Garden Smarter, Not Harder

After our long Minnesota winter, many of us are itching to get outside and work on our gardens, or put some new plants in the ground. Set yourself up for success this gardening season with this episode of Smarty Plants, featuring tips and tricks from MDA staff Michelle Grabowski, Plant Disease Specialist and Allen Sommerfeld UMN Extension Master Gardener and MDA Communications Director. 

Smarty Plants is a podcast of the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. Visit www.mda.state.mn.us/plants-insects/smarty-plants for more episodes. Look for a new episode of Smarty Plants every month.

Transcript

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Hi everyone, I'm Jennifer Burington, and welcome to Smarty Pants. The Minnesota Department of Agriculture podcast that helps you stay informed about invasive species and garden health. Today we're talking about growing a healthy garden from the ground up. We'll cover choosing the right site, selecting seeds and transplants, and creating the conditions plants need to thrive. We'll also share tips for spotting and managing common insects and diseases before they get out of hand. Whether you're planting your very first garden or looking to improve your results, this episode is packed with practical advice for gardeners at any level. Joining me today to share their expertise are Alan Sommerfeld and Michele Grabowski. Thanks for being here. Glad to be here. Yeah, excited to be here. Thanks. Doctor Michele Grabowski is a plant pathologist with the Minnesota Department of Agriculture's Plant Protection Division. Her work focuses on preventing and detecting invasive plant pathogens that threaten Minnesota's crops and native plant communities. Ellen Sommerfeld is director of communications at the Minnesota Department of Agriculture, and is a University of Minnesota Extension master gardener, volunteer and Hennepin County. Let's start at the beginning here. When it comes to gardening success, how much is it about choosing the right site versus actual garden or skill? Like how much do sun soil type and drainage really matter? So choosing the right plant for the right place is very important. Any plant is going to have certain preferences that it and conditions that it's adapted to. And when we provide a plant those conditions, it's going to be a lot less stressed and a lot more being able to grow and be vigorous and healthy and happy. And if pests and pathogens do come along, it's going to be more able to naturally defend itself. However, when we take a plant and we put it in an environment that it's not quite happy with, it's not adapted to, that plant will already start out a little bit stressed. And when we have plants that are under stress, the bed, there are opportunistic pathogens and insect pests that can come in and take advantage of that stressed out plant. And, some of the other pests and pathogens simply cause more severe damage because that plant is not happy, it's not able to vigorously outgrow any problems that are going on. You know, I think one of the biggest questions that people have is how much sun do I get my plants? Is it a full sun plant? What does that mean? Is it a shade plant? What does that mean? You know, we're talking about these rules of, like, six or more hours of sun. That's a full sun plant. Part shade, part sun. That's 3 to 6 hours of sun. Full shade is is three hours or less. And that even varies between, you know, morning sun or is it afternoon sun? You know, I have I have some plants that, well, are now in full sun because my neighbor took down an ash tree because of emerald ash borer. And, you know, I have Liguria, that they're doing fine until that afternoon sun hits them and they just wilt. You know, so it really does matter that you take a look and, and observe your site where you're going to, to, to plant or, or transplant a plant and make sure that, you, you know, what those conditions are, that you're going to put that plant in. Yeah, I agree. And I think it's important to get to know your yard. Most yards have, a couple different microclimates going on. So you might have a shadier side of your house, a sunnier side of your house. You may have an area that, tends to gather a lot of water near. Maybe the the downspout of your gutter and areas that are always hot and dry. And so, you usually can find a place where you can have a plant be happy, but it might not be exactly the first place that you were thinking. So take some time and keep an eye on your yard. Maybe take a day once the leaves are out, for this year, and try to figure out where are the sunny spots? Where are the shady spots? Look at your soil. Dig around a little bit. What stays moist? What? What is more hotter and drier? And pick plants that will do well in those areas? Yeah, maybe I was over overachiever when I moved into our house, eight years ago. We moved in in June. And, you know, I, I really took most of that summer just to observe what was going on there. And, and how the sun changed throughout the season. And, and where, where those sunny spots were when they got sunnier, maybe as the fall approached and the sun angle changed. And there's there's a lot to observe. And you don't have to take take that long. Maybe I maybe I took advantage of that and was like, well, I'll just start next year off fresh. But, it is really important to observe those, those climates and those, those locations throughout your yard. Perfect. Well, that'll get us started on where you can plant these new seeds and transplants. So when people head to the store, what should they look for when choosing seeds or transplants? Yeah. I think the most important thing is to buy your seeds at a from a reputable company, because you know that we have a Minnesota seed law, and those reputable companies are going to follow that. That has to do with germination rates. Maybe looking at, you know, on the packet, they'll have information about noxious weed seed that may be in that seed packet and making sure that those seeds are labeled for the growing season that you are growing them in. So for 2026, here, and also when you're looking at just transplants, you know, it's just best to make sure that the plant looks healthy. And that's the most important thing because if it if it's, you know, a little sick looking, you're not going to start out on your best foot here. Forward with noone. You're trying to, plant that and get your garden to grow. Yeah. And I just want to point out, that a lot of gardeners these days are saving seed. And if you're saving seed from your own garden or you're swapping with others in your local area, that's great. But it's important to know that plant pathogens can sometimes get carried on seed. And so we do want gardeners to avoid get collecting seed from grocery store produce. If you think about where produce is coming from this time of year, it's probably coming from areas outside of the United States, and the seeds in those produce could potentially carry pathogens that don't already occur here. So making sure that you've got good quality seed, that if you're saving seed, you're saving it locally. And if you're saving seeds, you're saving it only from healthy plants to begin with. And we do have a couple podcast episodes that are a little bit earlier. If you want to go back and listen to them, they're about, about specifically choosing seed, and also some other, more description of how to how to think about where to get the seeds and then the noxious weed list and the noxious weed seeds. So, there's always that option to, to get a little bit more information too. But good. Moving to kind of, on once we get those plants and we're bringing them home, what are some of the most common mistakes people make when planting transplants? Michelle, if you want to take this one. Sure. So I think it's really important to remember that a lot of our transplants have been starting their their life in a nice, warm, sheltered greenhouse. And so, there is a risk of moving them outdoors too quickly where they're going to be exposed to very strong sunlight. Maybe they're going to be exposed to colder temperatures. Then they're used to hotter temperatures than they're used to. And even the soil. So this time of year, as the, seasons are changing, we know that the weather can go up and down. We can have hot days. We can have cold days. The soil may be very cold. And taking a plant that's used to a nice, warm greenhouse and putting it into very cold soil can stress those roots. Very wet, very cold soils can make our transplants prone to damping off. Which is a disease of many common root rotting pathogens that take advantage of young, growing roots. Particularly when the soil is very saturated and wet and heavy. And if it's very cold, we want to make sure we're taking some time to take our transplants, put them outside, on a nice day, maybe not in full sun right away. Give them a couple hours outside before bringing them back in for the night. And do that a couple days in a row, maybe even up to a week, and keep an eye on those temperature changes. We want to, it's a process called hardening off. So they get used to the outdoor temperatures, before we leave them out there full time and then making sure that, again, we have a good well prepared site, that there's good drainage in place. And ideally, we want that soil to warm up a little bit before we're putting our plants in. We do have a few plants, that can tolerate more colder conditions. And if you know that about your plant, that's great. But especially some of our more heat loving plants. Things like tomatoes and peppers. Cucumbers. We're going to want to be careful to keep an eye on the thermometer before we move those outside. You know, especially if you're growing flowers in your garden. And you take that plant out of the pod, and you see that these roots are all wrapped around each other, you know, it's really important to take those roots and loosen them up. You can be pretty rough with them. You know, they're not delicate, very delicate flowers or or roots there. But it's really important to loosen up those roots when you get them in the ground, so that they don't, that a plant doesn't become root bound. So once everything is in the ground, how often should gardeners really be checking their plants and what should be what should they be looking for? So if you're putting a new plant in the ground, you should probably be checking on it once a week. Remember that new plant going in the ground? It doesn't have a root system established yet, so you're going to be wanting to check on soil moisture. If we're getting regular rains, you might not have to water it, but you want to make sure that soil is moist, but not, soggy, not saturated with water and flooded, because we want to allow time for that root system to really establish in that area so the plant can become, healthier and more vigorous. So especially in the beginning, probably, every couple days to once a week, making sure it's looking good and you want to see a plant that's starting to, develop new buds that has healthy, firm green leaves. The stems should be firm and green or brown, depending on, what type of plant you have. And then, things that you would be wanting to look for so many of our fungal and bacterial diseases, splash around and they like humid conditions. And so where we see them starting is on those lower inner leaves in the canopy. And so that's a good place to to check first is make sure you're looking at those lower inner leaves. If you're seeing 1 or 2 leaf spots, you can actually pinch those off before they're able to spread higher up in the canopy. And then paying attention to how does that growth look, if you have a plant that's wilting on a, on a sunny day, or maybe part of it is wilting and part of it is healthy, even though the soil is wet. That's when you're going to want to start digging deeper and try to figure out, is there something affecting the roots? Is there something affecting the stem and start getting into, determining what's going on with that plant? Or if you're like me, I'll just be in the garden every day and, like, looking and seeing what's going on, because that's what I like to do. But, you know, it's also important because any disease or any pest, you know, they can take off quickly once they get in your garden. So it is important to, to kind of be on top of things and, and check on them. And, you know, also important point, especially for, you know, some vegetables, even some, some ornamental plants, you know, staking, making sure that they are supported, as well, and that they can, they can grow, and, when they do, when they do have fruit that those are supported as well. And, and making sure that that is up off the ground because then that, you know, lessens the chance of, of disease, as well, spreading from plant to plant. Yeah. And then also with some of the insects too, you're going to want to be looking for, for damage on the leaves on, on the stems, looking for discoloration from some of the feeding and stuff. So or if the shape of the leaf looks a little bit off, it might be because a caterpillar got half of it already. So continuing with insects, what are a few key, insect pests gardeners should keep an eye out for in veggies and flowers? Oh my gosh, I feel like there's so many. There are. Yeah, I, you know, dealing with aphids, falling plant, bugs, leaf miners, you know, all of these can be issues. I've run into, leaf miners, especially in my garden. And you can tell a leaf miner from other insects because when you look at the leaf, you'll see these white little squiggly tunnels in the leaves. The the leaf miner is a fly in, and the larva is the one that that gets into the leaf and is chomping around there. And so, you know, it is important to make sure that you're looking and and checking regularly for these insects because some of them like a leaf minor, you can pinch off the leaf and you can get rid of that and and try to stop the spread of that from with from the plant itself and to other plants around it. But you want to really be sure to be on top of that and make sure that your, if you decide to treat or use some chemical, prevention that you have to do that early on because sometimes when we get to a point of, population of insects, you're past the point of of any chemical being effective, on that. Yeah. And some of the other common ones, like Japanese beetles. And yes, there they are out there in the forests where they're going after your trees or your plants or your roses. Those are some of their favorites. But also like, some of the newer ones that we have, like lily leaf beetle, the red one. We've had more reports of those across the state. And those you can find the tiny little eggs, the little red eggs, on the leaves. And so when you're out there looking at between pathogens and insects, looking for those other colors and just things that look like not part of the leaf. So that's always good to, to look for as well. And talking about Japanese beetles a little bit more, what about those beetle traps that we see at the garden centers? And I see it, Helen is also smiling here. Are they helpful, or are they actually making things worse? They're helpful if the trap is in your neighbor's yard for houses down. Yes. You know, because they're very effective in, bringing those Japanese beetles toward the trap. But that just means that they're, they're attracting more beetles into your yard. And that means all of your plants are just more susceptible to to those Japanese beetles. So, you know, I, I try to avoid having those, and I encourage others to avoid using them. But if, if you see your neighbor 3 or 4 houses down, put one up. Actually, that's probably the best thing for your yard. You know? Yeah. I don't have I don't have anything that I think the Japanese beetles. Really? Oh, I guess we have some, like, grapevines and stuff, like just wild grapevines growing around that. They. But they like, so early season issues, can pop up fast. We've kind of talked about that. Like, if we don't get an eye on, recognize symptoms or see signs right away, they can become a bigger problem. And possibly the plant's not going to make it. What are some of the most common diseases you see early on in the season? And how should gardeners respond? Michelle. So, some of the first things we start to see in the growing season are our leaf spot diseases. And these are often caused by fungi and bacteria. And the biology of these organisms is they survive in plant debris down in the soil from previous years. Infection. And when we get those nice spring rains or early summer rains, the spores or the bacteria can get splashed up on to the foliage, and they need that moisture to start and infection. So this is where it's really important. If you're checking out your plants, that you're not just kind of looking at them from the top when you're walking by, because there may be a problem deeper down in that plant, close to the soil line, that's starting. And you want to catch it before that entire plant canopy is affected. So looking for fungal and bacterial leaf spot diseases, make sure you kind of get down close to the soil line. Some common examples. Sap toria leaf spot and early blight are really common on tomato plants. And they, they will follow that classic pattern where they start on the lower leaves. And then once you have leaf spots on the lower leaves, rain will hit those leaf spots and splash them up to the next level of leaves and the next level of leaves. And this will keep going on a growing season long. So gardeners can interrupt that by getting out there early on and pinching off those infected leaves and actually taking them out of the garden. So they can't get splashed back on to the plant. It's okay to take up to a third of a plant's foliage. You want to be careful not to take more than that, or you're probably doing more damage yourself than the pathogen was. But, especially a vigorous, growing tomato plant can really tolerate you pulling off some of those lower leaves. Some of your flowers. In the flower garden, you'll see similar issues where lower leaves will start to show infection. And again, you can kind of pinch those leaves out, off, pull them out of the garden so that they're not just right on the soil below them. And that helps open up air circulation around the plant and reduces the amount of, pathogens right in the garden. I think some common ones that gardeners are used to seeing are, diseases like powdery mildew. So, very much like it's name describes. You get kind of a powdery white growth on the plant. These are tricky because they can they like humid conditions. And, but they can also tolerate it dry. So years that we have drier, humid conditions, we tend to see a lot of powdery mildew. And again with these it can be a little trickier. Because honestly, having a resistant variety can be one of your best options in dealing with a powdery mildew. But a lot of plants will also tolerate them. Some other kind of fun, interesting diseases we see are the rusts. And those are a fungal disease. And, they can cause bright yellow, bright orange, bright red spots. And they often, move around on air currents and they need moisture in that canopy to get going. So keeping those leaves dry, pinching off infected leaves, but also just appreciating some of the cool things that you're seeing out in the garden as well. Yeah. And especially with like powdery mildew. I always have a peony in the front of my yard every year. You know, it gets powdery mildew and but it's a cosmetic issue really. You know, I think we need to be mindful of that. Like what what is the issue that is going to really affect and hurt the plant and possibly kill it versus something that's just cosmetic and that we can live with and that we, we don't really maybe need to step in and do anything, you know, using some sort of, chemical or mechanical agent to, to stop that, from moving on. Yeah. And I think that's a really good point. And it actually brings us back to the first question about planting the right plant for the right place. Because if a plant is in conditions it's adapted to, it can tolerate a lot of these. What I would consider minor diseases like powdery mildew, a rust spot, some of the minor fungal leaf spot diseases, because otherwise it has what it needs to grow and the disease becomes just sort of a minor stress on it. And the plant is able to continue growing regardless. So what are some simple preventative tools and practices, that really make a difference in keeping our gardens healthy? Yeah, I think for practices, you know, there are a couple of ones that are very important. And one is spacing. You making sure that your plants have enough room to grow. You know, you're getting this little seedling or you're planting a little seed in the ground, and you have to make sure that you're giving it enough space for it to grow and that there's enough air circulation around it. And that's really, you know, key to preventing things like, like powdery mildew, and some other funguses and then also making sure that you have mulch or if you have some type of ground covering down, because that also helps, this stopping the soil from splashing up and funguses from splashing up when, when you're watering or when it's raining. Yeah. 100%, fungi and bacteria that cause plant diseases. They love moisture. So, there's some moisture we can't control if it rains every day for a week. There's not a lot that we can do about that. But if our plants are well spaced out and, perhaps it's a really, a dense canopy, maybe you could prune it to get better air circulation through it. Sometimes we see plants like tomatoes may need staking or trellising to get them up off the ground, and then we can prune them to improve air circulation through them. But anything we can do to get that foliage to dry quickly after it becomes wet is going to reduce the amount of fungal and bacterial leaf spot diseases that we see. We should also think about the how we're putting water on plants. So whether you have an automated irrigation system or you're out there with your garden hose, it's the roots that need the water, not the foliage. And so as much as possible, we want to water the soil, so the plants can take up the moisture that it needs and try to avoid watering that foliage in the flowers, because that'll create conditions that the fungi and the bacteria really thrive in. And we've talked a little bit about diseases here already. So how can diseases spread in the garden from like plant to plant or across the whole garden. And are we sometimes the ones responsible for moving them around? Yeah, I think I've mentioned a couple of times that a lot of our fungi and bacteria do spread on splashing rain and splashing irrigation, whether they're spreading from leaf debris in the garden, up on to the plants, or from infected leaves onto another set of infected leaves. The wind will actually carry some fungal spores and bacteria into the garden. But we do play a role. And, when we're out there working on our plants, if there is an active infection going on, it is easy to get spores and bacteria on our hands and on our tools. And in particular, bacteria are sticky. And so if you are in your garden, and particularly if you have a plant that is starting to develop some sort of a disease issue, number one, I would say work on your healthy plants first and then, move to the plants that are maybe having a health issue that you're trying to deal with. And if you're going in, maybe you're pruning off an infected stem or pinching off a few infected leaves, collect that material, take it out of the garden, and then make sure you wash your hands with soap and water and clean your tools. So tools can carry the plant pathogens. But using something as simple as rubbing alcohol or bleach that's been mixed at a 1 to 9 ratio with water, will be very effective in cleaning those tools. So you don't accidentally spread those pathogens as you go back to work in the garden. And I know that, you know, for some gardeners, the big scary thing is hosta virus acts, you know, talking about viruses. And, I have a lot of hostas. And I know that this comes up in some, you know, some gardening circles because it is very easily spreadable. And that has to do with the sap from the, from an infected hosta. And so every time I want to split a hosta or even plant one, I'll make sure that my tools are, are, are bleached and that I'm even rotating tools. I have a couple sets of, of shovels here, so I know that one sitting in a bleach solution and, and is being disinfected while I'm using another one. I swap those out. You know, it's something like that. Like a hosta virus. Axis is the worst case scenario for, a hosta gardener. And it's something to be, you know, very mindful of. And that gets into also like swapping plants with people and going into other people's gardens. You know, you want to be careful of, of making sure that you're not spreading disease from one place to another because of that. Yeah. And also like with some of the other work that we've done with making sure that you're, if you're going to visit, like your neighbors gardens and take a look at them, are grown on these like, garden tours and stuff, making sure that your shoes are clean, like brushing them off, making sure there's no soil on the bottom. There's jumping worms potentially going to be coming from all of these, people that are sharing plants. And so there's or other invasives, whether it's a disease that may not be presenting yet on those transplants. So it's always something, to think about as well. Yeah. Some people like to especially, you know, like hosta gardeners with hosta virus. They have a little, you know, they have a little hospital or something like that, they call it, where if they're bringing a new plant into the garden from somewhere else, you know, it goes there for a time being and they monitor it. You can you can test for, you know, how the virus acts. And, so they go it goes into the little garden hospital, in the corner of the yard and is planted there and monitored. And then once you make sure that you don't have any disease that you're bringing into your garden, then it can be transplanted to the spot that you want to. Then biosecurity at its finest with hostas. I never thought I would have covered them with hostas. Oh, I could go on and on. Oh, I have a bunch of hostas. I don't know where they came from. When we bought our house, there were a few that just keep popping up. They just show up everywhere. So talking about viruses a little bit more, and how can gardeners tell the difference between a true disease and an environmental issue? A lot of times these will kind of look similar. I'm thinking of issues like blossom and rot, which looks like a disease, but what's actually causing it? Yeah, for blossom and it's really a nutrition, problem or nutrient problem. You know, the plant is not taking up the nutrients. Oftentimes it's not consistent. So people are usually like overwatering or watering inconsistently. And that's causing this blossom and rot. So it and the name is kind of, you know, very descriptive at the end of the tomato where the blossom was, turns, turns black or dark and then, you know, the fruit is no longer good. Yeah. And I think it is really important to try to identify what exactly is causing the problem, because that's going to allow you to get the information you need to manage it. So there are some insect pest problems, like for lean plant bug that if you see the damage, it looks like leaf spot disease because they feed and make tiny little spots all over the leaf surface. And if you didn't know that was an insect and tried to use a fungicide or change your watering practices, you'd be surprised that there'd be no no management effect actually happening. With that, you need to know what's causing the problem in order to be effective in managing it. And there are some great online resources, to help, determine what's going on with your plant. The University of Minnesota has a tool called what's wrong with my plant? To help you identify, common insect and disease problems. I know the Master Gardeners do a lot of work, with gardeners in their counties, helping them understand what's going on in their garden. And then the university also has a plant disease clinic that you can submit plant samples to. And there are experts there that will be able to run advanced tests in the lab to determine if it is hosta virus acts, or maybe it is cold damage or, an environmental issue, or herbicide issue that's causing similar symptoms on the plant that you have. I'll just, you know, prop up the Master Gardener program since I am a volunteer with it. But, you know, the Master Gardener program is in all 87 counties of the state. So, you know, you can go to your local Master Gardener program and get some great advice. And and, you know, I always think just like buying plants or seeds, the more local, the better. The more local advice, the better. That's what I say. Yeah, they are probably dealing with whatever you have going on in your garden. The master gardener in your county is probably also dealing with the same thing, because you're in the same conditions or site conditions, whether you're getting lots of rain or no rain, the soil types is going to be probably pretty similar. So yeah, it's a great resource. So we talked a little bit about fungicides, and I don't want to get too into the weeds on fungicides and other chemical treatments, but what should gardeners keep in mind. If they decide to go that route? Michelle. Okay. I think the first thing that's important to mention is that the majority of plant disease problems that occur in a home, garden or landscape do not require the use of pesticides. There's many, many cultural practices that can be used, including resistant varieties, changing your plant spacing, changing your watering practices, and tolerating infections that are not detrimental to the health of the plant. That actually will deal with a large portion of the problems that you see. But from time to time, fungicides are necessary or are desirable. If a gardener wants to, achieve a certain level of disease free for a particular reason, and in that case, it's really important that you understand that how, critical the label of that pesticide product is. So in Minnesota, the label is the law, and the gardener must read and follow all of the instructions that are listed on that label. If they're going to use that product. And it's very important to understand that the plant the gardener intends to apply the product to must be listed on that product, or it cannot be used on that plant. And they would have to find a different product where they do have that plant listed. And this is really important to understand, especially if you're growing both vegetables and flowers. There are some products that are able to be used in a home flower garden, but would not be acceptable to use on, vegetable garden and vice versa. So the the primary thing here is make sure that you're really carefully reading that label that you understand all the instructions and are following them carefully. Yeah. And just to that point about vegetables, especially because you're going to be consuming that if that vegetable is on the label, you still need to make sure and follow those directions about application up to the date of harvest. Like how how many days you have before you can you have to stop or should not be using a pesticide, before you harvest and eat that vegetable. You know, there's a window on that label. And again, the label is of law. And and, you know, this this kind of applies to synthetic and or organic pesticides, too. I mean, the organic pesticide, you still need to be reading that label. Just because it is organic doesn't mean that it it could be potentially harmful, to yourself or to other beneficial insects or, or outdoor environments. So you have to read that label, no matter what chemical or type of chemical you're using in your garden. Perfect. Well, and then as the season wraps up and we have, enjoyed the wonderful flowers and the Bountiful harvest from all of our tomato plants that are doing great. What should gardeners do with diseased plant material? And is it ever safe to compost it? Yes, actually, compost is a great option for diseased plant material. Especially if you have a compost pile that is managed to heat up and break down that plant material so it looks more soil like by the time you're ready to use it. There's studies showing that if you hit that higher temperature and it's all broken down, that plant material, the majority of plant pathogens are going to actually be broken down in that process as well. If you're like me and you have a compost pile that's a slow, colder pile of rot, then it probably doesn't hit that hot temperature in order to kill the plant pathogens. And in that case, if I'm going to use my compost, I make sure that I'm putting it on a different type of plant than where the disease plant material came from. So, for example, if I put in a bunch of disease tomato leaves, maybe I'm going to use that compost and put it underneath my dogwood bushes next year. Because the diseases tend to be, tend to more commonly infect plants of the same plant family. So, a fungi that attacks a tomato is unlikely to also attack something like a dogwood shrub. So you can use that option. County compost sites are another option. That would be a case where, because it is being professionally managed, hopefully those are reaching higher temperatures and are getting broken down so that when the final product is done, it's it's a nice kind of organic soil like material. That's available. And again, if you've hit those temperatures and get the big chunks of plant material broken down, then that will take care of the majority of plant pathogens. Sounds like we have the same type of compost pile. I'm not reaching 100 and something degrees. I can't remember the exact temperature. A little shady, that's. You see, that's the problem. Yeah, because you want to leave the some areas for all the your beautiful plants. Exactly. Yeah. But I mean, just to that point, though, I mean, get a thermometer. I mean, that's the easiest thing to do is get a thermometer and stick it in there, and then you'll know for sure, if your compost is getting hot enough and you can tell to by how long that takes for your compost to break down. But getting a thermometer in there is the is the best option. Yep. And that to the tools in the garden shed. So for listeners who want to learn more, about gardening and dealing, having a healthy garden and possibly managing different pests, whether they're beginners or experienced gardeners, what resources would you all recommend? Yeah, Michelle had mentioned a couple of them already, but you know that the University of Minnesota Extension website, what's wrong with my plant is great. It has a wide variety of information for for vegetables, for ornamentals, turf, you know, deciduous and evergreen trees and shrubs. It really covers a whole gamut. So that's a really great resource. Again, ask the Master Gardener line. You can call that. You can also fill out a web form, on the extension website and get your questions answered. That way, you know, we have some resources here at the Department of Agriculture that I think, are great as well. Report a past, you can submit information to that. And then we haven't really we haven't talked about weeds and, you know, in this episode, but, there's a lot of great information about, in our weed of the month, newsletter, which, you know, has a whole lot of information for that applies to gardeners, because, you know, weeds are a whole other thorn in our sides and in the garden. But you can go to our website and sign up for the weed of the month newsletter, and that comes out around the first of every month. Yeah. We also have our Plant Pest Insider newsletter. That kind of encompasses both the noxious, some of the noxious weeds like weed of the month. We also have information on the different invasive insects that people are seeing in the field. At nurseries and other garden centers that we're out inspecting. And we also have inspectors across the state looking for all kinds of, insects that are potentially coming into Minnesota. So, and diseases as well. We look for those too. But we do have our report of pests like Ellen mentioned. If there is something that you notice that is quite unusual or unique or new, you've never heard of it before, doesn't seem like you can't really find it's not listed as being in Minnesota yet. You can always reported and to report a pest, the, website for that is w dot m dea dot statement us slash. And this is all one word here report a pest and that has our online form that you can fill out to and include pictures. And again submitting things to the master Gardeners. Also is works really well too. Again, they're going to know what's going on in that county, that local, knowledge on what's happening locally. And then did you have anything to add, Michelle? I just wanted to say, again, going back to our first question about selecting the right plants, that there is a plant selection tool, on the University of Minnesota Extension website. There's also and I believe this one focuses more on native plants, but blue thumb.org, has a plant finder. And again, you, enter in the conditions at your site. So how much sun what's the drainage like? What's the soil? And, what are you looking for in a plant? And it'll help. Help you choose plants, that will thrive in the conditions that you have. I would also encourage everyone to just, take some time. It's. If it's too cold to be out gardening, it's a great time to read through your seed catalogs or look at information online about, your local nurseries, because many times those catalogs do list information about resistant varieties. They list a lot of details about what that plant requires to be a healthy plant. And so it's a it's a good time to kind of, plan ahead and find a plant that's going to be most successful in the site that you have. Perfect. Well, I'm excited to see what everybody's gardens look like this year. If the rabbits don't get them. Yes, that's a whole another pest. So. Well, thank you so much. It's truly been a joy talking to you. I certainly learned a lot. And I'm sure our listeners did, too. Hopefully we've helped plant a few seeds of confidence for this growing season. This has been Smarty Plants, a podcast from the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. Our producers, our Brittany Revelle and Katie Anderson, our editor is Larry Schumacher, and I have been your host. You can learn more about pests and other invasive and species that affect our environment at WW dot m d a dot state stem.us. And while you head to our website, we'll be working on the next episode of Smarty Plants. See you there!