Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
Australia is an amazing place to live. Snarky, Dave and Annie ask, ‘ Why do the cookers feel oppressed?’
The disturbing connection between anti-vaccination groups and neo-Nazi recruitment has been laid bare in this eye-opening conversation with two dedicated misinformation fighters. What begins as skepticism about vaccines can become a dangerous pipeline to extremism, as revealed by the neo-Nazi leader who openly admitted: "Half of our recruitment in the past two years has come from the freedom or anti-vax movements."
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This is part two of my talk with the snarky Gherkin and Dave from the vaccination station. If you didn't hear part one, maybe have a little listen before you tune into this ep. Thanks Bye. You are listening to the why Smart Women podcast, the podcast that helps smart women work out why we repeatedly make the wrong decisions and how to make better ones From relationships, career choices, finances, to faux fur jackets and kale smoothies. Every moment of every day, we're making decisions. Let's make them good ones.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, annie McCubbin, and, as a woman of a certain age, I've made my own share of really bad decisions. Not my husband, I don't mean him, though. I did go through some shockers to find him and I wish this podcast had been around to save me from myself. This podcast will give you insights into the working of your own brain, which will blow your mind. I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land in which I'm recording and you are listening on this day. Always was If we can just segue into how the anti-vax movement has sort of been co-opted by some dangerous right-wing factions. Can we talk about that Snarky and what you've been?
Speaker 1:analyzing with that at the moment.
Speaker 2:For sure I'll do a bit of a shout-out. Tom Sanurki did a fantastic video on this a couple of weeks ago, or actually about a week ago, on an event that occurred a few weeks ago. I'll send you the link to put in the notes so it sort of all flows into sort of what's occurring now. So a few weeks ago, of an Islamic religious I think it was a Shia procession passing St Patrick's Cathedral in Melbourne and it was a real nothing burger. The Archbishop of the, the Catholic Archbishop, issued a statement to say, hey, this is a procession that happens every year. This is, you know, please, we don't just not wanting any drama out of this.
Speaker 2:So, but Nick Patterson, who I don't know sees himself as a warrior of Christ sort of type thing, tried to get a bit of a you know, defend Christian values gathering together and it was a bit of a fizzle. A hundred people showed up but in that group there were neo-Nazis there, and I actually mean neo-Nazis. Like I sometimes cringe when, you know, the word Nazi gets thrown around pretty flippantly. But these people are actually the NSN, the National Socialist, you know group. So they were there and they behind the scenes, apparently Nick had said, had given them permission to come, but just don't come in uniform and just keep the Zikal stuff sort of on the down low.
Speaker 1:Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Abiy Yemeni from Rebel News, was there and then suddenly there's a bit of back and forth, sort of started to, you know, a bit of shade at one another. So that gathering ended in someone getting punched and police came, broke it up and it was yeah, it was just a bit of a shit show. So what's then occurred since then? The head of the NSN, which is the neo-Nazi movement they've put out a threat to Nick Patterson to say, hey, we'll be coming to your next events.
Speaker 1:Hang on, hang on. Sorry, so I'm confused now. So there's Nick Patterson who's? So I'm confused now. So there's nick patterson who's the which is he?
Speaker 2:also so nick patterson he's. He was started a a sort of a vigilante group called the peacemakers.
Speaker 2:So during the jesus guy, yeah, he's the guy that got dropped like a bag of spuds by by vic pole when, when they tried to, they they sort of it. It kind of morphed. So they they during all the anti-lockdown movements. They started a group called the peacemakers and they were sort of the, the muscle behind some of these groups and and then try to keeping the peace, as they say. Um, they were antagonizing the police to to sort of to to fight and you know cop bashing type rhetoric.
Speaker 2:So Nick Patterson, bit of background. So he had a gym during the COVID lockdowns and he refused to follow the shutdown orders and so he got some sort of mild fame within the anti-lockdown movement and so then, so he's got a bit of history. He's been on the down low for a couple of years. He, during a pretty famous confrontation with the police he ran up and just got completely decked and he's probably spent the last or the following two years in in sort of litigation. So that's all cleared up and he's he's really set again as this.
Speaker 2:His new identity now is this sort of warrior christ person thingo defending australian christian values and and all that jazz. So he's sort of far right christian group got. It has had confrontation. So, um, sure enough, the nsn, which is the australian neo-nazi group, they were there as well, and then they've had a confrontation. So there was a bit of um, nick patterson appears to be quite close with rv eminy from rebel news, and so the allegation from the nsn types is well, hang on, why are you, um, what? Why are you mingling with with, with this israeli or or jewish person? So, and then that's when, okay, right, so you've got this sort of christian or Jewish person, yadda, yadda yadda, oh, okay, right, so you've got this sort of.
Speaker 1:Christian warrior person, and then you've got the Nazis.
Speaker 2:The Nazis, that's right, I mean, I just assume. I mean it seems like they're pretty tolerant of one another. So Nick Patterson had said to them that yeah, you can come, but just keep it on the down-low sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Stop Zik-Heiling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't say the quiet bits out loud, and we're sweet to bolster the numbers. So, thomas, I think it's yeah. So then there's been a bit of a punch-up. So since then, the head of the NSN I won't say his name, but he's just made it really clear that or he released a statement to say that we've made many friendships with so many people in the freedom movement and the Christian groups involved Probably half of our recruitment in the past two years has come from the freedom or anti-vax movements.
Speaker 1:Okay, so just to clarify, this is the guy, just for the listeners. So this is the guy that is the current head of the neo-Nazis.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And he is making it very clear that they are actually co-opting people and enlisting people from the anti-vax. And just to explain to people the anti-vaxes often come on a platform of freedom. What they think is that any sort of government lockdown or any sort of government mandate is actually impacting on their freedom, when in fact it's complete rubbish. It actually allows us to be free because we are protected as a society. But anyway, that's their thought. So what's happened is the neo-Nazis are now enlisting the freedom-fighting anti-vaxxers correct, that's right. And it's an easy funnel because the whole anti-vaxxers correct.
Speaker 2:That's right and it's an easy funnel because the whole anti-vaxx movement is just stoked on paranoia, it's stoked on misinformation. There's always dog whistles, that anybody with a scary-sounding name with an animal in it, whether it be a wolf or something, they're always the bad guys and there's always Jewish connotations with that. So every you know and it's always been the same sort of dog whistle. So it's a really easy funnel for like and as the NSN has said, over the last two years 50% of their current members were recruited through the quote-unquote freedom movement because it's an easy pivot, it's an easy pivot.
Speaker 2:So this is the. You know. It's not to say that every anti-vaxxer is a is a neo-nazi, but it does appear that most neo-nazis are anti-vaxxers, and it's, it's, it's, and so I've the last week or so, since this has been made really clear, I've there's been a lot of infighting within the various sort of quicker anti-vax freedom groups.
Speaker 1:I've seen yep.
Speaker 2:For those listening sort of abroad. There's now a group, a grassroots group, to take back Australia and it's March for Australia, due to the end of August, but it's the same old.
Speaker 1:And what do they want? Snarky, what are this? Take back Australia, madness. What do they want?
Speaker 2:End mass immigration and stand up for our country. And it's only Australian flags that are going to be there, only white people. I think so. I mean from what I've seen in some of the comments around, you know so there's some sort of free journalists as they call themselves independent journalists who have non-Anglo-European backgrounds. I've seen threats to them like if you show up, you're going to cop it, and things like that. So it's really nasty some of the rhetoric around this. I think it's probably going to be a bit of a fizzer.
Speaker 1:When is it happening this March?
Speaker 2:It is supposed to be the. I think it's the 28th of no, let me double check here it's the 31st of August.
Speaker 1:Right in Melbourne.
Speaker 2:Well, it's saying across all cities and the exact location. But from what I've gathered, I've looked at the domain, the name behind the IP address of the Marchforaustraliaorg, and he seems to be a Melbourne chap. So I think that's probably going to be the epicentre of all this. So it's all. I probably haven't explained it very well. No, no, you have.
Speaker 1:I just think the fact that you can live in Australia and have so little comprehension of what it's like to live in a non-democratic country, and that you could seriously consider that we don't have freedom here, is breathtaking, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. So it's been interesting for a lot of observers. So seeing a lot of these groups just tearing themselves apart, a famous one being, uh, monica smith from reignite democracy. She, she jumped in headfirst, as she does on all these things. Um, I sort of take the joke that that she's discovered that she can't drift out of it. So she's now sort of decided that it's not for her. She has publicly said actually this, even for her, this, this stinks, and and again, I've I've got mountains of um you know, things that she's said over the last five years which are complete, you know, just dog whistles and and um, all sorts to those groups. So even she's saying, actually this, this probably stinks, um, I've, I've put it to her that she just doesn't get to sort of pull the the brakes on these things.
Speaker 1:It's something that she's she't get to sort of pull the brakes on these things.
Speaker 2:She doesn't like it. She's fuelled this for you know, the last five years, oh, 100%. You know the innuendo, the uncertainty, the paranoia, the you know the sharing of. You know Jewish names behind sponsors, behind certain vaccines and all this so you just don't get to sort of just stop the train and get off. This is something that they should be held accountable for, and that's my take on it.
Speaker 1:I was interesting when I was talking to Michael Marshall, who's a very, very prominent British sceptic. He's the president of the Merseyside Skeptics. He's been in for 20 years, he's done enormous work on it, and he was saying that this collision between anti-vaxxers and these extreme right-wing movements like the neo-Nazis, and he was saying the problem is, is that once you move into an anti-vax community, then you're probably you've been alienated from your family, right? You're the strange uncle that's not allowed to come to the christening because you won't get vaccinated, right, so you're already alienated. That's not allowed to come to the christening because you won't get vaccinated, right, so you're already alienated. So then you've found a new tribe, because we're tribally brained, you want to belong somewhere, and then there's this new tribe that starts talking um, sort of spewing racist garbage, but at that point you're already alienated. You've already found a new community. So if you then go, go, well, actually I don't agree with this. Where do you go? Like you're then, then you're nowhere.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Where are you going to go to find a new community? You're already marginalized, you're already ostracized, and it's a very interesting point, right.
Speaker 2:It is. I remember early days in the pandemic there was a lot of the anti-vaxxers, especially in Australia because we had the luxury of keeping the virus.
Speaker 2:You know like it was, by most part, kept out of the country. So there are a lot of anti-vaxxers here that would insist that the virus didn't exist. Yeah, and that I remember one, one prominent anti-vaxxer saying I'm going to knock out the first person that tells me that they've ever had covid and yada, yada, yada. So the absolute. It was like a fish tank full of piranhas. When some of these anti-vaxxers started getting COVID, that community just absolutely swarmed on them like a tank of piranhas. It was insane. I think they all agree now that it's a combination of yeah, it does exist, but it's not as bad, or it exists because it's a bioweapon, it's just a cold.
Speaker 2:It's just a cold and it's just the flu, which actually the flu is quite devastating.
Speaker 1:Dangerous.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's a lot going on at the moment. We're calling it the Cooker Civil War. New lines are being drawn. It's one of those things, you know. There's a couple of prominent anti-vaxxers that are on the page that we run and just start from point blank. Do you disavow these people? And they won't say it. They will not say you know what screw. There comes a point. Maybe we have a little bit of common ground in that. Yeah, nazis are bad, let's start there. We can disagree on other things, and they just won't. They will not say it.
Speaker 1:Dave, do you have anything to add to this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, two points. Firstly, you will never get the right wing fully united. They have too many points of difference among them. They have always tried to spread a broad net, or at least the most ambitious ones have always tried to spread a broad net and say look, you know, we all have these general principles. We agree on too many factions which are laser focused on their own little issues, whether it's the jews, whether it's you know um non-whites, whether it's something else, whether it's morality, in in, in secular culture, whatever.
Speaker 3:There's too much fragmentation and and that has always been the case wherever you go anywhere in the western world, the, the hard right has always fragmented hopelessly to its own detriment. So you'll get a few nutters going out there saying some stuff and the others will go. This is too much for us, or this is the wrong focus, or whatever it. I I agree with snike. I think this is largely going to get a fizzle out. The fact that they have to recruit from the so-called freedom movement shows just how little support they really have for their avowed core values. They cannot recruit. Naturally, they've got a poach from other groups who have a some similar interests on a handful of points can I ask you why you think the right wing?
Speaker 2:oh sorry, snarky oh, just brilliantly said David. Yeah, nothing else to add.
Speaker 1:Dave, why do you think the right wing does fracture so avidly?
Speaker 3:Firstly, there is a whole string of different hard right ideologies, from the guys who want to do it purely for the sake of nationalism, the guys who want to do it for the sake of racism, the guys who want to do it for the sake of racism, the guys who want to do it for the sake of racism and nationalism, the guys who are Christian and want to do it for the sake of Christianity, and some Christian white nationalism. Then there is the people who are the guys who are the pagans and think it's better to go back to pre-pagan nationalism. There are simply too many competing ideologies and there's not enough in common. When in America they had the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, what happened? It all fell apart. It was a spectacular failure, and the very fact that they had to hold a Unite the Right rally shows that they know this is a problem.
Speaker 1:And there's the anti-woke. Now, right, anti-woke is another big tendril, isn't it?
Speaker 3:There's too much fragmentation and there's too many people who want to be the boss and simply grift off the whole thing. There's too many grifters as well. Nobody can trust anybody. Everyone's always dubbing each other in the back. Everyone wants their ideology to be the main one. Each other in the back, everyone wants their ideology to be the main one.
Speaker 3:The second point I want to make is my anti-vax work is primarily focused on the American anti-vax movement. Why? Because the American anti-vax movement is the biggest in the world, the most influential it has, you know, it has the most tendrils and it puts out most of the anti-vax material in the western world. In australia the anti-vax movement is toothless. They are largely irrelevant. I pay virtually no attention to the domestic anti-vax movement because it has absolutely no power whatsoever. They don't have a kennedy figure. They don't have people in office who are changing government policy to match anti-vax preferences, nothing like that. There's a tiny handful of irrelevant nobodies piggybacking on the work of American anti-vaxxers. So my job is to focus primarily on the biggest voices and the worst sources of anti-vax propaganda.
Speaker 3:The other thing is it is important to show anti-vaxxers that many of their arguments that they use are American-centric. Oh, doctors are paid so much and they get this huge incentive from insurance companies. These kinds of arguments do not work. The moment you step outside America, oh, but the healthcare system is driven by insurance companies, totally controlled by insurance companies and big pharma. That argument completely falls apart when you move to the rest of the Western world where we have universal health care. That is a major issue for anti-vaxxers. Their arguments fall apart the moment you step outside America, and that is something that needs to be driven home time and time again.
Speaker 1:And how do you do that? How do you count? Sorry, you go snarky.
Speaker 2:I was just going to touch on this. It's an interesting point and something I've touched on before, especially around like the insurance industry and the health in the American sense. To some extent they're at odds because the insurance companies that are having to pay these exorbitant costs for these treatments and these medications et cetera, so it's not actually economical for them. Let's say, if you buy into the anti-vax argument that it's all just a big fraud. It's like most insurance companies, like the profit margins are very, very minimal.
Speaker 1:I didn't understand that. Do you mind re-saying that?
Speaker 2:I lost you yeah yeah, so the profit ratio for a lot of insurance companies? They're probably making five cents out of every dollar worth of premium, because, of the For what? For paying out for the treatments of private healthcare in the US. So the argument that this is all just a big rort and they're just trying to generate money for themselves in the US. So the argument that this is all just a big rort and they're just trying to generate money for themselves in the US.
Speaker 1:My thought would be well.
Speaker 2:Wouldn't the insurance industry then push back on the pharmaceutical industry, because they're assessing the treatments and the medications and the costs that the hospitals are essentially putting to the insurance companies to pay? They have their own assessors. I don't know if I'm making sense, maybe just cut it out, but it's like they're not in cahoots, the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical or medical industries. They're actually at odds because it's the insurance companies that are having to pay the costs of these treatments. And so I don't know, I'm probably just thinking out loud. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:But maybe just cut it. It's okay. But there's just the overarching notion that there is sort of the organisations are all in cahoots and are trying to get to the little man, right?
Speaker 2:Well, that's right and you know, the health insurers in Australia are almost on the brink of collapse. It's not profitable. They need government subsidy, so it's not as super profitable when people say, oh, it's the big pharma and the insurers and they're all in cahoots and it's like, well, they're actually adults with each other.
Speaker 1:I think that's right. So, dave, how do you counter this American argument? Because RFK terrifies me because of the funding that's now being ripped out of all the research. Right, it's terrible, it's going to affect us, right?
Speaker 3:Well, one point I want to bring up is that Snarky has really nailed it here. The insurance argument is a classic self-own by anti-vaxxers. It's an amazing foot shot. If they want to argue that vaccines are bad and they can prove this by the fact that insurance companies incentivize vaccination by paying clinics to make sure that they maintain a certain quota then they need to explain how that benefits the insurance companies. Insurance companies make money when people are well and they lose money when people are sick because they have to pay out. Why would an insurance company incentivize vaccination?
Speaker 3:if vaccination makes you sick, it makes no sense they incentivize vaccination because it keeps people healthy, so they don't lose money, and the amount they pay to these practices these medical practices not directly to doctors, as is commonly assumed is negligible in the grand scheme of things, utterly negligible.
Speaker 1:Are you talking America or here?
Speaker 3:I'm talking America, but also here in Australia. It's less of an issue here.
Speaker 2:It's even more so yeah.
Speaker 3:It's more relevant in Australia here because we have universal health care, whereas in America it's all largely run by the private sector and by the health insurance industry. The one argument that does work in America is that prices are massively inflated in America because the insurance companies are involved and because they can work with healthcare providers to gain the system to their advantage. But that's a completely different matter and it's an issue for America to solve and has no relevance to anyone else outside America.
Speaker 1:Right, got it, so how do I push back?
Speaker 3:against this? Ok, well, firstly, I go looking for standard arguments. I go looking for standard arguments for new arguments, for latest claims. I go looking on social media. Twitter is obviously one of the best places still to find anti-vax propaganda. What's the latest claim they're making? There's a study that's come out. Anti-vaxxers are saying it proves this. I go looking for the study. I go looking for the standard professionals that I follow who are very good at debunking this sort of stuff. I scoop together the information. I follow who are very good at debunking this sort of stuff. I scoop together the information, I compress it into a manageable format, into a few hundred words in the form of an infographic with some sources, and then I put it out on the vaccination station.
Speaker 1:And do you disseminate that in America?
Speaker 3:I put it out on Facebook so it goes out everywhere. Yeah, most of my followers on Facebook the majority are American, so it gets, I know it goes straight out to a predominantly American audience, which is very convenient for me.
Speaker 1:Right, okay.
Speaker 3:And with other stuff. I will sit down and directly write a detailed rebuttal. When Kennedy came out with his book the Real Anthony Fauci, which is just one big long libel from start to finish, I sat down, I got hold of a copy of the book and I sat down and I wrote a book that refutes it point by point and I can send you a link to that book if you're interested. But the book is called In Defense of Fauci. It took me about three months to hammer out. I got the advice and support and um of some medical professionals and, uh, the introduction is written by dr jonathan howard, who's written his own book uh, own books against um kennedy stuff and and other anti-vax stuff, and he was generous enough to write the introduction for me. He's a really great guy. I've interviewed him on my podcast. He's definitely worth following on on social media.
Speaker 1:So you you like snarky both of you um do what you do. Um. You have children, you have a family, you have a job. I'll get to you in a minute snarky how, what keeps you going, and like, how do you fit it in?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm a private tutor, so I work from home, so I have time to do a lot of this stuff anyway, which is fine. But you know, sometimes it just takes a lot of late night, like when I was writing my book. I literally pulled a lot of late night all nighters. I stayed up till you know five in the morning finishing a chapter to make sure I could get this book out in time. And sometimes that's what it takes. But I'm just driven by a burning desire to support public health and to push back against the grifters who make obscene amounts of money by exploiting people's gullibility and causing damage to the wider community through the things that they do and say.
Speaker 1:And what about you Snarky? Because I know you also are managing. I think you've got a family. You're managing a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean what I do is by no means as comprehensive as what Dave does or what a lot of other people do, but it is really just trying to balance. You know, like the commute sort of to and from the CBD can, you know, be an hour sometimes each way, so that affords me some time. But yeah, once the kids are down and you know the household's quiet it's, you know, we jump on and try to do what we can.
Speaker 1:And do you have the support of your families to do this?
Speaker 2:Broadly. Yeah, my wife's pretty cool, she's pretty awesome. So, yeah, they, they know that what, what we do and just you know, it's just a bit of a at the moment. It's it's just trying to debunk some nonsense, debunk some dangerous messaging and and uh, yeah, but that's that's it. I mean it as sort of um, this, this page that I've got, is growing far far from my forward.
Speaker 1:I know it's amazing.
Speaker 2:So it's definitely worth putting some more time and resources in and seeing if there's a technological kind of way to assist as well, because it's all just done from my phone. So perhaps investing in a laptop or something might help with some of the content. But yeah, so for now I mean it's essentially just posting sort of memes and doing some deep dives here and there. It's by no means as detailed as what the likes of David's doing.
Speaker 1:Well, no, you know, don't diminish it. Don't diminish it. Snarky, your profile is fantastic and the use of humour, as we know, is super effective. It's why I wrote my two comedic books on critical thinking, just because I was reading all the books, you know, written by men, and they were boring and they were dry and no one was reading them. So I thought, well, I'm going to do something that's sort of funny and that's been really good. I don't have much of a presence on Facebook. I've got TikTok and I've got my podcast, but you've both inspired me to keep at it because, honestly, sometimes I turn on the news and I see the latest thing that RFK does and I get this feeling in the pit of my stomach and it just, it, just the frustration that I experienced in that moment. I just I feel like almost lost in this swamp of madness at the moment.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, we have to keep going, right it's almost like that that old churchill quote comes to mind about the americans uh, during the second world war, where he says the? U, the US, will eventually do the right thing once they've tried everything else. And I feel like this at the moment this is America's okay, let's just try everything else first. And I'm sure, by you know, in 2027, 2028, the pendulum should have slung and we'll be, back to normalcy.
Speaker 2:Do you think that? I think so. It's what I tell myself, just looking at it from a historical perspective, I think there's probably. I'm by no means up to speed with American politics as in-depth as other people, but I think that the midterms of next year, I think they'll get absolutely trashed, and then that's when the sort of well, if you think only 60% of the voting population turned up on election day.
Speaker 2:You know, slightly more than 30% voted for Trump and slightly less for the other side, so I think a lot of people. Well, we'll see. I mean, I'm happy to eat my words, you know.
Speaker 2:Get the remind me box to come back to us, but I think a lot of people that were reluctant to even show up last year will show up in numbers. I think he's burnt a lot of political capital, even with conservatives. I follow a number of sort of moderate, more sort of fiscal conservatives in the US and they're just completely bewildered with what's happened? It's really just going to be the sort of the fringe hangers-on. I think that'll, that'll stays. And I said that's what I tell myself, but who knows?
Speaker 1:what do you think, dave?
Speaker 3:uh well, firstly, I I want to mention that, um, I discuss my vaccination station work quite often with my wife and kids and they are all very supportive, which is great. And secondly, one thing which is which is something I think is worth remembering for those of us who do push back against this and stuff and it's something I've mentioned to my kids on a number of occasions social media is not reality. Social media is a curated environment. Some of them are less curated than others, but by and large they are curated environments with their own echo chambers and subsets of echo chambers. As a result, the torrent of anti-science stuff that you often see on social media, which can be very exhausting, can be overwhelming, can leave you with the feeling that, wow, you know, is there any point?
Speaker 3:Most of that is happening only on social media and not very, not very much elsewhere in in real life, like, for example, in australia. As I mentioned before, the anti-vax community here is, on life support, no jab, no pay and no jab, no play overwhelmingly supported these policies, overwhelmingly supported by australians across the nation. There's strong support for vaccination on both sides of the political aisle. There has never been an issue. So, in when you step back from social media and look at real life, at least here in australia, which is, you know, obviously one of the saner western countries. Um, you can see for yourself anti-vaxxers are definitely not winning here, and that is worth reminding yourself of every now, now and then, whenever you see just how bad things are.
Speaker 1:That's good advice. That's really good advice. It can be quite dispiriting otherwise, can't it?
Speaker 3:Sure, things are bad in the US and they are getting worse in the US now that Kennedy's brought his little wrecking ball, et cetera. That is a problem for the US to solve. We can do our best to support our own allies in the US, but by and large, that is a an issue we need to remember, is not our problem and it is not something that actually directly affects australia, at least in terms of of policy and stuff like that. That would have a major difference. So it's important to keep this in perspective. Remember social media is not reality. A lot of people agreeing on social media is not the same as a lot of people agreeing in reality.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And that is worth keeping in mind because it helps to keep things in perspective and reassure you that you know what, ultimately, a lot of these people are clinging to a very small minority position that just happens to be extremely loud, and that is worth keeping in mind.
Speaker 1:And can I ask you one more question? You talked before. I know we're going to have to wrap it up soon. You talked before about how fractured the extreme right is. Why isn't the left as fractured?
Speaker 3:fractured, ironically, the left. I think the left is less fractured because it just doesn't seem to have the same kind of factionalism that the right does. Obviously there are factions on the left and I'm speaking mainly in the context of American politics here, because this is where it all mainly mainly starts but the left seems to be better at a border tent approach and there's actually less diversity in views among the left on big issues, like I was. I was looking at a graph. I can't remember where I found it. I have to go looking for it. I got a graph in an infographic showing the diversity of views on left and right sides of the American political spectrum, and it's actually much broader on the right. Now I don't know precisely why that is. That's something for sociologists and political analysts to explain, and maybe at some point I'll get around to doing an infographic on that, because I did find it interesting.
Speaker 3:But what that means is and the right was celebrating it the right was sharing this graphic on social media saying see, look, we are so much more minded, we have so much more diversity of views on our side. We have so much more diversity of views on our side. However, it's a double-edged sword, because that does mean that when it comes to some specific issues like racism and nationalism and white supremacy and that kind of thing, there is actually less scope for creating a large united bloc. It means that there's a great deal of factionalism, there's a great deal of infighting, there is very little agreement and it is very difficult for, say, the hardest factions to cooperate with the more centrist factions, and that is one of the reasons, I think, why the right wing is so fractured in America.
Speaker 1:Awesome, that's a great explanation. So is there anything else that you'd like to say before we wrap it up, dave?
Speaker 3:I just want to say thank you so much to everyone who supports the vaccination station. Just a follow is great, just a share is fantastic. It helps keep my organic reach higher and makes sure that the information gets to the people who need to see it.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thank you, hey Snarky. Anything else you'd like to add to the discussion?
Speaker 2:Not particularly. It's been great to meet you virtually, dave, and glad that we've made a new friend and will eagerly await the angry sub stacks that will be no doubt critiquing uh the our tone of voices and um and and every little, uh, well, they won't look to debunk anything we've actually said. They'll, they'll just look to to criticize us personally, but hope to do this again another time and it's uh, it's just. I could just sit and listen to you both all day. But yeah, it's been great Me too.
Speaker 1:I'd just like to congratulate myself on my amazing ventriloquist skills and the fact that I have single-handedly produced three voices today, yep.
Speaker 3:It's been great.
Speaker 1:I know I am the creator of Snarky and Dave. It's all me, that's she. I just can't tell you how thrilled I am that you both came on and how inspiring I find it to talk to people with a similar outlook to me and who are fighting the good fight in a good-natured and humorous way. And you guys are just awesome and I would really love it if you would both come back on again because I think between the three of us we've got some interesting perspectives. Do you agree? I think so.
Speaker 3:I think we've got some great perspectives, we've got good chemistry and we have shared goals, and that's really what you need for this kind of work yeah, absolutely, um all right.
Speaker 1:Well, I will bid you both a fond farewell um. Thank you, dave, thank you snarky thank you, thank you very much all right, take care. I'm going to go and um take care of my non-covid with some horse paste, so um talk soon, see you later.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna look up an enema place now, so I'll be yeah, can you stop saying?
Speaker 1:oh my god, you've made me think about it. No, I like it I don't know, coffee enema isn't doing it for me anymore. I like the progression to the turmeric enema also the fact that it's yellow and snarky sort of green. I don't't know something about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sort of the colour palette's working right. Jokes aside, on a jab vaccination, no non-jab dating page. They're pushing the turmeric pretty heavy there to stop the mRNAs or whatever, even though we've all got billions of them in our bodies. But that's where that comes from.
Speaker 1:What does it do? It stops the mRNAs.
Speaker 2:It stops the mRNAs, which doesn't make sense because we need mRNA messenger RNAs to live. But it's yeah. The turmeric is supposed to counter the mRNAs, apparently. So it's like okay, like yeah.
Speaker 1:I had a one of the fellows that used to work for us was an Indian national. I think he was from Kerala, and he said turmeric is the most disgusting thing. He said it's like his mother was putting mud in his food, he said it's just he could not understand how it had taken such a sort of prime position in the old. It's lovely in a curry.
Speaker 2:But old med-science, that's lovely Nakari, but yeah, that's it, that's it, Jim Rick it's so awful it is.
Speaker 1:It's a long long time ago I'll just quickly finish with this story when I was in my 20s and I was on a search for something for my asthma and somebody put me on a Chinese, traditional Chinese doctor, and he made me boil up herbs um, which I then had to imbibe. I think it was twice a day. It was the most disgusting process. It stank the house out, it was revolting and I had to drink it. Maybe you want to throw up, and yet apparently this was going to fix my asthma and I'm here to report it did not. It did not fix my asthma. I was as bad as when I started, I just felt more nauseous and it stunk the flood up.
Speaker 1:So just be careful what you take into your bodies, people yeah, no, that's it on that lovely note of chinese herbs and and and um turmeric enemas, I'm going to bid you both a fond farewell. See you later thank you thanks, bye.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning into why smart women with me, annie mccubbin. I hope today's episode has ignited your curiosity and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Join me next time as we continue to unravel the fascinating layers of our brains and develop ways to sort out the fact from the fiction and the over 6,000 thoughts we have in the course of every day. Remember, intelligence isn't enough. You can be as smart as paint, but it's not just about what you know, it's about how you think. And in all this talk of whether or not you can trust your gut, if you ever feel unsafe, whether it's in the street, at work, in a car park, in a bar or in your own home, please, please respect that gut feeling. Staying safe needs to be our primary objective. We can build better lives, but we have to stay safe to do that. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies. Together we're hopefully reshaping the narrative around women and making better decisions. So until next time, stay sharp, stay savvy and keep your critical thinking hat shiny. This is Annie McCubbin signing off from why Smart Women. See you later.
Speaker 1:This episode was produced by Harrison Hess. It was executive produced and written by me, Annie McCubbin.
