Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
The day after.
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Well, hello, smart women, and welcome back to the Why Smart Women Podcast. Today is the fifteenth of December, and I am podcasting from Sydney, New South Wales, and it is a very sad day here because of what happened in Bondi last night. I'm here with my good friend Allison, um, who was with me last night um when we heard the the devastating news of what was happening in Bondi. And um for those of you that listen to the podcast that are not from Australia, and there's a lot of you now that listen to this podcast from all over the world, and um it's important for you to know that here in Australia mass shootings are very rare. And how long has it been, Alison, since the last one?
SPEAKER_00:So the the biggest mass shooting was back in 1996, and that was at Port Arthur, and that's something that in Australia we kind of think of, oh, that was the big thing. And there were l there were more people um killed there, I think I don't know, it's in the 30, I think. Um so since then we've had it's not that we haven't had terrible incidents, but we haven't had that kind of large attack. And now for and for the people overseas, it's interesting for us. I think we look at well, we everyone knows, but they don't necessarily know. It's a huge thing for us that you know, last night two gunmen killed fifteen people. And injured and injured thirty-six, I think. Yes. At this stage that's what we know. So it's a rare thing.
SPEAKER_04:Um resounding. It is, and we are all um Well everyone's just we're all just shell-shocked.
SPEAKER_03:And we were it's so strange how these things enter your consciousness and how they enter your consciousness. Because we were sitting at a an event last night at my at my apartment, um which Allison was at, and we were having a you know, a nice sort of dinner and we were having laughs, and then my son looked up and said, There's been a shooting in in Bondi. And that's when your brain starts trying to make sense of something which is so out of the ordinary, right?
SPEAKER_01:Hmm.
SPEAKER_00:And you start, I think when we were looking initially at sort of it's trying to look at the different sources, so Bondi, and then there's been this many people shot, or there's been this many killed. And I think at that stage we were sort of talking about, well, we just don't know what, and which source do we look at, and and trying to step back from it a little bit because you don't know. You don't know, and what thing because I a couple of weeks ago there was an attack in America where it was like this many people killed, and they said it straight away, and then it turned out no they hadn't been, you know. So for me it was that, oh well maybe it's not. Right. Maybe it's it it's the it's the rush of what's happening that will say it's worse than it is. Unfortunately, we woke this morning to it's worse than we you know we were initially hearing, which is so sad.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so we woke this morning to the devastating news that had that that there had been a attack on um members of the Eastern Suburbs Jewish community who were um celebrating Hanukkah um and yeah, fifteen people shot indiscriminately, um including a ten-year-old girl. Uh so and and I guess it's from this point onward that the damage to the further damage to the I'll start that again, Harrison. I guess that has happened and that is devastating. But what happens next is what we need to try and um ameliorate, which is the misinformation and the disinformation that is about to come at us at the rate of knots, of course, it it can absolutely further tear the fabric of society. So what do we do about that, Alison? How do we how do we counter this? Because everybody wants an answer, right? And that's what you were saying last night, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and this morning on the in the press conference, they're saying, well, what happened here and what happened? And and the the police were saying, Well, that's part of our investigation. They don't know. They're not going to give the details, and we want the answers so that we know what to do next. And I think the with the answers aren't immediate. So trying to being able to uh we want to be able to control it and we can't. We need to allow, I think, the police, uh, the others, the investigations, the things that happen, and they don't the fact that they're not telling us all the answers straight away is not about cover up or things that well, you know, we don't know that, but it's allowing them to do their work because that whole thing of snap judgment, you know, immediate reacting, that's where we're where we're we're not exercising critical thinking. No, we're not exercising it at all. Putting that pressure on people to give us immediate answers, I think, is unfair. We want the immediate answers so we then know what to do. We have to there's a sitting at the moment in the discomfort of not knowing what to do exactly, but trying to find, I don't know, the ways to be kind.
SPEAKER_03:Well, some people are giving blood. Yeah, that's right. And we what we're looking. There's two things going on. There's the people are just going, what can I do? How can I help? You know, there's there's lines and lines of people donating blood, as you just said. Uh, and the rest of us are just sort of floundering around, going, how how can I impact this? How can I help? What can I do? And it of course it plugs into that deep sense of powerlessness that we're experiencing. And also, we have absolutely no agency in this, and people hate that. We want answers, yes, we want a clear line of blame, right? And and and we want to regain control because this has given us. I know I was sitting there last night, and both my children are here, and I was I've had that terrible sensation almost of free fall, which is none of us are safe anymore. But of course, it's an illusion because none of us are safe anyway. Anything can happen to anybody at any time. But I think we sort of do live in this illusion, don't we? Although can when I'm saying that there are places in the world that are in a permanent state of this, for instance, like Gaza, like Ukraine, that must wake every morning to this. Sudan. Sudan.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so many places that have constant fear and uncertainty. And we in Australia have left have lived or tend to live with a sort of a relative. Relative, but relatively blasé about it, you know, we are safe. And and there's a realization that terrorism can happen here as well. But as you say, lots of other things can happen here.
SPEAKER_03:Lots of other things as well, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:And in the midst of what two people have done that it is terrible, there are or you know, there were so many instances of people doing heroic, kind, just caring things as well. So you can live in the fear of the the random acts of violence, but hopefully it's countered living in the the random acts of kindness, yeah, well, there's the random acts of bravery. And though they were there were more people doing that.
SPEAKER_03:Way, way, way more. And I always come back to that, that um society would not function if fundamentally we weren't kind, compassionate, and caring, it just wouldn't function. If we were all murderous and violent and anarchic, then society would not function. So we know that. But all it takes, because we know that all we know about the shooters, it was um a father and a son, and that's all we know. Um and already I'm looking at um the internet, which is just exploding with theories which are incorrect, insulting, and divisive. Um so then the number one is that these guys were Muslims and we should just get rid of all the Muslims, which just is just, you know, the fact that half of, you know, the the brilliant, I don't know what his I don't know what his religious I don't know what his religion was, but the guy that disarmed the shooter, one of the shooters, uh was named was Ahmad. So, you know, it is just the most ridiculous thing to paint an entire portion of the population with the same brush. But people's brains want to do it because it it they think it gives them an answer. If it's them, it's them and us, it's the in-group and the out group. And if we can blame the out group and somehow excise them from our society, then we'll be safe. And it's like, well, why why didn't the government know? Well, how it can you imagine trying to track every single person that has you know that a a red flag has popped up for? It's just too easy, I think, to play the blame game and it's way too early.
SPEAKER_00:It's uh there's a lot of um it's the the it's the othering of so many people, and as soon as you other them, then you and then they then if they've got a particular name, then that means they are this. 100%. But we don't know anything. So we know the name of one person. Yep. There was a father and son. So do we just say that father and son, father and son relationships are difficult? You know, we don't know that's right. We don't know. We don't know we don't know that. We don't know if that's we won't know for a a long time.
SPEAKER_03:And yet we're desperate to know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Because then we then then we know maybe what to do. Well, I don't know that we even know then, but you it's well it just gives us a sense of control, something to hold on to.
SPEAKER_03:And I've um, you know, we we know it was anti-Semitic. We know that. Um Do we?
SPEAKER_00:I um I would say yeah, no, and so we know that it was at an event. At a Hanukkah event. At a Hanukkah event. So I I mean, and they're they're talking about that, but we don't know what uh we don't know their motivations as such at this stage. So no um it it it's at an event that's affected the Jewish people. And yeah, look, it's highly likely that there was something there, but we don't but we actually don't know anything yet that's been reported to us. No. They've said it's an act of terrorism, so they've got criteria. Yeah. So that might of itself say something, and they've said anti-Semitism is you know likely likely. But the motivations of the particular people I do wonder, is it where does it happen where has it happened? Is it what you know, is there a trigger?
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah, I um and the thing is that what whatever has occurred um the influences on that moment are complex.
SPEAKER_03:And it is the very nature of complexity, I think, that people's brains do not want to entertain. They want a simple answer. And everything is complex. Um, you know, yes, we know that the Hamas attack of October the 7th that started, you know, this sort of incendiary um experience of anti-Semitism all over the world, but the whole notion of the persecution of Jews goes back, back, back, back, back, back, back. Um, we also know that the you know, the Palestinians also, I mean, it's just complicated. And I don't actually want to get into the whole the whole Gaza experience, but we are the world is now incredibly interconnected. You know, we are we're here in Australia, but unfortunately, what happens in other parts of the world does affect us, and can we stop that?
SPEAKER_00:Can I share a story with you? Please do. I don't know whether this is helpful or not. I went to a um celebration of Advent, which is the Christian sort of lead-up to Christmas. Is that the calendar? The the calendar, so the the Advent calendar, yes. So it goes up to Christmas and 12 days after. Um it's the beginning of the church year, and I went to a um uh dinner celebration of Palestinian Christians, right? Um, celebrating the beginning of Advent. Um, but it was also talking about what is Palestine, and they invited and uh their um Muslim brothers and sisters along, and it was a real um celebration um with um Palestinian people, um, Christian Australians, uh there was the lady who is the Jews for Palestine and a major leader there, so it was a whole community event. But one of the things was they had a singer who sang and got us all to sing Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it made me cry.
SPEAKER_00:And it was funny, we were singing a long song, We're over the rainbow, and it's like but then there was this realization for me that hope that there are people who you know, the little children somewhere bluebirds fly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because in them where they're not they're not safe.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that's what we all feel. Even in Australia, there's people now who are thinking, where's that side over the rainbow? But that's the communal thing that humanity is looking for. That somewhere in the future, over the rainbow, blue bird blue birds sing, birds fly over the rainbow. Yeah. Why then? Oh, why can't I? And it was very interesting because there were sing people singing along halfway through while I was just in tears. Of course. And my my poor husband was like, Oh, not you again. But that's that's you know, do we discover in this not the answers, but the fact that we all have that humanity humanity that longing somewhere for this greater peace? And if we can actually just acknowledge that the that longing in Palestinians, in Jewish people, in Muslims, because we're all that's what we want, and we want it for our children. We do, and we want it over there. So, and the answer is not in then saying we're gonna build a wall or we're gonna kick everybody out.
SPEAKER_03:It's amazing um because regular listeners would be aware that I follow um I follow the Cook community in Sydney, in Australia, and um, who have made a seamless transition from um being anti-vax into being anti-immigration. Hey, you've got to hate something, right? You've got to have some irrational thing going on in your brain. So that's where they are now. And they organise these awful marches, and it's just it's just disgraceful. And um, so they're of course online this morning, and they're so quick, it's so quick. Um not only okay, first thing we've got to do is just um all Muslims have to just leave the country immediately. Such an easy thing to organise, and also one of them was like, and all the Jews as well. It's like just get rid of everybody. I don't know who they think is gonna live here. All the others. Get rid of the others, yeah. It's all the others. Yeah. Uh I've just finished um Melanie Traceett King, who is um a professor of biology but runs a um a very successful online um, she's got a page called Um Thinking Is Power. And um, she's just she's just written a um a book, which I've just pre-read it and had a peg through it before it goes to the publisher. And um, she's so good. And she was talking about the fact that in everybody's head there is an elephant and there is a writer. It's such a great analogy. Of course, we're so uh invested in our um emotional imperatives. We're so invested in every feeling that I have, every emotion that I have, every impulse that I have must be respected and must be acted on. And of course, so many of these um, you know, as soon as I have a very strong feeling about anything, I always sit back and I go, what is driving that? Because if I don't sit back and go, what is driving that, then I'm likely to take action on it. And the behavior will either be positive or the behavior could be destructive in myself. I'm talking about small decisions. And of course, the emotional drivers, the elephant in the heads of people that commit these sort of atrocities, can you imagine how out of control those elephants are? Now, they are an anomaly in our society, but these people that use these opportunities to sow discontent, to sow division, and to grift off society, they're the one, I mean, what an absolute disgrace. Because I think their elephants are also just opportunistic elephants going, here's an opportunity for me to say something that's gonna get people fired up. And then we find the person to blame, and then people feel that they can take action, but it's crap because we can't. There's no action that we can take that is born of hate that is gonna fix any of these problems. We can hold boundaries, we can be clear, we can say um legally, right? Legally, this is this is what you can do and what you can't do. We can respect the policing of our country. But, you know, at the end of the day, all we can do is really, really try to get our elephants under control, try and and really get into the right part of our brain and go, hang on, just because that person dresses like that, and just because they're from the same area from the person that has committed an atrocity, am I gonna hate them as well? So, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know what else we can do, Allison.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't uh it's interesting because we we we even go and pour into I've got to read more, I've got to know more about what's happened, and that's we will, but that's gonna be over time. What do we do today? We value well uh you know, there are the lines for blood, but we value each other. I I go back to what do we have control of, the kindness that we can give to the people around us, um and not engaging in the the um we we engage in speculation. I it's that interesting thing of not trying not to keep speculating, but pouring our energies into the positive things at the moment.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's right. We the speculation, I think the endless speculation, I've I've had to I made a decision right at the start of it, I wasn't going to look at it on television. Oh I I've I've looked at it online and I've spoken to my friends, but I'm not gonna look at it on television because I don't find it helpful for my mental state, because it just makes me really anxious and I get stuck in a loop of I just can't believe it's happening. Why did that happen and what can I do about it? And I come out nowhere. So, to your point, all we can do is allow the process to unfold, you know, send love out to the people that have innocent people going, that's what it's so upsetting, innocent people at the beach. Is there more is there more is there a more iconic beach that represents the joy and freedom of being Australian than Bondi Beach of all the places?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it it is true. It's kind of it's that that's our place of frolic and freedom and care almost carefreeness. It's the carefree place. Right? Um People come on holidays and it's like straight to Bondi. And it and this is and it and it's not it's far from carefree now. It's and how long will it take for that scar to heal? But it it's interesting too. I don't think like I think people could say that if you do, oh, you know, just just concentrate on what you can do and be kind, you know, and trust the process, then you're just um bowing out of it. It doesn't mean there's not even accountability in terms of, okay, government, we're gonna give you time to go and investigate. And there's accountability down the track. Yeah. There's space and holding accountable for doing a good investigation, holding the police, you know, necessary when they review this, that they that they report, that there's transparency, that we actually learn and understand what has happened, but that comes by giving time, by allowing time, by allowing the police, allowing the government not to just do a knee-jerk reaction. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:Um it's not the knee jerk to appease people's yeah, yeah, because everyone it it's the same, it's the same principle, which I go over and over and over again, that the reason that we um will sometimes turn our back on um Western medicine and go towards alternate medicine is because we want certainty. And Western medicine offers us, you know, I'm gonna run a test, I'm not sure, I think it's this, but I could be wrong. And over here you'll have a naturopath going, it's definitely this, I can fix it. Right. And we the human brain, we love certainty. We really, really don't like living in an uncertain place. And is there any place more uncertain for us today than Sydney, New South Wales, Australia? Because our perception of where we live has been blown into a million pieces. Right? And so we can't have certainty. What we can have is connection, kindness to the people that we that are near us, right? And then I don't know what else we can do. I don't know, except live with the fact that this is really painful for all of us and grieve with those who were going about their evening on a beautiful Sydney night and have lost their lives. Yeah, terrible. Um, anything else to say, Alison?
SPEAKER_04:I don't think so.
SPEAKER_03:It's very nice of you to join me um today. I really, really appreciate it. Um I did think to myself, listeners, if I should tackle it, and I had a long discussion with Alison and with David and actually with Harrison about whether I should. But I'd like to think that this podcast does not add into the the speculation, but is part of the fight against the tsunami of disinformation and misinformation that fires up the elephants in people's brains. Because at a time like this, what we need more than anything is rationality and not jumping to conclusions and not giving in to that absolutely desperate urge to find the blame. Because yes, two people had their hands on those triggers, but the backstory, the social fabric, the cultural influences that that got us to this point, that is complex. And that cannot be solved in a single meme. So on that note, um thank you very much. Um I'm sorry to be um the bearer of such terrible news. And our love you say. Yeah, our love to them.
SPEAKER_00:Our love to the people who are in this, to the people with who've lost family, the people who don't know the the the responders, there's so many people that whose life today is different. All of us are affected in some way, but some people have will have scars. So yeah, our love, our thoughts there'll be people who it's their prayers and that's that's good too. Yeah, great. Um and it's about yeah, that upsetting and uh our prayers even in our acts of kindness. Yeah. Our prayers in action. Thank you, Alison.
SPEAKER_03:And to all you listeners, stay safe, stay well, keep your critical thinking hats on, talk to you soon. Bye.
