Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
Give the scammers the boot this holiday season.
We move from a raw reflection on the Bondi tragedy to practical tools that restore agency at a stressful time of year. Five major Christmas scams are unpacked with psychology, red flags and clear steps to protect your money and your calm.
• how urgency, generosity and time pressure raise risk
• fake online stores and counterfeit deliveries
• parcel delivery phishing and malware traps
• travel deals that never existed
• banking impersonation and account locked texts
• gift card payment demands and why they are untraceable
• scarcity bias, social proof and loss aversion explained
• simple safety rules and when to call the bank
• reporting to Scamwatch and supporting family
• slowing down as the strongest defence
Share this episode with someone doing their Christmas shopping online. Forward it to your family group chat because the best offence against scams is knowledge. Over the next few weeks, I’m going to be releasing three chapters a week from my first book, The Audiobook of Why Smart Women Make Bad Decisions. Do yourself a favour and listen.
Proudly sponsored by COUP — helping brands cut through the noise with bold, smart marketing. Visit the http://coup.co website or book a meeting with us at. https://go.oncehub.com/RequestMeeting
Well, hello, smart women, and welcome back to the Christmas edition of the Why Smart Women Podcast. Um, David and I are going to be spending um this episode talking about how to protect yourself against Christmas scams and also, you know, even perhaps how to protect yourself against annoying relatives over the Christmas period. Um before I do that, um I have written a piece on the Bondi tragedy here in Sydney, which I'm going to attempt to read. If I can't read it because it makes me emotional, I'm going to get David to read it. But here it is. Sunday, 7 p.m. in our small courtyard, cocooned in the warm embrace of food, wine, candles, and family, the first tendril of the news reaches us via my son's phone. It seems minimal at first. Perhaps an alcohol fueled neighborhood dispute spilled out onto the street. A couple of cop cars, all would be resolved. People could go back to their drinks, their picnic blankets, their complaints about the failure of their sunblock. Conversations about who's coming to Christmas, the swapping of Christmas pudding recipes would resume. The middle child could target her mother's arm and say, You said I could have one more swim. The child sitting cross legged on the grass could beg for another piece of chala. Her mother could tut at her not to get crumbs on her new dress, her grandmother bought her for Hanika. Her baby brother could squirm, querulous in his father's arms. The rabbi could go back to talking about love and light for our fellow citizens, fresh from taking a meal to his Anglican neighbour, too unwell to turn on the stove. And we sat in our courtyard hoping that the media reports were perhaps hyperbolic, but then our phones showed them running, dropping their towels and drink bottles and bags as they ran. And a Holocaust survivor lay on his wife to protect her, and sixty one years later in a terrible twist of fate was felled by the same hatred. And mothers separated from their children in the torrent of humanity running from the hatred saved another mother's child because a child is a child. And people hid behind trees and cars and watched as Ahmed Al Ahmed, a Muslim greengrocer, ran towards the shooter and disarmed him with his arms and his fury. Violent Islamic rhetoric and the disturbing social spread of the astonishingly vile neo Nazis does not arise in a vacuum. Neo Nazis are swelling their ranks by enlisting young, disaffected white men desperate to return Australia to its glorious all white past. No Jews, no brown people. We can't put the genie back in the bottle. The febrile social media landscape is here to stay, feeding the minds of the disaffected with righteous aberrance. The inculcation of hatred takes place over time. It is not a single event that disconnects our brains from its humanity. It is not a moment in time that robs perpetrators of their capacity to see victims as humans with a life, concerns, ambitions, families, love, romance, arguments, a dislike of coriander and love of mozzaballs. It is complex social forces that corral terrorists into a room where they feel that the correct course of action is to pick up a firearm and murder people they've never met. To give in to othering. Dehumanizing takes a concerted effort on the part of the ideologies that crook their fingers at those who nurse their grievances and find comfort and belonging in the labyrinthine depths of their conspiracies. But othering dehumanizing lives in all of us. It is not just the purview of violent, far right extremism, of neo Nazis, of violent jihadists. They show us the end game, the tragic conclusion of immersing oneself in a rhetoric where your God is the best god and hatred of the other is savoured, chewed over, and finally acted on. But we are all at the behest of our ancient tribal brains. Unless a gargantuan effort is taken to resist the pull of our own group, we will find an enemy to resist, to defile, to hate. We will find a media to bolster our distaste, to excuse and sanitize the excoriation of our enemies. I can feel the pull in myself to find retribution, to excise the hate, but how? Extremism is complex. It is easy to fall for the rhetoric promulgated by those who will use this to further their own political ends, by offering simplistic solutions that appeal to our tribal brains. We want answers, we want to regain our agency, we all feel unsafe at sea. How could this happen in our beautiful safe country? And yet the shooting of the police in Poropunka by the radicalized train family, the we and bill are killers by the still at large Desi Freeman, the murder of 51 Muslims in New Zealand by the Australian far right extremist Brendan Tarrant, all a precursor to Sunday, all in the thrall of dangerous conspiracy theories demanding violence, all inculcated by online madness, all consumed by hate for the other. The Jewish community will set Shiva for their dead. They will conduct themselves with dignity and try to return to their lives as will we. But the tragedy for us will gradually be subsumed by the distractions of our lives. We will return to our courtyard, but for them their courtyards will be missing a child, a grandmother, a best friend. And the neighbour of the rabbi will not hear the knock on his door. There are not two sides to this. Let us not indulge in false equivalence. These people were not part of a war, they were at the beach. These people should have been safe to go for their last swim before sundown, safe to spill cella crumbs on their good dress, safe to go home and rub moisturizer on their sunburned arms, safe to text their best friend to discuss pudding. They should have been safe.
SPEAKER_00:Well, can I say well done, Annie? Sorry, it's David chipping in here. Um the first time Annie read me that um or tried to read me uh her post, um she couldn't. She have uh she dissolved into tears about five times. Um and so I'm very impressed with you for for getting it out. Well done.
SPEAKER_01:Ah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Well done. And um and look, uh perhaps um the thing to do today is that we shift to a very practical um conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Um well I think we all feel so incredibly powerless in the face of what has happened that we're all looking for some agency or something that we can do to help. And I would like to think, to your point, uh, when we discussed this this morning, that it would be good if we can help people for to maybe not get scammed.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Absolutely. And and and you know, it's a it's it's a different kind of crime, um, but the effects can be devastating. And um so what are the scams? Um and also not all not just what are the scams, but what are the vulnerabilities that are that are particularly prevalent at this time of year? I mean, December is peak of vulnerability.
SPEAKER_02:Why? Why is it?
SPEAKER_00:Well, everyone's time poor.
SPEAKER_02:Everyone's emotional.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yep, yep. And um and and and often people just give themselves the license to spend more online.
SPEAKER_02:I've stopped spending online. Have you? I want you to know that. I I just uh the whole thing now makes me so anxious and nervous that I don't know what to trust anymore. So I just go to the shop.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, okay. I prefer to go to the shop. Look, I'm I'm I'm I'm happy with that. You should be happy about that because it's going to cost us less money. I am, I am, I am. And and and look, the thing is that is that when there are a whole lot of people shopping online, feeling time poor, emotionally dialed up, those are the exact conditions that scammers exploit. Um they exploit urgency, generosity, and and and your bargain hunting instincts, so that minor lapses in critical thinking actually can turn into big losses.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So look, um, I mean, what we want to do is to equip you with some specific evidence-backed knowledge about the five most damaging Christmas scams and uh the things that you can do in order to protect yourself, your family, and uh So there are these sort of an extension of scams that happen all year, but they just get sort of ramped up. That's exactly right. Yeah, yeah. I mean that they they they they play on the same psychological vulnerabilities as we'll discuss, um, but they just tend to be more acute at this particular time.
SPEAKER_02:Because of what we just talked about. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, look, the uh scam number one is the fake online store, the social media ghost shop. You know, everybody's selling stuff online these days, and when you are faced with a slick-looking website or a social media shop with that says like 80% off those times, 80% off. Too good to miss on popular Christmas items, you know. Electronics and games and toys and it's a good thing. Toys and things, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They'll take your money and they will deliver nothing. Or they will only deliver a cheap counterfeit. So what Oh they can actually deliver nothing, right? They can deliver that's right. Sometimes there's absolutely nothing. So you see an ad for a heavily discounted item, you know.
SPEAKER_02:I got one. Did you know I got I got scammed?
SPEAKER_00:You did? I bought it. Well, that was the dog book.
SPEAKER_02:Did you have to bring the dog book up again? Well, no, I the dog book is an embarrassment to me.
SPEAKER_00:It is what$150 for a was wrong with me. A dog training book? But on the front on the on on bought off the internet?
SPEAKER_02:On the cover, it had a nice dog. It had no, it had it had it had Annie's Annie and Ryder.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no!
SPEAKER_02:You saw it, you came and looked over my shoulder and said, Hey, did you just order that? I was like, Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, like I never got the money back and I never got the book.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_02:I tremember I tried to cancel it and I threatened them.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and this and this is after you've written two books on critical thinking and remote in your life.
SPEAKER_02:Well, no, that's the thing. I'm not an idiot. And nobody's an idiot.
SPEAKER_00:And we really shouldn't use the word idiot or idioscene. The thing is that people are vulnerable.
SPEAKER_02:It's true, it's true, it's true. It's it's a bad thing to say, and I I'm gonna I'm gonna withdraw it immediately because we are vulnerable. And things like the scarcity bias, you know, last minute sales, this is only available for a limited, you know, period, absolutely triggers our brains, right? The scarcity bias kicks in, I've got to have it. There's only a couple, and one of them has to be mine.
SPEAKER_00:And then and then there's another sort of heuristic uh that that's associated with social proof. It's like if if we see that there are large numbers of people who are taking advantage of this this bargain, then we're inclined to do so as well.
SPEAKER_02:So that's social proof, is that like when people you see a comment like, This is the best piece of bamboo underwear I've ever had in my whole life, and it's amazing and cool, and I can't believe it, and arrived on time and it's in a beautiful, you know, teal colour.
SPEAKER_00:Words, words, words.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, and there's also loss aversion, which is that you're more motivated to avoid missing out than gaining something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, anybody anybody who um who was who was convinced by the timing of the Black Friday sales, um, I've got to buy this now, otherwise I'll never get a good price ever again.
SPEAKER_02:And those Black Friday sales went on for weeks. Yes. Bullshit, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and and the um and we know that the that the rush that happens in December can also suppress natural due diligence. You're in fast thinking mode, and so you're you're much more likely to make decisions that aren't supposed to be.
SPEAKER_02:And if you're in um, I don't know, I mentioned um I think two episodes ago that I have just finished reading Melanie Traceett King's book, which is coming out probably next year. And um she talks about it's such a good metaphor, she talks about the elephant and the rider.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And there's there there's so many indicators socially that our that our emotions are to be trusted, you know, that we you know you get a gut feeling and you've got to go with it. But to her point, um the elephant, which is the limbic system, the emotional part of the brain, is making these decisions, and then the rider is trying to post-rationalise them. So, of course, all the things that we're talking about here, the scarcity bias, you know, loss aversion, um, all that is all the elephant. It's all the elephant part of the brain. Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:I've heard that metaphor. It's a great metaphor. Described in a in a in a number of um the different formats. Jonathan Hayes' Moral Foundations theory uh talks about our values, our our deeper values being the elephant, uh, and they're the things that drive us, you know, values, emotions, they're the things that will drive our our decision making and and and our conscious brain, the writer, yeah, just doesn't have the strength to overcome that.
SPEAKER_02:It doesn't. And and as I said in the begin in the piece I read at the beginning, you need a gargantuan effort, right? Yeah, yeah, to to override these impulses.
SPEAKER_00:To override these impulses, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Now these impulses we're talking about, I can feel it in myself. Yes. You know, when I see something, I remember I showed you that laptop. Yes, because my laptop fell off the table and it was a frigging disaster.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so here we get the the the first red flag, it was a 70% off.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, 70% off. I was like, awesome, David, I can get this for$400.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so so if if if any of these advertisements advertise a huge discount, much lower than the reputable site for the same brand, um, then that's a red flag.
SPEAKER_02:And what else c what else is a red flag?
SPEAKER_00:If there's no physical address on the website, you know, if they don't have a shopfront, a warehouse, you know, if they don't have uh an ABN, if they don't have a clear returns policy, um if they only offer an obscure payment method like a bank transfer or crypto or gift cards that can't be traced.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yes, that gift card thing is rubbing.
SPEAKER_00:Um but that that's one of the the red flags around these fake sites. And look, I've I've I've done I've been playing around with AI over the last couple of months, and honestly, to to produce a site that looks like the real deal, it can even have a physical address. It could have an ABN, it could have a returns policy that is entirely made up.
SPEAKER_02:So how can you in in that if that's the case, what I mean, what do you look for? Like spelling grammar errors? You often see that, right? There's a grammar error.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, but you're only going to notice that if you slow down. So we're we're you know, if we're in elephant season at the moment, we are then it's a time when scarcity creates urgency, fake reviews create trust, your December time pressure shuts down your critical thinking. And yes, it's not idiocy, it's just how it's not idiocy, it's not required.
SPEAKER_02:It's not, it's not. It's definitely not.
SPEAKER_00:So um, you know, that's the that's that's the fake website. Um the second scam that we want to alert people to is the parcel delivery, the the track your package phishing. So this is huge, and it seems to be getting more sophisticated with every year. Yeah. Um I think parcel scams have quadrupled year on year over the last few years. So so what it is is that a scammer will impersonate your postal delivery service or your courier, and they will send a text message or an email saying your parcel's delayed or it needs a fee, and then it steals your details or it'll install malware on your device.
SPEAKER_02:But we can only do that if you click on something, is that right?
SPEAKER_00:Only if you click on it. So you get the message, you know, your parcel's held up.
SPEAKER_02:Your parcel's held up.
SPEAKER_00:And then there's a link if you're not.
SPEAKER_02:And the problem at the moment, because people have got dozens of parcels coming.
SPEAKER_00:That's exactly right. Yeah, that so that th those are the vulnerabilities that we have at this time.
SPEAKER_02:So how do they do it? They then you click on the link and then what happens?
SPEAKER_00:They Oh well, I mean, you know, that link could lead to a fake tracking web page that that asks for for card details or login details or payment. Sometimes it will prompt you to download an app that will help you track the parcel. Well, that that app is the devil. It'll it'll it'll it'll install malware um and and then you know the doors are open and then and then yeah, and it this happened to my friend recently. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:She ordered something from um she got a message about a a parcel. Yes, yes. And she had 17,000 things coming because she's a big shopper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And one was naughty.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So so See, this has just derived on my phone. Spend a hundred dollars. Let's look at this. Um, spend a hundred dollars on gift cards in store at Anaconda and get a twenty dollar gift card. DLN's the 24th of the 12th. Now, there's so much in that. It's urgent, right? It's urgent. Now, is that real? How do I know that's real or not, Daniel?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we don't know that that's real. And also, and also when you hear the word gift card.
SPEAKER_02:Gift, it's like a gift to me.
SPEAKER_00:A gift card. You know, did you did you notice that little dopamine hit in your brain there? Oh yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's free. Spend$100 on gift cards and get a$20 gift card. Free, free, free. Free, free, free, free, free.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay. So there's the there's there's the sunk cost fallacy um that is p that that that they're playing on with these kind of scams. Um if you've ordered something and something's coming, you've already sunk costs into getting this particular item. Even by opening that text message like you just did then. I didn't open it. Yes, you did. What? It arrived, you opened it and you read it to you.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't hit the link.
SPEAKER_00:You didn't hit the link, but you opened you you stopped what you were doing, and I opened it and you spend a moment to have a look at the link. And now what? And you are vulnerable to sunk cost fallacy.
SPEAKER_02:I've already spent time on it.
SPEAKER_00:I've already spent time on it. I might as well keep going.
SPEAKER_02:You may as well keep going because I want that$20 gift card. And we've got to we I think the the thing in all of this is that our brains, um, you know, we're the same brain um that our forebears um operated out of, which we are used to living in small tribes. Right? Yes, yes. I am the in-tribe.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:You know, Harrison over there may be the out tribe, but we are the in-tribe, and I see this, this comes up on my phone.
SPEAKER_00:You're so mean to Harrison.
SPEAKER_02:I am mean to Harrison, but he's he's he's gonna get three weeks off. He's gonna be fine. Um, but in-stored anaconda, right? Yes. You get it now, is some part of my brain anaconda is now part of my tribe.
SPEAKER_00:Ah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And why wouldn't I trust them? They're gonna give me something because they're part of my tribe.
SPEAKER_00:That's right, they're a trusted brand. So that's the authority bias.
SPEAKER_02:The authority bias, and and they're in my yeah, that's right. So the thing is, my our brains are used to working in small groups. We need to trust people, otherwise, we're screwed. But unfortunately, our small group is now extended to every single person that has access to the frigging internet.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I said frigging a lot.
SPEAKER_00:So you're you're you're being exploited when you uh when you click on those links. Don't click on the links.
SPEAKER_02:Just as I that's such a good yeah, it of course it it it hijacks your delivery anxiety, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I need it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just just just have the anxiety. Don't click on the link, um, and take time to find out where that email or text came from.
SPEAKER_02:Now, what if what happens, David? Let's just say if you do. You've fallen for it and then you're embarrassed.
SPEAKER_00:We're embarrassed. Don't be embarrassed. Well, this is what we're trying to say. Um you've made a mistake because you're vulnerable. It's elephant season.
SPEAKER_02:It's elephant season.
SPEAKER_00:Call the bank immediately. Just let them know. Yeah. Cancel the card, dispute the payment. Um if you have downloaded something, then you know the drill antivirus and your malware. Antivirus software?
SPEAKER_02:Well, how I don't know. Well, uh let's just say I've been scammed.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And what do I do then?
SPEAKER_00:And you've downloaded malware?
SPEAKER_02:I've downloaded it.
SPEAKER_00:Well then you've you your computer needs a clean out.
SPEAKER_02:And how do I do that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I th I think what you should do is take it to take it take it to the computer repair person and tell them what you've done and ask them to help you clean it out.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Couldn't you do it?
SPEAKER_02:Not that I'm saying I've done it, but could you do it?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, look, I um I'm look, I'm not a malware specialist.
SPEAKER_01:Aren't you?
SPEAKER_00:No? Uh you know, I've I've got my I've got my um my firewalls and and those sorts of things in place. Let's keep going. God almighty. All right. Okay, we'll come back to that. Just don't Andy, just don't click on the link.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Just don't click on the link.
SPEAKER_02:Um okay, so between January and October 2023, so for our overseas listeners, we are just talking about Australians here. I'm sure you'll have your own horrible data. So between January and October 2023, Australians reported over 11,000 parcel delivery scams to ScamWatch, losing more than 720,000 with warnings this could escalate over Christmas. That's 2023. God knows what it's like now.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. That's a that's a very, very, very formal and and tidy piece of fact. I liked it. It's relevant. Generation for Okay, yeah, absolutely. And and look, I've got no doubt that it's higher. So look, it's um it it's out there, it's happening. Um hundreds of people are going to be scammed today by delivery one. Do not um do not be one of them. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Uh-oh, uh-oh. Here we go. Do you know I saw I saw one of these recently, really recently, Too Good to Be True holiday. I thought, how good would that be if we could just it was Fiji hop on a plane, all inclusive or all inclusive or calm drinks, dr drinks$12 a night.$12 a night and flights for like$44. I mean, it wasn't, it was, but it was really super cheap. I remember thinking, I remember thinking because it of course it gets into the optimistic part of my brain. I'd love that. I'd love that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:How do they do that?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so they they create the theatre so that you see a limited time bargain for a flight or a villa via an ad or email or WhatsApp.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Then the site that you visit will mimic a legitimate travel brand, and it'll give you fake itineries. You pay in full via a bank transfer and uh and non-refundable methods so that you secure that amazing price, you've got the urgency, the scarcity, yeah. And then closer to departure, the booking's cancelled. Or or it's discovered to be non-existent, and then the agent becomes unreachable and demands extra payments.
SPEAKER_02:Can you imagine the the emotional pain of that? You've got all excited, you're going to go to Fiji, you're staying in the outrigger, you know, you're looking forward to the margaritas.
SPEAKER_00:Christmas is taken care of.
SPEAKER_02:Christmas, you're looking forward to the margaritas and your and your your prawn linguini.
SPEAKER_00:And it evaporates.
SPEAKER_02:It's disgusting.
SPEAKER_00:And yet. It's disgusting. So, you know, what are the vulnerabilities there? Again, scarcity, you know, the whole out Last Seats, like um, loss aversion, you don't want to miss out on giving a family that lovely special treatment.
SPEAKER_02:And again, that arises out of your own personal generosity, right?
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Yeah isn't it? It just sucks that people that people use generosity um as the way in.
SPEAKER_02:People are evil.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and and but I think we have to accept that we also will be subject to confirmation bias, where we want it to be true, you know? We want this to happen, and so we look for reasons to believe it rather than um Again.
SPEAKER_02:The elephant, the elephant in our brains really wants it to be true. So let's just unpack that notion of confirmation bias. You want it to be true, so you look for reasons to believe it, so you discount red flags.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:They get excised from your um cognitive experience, and what would some of those red flags be that you would excise?
SPEAKER_00:If you if you if you've got a a a travel deal that is significantly underneath, you know, under market, yeah. Under market during a peak period.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, why would that be?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, why why why would a hotelier um give you a a ridiculously low rate when the place is likely to be booked up in high season? Um if if they want full upfront payment via bank transfer.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's right. That they never want that. That's wrong, isn't it? Because of com, if you think about accommodation.
SPEAKER_00:Well, booking.com, yeah, you you you pay when you when you stay.
SPEAKER_02:You pay when you stay.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you ca there are options to to to do the upfront and refundable, you get a discount for Yeah, but generally you can cancel a hotel like quite close to the oh man, yeah, tickets, what else?
SPEAKER_02:Tickets not appearing in airline account. Okay, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so so if you bought a ticket, then and and so you're flying with Qantas, even if you've bought it from a third party, yeah, immediately that should appear in your your Qantas itinerary if it's been booked properly under your name.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:So if you book the flight and it doesn't show up, then you are probably in that situation where once again you're gonna have to contact your bank, you'll you'll want to dispute the transaction.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and look, and and no no landline or no no um no physical address, no office address, just all through text or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Look, I think I think there's a um there's a belief that people are starting to accept without critical thinking that businesses don't need a bricks and mortar address. Um, you know, we know that that that some people can set up an internet only store.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But equally someone can set up a pretend internet only store and not be traceable.
SPEAKER_02:This happened in Manley recently. Um a man was, I think, I don't know if he was fined or if he was jailed, but he was convicted of a fake Airbnb com accommodation in Manley. The whole thing was fake, there was no unit. And I think he'd you know they can accrue thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. And how just disgusting that people would arrive at the address and it's oh my god. I don't know how people sleep straight anyway.
SPEAKER_00:Look, the emotional weight of giving your family the perfect Christmas holiday will override your scepticism unless you are vigilant.
SPEAKER_02:You just want it, you want it to be true.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so scam number four, uh, and gee, I get these all the time. Um is that uh it's the account locked banking phishing trick.
SPEAKER_02:Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00:So um it's oh yeah, yeah, I know this. Yeah, so it's it's a it's a highly polished um phishing with a pH um message that claims that your bank or your you know your government account or something like that is locked. It's locked and and and and what they do is they push you to verify your details on a fake site.
SPEAKER_02:And this has been I I did read about this. This has been um this has been a really uh supported by AI right, and they did flag it as a major concern ahead ahead of 2024-25 Christmas sales.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, you get it looks really valid, though. You get a realistic email or an SMS, you know, with your bank's branding and and it's it's spelt out properly and it's laid out properly. And it says, you know, there is suspicious activity or account suspension likely.
SPEAKER_02:Suspicious activity, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and so it says, you know, click on the link and then you'll go to a cloned login page. And then when you enter your credentials and sometimes your your two-factor authentication code, now the scammer have access to your real account, they'll change the passwords and they'll drain your funds. So what makes you vulnerable? Certainly it's fear, you know? Account locked. What do you mean my account is locked? I need access to money, I have to act quickly. Loss aversion, I'll miss the sales, authority bias. If they've done a good job at recreating the bank's logos, etc.
SPEAKER_02:Um and authority bias is really strong in the brain, right? Yep, yep. And it goes back to that same part of our brain that's used to operating in small groups, right, when there was only like 60 to 100 people, the person you know, the head of the tribe had to be respected and had to be listened to. Yes. And unfortunately that same impulse occurs in our cognitive activity.
SPEAKER_00:So the red flags.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, what are they?
SPEAKER_00:If they go dear customer.
SPEAKER_01:Ah, instead of your name.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But that's I mean, dear customer is a is a is a shocking red flag. But even if they go dear Annie or Dear David, they may have got your name.
SPEAKER_02:Because you know we love our names being used. Yeah, we do. It makes us feel uh we love it.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Annie. That's a really lovely point that you just made.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Um if if you looked at the link, and um don't click on the link, but if you looked at the link, but it did not look like the simplest, you know, most um efficient um official link with just the you know the company's brand name and maybe the division, if it's got other letters, numbers in the link, then it is probably a scam one.
SPEAKER_02:What I don't know what you just said. I don't understand what you just said.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so if it's just click on this link, if you look at the link and the link is a random collection of numbers later.
SPEAKER_02:How would you be have the I mean that seems like a really small and tiny thing to look for?
SPEAKER_00:What the um the the the the letters and numbers in the link?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Or the letters and the numbers in the email.
SPEAKER_02:In the link, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Just look a link.
SPEAKER_02:I don't hit any links. I think it's the thing. Don't hit a link.
SPEAKER_00:Don't hit any links.
SPEAKER_02:Don't go near a link.
SPEAKER_00:But you're gonna want to hit links because sometimes the links will be coming from somebody that is legitimate.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, can I tell you something?
SPEAKER_00:Can I stop you?
SPEAKER_02:No. So I uh lately when I've been using Google, which I do a lot, it said it's mate kept making me um validate myself. It what? Is that a scam?
SPEAKER_00:No, it's not. No, no, no. I mean all all all all the images.
SPEAKER_02:How many crossword crossword walks, how many buses are in there?
SPEAKER_00:How many curtains? You know, pick pick pick the images with the handbags in it. Yeah, that um yeah, so all of that stuff is going on because this is the this is the institution's response to the scamming.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I see. Good.
SPEAKER_00:But the thing is that now that the scammers have learnt the language of the two-factor authentication and all of those sorts of things, they're becoming more sophisticated.
SPEAKER_02:And so Can't they do something, you know, actually constructive with their lives? Can't they get a job?
SPEAKER_00:Well, this is a good one. And you you don't know you don't know their circumstances. I don't care about their circumstances. Stop ripping people. Maybe that maybe they're people from third world countries who need to feed their families by taking back from the Oh my god. Sorry. Okay. So if you don't want to be um if you don't want to be scammed in this way um Oh, they also they can ask for your password, right?
SPEAKER_02:Or your pin, can't they?
SPEAKER_00:Well, well that I mean that's a red flag. If they say, you know, if we're the bank, you know, put in your password, give us your pin, you know, do all of the What did you just remember a time when you I don't know, I'm really the whole thing's making me really anxious.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, go on.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Look, just never click on links and unsil unsolicited security alerts.
SPEAKER_02:Show s show s show somebody else. That's the other thing. Yeah. Like get a, you know, get a friend or a family member and go, this has come, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:Or call or call the bank.
SPEAKER_02:Or call the bank, get it's a really good idea.
SPEAKER_00:I've just been sent this, you know, d has it come from you. Okay. Um be aware that you will be vulnerable to being scared by these kind of impos these kind of communications into fast action. And that's what they're counting on. So we're not going to let that happen.
SPEAKER_02:And what happens again if if you've fallen for it? What do you do?
SPEAKER_00:If you've fallen for it, call the bank. You know, immediately say it again, don't be embarrassed. Um, you know, report it to ScamWatch. Um take action. Don't be, you know, don't be worried that people will think less of you. It's elephant season.
SPEAKER_02:It's elephant season and and the AI enhanced scams, it's just made everything. Yeah, yeah. Look immediately. Change the game. Change the game.
SPEAKER_00:They look perfect. Perfect spelling, perfect branding, perfect tone. You know, your usual this looks dodgy radar. Is it working?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need a new rule. Never click links in security alerts.
SPEAKER_00:Right? And the last of our scams is the is the is the gift card. The gift card scam does deserve a um a mention all on its own.
SPEAKER_02:Um what even I wouldn't fall for that.
SPEAKER_00:Scammers will do is they they will demand payment in a iTunes or a Google Play, supermarket, or retail gift card.
SPEAKER_01:So weird.
SPEAKER_00:And why will they do this? Because it's completely non-traceable. Essentially the way that it works is that you'll get called or you'll get a message from where? Claiming to be from the government or the tax office or or or or or the electricity or the water or tech support.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, and then they want payment now. So they've got the urgency thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's right. But and and what they do is they build urgency into it. They say, listen, um, in order to avoid trouble, um, we need urgent payment. And the safest way or the fastest way for you to pay us, you know, don't go through the banking system, just go into the supermarket or, you know, online, buy us a gift card, upload the code, and um and that's how you'll pay us. Now, if you do that, then I just want to say, in my defence, I would not fall for that. That's right. Well, you're not a gift card person.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and and for people who do are comfortable using gift cards, you know, I wouldn't I'd be I'd be happy to get um a Bunnings gift card for Christmas. You know, rather rather I don't even like gift cards. Rather rather than more t-shirt. You don't like gift cards?
SPEAKER_02:Don't you like t-shirts?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know. You you're gonna say you don't like gift cards because it's lazy.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's lazy. Yeah, yeah. Like buy the gift, go to the shop. Go to the shop.
SPEAKER_00:Buy the same t-shirt that you did last year.
SPEAKER_02:Do you not want a t-shirt this year?
SPEAKER_00:I'm sick of getting t-shirts at Christmas. I'd rather have a bunnings gift card.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not gonna buy you a bunny's gift card. But then what do you want from Bunnings?
SPEAKER_00:Um well then I could then I could.
SPEAKER_02:Just give me five options now, go.
SPEAKER_00:I could give you the um the the the clothes line. I can put the clothes line up for you.
SPEAKER_02:That's for me. I know. You can't be doing a Christmas thing that's so Yeah, but then you'll stop nagging me about the um the um the washing. You're not gonna go back to the nagging.
SPEAKER_00:No, okay, no, we're not gonna go back to Okay, um uh look, I'd be happy with the Burning's gift card.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but I But you're not.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. So so you're unlikely to to to fall for this scam, but if if gift cards are part of your your currency, um if you are under pressure, if there is an authority telling you to do this quickly.
SPEAKER_02:Apparently they can even say you're gonna be arrested.
SPEAKER_00:You'll be deported. Yeah, no, I mean uh unless you do this immediately, if if gift cards are currency for you, then you then you're vulnerable here. So the red flags are if you have any government, any authority, any bank, any tech support company asking for a gift card payment, um you you you know that you're a you're a target, you know, someone's scamming you. Um if you've been told to keep the payment secret.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, hang on. Who is going to say that? What what that's that's what they use to groom people. Yeah. Keep this secret, don't tell your parents. Yeah, yeah. Well uh Is that people they say keep it secret? Do you got in heaven?
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Um if um l let's say someone's being scammed and blackmailed with a um a porn scam, right? We have photographs of you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We want payment to keep it secret, do a gift came.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, the gift card is a gift to the scammers because after after the money's been taken, it's untraceable. Untraceable, go and traceable. And they're gone. So look, no Australian government agency will ever accept a gift card. No bank would ever accept a gift card. Only buy a gift card, you know, in the supermarket and give it to somebody um who deserves it. Or just go and buy a present. Or just go go and buy a present.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So um make something. Well who what have I turned into? Some sort of you know, scout, girl scout. Yeah, girl scout making, going back to the channel.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, make the presents.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Get some Perkins paste and um some straws, little balloons and some buttons. Make Christmas decorations for people.
SPEAKER_02:Little Christmas trees. Yeah, little Christmas trees.
SPEAKER_00:So five scams, same pattern, they exploit time pressure, your emotional investment in Christmas, your brain shortcuts, and the good news we can identify the patterns. You know, we we've got a few rules, don't click on links. You can protect yourself and your families. And look, if you do fall for one of these, don't be embarrassed.
SPEAKER_02:Don't be embarrassed. It's not your fault. Your brain is not on your side.
SPEAKER_00:But don't stay quiet about it, report it.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. We we we the more we report it, the more uh the more able they are to investigate the methodologies that these disgusting people use.
SPEAKER_00:And um and and look, if there was just one rule for for this and probably everything else associated with all the stuff that you've got to get done between now and and Christmas and afterwards, slow down.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:If someone's creating urgency, um, you know, snapping at your heels to move faster, yeah, that's a red flag. It's a red flag. Legitimate businesses don't need to panic you into making decisions.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, exactly, exactly. Um, so yeah, look, um look, by all means, as we said at the beginning of this, we are all vulnerable to this. And being smart, being intelligent is unfortunately not an auto an automatic defense against being scammed. You have to make a gargantuan effort to override the flaws that you know run rampant through our brains. Cognitively, it you have to really be alert. Um, so look, share this episode who's with someone who's doing their Christmas shopping online. You know, forward it to your family group chat because the best offense against scams is knowledge. And as we know, the best way to spread knowledge is to actually spread it. So, everybody from us, we hope you have a safe and scam-free Christmas. So, over the next few weeks, I'm going to be releasing three chapters a week from my first book, The Audiobook of Why Smart Women Make Bad Decisions.
SPEAKER_00:I'm so glad that's a great decision that you've made. The audio book is fantastic.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's got so many of our friends in it, so many brilliant actors in it.
SPEAKER_00:Annie's reading of the story is lovely, but some of the performances from the uh from the actors bringing those characters to life and bringing those dramas to life is really good. So, you know, do yourself a favour and uh and I think you'll enjoy it because it's a narrative, it's a funny story.
SPEAKER_02:The central character um Kat goes through a number of highly relatable um scenarios during the book.
SPEAKER_00:Just like these.
SPEAKER_02:Just like these. And um and at the end of every chapter I have a discussion and the dissemination of the cognitive flaws that have driven her behaviour and the behaviour of the other people in the book. So I look, do listen to it. I think you'll really enjoy it. So that's going to get us into the middle of January. It's been an absolute pleasure seeing the podcast grow this year. We're in countries that I never dreamt um we'd be in. And there are people listening to my voice and the voices of my guests in places like Jamaica and Ukraine and Japan. So it's an awesome thing. And I thank you so much for your continued support of this podcast. So please listen to the audiobook. Thank you very much, David, for coming on and being my marvellous guest.
SPEAKER_00:Speckfiller.
SPEAKER_02:My spec filler. The people apparently quite quite like to listen to us bang on and argue.
SPEAKER_00:Oh really?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know, apparently. Anyway, it's been good to have you. Happy Christmas to you, David.
SPEAKER_00:And to you and to everybody. Peace and joy. That's um my wish for you.
SPEAKER_02:And um happy Christmas, Harrison. Harrison has been producing the podcast with me now for over a year, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Wouldn't happen without Harrison.
SPEAKER_02:Would not happen without Harrison. Oh no. So happy Christmas, Harrison. Happy Christmas, David. Happy Christmas to all our fantastic listeners. And as always, stay safe. Very safe. Stay safe. Stay well. Keep your critical thinking hats on and have a very, very happy Christmas.
