Conversation on Pleasure

Summary:
In this enlightening conversation, Inarra and Edwina explore the multifaceted nature of pleasure, discussing personal experiences, the connection between pleasure and happiness, and the importance of mindfulness in everyday rituals. They delve into the elements of pleasure, the pleasure-pain principle, and the significance of creating a pleasure list to enhance daily life. The dialogue emphasizes the transformative power of pleasure and its deep connection to feminine energy, encouraging listeners to embrace and cultivate joy in their lives.

Takeaways

• Pleasure is a journey that can be explored through conversations.
• Experiences that have soul and story bring deeper pleasure.
• Pleasure can be found in everyday rituals and experiences.
• The elements of nature can enhance our sense of pleasure.
• Happiness is a choice that can be cultivated.
• Mindfulness in daily activities amplifies pleasure.
• Creating a pleasure list helps focus on what brings joy.
• The connection between pleasure and feminine energy is profound.
• Pleasure can disrupt negative thought patterns and worries.
• Embracing pleasure can lead to a more fulfilling life.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Pleasure Conversations
• 1:32 The Essence of Pleasure
• 4:12 Pleasure in Experiences and Locations
• 8:53 Elements of Pleasure: Water, Fire, Air, Earth
• 13:41 The Connection Between Pleasure and Happiness
• 18:42 The Pleasure-Pain Principle
• 22:54 Creating a Pleasure List
• 30:19 Everyday Pleasures and Rituals

Transcript

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (00:01.43)

Well, hello everybody who's been listening to Wise Women's Stories. And today we're slightly changing the tone. And in fact, I'm gonna change my voice to say that we are gonna be doing conversations on pleasure. So none of the hard stuff that we have been talking about. Edwina is here with me. I am back in London.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (00:25.518)

Hello, hello.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (00:28.63)

And she's in Australia. So we continue to meet across the airwaves and both of us were deeply inspired. I mean, I have a reason that I'm immersed in pleasure and I can tell you that later, but there's been conversations that we've been having, which are all about the wisdom of pleasure. And we feel the subject is big enough to take you on a journey with us for many conversations actually. So this is the, this is the opener.

I'll hand you over to Edwina. Do you want to say anything?

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (01:04.706)

Well, having just come back from the most beautiful, indulgent retreat, I feel like the conversation of pleasure and basking in, it was, I want to say the opulence of pleasure, but it was opulence in the most divinely sustainable way. was, you know, everything in the retreat was.

handmade and locally made and ethical and just but the most extraordinary luxury. And it's given me a clear picture of what my idea of pleasure now is. The bar has been raised.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (01:49.42)

Well, do tell what is your, what is your essence of pleasure for you?

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (01:57.87)

I found very clearly, you know, it was actually quite a while ago that, you know, there's sometimes other people see you more clearly than you see yourself. And I remember having this conversation with my gorgeous husband, Laurie. And he said to me, everything that lights you up has to have soul and story. You know, I love antiques and old hotels and things that have, you know, like

I remember visiting London and just having my absolute socks blown off with the difference between Australia, which is only 200 years old versus going to the UK. But I love things with soul and story. this retreat was, it's called Dairy Flats Farm and it's in Victoria in Australia. And it's a working farm.

and they grow all their own vegetables and fruits and orchards and vineyard. They've got the most beautiful wines. They've got a bakery on site. You can go and watch the chefs making, the bakers making these beautiful sourdough croissants and almond croissants and all the pastries. But the absolute love and passion, it's watching artisans at work.

You know, people that have such a passion for the things that they do. And the artwork on the walls is by the man that used to own the place and the alpaca cushions. It's alpaca from, you know, local farms and everything is the most exquisite quality, but you can see the story and soul in everything.

And the pleasure that I get from hearing the story behind the artisans that create the things is next level. It just brings me so much pleasure. So that's given me beyond my everyday picture of pleasure. Very special.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (04:12.498)

it sounds just delicious. And I totally get it. Like old, amazing locations where you've got these, you know, I've run a lot of retreats in my life and there were some that were so outstanding because I did a chateau in France at one point and it really was medieval, but it was so exquisite and it was on a curve in the river.

so that everywhere you went, you would see the river from different sides. It was actually, you know, a bit like a castle. And I felt like I was in another world, you know, stepping into that level. What really stands out for me was the kitchen. It was this huge, medieval, old kitchen, which had just been kept. It had the biggest table ever.

And when I moved to this flat, I remember feeling like I want the essence of that kitchen, that, you know, the Chateau in France, because its essence is steeped into me. It was life-changing, you know, this pleasure of kitchen. When I was looking for a lot of different flats at the time, I would go and stand in them and see what I felt. And when I came into this one,

It was actually quite derelict. They were doing the construction and because I worked at the time in property, they allowed me to go in. It was unshowable to others. And I just walked into this kitchen, which I'm in right now. And I went, like this is the place. And it's so true. Like, you know, I've, I've worked in this kitchen. live, I have conversations in this kitchen and there's a pleasure for me of, you know, the ancient.

meets the modern. All those conversations in that chateau around that big oak wooden table, the indentations on the wood because there were so many people had eaten there over time. That's a deep pleasure for me, that kind of thing. There's a nostalgic piece in there that I really have objects mean something to me. So I'd be a terrible

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (06:33.184)

Zen type minimalist person. I'm not that at all. I'm kind of a maximalist. It means something. mean, it really it's the texture. It's the holding great craftsmanship. And as I was preparing for this conversation, yesterday, I was just allowing myself to ask the question and

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (06:38.764)

No. Yes.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (07:00.99)

The audience, could ask the same question to yourself right now. When you think of memories, which are full of pleasure for you, where are they? What are they? What's the quality of them? Obviously this conversation with Edwina and her retreat she's just done in a, it looks a bit like a stately home to me when I saw the pictures of it. A little bit like a stately home in England. Probably a bit not quite that, because we've got all.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (07:28.194)

Yeah, it was actually it was actually built as a lodge. It was built as a lodge. It was never built as a home. So it's it's been set up like that. But it has that beautiful old world feel to it. And it's quite unique sort of architecture. But fabulous gardens with these towering hedges and garden rooms and it's just so divine. So beautiful. Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (07:29.872)

All of those things.

I wasn't.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (07:45.461)

Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (07:52.832)

So when I hear you speaking about those kind of things, it's taken me on a different journey into pleasure. And I think that this is what happens. There are many pleasures. are many layers of pleasure. It's like a sense that's built up to be the perfect perfume. But when I clear my mind and I go to memories, most of the pleasure I realized is connected to the elements. And I wanted to have a bit of a

deep dive into that. So for me, many of them are water-based. So if you think about earth, air, fire, water, there's so many that I can just go to swimming naked in Crete. I went on a yoga retreat and there was this moment, they had a nudist beach and there was a massive bay. It was quite large that you could actually swim in naked. And I remember this, was ecstatic swimming naked on my own.

across this turquoise water with the glistening, you know, the sparkles of the lights. And I felt like when I bring it up in my mind, I'm like there immediately. It penetrated something. It went so deep. I have now an example of that level of pleasure. And many of them come up around water for me. I can always think of a great fire when I'm sitting around the pleasure of being around fire.

especially ritual for me has been a big thing in my life. And I can think of air with its, know, moments of breathtaking, being on a mountain, looking off and all of that, and earth because I feel very earthy. Thus the nostalgic objects. However, water is next level for me and it stands out. There's so many of them. So you could ask yourself what element are you actually?

experiencing pleasure in what's the main element and that would be your if you were creating yourself as a perfume that would be your top note it would be what comes up all the time it's like if i think i have to go experience some pleasure today what do i do well one of them that's very easy for me is a hot bath you know with crystals in and scents and oils and

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (10:19.786)

the whole thing about relaxing because otherwise it's like a search for something but what's on my doorstep is my bath. So what about you, Edwina?

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (10:32.674)

Well, I mean, I'm very fortunate in so much as we live right, you know, one of the most magnificent beaches probably in the world along the Great Ocean Road here in Australia. It is beautiful. But I will tell you that.

my husband is the water fiend and he will spend an hour a day or more in the water if he can. My calling is actually the mountains, but if we're talking about water, for me, it's snow. And if I can be in the snow, that is absolutely my happy place.

I have done a season of swimming every day in the ocean here, even when it was freezing cold, we'd get up and go for a swim at somewhere between six and seven, depending on what season we were in. And there is something incredibly extraordinary about doing that. And once you started, it was one of those things, you know, when...

cold plunging became very popular and Wim Hof was talking about the benefits of it. And I remember I interviewed people over a few years that were talking about doing it and it was always on my one day list, but with zero appeal. And eventually at one point, a girlfriend of mine talked me into jumping in the ocean with her in the morning. And once I started, it became really addictive because it's an endorphin rush. It makes you really happy.

It's an amazing way to start the day. So I did that for quite a while and I can't think what happened. I do actually, I remember my son needed went through a stage he was doing work experience in the opposite direction. And so I was in the car and dropping him off when I would otherwise be swimming and that the habit got broken. And then it was winter and I didn't start up again. But I, know, there is something incredibly

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (12:47.486)

I mean, the word that just comes into my mind is delicious, you know, but as you walk into the water and it's really cold in the morning, there's this gorgeous cacophony of sound of all the women. It sounds a bit like a hen house.

And everybody, you know, it's the intake of breath and the giggling and you know, there's that side of it. But then once you're in the water, the feeling of that just infuses your whole body is something else. It's really, really magical. It's beautiful. So I do love that. But if I had to choose between the two, I would head to the mountains and...

be in the snow. There is something about being in the mountains and snow that is a deep soul happy place for me without question. That's my place.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (13:41.526)

Well, you can have that all to yourself. I speak to these people in Canada, because I'm half Canadian. And I'm like, most people are trying to escape the cold because it's inevitable. And sometimes it's six months and it's severe. I've been once when it was minus 37. That's the same temperature as like, sort of boiling point on the plus side. And my dad said, if you throw water up, boiling water,

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (13:46.092)

Yup.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (14:11.55)

in that moment, it will turn to snow. And I was like, that's lovely, but get me out of here. was like, all of this, just get me out of here. And I really felt like Canada was not my place, was not my land. And when we, so I came back to England when they emigrated, but I did stay for 12 years. But the winters were absolutely breathtaking to look at.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (14:28.322)

Yep. Yep.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (14:40.956)

and an endurance squad to deal with, you know? So I noticed that in the speaking of pleasure, that often we're talking about a kind of experience which has an overwhelming, and I don't mean in a negative, it sort of takes you over. There's something which possibly disconnects the mind because when anything we've been talking about.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (14:44.578)

Yeah. Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (15:11.04)

there's this feeling that the feeling is more powerful than the thought, than the thinking side. And when you get to the element that really works for you, you are outside yourself. You're back to being a spiritual being in a body rather than the body being the main thing. And, you know, I did have a thought because I've gone on in so many ways around pleasure.

I've worked with the queen of pleasure as an archetype with a lot of my clients because they are the opposite of the queen of pleasure. They're stuck in hyper masculine work. And so I've done a lot of work to, get them in touch with pleasure. But I do think at the highest level, if we all had access to our pleasure, there would be no wars. Like who would go to war if you're in the middle of pleasure? I'm just.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (16:06.018)

Yep. Yep.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (16:07.286)

you know, under a waterfall experiencing pure utter bliss. It's like, I don't think so. Nothing's going to change my mind to go on some mission to do something. So I think it's an incredible disruptor of thinking mind things that we actually endure a lot. It's a reward. It's something which says, Hey, you get to experience the joy of,

life on earth, heaven on earth, that's what pleasure is attached to. It's a very deep thought and it can be made trivialized in society. It's deeply connected to the feminine energetic. So we've got pleasure as the feminine. It's often where you're receiving, you're not doing. You don't have to do to receive pleasure.

The feminine energetic is the thing that's unseen. It's often not given praise because it's like, well, what are you doing? You know, what are you doing? That's the masculine. I'm just sitting under a waterfall. It occurs like you don't have the right to take that time out to do that. You know, it's kind of interesting. Pleasure takes you somewhere else on that journey.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (17:27.03)

Mm. Mm. Yeah. All else fails of, you know, fades into insignificance is sort of a time when you don't think of other things. I don't think you can't experience pleasure and worry at the same time.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (17:44.064)

Yeah, probably not. And I mean, if you ask the question, what would you be doing on the last day on earth? You're if you're in control of that thought, well, nobody's going to choose anything that's unpleasurable, right? It's just a list of all your pleasures, really. there might be a few obligations, like I really need to be with the kids or I really need to whatever. But pleasure is at the top of the list, really.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (17:46.318)

Hmm.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (17:59.714)

Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (18:13.056)

the last day on earth conversation, what would you be doing or experiencing? So I think that pleasure actually as more and more of the feminine energetics are expressed in the world now, because there are a lot of leaders teaching variations on this theme, we will see it regarded as something as potent, potent magic, would say potent energy.

that is worthy of being tapped into rather than trivialized and you're wasting your time. I feel we're entering into that. And you were talking before we came on, we were talking about the pleasure pain principle. So maybe you wanna talk a bit about that.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (18:51.758)

you

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (18:59.662)

Mmm.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (19:03.35)

Yeah, well, you know, the the drivers that motivate us to, you know, for for any decisions that we're making, we're either wanting to move away from pain or towards pleasure. it's it's I did an exercise with my clients at one point in coming up with a list of all the things that bring us

pleasure as a focal point. You we talk about what you focus on expand expands when you're in a place of things feeling hard or worry or anxiety. It's very easy to continue focusing. It's natural to keep focusing on all the things that are creating that. But if you can create a list of things to put your focus on that bring you pleasure or that make you happy and you can introduce more and more of those things.

things into your life. does expand. You have a way of noticing more and more what you already have there that brings you pleasure. And it was a funny exercise because as I was doing it with them, I noticed that it became what was called my F word list. And so my F words, the things that bring me enormous pleasure are fresh flowers,

easy to bring into the house, easy to make happen. Fabulous food, I'm an absolute foodie, fine fashion, fairy lights. So I've got fairy lights front and back in my house that just bring me pleasure every night as it gets dark and they come on. Family, friends, farm life, you know, so this is my F word list, like my pleasure list, the things that make me really happy.

So as the people that listen to this, I really encourage you to do an exercise like that where you don't just think about it, but actually write it down because the more you focus on it, the more you'll start to notice things and it expands and expands and the conscious connection to the absolute pleasure that comes from sliding into a freshly made bed or the feel of

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (21:25.448)

of different textures as you pull them over your skin and get dressed in the morning or the feel of you know I use castor oil which is doesn't sound very sexy but that's the basis of my skincare and the feel of castor oil and your skin is just so soft and thick and yeah I just like all of those things little rituals my coffee every morning they're all things that I'm

really connected to now for the pleasure that they bring my everyday life. And it wasn't until I consciously made that connection that I started to experience them that way. It's amazing how mindless we can become with our everyday activities and rituals. But if you start to connect the pleasure in all of them, it gives your whole day becomes a very different experience.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (22:24.692)

I, it speaks so deeply. yes, I do. And I'll tell you that I may have mentioned this in our conversations before on this podcast, but I had a real epiphany at one point. and the story goes, cause it's quite a nice little story. So I'll just tell you, I was in a Rajasthan in India. First time I went there, I was in my late twenties and I knew nothing about it.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (22:24.854)

Have you got a pleasure list?

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (22:54.666)

Basically, I was told there was a famous shrine, a Brahman shrine on the top of a mountain. And I decided to walk up. So it was sort of 6 a.m. in the morning to go to this shrine. You go up the mountain. And when I saw the shrine, there were some people sort of hanging around, but there was a guy who invites you in. He's like the guardian of the shrine. And he said, just meditate. So I did.

I had this moment of meditation, which is always a deep pleasure for me. And it was like an interruption of the meditation, the spacey, you know, out we go into the universe. Meditation was interrupted with what sounded like almost like a direct voice that said, happiness is a choice. And then there was a little pause as I received that because I didn't know that at the time.

I really didn't know it. thought happiness was something some get some don't some choose some don't it's random, but it was like, so as that went through my system and my energy altered, I felt like I had an alchemical shift and the next part of the conversation or the download came through and you'll never be happy doing nine to five. And it was just like this strong statements.

on a Brahmin shrine. I then went back down the mountain, utterly altered in my perspective of things. And I was working in a film unit at the time. And I did think, God, it's such a grind, that job. So I get down to the bottom of the mountain and at the time there were no mobile phones. But two days later, I called them. I went through a phone.

you know, they had phone shops that you could go in and pay and you'd get on the line and they had given my job away. And so I was furious. It was to somebody that I knew it was like there was a bit of a story behind it, saga. But that's, you know, I just was able to also realize, well, actually the universe gave me exactly what I needed. And yeah, there'll be some things to figure out. But anyway, I roll back.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (25:17.162)

I went to London and I started formulating a happy life and coming up with, what's, if the goal isn't money or luxury or all the things that I'm often asked as a coach, how do I get that? How do I get luxury? How do I get the money? I was like, how do get the happiness? I just wrote down a simple list and I still do this with clients.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (25:41.197)

Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (25:44.628)

of what, and it's very similar to you. It's like, what in a day makes me happy? And this is happiness and pleasure are very tied in because for me, a non-negotiable is my matcha latte. It's non-negotiable. It doesn't mean anything to do with just simply the pleasure of the drink and all the rest of it. It has so many connotations. It's like, that's when I finished a certain stretch of work in the morning. That's when I go out.

because I'm not an indoor bod. It's when I go and get the best match in town. It's when I sip it and the flavor is just, it's just exquisite. And there's a certain thinking that I do at that time, which is a restful thinking that I get some of my best ideas out of. But I came up with all of these different things and I have never digressed. It doesn't matter how much money I have or haven't got.

the simplicity of those rituals during the day. And I really get it, like fabric, my God, it's like the draping of a fantastic, so I cannot stand polyester. It's like anti-pleasure to me. I can feel it in the second they go, they've got new silk now, which is all the new silk, and you just put it on, it's like, this is not silk. This is another nylon.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (26:58.146)

on it.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (27:09.9)

Yeah, it's like wrapping your body in plastic. Why would you wrap your body in plastic? It makes no sense to me at all.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (27:13.696)

It is,

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (27:17.856)

Yeah. So I've lived like that since then. And it's, it's been profound that happiness and pleasure are absolutely part of a dynamic. That's really important. You know, it's not just the push that's masculine. It's the receiving the feel. How good do you feel as you're walking up to do that public speaking announcement? Do you think you'll be better if you feel great? Yes, obviously. You know, yeah.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (27:46.879)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. it is, you know, I mean, we can't think of it as hard work to come up with a list of things that make, you know, that give us pleasure that we can incorporate in our everyday lives. And it doesn't have to be adding in the extraordinary, it's noticing what we've already got. I mean, to stand in a hot shower at the end of the day, particularly, you know, in the middle of winter,

standing in the shower at the end of the day is just such a delight. And one of my greatest pleasures is turning the lights off at night when everything goes dark and the feeling in my body of just that time of shutdown. And I'm a big one for having a really dark bedroom. I don't like any light pollution in my bedroom. And just that complete dark, it's like cocooning and I can feel every cell in my body just goes,

You know, it's just that kind of relax and shut down. that's, you know, like that gives me pleasure. So from the minute you wake up, you think about, you know, the feeling of your feet hitting the floor or the first, you know, the first breaths, or if you're, if you're lying beside somebody when you see them first in the morning, or you can go through all the little bits in your day.

and pick out all the bits of pleasure and really start to notice them and they will amplify. The pleasure that you will get from all of them will grow if you focus on it. And so it doesn't have to be, think, so many of these conversations can center around having to do a whole lot of new things, but I think it's a lovely experience. If you...

we, if we want to come back to the conversation of water, I've got a water filter that sits on my bench top. And so the water is all beautiful, a really filtered mineralized water. And so when I drink a glass of water, it's, it's just an absolute pleasure. I honestly don't drink anything else. I have a coffee in the morning and I might drink herbal tea sometimes during the day, but a glass of water, it's a, it's an absolute pleasure.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (30:08.374)

And these are the things that we get to reconnect to, these really simple things that just make life so much better.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (30:19.978)

Yeah, absolutely. And my list of the happiness was all yoga, matcha, being outside in nature. They're not things that cost money. Well, the matcha does. Actually, the yoga does. But it's affordable and it's like, doesn't matter what level I'm at. It's all part of it. So none of it.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (30:36.674)

Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (30:46.058)

I remember when I wrote it, none of it was like, have to have couture clothes. I love my clothes. I love the feel of them. There was a point when I really made a big decision. I used to be very into underwear in a big way. Like it had to be just fabulous, know, matching everything and underwire bras and all of that kind of thing. Then one day I was experiencing, because I do so much breath work, I was like,

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (30:55.128)

Yeah. Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (31:15.948)

you know, trying to breathe. I thought, these bras, they just cut off. You know, there's a constriction that I'm feeling. And from that point on, that was in my 30s, I said, I'm never gonna do something which is just about the looks. It's got to be about the feel. And I think as I go through life, feel has become more important to me. I do like to look good, but you know, just saying. It's like,

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (31:44.514)

Yeah. Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (31:46.56)

I don't need that whole highly structured, everything is working. You know, I have to go and get it from the best boutique ever to feel the same level of pleasure actually, you know?

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (31:57.954)

Yeah. Yeah. I get I bought this ring, which people can't see if they're only listening to the audio, but I bought a ring as a little as my memento of this beautiful retreat that I just took my clients on and it was it's an antique. came from a secondhand store. Sorry.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (32:15.532)

Hold it up, there's some people. Let's see it, hold it up. Hold it up. it's beautiful. it's amazing.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (32:24.962)

Yeah, it's a smoky quartz, but it's yeah, it came from an antique shop, it's secondhand. And so it just gives me twice as much pleasure. Yeah.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (32:31.9)

Lovely. Yeah. it's fabulous. We will be going on YouTube, so people will see it. No, they will. We're at the point where we're becoming visible. Well, I think that probably rounds up the opening conversation on pleasure. And we will take different aspects of this. We are great conversationalists, Edwina and myself.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (32:38.092)

Yeah.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (32:46.424)

Yep. Yep.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (33:01.088)

There's nothing planned around this. It's not like a structured road to pleasure that you will have to learn, but it will be bringing in different aspects of pleasure so that we can really go into detail with it and really express it and experience it. But for now, you might want to just notice what is the pleasure like right around you as you're listening to this? You might be in a car or you're driving through some beautiful landscape.

Take note of what is the pleasure. What is the pleasure for you? And until we meet again, it's over and out.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (33:38.19)

I think that's perfect. Thank you so much. All right, lots of love. Bye for now.

Inarra  Aryane Griffyn (33:42.967)

It's a pleasure.

Edwina Murphy-Droomer (33:45.408)

Hahaha!