Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
Annie and the $400 Mandarin:
Have you ever made a decision that seemed perfectly reasonable in the moment, only to have it blow up in your face later? In this hilarious and insightful episode, Annie shares the mortifying story of how a single forgotten mandarin cost her $400 at New Zealand customs, despite her confidence that she'd cleared her bag of all prohibited items.
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She said it wouldn't be. She said so. You know you better. If you want to have children, you better go for it.
Speaker 2:You better you better be satisfied with that dark haired, you know, young actor who's living in his panel van.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were living in a van. It wasn't ideal. You are listening to the why Smart Women podcast, the podcast that helps smart women work out why we repeatedly make the wrong decisions and how to make better ones. From relationships, career choices, finances, to faux fur jackets and kale smoothies. Every moment of every day, we're making decisions. Let's make them good ones. I'm your host, annie McCubbin, and, as a woman of a certain age, I've made my own share of really bad decisions. Not my husband, I don't mean him, though I did go through some shockers to find him, and I wish this podcast had been around to save me from myself.
Speaker 2:This podcast will give you insights into the working of your own brain, which will blow your mind. I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land in which I'm recording and you are listening on this day. It is another glittering, glorious day.
Speaker 1:It's sunny and if I wasn't sick, I would be outside swimming in the ocean even though it's midwinter. But I am sick and I'm cranky about being sick. And why are you eating a mandarin? You were doing it last time as well. We started the podcast and you were eating a mandarin.
Speaker 2:I know, I'm just trying to keep my energy dripping it everywhere I'm not you are it's dripping on your leg? Look you asked me to think of something relevant to talk about today. Um and um, and I was thinking about mandarins. And, in particular, I was thinking do you remember? Do you remember that trip that we did to new zealand a few years ago and the $400 mandarin, would you like some?
Speaker 1:No, and you've dropped the peel on the ground.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll pick it up later.
Speaker 1:You won't pick it up, it'll stay there.
Speaker 2:Okay, but do you remember the $400 mandarin?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I can see that it's painful.
Speaker 1:Do you want to tell us what happened? Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Is it all right if I keep eating this while you tell the story?
Speaker 1:Well, what if I said no, you'd keep eating it anyway.
Speaker 2:Well, that's assumptive.
Speaker 1:Well, you didn't bring a plate in with you. It's now on the chair. Those chairs are new.
Speaker 2:You just it's all right.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God David.
Speaker 2:What is wrong with you?
Speaker 1:It's just an amber.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Right, Anyway. So what happened was David and myself and our two children flew Sydney to Auckland in New Zealand.
Speaker 2:That was Christchurch, I think.
Speaker 1:It was of course no good with detail, Doesn't matter, it was Christchurch.
Speaker 2:Does it really matter? We were flying into New Zealand. We were flying into New Zealand and we're flying into New Zealand and we landed and Flying into New Zealand and we landed and I guess you know the thing that I would say is that, like Australia, new Zealand being a remote island, they take their quarantine very, very, very, very seriously because they don't have a whole lot of the, you know, the insects and the viruses and the bugs that blight the harvest in other countries and on other continents.
Speaker 1:So their biosecurity is very strong and they're fine with that, anyway. So you arrive at the airport and we walk up the concourse and at the end of it, prior to going through customs and immigration, there is a bin, and on the bin it says throw any fruit and vegetables into this bin. And I remember thinking, oh, that's so good that I've been reminded of that, because I'm now going to throw out the banana and the apple that's in my bag.
Speaker 2:You had an entire fruit salad in there.
Speaker 1:I eat a lot of fruit. I'm a fruit consumer.
Speaker 2:And so you did actually cast off a banana and an apple. I did Okay Job done, job done, job done.
Speaker 1:Job done, so they got gone, and then I think the children were quite small and then so I dropped them in the bin. And then we get to the. Is it the luggage area?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, it's customs.
Speaker 1:It's customs Anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got the luggage. You've got the luggage. You go through the customs, Customs, customs, customs customs, anyway.
Speaker 1:Now, anybody who's listening to the podcast for long enough will know that I'm absolutely a dog sook. I cannot resist a dog. I love them of any kind. I cannot walk past a dog. Anyway, this beautiful little beagle is trotting around. There's an adorable little jacket on that says security. An official beagle An official beagle, but it was super cute. Yeah yeah, Anyway, I'm looking at it going. Oh, look at the beagle. Anyway, the beagle came and sat next to my bag.
Speaker 2:And you thought that that was you know. You thought that was great.
Speaker 1:I thought that was so cute, even though Lily, who was probably only 12 at the time, had said to me don't pat official looking dogs. Mum, you're not meant to do it, so I didn't pat the beagle.
Speaker 2:I didn't pat it, but you were strangely flattered that it had sat next to your bag and you felt it was because it knew that you were a dog lover.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then the lady came over and she said can I look in your bag? And I filled with post-throwing-out-the-banana-and-the-apple confidence, said sure, and she picked up my bag.
Speaker 2:She asked you the question of course.
Speaker 1:Did you pack your bag yourself?
Speaker 2:And do you have any fruit or vegetables in your?
Speaker 1:bag and I confidently said no.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:No, I don't.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then she said are you sure?
Speaker 1:Did she?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think she gave you an opportunity, oh right, anyway.
Speaker 1:Then she said do you mind if I look in your bag? And I said, no, look away. I said in my bag. And then she opened the bag and she put her hand inside the bag and she pulled out a mandarin from the bag and I went oh, oh, that must have been in there, like in the bag, when I packed the bag, not fruit I'd put in there. And I said to her at that point can I just put that in that bin? That was conveniently located quite near me, that's right.
Speaker 2:yeah, simple mistake.
Speaker 1:Simple mistake and she looked at me and she said no, you can't. And Lily and Lachlan, who, even at that age I think they were like probably 12 and 16, highly law-ab yes, very conscientious conscientious rule bound, were both mortified that I had broken a rule, even if it was just accidental. And then she said no, you can't put it in the bin and I'm going to have to fine you. And the fine was $400. $400.
Speaker 2:Expensive mandarin.
Speaker 1:It was an expensive mandarin and I wasn't allowed to eat it. Yeah, that's I mean.
Speaker 2:If you're paying $400.
Speaker 1:I mean, couldn't she just have let me eat it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, couldn't she? Did you feel like a mandarin at the time?
Speaker 1:I would have eaten it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:For $400,. I would have shoveled that mandarin in.
Speaker 2:Yes, and have shoveled that mandarin in yes. And what happened? Did she give it to the beagle?
Speaker 1:No, the beagle. At that point the beagle showed it had a lack of loyalty. That beagle.
Speaker 2:Were you still feeling fond of the beagle?
Speaker 1:No, I hated the beagle.
Speaker 2:Right, because the beagle had fingered you.
Speaker 1:The beagle had outed me.
Speaker 2:Outed you, poured you.
Speaker 1:Had poured me.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So I hated the Beagle and I wasn't that keen on her. But as is my want, I do try in those instances to charm my way out of the situation yes, so I turned on my best, charming Annie smile and friendly sort of collegial, you know, cross-tasman feel.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, australia, new, zealanders, you know.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Let's keep it together, hoping that this is going to work on a dowered South Island, new Zealand. Customs officer. Yeah, it did not.
Speaker 1:And you know. So I tried that and said oh, you know I'm super sorry and I had thrown that other fruit and you know we've just left Sydney, it's the first place we've stopped, and super sorry. Anyway, she was impervious to my chance.
Speaker 2:She was, of course she was.
Speaker 1:She was impervious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rules are rules.
Speaker 1:Rules are rules and the children were.
Speaker 2:We're not going to make an exception for you. We're going to make an exception. Sorry, that's my bad Kiwi accent.
Speaker 1:No, it's actually pretty good that we're going to.
Speaker 2:Anyway, you come from Sydney, that's what they say I know you're pretty disappointed about it. I had to pay it on the spot. Yes, that's right. There we are trying to save money. On a holiday I had to pay it on the spot. On the spot fine.
Speaker 1:I was like a Mandarin criminal. So, because of this Mandarin infraction, instead of us being able to go through customs, get in the car that David had organized and drive away, I was then stuck trying to work out where to pull the $400 from, and it was time consuming and very disappointing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so it was not the best outcome and let's not give you a hard time about it because you made no, you don't do no.
Speaker 1:Well, you Okay. So you want to give me a hard time? Go on.
Speaker 2:No, I don't want to give you a hard time, but look, it's a teachable moment and I think this is why we're sharing it Ooh teachable. You don't like that phrase.
Speaker 1:Go on. I don't like much today because I'm sick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had an opportunity to learn from it, and you know what were the critical thinking errors that you made running up to that moment when you had to pay the $400. Fine, go on. Well, I mean, you know. One of them is I think you suffered from something called a confidence bias, which is a bit similar to motivated reasoning. You were pretty clear, right. You were confident that you had cleaned all the fruit out of your bag, so it didn't occur to you to be any more vigilant than you were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, what happens is you? Because we're probably time poor, so we become assumptive and there's another term for it called Satisfying. Satisfying yes satisfying it's fascinating.
Speaker 2:It feels like a made-up word, but I think it's a combination of satisfied and suffice. Insofar as you go looking for something, you go looking for an answer to a question. You know, have I cleaned my bag out, is there any fruit in the bag? And you are satisfied by the first answer that suffices. You know it's the least costly option on the scale of possibility when you're looking for a mandarin in your bag. Is that there is no mandarin in your bag?
Speaker 1:Or fruit, or fruit. I haven't specified on the mandarin. I mean they say satisficing is a decision-making strategy where individuals choose an option that is good enough rather than striving for the absolute best or optimal solution.
Speaker 2:So it sort of involves setting a minimum standard for the decision making right when it's evaluative decision making, so you're evaluating your options in order to determine what you do next. I mean, it sometimes happens when you're considering buying something you might be evaluating. Have I got a good reason to buy this extra jumper?
Speaker 1:Jumper. Oh, so that's right. So I think online shopping, so you go online.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And, of course, what we're looking for when we get online is a dopamine hit right. You hit buy cart, go to cart, and you hit yes and then you put your credit card in and you bought something, and it's a great dopamine hit the brain goes yes so the dopamine hit is satisfying and that satisfaction suffices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it suffices as an answer for should I be doing this?
Speaker 1:Well, also it means that you don't have an extensive, so, instead of just going, this is what I do. I'm the opposite to my daughter, so I'll go in, and all I really want is to make the purchase.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'll go into a shop or let's just take the physical environment I'll go into a shop and I'll see something they'll like and it fits, it's sort of the right size and it's a satisficing option. Yeah, and I just want to buy it yes and and um, and so I do and you do, and without extensively comparing every available option, I don't extensively compare.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't compare the market and I did that to you too.
Speaker 1:I didn't extensively compare you as a husband option with every other available option. You didn't. I don't think I did. I mean it just was luck.
Speaker 2:Are you saying you satisficed in picking me?
Speaker 1:Well, if you think about it right I mean, I've been around the traps a bit, and then you came into the environment- yes, I came into the environment. And you were pretty charming, yeah, and then you talked about putting me in a play.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And because I'm an actor, I'm like you're very good looking.
Speaker 2:I did too. You did put me in a play. I did put you in a play.
Speaker 1:And you're very good looking. I did too. You did put me in a play, I did put you in a play and you're very good looking. Oh, thank you. And you're a good actor, et cetera, et cetera. Young, you know, virile, you know pretty good in a number of measures.
Speaker 2:This is uncommon disclosure from you.
Speaker 1:That's right, though, and then we started going out, and then you said do you want to marry me? And I was like, oh yeah, Okay. Now the fact that it's worked out, I think, is luck.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's a lot of luck.
Speaker 1:Well, there wasn't a lot of analysis. I didn't do an extensive comparative search did I All right.
Speaker 2:So you made an impulse buy and we've been lucky. That's how you basically sum up the last 30 years.
Speaker 1:I made an impulse buy because did I extensively compare every available option at the time? There was you and there was another actor who was taller than you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but do I need to remind you that you had entered your fourth decade at this particular?
Speaker 1:point. What do you mean? Third what?
Speaker 2:Your third decade? No, isn't it your fourth decade, when you passed the age of 30.?
Speaker 1:Oh, it was only just past. Oh, I tell you what. I think that's probably relevant, because I had been to a doctor, this female doctor, and I said to her I'm going out with this young actor and I don't know why I would have disclosed that to a doctor, and at the time I think I was 32, she said yeah, you're nearly past your most desirable age.
Speaker 2:Did the doctor use those words?
Speaker 1:Yeah, she said it wouldn't be. She said so. You know you better. If you want to have children, you better go for it.
Speaker 2:You better be satisfied with that dark-haired, you know young actor who's living in his panel van at the moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were living in a van. It wasn't ideal. Anyway, you know young actor who's living in his panel van at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were living in a van, it wasn't?
Speaker 1:ideal. Anyway, I enjoyed it. Yeah, no, you did.
Speaker 2:You never took up the invitation to come. You know van camping.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing because I do love a camp, I love a van, so this is the benefits of satisficing. Let's go there.
Speaker 2:Oh, there are benefits.
Speaker 1:Well, time and resource savings so satisficing can save significant time and effort by reducing the amount of searching and comparison required. So by me doing two things, one was just, you know, searching at the top of the bag.
Speaker 2:All right. Oh, we're back to the Mandarin.
Speaker 1:No, I'm about to get back to you.
Speaker 2:Okay, and secondly, I'm happy for you to stay with the Mandarin. No, no.
Speaker 1:And secondly, getting back to you, time was of the essence. I was getting a bit older. Yes, there was in those days we didn't think about red flags but there wasn't a lot of.
Speaker 2:That was a red flag for you, it was a red flag.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, I mean, you'd been around the block enough times to know that charming men sometimes are a bit um, unreliable. Yeah, and you were charming and highly complimentary.
Speaker 2:Well, I was smitten, you know I've made a decision. I wasn't going to let you get away, yeah anyway.
Speaker 1:And then there's the reduced cognitive load. It can simplify decision-making processes, particularly when faced with complex choices. So here I am I'm in my early 30s and some part of my brain, along with the doctor, telling me, must have gone. You'd better sort of get on with it, I think.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:And then I thought what am I going to go back in the market and what?
Speaker 2:You're taking relationship advice from a doctor. I mean you didn't talk about it with your mum or your girlfriends.
Speaker 1:I talked about it with my mother when I first met you and I was off men, and she said I said I've met this young actor. I had that tone too oh, I've met this young actor, and she said oh, ann, go out with him, you don't have to marry him.
Speaker 1:Um, and the other benefits of satisficing, just going back to this, is increased life satisfaction. So satisficers may experience greater life satisfaction because they're less prone to regret or comparison with others yes, until you meet a South Island border customs officer without a sense of humour. Yes, and that's the downside. Is this potential for suboptimal outcomes? And I think we make decisions a lot of the time on very surface evidence? Yeah, don't you think we?
Speaker 2:have to because it's a heuristic, it's a mental shortcut Exactly If you think about the cognitive load of navigating all of the decisions that one has to make in a day With the amount of stuff in the yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:What am I?
Speaker 2:going to wear? What am I going to eat for breakfast? What shoes am I going to wear? Am I going to take the bus? Am I going to drive in? And then, when you start talking to people who will I marry, should I recheck my bag to make sure that I've got everything that I need to take or that I'm not carrying anything that I'm not allowed to be taking? I mean, there's lots of decisions that you make, and a couple of the things that we know about the brain is that number one it likes homeostasis. Explain homeostasis.
Speaker 2:Homeostasis is like a steady state, right. The brain doesn't like it much when things change, and so you know, beneath the bonnet, you know the brain's always working to just keep things as they are because you know as they are feel safe and predictable and that's okay. What the brain also does is it'll take whatever shortcuts it can in order to preserve the energy that is required for conspicuously difficult situations.
Speaker 1:And also in this current well, in the sort of high-tech, high-information environment that we, you know that we find ourselves in, where there's a tsunami of information coming at us at breakneck speed on all our devices, constantly. Our decision making is just right up there. Right, what do I think? What do I believe? You know, who am I going to side with? And our brains are, what you know, are designed to live in small tribal groups where the outcomes of our relationships with people are not complex.
Speaker 1:We're not designed for this environment yeah so no wonder we take shortcuts, and no wonder we look at things on a surface level and then with the overconfidence bias go.
Speaker 2:No, that'll be all right. Yeah, yeah. So even at that stage, how many times had you been through border security?
Speaker 1:Good point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dozens and dozens and dozens.
Speaker 1:That's the availability bias right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, been here before, never had any trouble. You know I feel quite sanguine about answering the question. No, I don't have any fruit. So you know your mind was not on guard. You, you know, you, you were. It was easier for you to do the satisfying um decision making rather than the highly critical, because you had done border security so many times.
Speaker 1:That's right and that notion of the availability bias, which is what is most familiar, comes to our brain most rapidly. So the environment for me the airport environment, was highly, highly familiar, so I just didn't question, I just didn't ask enough questions, I did not think critically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she'll be right.
Speaker 1:She'll be right and really I'm trying to think how that translates to me marrying you Well.
Speaker 2:I'm actually feeling a little bit hurt here, oh go on. Yeah that you're putting me in the same fruit bowl as the mandarin.
Speaker 1:Don't make me laugh. We're just pausing for a minute to hear a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Reach out for a confidential one-on-one conversation using the link in the description or go to cooco.
Speaker 1:Sorry everybody. I've got conjunctivitis and I've got laryngitis. I do. I'm sorry about the sound of my voice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean, you're basically characterizing your decision to accept my marriage proposal as satisfying.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I don't mean that I I was. I was in love with you and pretty thrilled by the whole thing. I was thrilled, um. I guess what I'm saying is that I it wasn't like oh, maybe nobody does, I said it wasn't went. Hang on, hang on here a minute. Let's look at the veracity of this situation. So you were young.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're seven years younger than me, unemployed actor living in New York.
Speaker 2:Hang on a minute. What Unemployed. What you Was I, I don't know. I was just about to win my first major industry award, so that wasn't too bad.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you did win a Logie, that's true. So yeah, you won a Logie, and that probably influenced my thinking. Actually, I think it did.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're so superficial.
Speaker 1:I know I probably went. I'm on to a good thing here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Unemployed. To Logie winner, yes, but to Logie Winner.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But you were still young.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And if you looked at that situation on paper right, yep, and had a tally of left to right, was it a good decision? It was a good decision, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well.
Speaker 1:I'd like to think so. Well, it has been a good decision and I guess, maybe fundamentally because our values are very aligned.
Speaker 2:Maybe you did pick up on some kind of you know, subtle signals that were actually worth listening to, and that is that I found you really funny and really entertaining and um yeah, I, you know, I thought you were very talented, that's right, because I mean the first, the first night that we actually met, you were doing a play reading at the Griffin Theatre Company and I was running the play reading network and you turned up to read a play and I remember you were incredibly funny yeah, I am funny and um.
Speaker 2:And was I the only one who was laughing at?
Speaker 1:you. Yeah, pretty much yeah, and I appreciated that laugh. Yeah, I guess we're making a lot of these decisions in the subconscious part of our brains and maybe I had already sorted out a lot of wheat from the chaff.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because most of the relationships I'd had prior to you were disastrous. Yes, so on that sort of comparative end of things, you came off quite well.
Speaker 2:Right, disastrous. So on that sort of comparative end of things, you came off quite well, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wasn't as mad as some of the the, the lads who'd come before oh, I had, I'll tell you that that that boyfriend that I had who was a yoga teacher, and this is probably pretty much what's turned me off, the whole spiritual um, you know, men who are into sort of spirituality and um, you know meditation and um, you know just being, you know working on their consciousness, you know, he was awful, he was an awful, awful person.
Speaker 2:He wasn't nice to you, that's for sure he.
Speaker 1:He was insecure, he was nasty, he was potentially violent. Obviously he never hit me, but he was just an awful, awful person and I don't mind saying that. And it took me nine months to extricate myself from that relationship and it wasn't until you came along that I sort of finally did extricate myself from that relationship. I think I'd extricated myself just before that, but I couldn't get rid of him. He was like a bad smell, he was just vile.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it kind of worked in my favor Comparatively yeah. The contrast. I probably had a bit of a halo effect.
Speaker 1:You would have had the halo effect. You know you're funny, funny, talented, all those sort of things, not, um, and you didn't have that sort of fake, quasi spiritual feel about you which I loathe. Yeah, yeah, so maybe the halo effect. It's interesting how we what goes into the decisions that we make, and we know that there's thinking fast and thinking slow. We know this. There's the quick decisions that you make and then there's the more considered decisions that you make. These two systems of thinking.
Speaker 2:That's right, and it was the fast thinking that was in play when you were initially asked do you have any fruit in your?
Speaker 1:bag 100% fast thinking, fast thinking.
Speaker 2:Fast thinking, slow thinking might be. And is that what you're recommending? That even in these really familiar situations where it matters that our thinking is right and I guess I'm thinking about when we're travelling, like when we're talking to border guards, when we're trying to read a transportation schedule, when we're working out how to get from one place to another that in those situations we're making a lot of decisions and we can revert to confidence, bias, motivated reasoning, satisficing?
Speaker 1:Availability bias satisficing.
Speaker 2:We can do all of those sorts of things, and so the advice or the suggestion is that even in those situations, you practice just asking yourself the question. If I get this wrong what would it cost me? It's like when you're filling out a tax form or filling out an official document with the services New South Wales you know the government and they have the disclaimers at the bottom. You know incorrect data, you know there will be fines, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I must confess, I'm so used to seeing that.
Speaker 1:It doesn't hit your prefrontal cortex.
Speaker 2:Maybe, when we see those little warnings, those little disclaimers, we should just take the time to ask ourselves if I get this wrong, is it going to cost me? Is my thinking actually about confirming everything that I believe to be true, or am I thinking in order to discover where I might be wrong?
Speaker 1:And we really are. We are really looking for flaws in our own thinking in order to discover where I might be wrong and we really are. We are really looking for flaws in our own thinking. We are mainly just looking and searching the environment for data to confirm what we already think, which is confirmation bias. We are awash.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that issue with the Mandarin, it was quick thinking. Issue with the mandarin um, it was quick thinking. But if I, if I'd actually taken the time to go okay, I picked up this bag from home and I put things in it and I didn't actually check in the bottom of that pocket if I had done that, if I had taken the, the potential fine seriously and slowed down my thinking, I probably would have made a different decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And we do that all day, every day.
Speaker 2:And I think we missed the little hints. You know we missed those little hints. Maybe it is the bit at the bottom of the contract that says you know there will be penalties for misleading or false information.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I do remember that at the other end of the trip we made another mistake, that ended up being costly.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right.
Speaker 2:Because, you know, we had to get back to Christchurch Airport to fly out and I looked at our Google calendar and saw that we had to be at the airport at two o'clock and there was a little signal Part of my mind said now hang on a minute. When I did this itinerary, we were supposed to be at the airport at midday but it says 2 o'clock.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's look at that moment. Yeah, at that moment, at that moment, you've looked at the Google calendar and it says 2 o'clock, 2 o'clock, and your brain, a small part of your brain, has recollected that actually, when you booked it, it was 12 o'clock well, I thought it was.
Speaker 2:You know, I thought maybe. And then what?
Speaker 2:happened to your thinking well, um, I again I. I looked at it and said well, the google calendar is saying it. You know we don't have to be there until two o'clock. Well, that's great. It means we've got an extra couple of hours in the morning on our last day on the South Island of New Zealand. We can enjoy the ride. You know, we can stop, we can take photos, we can get snacks along the way. You know we don't have to rush to the airport, we were on the Canterbury Plains.
Speaker 1:I remember yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we don't have to rush. And that was attractive, you know, that was actually desirable. So I was thinking to myself. Part of my mind was going oh you, beauty, bonus, bonus, two extra hours, bonus, two extra hours, we don't have to rush.
Speaker 1:So, and we didn't rush, we took it nice and slow, so part of your brain has thrown up a flag that potentially this is not right.
Speaker 2:Potentially, this is not right.
Speaker 1:And your brain has overridden that. With what?
Speaker 2:A celebration that we've got an extra couple of hours and we don't need to rush, because I hate rushing on holidays.
Speaker 1:So what happened was the flag's gone up and you've plugged into a feeling which is this is actually a good and lucky outcome. I'm just going to discount that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to discount that because it gets in the way of the bonus.
Speaker 1:And so that thought gets sublimated, until we get a call.
Speaker 2:No, we didn't get a call. We actually started to do the online check-in.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, and they said the plane's gone.
Speaker 2:Well no, the plane hadn't gone Hadn't gone, but we realised that actually because we'd flown from one time zone into another one. We were looking at the Google calendar and the time frame had slipped. So, yes, the plane was, you know, we had to be at the airport at 2 pm Sydney. The plane was, you know, we had to be at the airport at 2pm Sydney, australian Eastern Standard Time, which was, of course, midday Christchurch, new Zealand time. Yeah, that's right, and so I did the calculation and we basically had to travel. Let's see an hour and a half's worth of distance in about 25 minutes.
Speaker 1:And I remember calling the airport and the woman said to me stop hurrying. Just stop it, you're not going to make it.
Speaker 2:Just forget it.
Speaker 1:Just forget it. Forget it, just forget it, and we had a really good time. We drove into Christchurch.
Speaker 2:We stayed an extra night.
Speaker 1:It was awesome.
Speaker 2:We drove into Christchurch. That's right, we stayed an extra night. It was awesome. We did stay an extra night. Children were thrilled. We had a great look at Christchurch and the rebuilding that had been done after the earthquake and we wandered through the shopping precinct that was made up of old shipping containers oh that's right. That's right, it was cool. However, we did have to book entirely new tickets. Oh yeah, it was really expensive. We did have to book another extra night. We did have to book, you know, extra car hire time.
Speaker 1:So, between the Mandarin and the extra nights accommodation, the brand new flights and the extra car hire.
Speaker 2:We completely blew the budget.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we would have been a couple of grand over easy peasy.
Speaker 2:Oh, we would have been a couple of grand over easy peasy, oh, easy peasy. And again, not that we are, you know, complete idiots, but we are.
Speaker 1:Well, there was a bit of idiocy, wasn't there? Okay, we're complete idiots, yeah.
Speaker 2:Susceptible to critical thinking errors.
Speaker 1:And the thing is that that moment, when you, when you um, took your mind away from um, that inkling of doubt, that's motivated reasoning. You didn't want that to be right and so you went toward your brain, went towards motivated reasoning. We trick ourselves all the time and these tricks are expensive emotionally. Yeah, and these tricks are expensive financially and psychologically, yeah, right, yeah, is that a cat in that window up there? Look, harry, can you see up in that window? Is that a cat? Sorry, I got distracted.
Speaker 2:There's a cat in the very, but I'm the one with ADHD. Is that correct?
Speaker 1:I don't have ADHD, I'm just very interested in animals. Okay, so let's just before we finish off, I just want to say that this satisficing which is going for the easiest possible first option can also happen in all sorts of contexts, like you're going for a job, yes.
Speaker 1:Here's a job Seems okay. You know you won't have to go through another job interview. May as well take it. That is satisficing. If you haven't actually searched the market and seen what the most optimal you know, you could be missing out on great things. So there's upsides and downsides to satisficing.
Speaker 2:It's dissatisfying. If you're looking for a reason to take the suggestion of the person trying to sell you something, if you're trying to find a good reason and you come up with a reason like, well, if I don't buy it today, I'm going to have to spend more tomorrow and you're happy with that reason, then you'll take that reason. That actually may not be the right reason to buy no reason. Then you'll take that reason. That actually may not be the right reason to buy no. So the advice is, even even with some of these micro decisions that we're making, ask yourself if I get this wrong, what will it cost?
Speaker 2:me you know, ask yourself um, am I looking for a am will lead to a good decision, or am I just looking for evidence that confirms what I want to be true?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and am I just looking for evidence that has the least amount of cognitive load? Yeah, it's just the easiest thing to do.
Speaker 2:The easiest thing to do, and that's me with shopping. And in those situations, take your time.
Speaker 1:See, I go shopping with Lily. I see the first thing I go, I want that that looks good. And she goes put it back, Mum, there's not even a nice colour, Put it back. She actually takes my hand and takes it off the hanger. Lily, my daughter.
Speaker 2:I've seen the magnitude of our daughter's wardrobe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what's with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is with that? What is with that? Clearly, you need to go shopping with her and return the favour.
Speaker 1:Well, when I go shopping with her, she really takes a long time to make a decision drives me insane. I go yeah, that looks really good, buy that because, I'm a super impatient person.
Speaker 1:She goes no, I'm just going to think about it, but obviously she goes. And I'm just going to think about it, but obviously she goes and thinks about it and buys 10 of them. So I'm just going to say that one more time. Satisficing is a decision making strategy or cognitive heuristic that entails searching through the available alternatives until an acceptability threshold is met, without necessarily maximizing any specific objectives okay.
Speaker 2:So now that I've understood that, I do not think that that word is appropriate for our relationship okay, no, it's not.
Speaker 1:But it's not because it's great. But all I'm saying is that I just didn't go through some exhaustive search process. You know, you looked really good and you were nice and it was good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What have I said? The wrong thing.
Speaker 2:No no it's okay.
Speaker 1:No it's worked out really well. But I mean, you don't know who anybody is. Come on, look, let's face it, it's a lot of. It is a game of luck. You don't know a single person until it's two o'clock in the morning and the baby's crying and you've run out of baby formula. That is the measure. Not saying that we don't keep a close and vigilant eye out for red flags, because we must. People give themselves away all the time, but if there's no red flags and the person is a nice like you are a nice, reasonable, not you know good human being, we still don't know, do we, until we're under pressure, how we're going to behave, how we're going to respond. And that is the measure. That is the measure of a stable relationship, as if you can undergo pressure together and not kill each other.
Speaker 2:Okay, so are you prepared to answer? Would you describe that? Your decision to say yes? Was that satisfying or was it something else?
Speaker 1:It was love it was love.
Speaker 2:Okay, because I loved you. Yeah, okay, because I loved you. Yeah okay, I think I need another.
Speaker 1:Mandarin. Well, I hope you found that interesting that journey we travelled between the Mandarin and David and Maya's relationship and how we make these decisions.
Speaker 2:And the early years, and maybe you've learnt a new word today.
Speaker 1:I really like it. I think I use it a lot Satisfying. I go, that'll do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I do, I go, that'll do.
Speaker 2:And so it's sometimes a good strategy. It is, it's easy.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:But it can cost you.
Speaker 1:It can.
Speaker 2:In a micro decision in an airport.
Speaker 1:It can, yeah. So on that note, smart women, thank you so much for tuning in. I'm truly sorry about my voice. There is a series of horrible viruses that are sweeping Sydney at the moment and I was lucky enough to pick one up. So thank you very much for tuning in. See you next time. Bye, thanks for tuning into why Smart Women with me.
Speaker 1:Annie McCubbin, I hope today's episode has ignited your curiosity and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Join me next time as we continue to unravel the fascinating layers of our brains and develop ways to sort out the fact from the fiction and the over 6 000 thoughts we have in the course of every day. Remember, intelligence isn't enough. You can be as smart as paint, but it's not just about what you know, it's about how you think. And in all this talk of whether or not you can trust your gut. If you ever feel unsafe, whether it's in the street, at work, car park, in a bar or in your own home, please, please, respect that gut feeling. Staying safe needs to be our primary objective. We can build better lives, but we have to stay safe to do that. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies. Together, we're hopefully reshaping the narrative around women and making better decisions. So until next time, stay sharp, stay savvy and keep your critical thinking hat shiny. This is Annie McCubbin signing off from why Smart Women See you later.
Speaker 1:This episode was produced by Harrison Hess. It was executive produced and written by me, annie McCubbin.
