Burlesque Wisdom and Backstage Stories with Fem Appeal

Looking for a cat-themed event? 🐱🎭
Catbaret is NYC’s cat-themed variety show featuring comedy, music, and burlesque – with in-person and virtual shows throughout the year.
Learn more at CatbaretShow.com

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🎭 Connect with Fem on Instagram: @theladyappeal

🔗 Resources & Mentions

• See Fem in action 2/6 - Johnny Caligula’s Twin Peaks–themed birthday burlesque show featuring Fem Appeal
• Kitty Nights – Weekly burlesque and variety show founded and produced by Fem Appeal, mentioned in this New York Times article
• Slipper Room – NYC nightlife and performance venue
• Galapagos Art Space – Former Williamsburg performance space now in Detroit
• Helsinki Burlesque Festival 
• Jo Weldon’s New York School of Burlesque

🐱 Stay Connected:

• Follow Tails and Tassels on Instagram: @tailsandtasselspod
• Follow Catbaret on Instagram: @catbaretshow

Got a question or a story about your cat? 🐱 I’d love to hear from you! Message me on Instagram or email tailsandtasselspod@gmail.com.

Transcript

Hello, hello, kitty cats — and welcome back to Tails and Tassels, the show where you learn about the lives of burlesque and nightlife performers, their cats, their craft, and how those two worlds intertwine.

I’m your host, Gemma Smith. By day, I work in animal welfare, and by night, I host Catbaret, New York City’s cat-themed cabaret.

Today, I’m so excited for you to hear my conversation with Fem Appeal, a longtime presence in the New York City burlesque, nerdlesque, and variety scene. Fem has been performing, producing, and creating for over two decades, and this conversation really felt like sitting down with someone who has made a lot of art — and has so much perspective to share.

In this episode, we talk about how Fem found her way to burlesque, what’s kept her here all these years, and how creating her own weekly show, Kitty Nights, became a space for experimentation, community, and giving other performers their first shot onstage. We get into producing, professionalism, creativity, and what it means to keep evolving as an artist over time.

We also talk about cats — of course — and what they’ve meant in Fem’s life, including a really touching story about her partner’s cat that stayed with me long after we wrapped recording. I just want to say upfront how much I value Fem’s openness and vulnerability in this conversation. She shares so generously, and I’m truly grateful she trusted this podcast with these stories.

So whether you’re a performer, a producer, a creative, or a cat lover — whether you’re just starting out or you’ve been at this for years — we talk about taking creative risks, committing to your ideas, and learning to adapt when things don’t go as planned. There’s a really good story she shares about that, and about why loving what you do — and showing up professionally — really matters.

So settle in, enjoy the conversation, and maybe listen with a cat nearby if you can.
 Here’s my chat with the incredible Fem Appeal.

Enjoy.

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Fem Appeal:

Yay. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. This is really cool, and I can’t wait to share some cat-tastic tidbits.

Gemma Smith:
I can’t wait to hear it. You performed at Meowloween and had such a cat-tastic act, and you’ve been performing in New York City for a really long time. I know we’re going to hear some great stories. To get us started — you’re a beloved and longtime presence in the New York City burlesque, nerdlesque, and variety scene. You bring your love of science fiction, pop culture, and character-driven performance to the stage. What first drew you to burlesque, and what’s kept you here?

Fem Appeal:

Gemma Smith (00:00.046)
at you is kind of the framework but other things will come up or anything that you want to share that comes to mind. Oh yeah.

Fem Appeal (00:06.384)
I'm gonna run and turn a light on because I think we have more light before.

Fem Appeal (00:27.26)
Do do do do do do.

Fem Appeal (00:36.186)
Okay, a little light, a little more light. Okay.

Gemma Smith (00:37.25)
Yeah, that's nice, it lightens.

Gemma Smith (00:44.562)
yeah, and if there's anything I edit these episodes always, give a pass at it. So if you ever say anything that you're like, you know what, I didn't want to bring that up or something, just email me and I'll edit it out. But this isn't a super sensitive situation podcast, but you never know. Some folks are like, wait, I wasn't supposed to share that project yet. So just let me know. And I always edit it to make my guests look the best. want everyone to be happy with the podcast. Yeah. And then on the count of three.

Fem Appeal (01:05.327)
Okay.

Fem Appeal (01:10.34)
Okay. Okay.

Gemma Smith (01:14.36)
We're just gonna both smile and look at the camera so I can use it for like a screenshot. Someone did this on another podcast I was on and I said, that's a good idea. Okay, so one, two, three.

Fem Appeal (01:19.173)
Okay.

Fem Appeal (01:24.688)
Okay.

Gemma Smith (01:29.198)
Nice, I love it. And then before we get into it, do you have any questions?

Fem Appeal (01:36.296)
Uh, no, because you said it's coming out Thursday next week. Um, and you've done 31. I'm number 31. 31 flavors, Baskin Robbins. Yes. Um, yeah, that's it.

Gemma Smith (01:42.465)
Yeah.

Gemma Smith (01:50.38)
Love ice cream. Okay, cool. All right. And then after we chat, I record a little intro to our kitty cat listeners and say, you're gonna love today's episode with Fem. We talked about this, that, that. So you'll hear a nicer intro when you listen to the episode. Okay. All right.

Fem Appeal (02:09.242)
Okay. Okay.

Gemma Smith (02:12.678)
All right, well, let's get into today's episode, kitty cats. I'm so excited for you to hear my chat with Fem. Fem, yay, thank you for being here.

Fem Appeal (02:23.536)
Yay!

Fem Appeal (02:27.42)
Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. This is really cool and I can't wait to share some cat-tastic, you know, tidbits.

Gemma Smith (02:39.67)
I can't wait to hear it. I mean, you performed at Meowloween and you had a cat-tastic act. And you've themed performing here in New York City a really long time, so I know I'm gonna hear some really good stories. So yeah, to get us started, you're a beloved and longstanding presence in the New York City neoburlesque scene.

Fem Appeal (02:53.97)
Yes.

Gemma Smith (03:02.388)
You bring your love of science fiction, pop culture, and character-driven performance to the stage. So what first drew you to burlesque? And what's kept you here?

Fem Appeal (03:08.347)
Yes.

Fem Appeal (03:11.816)
Wow, okay. I know what's kept me here and I might start with that. Actually, I will. I have a very intense day job. When I got into Burlesque, I had just themed laid off from a corporate gig and so I had...

Gemma Smith (03:22.008)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (03:34.376)
two years of fun employment. I had a lovely severance package. I had a 401k that I dipped into and shouldn't have. But I was doing well. And I just feel like because I work with adults with special needs, intellectual and developmental disabilities, it's a very intense job. And I have less to look for.

It's not after a hard day's work I need to get on stage, but I'm glad I have a creative outlet. And what's keeping me is I don't have anything that I love that I'm as passionate about currently other than burlesque, so I can't just leave burlesque and not have a creative outlet. Like, I've themed looking at other people who are like, I'm a burlesque performer, and then I discover

I baking. I'm a burlesque performer and now I knit and crochet. I'm a burlesque performer and I also do these and I'm like, I'm a burlesque performer and I'm doing it because all the other things that I loved, this is the combination of all of that. So I really did want to be an actress, legit theater, film, all of that. And I tried. And I kept being taught

Gemma Smith (05:01.112)
Mm-hmm.

Fem Appeal (05:04.132)
told

Yeah, we're gonna go with someone else or You're great, but this isn't the right part for you or Yeah, you're great. You're gonna be the sassy neighbor. You're gonna be the the you know the side and and they don't say it that way, but it's what it was and I Don't have the heart for rejection So it was a hard path and then after trying

Gemma Smith (05:19.256)
Hmm.

Fem Appeal (05:36.228)
to act, I said, let me try stand-up comedy. I did stand-up comedy for two months, which meant I went to all the open mics, I won a few, and I enjoyed it. But there were times where I'm telling a joke that, you know, went really well, but crickets. And I didn't understand, like, but if it's funny, it's funny all the time.

And no, it depends on the audience sometimes. It depends on what's going on in the world or maybe delivery. So anyway, I tried stand-up comedy for two months. I was very funny, but it wasn't for me. I also like to say I had a good childhood, so maybe comedy is...

Gemma Smith (06:26.318)
I got it.

Fem Appeal (06:30.184)
But what brought me to burlesque is I kept seeing it everywhere. I'd go on vacation with my parents and let's say we're in the Bahamas and they only had three channels. One of the channels played a burlesque movie or one of the channels played the burlesque documentary. What was it called? What's her name?

Gemma Smith (06:57.447)
documentary. We can edit it.

Fem Appeal (06:59.912)
I think I wrote it anyway. I kept seeing burlesque everywhere. And then I was going through a divorce.

Gemma Smith (07:09.388)
mm-hmm.

Fem Appeal (07:09.538)
And I was living in the East Village and I belonged to this society called the fucking cool women's society. And we would meet monthly, like brunch it up, usually in someone's home. So we could, you know, just be there for an amount of time, feel safe, feel, you know, comfortable. But we would do this thing. And when I was talking about like, I don't think I want to be married anymore.

Gemma Smith (07:17.62)
That's awesome.

Gemma Smith (07:22.508)
Yes.

Gemma Smith (07:32.398)
That's cool.

Fem Appeal (07:39.354)
one of the heads of the fucking cool women's society said, let's go take a fun class. Let's go do something. It was the summer and we found in the back of the village voice a burlesque workshop given by Joe Weldon and it was in a Pilate studio. So we did that and I think I was the only person who enjoyed myself and said, I want more.

Gemma Smith (07:39.874)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (07:56.739)
Yeah.

Gemma Smith (08:09.315)
You're like, this is for me. Yes, please.

Fem Appeal (08:10.938)
Yeah, and after that, I just started going to all the burlesque shows. Like, I lived in the East Village, so I had Starshine, I had Sweet and Nasty, I had whatever was happening at the Slipper Room, which was every night of the week, usually. I went to all the little, Niagara had a show. There were so many places you could go and just see a burlesque show.

Gemma Smith (08:38.67)
And in what time, what time period was this? Like 2005?

Fem Appeal (08:41.032)
Oh, I started in 2005. But my very first time on stage was the Miss Galapagosanga.

Gemma Smith (08:44.366)
Cool.

Fem Appeal (08:52.924)
burlesque competition. And that used to take place at Galapagos Art Space in Williamsburg. It's no longer there. And Murray Hill was the emcee. So the premise of Miss Galapagos Zanga was you do two acts and at the end of the show, the audience decides the winner. I had brought five people and I won September 2nd.

Gemma Smith (08:54.946)
Hey.

Gemma Smith (09:03.775)
Mm-hmm. Awesome.

Gemma Smith (09:15.275)
Okay.

Fem Appeal (09:22.6)
2005.

And I did two acts. The first act was a tribute to my namesake Emma Peel from the Avengers. And the second act was my janitor. So my janitor is my oldest act that I still do. And I love my janitor act because it's kind of ridiculous. It's a drag act. So I get to wear facial hair. But I'm really just being goofy on stage.

Gemma Smith (09:24.728)
thing.

Fem Appeal (09:54.474)
dedicated the janitor act to my actual janitor for my high school. And he was a great guy. I don't remember his name, but it was so funny because he was the nicest man in the world. But us kids, because we were teenagers, were like, wonder what he's doing in that basement. Creepy man looking at us, smiling at us. What if he mops up?

Gemma Smith (10:14.188)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (10:24.575)
and then goes in his basement and starts jerking off.

Gemma Smith (10:28.846)
And so that was your act like what he does when he goes

Fem Appeal (10:31.336)
But, right, but he was the sweetest man and he never did anything wrong. But I like to, the whole story in my mind is he's in love with his mop, he's lonely, he wants a better job, but this is what he has. So he makes do and he gets a little freaky with his mop.

Gemma Smith (10:37.559)
Yes.

Gemma Smith (10:55.717)
He needs to do what he needs to do in his free time to be happy. I get it. You said a lot of things that I feel like really resonate and kind of are some similarities to a lot of other performers on the show is, and for our listeners interested in burlesque and maybe not performing, yes, a lot of us all have day jobs. You know, all different types of day jobs, corporate, like you, teachers.

Fem Appeal (10:58.045)
Right.

Fem Appeal (11:14.662)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (11:19.368)
You know what's interesting about that? I think there was some sort of like discourse and dialogue about who's a real performer. And I never appreciated the fact that like, okay, this isn't what I do to earn all of my money.

Gemma Smith (11:30.158)
Hmm.

Fem Appeal (11:40.22)
This isn't how I pay my rent, but I give my all, I commit, I'm a professional, and I think I show up and do a kick-ass job. So I didn't appreciate like, I'm lesser a performer because this isn't what, and here's what I say about that. There are a lot of performers who have, they have to earn their living performing.

So you might see them at a gig and then they don't stay for the curtain call because they have to make it to another gig. And I respect all of that. I actually knew someone who had three gigs in one night and

you know, made it work, but it was like, yeah, I'm here at 8 p.m., then I have a thing at 11, and then I'm doing a late night show. That's all great, but that wasn't my life. And I just think it's, you do people a disservice when you discredit their art, because it doesn't look the same as your art, you know?

Gemma Smith (12:37.774)
Hmm.

Gemma Smith (12:48.334)
I 100 % agree because it's all about what you put into it and you can take art seriously whether it's your full-time job or it's a side part-time job. I feel the exact same way so that resonates and also I also moved to New York City to be an actor and I didn't move here till 2012 so I didn't get to see I didn't discover burlesque till like 2018 so I never got to see like Kitty Nights or a lot of the shows that you mentioned but

Fem Appeal (12:57.362)
Correct.

Fem Appeal (13:09.864)
okay, okay.

Gemma Smith (13:16.398)
I also found it more fulfilling to create my own work. I started creating Catbaret and then discovered burlesque and I was just more fulfilled in not needing to ask permission to perform and yeah, I got rejected a ton, ton, a ton. It just wasn't for me. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't for me. But that's okay. I think I'm happier now. Well, maybe I would have themed happy if I booked like a lot of commercials, but it's still fine.

Fem Appeal (13:29.512)
Really? Okay, okay.

Fem Appeal (13:38.276)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (13:43.272)
I also feel because I've themed doing it since 2005, I see similarities in like I'm Gen X and I grew up before the internet and all that other stuff and what we have today is social media and that wasn't around really when I was performing so I don't have a lot of documentation of acts that I used to do because we weren't doing that.

You know? And so my thing today is just because you never heard of me or saw me doesn't mean I don't exist. You know what I mean? And it's like, there are a lot of people who are like, from 2015 to now, they have this idea that, and this has happened a lot, like every generation is like, not we invented it, but we're doing something different and crazy and wild.

Gemma Smith (14:19.552)
Yeah, a hundred percent.

Fem Appeal (14:39.334)
And the only thing that I appreciate is I started out and it was a DIY thing, right? It wasn't about rhinestones. It wasn't about how sparkly your costumes were. And you certainly didn't spend a lot on your costumes, right? And now it's funny because

I ended up going to, I was invited to do the Helsinki Burlesque Festival in 2017. And that's when I decided, Operation Upgrade. And what that meant is, can you make this costume for me that looks amazing on stage? Because what I currently use is great for these stages, but not an international Burlesque Festival. So I did Operation Upgrade.

and I went to Helsinki and it was the most incredible experience ever. And I went there because I was in a show with Betty Blackheart at, I think it was Johnny Pork Pie's Dead Sexy at Times Scare. And Betty Blackheart and I were in a show together. And we had done the show and after the show, Betty was like, I'm gonna send you an email.

And I remember being like, okay, okay. And then I got an email and it was like, I want to invite you to come to, I think it was the 10th annual Helsinki Verles Festival. And it wasn't an explanation of I saw you, I think you're great, but it was just, I want to invite you. I think this would be a fantastic opportunity. here's, and everything was paid for.

And I was put up in a hotel and I made amazing money and I was in Finland. Also, by the way, the top 10 countries that people love and are doing well in are the Scandinavian country. And you know why? They have everything they need. They have universal healthcare. They're safe.

Gemma Smith (16:40.846)
That is such-

Gemma Smith (16:45.239)
Uh-huh.

Gemma Smith (16:53.314)
Yes, yes. Well, yeah.

Fem Appeal (17:00.964)
Their education system is fantastic. It's top notch. And another thing I heard about Finland. Finland is all about everybody gets the same education no matter what your income is. So if you're super wealthy or you're poor, you know, you're getting the same quality education. If you decide you want to do something else once you like, you know, graduate high school.

and go to university or whatever, do what you want. But everything else was free and the best education possible, you know?

Gemma Smith (17:37.71)
Finland's themed on my list to visit. It might be on my list to move if I have to retire too. Let's dream, retire. Yes.

Fem Appeal (17:40.57)
my gosh.

Yeah, yeah. They are lovely people. And when I arrived, mean, Pearl Noir was there as well. But I looked around and I saw different people. There weren't a lot of different people, but I never felt like I was other and being looked at or stared at or anything. Like, it felt warm. It felt inviting. And I would go back in a heartbeat.

Gemma Smith (18:12.54)
And what act did you perform?

Fem Appeal (18:14.48)
I did too. There were two nights of the show, so I did Storm. I have a Storm app. I, no, it's retired. I had two versions of Storm. I had the black and gold that everybody remembers where she's wearing. it kind of looks like fetish wear. It looks like S bondage type stuff. But anyway, Storm.

Gemma Smith (18:20.994)
have to, I can't wait to see it. okay, got it.

Gemma Smith (18:39.105)
Okay.

Fem Appeal (18:43.142)
You can look it up, the black and gold. So I did that act and I used to love doing that act. But the one I brought to Finland was another version of Storm where she was, I don't know what era it was, but she wore a skirt and like a top with the logo on it and it was really cool and fun. And then the other act I did was my Demon Act. And it's just called My Demon Act.

and it's based off of legend played by Tim Curry. That devil is one of the scariest ever. So all I wanted to do was find a mask that looked like that. And I found it and it was my act and I still do it. So that's what I did. Yeah.

Gemma Smith (19:19.256)
Okay.

Gemma Smith (19:32.93)
Love it. And so that was 2017. Now you started Kitty Nights for folks that don't know. Okay, and was a long running weekly burlesque show. I did some research and Time Out New York said it's a show that purred along for years and it spotlighted all the burlesque stars in New York. Can you break down like how you produced this show? How'd you start it? Yeah, tell us about it.

Fem Appeal (19:36.21)
Yes, in 2006.

Yes.

Fem Appeal (19:48.282)
Yes.

Fem Appeal (19:55.716)
Okay, so I lived in the East Village, as I said, and bar on A, aka Boa, the owner was a snake enthusiast and had snakes. So the logo was Boa, as in a snake. But B-O-A also stood for Bob.

on Anne and Anne was his wife and we called it Bar on A or BOA. So that was my local watering hole and what do I mean by that? Two blocks away from where I lived or a block and a half and I it was a place I could go and have like a glass of wine or whatever and hang out and not be afraid to be a woman alone in a bar.

and then I would go back and I would hang out there quite often and have conversations with almost everyone and the owner said, hey kid, he had white hair, white long hair and he was an older gentleman but he was like, hey kid, you do show, you perform, you do stuff, can you do something here? And I was like, okay. And that was our first.

show was July 2nd, 2006. Now here's the thing, it was a weekly show, it was every Sunday at 9 o'clock and 9 o'clock and we were done at 10. Yeah.

Gemma Smith (21:26.776)
love that. As a performer, that's nice.

Fem Appeal (21:30.972)
but it was a free show than a $5 show.

And I always cross promoted other shows that I knew about that started later. But it was a different time because there weren't a lot of shows every single night of the week. Like Starshine was always on a Thursday. Sweet and Nasty was always on a Sunday, but it was at 10. So you could do my show and Sweet and Nasty. And there were other shows that happened during the week, but I didn't know what I was doing. I just knew.

Gemma Smith (21:48.503)
Okay.

Fem Appeal (22:05.904)
Okay, I've themed asked to put a show together and I know some people from the classes that I took and you know going to other shows and then I put out an ad on Craigslist looking for performers and huh.

Gemma Smith (22:20.878)
I do remember Craigslist days, I'm an old elder millennial, but I didn't move here for a while after college, but you would find auditions for things on Craigslist. I remember, yeah. So you put an ad out on Craigslist. There wasn't the Facebook group, I guess, that there is now. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (22:28.656)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (22:35.464)
No, no. But, and for me, we had Myspace and Friendster. But, Friendster was crap. But, Myspace before Facebook. But anyway,

Gemma Smith (22:41.41)
I had my space too, back in the day.

Yeah.

Fem Appeal (22:52.388)
I was a new performer, so I booked other new performers. And then on occasion, I would invite seasoned performers. And I would send out a lovely email. I admire you. I admire your work. I would love you to perform at Kitty Nights. And most people said yes. Now, my great story that I tell over and over is the Maine Attraction

Gemma Smith (23:20.686)
I've seen... I've seen the movie.

Fem Appeal (23:21.96)
you

The Maine Attraction is somebody that I can't believe in 2026 were friends because when I knew them, I was just a young, you know, I don't mean I was young, but I was a newer performer and I loved everything that the Maine Attraction did. So when I felt comfortable enough, I invited the Maine Attraction to perform and I sent an email.

and I detailed everything like, call time is this. And you know, you get, and I said, I can offer you $50 and a split of the door. And I got an email back that said, I don't usually work for that amount of money. I have a higher rate, but I've heard really good things about you and your show, so I'm gonna do it.

and the Maine Attraction performed and that night she got more than her rate because we did well and I'm a generous person I think and so the other thing about putting this show together I always made sure everyone got paid even if that meant going to the ATM and I did a lot for a while.

And once we switched over to $5, things got a little better. And then we hit a stride because people started hearing about this new show that's primarily for new people. Because think about the other way shows happen. When you're new, coming into an established show, they either want you to kitten forever or to audition. How dare you?

Fem Appeal (25:18.504)
I have a problem with auditioning for burlesque.

Gemma Smith (25:22.976)
Yeah, tell me about that. haven't thankfully no one's I don't perform all the time, but I've never had to yeah

Fem Appeal (25:25.786)
I've never had to do it, but there were audition slots at other shows. And it was, you're new, I don't know you, I've never seen you, so audition. But when you audition, you don't get paid.

Gemma Smith (25:31.214)
Okay.

Gemma Smith (25:37.794)
Mmm, prove yourself. Yeah.

Mmm, and that's a lot. You're performing a whole act, I'm guessing, with the full costume, probably makeup, it's your time. Different than just submitting like a video of a past performance or something.

Fem Appeal (25:49.02)
Yes.

Fem Appeal (25:53.638)
Right, so I just, I didn't believe in that and I had a kitten. The kittens came and went. Sometimes I decided they were no longer kittens and they should perform.

Gemma Smith (25:57.28)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (26:07.868)
because I saw that and why keep somebody in a job that they're aching to break out of. But I enjoyed, like people tell me today and I like to be humble and go, I've themed introduced to other people as, this is Fem she gave me my first break in New York. this is Fem she was one of the first stages I performed, you know, and that.

Gemma Smith (26:16.354)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (26:35.329)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (26:36.334)
is lovely but back then I wasn't thinking like I'm giving you a shot kid I was just like okay show up and do it and if you're great I'll keep and and my thing is you you get into a habit of I really like these performers they're very very talented but you can't have them every single week so there was I you know I had my stable

Gemma Smith (26:41.326)
Yeah, yeah.

Fem Appeal (27:04.994)
of, I shouldn't say stable, that makes them sound like they're horses. But I had people, yes, regular, regular people, Gal Friday was a regular guest, Weirdie Girl, Stormy Leather, a lot of cool people. And because I wasn't, I didn't think I was host material back then, and I didn't want yet another job because I did everything.

Gemma Smith (27:08.494)
People you brought back, yeah.

Gemma Smith (27:22.658)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (27:34.015)
yes.

Fem Appeal (27:34.584)
I did the sound, I did all of that stuff, and I'm like, I can't also host. So I would invite people to host, and the only thing that... I would get disappointed if it was the type of host that was like, and the next performer is, and in the back of my mind, I could have done that.

Gemma Smith (27:37.419)
Gemma Smith (28:02.172)
huh.

Fem Appeal (28:02.34)
I hired you to do something different. So there were people I hired all the time, like Shelley Watson, singing. Yes. I loved Adam, the first real man from Coney Island, because he did sideshow and fun stuff. Albert Cadabra was a host all the time. There, who else? Juliet Jeske, when she was Princess Sunshine or Contessa Mocha.

Gemma Smith (28:08.46)
Yes, I've seen her before she moved away.

Gemma Smith (28:21.613)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (28:32.306)
There were a lot of people I hired back, Shaefer the Dark Lord, Nelson Lugo. There were a bunch of people who regularly hosted Kiddy Nights. And then sometimes I would bring up people who are like, try it, just try it. If you're like, I think you're funny. I feel like it was a special time where because it was an hour show and it was only $5.

I didn't feel this need to curate something that was, oh my gosh, if people get upset, they're going to demand their money back. No, they're not. You know what I mean? So it was a low key DIY just fun hour, you know?

Gemma Smith (29:10.486)
Hmm. Yeah, no.

Gemma Smith (29:17.123)
And it sounds like you created a real community there too. Like you said, like you were new. I feel like anyone listening and wants to produce a show, maybe they haven't yet. It's a lot of good lessons here of inviting other folks who maybe are also new, giving them a shot, creating a community and then leading with like admiration, like a kind email stating why you're emailing this person, like why you're reaching out to them to perform. That goes a long way.

Fem Appeal (29:35.953)
Right.

Fem Appeal (29:43.695)
Right, right.

Gemma Smith (29:44.384)
And it sounds like maybe there were audience members that came back each week and you had a real like community between, yeah.

Fem Appeal (29:48.312)
Absolutely, absolutely. But that brings me to what I did to, because it was a weekly show, I came up with new acts. More often than not, because I didn't want people to see the same act I just saw. Like if you're going to come every week, most of the time I had a different act or

Gemma Smith (30:01.922)
Yeah, there you go.

Gemma Smith (30:09.954)
Mm-hmm.

Fem Appeal (30:14.468)
and not all of them were good. What I should say is I'm proud of the fact that I put stuff on stage just to see if it worked. And sometimes it didn't, and sometimes I'm like, this is my new favorite act. So a lot of what I drew from were I loved Halloween and I used to...

Gemma Smith (30:17.976)
Yeah.

Gemma Smith (30:26.978)
That's awesome. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (30:40.296)
go to the parade every year, the New York City Halloween parade. And for the longest time, I was Jimi Hendrix. I was Jimi Hendrix three or four years in a row. And then Jimi Hendrix became a burlesque act. And I love that act so much because it was Femmes drinking days.

Gemma Smith (30:54.574)
you

Gemma Smith (31:01.304)
Okay.

Fem Appeal (31:01.914)
and it was back before you fire codes and special permissions. I had a toy guitar that I poured a shit ton of lighter fluid on and then I lit it up and played that guitar flames and all. It was unsafe, but it was awesome!

Gemma Smith (31:20.59)
Damn. Wow. How did you do? Yeah. And the flames didn't get you? Like, I don't know a ton about fire stuff.

Fem Appeal (31:32.424)
I mean, I was good about my setup of if something gets, I had a wet rag ready to go, but like, I did that on my stage and also the old slipper room stage. And nobody batted an eye like, I, right. And then I stopped doing it because fire codes and I'm not trained and everyone's like, yeah, you're not doing that at this show.

Gemma Smith (31:35.191)
Okay.

Gemma Smith (31:50.392)
But they loved it.

Gemma Smith (32:01.718)
I love though, yeah, and you having your own, like creating your own show gives you a space every week where you get to perform and you get to experiment. And that's really impressive to come up with a new act and experiment every week. Like I think sometimes people work better, I know I do, with a deadline. Like if I know I'm gonna be in a show or I did books in burlesque and they ask you to create an act for that, and I really liked having that deadline of I have to have an act for this show, but every week you had a deadline.

Fem Appeal (32:02.022)
But I loved it.

Fem Appeal (32:07.686)
Yes, yes.

Fem Appeal (32:14.396)
Right, right.

Fem Appeal (32:29.518)
Right, right, yeah.

Gemma Smith (32:31.374)
And kind of merging it with cats a little bit, were there any memorable cat-themed acts or cat performers?

Fem Appeal (32:37.384)
You know, okay, so here's a funny thing. It was called Kitty Nights. And I think people thought they had to bring a cat themed act to Kitty Nights. And they did. And a lot of people did. I was the only person who didn't have a cat themed act. And so...

Gemma Smith (32:42.658)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (32:49.41)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (32:57.198)
Mm-hmm.

Fem Appeal (32:58.66)
I had to create one. And what I created, I'm going to say all of this stuff I have learned. It is not.

how i want to present okay so i i have themed show as i i did you themed shows that were themed other than just how it is so we had a sports night we had a movie night we had so many different you know tv shows whatever it was there were different themes and i'm not remembering all of them so when i decided to do

Gemma Smith (33:19.79)
Mm-hmm.

Fem Appeal (33:38.928)
cat themed night at Kitty Nights, I came up with Welcome to the Litter Box. And how we did this this show is I said we're gonna have a cat adoption Sunday night.

Kitty Nights litter box. So all the cats went on stage in their outfits, in their costumes, and the audience had to go adopt a cat.

Gemma Smith (34:09.376)
obsessed, you know I work in animal welfare so I'm obsessed with this idea.

Fem Appeal (34:12.888)
So they would adopt a performer wearing a cat and then I was the last one left on stage because I wasn't adopted. Why? Because I was fucked up.

Gemma Smith (34:25.696)
on purpose.

Fem Appeal (34:28.538)
I was the cat that nobody wants. I had a broken tail, a broken ear. I had fleas because I did all of that. I was a fucked up cat. And it was like, I did my, remember it was a very sad tale of.

Gemma Smith (34:30.926)
Gemma Smith (34:41.966)
Fem Appeal (34:51.712)
poor kitty, what's wrong? no, I had a hairball that I threw up that was made with like felt and glitter. And I would like do this thing where it wasn't in my mouth, it was in my sleeve. And then I would go, yeah, And I made the noises on stage loud enough so you would hear it over the music. And then I would, all of these things happen.

Gemma Smith (34:55.95)
Yes!

Gemma Smith (35:05.39)
Okay.

Gemma Smith (35:13.144)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (35:19.772)
But the worst part is it was a fucked up cat that nobody was gonna adopt, so it was gonna be euthanized. And I get euthanized on stage. holds up a giant fish, and I'm looking at the fish because I want the fish. It's a giant fish, I must have it. And then I get a needle in the neck.

Gemma Smith (35:27.055)
gosh, it gets dark.

Gemma Smith (35:40.931)
you

Gosh, I might have cried if I saw this, but I'm sure you made it humorous as well.

Fem Appeal (35:47.266)
So that was that act and I called it ASPCA cat.

Gemma Smith (35:53.521)
no, we, I promise at the ASPCA we don't, we don't eat the nuts. Yes, yes.

Fem Appeal (35:57.656)
I know, I know, but that was what I gave that act. And I did it a few times and I did it at a show called So Wrong, It's Right at the Bowery Poetry Club. And then I also started hearing feedback of like, know, people really love cats and that's a really, you're comedic genius, I love you. But yeah, that act. So I retired it.

Gemma Smith (36:07.885)
there you go.

Gemma Smith (36:26.998)
And you have another cat act that you recently performed that was a hit at Catbaret Meowloween And can you tell us about that act and also tell us about you wear masks a lot. I feel like this is a good question. And so you have to be so aware of your physicality. And so this ask act, you're wearing a cat mask. So maybe share a bit about this act and also how you.

Fem Appeal (36:29.192)
Yes!

Fem Appeal (36:38.628)
I do, I do.

Gemma Smith (36:50.666)
have created or are so mindful of your physicality without relying on facial expressions, which a lot of us, you know, really do rely on that in burlesque.

Fem Appeal (36:58.488)
So you're giving me credit for knowing about my physicality and what it really is. I love wearing a mask because it frees up my face. I get into this thing where all I do is make faces while I'm performing. And sometimes it's one of those involuntary things where I should say, like I have Abraham Lincoln and the

The reason that act works is I have to be stoic. I can't really make a face because I'm being Abraham Lincoln. He wasn't known for being, you know, Mr. Hilarious and funny and all that. So when I'm doing that act, it's me being like, don't make a face and wearing a mask. I'm not worried about what I look like. If I'm, if somebody's looking at me back and now I'm uncomfortable.

So I just enjoyed wearing a mask because it's part of what I'm giving to the audience. It's not that you've never seen a person in a mask, but I'm not taking it off. It stays on the whole time. And you have to deal with it. And then some people are like, it's so creepy because I don't know where you're looking or was she staring at me? But the cat act that I came up with was I

bought this cat mask and I still wanted to do a cat act, but let's just make it fun. And I just called him Tomcat out on the prowl. He's at a club, he's at a bar. And have you seen the commercials with the cats? I don't know if it's Meowmix, but the cats are like people and they're just hanging out and there's a cat that's dancing at a club. I came up with that before the cat is dancing in the club.

Gemma Smith (38:43.628)
Yes, yes. Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Fem Appeal (38:53.468)
But it's like, my gosh, yes. What would you do if you were at a club and a cat came up to you just, hey. So I love doing that act. And because you had booked me for specifically Catbaret Meowlloween, I thought, what does everyone do with their pets during Halloween? They dress them up in Halloween costumes. So I combined my blade act

Gemma Smith (38:55.938)
Yeah. Yes.

Gemma Smith (39:18.018)
Yes!

Fem Appeal (39:23.314)
with my cat act just for your show. Cause other, yeah.

Gemma Smith (39:23.394)
Yes. Yes. I love that. And I should have prefaced it when I intro'd you. But you did tell me you were gonna be blade. Folks can get it. They see that you have the sword on your back. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (39:30.738)
That's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the only thing I didn't bring my sword because it's a real sword and it would have been a lot. So I didn't do that. But I, I just love, you know, I, the song Harlem Shake was one of those viral things, I guess, TikTok or before TikTok, where people would just record themselves going nuts to the song. And I'm

Gemma Smith (39:41.91)
mm-hmm. I'm close my.

Gemma Smith (40:02.38)
I recall.

Fem Appeal (40:03.664)
And I'm like, it's not a long song, but it feels like a long song because it's very repetitive. But I love doing it. I love doing it. It's a lot of fun.

Gemma Smith (40:09.889)
Mm-hmm.

I love your movements. We'll be sharing some clips for our listeners to see on Instagram too. And kind of, okay, we talked a lot about your craft, which I love hearing. I might ask more questions in a moment, but I wanna ask a little more just about your relationship with cats in general. Yeah, like have cats been part of your life? Yeah.

Fem Appeal (40:17.48)
Okay.

Fem Appeal (40:28.581)
Okay.

Fem Appeal (40:32.29)
yes. they have and the last, so my, my dad recently passed away and actually the week of your show. So thank you. I had a distraction. I had three shows that week.

Gemma Smith (40:49.987)
I'm so sorry, Fem

Fem Appeal (40:58.172)
He died on a Sunday. I had a show, I think, Wednesday, and then...

Thursday and then your show, which was Halloween proper Friday night, I believe. Yeah. And I was so grateful because I needed a distraction and I love Halloween. And my thing is forever and ever, amen. Am I going to have a different relationship to Halloween? Sure. But I'm still going to love it. But I loved being there and just.

Gemma Smith (41:10.295)
Yeah, yeah.

Fem Appeal (41:32.87)
You know, when you show up for a gig, whatever is going on with you, the minute you're on stage, it's gone, right? And you just perform and you do your best. And I wasn't backstage boohooing or telling people, my dad, boo boo boo. We were just all talking about each other's art and how excited we were. And I love a variety show. That's the other thing about Kitty Nights. Toward the end of run

of Kitty Nights, was more variety because

I was getting bored with just burlesque, burlesque, burlesque. And not because I don't like it, but I see the value in a variety show. Like, here's a comedian, here's a storyteller, here's a sideshow person, here's a person who does magic. So all of that is super cool, but I really loved doing that show. I'd themed on that stage before with other shows, but it was nice to spend Halloween with.

with all the cats. Thank you. Ooh, okay.

Gemma Smith (42:37.998)
Well, was an absolute pleasure to have you and I knew I had to have you close out the show. It was our finale. It was fantastic. I recall I was so worried because the performer before you had spilled a little cat litter, but I didn't want to make him feel bad at all. But you were perfect because you had boots on and I always, you know, you always as a producer wants your cast to feel safe. So I'm so sorry you were going through that. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (42:51.262)
no. no.

Fem Appeal (43:00.164)
Of course, of course. But I loved every single, and you didn't know, but I can tell you now. So it meant a lot to me that I had a place to be on Halloween, one of my favorite, you know, holidays. But also, like, I, for a few hours, I wasn't thinking about my sadness and my grief. Yeah.

Gemma Smith (43:23.446)
Yeah, yeah, I can see how when grieving distraction, really, really helps. And was your father a cat person or your family or growing up?

Fem Appeal (43:31.36)
so relationship to cats is why I brought it up. My dad's severely allergic, so I could never have a cat. But we had cats, and we had a cat for a little while, Tinkerbell, but we couldn't keep her in the house because he was just really, really allergic. And when he passed, the first thing I thought was, I can get a cat now. And then I didn't.

Gemma Smith (43:41.358)
Mm-hmm.

Fem Appeal (43:59.88)
because it felt like it didn't feel like I was, it's not that I have to like honor his memory and never have a cat, but it just seemed like too soon to just bring an animal in there because I could. But I grew up with cats. My first cat was Daybreak. He was a Russian blue cat, beautiful. And...

Gemma Smith (44:11.554)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (44:23.534)
They are beautiful.

Fem Appeal (44:26.94)
He got sick, he died when I was 20, and I was devastated. And I didn't get another cat for a while. And then at one point in the late 90s, I moved in with a roommate and we got a cat and it turned out to be a pregnant cat. And I was at, I think I was working or I was at Hunter College when it happened, but my roommate like,

called me and said, we have cats, we have cats. And I watched everyone. And she was there to see eight cats come out of this mama cat. And we kept one of them. And his name became Ashtray. And Ashtray loved hanging out.

Gemma Smith (45:08.978)
eight. Wow. Nice.

Gemma Smith (45:15.925)
Okay

Fem Appeal (45:20.048)
in an ashtray. He would steal her cigarette butts because she was a smoker, but he also stole my jewelry. I'd be in my bed and I would hear, bink, bink, bink, bink, on the dresser and it was ashtray. I never found, even when we moved, I never found rings, earrings, the things he stole. Yeah. But he would just put it in his mouth and run off.

Gemma Smith (45:23.438)
Yeah.

Gemma Smith (45:40.824)
So mischievous. And those are like the things you really don't want your jewelry stolen. And believe it or not.

I'm glad you didn't eat it, eat any of them.

Fem Appeal (45:51.116)
No, he didn't. But so there was Daybreak, Ashtray, and then I briefly had a cat named Benatar. Benatar after Pat. And I just always love cats, but my big thing is, even if I don't have a cat, I appreciate going to someone's home who does have a cat.

Gemma Smith (46:14.786)
nice.

Fem Appeal (46:16.122)
And I also judge men by if they like cats or not. I have never dated a person who didn't like cats. Because to me, that says something. And yeah.

Gemma Smith (46:21.738)
I agree.

Gemma Smith (46:29.036)
Yeah, do you think it, I feel similarly to you, but I'm curious, what do you think it says if they don't like cats?

Fem Appeal (46:35.848)
that I don't want to say you're not a good person, but you're not patient and you're maybe rigid and you don't get nuances of a lot of different things because we all know a dog is loyal no matter what.

I think you can even, I don't want to say, abuse a dog and the dog will still be like, please don't abuse me, just love me. And cats are like, I love you, but I don't want to be near you right now. And respect that. You know? They sure do. They sure do. But I just think there's, I've never been wrong about a man that I've dated. Like,

Gemma Smith (47:07.09)
Mm-hmm. Yes, cats have boundaries. They like show you. Yes. I agree with you. I 100 %

Fem Appeal (47:22.65)
If he had a cat and loved that cat, you're gonna love me and I'm gonna love you back. You know?

Gemma Smith (47:27.694)
Mm-hmm. Yes, I was married before and got divorced, so I relate. When you were talking about divorce, I'm remarried. And thankfully, both my husbands did love cats, but I did date a guy in between. I dated lots of guys, but I did date someone in between who didn't like cats, and it didn't work out. And you know what? For a lot of reasons, but one of them was, Gemma, why are you dating a guy that doesn't like cats? He just wasn't open to them?

Fem Appeal (47:39.034)
Okay.

Hey.

Fem Appeal (47:46.184)
Right.

Gemma Smith (47:54.766)
And also I say people that don't like cats, you just haven't met or understood. You haven't met the right cat or you're not patient enough to understand cats. People just make assumptions and they're all different. Cats all have different personalities, but they do show you their boundaries when they want to be touched or if they don't want to be touched or don't want to be picked up. you have to, I respect my cat's boundaries. So I love that you brought this up. This is a really interesting point of.

Fem Appeal (48:04.806)
Right, right.

Fem Appeal (48:09.714)
They sure do. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (48:21.16)
And I'm going to bring up my current boyfriend of 11 years. He had a cat named Crema and I would come visit Crema. And Crema was not my cat and she wasn't really interested in me beyond like, okay, you're in my house. But I think I was a little too eager and I just wanted, she was the cutest cat. But I learned to...

not stare at her, not approach her too quickly. And I just wanted to love her and how I knew like she got sick and she had to be put down. But one thing she did on her last days, she climbed up on the bed and she slept near me. And I started bawling because I knew. And I love that she was saying hi.

and you're a good person, but I'm leaving. And here's the gift she gave me. I didn't have to go pick her up. I didn't have to go chase her. She came to me. And it was amazing, but I knew why. So, Crema, we miss you. And I will have another cat one day, but it's not the right time.

Gemma Smith (49:25.567)
Ugh, that's hard.

Gemma Smith (49:34.318)
Wow.

Gemma Smith (49:39.438)
Yeah, that's such a special moment. we're thinking of you.

Gemma Smith (49:49.344)
Yeah, everyone knows. And I have a lot of friends who don't have cats for one reason or another, but they still love cats or inspired by cats or, like you said, enjoy going to a friend's house. Who has a cat? For our listeners, I love to ask, can you share?

Fem Appeal (49:49.724)
But I love them. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (50:01.722)
Yes. Yeah.

Gemma Smith (50:09.75)
you know, a favorite product or a tip for fellow creatives or fellow cat lovers, fellow performers, whatever is something that you think you'd love to leave the audience with.

Fem Appeal (50:22.76)
I think the thing that when

people talk about me and what I bring to the table. Whenever I'm invited to speak to a new generation of burlesque performers or master class students like Joe's New York School of Burlesque, my big thing is just be excited about what you do and commit to it. And nothing is wrong. Do it. If you don't like it, don't do it again. But at least try it because this is an

art form made for us. When I say it's made for us, no one's telling us to do any of this stuff. No one's like forcing you to do burlesque. So come to it with a passion and commit to it and be professional because even though it's a performing art, it's still a business and you're being hired to yeah, perform.

Gemma Smith (51:26.038)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (51:29.834)
Absolutely. that's, yeah.

Fem Appeal (51:31.566)
So I know like I'm entering my 21st year of Burlesque and I still have ideas that I want to put forth and I still have things that I want to do but I also know because I'm not new and don't have a lot to prove I can do it at my own pace and what I want. So there's a lot of you don't have to do every show.

You can do every show if you want to do every show, but I think like the more stage time you have, the more you get to know yourself as a performer.

You know, and what's cool is the longer you do it, the more that nothing like throws you. can, you can show up to a venue and find out they don't have a curtain. And then you're like, but my act requires the curtain to be closed. And then I peek through, do a different act or try your act without the curtain.

Gemma Smith (52:22.754)
Mm-hmm.

Fem Appeal (52:42.576)
Like there are things that, I remember Gal Friday had a show at Lucky Chang's and it was called Lucky Fridays and everything was done via CD and my CD wouldn't work. And she said before I performed, I can't get your CD. I've tried everything. It won't work.

Gemma Smith (52:42.638)
you

Gemma Smith (52:54.904)
Yep.

Fem Appeal (53:06.734)
So she said, have two choices. You can either do your act without music or you can just sit in the audience and have a good time. I did my act without music and the music was in my head because know your music. Know your music.

Gemma Smith (53:27.086)
That is gold. That right there is gold. how did it go? You just knew the music and you said, I'm doing it. And the audience.

Fem Appeal (53:34.042)
And I did the act in complete silence. And when I was done, I got the applause. But every single person that asked me was like, what was the song? And then I told them. And they were like, wow, that's a great song. OK, now I can see what you were. And it was.

It was terrifying, but I did it. And I never had to do anything like that again. But what else do you do?

Gemma Smith (54:06.456)
That is so inspiring. That's like when you have the nightmare that you're about to go on and the music doesn't work and you actually in real life did it. Yes, exactly. Like your whole, like a big part. Yeah. And what do you do if you, for when you forgot a prop, just improvise around it?

Fem Appeal (54:13.745)
Or you forget a costume or a prom. That happened to me once. Yep.

Fem Appeal (54:27.002)
Yes. I left my werewolf mask at home one time and I was doing two acts and I was like, I don't know what to do. And Jenny Sequin and I were in the same show at the Slipper Room and she goes, do you have your, so my act.

The act, my werewolf act, is Little Red Riding Hood, but I changed it where I'm the wolf, the grandma, and Little Red. Because that was an act that I tried.

Gemma Smith (54:59.83)
assessed.

Fem Appeal (55:04.454)
the traditional way, wearing heels and the dress. And it just didn't seem like a good fit for me. And I'm like, how do I get rid of all of this and just be the wolf and grandma and be crazy? So I had these pieces that I put on my body to show that I'm turning into a werewolf. And Jenny Sequa said, put them on your face and you're a werewolf.

And it did the trick for that night, I was so, I was almost like, what do I do? I want to go home. I'm so angry with myself. But it was wonderful. Yes.

Gemma Smith (55:42.134)
Yeah, and this could happen to anyone and it's good exposure that, hey, you can handle it. It's burlesque. It's not life or death, okay? Yes, it feels that way if not having the music. That's so brave and bold. That's so inspiring. But like, everybody's gonna be okay. You're gonna sink or swim and you're gonna learn from it and grow from it. And if it didn't go well, you won't make sure to do that again, you know? So I think those are really good.

Fem Appeal (55:49.776)
Yes, yes, right.

Fem Appeal (56:02.172)
Right? Yeah.

Fem Appeal (56:10.342)
Yeah.

Gemma Smith (56:11.938)
Good words. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (56:13.96)
But I just, love everyone has a different journey and I love that I found burlesque and that I'm still doing it, especially since I'm a person of a certain age. And I remember I wasn't a spring chicken when I started, you know? So yes, yes.

Gemma Smith (56:33.294)
Yeah, I met you in Tab Beach, which is prime show for our listeners, performers in their prime. And that's where we met. Yeah.

Fem Appeal (56:41.274)
Yes, and I love that show. And it's funny because when I was in my 40s, I was asked to do a show called

I think, what do you call it? Hot flash? Hot flashers? It was called something and I was like, no.

Gemma Smith (56:56.462)
Ooh, that's fun. Okay. Oh gosh, okay. Yeah, oh yeah.

Fem Appeal (57:03.898)
And I wasn't there yet. I didn't want to do a show where I'm in the show because I'm a certain age. Not because... So when when Tabby Twitch asked me and invited me to Prime, I was like, yeah.

Gemma Smith (57:10.613)
I get that.

Fem Appeal (57:20.39)
And it was a lovely time and everybody was fantastic. And it's like they do all these different shows where it's all redheads, it's all moms, it's all, and I love all of that. And it doesn't have to be like, everything is not for everyone, but if you're invited to do a show because they think you're great, but it's also this other thing.

Gemma Smith (57:35.787)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (57:42.19)
Mm-hmm.

Fem Appeal (57:50.364)
that you fit into, that's lovely. I felt like I happened to be a black producer, but I didn't feel like I was a black producer. You know what I mean? I didn't insist on, well...

Gemma Smith (57:53.442)
Yes, I would be grateful, yes.

Fem Appeal (58:13.05)
Now we're gonna do Martin Luther King and everybody has to be black in the cast. That's not how I operated. I just wanted talent. I wanted people to have a great time. And I also didn't appreciate when I would put forth an act, like here's an act I had. I had an act as the construction worker from the village people.

the construction worker from the village people. think his name is David Scar Hodo. And he was this lovely, beautiful man with this big mustache, but it was a white guy. But.

I put on the costume and you could tell who I was and people would go, you're the black construction worker. And I'm like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. And that's why a lot of my art I try to, I'm a girl playing a boy, I'm a girl playing a man, I'm a girl playing a creature or whatever. Or hey, Lando is a lady. I heard all these wonderful terms later,

Gemma Smith (58:54.443)
Uh-huh.

Fem Appeal (59:23.876)
gender play and cross play and I was like, I like that and I've seen the opposite like there's a performer who does Lara Croft but it's a dude. I don't mean here somewhere I've seen it on but anyway I don't like when people put limitations on you or try to label you because yeah.

Gemma Smith (59:29.315)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (59:38.414)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (59:45.57)
That makes total sense. Because burlesque can be so different to the individual and what we each bring to it and what our interests are or what your interests are. And like you said earlier in our chat that you found burlesque was a way that you could bring together the things that you loved. And so there's no limitation there. I feel like, go ahead. No, go ahead.

Fem Appeal (59:51.312)
right.

Fem Appeal (01:00:01.99)
Yes, yes.

But, sorry, but my favorite and proudest moment, there was an older gentleman in the audience at Bar and A on a Sunday night at Kitty Nights, and I did my zombie act.

Gemma Smith (01:00:11.971)
Yeah.

Fem Appeal (01:00:20.816)
And my zombie act has like morphed into other stuff. Like I've changed the song a few times. That's how you keep an act fresh. Sometimes you change the music or the choreography. If it's great the way it is, leave it alone. But I've done that quite a bit. I got off stage after doing my zombie act and this gentleman was like, can I talk to you? And I was like, yeah. And he goes, you really know your zombies. And I went, what? He goes, those are authentic zombies.

And I was like, thank you!

Gemma Smith (01:00:53.932)
You felt so seen.

Fem Appeal (01:00:56.358)
Because I believe in the slow crawling zombie from Night of the Living Dead. I love all the other zombies, but that, yes. Yes. But it was like, I was so proud. I was like, my God, thank you. Thank you. Yep.

Gemma Smith (01:01:01.006)
huh. Okay. Yeah, there's running zombies, there's slow zombies, I know a little zombie stuff.

Gemma Smith (01:01:13.826)
You felt seen. What you were depicting, he picked up on and he knew exactly. That's so validating too, when you know your audience member really gets it.

Fem Appeal (01:01:19.248)
Yes, yes, yeah.

And I think having, producing my own show, gave me the freedom to not care as much what I did there, but I definitely had a different, more professional attitude at other people's shows. Like, I'm being crazy here, but don't worry, I'm not gonna do that to your show. Like, whatever you need me to do, and yeah. Right, right.

Gemma Smith (01:01:32.494)
Mm.

Gemma Smith (01:01:42.328)
Mm-hmm.

Gemma Smith (01:01:50.7)
Yeah, that goes hand in hand, like being professional, showing up, that's part of the job too. I feel like I could chat with you all. We could maybe come back for a part two in the future, but tell me before we leave, let me know, or our listeners know, is there anything coming up next that you're excited about? You mentioned just entering your 21st year. there anything you want us to stay tuned, follow you on Instagram?

Fem Appeal (01:01:59.311)
I know.

Fem Appeal (01:02:15.89)
Follow me on Instagram. I was looking forward to this. This is my first burlesque adjacent kind of gig. I'm not performing, but I'm getting to talk. And then February 6th or 7th, I'm doing Neil deGrasse Tyson at Johnny Caligula's birthday walk with me show. So it's a Twin Peaks themed show.

And Neil deGrasse Tyson has nothing to do with Twin Peaks, but I was invited and we will make it work.

Gemma Smith (01:02:47.968)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gemma Smith (01:02:54.038)
It sounds fantastic. think this episode will air right around the time of that show, so I'll be plugging it. So hopefully our listeners will come out. And thank you so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge and really, really good advice or inspiration for fellow artists. It's themed a pleasure chatting with you.

Fem Appeal (01:02:59.17)
Ooh, yay.

Fem Appeal (01:03:11.484)
Thank you so much, Gemma. Thank you. I was so afraid of my cat story.

Gemma Smith (01:03:13.518)
Yay!