A Boomer and GenXer Walk into a Bar
Wit and wisdom, some smart assery, and a Mother and Daughter questioning “Are we even related?”
A Boomer and GenXer Walk into a Bar
A Boomer and GenXer Dive Into the Death Penalty... Unpacking Justice and Injustice S:1 E24
What if our justice system isn't just at all? Join us as we explore this provocative question in our latest episode on the death penalty, where the complexities of morality, legality, and human impact collide. With Bobbi Joy and her mom, Jane, at the helm, we bring you a nuanced conversation that starts with startling statistics from 2024 and learn how the U.S. compares on the global stage, trailing only behind China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.
From the deeply flawed legal system where justice can be elusive, to the emotional and ethical dilemmas faced by those personally affected by violent crimes, we leave no stone unturned. Discover why 200 exonerations since 1973 underscore the grave risk of wrongful executions and question the true fairness of our courts. This episode challenges conventional wisdom and calls for a justice system that is faster and fairer, inviting you to be part of the conversation.
email: boomerandgenxer@gmail.com
welcome everyone to today's show. A boomer and a gen xer walk into a bar coming to you from the rabbit run studios, where you, as a listener, will experience some wit and wisdom, some smart assery and a mother and daughter questioning. Are we even related? My name is bobby joy and my co-host is my mom, jane, and for the next little while we are here to entertain entertain.
Speaker 2:Yay, hey, guess what, bob? So what so? Uh, I'm still in georgia, you're still in iowa, and the weather's getting so much nicer. Uh, here we're going to take a little vacation, so we're gonna head over to um tybee island, I think, for a little while. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's cool. Our weather went right back to crap, so I'm not very pleased.
Speaker 2:Oh no, that's no good, no no boy no hey, uh, our topic for today. I think we settled on a topic. We talked about this in advance, but I think we settled on, uh, the death penalty. We're gonna find out who feels what way today, today, and who's for death penalty and who is not.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and we are going to throw some facts at you, we're going to talk about some stuff and, yeah, we'll see where this goes, because I know that it's been a hot topic for a long time now hot topic for a long time now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it seems like you know, obviously it's, it's uh state, right, it's the decision of the state not, not a federal thing, it's a decision of the state. And um, bobby, I wonder if my stats because I looked up a bunch of stats too and of course you know depending on where you look and what, what survey you looked at and what year it was yeah, the totals could be different, but how many US states have the death penalty right now?
Speaker 1:so right now, in the United States, only three states currently still have the death penalty.
Speaker 2:Oh see, that see that's not what I found. That's not what I found. What I found was 27 US states have the death penalty still on their books, but only three still exercise, still exercise that.
Speaker 1:I guess I read that wrong. So yeah, only three still actually exercise the death penalty. I guess I was thinking that you were asking about actual active. Oh, gotcha that we're still doing.
Speaker 2:I I read that 27 still have it on the books and um. So in 2024, 2024, just last year, how many people in the us were executed?
Speaker 1:oh, executed. Yes, we're executed, gosh. Just because I'm not sure now, I know, as of january 1st of 2024, there were 2,244 people on death row in the united states. Um, but I'm not sure if I have the number. That's actually was executed last year.
Speaker 2:I show now again, however old. These stats are right, because at the end of the year the states submit their information and it takes, uh, about three or four, almost six months to update your records from last year. But I show that 25 people were executed last year eight. Okay, that makes sense eight of those people were white caucasian, uh-huh, uh, six were african-american. And how many of them do you think were female versus male?
Speaker 2:gosh, I know that um now, this is just last year. You're saying what just for last year in the us, out of all of those um executions that we had in 2024 and again, you know, whatever, wherever you get your stats, they've got to be pretty close to what we picked up too. How many of those do you think were female?
Speaker 1:Well being that females only make up 2% of the death row population, I've got to say it's pretty low. It's got to be like maybe one Zero.
Speaker 2:Zero females in 2024 were executed. All of them were males. Eight of them were males, eight of them were white caucasian, uh, six were african-american and uh yeah, so females are are not getting executed, but then there's there's a lot less females in the prison system than there are males correct.
Speaker 1:True, and there's a lot less in there for violent crimes or crimes that would actually be on the docket for a death row sentence.
Speaker 2:Right, right. So let me ask you this Top three countries, top three countries who have the highest rate of death penalty, of death by, you know, by execution because of crimes.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say probably United States is one of those. No, no.
Speaker 2:No, I thought it was. I thought it was. It's not the US.
Speaker 1:Somewhere in the Middle East.
Speaker 2:I'm guessing. Give me a country, iran, iran is number two, number two.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm on a roll. Yeah, um, I'm gonna say, uh, columbia oh, that's good.
Speaker 2:No, is columbia a country? Oh my gosh, your dad. No. Do you want to know who's number one? I'd like to know who's number one China, china, china and iran is number two and saudi arabia is number three and actually that's surprising.
Speaker 1:I didn't know china still had the death penalty, yeah, and you know who's?
Speaker 2:number four us, us, yeah, yeah, the us. So, um, all in all, 55 countries have the death penalty still. Now, I'm not saying that I'm not saying they all exercise it, because most don't, um, but they have the opportunity if they ever chose to. 55 countries is what I found. Now, that's on the stats that I found. So if that's changed a little bit, so be it. But and again, please don't hold us. We're not, you know we're not in a court of law reading these stats off, but we are finding.
Speaker 1:We're not professionals, we're not professionals here.
Speaker 1:So okay, so did you know that a lot of the states who participate in the death penalty cases a lot of them will allow all of the participants who participate in a felony in which a death occurred? They can be charged with murder and possibly face the death penalty, even though they didn't directly kill anyone? So what that means is, like, um, an unarmed accomplice in a bank robbery uh, you know who's the getaway driver, and somebody is killed inside that bank during the robbery, and now that that driver, who wasn't even in the bank, is on the hook for a death penalty case.
Speaker 2:So that kind of makes sense, though, to me, because you know, I don't know you got four guys or four gals together and you know one of them's going to be the getaway driver and somebody else is going to be the lookout and the other two are going to go in. When you're committing a crime, isn't there some type of propensity that you could get hurt or you could get killed, or you may have to kill somebody?
Speaker 1:I guess, I don't know, I'm I'm kind of both ways with it because you know, I guess if I were to make like a gang of robbers, um, pretty much the most gullible one would be the getaway driver. You know kind of the the dumbest one of the group. So that person may actually believe that we're just going to go in there and say, give us your money, and they're going to give us the money and nobody's going to get hurt.
Speaker 2:They might actually not know that you know, there's the chance of somebody dying well, I, I suppose, or they could be the person who's got the best navigation system in their car, right? I, I mean, I mean, you don't know how they pick them. So yeah, you never know. Yeah, so, bobby, tell me. Oh, you had a question for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what? I don't know what is your stance on it, Like how do you feel, when do you sit and why do you sit like that on this, this stance that is such a tough question.
Speaker 2:Such a tough question, uh, I don't, I mean, I don't know too many people who could fire the answer off. You know, just like that, without thinking through this for a minute, you know, as a christian, I will say that, um, you know, there is something, something in the Bible, an eye for an eye, and there's also one of the Ten Commandments that says thou shalt not kill, and I think God was pretty serious about that. But yet we send a lot of people to war, send a lot of people to war, you know, we send a lot of young men and women, uh, to war to kill people over things that they don't even know why they're killing people.
Speaker 1:And well, if I remember my bible classes um correctly, I believe that god even sent some people, uh, to kill themselves, you know, to kill other people. Of course he did, he had had his command.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, he commanded holy wars. There's no doubt about that. That's all over the Bible. But you know what? You and I aren't God and uh, we don't have that kind of authority, and so you know, um, questioning a holy war is compared to, you know, killing somebody because they killed. You know, that's just so tough for me. I guess I would have to say that if somebody was a mass murderer and we knew for sure, and I think we're going to talk about this too but they knew absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is no question, you know, know in anybody's mind that this person did this, these killings, and you know they were very heinous, I would say. I would say I would have to go for the death penalty.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I mean I'm very conflicted with it, for sure, okay.
Speaker 1:Where do you stand? Well, I'm going to throw out some stats here that's going to roll into my stance of it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So you know, as of January 1st of last year, 2,244 people were on death row in the United States.
Speaker 2:Okay, that seems like a lot, it does. 44 people were on death row in the United.
Speaker 1:States. That seems like a lot. It does, and since the 1970s, 1,608 men and women have been executed in the States. Okay, now, since 1973, there have been over 200 people who had been convicted and sentenced to death that had since been exonerated and found innocent.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, see, I knew you were going to lead to that, and that's a whole different show for us, right? Because you could really get deep into that, but we got to talk about it here.
Speaker 1:It is yeah, and you know a lot of that is you're looking at. So the studies estimate between four and 6% of people incarcerated in United States prisons are actually innocent. So that means, if 5% of individuals are actually innocent, one in 20 criminal cases result in a wrongful conviction.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy.
Speaker 1:It is, it is and you know. You always hear people who are in jail say oh, I'm innocent. Everybody in jail, in prison's innocent you know, they say that well one in 20, they're not they're like no, no, really I am I am, yeah, and you know a lot of them have been wrongfully convicted due to faulty forensics evidence. Um, and some big cases were the Central Park Five, where the five-.
Speaker 2:I remember that case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were wrongfully convicted of assaulting a white woman in Central Park. And then the Oscar Walden rape case in 1952, it was a coerced confession. He served 14 years in prison before being exonerated in 2004. And there's a lot of reasons that a lot of innocent people go to prison.
Speaker 2:I agree with you there, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:Not only faulty sciences, but you're looking at the police misconduct prosecutors' misconduct conducts.
Speaker 2:it's old forensic sciences that we no longer use, including, um, you know, the lie detector tests, bite mark analysis, things like that, and we will cover that in another podcast episode, because, yeah, that's my forte, that that's my, that's my thing, right there I, I know that you followed that stuff pretty closely because that's what you went to school for and, um, you know, I just have to say this because I think it goes along with it and I think we'd be remiss if we didn't say it, uh, during this podcast is that our judicial system is broken?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's not a judicial system, it's. It's a legal system it's a legal system.
Speaker 2:It's. It's not because there is no justice. There is no justice, and you know we talk about a speedy trial, that you have a right to a speedy trial and some of these folks sit there for 10 years waiting for their trial to come up, and also that you would be judged by your peers. Well, come on, you know, first of all, they're not my peers, probably and you know. Secondly, I truly believe, just watching some of these crime shows and some of the actual footage from court cases, that it depends on how good a storyteller that your attorney is. You know, if you go in there with the facts and I really, truly believe that the judicial system was set up for this reason or in this way is you bring me the facts.
Speaker 2:And I did a lot of investigations when I was working because it was just part of my job, and you know, one of the things I always said was facts are emotionless. They are totally emotionless. And so if you look at them that way and say, listen, I just want the fact, just the facts, ma'am, I just want the facts and let's stop this storytelling stuff, because what you're doing is you're leading the jury to believe a certain way, just because you, you know you look better today, or you look more convincing, or you sound more convincing, or, you know, maybe you've been an attorney longer than the other attorney has been, and I don't think that's fair. I really don't. I don't think you need to tell me a story, tell me the facts. And if I can't be convinced based on the facts, then they walk, and I think that's how it was supposed to be.
Speaker 1:And some of it does go back to the fact that what are the facts? You know I can say that I have a PhD in, you know, forensic spit marks and you know I can string this whole story together about why this person's guilty because of this spit mark on him, and nobody can disprove me because there's not a lot of evidence against it.
Speaker 1:And there's not a lot of spit mark experts out there, exactly, exactly, and at the end of the day, you know the jury, they're human and in order to go to sleep at night, in order to feel okay about what they have just done, whether it is to you know, say this person is guilty or innocent, they want to know why, they want to know the how, the why, the where, the when, and so by weaving that story and having that storytelling, it's really to entice the jury that hey, this is believable, and you'll go to sleep tonight feeling okay because you convicted this person, because of the story I told.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree. And you know you had mentioned that there's so many people that have been falsely accused, falsely convicted, and you know what a horrible thing to have to go through. I mean, your heart really goes out to those people and their families. And you know, just having somebody, when somebody tells me that you know well, you're a liar, I didn't say that, I mean my heart just sinks. When somebody just says, well, jane, I didn't say that, you're a liar, that would make me sick. That would make me sick. And just to think that you would be accused of an actual crime and then held accountable when you had absolutely nothing to do with it. And again, I do go back to you know the length of time that it takes to actually make a decision on these folks and I think it should be very speedy. And you know it stops this.
Speaker 1:I think you have to have time to investigate, don't get me wrong but on the other hand, if you really force somebody's hand into a certain window of getting you know, I absolutely agree that there are some people who walk this earth that shouldn't be allowed to. I believe that there are crimes that are so heinous that they should forfeit their right to walk the earth. I guess, like I said, since 1973, 200 people who were convicted have been exonerated. So if we can save the one innocent person from that wrongful execution, I believe that it is worth abolishing the death penalty for all those who have been sentenced to death by our legal system. There's no reason they can't spend life in prison without parole versus, you know, putting them to death, because it could save that one innocent person from dying when they don't deserve to.
Speaker 2:You know, a listener who may have lost somebody to a very heinous crime may say it's because it never happened to you that you make that comment, that it's easy for you to. You know, say let's abolish the death penalty when it's never been close to your family. But right, we have had some crimes that have been committed on us. You know the shooting of my grandson in the school, and I will tell you, we came out of that with some pretty level heads and I'm thankful for that. But a lot of that is because we educated ourselves on a lot of stuff and we still continue to look for protection for our kids in the schools.
Speaker 2:And I'm getting off, I know I'm getting off beat here, bobby, but I just had to say that I still stand with them. I'm in, I'm conflicted, I still stand with that. Again, as a Christian, I would say no, I don't want to see anybody die, you know. And somebody could say well, as long as you don't pull the lever, you know, you know it's not really you. Well, if you can donate, it's you and um, so I, but I, I, I hate to even say it, but I'm still on the fence, still on the fence yeah, and, and I completely understand that, I do, I do um, so any other?
Speaker 2:stats you had to share with us. Uh, oh, I have one here. I have a question for you. Yeah, can uh, the death penalty be carried out if someone is pregnant? Let's say that you are given the death penalty and you're a woman and you get and you are pregnant, and can they go ahead and carry that out?
Speaker 1:so I don't believe that they can. I believe that they have to wait until the pregnancy is over in order to carry out the death penalty, if I'm correct that is correct and it's called.
Speaker 2:It's called something like preserve, preservation of the belly, or or something like that. I can't remember what the law is called. But no, they cannot go ahead and, uh, execute someone, uh, if they are pregnant. So, hallelujah, thank goodness for that, you know right, because that's an innocent baby. Yeah, absolutely so. Oh my gosh, this was a tough one today, and I'm still now.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be in conflict as I go to bed tonight all because of you, bobby, all because I know it, I know it and you know, and we've got a few more show ideas just off of this episode, I know absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's probably all we have for today. We'd sure like to hear from our listeners on this, because I tell you what this is a tough one and it can cause some pretty deep discussions and some pretty hard feelings, I think, just talking about it. But we appreciate you joining us here at the Rabbit Hole Studio that's where Bobby's at I'm at the Rabbit Run and be sure to follow us. I'm asking you, please follow us, and we look forward to spending time with you each week. Please like us and if you have some positive feedback or throw us a topic, throw something at us that you want us to talk about, because we're always looking for that and we'd sure like to hear from you. So drop us a short email at boomer and gen xer at gmailcom.
Speaker 2:If you have some hate mail, you know we're really not interested because we're not haters, but we will take, you know. I mean, we'll take comments, we can take criticism. We just don't want the hate, so you can keep that. But until next week, I'm Jane Burt and I'm Bobbi Joy and you're stuck with us. Peace out Later.