Consumer Protections on the Smallest Scale

Sitting down with a big bowl of salad or admiring the beauty of our plants, it isn't always in the forefront of our minds where those things came from, a tiny little seed. Lucky for us it is a priority for MDA staff members that work in our seed unit. 

Michael Merriman and Shane Blair from the MDA seed team join us today to describe the in-depth work that goes into seed sale in Minnesota and everything that is done to keep customers safe. Michael also recalls a seed conundrum of 2020 when thousands of people were receiving unsolicited mystery seed in the mail. 

Smarty Plants is a podcast of the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. Visit www.mda.state.mn.us/plants-insects/smarty-plants for more episodes. Look for a new episode of Smarty Plants every month.

Transcript

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Jennifer Burington: 0:19

Welcome to Smarty Plants, a Minnesota Department of Agriculture podcast, informing the public about invasive species that affect our environment and agricultural resources. Jennifer Burington here with the Minnesota Department of Agriculture Seed Unit staff, Mike Merriman. And Shane Blair. We all love a lush, healthy garden and bountiful quality produce, but we don't always put a lot of thought into how our landscape gardens and produce get their start. Both start with a tiny little seed. You might be surprised to find out all the work and considerations needed to ensure quality seeds. Mike and Shane are here to give us a behind the scenes look. Michael Merriman is the supervisor of the MDAs Seed Regulatory Program. With a decade of experience in seed regulation, he has worked in all aspects of the program. From conducting inspections to coordinating regulatory efforts for the past three years, he has led a team of dedicated inspectors and administrators who carry out the day-to-day work of seed regulation across Minnesota. As the state's officials seed control authority, Michael also partners with federal, state, and industry stakeholders to keep the program strong and responsive. He holds a Master's in Biology from UW Lacrosse and a bachelor's from the University of Minnesota, twin Cities. Shane Blair grew up in La Crescent and the southeastern corner of Minnesota. He went to college at the University of Wisconsin Stevens Point, and received a bachelor's in Natural Resource Management with a double minor in water and soil. After college, he joined the Conservation Corps of Minnesota and Iowa with a primary focus of handling terrestrial invasives in the southern half of the state on both private and public lands. After three years with CCMI, Shane joined the MDA to focus on Palmer amaranth and is now an inspection coordinator with the SEED program. Shane has been with the MDA's Noxious Weed and seed programs for the last eight years. Thanks for joining us, Mike and Shane. Thank you. Thanks, Jen. So to start with, um, let's talk a little bit about consumer protections surrounding seed. Why is it important to protect the consumer from unregulated seed sales? Mike, if you wanna start.

Michael Merriman: 2:39

Sure. Well, as we all know, consumers are demanding, right? They wanna get what they expect. If you're buying food, you don't want to get poison. You know, that's a minimum. If you're buying electronics, you wanna make sure that they'll work and that you don't have a cracked screen if you're buying the tool, you know, it doesn't have a warranty. Um, so seed, like all of those other things, you wanna make sure that it's a quality controlled item that you're getting and that you know what you can expect once you plant it, you know, is it gonna be the species or the kind that's listed? Is that gonna come up or is it gonna be something else? And is it gonna come up at all? Which, you know, we call that germinate in the seed world. So the seed we're talking about isn't bird seed, it's seed that's being planted in the ground with the intent to grow into an adult plant. So consumer protection, um, is one of the keytones of the seed regulatory program. The seed industry is really good at this too. So, you know, most of the big seed companies and small seed companies and all of the seed companies, um, work with us. So that means that they have to get permitted and then we know that they exist and can help them with the regulations. And the regulations kind of create a minimum standard that they have to follow for what needs to be on the label. Um, what does the consumer need to know about that seed product? So what kind is in it? Um, what's gonna germinate? And then a lot of these companies go above and beyond that as well. You know, that they might have really specific quality controls. Um, and, you know, not only do people want to buy a product and make sure that they know what it is and that it's gonna grow, they also don't want it to be an invasive species. Um, like we have our Minnesota noxious weed list. And there's noxious weed seeds too. So they don't want something that's going to cause damage to humans' health, um, environment farmers. Um, so consumer protection is kind of one of the keystones, um, of the seed regulatory program.

Jennifer Burington: 4:55

Perfect. Yeah. I've always kind of wondered with the mixes that you get, they're very specific and the percentages on the back of the labels on how many. Of each percentage is in the, in the mix and stuff. So that's always kinda something cool to learn about that we help in making sure that that is actually correct information on there. And the company, the labelers also do that too. So how does the MDA ensure that seed in the marketplace is, is safe? What do you guys, what do you guys do to help ensure that it's um, safe? Sure I can take the first stab at that. Um, but Shane here is really our boots on the ground guy to talk about the direct experiences that we have with retail stores and the customers of seeds. Um, but yeah, inspections are a big part of it where we're going to locations and we're checking those seed labels to make sure that the company is labeled everything according to law and that that product is up to date and. That the retailer is handling it in a way that's not gonna affect the quality of that seed. Um, but we also, you know, do direct communications with all of the seed labelers. I think maybe I've mentioned that word once or twice, but that's really the main group that we work with. So those are the companies that get the seed products, I guess you could call 'em. So those would be, um, farmed products. So let's say, you know, we're looking at a grass seed mixture at um. The Menards. Um, that grass seed mixture will have a list of a bunch of different kinds in there. So it's in the seed world kinds is the word that would be used for species. So we're looking at Kentucky blue grass, we're looking at annual and perennial rye grasses and multiple different varieties of things as well. Um, you're looking at varieties of these kinds that maybe do better in the sun, things that do better in the shade. Um, things that come up faster to create that cover and that below ground biomass that prevents erosion. But then some things like Kentucky Bluegrass that take a longer time to come up and develop that below ground. So that's why it's really good for grass, for example, to have a mixture. But all of those different kinds that are in there came from somewhere. So that's kind of the seed production chain that we're looking at. So a lot of that stuff is produced in Oregon and Washington State, and there is some production in Northern Minnesota and some other states as well. Um, I actually had a pretty cool tour this summer where I went with the seed control officials to Corvallis, Oregon, and we were out in the fields watching the harvest happen with grass seed. So here in Minnesota, if you're looking at seed production, you'll see fields of corn, soybean. Um, you know, I don't think we really produce too many other kinds of specialty crops here in Minnesota. But out in Oregon, you know they're producing seed for grass. So that's all a specific variety or known genetics where you're looking at the field and they put in the work to make sure that there's not weeds growing in that field. And then they're combining it, they're gathering that, they're cleaning it, they are sending the cleaned product, a small portion of it to a lab to be tested so that they know what quality is, and then they label it based off that quality. So then you've got. One of those seed kinds that Kentucky Bluegrass, a giant batch of it. So a company might want a portion of that to put into a mixture. So they'll be working with all of these producers and these owners of these genetics and varieties, um, to create contracts. And ultimately it shows up in a bag and there's a kind of tracking system, a chain of custody that looks back to that seed being harvested and that it was true to that variety. And a product goes under the shelf. With kind of a known germination, a known amount of each kind, and, and you know, the lab would also test if there's any weed seeds or other crops, things of that nature. Um. Yeah, and that quality, you know, we usually know what's in the bag already, but it can change over time. That germination, it's sitting in that bag. You don't want it sitting in a hot warehouse. So that's why our inspectors go out there and they take samples of things. They go to our accredited lab and we check that the quality is still there, so that people are getting what they paid for. Because seed, if you've looked, I mean, nothing's cheap nowadays, but seed is definitely not cheap, and you usually get what you pay for. So inspections are a big part of it. We permit so that we can know who the labelers are and so that they can contribute funds to our program. Um, we have five inspector district areas in the state right now. We're gonna be actually expanding that soon. Um, and then, yeah, we have the labeler communications that we work through with permitting, so that would be education outreach at the highest level, and then it goes all the way down to the boots on the ground inspector level with that education outreach as well. And we have administrative staff that, um, handle the permit and the labeling requirements and things like that, um, with the seed labelers. And then I guess one other thing to add, I'm the Minnesota State Seed Control official, so there's ev every state has a, some sort of a seed law. A lot of them are very different. So it's important, you know, to know that as well, that there might be different noxious weed seeds. Different germination test date requirements. Um, and then there's also a Federal SEED Act as well. So the USDA also has some oversight on seed control. So these companies do have a big challenge moving their seed, you know, through that interstate commerce and, um. And yeah, I think a lot of the companies that have succeeded over time are the ones that work with us and we have a good relationship with them as well. And they work with all of the states and they work with retailers who are kind and listen to our inspectors. Shane, what do you think? Did I miss anything?

Shane Blair: 10:56

No, I think you hit it pretty much on the head. I mean, there's a lot that we look at. There's a lot we, uh, not just physical labels and stuff, but we do records inspections and stuff, and I can get into that too. But, yeah.

Jennifer Burington: 11:07

So, Shane, go ahead. If you wanna kinda give us a few of the key things that you look forward during a seed inspection when you actually go out in the field.

Shane Blair: 11:15

So we start out, our primary focus is agricultural seed. I mean, that's like the big thing here in Minnesota. Corn, soy, there's sugar beets, et cetera. Um. We start out with, uh, agricultural seed, and we go and we look at labels. We, uh, look at within the label there's test dates to see if the seed is expired, uh, ripped bags, um, making sure that there's the purity noxious. There's a whole list of stuff that they have to look through, but we can also do what's called an audit. We can do a records request. Records request, sorry. So we can see, you know, where was the seed grown? Make sure that the whole chain of custody thing was there. We can make sure that they have a file sample if need be, et cetera. But the primary thing that we're looking for when we're at a site is just the, the basic label. And if it's expired seed that results in a violation. In the state of Minnesota, you're not allowed to sell expired seed. Different seed have different expiration dates. Um, so that's the thing to keep in mind. But the big, the big thing is, uh, yeah, test dates and, um, making sure that what's required on the label is what we're looking for, and it's there.

Jennifer Burington: 12:23

Thanks, shane. So what are some of the key differences between home use? Um, like seed packets that people pick up, um, at box stores and, uh, commercial use seed packets and like their labeling and things.

Shane Blair: 12:38

Yeah, so a home gardener packet. So picture yourself walking into Walmart, Menards, or your mom and pop shop, and you see that seed rack and there's packets or envelopes of seed. It's a very small amount of seed. So that's a, there's different requirements, a home gardener versus like, uh, more than a pound is what we call it, but I'm just gonna call it for this purpose. Agricultural purposes. So the packet or the home gardener. Um, that's less than a pound. The, the, the label requirements are different. You're not gonna see everything that I'd mentioned previously. You're gonna see like, just the labeler name on the back of the packet, typically, and then like, PAC 4 20 25 or PAC 4, 20 26, whatever it might be. And then typically sometimes the lot number. And then on the front of the packet, you're gonna see this is, um, spring green, spinach or whatever it might be. So there's, there's the variety and kind. Those are the minimum requirements that are needed. There's other requirements that they have to meet that's not on that physical packet, um, like germination and stuff, but that's all stuff that's behind the scenes where when you get into agricultural, so more than a pound, that's where they have to have like a physical label that has a test date. And depending on the seed, um, there's different, uh, expiration dates that you're not gonna see. But that's what we look for. Test date labeler, purity. Um, noxious. So if there's any noxious weed seeds, and as Mike mentioned before, there's different weeds and weed seeds per state. Um, in Minnesota we have a weed noxious weed list, and we also have a noxious weed seed list, which are not exactly the same. Uh, so there's things that, that cannot be sold, that cannot be in that packet of seed. Um, and then the how many pounds, some types of seed. Uh, you have to state how many seeds per pound There are. Um, but that's again, tailored towards agriculture. So there's a little bit different, there's a little bit of a difference when you get the home gardener versus the agriculture, but those are the, those are the main points. Um, they also, we, we come across new seed dealers, seed, uh, people that wanna grow seed and sell seed. So. There's a whole nother avenue we can go down about PVP, title V. That's a protected variety. That's somebody's in intellectual, in, what's the word, inte? Intellectual. Intellectual. Hey there, there we go. Intellectual property. Um, so it's kinda like royalties, right? So if, if I own that seed and you purchase it from me, and then you grow it, harvest it, and then sell that seed without me knowing that's, uh, I mean that's a violation. You know? So we call that brown bagging.

Michael Merriman: 15:20

Um, we, the comparison or relation thing that I like to bring up for that is, you know, when we were growing up, we'd all put VHS tapes in, and then you see that big blue screen at the beginning that gives B warning, FBI warning. Yep. Yep. Do not steal this property. Yeah, so everything out there is owned nowadays and all of these seed varieties are owned by somebody, so they don't want somebody kind of growing it off on their own and then, you know, making their thing an uncontrolled product that's out there. So that is a big thing that we work with too, through inspections is just, you know. That people are mm-hmm. Not cheating the systems that are in place. Mm-hmm.

Shane Blair: 15:59

Yep. So that plays right into what Mike's talking about in the PVP stuff and the FBI warning. Um, not only do we look for labels, look at labels and look at the seed that's being sold and how it, the condition it's in and et cetera, but we're also collecting physical samples. So different types of seed require different amounts of, uh, uh, grams of seed, uh, to be taken, to be tested. Um, and we take that and we test it against the label. So if you're saying, if a company's saying that it's 85% germination and it's 95% peer, um, we're looking into that now. We do have, like, there's a little bit of leeway right in the test results and stuff, but if it's something that falls outta that, then our regulatory side would then notify and we would talk and, um, maybe educate or issue a violation, et cetera. We're in the field, on the ground looking, but we're also collecting samples. So that's a huge part. I think we, we roughly collect, I think like in the last three or four years, the average is about 15 to 1600 samples, which is a lot. Um, and most of that is all just. Random. We're going out, we're going to a site and we're taking what we call, we would like to take a representative sample of what's in the building. We don't go into a building then take everything. We just take a representative sample of all the different brands, kinds, varieties, whatever it might be. Um, and then we move on to the next site. So, and the turnaround time we shoot, you know, when we collect samples and stuff like that is like a two to three week period where we like to get the sample collected. Tested and back out before, you know, the seed gets in, in the ground. Um, 'cause there's a lot of money that's tied into seed. So that's pretty much a boots on the ground, what we're looking for. We do have, um, online presence, we presence that we're look, or we're trying to expand. You know, Facebook marketplace is a pretty hard one to cover. Craigslist, eBay, um, even, uh, Etsy, you know, there's a lot to look at. Um, and there's a lot of people that are selling seed. Probably shouldn't be. Um, but we do like to educate before, you know, we try and take action on something. So cannabis is a whole new realm too, and that plays into what we do. So.

Jennifer Burington: 18:06

Yeah. And these going out and doing the seed inspections, like you're saying, the, I've been out with a, one of our inspectors, Patrick, it's been on a pod, he's been on the podcast here before and then I've gone out with Mike to do like native, um, seed, um, inspections as well. And so, yeah, you guys take a lot of samples of. Um, seed you have corn and soybean and mm-hmm. Treated and untreated. And then the home gardener packets, like even the little like 99 cent ones that you buy at any type of box store that you could go to, um, all of those have been tested and, uh, verified and. Possibly picked up to be a sample to be, um, to make sure that it is actually what you are buying. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's always, it's good to know that there are people double checking everything, because if you don't, if you don't do that, there's possibility that things, um, could not be true on the label and in the package itself.

Michael Merriman: 19:02

Yeah. And we've gone to some sites, you know, and we're not always the person that everybody wants to see when we're there either. So you drive up to a farmer who might be a dealer for some seed and you know. Why are you sampling this seed? My company is the greatest company on earth and would never do wrong to any farmer. Mm-hmm. Um, but the thing is these companies do have really high quality control, but things can slip through the cracks. And in our state, you know, every state, their seed regulatory programs different, but we get out to as many locations as we can and sample a lot of things. So I think we're a leader in that way. Um, that we're looking for a lot of like positive data in addition to the negatives. Um, so we're finding a lot of things that we'd call it pass, you know, if the label's up to standards and the germination, you know, it's gonna grow. Um, I. For those issues that we find, even though they're few and far between for corn and soybean, it's an, it's something that's really valuable to the farmer, to the customer, and to the company's reputation to fix those issues. Um, so companies do have really good quality controls. We're not out there sampling everything. Um, but when we do, um, we work with the company to fix the issues.

Jennifer Burington: 20:13

Perfect. Well, to go into a little bit more, we've talked, um, a little bit about, in previous episodes about what, um, farmers and gardeners can do. But are there best practices that you guys suggest that farmers and home gardeners should follow when purchasing seed? Just, uh, kind of some basics that they should look for Shane?

Shane Blair: 20:33

Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, me being, I grow a lot of produce too. There's a lot of things that. Um, a just a basic person who wants to grow a garden all the way up to agricultural, a farmer, whoever, um, it's cheapest is not always the best. Um, there's a lot of issues that could occur being that it's cheap seed and it's, that's usually a red flag. Um, so not going with cheap seed, not saying you shouldn't just be wary. And then two, if the label. Has what's required. We have it on our website, what a label should look like on the MDA webpage and the seed webpage. Um, but making sure that, you know, it states the kind, the germination or the purity and even like where the seed came from. If it came from Shane Blair's establishment, there should be Shane Blair's establishment. What the address? Um, if it's probably somebody that's shady or a company that's shady, they probably won't post that. Um, so that's, that, that could be a red flag. So reading the label, not buying the cheapest seed. Um, and you can also ask these questions. I wanna see lab results. Anybody who sells seed has to have a file sample, or I shouldn't say that. Not sell seed. The labeler of that seed is supposed to have a file sample and test results. You can ask that and if they deny it, then you could come to us because they shouldn't be doing that 'cause it's something they have to follow. So those are like the three big things. Label, not hopefully not too cheap a seed. And if you want to ask for results or any, any other paperwork you can ask that

Michael Merriman: 22:07

seed's expensive for a reason. Um, you know, you might go to a co-op or farm dealer or you know, even your garden store and see some like oats, cover crop seed. And then you might also see some oats feed. Now, what are the differences between those two things? Well, we actually, I've met farmers through my inspection history that are like, I don't wanna spend all of that money. So they buy the feed oats product and they're using it as a cumber crop on their field. Then they submit a complaint to us that, Hey, this turnips grown in my field. We do our investigation. What did you plant here? Feed? Well that's not tested. It's not verified. It could have anything in it. The intent was never for it to be planted. So that's why it's not regulated in the same way. So these seed companies have to jump through a lot of hoops, um, from, you know, verifying that variety, making sure that quality is there with the testing that we talked about. Um, and that's what it creates, that more expensive product. So, yes, I think in summary you get what you pay for.

Jennifer Burington: 23:04

So we've talked a little bit about, um, what to look for and if something is wrong with your seeds, uh, if we purchase seed and we think there might be a problem with it, um, how, what should we do? Um, should we collect anything? Should we contact how, how do we get a hold of you guys? Mm-hmm.

Shane Blair: 23:21

Yeah. So if you purchase seed and it doesn't germinate the way you wanted it to or as it should have, or if weeds pop up, if there's just anything that causes a red flag for you. We have what's called, uh, a seed complaint here in MDA. Um, we follow up. So what happens is we want you to keep your receipt, we want you to keep your label, packaging, whatever it is that ties you, ties it to that seed, hold onto it, because you're not gonna know when you purchase a seed and then plant it in the ground. How long does that take? Takes a long time. Takes a while? Yeah. So you're not gonna know right away if there's a problem or an issue. Uh, so the best thing would be to not throw that stuff out and just keep it and hold onto it. And then once the seed is germinated, done its thing and then you see if you're happy or not. Um, that's when we would take place. So we do have a website and it is, uh,

Jennifer Burington: 24:17

yeah, their website is www.mda.state.mn.us. forward slash seed, S.E.E.D. will be the website for the seed program in general?

Shane Blair: 24:36

Yep. So when you get to that website, there is a seed complaint form. You click on it, it's a PDF, uh, and then it'll ask, it'll ask all the questions, and I'll just reiterate, let back up a step. When you file a seed complaint form or when you issue one, it's completely anonymous. So there's gonna be questions in there, like, what is the name of the seed, what's the brand name, who's the labeler, et cetera. Um, all of that is completely anonymous. So when we get, so you fill that out, that PDF, and then you attach it to your email and you send it to seed period MDA at State mn us. That's our email address. You send that PDF or that seed complaint form to us and then we'll take it from there. We'll acknow, we'll let you know that we've received it. Uh, and we'll follow up with it. Um, so from there then we do our investigate investigation. From there, hopefully all of the information is filled out. Um, 'cause we're gonna ask for the label. We're asking for a picture receipt, whatever it might be that's on that PDF form. Um, that's what you can do if you find a problem with your seed.

Jennifer Burington: 25:48

Perfect. And so to kind of bring up some of, um, past seed, um, problems that we've seen in, in the us uh, in 2020 hundreds of people started reporting that they were receiving random packages of seed that they either didn't order, that they didn't know what they were. Um. In the mail. And so Mike, if you wanna start us out here, can you describe more of what happened with all of these mystery seeds?

Michael Merriman: 26:26

Thanks, Jen. Sounds good. Um, wasn't sure I wanted to ever visit this one again, but I guess it's good to, um, talk about hard things from our pasts to get past them. And, um, you mentioned hundreds, and that was just in the state of Minnesota, right? We had over 600. Um, I guess you'd call them mystery seeds or unsolicited seeds. I can't remember what the official diagnosis was that USDA gave it. Um, so we saw hundreds in, around the country. We saw thousands, and what was happening was in the height of the pandemic. Um, you know, after or before murder Hornets, I think, uh, mystery seeds became the new monthly. Exciting things so people, you know, it was kind of a perfect storm of tons of things happening. People were wanting to get out and gardening. You know, get out, get out and start a garden. So they were stuck inside and it was an exciting new hobby that they were looking at. So the vegetable industry got absolutely slammed. Um, so some people were ordering seeds and I think some strange products were received, but a lot of these seeds that people received as well were unsolicited would be the word, which means that the person didn't, or said that they didn't order them, and then they received a package in the mail. Um. And didn't know anything about it. Um, not only that, but um, most of these were also from foreign countries, mostly overseas, um, from Asia. And that packaging kind of indicated that. So it would show packaging from China, Turkey, all these other locations. And, um, they were not ordered. So I think let's focus on just the fact that they. You know, weren't, weren't ordered by customers and that they were unverified products, I think is another thing. So these were coin envelopes in a lot of cases, or strange packages that came with little, um, souvenirs inside of 'em, like little plastic glasses or key chains. Um, and there were seeds that were sometimes visible like a Ziploc inside of them. And all the things that we just talked about through this podcast. The labeling, the testing, the quality controls that companies go through, getting permitted by the state. Um. Inspectors being able to go to retail locations to verify the quality of these products before they finally get to customers. None of those steps were followed. So, um, you know, a similar situation would be, you know, commercial feed or, um, if you're buying a product that's not really supposed to be seed, you know, it's. It's cheap. It was not tested to make sure that there's not noxious weeds in it. Um, you don't know what the kind is. You don't know if it'll germinate or not. Um, so these customers were receiving things that, um, in the least. A harmful scenario, you know, just would be dead seeds that didn't germinate or maybe not even seeds at all, just looked like seeds. In the worst case scenario, we be, could be talking about this massive organized bio weapon of noxious weed seeds that were sent to the US and could be, I mean, I think some conspiracy theorists were talking about that. Yeah.

Shane Blair: 29:41

Um, or even like pathogens, you know, or diseases. Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Burington: 29:45

There's a lot of things that seed seed can carry.

Michael Merriman: 29:47

That's true.

Jennifer Burington: 29:48

So that's, that's another thing that's concerning about it, is that there's. Um, pathogens and noxious weeds that they could be these plants that would just start taking over.

Michael Merriman: 29:59

Thanks for bringing that up guys. That's a really good point too.'cause I'm only, you know, my expertise in all I'm talking about is the scope of the Minnesota seed law and those seed regulations, which really is just germination. What is the seed and, you know, um, noxious weeds or not. But we have, you know, an export program that we work with where we're sending something out. It has to be verified that it's free of pathogens. And they do lab testing for that.

Shane Blair: 30:24

Soil pads. Yeah. Yep.

Michael Merriman: 30:26

Soil, um, no insects, things like that. So we require the same of other countries sending things into us. It's checked at customs a lot of the time. Um, so these are products that made it through.

Jennifer Burington: 30:40

Yep. And we talked a little bit about why it's concerning. I mean, you've, we've mentioned noxious weeds. There could be other plants, other diseases and stuff, but, um, why, how do you think the MDA and other agencies, um, or how did the MDA and other agencies respond to this problem? I know we worked a lot with the USDA. If you wanna kind of go into more details, Mike.

Michael Merriman: 31:06

Yeah, it started small and grew really, really fast. So we started with our internal seed team just receiving some of these complaints and, um, putting the pictures into a folder, you know, following the same complaints process that Shane just went through. Um, and it quickly grew. Beyond our capacity. So we started recruiting people from the entire division and started working with USDA, came up with disposal and reporting guidelines, and eventually created a survey that was, um, available for people that had this complaint, that gave disposal instructions and instructions on how to report it to us so that we could have a kind of visual of what they received and get them to send it into the USDA. So the USDA did the screening on a lot of these products and in the end, you know, determined that they weren't intentionally harmful things that were sent into the us. So that's good news. Um, but it was a pretty big undertaking because we're talking over 600 in Minnesota seed samples and then lots of other states I mentioned earlier, we have a really robust seed program here in Minnesota. Lots of other states might not have the same, um. Staffing and abilities.

Shane Blair: 32:21

Some states are just on a complaint basis too.

Michael Merriman: 32:23

Yeah,

Jennifer Burington: 32:25

it sounds like USDA kinda takes o took over everything after, um, we collected all the samples, we gathered them all, um, here in Minne at the MDA and then, uh, you brought 'em all over to the USDA and currently, um. People can still find information. Um, on that, did the USDA have any theories as to why these random mailings were happening?

Michael Merriman: 32:54

The main theory that I think is published online is that it was a brushing scam is the word. So if you go to Amazon or Etsy or these other, um, places where they have a lot of vendors selling products. People, you know, first you'll scroll through and you'll look at, okay, what's the rating? How good was it? But then also what's the number, I think is a very key. Mm-hmm. To make sure you're upfront and center. Center and what people are gonna want to buy. So they were using the theory as the brushing scam, is that they're verifying shipments, um, so that they can boost reviews for something. I'm not sure. Yeah, how that works exactly. But seeds, I guess if they're not a verified product that's tested are a very cheap thing to send, you know?'cause these were not actually seed companies that were sending these over and why it was kind of also beyond the scope of our program.

Jennifer Burington: 33:48

Yep. Um, yeah, they're just little packets of couple dozen. Little tiny seeds and a little ceiling, little baggy, so yeah.

Shane Blair: 33:58

Yeah. I use all the websites and shop online and stuff and I never got no mystery seeds.

Jennifer Burington: 34:03

I know. I felt kinda left out. We weren't one of the 600 in, in Minnesota that got them.

Michael Merriman: 34:10

Yeah. But I've been with the SEED program for over about 10 years now, and when I started I was an inspector and one of the first cases actually that got referred to me was a complaint from a concerned. Women that she received a envelope just like this. So it's, and it's still happening now too. Um, we're seeing handfuls happening here and there, so I think it's something brushing, scam or not. Um, unsolicited seeds, um, from different places around the world have been coming into the US for probably multiple different reasons.

Jennifer Burington: 34:45

Yeah. It seems to be every year, um, since this happened. Uh. This widespread in 2020. Um, every year it seems even in the report, aest that I, um, help triage and stuff, is that there's a couple that pop up mm-hmm. Um, that come through and I mean, it could happen, oh, there's all these accidental shipments just ex you add it in, anything like that. So, um, so what, what should you. Do, um, because it's still occurring. What should people do if they get random seeds in the mail or continue to get them or, uh, have them show up here? This come this spring and one of the ways you can contact us, like I mentioned, is report a pest. So, um, along with the seed, uh, email address, you can always, um, email us at, uh, all one word here, report a pest at. State us. Um, and then you can also visit our website, like I've mentioned earlier in the podcast here, uh, the seed website and you can find, um, their seed contact information there too. And Shane or Gana will probably get back to you. Well, thank you Mike and Shane for teaching us a lot more about seed and all the work happening prior to planting to make sure the seeds we buy are what we want. This has been Smarty Plants, a podcast from the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. Our producer is Brittany Raveill. Our editor is Larry Schumacher, and I have been your host. You can learn more about pests and other invasive species that affect our environment at www dot MDA dot state dot mn dot us. and while you head to our website, we'll be working on the next episode of Smarty Plants. See you there.