A Boomer and GenXer Walk into a Bar
Wit and wisdom, some smart assery, and a Mother and Daughter questioning “Are we even related?”
A Boomer and GenXer Walk into a Bar
The World of Child Beauty Pageants and Changing Fashion Norms S1:E15
Child beauty pageants raise complex issues about sexualization and the societal pressures placed on young participants. Jane and Bobbi discuss the long-standing implications of these events, share personal experiences, and stress the importance of protecting children from being exploited by societal expectations.
email: boomerandgenxer@gmail.com
Good day, good day, good day, hey, welcome to a boomer and a Gen Xer. Walk into a bar where we will be talking about some really kind of subjective topics today. My name is Jane, my co-host is my daughter, bobbi, and you're going to experience a little wit and wisdom and some smart assery and maybe some back and forth discussions on what we agree on, what we disagree on. And, bobby, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing a lot better, a lot better, a lot less sick, not as sick.
Speaker 1:So we are not at the rabbit hole studio, we are still traveling and we are on the road. So if our sound is a little bit different, bear with us folks. I'm in the mountains of Georgia and Bobby is stillby, is still in iowa and I have dr domain here with me. So we're just trying to keep things rolling and keeping things real here in georgia. How's the weather in iowa, bobby?
Speaker 2:it's horrible. We're under a winter weather advisory right now, so we've been getting snow all day not good. And yeah, so tomorrow it's supposed to get worse somehow, of course.
Speaker 1:So that's great, Nice. Well, you kind of expect it right December in Iowa.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know you expect it, but you don't ever want it.
Speaker 1:What Some people like snow.
Speaker 2:Well, they can have it.
Speaker 1:I think you wanted to go somewhere else with that comment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did, I did. I got to keep it clean sometimes, you know.
Speaker 1:So one of our previous topics that we discussed had to do with reality TV and influencers and we didn't get real deep into it. But that was a topic that I think came up from one of our viewers or our listeners. And this topic today is also one that came up from our listeners and this one might make people remember a situation that happened back in the 90s and we're going to be talking about sexualization of children in beauty pageants, in contests on TV. Some of the apparel and dresses and outfits and how they act is really kind of questionable and I know it's come come under fire here recently. And do you, bobby, do you know any kids that are are in pageants or have been? Wasn't any of?
Speaker 2:mine. Well, yeah, no, definitely when we were in Texas. We lived in Texas for four years and it was kind of a big thing down there. It was, you know, pageants and friday night football, and so you know, we did know a lot of kids that that you know in their schools and stuff like that. That did pageants? Um, fortunately none of my kids ever did. They were asked. You know, I was told to put my girls in pageants and stuff and I told them that over my dead body, that's right uh, and the reason for that is just because of how we believe, right?
Speaker 1:I mean, we really don't want to put the pressure on the kids. We really don't want the kids to be judged based on, you know, how they look, how their makeup is, how their makeup is, how their hair is. You know we want kids to look nice. Don't get me wrong. I wanted my kids to look nice too, but I certainly don't need one more thing for this world to judge my children on. Now. Some of those pageants they start them pretty young.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, they start them as I mean like baby babies, not even like not walking or talking or anything like they're just they just kind of sit them on the stage and they just kind of sit there. But I mean a lot of them, a lot of. It was just the fact that to me it's creepy. It's creepy to see you know a three, four or five year old looking like someone who's going, you know a-grown woman who's going to a ball yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, and just some of the dance routines that they taught, teach them, and I I don't really get into it. I mean I really don't, uh, watch any such thing. I do know there was a reality show and I'm not sure if it's still on.
Speaker 2:Um, might have been like little dancers or some so well, there was the um toddlers in tiaras, oh yeah is that where honey boo boo came from? Yeah. Yeah, that's where honey boo boo came from.
Speaker 2:Yep I think I saw her once I think a lot of it, you know, a lot of my trauma, comes from the JonBenet Ramsey case. You know, because I was only like 15, 16 years old when she was murdered and that was a huge spotlight on her was the whole pageantry thing and you know what they were saying, that her mom was making her do and all this other stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a lot of questionable stuff in that investigation. So JonBenet Ramsey was a little girl. I believe she was only six years old. She was found murdered in her own home. I mean you can look it up and see what it was all about. There was a ransom note. They couldn't find her for the longest time uh, it was well.
Speaker 2:Actually it was only a few hours that they couldn't find her, but and they ended up finding her in her own basement, in her own basement house. Yeah, the house was so huge I mean, these people had a lot of money this house was just, I mean, massive. And you know, it took them a few hours to get down to a part of the basement they never used and boom, there she was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I guess I found it really questionable that you, you know, you report your daughter missing. I, I mean, I'd be going through it a hundred miles an hour, you know, with every single room like boom, boom, boom. And when they said it was hours later, I thought, dang, you know, nobody bothered to look there. And then when the police show up, they didn't bother to go there for a few hours.
Speaker 2:I mean the whole case. There's a lot of you know, true crime podcasts and shows on it and I mean from the beginning the whole case was crime podcasts and shows on it. And I mean from the beginning the whole case was. I mean it was one of the biggest shit shows of the 90s because you had people coming in and out of the crime scene. You had, instead of the police looking through the house, you had the family looking through the house without the police. Right, it was just. I mean it was a botched investigation from the beginning.
Speaker 1:And so the controversy actually came from. Of course, you know when something like this happens, you're going to criticize or the public is going to criticize anybody that they possibly can, and, of course, they attacked the parents, right.
Speaker 2:Of course, because all the skeletons come out of the closet at that point.
Speaker 1:Right, and I don't know who was guilty, who was not guilty. They've never solved that particular case they don't know. And now you know patsy ramsey she's deceased. I don't know where the, where john bonet's brother is, um, you know, I assume he's still alive. I I really don't know. But a lot of the controversy during that investigation came and and a lot of the criticism came based on the fact that she was, uh, involved in the pageants she did dress in, you know, in and, in all fairness, a lot of really cute little outfits.
Speaker 1:But yeah, but they were adorable but there were some and that were very provocative. And also, if you look at some of the pageants that are you know, I was looking online to see there's a lot of kids that are in pageants it just kind of blows my mind and it's like like why would you set your kids up for this to be judged like this? I, I don't get it, but that's just me. Um, but uh, a lot of it had to do with you know how, uh, you know how sexually appealing these outfits were on these little bitty kids, and then some of the dances or how they taught them how to walk and the amount of makeup that they were putting on these already beautiful children I mean just totally beautiful children and then you cover them in you know thick makeup.
Speaker 1:And I guess you know this is just me as the boomer. I thought it was a bunch of crap because I thought I'm not. You know why would you subject your kid to that? First of all and secondly and this will make a lot of people mad it's like dressing up your dog, you know, in a dress or your cat in a dress. What their fur's not enough, they're not good looking enough without putting a freaking dress on them.
Speaker 2:So I will say you you know I'll interject here um, a lot of controversy came, you know, from some of the videos and stuff that they had of john bonnet and a lot of these other pageant kids, and one specifically was where she was pretending to play the saxophone and everybody was talking about, oh, you know how sexual it was and you know I've watched it. I've watched it many times because of the true crime stuff I watch and as a parent, as an adult, as someone who you know is very deep into true crime, I don't see that as a sexual dance. I can see how it would be perceived to be by someone who is not um, in their right mind, I guess yeah, so let's yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's touch on that now that you brought that up, cause I do want to talk about that. So people say you know, whether you're a little kid? You know these little kids and some of them are in these pageants and I'm not kidding you. I've seen some of the outfits and they are very provocative. Or if you are a young woman and you're dressing provocatively and people go oh well, they're just being them. You know, and don't get me wrong what's?
Speaker 2:provocative to you. Wait a minute. What's provocative to you? Let a minute.
Speaker 1:What's provocative to you Let me finish and then come back to that question. But my point is this that you know, people go well, I'm not the one with the problem, it's the person who's viewing me, you know, with a dirty mind, or that they want to hurt me, or they want to do things to me sexually, or that they're sexualizing me. And it isn't me. You know, just because I dress this way, I should still be safe. Just because I act this way, I should still be safe. Listen, I don't disagree with you, totally agree.
Speaker 1:In a parallel universe where all people are good and have no unpure thoughts. The fact is is that may be true, but we don't live in that type of world. We live in a world where we have people who are creepers. We have people who we have young girls right now, um, you know who don't care that their mom or dad see them stripping or selling you know photos online of themselves and they're very proud of it because they're making good money at it. Um, and we have people who are really kind of just, um, whether you call it morally or principally or stand, I don't, I don't know where you would put I would say morally, you know, um, a threat. I think that that's something that we have to protect our children from dead silence. I think we have a responsibility to protect our children now you can say I agree, I agree my kid has the right to walk around in whatever outfit they want to.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Just because you have a right to do it doesn't mean you should do it. Just because you have the right don't mean you should. And you have to think about your own personal safety and the safety of your children and you have to understand we don't live in a pure world. We live in a world with a bunch of sickos and people go well, that's their problem, not mine. No, it is your problem. It is your problem because we have to deal with it. And so I guess you know when we talk about the pageants, if it was, if it was up to me and I'm I'm not, I mean, I'm no prude, you know that, but I would like to see the kids covered up. You know, I don't need to see little thong bikinis on six-year-old girls walking across the little stage.
Speaker 2:I don't need to see that no, I I've seen bikinis on. I don't think I've ever seen a child in a pageant in a thong bikini well, maybe it's just going up their little butt, I don't know it might be, but nevertheless, um, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's probably some pageant moms out there that might chime in and say, hey, you know, this is why I do it, this is my child enjoys it. I'm not saying your child doesn't enjoy it. You know everybody wants their, their moment and everybody likes the attention, and and I'm not saying that they don't. But you know, getting back to, uh, you know the john bonnet case, you know that thing was never solved. Um, who knows? I mean, everybody's got a theory about that, right, right, but to me I think it is sexualizing children, I think it is exploiting children. That's how I feel.
Speaker 2:But is it? Let's look at it this way, though. Also. You know back when I was growing up. You know in public let's say at a public swimming pool, things like that you know it covers more than than my underwear did when I was out in my front yard in the sprinkler and there were people driving by our house. You know strangers driving on the road. They could see us. You know it wasn't uncommon. You know for for kids to to be that free and to. You know not not have to worry about I mean, I guess as kids we don't worry about it anyway, but you know for like for our parents not to worry about every. You know Tom Dick and Harry driving down the street going oh my God, are they looking at my kid, Are they? You know what are they thinking about? Him type of thing. So, so what?
Speaker 1:has changed. Life has changed. Come on, our culture has has changed. There's so many things that are so acceptable now that were not acceptable back in the 80s and the 90s and 2000s and back when I was a kid, there were a lot of things that were not acceptable. It would not have been acceptable for somebody to come by your house and gawk at your kid, right I mean, come on. And now it's like people want them to look at their kids I mean, I guess I guess I can see that.
Speaker 2:you know they, they want that. You know, as we talked about before, they want the, the, the publicity, the fame, the tiktok. You know followers and things like that, and I'm completely against that. By the way, I don't think that you should be using your children in that way. That's the. You know we can go down a different path with that, but you know, one thing that I'm getting to is the fact that you know, if you look when we were growing up, when you raised us as kids the you know you could walk into Montgomery Wards or a Sears or something and you know, get a pair of shorts and a tank top for a little girl and there were no midriffs. You know things like that. I mean there might have been, you know, here and there, but you know you can walk into the girls section and there were regular shorts, there were regular t-shirts, there were regular jeans for us kids.
Speaker 1:And when you say regular, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:Well, like you do it now, like you know, I go shopping for my youngest. My youngest is nine years old. I have to shop in the boys section for her, because she's not comfortable with what they offer little girls now, because now it's booty shorts, because these shorts are so short that I mean they barely go past, you know, the crotch area for these little girls. All of the t-shirts are cutoff t-shirts where they don't go past her belly button. You know things like that and she is personally not comfortable with that. I'm not comfortable with her in them either. But that's my own personal choice to have shorts that come down at least halfway down her thigh or to have a T-shirt that actually covers her belly. Because, you know, even in Walmart you're not finding these things, you're not finding these clothes that cover little girls' bodies anymore, as you would back in the early 80s, you know, early, mid, late 80s, sure and fashion has changed, obviously, over the years and tolerance to what people wear has changed.
Speaker 1:I think people are more acceptable to pretty much anything and I don't care what you wear, as long as it doesn't affect me and mine. You know it's kind of like. You know it's kind of like. You know, if you want to wear, if you're a guy and you want to wear makeup and a dress, you know what? Go, do you? I don't even care. But don't shove it down my kid's throat and don't come around me and try to justify your position. If that's what you want to do, hey, you go for it, Because I'm not going to explain to you why I'm wearing jeans and a flannel, so don't come explain your outfit to me.
Speaker 1:But I do think that we're living in a different world. I think we have a responsibility to protect our children and it is a sad situation that we have to think of the thoughts of others and how they perceive our children and we've gotten to a point where anything is acceptable in our society. Hey, you do you. You know, if that's what they want to do, go ahead. You know it's acceptable. Don't judge them, Okay, well, sorry.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean to a certain extent, yeah, you know, but I don't agree with anything is acceptable because of course you know we still have the unacceptable, the, you know the, the, what I call the, the bad ones, the murder, the rape, the pedophilia, things like that, you know I, and they can say what they want. You know about the whole minor attractive movement. That's, that's bullshit. You're a pedophile, you deserve to be put away forever.
Speaker 2:That my opinion, I agree, I agree, I mean, I don't think things are, you know, everything's acceptable. I think that more people have come to accept the fact that it's not my life. If that's what you want to do, that's what you want to do, you know. But yeah, when it comes to children, I think that that there is there's a disconnect of the protection of children versus, I don't know what you'd call it, the, the. You know, trying to make your child popular, right, you know, you know, trying to make them in that running for being socially acceptable, when it wouldn't be socially acceptable if society did not accept it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's true.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:You know, and sometimes I think it's the parents who want that 15 minutes of fame who want that 15 minutes of fame. You know, I think, absolutely, I think. You know, oh, that's my child, oh, you know, and somehow it becomes about them and, um, yeah, I, I, you know it's, it's uh. So I guess I'm going to ask you this flat out are you pro or or against uh pageants for little kids? It's such a hard one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. It's such a hard one because I'm very pro, you know, do what makes you happy, as long as it's not hurting anyone else. Now, when it comes to pageants, it can go either way, because you know, know, if you're mentally stunting your child or mentally um, you know forcing your child to be something that they're not to be a 20 year old in a five-year-old's body I have a problem with that yeah and everyone should have a problem with that everyone should, if they want to dress up like mommy in a floor length you know dinner gown and have their hair done and they feel beautiful.
Speaker 2:I am for that. Like, get that girl some roses. She is gorgeous if that's what she wants to do. And you know, and a lot of these little girls do, they work hard and they actually, you know they go for the pageantry rather than the showmanship of it, and I know that sounds really weird, but they go more for the I don't even know how to put it Not so much for the look at me thing, but for the. I feel good doing this type of thing I gotcha.
Speaker 1:I understand that. It makes them feel good, it makes them feel important, it makes them feel pretty, and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I like to dress up, I like to feel pretty. You know so, so do you, you know?
Speaker 2:um, I think and a lot of this I am on the fence about, you know, especially like with little kids and and how you know they dress and things. Because on one hand you know I'm like man, you know I really don't think little kids should be wearing that, but that's my opinion. But on the other hand I'm like, stop sexualizing my child. I don't care if she's out there in booty shorts and a bikini top at you know, six, seven, eight, nine, ten years old. You know that's a child, I know that's a child. Stop sexualizing them, stop looking at them and having. You know those sexual comments come out of your mouth, whether they're good or bad, because we all know that's a child.
Speaker 1:Stop sexualizing them but in a society, bobby, that, where you cannot control that, you can't control somebody else's thoughts, you can't control how they view your child. The only thing you can do is protect how your child is viewed and, and you know, protect them from not being sexualized. And you, you know you can argue that point all day long and say, hey, stop looking at my kid that way. You know what? We don't control those people.
Speaker 2:You're right. And here's the thing, though it doesn't matter what my child wears, because you know they have an exhibit that goes around I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but it's an exhibit and it's a heartbreaking exhibit because what it does is it has the clothing that people were wearing when they were sexually assaulted, and in this exhibit, these people were wearing baggy hoodies and sweatpants these, you know, this exhibit has pull-ups and a onesie, and so you know, you look at that and you go. How could you sexualize that on a child? Yeah, like there's no stopping it. The people who are sick, they're going to be sick, yeah.
Speaker 1:But there's a lot more of them out there.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of them out there we need to start calling it out. I agree, you know you got the creepy uncle who comes over and goes, you know, to your 14 year old daughter, dang. She's really filled out, she's really looking good. No, sir, there's the door. We need to stop that cycle. We need to perpetuate what we want to see in the world. We need to put our foot down and go. We're not having this anymore.
Speaker 1:I think that's an excellent point, bobby, and I think that's an excellent segue into probably the end of our show today because we're running out of time. But do want to say this I know, when you were explaining that on what those kids you know were were wearing when they were sexually assaulted. I know that's very emotional and I could I could tell you were getting emotional about it. I get emotional about it too. All I'm saying, folks, is let's protect these kids. We have an obligation to protect these kids. Whatever that that looks like to you, please don't let people sexualize your kids. If a pageant is in your child's future, wonderful, use good judgment, please, please know it isn't your child that's doing anything wrong. It's those bad guys out there, those bad women out there that are doing bad things wrong.
Speaker 1:So please, please, understand our position, but that's all we have for today, isn't it, bobby? It?
Speaker 2:is, and we appreciate you joining us here. We're not at the Rob Lowe Studio, but cross-country today. Be sure to follow us. We look forward to spending time with you each week. Please like us and if you have positive feedback for us or if there's a topic you want us to talk about, drop us an email at boomerandjenexer at gmailcom or come on over to our Facebook page. A Boomer and a Gen Xer Walk Into a Bar the official podcast. Let us know how we're doing, what you want to hear us talk about. If you have hate mail, well, you know where you can put that. So until next week, I'm Bobbi Joy and I'm Jane Burt.
Speaker 1:And you're stuck with us.
Speaker 2:Peace out Look.