Episode 15 - Leading Change: Women in Sustainable Palm Oil

From Indonesia to Ecuador, Sabah to Sierra Leone, women have played an important role in building a more sustainable palm oil industry around the world. 

In fact, women make up about 21% of the workforce across 540 RSPO Units of Certification. Around 15% and 25% hold management and administration roles in certified mills and estates, respectively.

In this International Women’s Day special episode of The Palm Pod, host Fara Rom sits down with Kertijah Abdul Kadir, Senior Manager of Smallholder Programmes at the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO). We will explore her sustainability journey and get to know more about her inspiring work supporting smallholder communities. 

We’ll do a deep dive on the vital role of women in the palm oil sector and why their participation is essential for a more inclusive and sustainable industry.

Learn more about sustainable palm oil at www.rspo.org.

*The views and opinions expressed on The Palm Pod are solely those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect those of The Palm Pod or the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO).

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

You are now listening to the Palm Pot, brought to you by RSPO, the global partnership to make palm oil sustainable. Hi, I'm Faroom, and you're tuning in to the Palm Pot, where we host engaging discussions, expert insights, and industry updates on sustainable palm oil, guiding consumers and businesses to make better choices for the planet. As we've just celebrated International Women's Day on March 8th and the global celebration of women's history throughout the month of March, it's a great opportunity for us at RSPO to discuss the gendered lens of the palm oil industry, examining sustainable palm oil even more closely. And for today's episode, we celebrate the contributions of women across the sustainable palm oil sector from smallholder communities to leadership rules. And I'm so excited to have our guest speaker today because joining us today is Kratija Abdul Qadir, or better known as Jang, the senior manager of smallholder programs at Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil or RSPO, who will share her journey working in the sector, her experiences supporting smallholders, and why women's participation is essential to advancing sustainability. Jang, welcome to the show. Thank you, Farah. Thank you for having me. Can you briefly introduce yourself and tell us about your role at RSPO?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Sure. I'm a Sabahan, originated from Sandakan. And I joined RSPO since November 2017 as the smallholder manager. Specifically that time was under the lively group program. And then in 2021, I took the role as a programmatic manager. And the role is basically to support our regional and country manager in providing technical and advisory information to smallholder globally.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Great. So you had extensive experience working on sustainability and protecting both the environment and communities, even before your time at the roundtable on sustainable palm oil or SPO. Could you share a bit of your journey and how did it all begin and what led you into sustainability and specifically making the palm oil sector sustainable?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, sure. So I studied science forestry back in university time, and the exposure to nature and conservation has embedded in me, I guess, since then. My short time as a research assistant and then part-time postgraduate student in UM has basically strengthened my interest in sustainability. When I was with WWF Malaysia from 2003 to 2011, the work that I manage has exposed me to the practicality of groundwork when it comes to conservation. If you ever come across the name Kinabatangan Corridor of Life, I was part of the team that initiated the program, which was focusing on forest restoration. Then I gained more learnings when I managed the relief program, an initiative funded by Nestle Malaysia. It was a very interesting experience as to me personally, because I was in NGO platform before. Then I'm in the side of the commercial company like Nestle, who contributed to conservation. My work in WF and Nestle, I think, have uh were all driven by the vision of sustainable palm oil practices. Hence, I had the opportunity to learn and expose myself on this aspect.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

So, how does the role in supporting smallholder communities relate to the experience that you have? And maybe from your previous experience or also the current experience? How do you see your role assist smallholders and in which way?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

So I do not have that direct relationship with the smallholder per se on the ground. And I basically work with the regional and country manager. So my role would be supporting them in giving the information, be it on technical or advisory when it comes to RSPO standards. Imagine there is a group in Indonesia who wanted to be RSPO member and who wanted to be certified. They don't have any knowledge. This is from zero up to certification. So the the person that will be supporting them from RSPO would be the country manager. And my role would be supporting this country manager to provide all the information from supports on the training and till membership and then until certification. So the direct liaison will be the country manager in Indonesia. But my role to support the country manager would be giving all the information technically and advisory related to RSPO standards, which touched on training, membership, audit, and also financial support. So these are all the role I'm providing to support the group, this country managers, so that they can give all this information to the group so that they will have the full information on what they are going to venture in.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

And I guess from your experience as well, um you also can I say see that palm oil or agriculture in general is a male-dominated industry. So from your roles and also your journey, what has your experience been like as a woman working in this field? Is there any challenges because of your gender that you go through or, you know, interesting part about being a woman in this agricultural industry?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

It has been interesting indeed, especially during my time managing projects on the field sites. There were times when I was working in Kerabatangan, I felt I was being underestimated just because I was a woman. But I was lucky to be supported by a team of trusted and reliable guys, local guys there. So it has been a great experience for me. I'm saying this because the underestimation probably comes from due to the reason of physical. I may not be strong on the field, but with my team that time, they provide that support while I give the project level thinking. I would say we basically we build a great team because we cover each other. Me with my vision and project level oversight and the local team with your practical knowledge. So it we become a great team. So I'm not saying I was good alone, but I was good because of the support of the team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

From back then, when you started your involvement in the environmental cause to now, have you seen more women entering the sector? From your perspective.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yes, uh, from my perspective, I've noticed that, and to me, it's a great progress. I'm not saying this is about gender equality sentiment or anything. What I'm saying is over time, maybe because in terms of workforce, many women from the those those graduated from university, compared to men, getting more and more in number. Yeah. So the joint joining workforce in the oil palm uh industry, the entry point, the recruitment happened more to women as well. Not just at the office level, the one in the bandar, but also in the estate. I see that coming in. But from my observation, that is probably still missing or still very lacking, is at the estate at the like I haven't met during I I recall during my time, I haven't met estate manager that is a woman. Usually all are men. So during my time, when I meet all the estate managers in most uh companies around Kirjabatangan, all were men. So imagine if we took a photo together after we do any event. Me alone, a woman, standing there, and then all behind me, all together with me are men. So but I feel proud because I represent women in that situation. I represent women, and I was in the position where I lead a team to do a conservation work, a forest restoration along the reparian of Kinabatangan. And basically, we we're just not doing it one-off, we're also doing the monitoring, looking after the tree together with the plantation company, together with the estate manager. So I have to build the rapport with this estate manager to ensure that the monitoring goes on, the trees are being taken care of and all those things. So that is very interesting, in my opinion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

So I think we can say that now in 2026, there's a lot more doors that are open for women to hold different roles, not just in the office, but also on site. On site, yes. Yeah. So the opportunities are a lot more less gendered compared to before. Maybe there's a shift of perspective. So what are some of the different roles that women hold across the palm sector that you've met, maybe you come across, and if there, if there's any particular story that stands out based on your encounter with them that has influenced how you work in the sustainable palm oil space?

SPEAKER_01 8:51

So, my experience of encountering women in these plantation companies, probably I can say during during my time on on site, yeah, in WWF and Nestle, I I mentioned just now always the stakeholders that I meet are men because they are the who I met was the estate manager or the basically those working on the estate, the worker and everything. So most of them are men. If there is any women, they will be at the admin at the site office. That's it. Very uh admin world. But when I join RSPO, there I start to meet all these women who are key decision makers. And that is very interesting and it interests me because we can see how women in that position, how they are being vocal, how they make decision, how they're being objective in when they present their idea or opinion. And it gives me the inspiration that I I wish I can be like that. So people uh during my early times in RSPO, when I was exposed in RSPO, I haven't joined RSPO that time. When I was in WBF and also in Nestle, I've exposed with RSPO, but I I was I didn't join yet. So I've met people like Petramakers, I've met people like Pat George, I've met people like I I can't remember her name, but he she was the uh staff of RSPO as well. Danielle. I think she was now the, or maybe she left already for the Ban Sukro. So these women amaze me in terms of when they give their opinion and ideas about the industry, key decision makers. So they are in the position where they can influence how a company being governed, the policy of the company. I'm not sure whether they influence in terms of influencing the policy of involving women in in their policy, uh anyway. But being in that position to me already could give the influence to how plantation are practicing sustainable oil palm on site. You see, it's a top-down thing. So I I haven't met people um in the meat yet. It's good that they are already top there, but what is missing to me, as I said just now, is the one is on site as well. Because these are also the ones that monitor, imagine if I can put it, uh put an example. One of our standards is about uh non-discrimination of gender, having a facility for uh, I mean, when it comes to you, if you have women worker, you have to make sure you have a proper toilet, you have to have a proper place for them to rest and everything. Yeah, who's going to make sure of this on the ground? Imagine if the estate manager is a man. Maybe if they are considerate, maybe they will think of a woman would need this, a woman would need that. But imagine if at the estate manager is an actual woman, there can be more empathy, probably, for the lack of better word, to provide more appropriate facility. Because there is a difference between providing just as is or sufficient. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Now there's a lot more women that are seen in the sustainable partner sector to be makers. Yes, top position, decision makers. We want the door to be opened more towards um those who are on site. Yes, correct.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

But if I can add, but in order to do that, I foresee that companies, especially companies, then have to really look at the requirement that they open in the recruitment. Because I know to attract women's workforce into being an estate manager is another thing. They can, well, salary may be one, but also as an estate manager, you have to live in the estate. You have to stay in the in the quarters, it is away from your home in the town and everything. So it's so maybe the general perception is maybe men can stand to be away like that on a bit with basic facility, but can women do that? So maybe there are things that need to be revised to attract more uh women's workforce into becoming estate manager. So I can understand that uh possibility, but yeah, if the policy at the top level has is saying that we must say, like, for example, having a quota, uh a certain percentage of our estate manager should be women, for example. Yeah, just saying out loud. So from top, from the policy level, imagine how it will spill down into practicality on the ground.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

And also once the policy is there, of course, having uh percentage quotas of women in the workforce in a particular role might be a bit challenging because then if it's just percentage, it's just percentage, right? Um also understanding that what are the basic needs of the people that we're trying to encourage to be part of the role as well. And I think it's also looking at not just comparing men and women in that sense, but if we are giving a really basic facilities for men, maybe we have to rethink back on the facilities that we're giving or benefits that we're giving them. Maybe it means that it's not enough to have like a holistic, you know, life, like a more fulfilling life in that sense. So going back to smallholders, from your point of view, how does empowering women smallholders or farmers or workers help strengthen the communities and livelihoods?

SPEAKER_01 14:23

So to me, we we all know that women are always the heart of a home in general. So talking about communities, every community in each community that forms a community is a household, isn't it? So usually as a household, we'll have women as the center. So the the mother basically, the one that cooks, the one that prepares the home, the one that that prepares everything for the food and everything. So put it as they're being the manager of our home. Imagine they are the manager of the farm. How it will be managed to ensure that the farm will yield, the farm will be in a good condition with input, with scheduled harvesting, all those things. So things will be more organized. So I just simply say that it things will probably be organized if uh women manage the the farm. So it's it's to me it's simple, simple as that. Like it you just imagine they are structured, they are organized, a home, and they are structured and organized farm. So things will be more organized. So I just wanted to give, not to say the example, but just to let you know that within our certified group globally, of course, uh majority of the group managers are men. Majority, yeah? But we also have women group managers. For example, in Indonesia, we have out of the 100 plus certified group, independent smallholder group, we have six independent smallholder groups that their group manager are women. And in Thailand, out of the 39 certified smallholder groups that we have, 17 of them are having group managers as women. That's almost it's almost a half. Almost. I was like amazed when I know this number because the last time I knew was the number was also small, a handful. When I reached out to our manager in Thailand and she was telling me that we have 70, I was like, wow, that's quite a lot. That's almost half of the number. And immediately, my impression of the independent small holder group in Thailand is they are good with uh business skill, interpretive, entrepreneurship skill. They are good with that, both men and women. That's why they they they basically know how to do the calculation to make sure that their farm will yield. They will get some income on all those things. So imagine these are also with the women. Yeah. So that is what I would hope to see to the rest of the other country that we have our smallholder group as well. I know there is, but we don't know whether they are giving the opportunity also, can we do we don't know whether they're giving the chance to be the group manager as well? Because we, as you mentioned earlier, Farah, this industry uh uh male dominance.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

But anyhow, we'll see over time. What can organizations and the industry, or if we're talking about RSPO in particular, maybe RSPO members, can do to encourage more women to participate in this field, or even like you said, to encourage them to work not just in the in the office, uh in the offices, but also for them to take the challenge to you know um be more on site. Do you what do you think that needs to be done?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

To be honest, it took me quite a while on on what what would be my utmost point to to highlight uh to answer this question. And I always come back to the always the the top level, which is at the policy level, actually. Because to me, that would be the enabling factor, the main enabling factor to allow the spill-down activity, the spill-down effect goes down to all the department unit and everything built on the on-site. So it starts at the policy level, then press practice it at all level, then. This is to enable the rightful opportunity to be available for both genders. What I meant with rightful opportunity is referring to all aspects of recruitment and career development factor. It's not about uh men and women should get the equal, but it's about the fitting, the suitable criteria, the suitable factor that will attract them to participate in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

So it means that both are given equal opportunities regardless of genders.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Yes, equal opportunity, and that opportunity should be right. It's not that because men you give this A, women also A, but you have to see A for men and A for women, probably different. So you have to feel it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

So personally, so you've gone through more than a decade in this sustainability industry, uh, conservation. Um, what advice would you say you would give to the young women who are interested in entering the sustainability or palmer sector? Maybe a message that maybe you you would have with your peers when you're like, you know, starting off in uni and things like that. Um, what would you say to them and what would you encourage them to do?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

My advice is first thing first, is don't be afraid to try things out. Because as long as you have even uh a little bit of interest, just try it and later you decide whether you want to venture into more detail or maybe you want to try other things. Sometimes because we never tried it out, we we don't know how interesting it would be inside the world of this industry, actually. So, first thing first is to be brave to try out, be open-minded and be eager to learn. Always be aware of your surroundings, every step of your journey, and take care of yourself along the way. As sustainability is about making a meaningful impact while growing yourself. Bravery lets you take initiative, open-mindedness allows you to understand and connect with others, while eagerness to learn ensures you keep evolving. Together, this quality can empower you to not just participate in the sector, but to lead transformative change.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Right. So, with that, we are coming into the last question, which is what changes would you like to see for women in the industry in the next 10 years?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

To me, I would hope to see women would be represented in all level, all department level in the companies, plantation companies, or even up to our independent small holder group. Basically, there is no male dominance perspective anymore. It's an equal playing field for both men and women in the industry. So I would hope to see that in the next 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Thank you, Zhang, for sharing your journey and insights with us. Thank you. Thank you, Farah, for having me. It is clear that women play a vital role in advancing sustainability across the pump mill sector from smallholder communities to leadership and policies. And why won't participation is important because it can influence other women to join in and not be afraid anymore to enter the sector and to be inspired, like how Jiang did with all the powerhouses in the sustainability or sustainable pump mill sector. Thank you for tuning into the palm pot. Stay tuned for more conversations with the people driving sustainable change. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the palm pot on your favorite podcasting platforms. And feel free to share your feedback for our next episode. I was speaking to our guest, Kratija Abdul Qadir Orjan, the senior manager of Smallholder Program. At RSPO. I'm Farom, and this is the Pump Pot.