredited to provide a piece of paper, also what's what's so called as a certificate, that every everybody, uh the certificate holder is proud to put on their office walls. When you enter an office, you can see the uh certificate was paste or put on the walls to prove and to present to the people that they have put their best efforts and their commitments in meeting the uh national or international standards that are recognized in the RSPO standard. So now, why you should care of certification, of RSPO certification? Because palm oil is literally uh everywhere. It is in your instant noodle, in your chocolate that you eat every day, in your lipstick, shampoo, and even the madrin you spread on your rotichanai, for example. So every morning you wake up, you brush your teeth using the toothpaste, there are palm oil element or palm oil contents inside the toothpaste. So that's how close we are to the palm oil in our daily life. So that is the main reason why we should be concerned about palm oil that is produced sustainably. To give confidence that palm oil products produced by RSPO certified by certified RSPO members is produced in a way that it's respected by the peoples, like the communities, the workers, the children. It does not jeopardize the planet's needs like maintaining the HCV peaks are not being diminished and it is uh properly managed, as well as maintaining at the same time maintaining the revenue and economic of the RSPO members. Means that if you are going for RSPO certification, it does not mean that you need to be lost or need to be roogie in your business. Instead, you will earn and gain more value with it. So without RSPO, probably consumers might be using a product made of palm oil, probably sourced from uh deforested areas, or maybe uh uh using a child labor within the plantation or within the operation, and not even know where it is coming from.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Okay, so then the certification actually concerns with those who produce palm oil or those who use palm oil in the products that they're producing, for example, like um, like you said, toothpaste, uh shampoos. So, how it is translated then it you can identify it through RSPO labels. So, consumers can identify these labels, for example, RSPO certified or mixed or credits. So, with these labels, can you explain the differences between all of the labels that is available under the RSPO certification and what does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

When consumers see labels like RSPO certified, mix or credits, these are actually different supply chain models attached to it. So they tell us how RSPO certified palm oil has been handled from the plantation all the way down to the products on the shelf. So let me try to put an analogy and make it easy, maybe for at least for Malaysian context. Imagine you are buying a Tetari at Mama. By the way, uh our pump pot is uh for international listeners. So for those outside Malaysia, Mama is like our version of all-day uh dining street cafe. So for the product that I accompany with certified label, it is actually produced from RSPO certified materials that are traceable all the way to the mills. From a technical perspective, it is referring to the uh materials that are certified under identity preserve and segregated. So people know about RSPO IP, RSPO SG, uh as part of the supply chain model in RSPO. So these two models provide the most traceable models to its origin. Coming back to the tetarate from Hamak Story, how do you imagine IP in the identity preserve? It's like you order a tetarade, and the milk that they use for the tetarate preparation is cow's milk from ABC farm, specific ABC farm. It is certified, it is properly handled, it is not mixed with other cow's milk from another farm. So that is how the IP works. For segregation or for SG, feel the same scenario, just that it is coming from several cow's milk farms. It is also certified, but it was mixed among certified and also certified. So it is a mixture of certified. So hopefully that cow's milk analogy makes sense, alright? So for the mix label, uh it is coming from a product that was produced from a mixture of certified and non-certified. And that's that's where you can see a label of mix on the products, and that is uh covered under the mass balance model of the supply chain. So now just imagine mass balance. Uh the Mamax mix regular milk and also fresh cow's milk in the same pot. But he does trace or he does keep a notebook of how much fresh milk or certified portion that he uses every day. So even though the final tetari is a mix of certified and uncertified, he is still supporting the use of fresh milk that is not 100% uh certified in every glass. So that's a mass balance. A mix of certified and mix of non-certified within the product. But it is the certified portion is uh traceable and tracked to the origin. Then the last type of uh label is uh another type of label is uh credits label, RSQ credits label. So it's like you are drinking tetarek from the mammoth with uh regular milk, but while paying, you're also giving ticks to the mammoth to continue supporting sustainable cow's milk for his trips. So I put cow's milk as an analogy to our palm oil product. So these ticks will later be used and contributed to the certified farm owners. I hope that provides some ideas uh of how we could distinguish the levels and yeah, for the useful for the consumers moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Okay, so one question. So for RSPO credits, this also benefits smallholders, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yep, yep, because uh one of the credits uh sellers uh that we identify in the RSPO certification is the smallholders. So they are planting, they are growing oil palm and they are selling the FFB, or maybe they can have option to sell the credits. So that's how the manufacturers can provide supports and also giving them more incentive to always continue doing uh planting or producing the sustainable palm oil.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

There's a really great way for consumers to actually, when they read the ingredients label and when they see this, they know exactly what they are supporting. So, okay. Um, with that, I would like to go to the next question, but it's more on the principles behind uh RSPO standards or RSPO certification. So in RSPO certification, there's three different pillars which uh was created focusing on people, planet, and prosperity. So through that, how are these three pillars reflects in the criteria that is created uh in in the standards or you know to get the certification?

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, right. Uh there are three main pillars that was uh that drive the development of RSPO uh sustainability standards. So let me try to simplify these three big pillars as you mentioned, people, planets, and also the prosperity. So basically, the people element, as a white Englishman say, uh, I'll just quote it. Don't step on people to climb the ladder. So this part is all about treating the workers, treating the workers, treating the children, treating the communities with all respect. There are no first labor, there are no child label, you pay a fair payment, fair pay or salary to the workers, you provide safe working conditions. So basically, you treat people decently. So this is how we uh explain the people element. And it's not just the workers, it's also protect the local communities, the indigenous peoples. So make sure that they are happy, they make sure that they are comfortable, then make sure that their land and their rights are protected and respected to plan to run our oil palm operations. So for the planet palms, RSPO have set a very strategic approach to keep the environmental protected, to preserve the environment and to respect the rights of the environment. RSPO says, uh, you want to grow palm oil? Yes, you can, it's fine, but don't destroy the forest. Don't destroy the rivers, the CVs or the wildlife habitat, you can do. It's okay, no problem. So if you can ensure that you are not doing deforestation, you are not planting on peatlands, you are you have got things uh or measures to manage things like water, waste, pesticides. So please go ahead with your plan for business expansion. No harm to do it because you know that you are on a good path. You know that you are doing it on the sustainable manner. So it's about producing sustainability and responsibly. So it's not like plant first and you regret uh after 30 years you you regret because there is no more land to steal, no more area to manage or to maintain. Another wise Englishman said, Don't burn the house to cook the dinner. You don't burn the house if you want to cook your dinner because you need to keep it, you need to stay in it, you need to live inside it. So, on the last part is on the prosperity. Well, RSPO don't hate profits. Me neither. I like profits as well. In fact, uh RSPO wants farmers and companies to do well in their business. But fairly, don't be greedy and don't be selfish. The idea is, uh everybody in the supply chain, from the smallholders to the big brands uh down the line, they should be able to earn and make a living without compromising other people. Don't take advantage for other people to make your profit. We need to respect each other, live together in this planet, and continue the life uh sustainably. That's the RSPO balance. It's not perfect, but it's a strong foundation to push the palm oil industry into a better direction for.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

So the pillars actually help the palm oil producer to make sure that their business is fair, the business uh takes care of the people, the prosperity, and the planets.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

So if a company or a producer uh wants to take it on the journey of getting RSPO being RSPO certified, what kind of steps does the company or the brand need to get that RSPO certification? And what types of certifications are available for anyone that is in the supply chain? And just how rigorous is the process?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Well, um, of course, in the normal thinking, uh some of RSPO members might talk, oh, now that I have become RSPO member, I can start selling and claim my products are RSPO certified. Some of them might say, Oh, I have sourced my certified material or I have sourced a material from RSPO certified company. So even if uh I'm not an RSPO member, I can resell the products to my buyer and uh as a RSPO certified. No, no, no, that's not how it works. So, first you must become a RSPO member. You register with RSPO, you obtain RSPO membership ID, and you need to know your business and roles in RSPO supply chain. Figure out what type of player you are in the supply chain. Are you plantation or are you meal? Are you a manufacturer or are you retail brand or brand owners? So determine which category you are. Because RSPO we have a different set of certifications for different roles. If you are plantation and a mill, uh as an outgrower or as a grower, you need to undergo RSPO principles and criteria. PNC is like uh, or maybe principles and criteria is like a full-body checkup of palm oil assessment. They will check uh at that phase, they will check the land use, your labor practices, your environmental impact, any stakeholder consultation you have conducted, technically everything. For example, our members like SDG3, Wilma, Musemas, these giants have their PNC for their estates. Another type of standard certification standard is uh under RSPO is RSPO supply chain certification. So this is for everyone else, like the refineries, manufacturers, traders, and etc. It is all about traceability where you can prove where your palm oil comes from and are you mixing responsibly or keeping things clean. Not to forget another version of standard is uh for the independent smallholder, we have also independent smallholder certification standard. So for the members like uh Kagil, uh they have RSPO uh SEC to so to show that they are sourcing uh palm oil uh from a sustainable source and they are producing following our supply chain standard. I mean, after you have determined which kind of categories uh you are in, whether it is PNC applicable to you, maybe it is independent smallholder standard applicable to you, or maybe supply chain certification is applicable to you. The next step is you need to get your house in order. You need to prepare yourself. Uh, you have to uh to build a system like SOPs, you prepare the staff uh for the training, prepare a traceability system, and even the grievance procedures. So basically, your business must look like it's got its act together. You know, everyone understands what they need to do, uh everything is in order, all the documentation management system is already in place before you start appointing your certification body. So uh please make sure that the CB you choose later on when to conduct the audit is holding an active accreditation status bias. Because uh we have another accreditation body that oversees the certification body's performance with uh Assurance Services International. So the CB will come to your place and audit your documents, uh the CB will inspect your areas, interview with your workers, with your stakeholders, and etc. It's like uh Sherlock's homes. They investigate here and there. Uh he asks uh to make sure that it is thoroughly done and well uh implemented. So, well, if you pass the audit, congratulations. Uh you will get certified and your certificate will appear on the website. Maybe you don't, or probably not yet passed, uh, you will get a non-conformities, uh, which is like uh report card comments uh for the non-conformities. You must fix them, you need to do the correction within the dedicated timeline in order for you to obtain the certificates. So, coming back to your question for that, how rigorous is the certification process? It is pretty serious, huh? The audit are annual, you know. We we conduct the audit on an annual basis. The sites are audited uh every year, workers are interviewed, stakeholders are interviewed, maybe there are people in your unit of certification also interviewed and checked. Your documents, your record are also verified during the audit, and any supply chain, any documents related to traceability will be tested uh on their traceability, whether it is forward or traceable backwards. You cannot fake it because uh RSPO has a robust complaints mechanism, open and public transparency, and even subprice check we are by ASI. We have an accreditation body, uh we call it a compliance assessment, or maybe an unannounced audit. So that was conducted by ASI to ensure that the practice are actually being implemented by our members, and also at the same time to verify that the certification body is doing a good job on the ground. So, this is the rule of uh ASR. One more interesting thing that RSPO have at the moment, Farah. We are just transitioned to a new RSPO IT platform, RSPO information system platform we call Prisma. So Prisma is actually a huge base foundation for many building blocks within the certification and assurance uh system within RSPO. So at the moment, all our tradings or our transactions of uh certified sustainable palm oil was done through the Prisma. And moving forwards, the certification activities from the audit planning, from the audit uh execution, any uh audit reporting, uh findings, addressing non-conformities will be everything inside the Prisma.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

That's a lot of information to take.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Sorry, you didn't promise to give me time.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, so it means it means that the the pretty label that we see on the packaging, it actually means there's a lot of work that's done um behind the scenes. And I think a lot of our audience also wonder so if you get RSPR certified and also you have annual check-ins, can RSP or certification be revoked or suspended if a member doesn't meet RSPO standards? Because a lot of there's a lot of sayings outside also that says that oh no, you know, this is greenwashing. So if after RSP certification is obtained by a company and then they can just stop the sustainability work that they're doing. So how does enforcement work uh in that sense?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Oh yes, uh it is possible for uh and that is where RSPO show, it is not just a pretty green level. RSPO certification is not a lifetime membership, but it's more like uh how to say, uh if I may say uh like a driving license. You have to follow the rules, or else you will kill someone, or maybe you are getting fined by the policeman. Or worse, uh if you make a serious uh mistake, you will lose it. You will lose your driving license. So every certified company, whether it is a plantation or product manufacturers or refinery, they need to go through annual certification audit by RSPO certification bodies every year. If during the audit they find serious problems, like illegal land clearing, for example, there are workers that you did not pay a proper salary based on your based on the regulations, or maybe you try to manipulate with the resources throughout the supply chain, well the certificate can be immediately suspended by the certification body. The other situation is uh if you cut out or if you make mess, if you mess with people, people will report you. RSPO have a very uh strong grievance mechanism. Everyone, like NGOs, communities, even employees can file a formal complaint. So the complaint panel will investigate the registered cases, and if proven that it is a mistake, RSPO can investigate and even revoke the certificate or suspend the membership. Or in the other situation, if a certified company misses its surveillance audit or refuse to cooperate, maybe you don't want to accept uh the certification audit for some reason. There's also a good ground for suspension or termination of certificates. So, yes, other people have a teeth to suspend. It's not just a short shot, you can print the label, uh put the commitment uh statement on your website. But there are really a solid assurance framework tied to the standards, a robust certification system with a real checking on the ground, real consequences and transparency. So if you mess up, you get called out. But if you own it, fix it and improve, RSPO will give you the path path. So that is uh in a simple way to explain uh the rules and robustness of the RSP additional system. Uh I hope for I didn't give the wrong perspective to the audience today. Just to make sure that people know that RSPO is just not a medium for cleaning your previous scenes, you know? Through its full mechanism. So that's how I look at it.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yeah, and I think it's it's giving a fair chance for maybe corporations that want to do better for their sustainability journey because sustainability isn't just like one one off and then you're done. Sometimes you know people make mistakes, so it's the same with corporations. So it's great that RSPO provides that space for companies also to learn from their mistakes. Yep. Um, and going to the conversation of RSPO labels, uh, we are seeing more and more brands actually are using the RSPO label on their packaging. How do you think we can encourage more brands to proudly display this label on their products?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, well, uh very uh interesting thing because the certification unit is also taking care of the trademarks, respectful trademarks, uh, and that is where the labels are being managed and also the rules on the market communication and claims are also being implemented. So, well, of course, uh brands they love to flex based on the demand from their client. If they are doing the right things, they want to show it off. You know, uh it's like you do a correct thing, you want to show people, hey, I'm doing well. This is what I've done, this is what I'm doing. So, RSPO label is like a sustainability batch of owners. And the more consumers recognize it, the more people will ask for it. The more brands will also proudly wear it. So, even though thousands of companies are RSP certified nowadays, we're still not seeing RSPO label on as many products as we could. And that's really a missed opportunity for us and also for the consumers. When the consumers start asking, hey, is this RSPO certified? Then tomorrow suddenly the label becomes a selling point. It's not a boring detail anymore. So because now uh the consumers start uh, I mean, probably they're not fully aware of RSPO label yet. It's like adding uh sugar-free or maybe low cholesterol or not tested on animal on your packaging. Once consumers care, the brands and the label will follow. So the RSPO label is a simple, yet it is a powerful way for brands to show that they are sourcing responsibly. For consumers, it is a quick visual cue. So when they go to a shop, they don't need to decode compact supply chain details. They already know. So this is certified, this is mixed, this is credit, so they already know what it is. So, how can we encourage more brands to use the RSPO label? Well, big retailers like uh maybe supermarkets, maybe pharmacies, or maybe online stores, they have serious influence on this genre. If one day they say we prefer products with RSPO labels, guess what? Tomorrow the brands will be running after RSPO and fighting to comply with RSPO requirements and try to put uh the RSPO label on their products. It's a domino effect. And RSPO should keep engaging the retailers directly. So once the consumer gets it, the label becomes really a valuable asset. It's not just a decoration to the packaging. So it's like wearing a marathonary t-shirt. Uh if you did the work, you should be proud to show it. So not me, like, I'm not a runner anyway. So it's not for it's not possible for me to run either. But Big Blind, they just need to know that we, the consumers, they are watching. They care and they will choose the product that carries the RSPO bash. Because that bash means better palm oil for people and the planets. So that's how I look at the how we can improve the label.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

As a person that works in RSPO certification, what is one thing that you wish more people understood about RSPO certification and the label they see and products? Because you are in a unique situation where you are in the certification body, but you are also consumer. So you would understand, you know, some of the choices that was being made when you know you per uh when you purchase something. So what is one thing that you wish more people understand about the certification itself?

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Yeah, I want to say that it's not this, it's not just a logo, it is more than that. It represents a real action behind the scenes. So, as I mentioned earlier, we have respected the people, we have respected the pillar uh of the planets, we've respected the pillar of the uh prosperity, and there are smallholders that we have incentivized throughout the sustainability production of the palm oil. So it represents a real action behind it. So when you see a responsible label on a product, it means that the palm oil use was sourced according to a strict environmental and social standards. That includes things like uh no refrigeration, maybe no exploitation of workers or communities. Uh, it has been produced uh through a transparent uh communication and also it is traceable throughout the supply chains. It also means that the company behind that product has made a commitment, not just for a better sourcing, but also to being audited, to being verified and held accountable for any mistake that they have done. So that means they are putting their full commitment to own or to earn the certification and also to be eligible to put the RSPO label on the product. So it's not just a simple logo. There are hard work, they are real effort, they are real commitments attached to it, and that is the reason why they are able to put the label on it. So this logo is a signal that palm oil can be produced sustainably and there are brands out there choosing to do better. You know, we just need just need more people, more consumers, more users to recognize it, ask for it and support it. Because every time someone chooses a product before SPO label, they are sending a message and helping to shift the market towards a more sustainable palm oil. So thank you very much, Farah, for the opportunities and RSPO. Uh thanks to the great uh listeners uh as well uh for tuning in to PomPod and Gooba.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Okay, thank you so much, Sazali, for uh gracing the palm pod. Uh, I think today's listeners learn a lot about our specification. I know I do. Um, there's a lot of elements that go beyond labels. There's a lot of work that is being done behind the scene to ensure that people can make great choices when it comes to buying sustainably and uh understanding what it means by buying uh products with RSPO labels such as RSP certified and such. So thank you so much to Zalis, not just for today, but also for the work that you do and the team in RSP Certification to ensure that our palm oil um production is more sustainable globally. Thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you very much to you too.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the palm pot on your favorite podcasting platforms. Feel free to share your feedback for our next episode. I was speaking to our guest, Shazali Abdullah, head of certification, RSPO, and I'm Fararoom, and this is the PomPod.