Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
The Snarky Gherkin talks Cookers, Beef Tallow and Microplastics..
We dig into Australia’s “Cooker Wars,” why online hype didn’t translate into real marches, and how grifters turn fear into sales. Along the way we unpack media tactics, harmful pseudoscience, and what you can actually do about microplastics without falling for scams.
• who the “cookers” are and why their marches flopped
• how online engagement misleads organisers and followers
• splinter groups, date confusion and poor logistics
• the grift model from vaccine myths to EMF gadgets
• selective-edit media tactics and why anecdotes seduce
• racism and anti‑immigration pivots framed as “vetting”
• real risks of microplastics and practical mitigation
• why detox claims and black salve are dangerous
• questions to test claims, sources and motives
Thank you so much for tuning in. And as always, stay safe, stay well
Proudly sponsored by COUP — helping brands cut through the noise with bold, smart marketing. Visit the http://coup.co website or book a meeting with us at. https://go.oncehub.com/RequestMeeting
Well, hello, smart women, and welcome back to the Why Smart Women Podcast. It is a beautiful sunny day today in um in downtown Sydney. I am podcasting from the Northern Beaches, and as soon as I have finished recording this, I am going down to DY where I will dive into the surf. Sorry to make people that are entering a European winter jealous, but there you have it. And today I am talking with my favourite debunking gherkin, the Snarky Gherkin. Hi, Snarky.
SPEAKER_00:Hi Annie, thanks for having me back. It's a rare, beautiful day in Melbourne as well.
SPEAKER_04:Is it?
SPEAKER_00:It was first day of summer, it was 13 and rain, but I'm glad to say a few days in I think we might hit the the high 20s today, which is nice.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, so um I don't know if everybody's listening. I don't know if people record their temperatures in um Fahrenheit or Celsius, but here in Australia we record them um in Celsius. Is that right? That's right, isn't it? Yeah. Is that right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It is what it is in Fahrenheit though.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, don't worry. But 13 degrees um for summer is a little on the disappointing side.
SPEAKER_00:That's it. I might as well move to move to England. Yeah, just move there now.
SPEAKER_04:Actually, it's it's weirdly been cold here. Oh, Annie, shut up about the weather. Okay. Um, all right. So look, Snarky, it's been an interesting couple of weeks um following the latest attempts um at running a march um by the cookers, would you say?
SPEAKER_00:That's it. The last time we we met, I I got tongue-tied in trying to sort of abbreviate the different groups that were were competing for the the sort of the cooker ticket. Yeah, but we've just seen now the the second iteration of or guess the splinter part of that movement happen now. So it it was and and as expected, it was a complete flop.
SPEAKER_04:Um okay, so what's um I I just always try and reframe everything just in case we have new listeners. Um and we every week we look and there is somebody else from another um fascinating part of the world that is tuning in. Um so here in Australia we have fringe groups um that we call the cookers that are made up of um conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, and um lately um people that seem to hate everybody that's not white. Um so that's how I would broadly describe it. And um these sort of these disparate groups of um people that seem to be unhappy and have a strong sense of being disenfranchised societally generally, um they are trying to get together and form sort of protest marches across this great country of ours. And the thing that confuses us is who is attending the marches, who is running the marches, and what are they trying to achieve? That would be right, isn't it, Snarky?
SPEAKER_00:Broadly, that's that's right. A lot of these people uh became personalities during various lock covert lockdowns in Australia, especially in Melbourne.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so a lot of them have them have been relatively sort of low engagement, low, low attention for the last couple of years, since we've all just got back to normal, despite their predictions. So some of them have um have found a new calling and have have really just pivoted now. I I've been calling it the reheated leftovers of of the anti-lockdown movement, and that's essentially what it is.
SPEAKER_04:It's it's the same old faces trying to same old faces, all trying to sort of interestingly how pretty much all of them are unemployed. Um and and also I don't know if you know Jay Jay Hernandez or Fernandez, I think, and he's been broadcasting from his mother's bathroom um or cellar pretty much since the start. And um he he he he has a a a fine selection of things that he's unhappy with um and just seems to drink to not work and and drink a vast amount of vodka in mum's bathroom.
SPEAKER_00:So I mean he's the irony is as well, he's he's he's a child, he's a child of Polish migrants, isn't he? Or or something. I'm not I don't know his what is his what is his name?
SPEAKER_04:Is it Hernandez or Fan? I can't I think it's Hernandez.
SPEAKER_00:Is that it's Hernandez, but but it's not his real name. Uh I don't know his real name, but it's not that, but that's his internet name, or whether it's his mum's maiden name or something. I'm not sure where Hernandez comes from because my confusion was because again, he he refers to himself as as Polish. I've been to Poland many times and have Polish friends. I'm like, I'm not not sure where where the Hernandez uh line comes from in Poland. It's not not a not the most Polish name in the world, uh, but but yeah, I've had I've been corrected that no, it's not his actual name and Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_04:So he's using a name, but he he seems to just spend a lot of time in his mother's bathroom record recording and and and and broadcasting. Um and and I do and and just not working. I mean, I I don't know what these people do, but he doesn't seem to actually, you know, strike a blow in any particular direction. But there's an awful lot that he is unhappy about. And oh that's right. He's the one that wants um that's very keen on finding an an unvaccinated woman so that that doesn't so that he doesn't get shed on. I don't know. They've got this weird thing about vaccinated people shed something, shed proteins or pipe proteins or something. It's weird.
SPEAKER_00:There's a running meme that whenever whenever there's a a a a single female uh anti-vaxxer that that enters the chat that Jay sends them a private message, and it's a bit of a sort of a a running joke at the moment that he's yeah, he's he's forever on on a quest to find his beloved non non-vaccinated woman. Um yeah. So but he's he's he's one of these people. I mean he's not well, bless him. Uh, but he's like very opinionated, really hasn't achieved anything of any worth, very opinionated uh on on all sorts of things, but uh doesn't exhibit any of those traits himself, you know. Um which traits? He'll well he'll he'll criticize uh you know migrants coming here for work and he doesn't just just everything and it it's it's just for uh the things he criticizes it is just him projecting, you know. Again, he's I I don't know his full family history, but I'm I'm pretty sure his mother or father are from Poland. They migrated here from essentially what would have been in the 80s a you know a a developing country. Uh and so yeah, I I just is he's a he's a contradiction wrapped in an enigma, you know.
SPEAKER_04:But a lot of them are, a lot of them are actually children of migrants, you know, complaining vociferously about people coming into the country. Also, the the latest thing I heard from um Monica Smith is she just wants people to be properly vetted when they come into the country and to not go straight on to um um social handouts. I don't I don't know which is a good idea.
SPEAKER_00:Well her wishes uh have have come true. I mean it it's it's intensely difficult to get a a a visa to come to Australia. Um you know, it and it's not there aren't handouts automatically available for when people arrive here. Like it's just if she'd actually stop and spoke to anyone who who is currently here on a skilled migration visa or any visa for that matter, she'd find that oh yeah, you you can't just you know, you can't just rock up to local CenterLink and and claim and you know, but again, it's it's projection because she's she's probably been on CenterLink for a long time and she's worried that her slice of the pie is gonna get shortened because you know all these other people coming, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So that's Monica Smith, who um is was one of the organizers of the now that would have been the Melbourne um anti-immigration cooker march, is that right?
SPEAKER_00:So she she ran the whole March, no, put Australia First, which was a a a sort of a breakaway from the March for Australia crowd, just just for the too long didn't read version. There was going back back earlier in the year, um, there was this March for Australia movement, I guess you'd call it, and then Monica Smith saw an opportunity, you know, it was quite a lucrative following, and she saw an opportunity to create her own version of that. So she put in some reasons that oh, it's because of you know neo-Nazis and things and nipple trade it. And she's she's danced with those people the neonazis, lockdown marches, stuff like that. Yeah, and so there's been a little bit of a tiff back and forth between those two. We call them, we call it the Cooker Wars. So it's just or I love the Cooker Wars, I love that.
SPEAKER_03:That's it, I love it.
SPEAKER_00:And so they the irony is and and they've actually there's been a bit of an exchange between like Monica had blocked uh and this sounds really caddy in in high school, you know. Uh Beck Freedom, whatever her real name is, uh she she was blocked by Monica, and so she was the head of the main movement. Uh, but they actually had an exchange on a I don't know where, it was like some sort of telegram or something, telegram feed or something.
SPEAKER_01:And yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean it wasn't uh I'm not gonna recite much of it, but it was you know, Beck Beck did highlight that Monica was using their footage to promote her own stuff, and she's like, Well, if you disagree with it, why are you using our footage? And I don't know, it's all a bit bit sort of cutty and back and forth, but Monica, uh she we don't know the full details about originally it was gonna be a nationwide protest, but then it just got to be.
SPEAKER_04:It was gonna be nationwide, attended by millions of unhappy Australians.
SPEAKER_00:Trillions trillions of millions of unhappy Australians. So, but then they didn't I from what I gather, and and people have asked me, like, what's happening with Brisbane? It's like, don't know, I I can't find anything about it.
SPEAKER_04:A few little country towns like Toowoomba had one, and how many people attended the Toowoomba one on their walk to the room?
SPEAKER_00:There was a lone, there was a lone lady, a lone lady with a with a red ensign flag, uh that one. Um there was Are you serious? So one person with a flag one per well reportedly, reportedly. I I had a message from someone to say, Oh I've just seen some some beer oil love standing, standing near the you know, memorial with a with a sh with a red flag and and that's that. So um, but yeah, they only promoted uh Melbourne and Sydney. Now where the confusion came about was when after a few months of of promoting this heart, it was meant to be Sunday the 30th of November.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:My presumption is that the Sydney uh like permit got knocked back for the Sunday. So that was actually then changed to Saturday the 29th.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No real no real explanation given. But even in their own material, like she was sort of almost like, you know, almost like dyslexically kind of mixing up the dates, and it was like not mocking anyone with dyslexia. I'd do it all the time with with my posts. I have have all sorts of uh awesome people reach out and say, Hey, you've been you know this you've spelt that role or whatever, but yeah, yeah. And so that just sowed a lot of confusion. So and even on the morning of uh Saturday the 29th, in the comment section of this readnight democracy slash march first or put Australia first, there were people sort of saying, Hang on, I'm heading into Melbourne.
SPEAKER_04:You know, this is supposed to be the you know, the one of um So it's violently badly disorganized.
SPEAKER_00:That's it. So people are confused. The on on Saturday the 29th, people are messing, how am I into Melbourne? No one's here, and likewise on Sunday, you know, people in Sydney have been. Where is everybody?
SPEAKER_04:They should have gone to Toowoomba and joined that one woman on the street with her flag, right?
SPEAKER_00:That's right, that's right. So the Sydney, the Sydney one was we got some got some awesome followers that you know live in apartments and staying in hair.
SPEAKER_04:So you, the Snarky Gherkin, have have followers that and they can look out their windows, like from Macquarie Street or something.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's it. So so in in the in the pickle jar, as we call it, the the community. I had people we had people sending aerial shots of the okay.
SPEAKER_04:So I'm just going to explain. I'm just going to explain to our um to our listeners that come from other countries. So the Snake Gherkin has a very large um following of um what we would call normal, rational, sensible people who understand that um it's okay to get vaccinated. Um, that really we're incredibly lucky to live in this fantastic country, which has really, I mean, of course there's people that are marginalized, and of course we have poverty, and we of course we have domestic violence, etc. But broadly speaking, um, you know, this is a pretty easy, good, well-supported place to live. And so, you know, we understand it's fine to get vaccinated. Um, and we understand, us sort of rational people, that of course we need immigrants. We are all immigrants and we need immigrants because if we didn't have immigrants, then this country would not keep running. Um, we would all fall over. And also that the the notion of there being mass immigration is an absolute furfe. We don't have mass immigration here. So this group of sensible, rational people follow the Gherkin, follow the Snake Gherkin who I'm currently talking to, and they report from their windows these sort of ragtag marches of these sort of strange collection of disenfranchised, unhappy people. And at the head of these disenfranchised, unhappy people are the people that lead it and try and co-opt them. And they are the grifters, they are the ones that are trying to um actually co-opt this sort of thinking so they can sell things, correct, Snake?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a combination. There's a few factors and and a few extra layers from from my perspective. And I know a lot of people that follow it. So it's okay to have uh genuine discussion and and critique around questions about you know about our society and do we want to have you know big Australia, you know, in in terms of population and things like that. But th this isn't what this is. And and the the the page and and a lot of the people on it are very open to to genuine good faith discussions around those sorts of topics around migration and around uh you know various uh you know regulatory wars coming in and and things. But that that's not what these people are doing. And and and we've seen this same pattern of of this before. If they're not they've presented themselves as as sort of grassroots and you know, just concerned normal day Aussies, and it's not what they are, they're the same faces that we've seen during the anti-lockdown movements during the start of the pandemic. They were um yelling at at at hospital staff, they were encouraging uh people to you know uh not follow certain uh health directives and and things.
SPEAKER_04:So well, a couple of them were actually ripping ripping masks off people that they saw on the street.
SPEAKER_00:So they were like violent. When when they when they had a decent following or thought they had a decent following, they were they were calling for uh, you know, and and touched on this before I won't dwell on it, but it's calling for you know nurses to be to be hung and and nasty things like that. And so I make it a point until they and I've always said about this like with with the with some of these personalities and and stuff like if they want to go back and and live a normy life and just just get a job and get on with it, we'll we'll you know we'll leave them alone. But until they acknowledge, if if if Monica Smith acknowledges the the nonsense that that she'd said and peddled, uh I'd probably Which is what? Well, it's years of it. It's absolutely just years and years and years of officer.
SPEAKER_04:There was cell block 11, remember that? The book.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's yeah, that's cell cell 11. No, what is it? Cell 22.
SPEAKER_04:Cell 22, which apparently was just full of typos and shocking grammar.
SPEAKER_00:Well, they're the special edition. There was 300 and something typos in the first one. And but there's been a rare release, but it's the the original run is is more lucrative now, uh, because it's just yeah, but so yeah, I mean, yeah, so the these people that yeah, it it's they've been they've been at this for five years now, and it's just we just keep an eye on them. We try not to let people forget. And then you know, there's a lot of people probably coming across them for the first time thinking, oh, you know, it can sound reasonable.
SPEAKER_04:I think it's important that we keep sort of almost reframing and re-explaining why we do this, because th there there's a there's a tendency for us to sort of fall into the trap of assume knowledge. And because we are so closely following this, there's an assumption that other people are also aware of this and also aware of the trajectory that they've been on, which is now years, right? It's been years. And I know that the Australian skeptics, um the Australian skeptics, someone from there sent me a thing recently about Monica Smith and her mother selling EMF things to block block the what does that do? It blocks something from your phone. What does it do?
SPEAKER_00:Well it doesn't do anything, but it's not what does it say that it does supposed to block block the radiation from your phone and then just various other bits and pieces, but but again, you've got to for the grift machine or grift economy as we call it, you need they need to create fear and suspicion. You need to it's almost like um it's almost like a almost semi-Pentecostal kind of aspect to it where you know everybody's sturdy, the original sin is, you know, in in in this fallen world we're in, but their products are the ones that clean up.
SPEAKER_04:That's really interesting. You don't yeah, yeah, because I know that um uh Monica Smith um there's a lot of God talk going on there as well, and doing it for Jesus or I don't know, she's gonna be.
SPEAKER_00:Which annoys me because yeah, it annoys me because I I don't think you could have a any theological discussion with her and I'm not convinced that she really, you know, if if if she did follow follow the b you know um the teachings of Christ and and whatnot, real or otherwise, you know, she wouldn't be as uh as as you know, just wouldn't be as nasty as she is. You know, she'd show a lot more compassion.
SPEAKER_04:On that note, you could then just include, you know, every single right-wing evangelical that that wants to um you know obliterate, you know, anybody that's not white. I mean, there's the there's some astonishing um rhetoric that comes out of the mouths of people that purport um to follow the teachings of Jesus. I mean, I I'm my um husband comes from a Christian background. I come from um my father was a raging atheist, my mother um was Jewish, so I sort of came from this sort of mixed household where I'm apparently Jewish because it's in my blood, but I I myself am an absolutely committed atheist. Um my father's arguments made more sense than anything. I find this co-opting of this Christianity into their grifting deeply distasteful and really shallow. And to your point, if you sat down with Monica Smith and said, let's have a theological discussion, I think she'd be lost in the first ten seconds, yes?
SPEAKER_00:That's that's right. I I'm not particularly a a a deeply religious person, but uh I've you know, I I I know a fair bit about uh, you know, uh about Christianity. I've you know um I I I I'd I'd gladly sit down with her and sort of poke I'd love to sit down with her and poke and scratch away about what it is, you know, um test her her sort of and not not from a you know like recite this verse for me, but but in terms of just getting her understanding uh of and and some of just the the theological sort of uh backing as as to what does she think this means or how how does how does your behaviour uh correspond with with this belief system with this particular teaching, yeah. And and I don't I don't want to uh put all anybody and people in in in the same basket. There are lots of Anglicans and Catholics and uh you know people that I interact with and know and and who uh are are very intelligent people and um you know they're good people, right? Good people very very decent people. You wouldn't know it. Uh they don't they don't do it in the name. It's it's just quiet and humble and uh you know and and and there's a lot of non-believers like that too. But it's I I it it almost annoys me when you know they there's sort of I I wish uh more mainstream or or Christian figures would would speak out about these people a bit more because it's doing the whole faith a a bit of a disservice and yeah. But maybe that wouldn't be the very Christian thing to do, you know, to be to be to be publicly calling out people and and yada yada yada. So I don't know, it's it's a bit of a contradiction, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It is. And it's interesting, I think, what you said and and entirely accurate is the the psychology b behind um their grifting, which is create a problem, create a fear, create an anxiety, and then present the solution. So let's just so we look at um the notion of um let's take vaccines. Um vaccines are going to what do they do to you? They make you autistic, um, they they they turbo turbo cancer, um, they're they're doing everything, they're c causing everything. Um so then we create that and then we say, so don't take have a vaccine, but instead, here's my supplement. Um, or here's I I know that Monica Smith and her mother were selling beef tallow a couple of weeks ago. So so I mean, there's always a product, there's always something that they're selling. So they create the fear and then he and here's the solution. And it's really um unfortunately for every person in this country currently who isn't like um, you know, shiny and white, they're now creating fear around people that aren't white, and that is disgraceful. That is absolutely disgraceful because you you know, there's an awful lot of people that are vulnerable to this thinking, and it's dangerous. Racist thinking and racist rhetoric is really dangerous.
SPEAKER_00:So it's interesting Monica's pivot on on this. So she she would insist that no, no, she's not racist or she's not uh against non-white people, which which is why she created, in her words, a a tried to go a middle ground. So she tried to capture the the far, far right movement of of and even she would agree that it's extreme right, essentially. So for for the March for Australia lot, when when you had the neo-Nazi groups around, people were reporting them and stuff like it was insane. Uh so she tried to capture sort of take that movement or at least take a chunk of it and bring it to the middle. So she had various speakers with, you know, I I don't I don't even recall who even some of the speakers even were, but but they're of uh you know non-Anglo European backgrounds to sort of show, hey, look, how can we be racist?
SPEAKER_04:Look, I don't mind people being brown. I like it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's it. Look, I I have a friend, you know, and so I have a single friend who's not white.
SPEAKER_04:Look.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was a little bit like that. So in in her own going uh after the the flop of of the second day in a row with these marches, she was she was caught on the side of a of a of a poop footpath somewhere and somebody was asking her a few questions on on video and and you know she was pretty deflated and and 'cause no one turned up to the cooker march. No one turned up and she she had conceded that she was lured into a bit of a false sense of surety where because of being the high engagement online, you know, tens of thousands of likes, you know, or you know, thousands of reactions every time she she puts a a a you know not a really well thought out post up, but she would the engagement was insane.
SPEAKER_04:So let's talk about that because I think that that is really, really interesting. The disparity between an online response which has you know sort of a fervor and how that co-opts the brain into thinking that that's going to translate into boots on the ground, right? How does that happen? And is that common?
SPEAKER_00:That's right. It it's very common. So I think you know, you we see it even at a fringe political level where you have people that are just surrounded by sycophants and and others, and and there's just this echo chamber. And so Monica would be deep five years into a pretty, pretty robust echo chamber. And so, yeah, and it just doesn't translate. There's there's a few different sort of theories flying around, like people are saying, oh, the and and this is an interesting sort of side note. Um, and I I'm not sure if it's I think it's I think it's actually been deactivated, but briefly on Twitter for about a week and a half, you could actually look at at where the domain was or or um of the user. So you had a lot of these, and I took a few screenshots myself. So an interesting one, for example, and I'm I'm reluctant to kind of press this because it it just leads people down anti-Semitic kind of roads and stuff, but like Rebel News Australia, for example, really right wing, that's based out of Israel for some reason, or it they're posting from Israel.
SPEAKER_04:Hang on, hang on, hang on. Back the truck up. So hang on. There's what's the what's the name of the of the publication?
SPEAKER_00:So Rebel News Australia. Rebel News Australia. It's a Canadian-based far right sort of tries to to present itself as sort of like a news outlet, but it's just it's just really fringe talking points, and they just they just peel away at at culture war sort of fringe points. So before the pandemic. Oh, so before the pandemic, you would have had uh, you know, some rebel news reporters going to s places like Melbourne University and uh approaching, say, Chinese students and try to get them to denounce the CCP or something now.
SPEAKER_04:Hang on, so the rebel news people on the ground would go to a university in Melbourne and approach somebody Chinese and get them to denounce the the um the communist.
SPEAKER_00:The CCP, for example. And so, you know, these students have a camera in their face and they're like, what? And they don't they don't they don't of course they're not gonna like they don't know who this camera is. And they'll say, Well, I think it's isn't it isn't it a concern that your your allegiance to the a communist party and all and and just sort of playing mental gymnastics with people, they'd go to uh and you know they'd go to climate marches and and things. So uh now like it it it's just fringe talk, but they'd go to climate rallies and and just try to sort of bamboozle people with sort of mental gymnastics stuff, so they'd be more prepared for stats than say, you know, some some person at the rally.
SPEAKER_04:So hang on, they they're not they'd obviously because they're to the far right, they don't believe in climate change. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00:Well, they won't say that, but it they would they just go and mock, they go and mock like uh Extinction Rebellion or you know, they they look for the it's a little bit sort of like do you do you remember the I don't know if you had it in Sydney, but you have like the the uh the the AFL footy show back in the day and you'd have Sam Newman sort of taking it to the street and basically they go to to sort of some colourful different suburbs and they might film 30 people but they'll they'll come across one or two wobbles and and that's what they kind of focus on. It it's a it's a little bit like it's that same sort of cheap formula.
SPEAKER_04:So they'll go So what did Sam Newman do? I didn't like Sam Newman.
SPEAKER_00:So he back in the day he had a segment.
SPEAKER_04:Don't sue me, Sam, but go on.
SPEAKER_00:No, that's it. It was like wasn't it taking it to the street or something? And it was and it he'd he'd go to uh you know, like let's say like um he he'd go to Collingwood Flats or something, which is like a a a sort of a housing commission project. Yeah. And so he, you know, and if if Collingwood Football Club was you know on a losing street or something, he'd he'd hang around sort of the foyer of of of the or you know, or the main street in you know near the Collingwood flats, and he'd look for, I don't know, some some some down and outer on his way to the methadone clinic or something, and camera in their face, and hey guys, what do you think about magpies? And they're like, oh, magpies are effing useless, you know. And you you you'd always get this sort of colourful.
SPEAKER_04:And also from other countries, the magpies are Collingwood, correct?
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:And Collingwood is a is a very high profile um club for um football in Australia.
SPEAKER_00:For UK listeners, they're probably like uh the Manchester United maybe of of Aussie rules football. Could be wrong. Probably going to get hate hate messages for that.
SPEAKER_04:But And for the United States, how what would be the equivalent?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I don't know. Green bait packers or something. I don't know. I'm not that in into it. No, I'm not either.
SPEAKER_04:But what what we're saying is we they they search, they sort of go out onto the street, these people, and they interview people to come up with something that that's sort of a bit inappropriate and a bit off the wall, so they can sort of infer that's the mainstream. Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_00:It'd be yeah, so it'd be like the American equivalent or or UK equivalent. It'd be like going wandering into you know Chatswood Estate in Manchester or um you know going to to rundown areas of of Detroit or something and sort of you know, like kind of putting a camera in people's faces, but it was sort of light like it was semi-lighthearted because it was just about sport and and sporting role.
SPEAKER_03:This is not light-hearted, right? These guys are not lighthearted.
SPEAKER_00:They've essentially taken that that formula and and and have it on a culture war sort of spin. So they'll go, and I'm not saying everyone they approach they they approach some really articulated people, uh, but they would always focus on uh you know the the the people that were caught out or the people that were a bit sort of flummoxed or yeah, you know, and then and represent that as like, look, everybody at this at this rally is an idiot, you know, and and you know it was the same.
SPEAKER_04:So it's that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that same thing as the science comes up against this issue that um alternate med will go for an anecdote as opposed to um something that has genuine data and has done proper trials behind it, right? Because you've got one story and one, you know, one story of somebody um that that took um garlic and and ginger and a high dose of C and they got through their COVID. So you don't need the vaccine and you don't need an antiviral. So one story, as we know, unfortunately, uh, in terms of the brain, the story of one person has far more traction than data, which is why, say, at Charity will talk about um, you know, they used to say there's five million children and and they're starving, and now they don't do that. They go, here is little little Ahmed, and he has to walk 5k to get water, and he needs your support because the brain goes, aha, it's one person and one story. So it's sort of the same, right? They find a little anecdote and then they explode out from that, correct?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's it's it yeah, that that's it. So so just going back to the to the point, like with with back to that that news, or whatever you want to call it, Rebel News, that post for some reason the domain is is out of Israel. And so then that's a little bit sort of uh okay. But that's I don't want to go down the slippery slope of you know, you just know people like, see, it's all Zionists and blah blah blah. It's like no, that's not what I'm suggesting. It's probably just some like admin kid that they've employed to you know monitor. But but a lot of what was coming out on Twitter is a lot of these like MAGA uh personalities on Twitter and that have you know massive followings.
SPEAKER_04:So everybody that's not Australian or American, um Well, there were Australian is the Make America Great Again, which is the Trumpism that's currently running rampant um in America, which of course is extremely problematic.
SPEAKER_00:But they there there's a lot of profiles that are come that are that are being administered out of places like Bangladesh and Pakistan and and India and and things like that. And and same as the UK equivalent. So a lot of the uh for may you know Farage kind of bots and stuff, they're all my god and so it it's Will Farage just go away, it's unbearable. Yeah, so there's a theory. So some people have said, No, I don't know, like I haven't haven't verified this, but some people are saying Monica may be victim to that in in terms of she's just got a lot of these bots that are just employed.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so let's take it back so we're clear. So Monica Smith has got uh had looked at this sort of online response and went, oh my god, I'm massively popular, my ideas are really mainstream.
SPEAKER_00:She I'm gonna get out of 30,000 followers. Yeah, yeah. How much?
SPEAKER_04:How many followers has she got?
SPEAKER_00:About uh it's like 97 or 98,000 followers. So it's a it's a decent following. Uh the engagement isn't that great on on her posts the last sort of couple of years. Sometimes she'll she'll get 5,000 reactions on something, but normally it's pretty they normally they normally fall pretty flat. But she's got other platforms too, and and as referenced in in a post earlier today, you know, she goes on Telegram and whenever she says something, there's all these fire emojis, and you go girl, and when are you gonna become our prime minister? And you know, it's all this sort of bluffing. Okay, and it's it it's you know uh Prime Minister, that'd be nice. That's it. So she does have and and she's conceded it, like she said in this in this sort of off the cuff chat the other day that that it it had drawn her into a false sense of in false sense of assurance. And so she then the the funny part is is you know, she's referred to herself now as mainstream.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, what is that? What does she mean by that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, she's just seeing herself as she said that you know she tried to take the middle ground on this migration issue where maybe we should just have certain types of migrants and not not just ban all together because the other the other group wants to they want a five-year pause. So there's no ban they want five years, not a single person in.
SPEAKER_04:Like, who wants the five-year pause? Who's this?
SPEAKER_00:That's the that's the March for Australia group, the other, the other cooker group.
SPEAKER_04:And who in this five years uh supposedly is going to run our IT, work in our restaurants, right, work in the public service, work in the hotels. We're gonna have what they're gonna have nobody here but a few unemployed white people. I mean, what are they talking about?
SPEAKER_00:Their mate Steve can do it. They all know someone named Steve. Yeah, they're taking my jobs. It doesn't, yeah, it it doesn't make any sense. And and again, these are people, frankly, who don't who don't work. So they don't understand. My my analogy is like you wouldn't oh you wouldn't give a cruise ship to these people to run. You wouldn't say, right, there's the here's a cruise ship, run it. You know, the whole thing. What's a cruise ship?
SPEAKER_04:I don't know what that is.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, a a a cruise ship. You know, like a like a state like a case. A cruise ship. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, it's a tremendously complicated uh, you know, like like thing. It you know, you've you've got to orchestrate, you know, the staff, and there's there's people you've got to cater for, and it's a really difficult. These people wouldn't be able to manage uh no, you know, you wouldn't give give them a cruise ship to manage. Why would you give them a country? And this is these people that have these theories, they'll they'll rip a bong and and sit back and be like, yeah, we we can we can again no no no no shaded pot smokers, it's completely fine on you know no beef.
SPEAKER_04:Right, and then think that you understand actually what's going on. And it's back to that um yeah, yeah, that notion of just generalizations that if you actually pick at the edge of the generalization, uh of course it just makes no sense.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. And then Monica went on to say, like she she then the end part of it or something. This is back to the to the impromptu interview, is she then said, you know, when you say more inflammatory things, it it gets more engagement than if you say nuanced things or uh or you know, try to take the middle ground on certain topics. So she sort of really came to that conclusion. Now she's been saying inflammatory things for five years, so it's like there's no you know, boo boo-hoo. I don't, you know, um well that you've just you've just realized like kind of what you've although she's known what she's been doing from the the start. But it's just yeah, so it it's interesting. We'll see how she pivots. I think she'll she'll dwell on it for a while and and expect to see more. There'll be a product.
SPEAKER_04:There'll be some I reckon there'll be a combination of an EMF blocker made out of beef tallow so that probably it's natural, but there'll be you will no longer be damaged from your phone. Don't you reckon?
SPEAKER_00:I I tend to knock beef tallow a lot in my posts, and I have had some people comment like, hey, love your posts, but lay off the beef tallow because it's really handy, like unintended. Uh because they're like, Oh no, I use beef tallow, it's it's better than nostril. I'm like, okay.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, it's like apple cider vinegar. Apple cider vinegar.
SPEAKER_00:And these not cookers necessarily like, and so I I don't know, I err with caution. These these are people like I'm like, okay, I'll I'll lay off it a bit. Like if it's I'm sure if you're finding enjoyment out of it, then then so be it.
SPEAKER_04:But uh look, it's totally fine if you want to put lemon into warm water and have that on an empty stomach every morning because of some misplaced notion that it kick starts your digestive system when what it actually does is acidize the situation and hurt your teeth, then go ahead and do that. But can we not yeah, it's not good for you.
SPEAKER_00:I've heard you talk about uh lemon water before. Is it does lemon water clean your inside? It doesn't do any, it's just lemon disinfects.
SPEAKER_04:It doesn't do it, there'sn't it it's just lemon.
SPEAKER_00:But lemon disinfects my bench, wouldn't it disinfection?
SPEAKER_04:It is not okay. Are you cleaning everything with a bit of lemon? Because it's it's uh you know what you need to do? You need to clean everything with a lemon and then strap cut up an onion and put that on the soles of your feet and wrap your feet in glad wrap. That's gonna detoxify you.
SPEAKER_00:I saw that this morning, actually, the lemon. Oh man. They're like, you shouldn't eat one, because it's so toxic, but it's good to put on you, but not in you.
SPEAKER_04:You can't eat a well that's um Barbara O'Neill. Um Barbara O'Neill, who's who's a very dangerous individual, um, and who advocates I don't know what should you can't have a vaccine and you can just cure everything with a bit of lemon and onion. And the problem is Barbara O'Neill, who's been banned from her naturopathy practice, um, she's very, very dangerous and she has a large following. And my friend Kate Thomas, um, who is awesome, who I am interviewing tomorrow night live at the Skeptics in the pub. So Thursday evening, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Me and Richard Saunders, who's the chief investigator for the Australian Skeptics, are interviewing some really interesting smart women live at the pub. It's going to be fantastic. And we're going to be talking about the fact that these people that advocate for these natural bullshit cures actually really, really dangerous.
SPEAKER_00:I made a I I received a threat about talking about her yesterday, uh, Barbara O'Neill. So not from not from her, but a follower of hers that I like often see on the page. So they sent me a private message and going back. I I won't go too into it, but I made a post about a week ago, not even necessarily directed at Barbara, but it was uh she she was sort of entangled in it in this example I was giving. I removed the post though, there there were there was a couple of things in there that weren't factually correct. So I um I just removed it and was gonna revert back to it. And I just haven't got back to it sort of thing. I was gonna gonna post a um it it wasn't up long, it didn't have much traction, and I was like, I'm gonna repost a a a correction and the post in due course. Now everything's a lot's happened since then, a lot more interesting things. It was just very it was a mundane post that wasn't engaging really well anyway. Uh but this person's taken that as a you removed it because you knew that we're on to you, and if you if you comment on her again, you're gonna regret it and just de you know, don't push us. And so now I'd actually forgotten about it, and now I'm in now I want to post it because I said, Well, you've just piqued my interest now because Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It's not good, it's not good. And I'm only saying if anybody complains to me about this, I am not saying anything that hasn't come out of her mouth. Which is that onions, etc., are very, very good. And um, yeah, I think Externally though, right? Don't eat one. You should know that as a gherkin. You as a gherkin should not be consuming onions because it'd be like your cousin.
SPEAKER_00:Well, did you know I read yesterday cucumbers have more aluminium in them than vaccines have about ten times more.
SPEAKER_04:Stop. Can you tell me that? I love that. Tell me that.
SPEAKER_00:It does. So don't quote me on it. But it's got I mean you're on the podcast, so I am quite. Yeah, you are quite quote me on it. All right, so cucumbers, some cucumbers have been measured to have about five is it, milligrams of of aluminium. Don't think that's a good one.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know how can you explain that to me? I'm ignorant about the aluminium content of a cucumber. What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's just naturally occurring aluminium. Oh, it's naturally occurring.
SPEAKER_04:Uh-huh, uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's it. So so fruit and veggies, lots of things have apparently you inhale, apparently and I again correct me if I'm wrong. I I'm reading stats about like so I was reading about like naturally occurring aluminium.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because because and apparently you can absorb more aluminium by breathing near a barbecue than you would absorb through a vaccine. And so this thing about vaccines, aluminium, and the heavy metals causing things like that. Yeah. It's so it naturally occurs everywhere. Well, not everywhere, probably, but it naturally incurs a lot. And so I was reading about okay, well, what fruit and vet, what are the highest sort of bananas have like a shit ton amount of of aluminium in them. It's why we're all autistic. That's right.
SPEAKER_04:Also, the other thing is it's so insulting to people that are on the spectrum.
SPEAKER_00:That's another thing too. I I everyone I know on the spectrum is awesome. I work with so many amazing people, actories and financial people. Me too. And it's their superpower, and they'll be the first to say it. So I again that that's probably something I need to check myself on too, because it's like I don't emphasize enough that there's actually there's a lot of amazing autistic people, and it shouldn't be used in the negative light that it that it needs to be.
SPEAKER_04:It should not, and I'm telling you, we would not be functioning as a society, and nothing would have been actually discovered if it wasn't for people that were on the spectrum. Because someone like me, yeah, I do not have the focus to deep dive into a topic enough to make a discovery and find a cure. So that's right. It's just the most appalling thing that they that they bang on about paracetamol or tylenol or vaccines or whatever, uh causing autism, like it's the f worst thing in the world. It's a disgrace. Oh, it's gonna be something really interesting to ask you then. Oh, that's what it was. Tell me what you tell me, um, because I'm genuinely interested. Do you know anything about microplastics?
SPEAKER_00:I do actually.
SPEAKER_04:Well, can you tell me because it is that's a genuine danger, right?
SPEAKER_00:It is. I don't know a lot about it, but my wife has been kind of going down the rabbit hole a bit on microplastics in in in a healthy way. So good. It's I mean, it's just everywhere. So at at the bottom of of the is it Mariana Trench, the the lowest point in the world, you know, there's they've found microplastics and it it's it's just in everything and everywhere.
SPEAKER_04:So I've And what is it actually what is the well okay, two two things. I know that you you you know you're not a scientist, but two things. Um what are the actual dangers of it and how do we protect ourselves?
SPEAKER_00:I don't think it's possible you can mitigate it to an extent. How I think it's so prevalent, or just uh just uh a less reliance on plastic products. So apparently with a like my wife was reading yesterday that with a a new kettle that for the first time that you use it, there's something like you know, so many billion parts per you know, fragments, whatever, of of microplastics in in that water. Uh it's not solved in the way so a lot of grifters and snake oil people will try to like sell you bits and pieces. I had one lady once say, Oh, well, lucky I use my water filter, and it's like, well, what do you think the filter's made out of? Like it's probably plastic.
SPEAKER_04:So it's like Okay, so if I get a new kettle, because at the moment, as you're telling me this, I've got I'm looking at Harry with Google eyes with my hand clasped over my mouth. I'm so appalled. So are we saying that products that are made from plastic like a new kettle? So I'm gonna be Possibly so go metal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So go, I mean, uh, but there is no I don't so the the the long-term effects aren't known that you can get. I've I've read some bits and pieces before where like just you know, um samples from just High Street have gone in and they've they've uh you know, I don't know if it's like scans or blood tests or whatever.
SPEAKER_04:Samples from what did you say?
SPEAKER_00:Samples from from from like biological samples from people.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So just just just plucking people off the street to sort of, you know, just just random, you know, everyone, it seems it's almost like Neanderthal DNA. Like we've all got a bit of it in us, you know. It's like microplastics. Uh it's we we've all got we've all got microplastics. Like everybody's gonna be a good thing.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so so so okay, just I'm gonna just ask you because obviously you've done some investigating and I've had my head in the sand about it. So we shouldn't be using, like, for instance, because this is a ri as opposed to a manufactured cooker fear, this is a real fear and a real problem. So we shouldn't be using um plastic containers or glad wrap. Is that right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's avoiding heat on those things. So not to when you if if you use glad wrap and you're heating in the microwave, it's not to have the glad wrap on. A lot of people reheat food with with glad wrap on or with with um cling film on.
SPEAKER_04:Can I put the glad wrap on some like let's just say I've cooked a meal and it's cooled. Can I put Glad wrap over it and put it in the fridge or is that dangerous?
SPEAKER_00:If it's warm, apparently it leak it leaks out a little bit more. Far out than so, but but yeah, I I don't know much about it. It's probably something definitely need to look into. It's something that's been around like like from a from a um like I I I think in like a million years time from a geological week, there's gonna be this entire like plastic layer of like this time that we're alive, the whole world is gonna be in this little kind of but no, it's it's everywhere, it's in everything. And it's not there is no, sadly, uh there's no detox for it. There's no pill for it. There's no uh and even if you avoided, even if you avoided like like plastic products, like you'd mitigate it slightly, but it it is in everything.
SPEAKER_04:Like it's just like what like okay, so it's let's just say I I have a my kettle mm my kettle is glass with a metal element, isn't it? Is is that is that right? Oh where does the plastic you mean the with the kettle itself is plastic?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, if the kettle's plastic, that's right. Yeah, so if you've got a plastic. I'm sure. Yeah, I mean it might mitigate it ever so slightly, but it's in the water, it's in the water, oh my god. But it's definitely it's in the vegetables we eat, even if they haven't come into contact with with plastic. So it's it's you know, if when they catch a salmon on the the you know, the rivers of Alaska or you know, again get a get pull up a crayfish off the west coast of Ireland and they've got microplastics in all of them. Different levels, of course, but it's just depressing.
SPEAKER_04:I'm luckily I don't eat crayfish because um I developed a seafood allergy.
SPEAKER_01:Oh seafood.
SPEAKER_04:I know I did love seafood, but now I can't eat any of it. And it's it was a late life allergy development. It was very disappointing, but I can't touch seafood. I know it's bat.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's really good. And yeah, plastic is is is crap, but in a lot of ways it's it it's it's also been a good thing for a lot of like especially developing places like with food hygiene and transporting food.
SPEAKER_04:We must always try and look at the big picture, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's you know, it it's been really integral to to our world and our our society and stuff, but it's just like most things everywhere. I don't know a lot about it. I'm probably wrong. If anyone's like banging their desk, listen to this thinking doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, please please write to me if if we've discovered that Snarky's actually an idiot and um Oh no, I am.
SPEAKER_00:No, I've no you are an idiot, but yeah, yeah, I am. But it's uh but but I I try to just just provoke thoughts and and things like that. But yeah, no, I'm yeah, okay. My wife's going down the the microplastic rabbit hole more than I'm gonna be able to do. I should have interviewed your wife. Yeah, I'll bring her up next time. Mrs. Gherkin, yeah, she can Can I bring on Mrs.
SPEAKER_04:Gherkin and and have a chat about the microplastics? I'd quite like that. And there's things I'll see if she's interested.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, do do do do do. What is your is your wife in in it a science y person?
SPEAKER_00:Uh no, but she's smarter than I am. But she's not not science-y. So she you No, she's just she's just a concerned mother, like a concerned mother. Yeah. Yeah, concerned mother. Uh and then yeah, and she's I guess the algorithm's probably caught her attention on on the the microplastic thing because she's often has various reels and posts presented to her now about. Well it's caught my attention.
SPEAKER_04:What I did with it is I stuck my fing my fingers in my ears and went la la la because it looked like such a big topic. I sort of I could I can only do so many topics at a time. Yeah, yeah. Especially ones that upset me, right?
SPEAKER_00:It's probably one of those things where not wanting to sound laissez-faire about it, like there's probably there's probably things you can do to mitigate it slightly, but it's just so like we're stuck grandfathered into like absolutely everything. It's not like asbestos where if we can just safely remove that wall, yeah, we'll be alright. Like it's it even if you compl and it's it's important not to get dragged into the because you can go online and there'll be all sorts of things that'll promise that it'll protect you, yeah, detox and um you know, and and buy this filter because it'll that's made out of plastic detox filter the plastic out and and I I reckon there'll be something uh there was there was something the other day I was reading where somebody had um a melanoma and uh they were they were uh you know in the in the cooker verse and they were saying I'm I'm not too sure.
SPEAKER_04:And of course somebody suggested black salve.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no.
SPEAKER_04:Which just rots your face away anyway, skin away.
SPEAKER_00:Is this the one on the cheek? I got sent this.
SPEAKER_04:Um yes, it is the one on the cheek. But there was somebody saying on that thread about the person because the black salve thing is a classic, right? Because it's this dreadful thing, and they put it on, just eat your flesh away.
SPEAKER_01:I have recently.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I've I've been aware of black salve for years, it's a nightmare. It just it rots everything anyway.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, sorry, yeah. Oh, what is it?
SPEAKER_04:It's an it's natural snarky, it's naturally occurring, so it must be fine.
SPEAKER_00:Is it like volcanic tar or something? Yeah, it's something like that.
SPEAKER_04:And some the woman that um there's been a court case recently where um because a woman the TGA, somebody took this woman to court about it. There was a case because she kept selling it, and it's deeply d deeply damaging. And of course, if you're in the co if you're in that sort of alternate medic medication environment and you've been you've gone to the doctor and they've said, look, you have a cancer, you have a melanoma, we have to remove it, and then you've spoken to one of your med cooker mates, they've gone, that's nonsense. You just need to put black salve, and then you order it, and then you put it on, and then you end up with a hole in your cheek. That's exactly what happens. It's it's illegal to sell it now, it's a disaster. But anyway, this guy on the thread was like the first mistake you've made. I don't know if you read this, is um buying into the notion that there's cancer um because all there is is parasites.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've seen I didn't read that, but I've read that before.
SPEAKER_04:It's just yeah, so everything's to do with parasites and the medical profession won't tell you. Anyway, don't let me start on that because um I feel mad now after the whole the whole discussion's made me need to have it lie down and drink some wine. Um but it's too early in the day and I don't day drink, so that's left me in a bit of a quandary. Um so all right, um, I think we c covered some good ground here today. Snarky, what do you reckon?
SPEAKER_00:Certainly, yeah, I agree. We've we've covered a lot of topics. It's been a bit jumpy on my part, but no, no, I like to do that.
SPEAKER_04:It's been good. So um, if you stay on the line, I'm going to wish my followers, not my followers, I sound so pretentious. I'm going to wish the listeners a fond farewell, uh, and then I'll come back to you. So thank you so much, Snarky. Uh, it's been, as always, an absolute delight um to have you on. You're an absolute wealth of knowledge. And um my listeners and I love you. You always do very well. Everybody listens to you all over the world, which is awesome. And to my listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. And as always, stay safe, stay well.
