Episode 14 - Peatlands 101 with PM.Haze

Peatlands are one of nature’s oldest and most powerful carbon sinks, quietly supporting climate stability, biodiversity, and communities around the world. Yet when degraded, they become a major driver of fires, emissions, and haze.

In this episode of The Palm Pod, we explore Peatlands 101, why peatlands matter, how their degradation fuels fires and haze, and why protecting them is critical for a sustainable future. From climate impacts to governance and accountability, this conversation unpacks what’s really at stake.

Host Fara Rom is joined by Beatrice Baquero-Salah, Manager, Partnerships & Outreach at PM.Haze, a leading voice in peatland and haze advocacy based in Singapore.

Tune in for a clear, grounded conversation on peatlands as nature’s OG carbon sinks and what it will take to protect them.

Learn more about sustainable palm oil at www.rspo.org.

*The views and opinions expressed on The Palm Pod are solely those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect those of The Palm Pod or the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO).

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

You are now listening to the palm pod, brought to you by RSPO, a global partnership to make palm oil sustainable. Hi, I'm Fora Room, and you're tuning into the Palm Pod where we host engaging discussions, expert insights, and industry updates on sustainable palm oil, guiding consumers and businesses to make better choices for the planet. So we're in the year 2026. In the beginning of February, we actually have a really special day, which is called World Wetlands Day, and it kind of ties up to the conversation that we're gonna have today. And specifically, we're gonna talk about peatlands. So peatlands are kind of the nature's OG carbon sinks, if I can say. They're quietly doing a lot of heavy lifting for our climate and ecosystems. And if you look at tropical regions, peatlands are low-lying forests with naturally high water levels because the soil stays wet and low in oxygen. So plants break down very, very slowly and allowing thick layers of organic material to build up over time. And I know this is a bit technical. We're gonna have someone really special talking with us today. But to kickstart, I want you to think of peatlands as soil like a giant wet sponge where they're packed with old plant material that holds a lot of water and stores a huge amount of carbon underground. And when it's left intact, they help prevent flooding and keep carbon locked in the ground. In this episode, we're doing a quick peatlands 101: why they matter, why protecting them matters, and what happens when we actually get it wrong. So I'm joined today by Beatrice Bakero Sala from PM Haze, who's deep in the work on peatland protection and haze in the region, in Southeast Asia region, and she's also one of the youth speakers, the very first youth at RT2025 Meeting Stage Talk that happens last year in Malaysia. So Beatrice, so good to have you here. Thank you for uh thanks for having me. Okay, so before we begin, we want to know more about you. So please share us about who Beatrice Baccherasala is and your role at PM Hayes.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Sure. So hi everyone to the listeners. Uh my name is Beatrice and I'm originally from Bogota, Colombia, actually, but I've been based in Singapore for around a decade now. I work at PM Haze, like you mentioned. It's a nonprofit based here in Singapore, but we have a regional focus as well. And I've been working as the partnerships and outreach manager. Since I started this job over two years ago now, uh, I've been learning a lot about peatlands, of course, about tropical forests, nature restoration, air pollution, of course, haze. Um, but I also want to mention that I'm not an expert in ecology and I'm also not, you know, like a health professional. Uh, but I'm just very happy to share my thoughts as a young environmentalist and as a human rights advocate today.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

That's great. So, for listeners who may be new to this, can you help explain the basic of things? Um, what are wetlands and where do peatlands fit into that picture?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Sure, yes. So, like you already mentioned, they're giant sponges basically. Wetlands are ecosystems, and you know, by the name, wetlands, um, they are saturated with water, sometimes permanently or seasonally. They act like these big natural sponges, and like you you said, they're OG urban sinks as well. So they store the water. Um, they also help improve water quality sometimes. Some examples, people probably know mangroves, and there's a lot of talk about mangroves right now, and and they're considered as well uh wetland ecosystems, coastal wetland ecosystems. There's also swamps, and of course, peatlands. And many communities around the world rely on these ecosystems for their food, their livelihood, coastal protection, and that's why a lot of people are talking about mangroves nowadays. So, so yeah, wetlands are amazing. They play a huge role in in climate regulation, like you mentioned, and and the flood control. And so peatlands are just a subset of wetlands. They're a type of wetland. And yes, there's they're basically huge sponges or or domes built up of uh organic material that has been accumulating over thousands and thousands of years. And so because that peat stays below water, waterlogged, it's just locking away massive amounts of carbon that that has been accumulating over yeah, thousands of years. So they're one of the most carbon-rich ecosystems. And in Southeast Asia, actually, we have 50 to 60 percent of the world's tropical peatlands. So we we're really blessed to have these OG climate allies with us.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

So, why are peatlands considered one of the most important but yet overlooked ecosystems in this region, like Southeast Asia and even globally?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

There's different types of peatlands here in in Southeast Asia. We have mostly the tropical peatlands. And like I mentioned before, I joined PM Hayes, I didn't even know what peatlands are. People in in Singapore don't tend to know what they are either, even though we're surrounded by them. And they're they don't cover a lot of the land globally. They they cover around 3% of the land. And yet, uh, these peatlands that only cover 3%, they store more carbon than all of the forests combined in the world. So that's just to show the scale of their role in uh climate regulation. And uh in Southeast Asia, like I mentioned, there we have around 50 to 60 percent. They're the largest, also most carbon dense. When I went to visit the peatlands, actually in my first year, we can tell, you know, you're walking on peatlands and they're kind of spongy, they're supposed to be moist. Um, and we would learn about how to measure the peat depth as well. And on average, it can go down to three meters. But sometimes, you know, there's research done where the peat depth can exceed 15 to 20 meters. So it's insane the amount of, you know, organic material that's uh locked in underground. And so, yeah, they act as these natural climate regulators. Of course, they support a lot of biodiversity, including the endangered species. You know, people talk about orangutans a lot, but even smaller ones. I learned that um they hold the little colorful beta fish as well, the wild beta fish, um, live sometimes in these swamps. And so, yeah, but sadly, despite their important role, these have been like the last frontier where, you know, humans through different activities have been draining these peatlands. Um, they've been converting them and uh, well, just ignoring them in our in our land use planning. And the issue is once these peatlands are degraded, well, they do the opposite. Like you mentioned, they start to become sources of emissions, and of course, fires are more recurrent instead of being those carbon sinks.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

I think you've already kind of transitioned to the next question, actually, because I think PM Haze has long highlighted the link between peatland degradation and haze. So, can you walk us through how damaged peatlands become a major source of fires?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah, so again, the link is not obvious sometimes, especially if if we're not working with peatlands, but healthy peatlands are supposed to be wet. They're supposed to be covered in water, they're naturally resistant to fire for that same reason. But once we start draining them, um, you know, humans build canals to start taking the water out to be able to plant, for example, for agricultural purposes mostly, the water table starts to uh lower itself and it dry it starts to dry out, dry out the peak, basically. Um, and sun, of course, starts hitting the peat, and that's when it uh, you know, emissions, instead of absorbing emissions, it's releasing emissions, and the peat becomes, of course, super flammable because it's just dry organic waste. Uh, and any little spark can just spark a fire. So sometimes these fires can burn super deep below the surface and it makes it really hard to identify and uh extinguish. And they can smolder, you know, for weeks or even months sometimes, and and they're called uh smoldering fires. And so these fires are the really tricky ones to put out, and they release a lot of smoke for that same reason because it's really dense, moist organic material. And so the haze we had in the past mostly came from the the burning of peatlands, um, and that dense haze that came with the particulate matter that affects our health came from the burning of all of that carbon that was basically being released, right? So the result, of course, it's uh it's health crises, um, the regional air pollution that we face, and uh, of course, the large amounts of greenhouse gas emissions that are released. So they're a carbon vault, basically, and and once they're degraded and uh they lose those that potential to hold all that carbon underwater, then uh yeah, you you open up a Pandora's box, basically.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

So you also mentioned about like how sometimes the relationship between peatland degradation and haze is not really vague sometimes. So maybe can you just explain what are the biggest misconceptions that you've heard uh over and over again about the causes of transboundary haze? And if these are misconceptions, uh what are the real threats facing peatlins? Maybe something that is like related to peatlands though.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah, and and it's funny we're talking about haze again in Singapore. Actually, it's it's been a while, and for the past couple of weeks, you know, haze has been felt in Singapore. Again, um, there's a few hotspots around the region. I think it was coming from Malaysia, uh, and others in the northern Mekkon region. There's a few misconceptions. First, about the cause. So, yeah, two in one, I would say. So the the haze, some people think that it's mainly caused by small farmers, for example, or that it's just, you know, accidental fires. But, you know, these are very man-made issues, but it's not necessarily the smallholders that are responsible. These are the scale of haze that we saw in the region was actually due to the large-scale peatland drainage and industrial land clearing practices, not just the smallholder burning that uh happens and it's very localized still. Of course, we could talk about weak enforcement, but yeah, companies are not supposed to be using some of these damaging practices anymore, like the slash and burn that was very common and which led to a lot of the 2015 big haze episode. And so, again, the the large-scale drainage of these pithans, which is really hard to reverse, of course, and and just not being able to keep them wet anymore, which makes a fire sometimes inevitable. So, so yeah. Of course, major palm oil companies, because it's often been tied to palm oil, they have eliminated a lot of these practices. Of course, there was intense scrutiny, there were stricter regulations that came in, and of course, certifications like RSPO that have set, you know, very clear policies on how to cultivate palm oil, for example, and and um other forms of agricultural practices that are more regenerative, yeah, put ecological balance at the forefront. So, so yeah, I know, for example, RSPO has the no deforestation, no peat, no exploitation policy in place. And those are very important, you know, because again, it's not just smallholder farmers, but it was actually very large-scale fires that were just due to mismanagement of the land. The other misconception I would say is people think that it's a seasonal thing, not so much in Singapore, but in other places. You know, we talk about it as a it's a dry season problem or it's a weather problem. And yes, of course, because we have uh dry season, fires are more likely to occur, of course. Um, they're usually active during the June, October, dry monsoon months. But even now, I mean it's February and we're seeing it also with the northeast monsoon. So I would say it's not a weather problem itself, but it will also be even amplified by climate change, right? Which will increase the the risk of uh drought, of course, and uh fire intensity. So it's yeah, definitely not seasonal. It this is a man-made issue. I think if we start to calling it to call it something seasonal, it it we we sort of start to normalize it. And definitely this shouldn't be something that we normalize. This is an ecological crisis, it's definitely preventable. So, so yeah. And with that, maybe a third misconception. Um, and it's that sometimes we like to say that humans are like a plague, you know, that we're destructive, that you know, it's just better for us to uh disappear or or to leave the forest alone. But with that, I also want to say that it's that's definitely not true, and that's a misconception, you know. We can we can play a very positive role. You know, we could talk to indigenous peoples around the world and and they would tell you otherwise, you know, they've been protectors of the land for centuries. Um, so we can have a net positive effect too. We can help the land regenerate faster, uh, which has been the role that PM Haze has been trying to play. So not just leaving the forest alone, you know, and and there's a big discussion around conservation practices there. But yes, we we as humans can also play a role in helping ecosystems regenerate and recover much faster. And that's where I think tech innovation, for example, or carbon finance products, which is another huge topic right now, that's where, you know, money should be going to support these restoration efforts.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

So I think you actually touched this already because then we want to look at if degradation has happened, then what's next? Like what is the next step or the actions that we can take to maybe reverse it or improve it to a better state, right? So from PMH's perspective, like you can elaborate a bit more since you already mentioned a little bit of that. So, what does effective peatlin protection and restoration actually look like? And maybe if you can elaborate a little bit about what company can do, what companies can do outside or what smallholders can do.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

So, yeah, it and that's where I say I'm not an ecological expert once again or a hydrological expert. But and yes, and and getting peatlands to a pristine state again is impossible once they've been degraded. But definitely what uh we can try to do is try to mitigate further degradation and make sure that the communities can still, you know, live off of these peatlins by switching to maybe less destructive land clearing practices, for example, if because a lot of the times it's it's you know an economic issue as well. Communities rely on this land and uh you know, sometimes palm oil was the only alternative. So at PM Hays, we've been trying to support uh, you know, the development of other forms of livelihoods, sustainable livelihoods. We're working on different agroforestry projects with the communities um switching from palm oil to other crops potentially that could grow better, because uh, you know, peep peatlands were never meant to be, you know, ground to plant anything. I mean, the ground is very acidic. It's very hard to grow things on peatlands in the first place, but communities still rely on it. So we have to support those people first. Part of the protection is also making sure that there are no more fires, of course. So we need to monitor that fire risk, we need to monitor how the land is being used. Um, so with PM Hays, we started working on a drone project actually and brought drones down so that the community could start doing that fire monitoring and mitigation more efficiently. And we saw that this also really motivated them to receive this sort of um support and resources. And this was based on ground partnerships as well that we established. So monitoring the fire risk, um, supporting those alternative livelihoods. And of course, the restoration is a very lengthy process, you know, from taking care of the nurseries where we grow the saplings to the planting and everything has to be timed perfectly. Um so yeah, it's a really long process, and and sometimes people don't see, you know, the amount of work that truly goes into restoration. Yeah, it's it's not a one to two year thing. It's actually 10 to even further down. And speaking of carbon projects, you know, sometimes they require 40-year commitments from communities, you know, to make sure that the land that they're restoring will remain, you know, functional and and will actually be preserved. So this requires, yeah, a lot of collaboration, which is what we've been trying to work on at PM Haze as well, especially if Hayes is a regional issue that affects, you know, all of us. Yeah. So that's just a few thoughts on our work.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

So I think a lot of core work that PM Haze is doing, basically the core value is actually to work with the communities that you know that that is protecting the Patlin and maybe like they depend on their livelihood in the Patlins and the focus on the initiatives that is, for example, conservation and such should be centered around them. So that's what I get from um what you shared. Just to segue, and just a quick fun fact Beatrice and I met through Pam Hayes Repeat program, um, which uh Beatrice led and focuses on building Peatland knowledge among young people. So I think uh this is also another segment of communities of people that you're targeting. And can you tell us a bit about the program and how it's gone so far and maybe what's next for the young people that you're engaging with?

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Yeah, of course. Um this was a flagship program that we started running in 2024 called Repeat. So it's uh an expedition to experience peatlands and it's for youth uh specifically for youth from uh I believe it's 18 to 35 years old, from Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore for now. We we are hoping to expand geographically at some point. And it's precisely to, you know, to bring these youths to visit peatlands, to see what the restoration process looks like, to draw the ties and to see the big picture of everything we've been talking about, you know, why is climate uh a thing? How is health related to this? Why is it so important to protect these peatlands in the first place? Um so it's been a 10-day expedition program and plus some months of additional engagement that we require from the youth. So it's not just, you know, a tourist uh go and observe and leave, but we do expect them to, you know, think about projects that would support the communities or their own, you know, in their own cities and and countries as well. So it's basically, yeah, 10 days plus four to five months of additional engagement. And it's been amazing to see how they stay connected. You know, it's a group of 20 very privileged youths that we select, and we've received many applications in the past two iterations. Um, so it's also really nice to see that there is a lot of interest from the youths in in the region to get involved in in climate and environmental work. But often, you know, there's not accessible opportunities for them. So Repeat is actually fully funded for youth. We wanted it to be uh a regional program as well, where there's this intercultural uh exchange happening because, you know, to solve a lot of these transboundary issues like pays or like climate change, there has to be yeah, cross-cultural collaboration and transnational dialogue happening. So that's why repeat is a regional program. Is that it's a 10-day program because you know, these issues we can't explain everything in one day or one sitting, but it has to be really processed and it has, you know, they have to sit with everything they're seeing and uh reflect on on everything we we cover. Um so it's an intense program, adventurous program. Put out a lot of really nice videos recently on our latest expedition. So for the future, we're hoping to have these expeditions take place in in the site where we are actually working on people and restoration in Indonesia. And we'll be launching a call for applications around March. So so yeah, if anyone is interested, youth from from that, the countries I mentioned, interested in just getting their hands dirty and taking action together, then that could be a great program for them.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

That's excellent. And I think I want to mention one thing. What's really interesting about this program is the people that you recruited, the participants, are actually from different backgrounds. When I say different, it's it's like they're journalists, they're like researchers. So it's it's really interesting to see and how people are getting together despite their background, despite their expertise. And this is an excellent, excellent initiative from PFPS. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Thank you for we also did that on purpose because we know that you know it's not just the biologists or the environmental studies people that have to be working on this, but it it's really everyone that can have an impact and has a role to play. So, yes, the journalists were there, we had artists, we had the environmental studies people, but we also had uh engineers. Uh, the first iteration, we had some finance people. So, yeah, it really is all hands on deck. Uh, so we wanted to sort of mimic what that collaboration should look like in the real world as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

I agree, and this is what climate change is about. Like, if you want me to get climate change, it doesn't just require biologists, it requires every single person. So I think it's it's like a again a good transition to the next question because I think it's really related to what the initiative, uh the repeat initiative is about. Why should people who live far from peatlands, like urban communities, consumers that don't really, how to say, directly benefit from you know protecting peatlands and such care about protecting peatlands?

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. And it's often what we're struggling with at PM Haze in in Singapore, especially we feel very distant, very sheltered, and uh, I mean, thankfully we we haven't had big haze coming. But it's only when it becomes visible or it starts to impact us directly that we try to, you know, look for for solutions and causes. But yeah, so we have that saying, right, out of sight, out of mind, and and that very much applies uh to us here in Singapore. But again, going back to the role that peatlands play in in climate change, and climate change is going to affect everyone, you know, through the heat waves becoming more recurrent, storms, rising sea levels. So it should already start to um scare us for for that simple reason. Peatlands need to be kept pristine, they need to be protected. If they're degraded, we should be doing everything we can to restore them because yeah, it helps to mitigate the carbon emissions and support the global climate goals. should all be working towards. So yeah, protecting peatlands, restoring them has actually been singled out as as uh effective solutions, right, for to draw down carbon. Um there's a really great organization I like called Project Drawdown. And you know they have a huge library of uh solutions to mitigate and address climate change and protecting peatlands is one of them. So so yeah not only the climate aspect but of course uh haze which is not just uh ecological but of course our our health is is affected the healthcare system takes a big hit and again we've had haze in Singapore for the past two weeks and I already saw uh an article actually saying that the doctors were seeing a surge in uh respiratory cases here as as haze is persisting. So so yeah people start to get uh worried and and once the haze does come back then we we should be prepared so it's better to to be yeah be prepared and be informed uh now rather than later and of course as consumers and again in Singapore uh huge consumer country and huge consumer of of palm oil and paper and other goods that are often linked to the peatland conversion we were talking about so us as consumers we definitely have a a role as well we you know we can we can drive corporate change we can switch to sustainable palm oil we can look for those products that are um you know peat free that are that come from peat free supply chains so so yeah definitely our our choices also matter and uh yeah again it's a really difficult question to answer uh why should people care sometimes you know we shouldn't spend too much effort trying to convince the the denial the those that are in denial but uh I I do believe that uh at some point the issue will just be right on our in our faces right and uh climate change will become the an imperative for for everyone and will become a a cross cutting issue across all of the industries so that's when it will really become easier to convince people to join this cause but yeah for now of course overall it's it's not just an environmental issue it's a public health issue like I mentioned economic as well right because uh the the economy sort of stops if there's haze and you can't move or children can't go to schools. And of course it's a climate justice issue because the it's the communities on the ground that are most affected and and have often the least resources to adapt um and bounce back. So so that's why I care and I hope that yeah me sharing all of this will will also get people uh curious about learning more about our work about peatlands um about the importance of nature-based solutions of course and yeah uh want to join our our our movement I think it's really important when you mentioned about the intersectionality of climate change and how important it is for us to get climate justice because again if I believe if everyone started to care it means that I feel like it's a bit too late.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

But they should um but we don't want it to be too late until we can't do anything to reverse things that's already been done. But we actually are already at the end of our episode but we have one last question for you Beatrice okay so if there is one lesson from the Hayes and Peatland crisis that policymakers, companies and the public must learn to avoid repeating this cycle what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Wow that's a tough last question but but I think bringing it back to it it's a regional issue that requires collaboration. It requires sometimes making sacrifices sometimes yeah I don't like to use that framing but it's not necessarily a sacrifice if what we're working towards is a livable future on this earth. So yeah collaboration putting you know the communities first and not just prophets first of course yeah and and on your last point you mentioned that if it's too late and and definitely I think it's never too late we shouldn't even ask that question at some some conferences they like to ask that those questions is you know is it too late to take action like there's no there's no choice like it it can't be too late.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

You know there's too much at stake um so the only choice uh and the only option is to move forward and and to uh save as much as we can and protect as many peatlins as we can now okay I feel like I wish we can speak a bit more about this because I think it is really a really important conversation that we should have and not everyone especially the young people know about how important peatlins are for our future until the things that happen like for example haze and such so you can access a PM Haze website and get to know more about the activities that they have and learn a bit more about peatlins but um to end this episode I would like to thank Beatrice thank you so much for our episode and I hope this is something that is um beneficial of course for our audience and I hope a lot more people are more aware of what Peatlins is about and the benefits of protecting our peatlands so thank you so much Beatrice thanks for uh thank you and yes all the youth work with our youth work with it we're ready okay so don't forget to rate review and subscribe to the palm pot on your favorite podcasting platforms feel free to share your feedback for our next episode and I was speaking to our guest Beatriceala manager partnerships and outreach at PM Hays and I am Faro and this is the palm potato