Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
I’m Not Nagging, You’re Just Distracted
We challenge the idea of “nagging” and swap it for clearer timing, safer habits, and fairer workload. One of us needs quick wins, the other needs deep-focus blocks, and we build a shared system so both can work.
• acknowledging Sydney context and recent grief
• unpacking whether nagging is a gendered term
• ADHD, deep work, and distractibility costs
• quick tasks versus complex tasks at home
• safety reminders versus ambient prompts
• timing triage: now, end of day, scheduled
• scripts for asking without escalating
• shared lists, alarms, and completion loops
• aligning different speeds with patience and follow‑through
• closing with empathy, humour, and less tension
Please let me know if you encounter any of these ongoing issues. I’d love to hear your perspective on it because we certainly do
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Well, hello, smart women, and welcome back to the Why Smart Women Podcast. Um, today I am broadcasting. No, I'm not broadcasting because David continually tells me that's the wrong word. I'm podcasting. From Use broadcasting. Well no, I can't now 'cause you've made me uncomfortable about it. And it makes me feel like I'm being grandiose.
SPEAKER_00:Oh really? Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00:We're narrowcasting.
SPEAKER_01:Are we?
SPEAKER_00:Well we're podcasting.
SPEAKER_01:That's what I said.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, sorry.
SPEAKER_01:So today I'm podcasting from Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. Um we are still recovering. No, we're not recovering at all. We are still grieving um for the terrible events that happened here on Sunday night at Bondi. Um I've already done a podcast last episode about that, so I won't go on about that again. But just to say our thoughts are very much still with the um the families who have lost a loved one and to the people that are still in hospital in a critical condition. Um we think about them all the time. Um but today um we are going to talk about something much closer to home. Um and that is something that I think all women will be able to relate to, and that is when they are accused of nagging.
SPEAKER_00:Accused of nagging. Well I mean that sounds that's that's that's that's that's raising the stakes a little bit. That's accurate that's making making it a Ah, yes, it is accurate.
SPEAKER_01:It's accurate because it is accusatory.
SPEAKER_00:It's not accusatory.
SPEAKER_01:It you you've been accusing me of nagging.
SPEAKER_00:I c Okay Okay. Okay. Now let's let's just let's just get the get the frame right here. I'm not accusing you of nagging because if I was accusing you, then there would be a case and there'd have to be evidence and we'd have to prove that it was true.
SPEAKER_01:We're not in a court of law.
SPEAKER_00:An accusation is not a couple of things.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no, we're not in a court of law. We're just at home.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, but but but that's I can feel accused. But that's what yeah, you can you can certainly feel accused.
SPEAKER_01:And I was accused. You accused me of nagging.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well you you put it. It wasn't an accusation. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go. You tell me you're I'm gonna be quiet, you tell me what happened.
SPEAKER_00:I simply thought it would be good for me to bring it to your attention.
SPEAKER_01:Bring what to your attention?
SPEAKER_00:That you were nagging.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you understand that n the word nagging is um replete with negative connotations, negative inferences, let me finish. Well about women.
SPEAKER_00:About women?
SPEAKER_01:Well you think that n you don't think nagging is a gendered word.
SPEAKER_00:I think that um no, I g yes, I'll uh let's keep it simple.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay, let's because my simple female brain.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, no. Go on. It's not your simple female brain. It's it's it's another quality of your brain that may not be female. I think um, you know, I'm not I'm not gonna I'm not gonna paint with a broad brush stroke here. Aren't you? No, no, but you just have a particular um sort of talent for um And do do describe this nagging. A certain kind of communication. Well, you know, look I I I I knew that I was on dangerous territory. Um ground. When when when when dangerous ground. Dangerous ground when when when when you suggested that we that we um that we do a a session on what happens when women are accused of nagging. Oh. I knew I knew I knew that this was going to be dangerous. So I I I didn't know. Well yes, yeah. Look, I actually I actually did look. I looked at the etymology of the word, and the funny thing is that yes, it it did first show up in um in sort of the Middle Ages in um in a shrew, it it comes to mind, a shrew kind of.
SPEAKER_01:A shrew, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well a shrew certainly nags. Um but the word itself, we think it's actually more sort of Scandinavian. Um Who's we? Well okay, okay. So well I'm I'm talking about, you know, those who are interested in the the etymology of words and where language comes from. So I mean the But it's still female. With no.
SPEAKER_01:What?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Look, look, probably the only the only thing that um that might sort of suggest that it's female um is if you think that the original words, you know, of the you know, the the the original definitions of the root word actually applies to women only.
SPEAKER_01:It doesn't matter though, because it has now been transmuted, has it not, through its usage over the centuries to now be a word that is applied really um probably exclusively to women.
SPEAKER_00:Well, look, some women uh just are very good at it, I get I think good at okay. I mean l let's let's let's remember what language is, right?
SPEAKER_01:Oh how come or you're now framing the conversation. I don't want to remember what language is. You're not allowed to frame this conversation.
SPEAKER_00:The original the original connotation in the Old Norse um was was that it was a word that simply described what hap was happening when a human being, not necessarily a woman, was grumbling or complaining about what? So it's to complain or to grumble. Um and and over the years, yes, it has it has it has evolved to simply describe um persistent reminding.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um and what okay, so let's just look at that persistent reminding. Why would one need to persistently remind Well, look how far do you want to go? Uh just no no no.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, could uh because when you when you when you talk about um Persistent reminding. You know what if if we're talking about causation, right? Yes. Causation.
SPEAKER_01:What of the aforesaid nagging?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, of the of the aforesaid nagging. Um one might ask, is it absolutely necessary for that reminder to be so persistent? For there even to be a reminder.
SPEAKER_01:Well, okay, so let's just take let's just take for example, shall we actually get into the weeds and take a specific example rather than talking in generic terms, which are never very effective. And when we coach people, we always say, you know, stop with the generic assessment. Let's go specifically. So let's just say, let's just say.
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna narrow it down into a specific perspective that is your perspective?
SPEAKER_01:No, no, yes, currently. Yes, currently.
SPEAKER_00:Let's just I can see where you're going with it. Okay. You want to narrow it down to a very specific instance, but you're gonna define that instance absolutely through your own lens. So knock yourself out.
SPEAKER_01:What other lens do I have but my own lens? Well, what other lens do you have?
SPEAKER_00:That's a very interesting question. And let's stop stop being didactic.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, that what you're not in a court of law. Can you stop talking about noting and accusing and offering evidence?
SPEAKER_00:I'm the one who feels like I'm on trial here, you know, for holding this particular perspective, and that's just why I want to be precise.
SPEAKER_01:All right, so let me be precise. Let me be precise.
SPEAKER_00:But you're but you but you just said you asked me the question, you know, um, what other perspective could I have? I could only have my own perspective. And that I think is the cause. You know, that is the root cause of the drama here.
SPEAKER_01:Is that because you, in a in an enlightened manner, hold many perspectives at all point and never ever just deep dive into your own perspective?
SPEAKER_00:I'm I'm not I'm not I'm not climbing clo climbing onto the plinth and saying that I'm perfect in this regard. Um what I what what I am saying I mean, yes, I do have reasonably good theory of mind. You know, so I can I can I can imagine what other people are thinking. Wow. But I'm Okay, okay, why don't you I'm not saying I'm not saying that that that that might persist. Go on. Well that that lets being able to sort of reasonably accurately um uh consider what another person might be thinking or feeling.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and you think you've got that, do you? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, in buckets. I mean I I if this is the thing that you think that um that I'm claiming, you know, that I'm that I'm that I'm ascending the you know the the the you know the the the mountain the height the heights of enlightenment, yeah. I never said I was enlightened.
SPEAKER_01:No, but you you're claiming that you've got good theory of mind.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah and what and and think, well, this is this is what's going on for them at the moment. This is what they might be thinking, this is what this is where their attention might be, you know, this is what they might be doing and requiring their their focus and concentration, and and being able to look at that and and and being able to make decisions without drama. Right. Um so there we go.
SPEAKER_01:Then you've brought up the other gendered thing, which is an accusation that women nag and make drama.
SPEAKER_00:Hang on a second. Why is that? I I have not said any of those things.
SPEAKER_01:I'm desperate to call something cut the drama.
SPEAKER_00:You're you're you're up the ladder of inference this morning. You are.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, let's just go back to an example of why I might do this perceived aforesaid nagging.
SPEAKER_00:Was I talking about you at the moment?
SPEAKER_01:Weren't we just talking about the nature of the I've told you we're not going to stay generic, we're going to go specifically. So I, for instance, when you nag me.
SPEAKER_00:Is that what it yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We're going to look at the dynamic because all women that get hang on, isn't that generic? Some women that listen to the podcast would this would be um a a frequently occurring dynamic in their home, and I would like to unpack it so we look at the other side of why they get accused of nagging.
SPEAKER_00:I'm with you 100%, because if we can unpack it in a in a in a in a in a good way, if we can unpack it, then maybe they can make a different decision and avoid a whole lot of um um drama, unnecessary drama at Christmas time, which I think is a good idea. So I'm I'm I'm 100% on board, Annie. Take it away.
SPEAKER_01:I'm verging on cancelling you and getting Alison back. She was much nicer. She was much nicer than you and was not sitting on a high horse. Let's just say, for example, I s uh which is probably where this occurred. I say to you, right? I I'm going out the door, possibly to coach somebody. Yeah, yeah, okay. And I say to you, and and this is on the back of the fact that the dog has eaten the sock recently in a Labrador that that plays in the garden. Don't don't interrupt me now because I'm speaking, okay? So don't interrupt me. So don't not, don't do anything to do.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, remember the dog drama.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no.
SPEAKER_00:You're talking about the sock drama, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01:No, I'm about to talk about another drama and you've interrupted me. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So but the dog thing was it was a sock drama, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Off the back of our own dog sock drama. Yeah. And then recently in the backyard, I encountered Claude, the Labrador. Oh yes, who had got into the family's bin, taken out an entire chicken carcass, and quietly um eaten it on the kitchen floor at about two in the morning when nobody could hear him.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01:And that and Claude happens to have a vet in the family, so that was lucky, but it wasn't it wasn't a great outcome.
SPEAKER_00:Why? What did bones get stuck?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so he got very sick from it. Oh really? Stop looking surprised. You know that he would get sick. It's a terrible thing to do. Well not all dogs get away.
SPEAKER_00:Anyway, not all dogs get sick.
SPEAKER_01:I'm going out the door.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're going out the door.
SPEAKER_01:And I say to you, darling, because I'm so nice.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Could could you, while I'm out, could you please I've folded, I've washed your clothes and I've I've I've folded them and I've I've said to you, uh I know you want to say something, would you please put your clothes away and also take the garbage out because when you do your deep dive into doing work, you often aren't that aware of what's going on. So could you please take the garbage out? And you went like this. Yep. Which is what you do. And then I came back about four hours later off getting in the bus, going into the city, coaching somebody, getting back on the bus, coming in, and the clothes were still there, and the garbage had not been emptied. And you have to confess that in terms of your distractability, you are a repeat offender.
SPEAKER_00:Can you hear the language that you're using?
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, David.
SPEAKER_00:You you had you had a crack at me about using legalistic terms. Now I'm an offender, you know. The accusation passes.
SPEAKER_01:So this is why women go, you're distracted, because you're like the absent-minded genius professor, right? So I go, can you do this? And you go like this, you go, yeah. I go, don't forget, and you go, No, I won't. And then I come back and it's not done. And then I say, You didn't do that, would you mind doing it? And then you go, okay, and then you forget again, and that's called nagging.
SPEAKER_00:Is it? Why what why would you describe that as nagging?
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's what you're describing. I mean, the first the If you don't take some responsibility here, if this lands all on my end, I'm never having you on the podcast again. It's really frigging irritating me. I ask you to do things and you forget all the time. What do you want me to do?
SPEAKER_00:I would not describe that as nagging. I wouldn't. You know? Um I think the first thing that you did was you gave me a direction. You know, take the rubbish out.
SPEAKER_01:Would you mind? I'm very polite.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:No, look, I appreciate every woman listening to this is going to hate you so much.
SPEAKER_00:I appreciate that you feel like you're being polite. No, look, I've got no issue with with with you telling me to do stuff. Absolutely, you know?
SPEAKER_01:So Well, where's the nagging come in then?
SPEAKER_00:Um well the nagging hasn't come in because when you come back in later and you remind me, remember I asked you to do that.
SPEAKER_01:But you've accorded you have said I've been you have said that the nagging has been driving you crazy. So when do I nag? When when do you nag? Yes.
SPEAKER_00:When do you nag? Um look, it it it it's when I'm I guess it's when I'm Oh are we back to you trying to focus?
SPEAKER_01:And I come in and I talk to you? Because if we get back to that again, I'm definitely going to stop you and drop you from the podcast. Because I am also trying to focus.
SPEAKER_00:Can I explain to you sort of um, you know, my my work method?
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:What what what I what I've discovered I kind of require in order to, you know, to get to get valuable work done.
SPEAKER_01:Fuck mate, you're gone. Well um I need to focus for a long period of time so I can get in flow. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:That's fairly diminishing.
SPEAKER_01:If you you you are just holding this position of some sort of moral high ground.
SPEAKER_00:It's not moral high ground, it's very practical. Okay, go on. It's practical. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Go on.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so look, you're you are um you you you're very you're very comfortable reminding me um that my brain works differently than um than than than other people.
SPEAKER_01:No, than just me.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, m you, but no, you you you you talk about the fact that you know you're you're you're neurotypical and I'm not. Yeah. Isn't that true? And so I got similar ADHD, you know. And isn't that true? Beyond the autistic spectrum. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh look um And how does that present itself? How does it present itself being ADHD?
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So um how does it present itself?
SPEAKER_01:What is the ramifications of having ADHD?
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Um excuse me, my malord, do I have to answer that question? Yes, you must answer that question. You know, that's that's the that's that's the way that a trial will be. Everyone's gonna hate you, just get on with it. Yeah, okay. Um Okay, so so so this is this is this is this is me and work.
SPEAKER_01:Um No, no, no, no, no. What is the ramifications of being ADHD in terms of functioning in an environment?
SPEAKER_00:In terms of functioning in an environment. Oh look, you know, I I I do tend to um take on tasks if I'm absolutely confident that I'm going to be able to finish it because it's important and interesting. Uh and uh and I do know that one of the things that happens to to to to people with ADHD is that cognitively they get tired. You know, they they they they get they get they get tired. Um the effort that it takes to concentrate in the absence of the you know the dopamine, um, the effort that it takes can sometimes wear people out. And then when that you know that um that that energy has been used, those resources have been used, uh you get a bit tired, you get a bit distracted. Um what happens? There there are there there's a need to recharge. And so what I found is that for me to actually get productive, to do the sort of the deep work and the integrative work and the stuff that requires a whole lot of concentration, I have to sort of build up some momentum and sort of go into the zone, you know, into the into the territory, and and it takes me about sort of 20, 25 minutes to get there. And then I can probably count on a good 50 minutes of of of really high value activity when I when I when I do the when I do the hard stuff, you know, when I when I do the administrative stuff, when I do the design work, um, and it's almost like I've got to get to that place so that I can actually think at you know something nearing the the height of my cognitive powers. So that's that's that's kind of what I I I kind of require.
SPEAKER_01:And what happens in terms of you completing tasks, etc., around the house, or saying you'll do something and then not doing it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, okay. Or leaving mess. Um let me um let r let me remind you, you know, just to just describe those times.
SPEAKER_01:Can you hear your tone? You're so annoying. It's so annoying. I want to strangle you. You're just trying to be precise. I'm not trying to be precise, you're trying to be superior. I'm not I know that you've got a process. I know that that you need to deep dive. I totally get it.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, who who who between us, yeah, yeah. Who who who's the best at at cleaning the kitchen? Like giving it a really good solid clean. You know, cleaning around the oven and underneath the the fridge and and and you know, doing that doing that that sort of thorough um comprehensive clean.
SPEAKER_02:Excuse me?
SPEAKER_01:What do you what? Yes, you're very good at using gumption. Congratulations. Fuck me. I clean it up all the time. I get up in the morning and I unstack and I restack the did. You want a medal for using gumption? Good for you.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not I'm not I'm not after a medal. I'm just saying that that's Yes, you're very good at a task.
SPEAKER_01:I'm good at repetitive tasks that get done every day, like doing the washing and bringing it in and making the bed in a repetitive stuff. That's right, you know, that's what I do.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. And and and and don't you see me do any of that at all?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I do, David, but not to the same degree.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. That's right. And and and this is your rhythm, right?
SPEAKER_01:And you do much much more of the administrative stuff. I'm aware of that. That's very good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but but I think I'm shit at it. But but if I come if I come back to the stuff that I have to do around the house that requires you know, w when it's complicated, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like what?
SPEAKER_00:Well, like um Well, the need to to to deconstruct the gas um burners on top of the cooktop in order to Yeah, you're very good at at g at at discrete tasks.
SPEAKER_01:You're excellent at it.
SPEAKER_00:But the d the the the the I'm talking about complex discrete tasks.
SPEAKER_01:What about it? Good. Yes, you're good at fixing that stuff. That's right. I'm good at getting up every morning and keeping things under control. What's the the my point is you're good at some stuff, I'm good at other stuff, I'm terrible technically. I have but I'm able to say to you, I'm terrible technically. You're t you it's so difficult for you to admit that you're not good at something.
SPEAKER_00:I I'm I'm I'm not rejecting Are you not good at some stuff? Yeah, yeah of course I'm not.
SPEAKER_01:What um go on. I've just said I'm terrible technically, useless.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Can't fix a tap, can barely turn on a computer, need you for everything. What are you not good at?
SPEAKER_00:Uh this sounds like a competition, right?
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no. Just tell me what you're not good at. It's so difficult for men to say, what are you not good at? You've already told me you're brilliant at theory of mind and fixing complicated things on the topic of the side.
SPEAKER_00:You said I was enlightened, but I'm just saying it's theory of mind. Because my what is enlightened? Tone. My tone.
SPEAKER_01:Go on, just tell me what you're not good at.
SPEAKER_00:Go on. Go on. Um Yeah, look, I'm I'm I'm listening I'm actually not good at anything that's um that's um that's complicated and administrative and not interesting um or exciting or stimulating or creative. You know, I tend I tend to drift off um and and not get those things done. Is that is that it is that okay?
SPEAKER_01:Are you good at keeping things tidy?
SPEAKER_00:Um Well, you see, this is the thing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_00:The specifics is that it depends. It depends on the it depends on the on the on the context in which the tidiness is required.
SPEAKER_01:On a daily basis, are you good at picking up your clothes and putting them away and doing all that stuff?
SPEAKER_00:Annie, I'm feeling accused again, right? And and and and and and if I keep feeling accused when I come and chat you on your podcast. You feel unsafe and tricky. I do, I do. This is not a place of psychological safety for me. And this is my point. This isn't a competition about who's doing more around the place, right? I think that you think that you're doing more around the place. And maybe you think you think that I you think that I think I'm doing more of the important stuff. Well you do. And it's true. Can we just talk for a moment about what's different about some of these tasks and why my, you know, strange brain is suited to certain tasks under certain conditions.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, go on.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm rubbish at other things under those conditions. The rubbish at other things is really good. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So go on.
SPEAKER_00:Um And that is that the things that that I notice you do are really quick. All right. It's not that it's not that it takes a short amount of time, but it's like this needs to be done, that needs to be done, you know, you know, bring this in, clean this up, put this away, take the dogs for a walk, um, you know, give someone a call, make that happen. It tends to be kind of short stuff. And so your brain can literally go to it, deal with it, and then move on. Go to it, deal with it, and move on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, whether this is necessary or not, my experience of being in the world is that I can't help but notice the complexity of what it is that we're dealing with, be it technological or administrative or relationship or any of those sorts of things.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And the way that I navigate through those complex things is that I have to, it takes me more time. Yeah. Right? And it takes me more time, not because I'm just doing something slowly, but it takes me time for my brain to get to the place where I can start to solve those things. I mean, look, my biggest, you know, my biggest um um uh uh spectre that I'm const constantly chasing is that I'm not gonna do a good job.
SPEAKER_01:I know.
SPEAKER_00:Uh and I what I have noticed about myself is uh is that I will do a good job when I can get to that place and solve the complexity. It's true. And all it takes is a knock on the door from you. Have you done this yet? Could you just take the dogs out for a moment? You know, could you could you please, you know, take the trash out? Could you please empty empty the dishwasher? Can you please just get this done? And it just takes it just takes one comment to take me out of that that that descent into deep work to for me to have to start all over again and and and not get back to it. You know, and and that's what sometimes happens.
SPEAKER_01:But it hasn't been happening lately because I've been leaving you alone for seven, eight hours at a time. I know this for a fact.
SPEAKER_00:And why? Why why are you doing that?
SPEAKER_01:Because you've asked me to repeatedly after your frigging discussion about the way your amazing brain works.
SPEAKER_00:Well that I'm not saying that my my brain is amazing. I'm just saying this is the way that it works, and for me to be able to finish the stuff that I'm starting.
SPEAKER_01:All right, so how do we do it so that you don't accuse me of nagging and I'm not left going, I need you to do this, but I can't interrupt you because you're because of your astonishing work brain. What do I do? Tell me, tell me, because I'm sure that there are other couples out there that are that are in the same dynamic.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we should be able to resolve it.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Um I haven't got a prepared answer, but what is occurring to me right now is to what we can do is we can think about um the way that we use our time in longer blocks. Because I think the thing because and and it's right, yes. Look, I I I do know that that that you ask me to do things, I'll be distracted, I'll say, yeah, I'll do that, it's not done. Um so I get that. You know, I I I get the need to remind me to do stuff, um, because maybe because I'm not thinking about it as much as you are at the time. But in the course of 24 hours, um I feel like things that could wait until, you know, the end of the day or the end of the working day or something like something like that, um that we can come back to it. My uh my impression is that you think that if I don't do it immediately, then it will never get done.
SPEAKER_01:Well that's often true.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. So that's the problem. You know? It it it's true, and it probably won't get done because I'm trying to And then I'll do it. And then and then and then you'll do it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Do it anyway.
SPEAKER_00:Or want to do it. Or or I will Well, you know, it it's making it sound like I do nothing about the place.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, it's not true. I know you do. I know you do a lot.
SPEAKER_00:So the the conversation that we had the other day which conversation? The the the thing that um you know where you t where I was able to explain to you that this isn't really helping for me. It this isn't really helping me, and then you you you you've been doing as as as as you've been doing. You've been absolutely amazing. You've been giving me these long tracts of time to go on. But I'm it it it doesn't need to be grand. It's just it's just kind of practical. Um, it's practical. It it don't interrupt me when um I'm doing complexity. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But but then like last night when I came in, you cooked a beautiful meal, but you forgot to turn the gas off. This is dangerous.
SPEAKER_00:This is uh this is the timing thing again. Right? You notice that the that the gas hot plate was still on, right? Um like thirty seconds after I had taken the the you know the potatoes off the steamer.
SPEAKER_01:David, I've come over after an hour and it's still been on. It's not just a timing thing, that the gas is just like this.
SPEAKER_00:So reminding me that the gas is yeah, that the that the burn is still going.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and um I've done it again. It's like that's not nagging. That that is reminding me. What I would refer to as nagging is when you grumble and complain with a short time frame ahead, you might you know, you that I have to change my trajectory. I've got to change what I am doing immediately. Um, that's the thing that I don't think is helpful. It's the and and and that's and that's what I think of when I think of it as nagging. Have you done it yet? No, I'm trying to concentrate on this.
SPEAKER_01:Well maybe I've got maybe there's an imperative.
SPEAKER_00:I'm maybe you know And when there is an imperative, it's not nagging. No, David, it has to be done now because of this. Well then that makes this more important than the other thing that I was doing, and I've got to shift focus, that's fine. But just it's just when it's ambient. Um when when you know when I when when when when I walk into the house, when I come home, you've immediately got something for me to do. Um and and if I don't do it immediately and you ask again and again. Because I don't want to have to keep asking.
SPEAKER_01:I'd rather you just did it.
SPEAKER_00:What if I was to say um No, I'm not gonna say it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, don't say that. It's not looking good. Um look. Oh, there's that Duna.
SPEAKER_00:Patience. That's that's what I'm talking about. I am impatient.
SPEAKER_01:You're ah I am definitely an impatient person. I know that.
SPEAKER_00:I'm forgetful, you're impatient.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um and I think Your your your your floor sounds a little bit just a little bit more sort of anodyne than mine.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I'm dangerously forgetful. Does that help?
SPEAKER_01:I'm dangerously forgetful.
SPEAKER_00:By the way, I've never I have never started a fire that I haven't put out. Oh my god. But I haven't. You know, it's I'm just reassuring people and I'm not you know I'm not burning houses left, right, and centre. But yeah, um I am I am dangerously forgetful. Um and um I'm impatient. And you are you are yeah, you are impatient.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm a quick mover. Really?
SPEAKER_00:You're a quick mover.
SPEAKER_01:I'm a quick mover. Yeah, yeah. I know it. I've got a lot of energy and I'm a quick mover. I know it's annoying. I know that I'm a little bit um um scoutmistress. I know that of myself.
SPEAKER_00:And I do think that thought was if I don't get him to do it now, then it will never be done.
SPEAKER_01:Well, sort of true.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's not true, and I think that it it's actually really unhelpful.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so because you can write it on a sheet of paper. And go, can you I'm gonna write it and then hand it, slip it under the door so I don't disturb your brilliance. And then you can look at it and go, Oh, uh when I come out of this room of amazing creativity, I'll go and I'll take the bin out.
SPEAKER_00:Can you imagine that I don't feel terribly affirmed by you at the moment?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't feel very affirmed either, so that's all right.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no, but you're wonderful.
SPEAKER_01:I know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay. And there you have it.
SPEAKER_01:Like, I know I'm impatient, but I'm still pretty great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so look, I mean, if if if if if anything from this conversation was going to be useful to to to your wonderful listeners.
SPEAKER_01:Please let me I'd love to hear from some of my listeners um if you encounter um any of these sort of ongoing issues. I'd I'd love to hear your perspective on it because we certainly do. And um and and we do, you know, we do pretty well, but it it sometimes gets a little bit sort of febrile.
SPEAKER_00:And I I wish I wish every time I mentioned the the the concept of drama.
SPEAKER_01:Oh please don't. It's un it's unfrigging bearable. Well no it's see this is the thing. It's gendered.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, you see that you see it as gendered.
SPEAKER_01:Um just find another word.
SPEAKER_00:You're into the whole, you know, vocabulary um Okay, drama, um unnecessary, unnecessary um tension in a relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Unnecessary Okay, to avoid unnecessary tension in a relationship, you know, can I suggest that the thing that might be creating that tension is not that either of the parties is fundamentally flawed in the way that they think or the way that they behave or the you know the values that they hold, that they are not fundamentally flawed. That it could be a simple, um a simpler explanation, and that is one person is moving very, very quickly and needs to see the result of actions, psychological actions, messages, communication, you know, needs to see things happen immediately in order to feel like they're being effective. If that's one person's paradigm and they're dealing with somebody who is slower, you know, more methodical, um, more in need of longer periods of time so that they can concentrate to do the things that they are doing, then the cause of the unnecessary tension, or drama, if you don't mind that word, um, could simply be that those two different speeds. Um what I know I can do is to be more effective at triaging my attention so that if you say you want something done and it has to be done now, and I can see that, then I will get up and do it immediately. But I can't do that all the time.
SPEAKER_01:So let's just take a really concrete example.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So we, I don't know, had dinner or something down at DY, down the beach.
SPEAKER_00:Let's see, which night was this?
SPEAKER_01:I can't remember. A few nights ago. Did we take dinner down or yeah, we took dinner down and there was stuff and mess and and then we came back.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then you dropped the trolley, just left the stuff, and then came straight in here into the office and began working on something else, right?
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So, in my worldview, I think we should complete what we were doing, which is unpack the thing, get the food away, put it away, put the stuff in the dishwasher, and then go on to the next task. So, and then I think I said to you, can we complete this before you go back into the office? And you said, Yes, that's fine.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So is that not nagging?
SPEAKER_00:That's not nagging. Oh, okay. That's not nagging.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:All right.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I can't I can't I can't quite remember the the circumstances of that evening. Okay, so I think I prepared the meal beforehand and packed it up into the into the trolley.
SPEAKER_01:It doesn't matter, it's just it's just at the end of it we want to complete that before we go to the room.
SPEAKER_00:And do you know why it was that I felt the need to come into the studio and get back to work? Well I d I don't know, I can't remember. Was it because I was delivering that thing the next day or no no no no I just think you you know you'll unpack something that you you know, like a bit of equipment, right?
SPEAKER_01:That's what you do, and then you just leave all the packaging and you go and use the thing. You don't it's not like a you don't have a focus on task completion and that sort of stuff, because it's boring, I think. So should I say something at that, is that nagging? What I did with the packaging, I just picked up the packaging myself and put it away and cleaned up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I I I guess I guess it's it's if if I'm I would think of it as nagging, is is if I'm sort of giving you signals, please don't interrupt me now because my evaluation of the entire situation, okay? Um, is that this is the best place for me to be working at the moment because this is what is required. Um and so I've got to be able to communicate that to you in a way that doesn't get you cross, um, that does give you the opportunity to say, no, no, no, no, no, this is my point of view. I do want you to do it now for these reasons. Um I think that that's our way forward, you know, that we that we actually get better at in communicating in that moment because in all of those moments it should be feasible that I will either do what you want me to do, or I will do what I want to do, depending upon the consequences of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And um So it's it really is around having understanding that we work at at different paces and com and communicating better in the moment.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. So are you are you are you prepared to to cultivate great greater patience?
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:You know?
SPEAKER_01:So on that note, Smart Smart Women, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:What's David really thinking, and does this really need to be done for that?
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for listening, Smart Women.
SPEAKER_00:You're welcome, Annie.
SPEAKER_01:No, you can't have the last word.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's not the last word. What is it? It's the second last word. Go on. I just I I just wanted to wish everybody a peaceful and and I'm not at Christmas yet. Drama free drama free lead up to to Christmas. Because we know that there's a lot of drama. We know there's a lot of drama approaching Christmas.
SPEAKER_01:We're not at the Christmas episode yet. We've gone too early.
SPEAKER_00:We hop we hope you have um the week beforehand, you know, managing all of your your uh social events.
SPEAKER_01:Thank thank you, David, but we will be talking to them prior to Christmas a little bit closer to it, but thank you for your thoughts.
SPEAKER_00:Well you you will be.
SPEAKER_01:You you may well be if I allow you back on. Yeah, well.
SPEAKER_00:So if I if I agree to it.
SPEAKER_01:H here today.
SPEAKER_00:If you can promise me a bit of psychological safety.
SPEAKER_01:I'll promise not to trigger you. So thank you so much, smart women. Our thoughts are very much uh with our fellow Sydney ciders um today, and we hope that everybody who is in hospital is making some progress. Um thank you so much for tuning in, and as always, stay safe, stay well, keep your critical thinking hats on. See you later. Bye.
