Odyssey Climbing + Fitness - Ben Ganther, CEO and co-founder

In the fourth of our series on the sports and outdoor recreation business in Northeastern Wisconsin, Megan Mulholland and Terry Pinch discover how the power of community and adventure is enabling this local company to thrive and grow.

Resources Mentioned:

• Odyssey Climbing + Fitness: www.odysseyclimbing.com
• SCORE Northeast Wisconsin: score.org/wi/northeast-wisconsin

Thank You to Our Sponsors

We would like to thank our sponsors for their generous support of BizTalk with SCORE:

• Heling & Associates LLC: hhttps://www.helingandassociates.com/
• Johnson Financial Group: https://www.johnsonfinancialgroup.com
• Community First Credit Union: https://www.communityfirstcu.org
• Baird: https://geenengroup.bairdwealth.com/ 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

BizTalk Intro

WHBY: SCORE Northeast Wisconsin and WHBY are pleased to bring you BizTalk, a chance for you to hear from entrepreneurs and professionals as they share their experiences. From starting to sustaining growth, learn the skills needed for your business to be successful. If you miss anything, you can catch the BizTalk podcast at score.org/northeastwisconsin.

And now, from the Miron Construction Studio, it's BizTalk on WHBY. 

Sports Spending Boom

Terry Pinch : Good morning, and welcome to BizTalk with SCORE, and the fourth episode in our series on the business of sports and recreation. Americans now spend about $1.5 trillion a year on sports and outdoor recreation. To put that in perspective, let's look at what we spend in a few other categories: 30 billion a year spent on plays and concerts, 150 billion a year spent on movies, streaming, and TV, 150 billion spent on reading, and 200 billion spent on culture and heritage, think museums and historical sites.

So it has rapidly become one of the largest categories of spending, and this is a dramatic historical shift. Median family incomes have grown around 75.5 times over the last 50 years, while spending on sports and outdoor recreation has grown more than 50 times. The sports and outdoor recreation industry is now larger than m- more traditional industries such as farming, mining, and utilities, among others.

This month, we're featuring experts and entrepreneurs operating in this rapidly growing and changing industry. So welcome to BizTalk. 

Meet The Hosts

Terry Pinch : I'm Terry Pinch, one of the co-hosts this week, and in joining me this week as co-host is internet celebrity Megan Mulholland. How are you, Megan? 

Megan Mulholland : Thanks, Terry. I'm, I'm really good, and I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Terry Pinch : Yeah. So you should tell our listeners how you became an internet celebrity.

Megan Mulholland : I, I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. If you're talking about, like being on LinkedIn and being a personal brand, branding person, is that what you're talking about? 

Terry Pinch : Yeah. When you have an 18-year-old tell you you're an internet celebrity, and a, a person you don't even know, that's when you know you are one.

Megan Mulholland : Okay. Yes, and I have an 18... A, a 19-year-old and a 22-year-old, and yes, they, they always laugh when we go someplace and someone knows who they are because I have shared stories about them. So, they, they get a kick out of having a mom as someone a lot of people in the community know. 

Terry Pinch : Good. Okay. So Megan, you're gonna lead off this, week's episode, so we'll let you get started.

Introducing Odyssey

Megan Mulholland : And I love this. I've always been an outdoors enthusiast, hiker, camper. I love all different kinds of activities. So when I met Ben, Ben Ganther, at a chamber Business After 5 where he was hosting at Odyssey Climbing and Fitness, we started talking and I wanted to learn more, so this was a great way to do it was to have him on the podcast.

So welcome, Ben. 

Ben Ganther: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm, I'm excited to be here. 

Ben’s Origin Story

Megan Mulholland : So can you give us a little bit of background on Odyssey, Climbing and Fitness, but start off a little bit with more about your background, kind of your business background and your climbing background? 

Ben Ganther: Sure. So a, a little bit about me, I guess.

So I grew up in Northeast Wisconsin, born in Oshkosh, grew up in Wrightstown for many years, and I graduated high school from, Green Bay Notre Dame, and so kinda up and down the 41 corridor. Went to school at, UW Madison, and then graduated and did real estate development in Milwaukee for about 10 years.

And it was in Milwaukee that I started climbing. So I started climbing at an indoor climbing gym down there called Adventure Rock. My brother-in-law, Sam, is actually my business partner. He's the one that got us all into climbing about 10 years ago, so about when we were all in Milwaukee for the first time together.

So he and my sister are a couple years younger. They moved to Milwaukee shortly after I did, and, it was great. It was a lot of fun. It's- It kinda became our social circle, kind of the things that we'd do to hang out. We would go climb Tuesdays and Thursdays and, and then go get a bite or something to drink afterwards, and then, same thing on the weekends.

And so, after doing that for a while, and then we would come up to Northeast Wisconsin to visit family, we would bring our climbing stuff with us 'cause we kinda just assumed there was a climbing gym up here in somewhere between Green Bay and Oshkosh 'cause it's the third-largest population density in the state, and when we found out that there wasn't, that was kind of the beginning of Odyssey.

So, that was where our journey started. 

Choosing Green Bay

Megan Mulholland : So, leading on that, you started first in Green Bay in 2023, right? What, what caused you to pick Green Bay, and why become an entrepreneur? 'Cause you hadn't been one before. 

Ben Ganther: Correct. Yeah. Maybe we're just a little crazy. But the ... A- and definitely naive. I think we thought it was gonna be easy.

But, the, the real estate development background helped a lot because especially getting a climbing gym open, it's basically a, a development deal. So you have to find the land, you've gotta negotiate with landowners, you've gotta, put budgets together. You've gotta put financing together. You've gotta get a building designed and built, and manage costs, and get permits, and all that stuff is essentially the work that I did prior to opening Odyssey.

And so that really served us well. But there were a lot of stops and starts. So we weren't just focusing on Green Bay when we were first starting. We were kinda looking at both Green Bay and Appleton. And the way that we ended up with our s- location up there is actually through Appleton. So we had, you know, found a site in Green Bay that we liked.

That didn't end up working out. We found a site in Appleton that we liked. That didn't end up working out. It was COVID, so it was kinda weird times. And then we got connected to a development partner of ours through the city of Appleton, 'cause they had a site in downtown Appleton that, it just wasn't gonna quite work for what we were looking for, but we knew about the project that they had going on in Ashwaubenon.

So the developers merged urban development, and, we ended up partnering with them and saying, "Hey, like, we would love to locate with the project that you've already got approved up in Ashwaubenon." And to their credit, I, I don't think I've ever seen a developer move as fast as they did. They said, "Yes, let's do it."

We worked on a concept plan. It worked for us, and we were kind of straight into lease negotiations and, and taking it off from there. So, I'd say the, the lesson there is, you know, we were pretty flexible with where we would go, but you gotta knock on a lotta doors. I mean, we talked to dozens of different property owners and building owners and landowners to try to find the right site and make something work.

And getting that to line up with the financing was, was kinda the trick 

Expanding To Appleton

Megan Mulholland : And then when did you open Appleton? 

Ben Ganther: We opened the Appleton location in September of '25, so coming up on a year. 

Megan Mulholland : So it was just two years after Green Bay. 

Ben Ganther: Two and a half years. Yeah, yeah. 

Megan Mulholland : So why, I mean, why, I don't wanna say that's soon, or was that too long?

I mean, two and a half to open a second location, it 

Ben Ganther: seems to be- Yeah, that was definitely- ... aggressive 

Megan Mulholland : and exciting ... 

Ben Ganther: that was definitely crazy. These are pretty capital intensive projects. And we, we were fortunate that the Green Bay location did pretty well from the start, but we essentially took all of the, profits from the Green Bay location's first couple of years operating and, and plowed it back into the business to fund the expansion of Appleton.

So we were fortunate enough to be able to do that. And it was always our plan to have an Appleton location. The offering for us as a business is, it's pretty important to have, a membership that can be servicing Green Bay and Appleton because prior to opening Appleton, about 10 to 15% of our members were driving up from Appleton.

And so we knew that there'd be value there for the Appleton community. But then it was also somewhat of a threat to us that if somebody else opened a climbing gym in Appleton, it would be pretty difficult for us to grow. So, that was the strategy, and, and yeah, we're just pretty lucky that it worked out.

Design Lessons Learned

Terry Pinch : When you started the second location, were there some things you wanted to do differently than you had done in Green Bay from that two and a half year experience? 

Ben Ganther: A lot. There's a lot that we wanted to do differently, and I would say there's a lot that we would do differently than what we did in Appleton, too.

So you're always learning, you know? I think that's probably the... One of the things about being an entrepreneur is you guys can walk in in the space and say, "Wow, this is so cool," and, and I walk in and I just see all the things wrong with it. I'm like, "Gosh, I wish we did that differently." And so, you know, you're always trying to iterate, you're always trying to improve.

But yeah, we learned some things from Green Bay. So the flow in Appleton's a little bit better. It's less congested for people coming in for the first time. Once you're in the space, you can really explore and, and find different opportunities to push yourself and climb. We've got different features and amenities like a sauna and a yoga room that's dedicated that allow us to do more programming.

So, yeah, there's a lot of stuff that we incorporated that we weren't able to do in Green Bay. 

Climbing Meets Fitness

Terry Pinch : And as part of your name, it's climbing and fitness, so do, do you tie the fitness aspect into the climbing, too, to kinda, or are they really two separate things in the same location? 

Ben Ganther: It's mostly there to just represent that it's not just climbing, right?

I think a lot of people, especially if they're not familiar with a climbing gym, they almost think more of, like, an amusement park than they do, like, a fitness, wellness, social membership model, right? And so the fitness tries to help capture some of that. But climbing itself is, is inherently, like, a really good workout.

And so that's part of it. That's how I got hooked on climbing, is I started climbing more, and I really liked it, but then I realized that the gym I was climbing at had a fitness center that was a part of it. And so that was where it kinda clicked with me that I didn't need my Gold's Gym membership anymore, as an example, 'cause I had the squat racks and the weights and the treadmills that I was using there at the climbing gym.

And so I canceled that membership and then, and then started that one up, uh, down there. And so, yeah, the f- the fitness is inherent to climbing, but then we've got all of the fitness center amenities as well to make sure that we can be that one-stop shop for folks that want to both climb and come to us for their fitness needs.

Grassroots Marketing Wins

Terry Pinch : So when you started up, you knew the real estate aspect out of it and buying property, and you had good experience in that. But how did you know and learn the rest of starting a small business, running the books, and the marketing, and bringing in clients? How did you build your knowledge in that area?

Ben Ganther: Yeah, I wouldn't say we really know any more than we do when we started. We're still trying to figure it out. But, if anybody has good tips on how to grow and market a climbing gym, I'm all ears. The- But we, we have a really good network. You know, we put a lot of work in early, especially when we were opening Green Bay.

Again, we were opening during COVID or, or right after COVID, and so it was kind of a unique time for us because our jobs became remote, both me and Sam. And so we had a lot of flexibility, so we were able to come up here and take meetings with people and get the word out and network a lot. And so that really helped, get the word out, you know.

And what I always tell people is, especially when you're starting out, like, do the things that don't scale, right? Like, everybody wants the flashy, "Hey, let me buy some Instagram ads, and then my business is gonna go from zero to 100 really fast." But the single most important thing we did was we would go to, like, farmers markets and these different community events with a table and some imagery, and then we would have no brochures.

It was just us and a piece of paper and some pens, and we'd talk to people, get them excited about climbing, and then they're like, "Well, do you have a brochure?" And we'd say, "Well, no, I'm sorry. We don't have any, but here's our email newsletter. You can sign up, and we'll send you information." And you could tell nobody wanted to do it, but they all wanted the information.

And so that, that newsletter alone sold us 500 pre-sold founding memberships before we opened, and it was kind of the thing that set us up for success before Green Bay opened. 

Terry Pinch : So was 

Megan Mulholland : the- I remember meeting you at a farmers market. 

Ben Ganther: Yeah. That's great. 

Megan Mulholland : Now that you say that- Good ... I remember that. 

Ben Ganther: Good. Yeah, yeah.

We were all over the place. And those were really fun times. It's tough to do that nowadays when we've got two kids each and a third on the way for me, so we're not there as much. But I w- I- those are... it's probably the most valuable thing we did. 

Megan Mulholland : And one thing I- As, as a marketing person, I thought that was pretty gutsy, to be very honest, and I, I, I, I appreciated it of- Yeah

no, you weren't gonna hand me something, but by the way, take the QR code, or, you know, here's- Yeah ... our email. So, yeah. 

Ben Ganther: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we did the math, and it was, like, $25 per email was the value that we would get from that, so it was, it was really high, really high value for us. 

Terry Pinch : Excellent. 

Break And SCORE Plug

Terry Pinch : So we're at the point where we're gonna take our first break.

You're listening to Biz Talk with SCORE and WHBY, and we'll be right back after these messages.

Megan Mulholland : Welcome back. We're glad you joined us this morning. Our guest this morning is Ben Ganther from Odyssey Climbing and Fitness. Before continuing our conversation with Ben, I'd like to tell you about SCORE Northeast Wisconsin. SCORE Northeast Wisconsin serves a 29 county area with over 40 volunteers, each an expert in their field, offering entrepreneurs no-cost and confidential mentoring.

Those areas of expertise include social media, marketing, cashflow, accounting, strategic planning, best practices, and many others. In order to register for a no-cost confidential mentoring session and learn more about SCORE Northeast Wisconsin, visit our website at score.org/wi/northeastwisconsin. You can learn about, you can learn, excuse me, you can learn more about how the SCORE chapter can assist you with starting or growing your business, and you can also complete an application for a mentoring session.

Simply click on the Match a Mentor button, then complete the online form and submit it to SCORE. Within a few days, a SCORE mentor, like Terry, will be contacting you to set up a meeting. Remember, SCORE is no cost and offers experts who can offer assistance in many different areas. To sm- to support small business people, SCORE Northeast Wisconsin is always looking for new mentors.

If you have experience that you'd like to share with others, we'd love to talk to you. We welcome volunteers with e- experience in all aspects of business. Small business owners need your help, and your experience can make a real difference to their success. Go to score.org/wi/northeastwisconsin, click on the volunteer button, and fill out the short application.

We will get back to you to explain more. And finally, this reminder about the BizTalk with SCORE podcast. The BizTalk with SCORE podcast brings the same real world information and insights from experienced entrepreneurs and business leaders, just like BizTalk with SCORE on WHBY. However, the podcast is available when you are and where you are, so listen and subscribe.

Available on most podcatchers and podcast apps. Thanks again for joining us on BizTalk. Now back to Ben Ganther from Odyssey Climbing and Fitness. 

Hiring And Operations

Megan Mulholland : So Ben, we were talking about building the business and expanding to Appleton, and, and all of that. And one of the things that was, I was very curious about is, how do you find employees to work at a climbing gym?

Ben Ganther: You know, it's, it's definitely a challenge like it is for any business, but we do have a unique advantage in that, there's quite a few people that wanna work for us that are just interested in working and supporting for a climbing gym. So our biggest push is, was always around first opening, right?

So when we opened Green Bay and we opened Appleton. Because to run each gym we have about 30 part-time employees, so someone working anywhere from two shifts a week to three or four shifts a week. You know, 'cause we're open pretty regularly, so generally 9:00 AM to 10:00 PM. And then we close at 6:00 PM on Sundays, and then we have early morning hours Monday through Thursday alternating between the gyms at 6:00 AM.

So pretty wide range of hours that we have to fill. And then a host of different positions for coaches and route setters. And so, yeah, all in it's a pretty big lift. But really the type of person that we're looking for is someone that wants to be a part of something, to be a part of a community and, and really, you know, be involved in s- in the climbing gym, climbing community, space.

And so when we were first opening Green Bay, that was kind of the call to action we put out there again, to our newsletter database, to our social media platforms. And what's cool about bringing a climbing gym to a community where there hasn't been one or there hasn't been one in a while, is there's tons of people that are just excited that it's coming, right?

And so that was kind of the way that a lot of our first hires, and so those are some of our best hires that we've had came to the table for us, is they maybe are from here and they moved away and they discovered climbing and they loved it, and then they moved back and it wasn't there, right? And they'd kinda written that part of their life off.

And so they're just so excited to be a part of it, that they're, they'll say, "Hey, I'll do whatever you need. Just point me in the direction and we'll do it." And so, that's how we, we found a lot of employees. But we work with a lot of students, high school students, college students, and they're great, too.

That's, kinda where they start finding their climbing journey and starting it off. So yeah, that's kind of the mix. 

Terry Pinch : Okay. So with the managing that number of employees, how do you keep track of who's gonna work when, where? Do you have software you're using to do that? 

Ben Ganther: Yeah. We use a scheduling software, and then our, I guess, ERP system is what you'd call it, that does point-of-sale, membership management, all that stuff, has a clock-in function.

So we manage the time that way. So it's actually pretty straightforward. 

Terry Pinch : Yeah. So as you look at other aspects of your business, bookkeeping and things like that, is it a similar type of thing? You're using good software and managing- 

Ben Ganther: Yeah. We use QuickBooks Online. Again, our ERP system's designed specifically for the climbing gym industry, and so that'll export journal entries straight from our point of sale into QuickBooks.

So once you get that set up, it's pretty seamless. So yeah, it's kinda the normal bookkeeping, close-out process at the end of the month that you'd probably have at any other business. 

Terry Pinch : So realistically, with the work you had done getting the email list going, the work you did to set up the admin, you're able to focus your time really on setting up the climbing gym, finding the members, and getting the employees to make things work correctly.

Ben Ganther: Yeah. Yeah, I'd say, and that's probably where most of my time's spent now, is primarily on marketing and growth efforts. 

Marketing Experiments

Terry Pinch : And as you look at those, are you still primarily using online marketing? 

Ben Ganther: That's a good question. And we keep going back and forth on it, you know? I talked to some people that are pretty excited about digital marketing and, and believe really strongly in it, that say, "Hey, you do this and I guarantee you X, Y, Z return on ROAS," and, you know, it gets me really excited and, but then you look at the cost of it and you're like, "Gosh, that's so expensive."

And, you know, so then you run a little experiment, and it might work, it might not, and then you're like, "Ah, I can't commit," so you turn it off. And so we're, we're actually running some, some online ads right now, and we're committing to it to, to try to actually run a campaign. And so we're pushing it through at least the end of November.

So I guess ask me in a couple of months and I'll let you know if, if that's what our, our go-to plan is. But mostly, it's still a lot of email, marketing to the folks that have been in, so kind of retargeting folks that have been, been to the gym before. 

Terry Pinch : Great. All right. 

Break And Conference

Terry Pinch : We're gonna take our second break.

You're listening to Biz Talk with SCORE on WHBY, and we'll be right back after these messages. 

Welcome back to Biz Talk. We're speaking to Ben Ganther this week from Odyssey Climbing and Fitness. Before we get back to Ben, I have a quick education update to give you from SCORE. We're proud to announce that SCORE Wisconsin's annual Accelerate Your Business for Women conference is taking place on September 28th, between 8:00 and 4:00.

It's going to be at the Kalahari Resort, and it'll feature presentations and seminars on things like finance, marketing, technology, life skills, to all help you be more successful with, with your business. Everybody's welcome to attend, and the keynote speaker this year is Amanda Kroner, who is the founder of, of Carbless Cocktails and from Northeast Wisconsin, and by the way, also will be a guest on Biz Talk with SCORE in two weeks.

But she's done... Her and her husband have set up a fantastic business in Northeast Wisconsin, and it's an opportunity to hear her talk about that. , It's an $89 discounted rate if you sign up in advance. I think it's 99 at the door, or, within the last week or two, and you can also get discounted room rates at Kalahari Resort.

So again, it's Accelerate Your Business for Women conference from SCORE Wisconsin, and it takes place on September 28th, and it's from 8:00 to 3:30. So the last three conferences have been done very well and, and been well received, so take a look at that and see if you can attend. Okay. With that, I'm gonna turn it back over to Megan to continue our conversation with Ben.

Megan Mulholland : Thank you, Terry

Safety And Orientation

Megan Mulholland : So when, I think when a lot of people think of climbing gym, one of the things that they might think of or come to their head is falling, you know, and the safety aspect. It's not like going to a gym where you hop on a treadmill or do some weights. So there is, you know, obviously safety around that. So it's kind of a two-part question.

How do you train your employees on that safety aspect, but then how do you reassure and train or, whatever the word, the phrase might be for, especially a new customer or a new member? 

Ben Ganther: Yeah. Really good question, and I'm glad you brought it up because it is, kind of a big differentiator for climbing gyms.

So first on our staff side, all of our staff are trained to be certified climbing wall instructors. So there's an industry organization called the Climbing Wall Association that puts out programming that says you've gotta, you know, train or, you know, have instruction delivered to your staff to reach this certification level from a certified climbing wall provider, which we have one on staff.

But that allows us to make sure that our staff all have kind of the state of the industry level training to help manage risk within the space because you are exactly right. Climbing is an inherently dangerous activity, otherwise it wouldn't be climbing. You know, if there's no risk of falling, it's not exactly climbing.

So, there is some pretty thorough training that our staff goes through to make sure that we can deliver the proper amount of risk management within the space and provide a space that people can come in, have fun, and recreate. So a lot goes into the training and then you'll see that when you come in, especially on your first visit.

So nobody's allowed to climb at Odyssey without going through an orientation and, and getting some certifications, right? So you can come in with no knowledge of climbing, but you'll leave having received our, you know, orientation training, which takes about 10 to 15 minutes. But that gives you the skillset to come in and climb at our facility.

So that orientation really is both the opportunity for us to train you, but then also to, you know, provide a little bit of hospitality, make sure that you're welcomed in the gym. If you're a little unsure of what you're gonna be doing, make sure that we provide an encouraging, you know, voice and, and face within the space, 'cause it can be a little bit intimidating, and our goal is to make sure that everybody has as great of a time as possible.

So, a lot of training on our staff on the front end, and then everybody gets an orientation and certifications in order to climb once they come in for that first visit. 

Programs And Memberships

Megan Mulholland : So how does a climbing gym operate? You mentioned membership, but then is it open climb? Are there classes? Are there... What are the activities?

Ben Ganther: Yeah, kinda all of the above. You know, we kinda throw everything and the kitchen sink at it. It's the blessing and the curse of being a climbing gym in a community that's not, like, huge into climbing, right? So we've got our members that really love climbing, and you know, they buy the membership 'cause it's the most affordable way to climb frequently at the gym.

But then you can come in on a day pass, right? So you can come in pretty much any hours that we're open, so again, like 9:00 AM to 10:00 PM, 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM on a Sunday, and just try it out. Climb for fun, climb for an hour, climb for two hours, climb for the whole day, whatever it is. So those are two, like, regular ways that people come in and climb, but then we do youth programs, so anything from a birthday party or a field trip to our advanced comp team that trains three days a week for a couple hours at a time and competes, you know, regionally, divisionally, and nationally on the youth circuits, for climbing.

So, kind of a gambit of offerings, you know, makes it interesting for us. But we try to find as many on-ramps to climbing for people as possible is, is probably the best way to think about it. So finding an excuse to come in and climb and s- get exposed to climbing and hopefully eventually become a lifelong climber is our goal.

Community And Mental Health

Megan Mulholland : So one of the things you had mentioned when I was talking to you at the Business After 5 at your climbing gym was, about even working with nonprofits or how it's a great- how the gym, the climbing gym is more than climbing, it's also that camaraderie and getting out of your head, you know, of the things that might be bringing you down or worrisome.

Do you wanna touch a little bit about that? 

Ben Ganther: Yeah. There's a couple things. I mean, one just on, like, the community side is, climbing's different than most fitness activities in that it is inherently social. And there's two things that contributed to that. One is there's a good amount of rest time, right?

So because you're going vertical into the air, you can't just, like, keep climbing nonstop for 45 minutes straight like you could if you're on a treadmill, right? So you climb up, maybe that took you three, four, five minutes, and then you're gonna come down, you'll probably rest for two, three, four, five minutes.

And so you're sitting at the ground, you're looking at your climb. Someone else climbs it, and then you're talking to them, "Oh, hey, that was a great move. How'd you do that?" We call it sharing beta is the lingo. And, you know, you kinda strike up conversations rather easily versus you go to a traditional fitness center and you pop your headphones in, and it's kind of taboo to talk to somebody if you don't know them and, you know, that sort of thing.

And so, it's really social. And then the other piece that, you know, I think just helps people from a mental health standpoint, and, and I think this is true of most fitness and movement things, but when you're on the wall, it's the only thing you can think of, right? You know, "What's the next move I'm gonna make?

What's the next hold that I'm gonna grab?" And so yeah, if you're going through something, if you're having a bad day at work or whatever it is, when you're on the wall, kind of just all clears and resets. So yeah, I think it is a really powerful thing from a mental health standpoint, too.

Youth Teams And Retention

Terry Pinch : When, when you have youth coming in to learn climbing, how do- is it usually with parents that they come in and they come together, or is it parents signing children up to kind of join and try a different activity? 

Ben Ganther: Yeah, both. I mean, we'll have parents that'll just come in and explore with their kid or just let their kid climb, right?

So kids under the age of 14 need to come into the gym with an adult if they're not signed up for a program. But if they're signed up for a program, yeah, they're coming and climbing with our instructors. They're teaching them technique. They're playing climbing games. They're teaching them how to become better climbers.

Birthday parties, it's kind of what you'd imagine. We got a room. You can rent it out. You get, you know, refrigerator, tables, chairs, all the, you know, all the fixings for having a fun time at a birthday party, and then the parents are just hanging out with their friends, watching them climb, helping out a little bit, and yeah, it's a good time.

Terry Pinch : So obviously, one of the things you really wanna do is hook somebody young and have them stay in climbing, whether it's with you or if they move somewhere else after school, but building that climbing community. Are you seeing that? It's been... You've only been open for a few years now, but are you seeing people really, young people becoming what looks like they'll be, will be long-term climbers?

Ben Ganther: We have. It's definitely on the smaller scale now, but it's, it's definitely one of the theories of our business that, you know, I think long-term is really when our flywheel starts spinning. So the kids that started climbing on our climbing team with us in 2023 when we first opened, and they were 13, and they go through our program, and then they graduate.

They go to school, and then they come back in 10 years, and they're 22, 23. If we did our job right, they're still climbers, and they're getting a membership at Odyssey when they move back to town, right? And so that's the theory. That's the goal. But you see it with the kids that were on those original climbing teams when we first opened.

I mean, we kind of threw those youth programs together without much planning and saying, "Hey, let's just do this thing." And, and I- there's probably, like, a 90% retention rate on those kids that started climbing with us at, at such a young age. 

Indoor To Outdoor Climbing

Terry Pinch : So one other transition that can happen with climbers is going from indoors to outdoors.

One, do you do anything that helps prepare them for climbing outdoors, and do you see much of that, people going to climb outdoors after their experiences there? 

Ben Ganther: We see it a lot. I mean, so I, I manage our social media accounts, and if our members follow us, we'll follow them back. And that's one of my favorite things to see, is when they start climbing outdoors and posting it to social media and, you know, starting their, their outdoor climbing adventure.

So it's definitely happening. You know, other than just getting people exposed to climbing, there's not a ton that we do to prepare them for that. Primarily that's because, you know, we have a very set, amount of risk in, in insurance and liability that we need to cover. So to start, you know, taking on some of that to get people ready for outdoor climbing, it's not something that we represent, but we do partner with climbing guides that provide great service for getting people climbing outdoors, and so we'll put on, like, weekends of climbing at Devils Lake for Odyssey members that are hosted through, partner organizations of ours 

Business Lessons From Climbing

Terry Pinch : And what has climbing taught you about running a business?

Ben Ganther: You know, I think there's a lot of risk management in both, and I think my development background also taught me that too. But we're always trying to mitigate, you know, downside. You know, whether that's from an insurance perspective and making sure that we have our processes and procedures in place which if you're climbing, and that's your gear, that's your anchor systems, it's your rope, it's everything like that.

And so, yeah, I think that's one of the big things. And then the other, the other piece is it is a process, right? So nobody gets better at climbing just magically overnight. I mean, you gotta put the work in. You gotta take the steps. You have to fail a lot, and then learn from that, iterate, and then hopefully improve and get better.

So yeah, there's a lot of parallels. 

Terry Pinch : And if you look at the business itself, you do offer a number of other services like yoga and fitness and that. How important are those other services to the overall business offering? Is it really to help build the climbing business? 

Ben Ganther: The goal of it is to really have as much value in our membership as possible.

So we, we attract a pretty active clientele. And they oftentimes might have two, three different fitness memberships. And so if we can provide as much of their fitness needs under one roof, hopefully the goal is that those other, you know, offerings they don't need, right? So if they're into yoga, they can do yoga here.

If they are into lifting weights, they can do-- they can lift weights here. And so, the goal is to really try to make our membership value as high as possible. 

Rewards And Realities

Terry Pinch : So as you look at these last three years, what's been the most rewarding aspect of running this business? 

Ben Ganther: You know, there's been a few.

The conversations with members about how meaningful it is to have a climbing gym in their community again. You know, we got a lot of those when we first opened. But it's been pretty neat. My daughter was born two months after we opened our, first location, and she's now at a age where she, you know, knows what Odyssey is and recognizes the logo and knows the building when we pull into the parking lot.

And seeing her get excited about it is, is pretty special. So, yeah, that's definitely the, the most fulfilling part. 

Terry Pinch : So I have to ask, what age will she start climbing? 

Ben Ganther: Well, she could've started already. She's a little bit, she's risk-averse, so she's, sh- we gotta work on getting her to trust her systems, I think, a little bit more.

But I, I had her, hold onto a monkey bar at, like, 18 months, and it's, like, classic, like, three, four pictures that I have of her where she's smiling- And then she realizes that my hands are gone, and she goes to confused to, like, terrified all in, like, a three, four picture swipe. So I think I may have scarred her at a young age.

So it might be a year or two, but we're working on it. My son's 18 months, so hopefully he'll start climbing around the time she does. 

Terry Pinch : Well, maybe they'll inherit your risk management capabilities over time. Yeah. 

Ben Ganther: There we go. There we go. 

Terry Pinch : So when you look back, do... what are the things you'd rather not have to deal with?

What do you like best? So let's go now with what do you like least about running a business? 

Ben Ganther: You know, that's funny, 'cause Sam and I have been talking a lot about that. And, you know, I, I think everybody glamorizes the be your own boss and make your own schedule side of things. And if that's what you're into, like, this is not the gig for you.

Um, you know, having a W-2 income and, like, 15, 20 vacation days, like, that's really the epitome of freedom and flexibility right there. Like, you just, if that's what you're into, like, take it. But if you wanna build something from scratch and, you know, create something of value and, and ultimately, you know, hopefully provide something that, you know, makes a difference in the community, it's a pretty awesome and, and rewarding thing.

So, you know, it's all-encompassing. There's no off days for us. Like, you know, for me it's 10:00 PM at night is when I can kinda turn my brain off a little bit because if anything happens at the gym, someone falls, there's an accident, you know, that calls to me. And so there's just this like, the burden of, of being a business owner is always on.

So now that's probably the part of, of it that, you know, you take, but is, is not the most favorite part. 

Terry Pinch : So you're in almost three years now, or at three year- close to three years now. Would you do this again? 

Ben Ganther: We would, yeah. Again, we would definitely do it differently. I think that was the, the theme of the, you know, how we designed Green Bay and Appleton.

There's so many things that we learned that if we, if we would've done them upfront, it would've been a little bit easier on us. You know, I think we, we stretched really, really hard, really, really fast. And so the joke has been now that we have a third kid on the way and the cadence of us opening gyms and having kids has basically been have a kid, open a gym.

And so the joke is, "Well, you're opening another gym next year?" And the answer is absolutely no. So we're breaking that pattern. But yeah, we wouldn't trade it. We wouldn't trade it for the world. 

Terry Pinch : Great. 

Advice For Entrepreneurs

Terry Pinch : So as, as you look back, you had a, a career in real estate development. This was a permit- pretty dramatic shift.

When you did it, again, you know risk management, you took a risk- How do you feel right now? What would you tell others? Take that risk. How do you prep- prepare for it? What would you say to somebody who's thinking about this? 

Ben Ganther: Well, there is one thing that I tell everybody, and I, I read about it in a book, I believe it was called Originals.

And now I'm blanking on, on the author. But he's got- Adam Grant. I think like three or four bestsellers. But, one of the best, you know, kind of like business or thinking organizational books that I've read. And he tells a story about, the founders of Warby Parker and how they kept their like full-time jobs essentially as late as possible, and that allowed them the flexibility and creativity and financial I guess, safety net to do aggressive and creative things with their business, right?

When you don't have that, you're forced to figure out ways to make money fast and, you know, maybe cut corners on the long-term vision of what you wanna do. And so both Sam and I did something very similar where we kept our full-time jobs, you know, basically up until the point that Odyssey opened, and that gave us a lot of flexibility because, you know, it took us from 2019 when we first had the idea to 2023 to open that gym.

And if we would've committed to trying to open a gym as our full-time job in 2019, there's no way we would've got there, right? We would've ran out of money fast, we would've ran out of resources fast and needed to give up the dream for, making our careers work. So yeah, that's the recommendation I would have is push forward.

Try to follow the dream, but make sure that you've got some sort of plan to support you while you do it, at least until you can't anymore. 

Terry Pinch : Okay. Very good answer from a risk management, a person with a risk management perspective. I really appreciate it, and wish more entrepreneurs would think that way, too.

Final Break Sponsors

Terry Pinch : All right, we're gonna take our final break. We'll be right back after these messages 

Megan Mulholland : Welcome back to BizTalk with SCORE. We'd like to thank our sponsors for their generous support of BizTalk. Haling & Associates helps small businesses and in- individuals not just prepare tax returns, but plan for the future. Haling & Associates, personal connection, positive results. Wherever you are in life or the life of your business, Johnson Financial Group works to match the banking and wealth services needed to help you complete your mission.

And thank you to the Business News for promoting our program in the biweekly business newspaper serving Northeast Wisconsin with the latest business news and topics for the region. We are grateful for the support of Community First Credit Union. At its core, CFCU is a community of member owners where people work together to improve their financial wellbeing and help one another.

New North, the regional marketing and economic development corporation, is an active supporter of SCORE. The New North facilitates economic growth and helps people in this region live their best lives. Since 1919, Baird has guided families through investment, trust, estate, and tax planning advice. So no matter what the future brings, you can be confident you're ready, because your family is Baird's focus.

How To Connect

Megan Mulholland : We've been talking to Ben Ganther from Odyssey Climbing and Fitness, and now I'd like to know how you, how our listeners can get ahold of you. You know, maybe connect with that email that you were talking about. 

Ben Ganther: Yeah, for sure. You can find us on our website, odysseyclimbing.com. The contact us page is a good way to, to get ahold of me and the rest of our management team.

So if you wanna connect or learn more, that's a great way to, to start. Our social media is, is fairly active. Instagram is @odyssey.climbing, and Facebook is just Odyssey Climbing and Fitness. But yeah, those are probably the best ways to get in touch and kinda see what's going on at Odyssey.

Terry Pinch : Okay. Ben, you've had a successful startup, and in three years to have two locations is pretty impressive for a lot of small businesses, and to build the business the way you have, to have the email marketing list of 40,000 people, beyond belief good. So you've done a lot of good things, and you've built this business to a really nice spot after three years.

Future Vision For 920

Terry Pinch : What are you thinking about for the future? 

Ben Ganther: You know, the future for us really looks like growing more climbers within the northeastern Wisconsin community. So the- we say a lot internally we want the 920 to be a, a climbing community, not just a community that has a climbing gym. And so whether that's growing membership or one of the, like, big youth programs that we're pushing right now is called the Wisconsin High School Climbing League, where the goal is to have every high school have a climbing club or climbing team around the area.

You know, that's what it looks like where, you know, people think of Green Bay, Appleton, the surrounding communities, and they think of Odyssey as a place that they and their families like to go climb and recreate. 

Terry Pinch : And as you build that, are, are you seeing the path start to make sense and see how you move forward to it?

Ben Ganther: I think we see that there's a lot more work to be done. So, yes, but, you know, I'll give you a for instance. You know, it's all I think about all day every day, and there's people I meet every week, you know, where you tell them, "Oh, yeah, we own a climbing gym in Green Bay and Appleton." They're like, "What's that?"

Right? They've never heard of it, you know? And I think that's a good sign that there's more opportunity for us to get the word out and keep pushing along that mission. 

Wrap Up And Podcast Outro

Terry Pinch : Well, it's been really great to have you on the show. You've got a great story, and it's another example of sport and outdoor recreation business has really been starting to make a difference to people in the community, and we can see how and why people are spending money more and more in this area as they have the income to do that.

And it's great to see somebody have a passion for this, start it up, and really see it be successful. So really grateful for what you've done for this area and appreciate having you on the show. 

Ben Ganther: Yeah. Thank you very much. It was a lot of fun, you guys. 

Megan Mulholland : Okay. Thanks, Ben. 

Terry Pinch : , For listeners, you've been listening to Biz Talk with SCORE.

This podcast, this show will come out as a podcast, sometime next week. And you can go and listen to it on all your favorite podcatchers, or you can find it on our score.org/wi/northeast-wisconsin website. And you'll have episodes from the past three years, so you can lis- re-listen to this one.

You can listen to other ones that are out there, and it's a great opportunity to learn more about some incredible businesses in northeast Wisconsin. So thanks again for joining us, and we will talk to you next week.