Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
Sock, Surgeons, And Clear Thinking
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You are listening to the Why Smart Women Podcast, the podcast that helps smart women work out why we repeatedly make the wrong decisions and how to make better ones. From relationships, career choices, finances, to faux fur jackets and chaos movies. Every moment of every day, we're making decisions. Let's make them good ones. I'm your host, Annie McCubbin, and as a woman of a certain age, I've made my own pair of really bad decisions. Not my husband. I don't mean him, but I did go through some shockers to find him. And I wish this podcast had been around to save me from myself. This podcast will give you insights into the working of your own brain, which will blow your mind. I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I'm recording, and you are listening on this day. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land. Well, hello, smart women, and welcome back to the Why Smart Women Podcast. Today I am broadcasting from DY, the Northern Beaches, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. And it's a little bit of a difficult day here for David and I because our Grudel rider, the Golden Grudel, um has swallowed something he shouldn't. We think possibly a sock. Do we think a sock?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, maybe a sock. It's kind of it's kind of so domestic and and unimpressive that it should have done so much damage to him.
SPEAKER_01:He's always had a a propensity for swallowing socks, underwear, and gloves. Um but we think it's a sock because we live in this apartment block and there's a a garden, a communal garden just beyond our courtyard. And my neighbour said to me, There was a sock here, it was a black sock that had Adidas on it, and now it's missing. So maybe that's what he's eaten. And my husband or David said, Yeah, well, he'd seen him playing with it. Anyway, so so yesterday um he he be became ill, and we sort of kept an eye on him all day, and um, you know, he wouldn't eat, which is very unusual, isn't it, David?
SPEAKER_00:It's very unusual that he wouldn't eat.
SPEAKER_01:And he was um very lethargic.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, look, I mean it was obvious, it was it was it was acutely obvious that was something was wrong earlier in the day when I noticed that he was trying to vomit something up. And it wasn't just that kind of involuntary, you know, something's coming.
SPEAKER_01:It's almost like he Well, don't go into too much detail, don't, don't because it's awful for our listeners. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Don't go, don't all I can say was, you know, he's he got into a position where his body would con convulse and delivered too much vomiting detail.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so the ladies can't cope with it. I can barely cope with it anyway.
SPEAKER_00:I'm sorry, ladies.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if we say ladies anymore. It could not be maybe it's not right.
SPEAKER_00:The women. I'm sorry, women.
SPEAKER_01:Women, anyway. The women can't anyway, anyway. As you know, he's he's having some surgery at the moment.
SPEAKER_00:As you can hear, we are emotionally on edge. Yeah, we are.
SPEAKER_01:We are it's actually been really awful. So it has been awful. Awful. So what we thought we'd talk about as we're right, smack in the middle of it, is how to practice critical thinking when you're under pressure. Because when you're under pressure and you're very emotional, that's when your thinking gets hijacked.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. And we and in in the course of this conversation, I think we're gonna identify some of the very specific moments where Nanny and I felt our own thinking being hijacked by emotion and conspiracy the theories and and possibly, you know, uh uh sending us in directions that weren't helpful.
SPEAKER_01:So uh we get to about eight o'clock last night, and the dog is looking very unwell. Very lethargic. I think that there is some plot by animals and actually small children as well to do that they save it till Sunday night. They save everything until the weekend and also public holidays when everything's shut. I I remember that from when our children were small. They would always wait until Saturday night, Sunday to have some dreadful thing happen. Remember, Lachlan had some eye thing, and and we had to try and find an eye hospital and it was Sunday, and it was actually it was New Year's Day, and that the the eye hospital we went to that was full of people who'd been glassed in the cross. Anyway, so there's always this issue anyway. So Sunday night is so it was Sunday night. Sunday night here in Sydney. The dog is deteriorating, so we we stick the dog in the car.
SPEAKER_00:No, hang on a second. Can I just can I just talk about that that early moment? Because I've been I've been saying throughout the day, you know, I I noticed him trying to um Don't go back to the vomiting description. Make himself feel okay earlier in the day. Uh and um and you know, it it it may come as no surprise that Annie was worried before I was.
SPEAKER_01:Um I kept saying, you know, You said things like, Look, let's let his own body try and deal with it as opposed to a vet.
SPEAKER_00:Which is what he's always done.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but he doesn't normally do that that many times anyway. He progressively got worse. David was sort of more sanguine. I I'm never sanguine to do with anything with health.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, look, I uh and I remember saying to you, you know, I mean we we were talking throughout the day, you know, should we take him to the vet? And I was saying, look, if we take him to the vet, then he's gonna be, you know, prodded and poked and have things pushed in his mouth and and and other places, and it's gonna be really uncomfortable for him. Why don't we just kind of let this thing work its way through his system? Um however, yes, he was lethargic, and um we were sitting out on the grass and I was just kind of you know giving him a a nice relaxing pat. Um and I just noticed that he was completely immobile. Now either he was really relaxed um or very, very tired, or there was something else wrong, and I tried to get him up. It actually took me a couple of seconds before he was going to stir again, and I thought, uh oh no, this is um this is serious, we do have to do something about it.
SPEAKER_01:So we um get in the car and we go to a local emergency vet hospital. So, right, all right.
SPEAKER_00:So And as we were driving there, would you would you say that um that you were worried that something catastrophic was going to happen, or or was it just uh you know, purely, oh let's go get the dog diagnosed?
SPEAKER_01:No, I always think something catastrophic is going to happen. Okay I live in a world where something catastrophic is going to happen. Yeah. The m the worst case scenario is automatically where my reflexive thinking goes, and then I have to come back from that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Because when you're there, it's like uh how does that influence your you know your powers of critical thinking?
SPEAKER_01:That that that that particular emotional state. Yes. Oh, well, of course I just want something to fix it super quick. Yes. Just whatever it takes is fix it, right? That's yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So so so I guess our I guess our our premise, and that is that sometimes when we are in a highly emotional state, um that is when we are not sort of naturally inclined to employ critical thinking, we're probably more inclined to go with our emotions, magical thinking, you know. If I if I if if if I pray, maybe he'll be alright. If or if we spend enough money on it, then he'll come back the way we want him to come back. It's it's that kind of slippery slope when we're when we're highly emotional.
SPEAKER_01:That's that that is correct. So if I may go back. So we get to this vet hospital, it's very nice, it's very clean, pretty, um, you know, it's tea making, coffee making facilities, everyone's super friendly.
SPEAKER_00:Did you notice that it was staffed by attractive young women?
SPEAKER_01:No, but you did.
SPEAKER_00:I did.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I I mean, and and and and this goes to the this goes to what I think is a very clever um She's friendly, veryone was very friendly and warm.
SPEAKER_01:Friendly, warm and caring. Super warm.
SPEAKER_00:Warm to us, warm to the dog.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, everyone was super warm and caring. So, you know, so we get in there and then we sit for a minute, and then we go in, a nurse comes out and she does his vitals, and then we go into a room with a um a vet, and she looks at him and we establish that he has had a um historical propensity to eat things that he actually shouldn't be eating, like underwear, socks, and gloves, and anything else he can get his paws on. So then she says we would need to do an x-ray to see what is going on with him.
SPEAKER_00:Packaging.
SPEAKER_01:So then she starts to talk very quickly about um the set of diagnostics that they could do. And they could do an x-ray, and the x-ray could tell us whether or not he f swallowed a foreign object. Um and then she said also we'd do blood tests for check for to check for any other issues. And I said, Well, hang on, if you're going if we discover that it is an issue that he has swallowed a foreign object, then obviously it's not another issue, so why would you do those blood tests? At that point, you would do them later if the foreign object business has been discounted.
SPEAKER_00:And can I just point out, you know, that that was a moment when you actually did apply critical thinking. Because in that moment, um the whole environment, I think, is geared to getting you to say yes to anything. To anything, to uh to absolutely anything.
SPEAKER_01:And that is, I think that's to do with the authority bias. So you're in a position, and I think this happens in in other contexts as well, don't you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, you you walk into an area where you're dealing with professionals of a certain kind.
SPEAKER_01:Like mechanics.
SPEAKER_00:Like mechanics, uh, like bankers, um, you know, like um like builders.
SPEAKER_01:Ah, builders, you know, the builders.
SPEAKER_00:The the the the building renovator who comes over and has a look at your eaves and says, oh gee, I don't like the way that that was done first time. That's going to be expensive to fix.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, builders is a really, really good one. And the thing is, um we have a propensity to listen to people um that are authoritative. It's called the um the authority bias. So somebody that sounds very certain um and is authorit that has author an authoritative manner is likely to sway our thinking. And she was very lovely, very pleasant, but she was very certain and she had an authoritative manner. And I mean, of course, she understands the insides of dogs, and you and you we do not understand the inside of dogs, right? So, um, and the other thing is that she mentioned the price of this really, really early, didn't she? Like, yeah, which which leads you to which bias, David?
SPEAKER_00:The price of it. Well, I mean, by by mentioning the pu the price very, very early, what they're doing is they're actually setting um a um uh it's the anchoring bias. That's right, yeah. They're you know they're they're anchoring the uh the idea that um yes we can save the dog, but um it's probably gonna cost between six and you know ten thousand dollars based on what we currently know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so again, you are anchored to that first amount, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and and once you agree to it, and and that was the that was that was the thing that was part of the hospital's business process, you know, very early on. Um here's an estimate, sign that. Um and because you're in an emotional state, you want to sign that really, really quickly, authorize all of this stuff and committing to to a process, to tests, to monitoring, etc., which may not be absolutely necessary.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the other thing that is in play there, and it's the same thing as when um a salesperson says, Do you like this dress that you're trying on? And you go, Yes, I do. And then we feel really bad if you turn around and say, No, I don't want it, because we are strongly driven by a cognitive bias called the consistency bias. So once I've said yes, we are compelled, we feel compelled to agree. So she's trying to get us to say yes. And the other um part of it is is that you're, you know, we he is a beloved animal, you know, he's a he's a very important and loved member of our family, and there's some sort of emotional dynamic at play whereby you start thinking, well, all she wants to do is do some perfectly reasonable blood tests, what sort of dog parent are you that you wouldn't just agree if you love the dog? Yeah, if you love the dog, you'd say yes to it. You'd say yes, right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So it it's your your your cognitive thinking skills in these sort of situations are absolutely under attack.
SPEAKER_00:And and and so in an environment where the friendly, warm, attractive people who have welcomed you lovingly, who have said nice things to your dog, who have reassured you that you're absolutely in the right place, then say, you know, we want you to, you know, sign up to you know between six and ten thousand dollars worth of stuff, um, it is very difficult to resist. So what do you do in that moment? You slow it down, you know, you just take a take take a deep breath. And then if you want to if you want to just uh look into say why are these things included? You know, you can ask a question. So why is it that we would do the blood test for the x-ray? Before the x-ray, when the x-ray may actually suggest that the blood test is not necessary. And again, this isn't a Douglas Hanley Moyer blood test that goes on your Medicare card. You know, this this blood test is is$500.
SPEAKER_01:Um and and so I I I but we we'd been there about, I don't know, 40 minutes and we were already up to three grand.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. That's right. And and so that's the um and and that's the that's the sunk cost, isn't it? That's the sunk cost. You know, we're we've done that this much, you know. We're on the train and and so we might as well keep going.
SPEAKER_01:Explain the sunk cost.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the sunk cost is is is if you've is if you've spent time or money or you know, emotional energy into something, yeah, and then you realize that actually it's not for you, it's more difficult to then extricate yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. So it you know, it can happen in all sorts of contexts. Um the sunk cost fallacy can be at play. You know, when you get on the phone and it's like, um, thank you for your call. Um you know, we we we're you are the you are the fifth caller in the queue. And you think, well, I've been on the phone for 15 minutes, um, I may as well just hang on. I've already spent that time, and you find yourself an hour later, whereas actually it's a bit a bit of a fallacy, it's a it's a cognitive flaw. And the other place, of course, it shows up is you know, I've been in this relationship um for 18 years, how can I walk out now? Yeah because of the the sunk cost of it. So sunk cost can is is a a really big player in the quality of our thinking because it's like, well, you know, I've spent 5,000, what does it matter if I spend another three, right?
SPEAKER_00:And I've got to say that uh, you know, I I I was pretty malleable and um and uh I don't think you were. You you don't think so?
SPEAKER_01:No, not at all. Really? No, I thought you held your line really well.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I I I I was I was impressed and inspired by you when you when when you did actually take a breath and you asked, you know, why are we doing it in that way, and then and then requesting that they approach it in a in a way that actually made more sense to us. And uh and they could see the sense in that. That was that that was fair enough.
SPEAKER_01:Although when we exited the vet room with the pretty vet and got out to the front desk with another pretty girl and she handed me the um the invoice, which you know was as I said, you know, was was going up by about a thousand dollars. Thousands.
SPEAKER_00:I I know that if if you were to piece together some of my comments on the on the issue, right, it it could I could certainly sound like one of those people who is just absolutely vigilant that no one is ever going to take them for a ride.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you're not like that at all.
SPEAKER_00:But um, you know what? No, like I I I could I could indulge that part of myself that is suspicious.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's an interesting point because being um ubiquitously suspicious is no more um um using your critical thinking skills as just being gullible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's right.
SPEAKER_01:It's all the same. Like you if you you you have to be looking at every issue and applying your critical thinking to every single issue, not just going on on a sort of a road that sort of feels right. Either they're trying to rip you off, yes, right? Or they're um they're just the most beautiful people in the whole world and why don't you buy everything?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that that that that that's right. And and and you know, you you you you seem to think that I'm not a a tremendously suspicious person, but it doesn't take long for me to think about a business model whereby you're looking after people's pets in an emergency situation. Yes, you can charge an astronomical margin on that, um, and it makes sense to have people at the front desk who are warm and friendly and who love dogs, and you know it it it it's not easy, sorry, it's not difficult for me to imagine how I could really think that they are taking us for a ride. And the I think the the dynamic is that when you are in an environment where you are clearly lacking in status, power, and authority, you know, like when you are with the builder, the mechanic, the police officer, or the surgeons, the experience of not having power in that relationship can lead some people to think that automatically they're going to be taken advantage of.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Oh, well, see that that's where you end up with a lot of the conspirator this conspiratorial thinking um that's going on at the moment. I'm I'm sure it's in the States and Canada as well, but it's very, very prevalent in Australia, of um we will not accede to the demands of the government. Like it, you know, it's it's so it's so mad and uh and sort of anti-authoritarian but but really misplaced and terribly generic.
SPEAKER_00:You know, so the um Yeah, the generic possibility is that when a human being finds themselves in a in a relationship, in a in a situation where they have no power, they can immediately go to I'm going to be exploited here. And so I think that the the reframe that was important for us last night um were us was us to just simply re reflect on on the vet's perspective. I mean, they are liable for the animals that come into their care. They have professional ethics, they have standard procedures, you know, they of course they have overheads. You know, they are going to be more expensive. You know, to get a specialist surgeon at one o'clock in the morning on a Sunday evening, you know, it's it's of course that's going to be more expensive. So, I mean, what we really had to do was to recognise our own biases that might have been coming to the conclusion that the bill's being padded, and then actually shift to to problem solving, you know, to ask the question, so if we don't do that blood test, what are you worried about? Or, you know, if we don't, if we don't you know put him on a drip, what are the concerns? And um and that way it it we move from being casting ourselves to victims to actually being partners in, you know, in in the dog's care. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. So I think in these sort of sort of highly emotional situations where you're sort of hyper-aroused and I could feel it in myself, you know, I had I had the the full gamut of um anxiety symptoms coursing through my body. You have to slow down the process. It's essential that you stop, g go for a short walk, have a cup of tea, take a big breath, do something that actually intervenes in the downward spiral of your thinking.
SPEAKER_00:Because in situations like this, and and and this was our experience, the professionals did regularly defer to us and say they did. What is it that you want to do? You know, do you want him operated here at this hospital, or would you prefer that he went to your local vet, you know, the people that know him?
SPEAKER_01:And I guess what you're talking about there is is um, you know, we were handed some decisions, but only decisions that we were actually capable of making. I mean, clinical decisions we haven't got a clue about. But you need to be using metacognition, thinking about your thinking. And I think at one point uh when they called us this morning, and the vet said to David, um, you can either have the surgery here, so this is this very SMIC um this very, very SMIC emergency vet, and he said, You can have the surgery here because we are all highly trained specialist surgeons, or argument from authority, argument from authority, or you can have the you can have him operated on at your vet. Now, they're very good, but they are GPs and actually specialist trained surgeons. So there is so much in that one statement. Um, there's argument from authority, yes, yes, isn't there? Yes indeed. There's a bit of a putting you emotionally over a barrel, like how much do you care about the dog?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:If you really cared about the dog, why wouldn't you go for the top surgeon? Why would you go for a uh you know a suburban GP? You would use the special You would use the specialist.
SPEAKER_00:You would use the specialist sur uh But m in my mind, um just my experience of the entire place um is that in the specialist hospital that exists to do surgeries on animals who have got themselves into trouble, um, you know, my suspicion is that they'd probably be a bit more trigger happy, you know, that they would be happy to use their expensive machines and and and highly you know highly le highly highly experienced surgeons to do this job when actually a less interventionist route might have been possible, and I thought that he'd probably get that at the GP at the at the local vets.
SPEAKER_01:What you said, which I thought was right, when he said that, which I thought was very loaded, um very, very loaded, you know, around how much do we care about the dog, what you said was, which of course is correct when you're put into these positions, is how long do we have to make this decision? Yeah. Because there's so much in that that can be used to trigger you emotionally to make a poor decision that you what you need is time to rationally think through your thinking. So that's metacognition. Yeah, it's like metacognition thinking about your thinking. You're not you cannot make an accurate decision in those sorts of situations unless you give yourself time to overcome your biases. This notion that I really like, which is treat your feelings as hypotheses, not conclusions.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean we don't want to make emotions the enemy.
SPEAKER_01:No, we don't. We ex that's the other side of it. Yeah, absolutely. Emotions are not they're not the absolute pristine truth. It's an emotion, it's a feeling, but at the same time, we absolutely need feelings to guide us as well, right?
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. I mean, right back at the start of the story, you were quite anxious about writer's demeanor, and I was not so anxious about writers' demeanor. Neither of our emotional states was the whole truth, but they were just kind of as you say, you know, they were they were informing what we thought was actually going on. Yeah. Um, I had more evidence, then I got emotional, I got worried about him, and then I thought, well, if Annie's worried about him and I'm worried about him, then that's it. Let's take him to the let's take him to the vet. Um, you know, the emotions that that we had when we were in there, I mean, yes, we were we were relieved, you know, we were relieved that we were in the safe place.
SPEAKER_01:Just being in a clinical environment and that somebody was going to, you know, help him, I immediately felt better. Yes. Immediately.
SPEAKER_00:And then when they started throwing these astronomical numbers at me, I was feeling confused. You know? I was feeling confused. And the hypothesis you felt sick.
SPEAKER_01:And and then I and then I got I got into bed and then I just couldn't sleep because I I kept thinking about what was the right thing to do, and then worrying that Ryder was on his own with with and wouldn't know where he was. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:And and and so we should we shouldn't we shouldn't shame ourselves. You you you can't, you know, uh take people feeling emotional in these situations as some kind of failure or markdown. Those emotions actually do help us to make decisions because they are closely linked to what we value and and and what we want to preserve. But yes, the emotion is not the conclusion.
SPEAKER_01:No, the emotion is just the hypothesis, and and it is absolutely part of the frame. It's just not the whole frame, correct?
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So I think if you just sort of have a bit of a, you know, if we just go back over the whole thing, and we will let you know on Thursday how Rider is because he's still in surgery, which is really awful. Um so look, when your heart is beating out of your chest, which mine was, that is your cue to slow your thinking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And when you don't agree to everything that is offered to you by the builder, the mechanic, or the surgeon, it's not that you're necessarily distrusting people, it's about tracking your own reasoning.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Remaining present with your thinking in the dynamic, right? You're not handing it over completely.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's really key. It's just occurred to me. You're not just handing it over the whole premise, you're going, I'm involved in this, to the degree to which I can be, to the degree to uh the knowledge that I have.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah. And and you know, I I I'm I'm doing a lot of thinking about collaboration at the moment, you know, collaboration as a as a skill and as a discipline that you can bring into all sorts of environments. And I do think that to go into the healthcare system or into any of these kind of projects where you're working with a professional and maybe an expensive professional, you get the balance right so that you are in a collaborative relationship with that person that you step up. You know, you don't necessarily wait for them to offer to collaborate with you, yeah, but you send signals early on that this is what collaboration means to me. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:This is my to do that. I think you're the you know, we've all got not all of us, but I know I've got approval seeking, and so do you. I think you've sort of got to disengage from your pro your approval seeking. Like I'm gonna say something, and maybe I won't be approved of in this minute, right? Yes, maybe it it's not gonna make them like me more, and that's gonna make you uncomfortable, but maybe that's what's necessary. Yes. Even with her last night, when I had to say, Well, I don't think this bit's necessary.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, the lady at the uh at the hospital.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I guess there was a part of me that just wanted to go, oh my god, just spend just whatever you think. Just tell just with the money is of no object, just save the dog. Right? There was a part of me that wanted to be seen as a pet owner with extreme largesse.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, like like like Shirley McLean in terms of endearing endearment.
SPEAKER_01:Running around hitting this the thing.
SPEAKER_00:So saying, Save my dog.
SPEAKER_01:Save my dog, save my dog. So I mean, I think that the summary that we can think about is you know, the emotional reason, you know, confusing feeling with fact.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, right?
SPEAKER_01:You know, name the emotion that you're having, which is very hard when you're under pressure, and then look for the evidence, ask for evidence.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm frightened, I'm suspicious, I'm um I'm um wary.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then, of course, this is very much in play is the authority bias, so over-relying on experts. And what should you do instead, David?
SPEAKER_00:Well, we we do rely on experts, but we can ask. But but but we can ask them to share their reasoning. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, how how do you how how how do you how do you reason your way through this diagnosis, you know, to to to this kind of treatment? Don't just reassure me that he's going to be all right if you do what you say. Tell me why you are holding that particular view.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so um anchoring bias, the first number shapes all our judgments. That first number really lodges itself in our brain. So you have to put that aside and do what, David?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, you just you can respectfully ask the question um, what does that cover? You know, why is it such a large total? Um, is this the final amount? Are any variations possible? Yeah. Yeah, just seek to understand the number, knowing that when that number is agreed to, it'll probably then be anchored.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So the availability heuristic, you know, I know um, you know, it it it's it's like the we're much more likely to be frightened getting in an aeroplane as opposed to driving our car, but in actuality you are in much. More danger of having an accident driving to the corner shop than you are flying around the world, and that is the reality of the data. But it's the availability heuristic. Um, you know, plane accidents are very dramatic, so they lodge in the front of our brains, and they're what come to mind. So what comes to mind when your dog becomes ill is every story you've ever heard, horror stories about dogs becoming ill and something terrible happening to them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So the thing to ask is You know, is it is this typical in this situation, or is it just a is it just a heuristic?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. Is this typical or is it memorable? The sunk cost fallacy, look, we've come this far, we've already spent six grand, you know, what's another three? It's an absolute trap, and it's it traps us, as I said before earlier in the podcast, it traps us in relationships, it traps us in phone calls, and it traps us financially.
SPEAKER_00:So cast yourself as a partner in the collaboration, and every new decision is a new decision. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's yeah, yeah, you you don't you don't you don't fall into the trap of saying, oh what's another six grand?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and confirmation bias. So um, you know, confirm we we cherry pick the environment and only and only notice things which agree with what we already think. So the only way to actually um get out of the trap, the massive trap of confirmation bias is David.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the way to get out of that is to um is to almost like apply the scientific method, you know? How could I be wrong? Search for for disconfirming information, yeah. Uh and um and have the have the internal stability to actually ask yourself, you know, how can I be wrong about this?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So that's our that's our where we are currently with our beloved Grudel. We are still waiting to hear how he is, um, and we will let you know on Thursday. So um thank you very much for listening to our story. It's been a bit traumatic. Um me, I don't drink Monday or Tuesday nights because I'm a rule, fairly rule-bound person, but tonight I'm gonna have a big glass of Sauignon Blanc.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm gonna pour it for you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. So thank you, David, for joining me.
SPEAKER_00:You're you're very welcome.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. And um thank you so much, listeners, for tuning in. Stay safe, stay well, keep your critical thinking hats on. See you soon. Bye. Oh, can you please subscribe? That's what I had to say. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, Richard Saunders told me, who is um has the Skeptic Zone podcast, that I have to ask at the end of every episode to please subscribe. And I've never done that because I'm a little bit useless. So Harry will put I don't know how to do that. Harry will put something in the link.
SPEAKER_00:Harry will put something in the link. Yeah. And um, and know that um that that that any support for the Why Smart Women podcast is actually going to return a lovely grudel to full health. We're gonna have to pay these bills and uh maybe the podcast can earn a bit of money.
SPEAKER_01:It's hilarious. Thanks, guys. See you later. Bye. Thanks for tuning in to Why Smart Women with me, Annie McCubbin. I hope today's episode has ignited your curiosity and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Join me next time as we continue to unravel the fascinating layers of our brains and develop ways to sort out the fact from the fiction and the over 6,000 thoughts we have in the course of every day. Remember, intelligence isn't enough. You can be as smart as paint, but it's not just about what you know, it's about how you think. And in all this talk of whether or not you can trust your gut. If you ever feel unsafe, whether it's in the street, work, car park, in a bar, or in your own home, please, please respect that gut feeling. Staying safe needs to be our primary objective. We can build better lives, but we have to stay safe to do that. And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies. Together we're hopefully reshaping the narrative around women and making better decisions. So until next time, stay sharp, stay savvy, and keep your critical thinking hat shiny. This is Annie McCubbin signing off from White Smart Women. See you later. This episode was produced by Harrison Hest. It was executive produced and written by me, Annie McCubbin.
