Why Criminalizing Homelessness Fails - Do You Know What Works Instead? S:2 E:22

A small-town plane crash set the scene—sudden chaos, blocked roads, everyone scrambling for a way around. That’s how many cities handle homelessness: move it along, push it out of sight, and call it a solution. We take a hard look at the Grants Pass v. Johnson ruling that lets cities ticket people for sleeping in public, and we ask what happens when poverty is treated as a crime rather than a policy failure.

We break down what “homeless” actually means, from tents and car camping to RV life without hookups, and why those distinctions matter for law, services, and dignity. Then we get into the gritty details: shelter rules that shut people out, curfews that clash with job hunts, pet bans that force impossible choices, and time limits that keep folks in churn. We talk camp sweeps that bulldoze IDs, meds, and bikes—the very tools needed to stabilize. We call out hostile design—bench dividers, spikes, boulders—and camping bans that criminalize rest. Alongside the stories are the stakes: cities spend millions enforcing visibility fixes that don’t reduce homelessness, while affordable housing proposals get blocked by NIMBY fears about property values and crime.

We also trace where donations do and don’t go, urging support for local groups—VFW halls, mutual aid networks, church funds—that get cash and goods directly to people without bloated overhead. At the core is a choice between comfort and conscience: if we can’t stand to see tents, we should demand the homes that make them unnecessary.

Join us as we trade myths for evidence, frustration for action, and stigma for straight talk. If this moved you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review with one idea your city should try next. Your voice helps push real solutions forward.

email: boomerandgenxer@gmail.com

Transcript

Cold Open And A Plane Crash

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome everyone to today's show, Boomer and Jones and Walking Tobar coming to you from the Rabbit Running Studio, where you our listeners will experience some wisdom, some smart asteroid, primarily not from me, but from the other one. And a mother and a daughter questioning, are we even related? My name is Jane. My co-host is my daughter, Bobby. And uh we're gonna talk about some interesting things today. But hey, before we get started, I wanted to mention this. I don't know when y'all, when our listeners are gonna be listening to this podcast because we roll them out, we record them, and then we have to put them in the library, and then they get scheduled, and then you all go in and you pick them whenever you want. But I just want you to know I went to Gainesville, Georgia today to do some business, and uh a plane crashed right in the middle of town.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Right in the middle of the toll-size plane you're talking about?

Weather Whiplash And Climate Quips

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah, that so there was a big accident, and it was like, wow, what happened there? Because I mean, they called out everybody, and it seemed like every road was closed. And for for a time being, it was like, where do we where do we go? So we were all trying to cut through like Target and wherever else. I don't even remember what it was. I'm not plugging Target, sorry about that, but um, you know, just any way to get around it, but it was crazy. I mean, and so I get to where I'm going, and the guy says to me that I'm dealing with, he goes, uh, a plane crashed down there. And I had seen a couple of cars that had gotten hit, and I thought it was just a car crash, but apparently a plane had to make an emergency landing in Gainesville, Georgia, right in the middle of town. Crazy, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

So anyway, was it like a little Cessna plane, or was it like I'm looking at the photos here?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

It's a single engine, it looks like maybe a Piper Bonanza. Um, just looking here.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Okay, so not like a full airliner type.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

No, not like an American airline or Delta or something like that. But it was, I mean, it was uh, you know scary. It was real. Can you imagine driving along and all of a sudden a plane drops out of the right in the middle of town? And I don't even I was trying to think of where the airport is. There isn't an airport in Gainesville. I think there's a small one, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:27

There is one.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Oh, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

There's the general aviation air okay, yeah. Minor injuries, no one died.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Okay, no one died. Oh my gosh, they just minor injuries.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

I mean, if the pilot did his job, he would have safely landed it.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

It was, but it was just crazy. So anyway, just had to share that with everybody. But uh anyway, uh, other than that, how you doing today, Bobby?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

I'm actually doing really good. It is uh 61 degrees up here at the beginning of February, and the windows are open. Right and uh yeah, in Iowa?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

I think it's in Iowa, I think it's 57 here or something, isn't it, Dr. Domain? 54, 54 degrees here in Georgia, colder than Iowa. What in the world is happening to our environment? I do not want to hear climate change, okay? Because I do agree that climate change is sacrifices. Oh, what'd you sacrifice this week?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Well, I can't say, you know.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Was it that? Wait a minute. I just want to know if it was that goat, because if anybody listened to one of our previous uh podcasts, which had to do with um Craigslist and eBay and Marketplace, there was a bizarre one on there about a goat that was possessed, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, yeah, goat statue.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Goat statue. So I just wondered what kind of you know things you were putting up.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

No, uh, we'll just go ahead and plead the fifth on that one.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

And uh yeah, but are you just burning dirty underwear? You're not burning like the neighbor's cat or something, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Oh god, no, I love cats.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Taste like chicken.

Setting The Topic: Homelessness

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Tastes like chicken. Okay, what are we talking about today, Bobby? What do you think? What do you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Well, you know, with the cold snap that we've been through in winter, and you know, a lot of times uh we hear about places called warming centers that are opened for the unhoused, uh, which used to be the unhoused set of politically correct term or something. I don't know. The unhoused yep, it's the unhoused the residentially deprived for this for this podcast, we're gonna call them homeless. Okay. Um, and that's exactly what we're gonna be talking about today. So we're gonna be talking about the criminalization of homelessness.

What Counts As Being Homeless

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Is it just homelessness or is it poverty also in general? Because I noticed when I was looking up some of that information, I always ask you, what's our topic today, Bobby? And I know what the topic is, of course. I think our listeners think that it's a surprise. Okay, you have surprised me a couple of times. But um, I I was looking it up and and it seems like it's not just homelessness, it is poverty in general. But we're gonna we'll talk about homelessness and then maybe we can shift over to poverty a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

But there's probably a pretty strong correlation between your the poverty level of people that are homeless, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Well, absolutely, but you know, let's face it, I mean, Bobby's probably got stats in front of her. Not everyone is homeless or living off on the streets because they have to. Some have chosen that lifestyle, correct?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah, it's a very small percentage, but yeah, and there are mitigating factors to that.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Bobby, can you help define for the audience what's homeless? I mean, if I'm living in a van down by the river, that's considered homeless. That's homeless. Wow, that's pretty plush.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

I thought that was just being a good hippie. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah, if you live in a tent, you know, we have these uh homeless cities, is what they're called. Even though you have a tent, that is still considered homeless.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Oh, so what's the definition of a home then? Does it have to have like a permanent foundation or what?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So it would be it would be like a permanent housing situation, um, that you also have you know what you need. Like if you're living in an RV, you have a PO box, you have destinations that you can go to and pay for, like campgrounds uh or private property, things like that. Now, when people are homeless and live in RVs, they don't have places to go to park that RV. They might be going to a Walmart parking lot or a truck stop or things like that because they don't have another place to park it.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

And so next week we're gonna officially be homeless.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

We're gonna be homeless. Um, but he's bounding down. The biggest difference is is they don't have water, they don't have sewer, they don't have food, and a lot of times they don't have electricity because they can't afford those hookups. And so, you know, if they're homeless, sometimes they're off on, you know, it could be their own property or somebody else's property for all I know. And I don't think that they have the money or the means, because it takes a lot to get water hookup, right? I mean, you don't just go, hey, I'm out here on the highway I-29 and uh I need some water. Uh, you have to be somewhere, and so I think that it's a lack of all of those other domesticated things that we need, right, Bobby?

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Right. And it's it's you know, you talk about it being a choice and things. Well, you know, a lot of people do choose the RV life or the camper van life, but that's a choice for them. Like they they have the money for it, they have the resources available, they work in jobs in the towns that they land in type of thing. And so, you know, there is a difference between the two.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Okay. So when you talk about criminalizing homelessness, what does that encompass?

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Well, let's get down to it because just recently, um, in the summer of 2024, there was a Supreme Court ruling in the city of Grants Pass versus Johnson, and it emboldened communities across the country to consider or enact new measures that make sleeping in public spaces a legally punishable offense. So it effectively criminalizes homelessness. Now they're talking public spaces like parks, they're talking um, you know, city-owned property, they're talking down by the river, they're talking, you know, the wooded areas along the bike paths that the city owns. Uh, you know, a lot of places that you do find these homeless encampments or tent cities as they're called, um, they have actually they're starting to make it an actual punishable offense.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Now, before what they could punish them for was, you know, like loitering, um, you know, things like drunk in public or blocking the entry of uh business or harassing people or right, trespassing things like that.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Um, but this is actually this is a standalone thing where they can actually just come in and say, Hey, you don't have a permanent living situation. This is your tent, it's on a public property or even a private land property. Uh, now you are in violation of the law.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

So I rattled up a little bit on that particular case, and I and I understand, and I don't know if this has been settled yet or not. I didn't see any updates on this. But leading up to the case, apparently there were social scientists who previously published uh some research on homelessness and submitted an emicus chaos current brief, right? And that was against the criminalization of the homeless or the poverty stricken or those who, you know, are just without some type of actual home. And so, you know, it it was pretty comprehensive. And and they not only talked about the homelessness or the homeless, they also talked about squatters, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yes, yeah. And squatters, uh, by definition, are people who come into an abandoned building or an abandoned house and claim it as rightfully their own. So they move in. Sometimes they even have utilities hooked up in their name. Um, sometimes they have mail forwarded to that address so that they can claim what's called squatters' rights.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

So this is funny because I think it's two different um, I think it's two different laws and two different applications because I was watching some information on it was either YouTube or I don't even maybe it was Netflix, I don't really know, about squatters. And some of these people were gone for like a month because they were on a month cruise. Yeah. And they come back and people are living in their house.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, I mean, like and rent free. Yeah, here's the funny thing, you know, they actually do have squatters' rights at that point, and it is a whole legal battle just to get them out of your own damn house.

Squatters, Rights, And Evictions

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Well, I think they have to meet certain criteria, of course, on how much how if I remember right, how many personal items they had there or how much how much time they actually spent there. I don't, I don't really remember it. But I can tell you one thing. I know some people who have removed squatters, and there's a legal way, and then there's I'm gonna go get my brother-in-law Bubba and his friends, and we're gonna throw all your shit, all your stuff out on the front lawn. And that's how my folks do it. That's how my people do it. And uh, they don't wait for you know the cops to show up and say, well, you got 60 days, and then after that 60 days, you're gonna have to file a petition, and then the court will ask you for another 90 days. Then once that 90 days is up, then you're gonna have to prove this, this, and this. Uh, go get somebody and throw them out. You know, I mean, that's they can they can call the cops all they want.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

That's a good business opportunity. I I thought I heard something on the radio. No, seriously, I I heard something on the radio.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Bubin Brothers blowing.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Where that they advertised it, they would help um evict uh swatters or whatever, whatever the proper term was. But yeah, that was that was their whole business model.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Yeah, to just go in and throw them out.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Well, you know, I mean, people are getting tired of this crap. And don't get me wrong, I do feel for the homeless, absolutely. I think there's just so many circumstances associated with it. And criminalizing it, I mean, in my opinion, is really not something we need to be doing. But here's what happens the city starts putting together places where they can go, right? Especially when it's really cold or really hot. They'll go, okay, well, and and I will tell you, here in Georgia, when it got cold down here, which was it wasn't anything like the Midwest, they opened up the community center, right, Dr. Domain? Yeah, because we couldn't play pickleball. And so they opened it up to the homeless so that they had somewhere to go. Here's what's problematic these places are way out, they are not where these homeless people are. Homeless people are not hanging out out in the country, out off a highway 27. They're not hanging out in those particular areas. And so it's like, well, how do they get there? And so, you know, there are missions typically that are downtown that get overrun during those time periods, and and I get it, but you know, we just I don't think we do a really good job of planning for these types of things.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah, because I mean, you know, you have to look at resources for homeless people, and the resources are in the more crowded areas. You have the dollar stores, you have the gas stations, you have, you know, places like that that they need to go in and get things that they can get.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Usually bathrooms, right?

Shelters, Access Barriers, And Gaps

SPEAKER_00 14:44

You have bus routes you need to think about, you know, buses don't run out there, buses don't run from downtown out to the country and back again, you know, nice. Or in the suburbs. And it's great that they open, you know, the community centers and things when it's colder, but you know, what one of the big impacts of the homeless uh issue is the restrictions on the shelters. And so a few of these include time limits, like they're only allowed there for a certain amount of time, conditions on if it's a family shelter or not, or even gender identity, um, because there are some homeless shelters that will not allow uh homosexual individuals into their shelters. Some of them are only open during the night and are not open during the day. Uh, some of them have restrictions on pets and belongings, what you can bring in, what you can keep. And there are sobriety requirements and timing rules. Now, all of this, you know, combines not only to make it difficult to even get in the shelter, but to stay there long enough to secure a job, to secure housing, to secure the things that you need in order to move up that ladder. Because even to apply for, let's say, a low-rent house, you have to have an address and a phone that they can get a hold of you at. Right. You have to have a paper trail of where you've been, what you're doing. And if you stay at a shelter that's only open from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m., that's not gonna happen. You're not gonna have what you need because they're not gonna call from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. to talk to you.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

And it's that same, you know, that's that's a concern that I've always thought about when they're actually looking for a job. Because there are people out there that are homeless that say, seriously, I I want to work. And when someone gives them the opportunity, they truly show up. Here's the problem they can apply for a job and they have to put down a phone number, an email address, their second, you know, second in command, whoever, who their firstborn was. And they don't have a phone to call, they don't have an email address to contact them. And it really does make it difficult to get these folks off the streets. Now, listen, I'm not saying, you know, that they all want to work because they don't. And I'm not sure. And some can't. A lot can't. Some cannot. And some are there, you know, because they were forced out, some are there because they made poor decisions, some are there um because they're drug addicts or or alcohol, you know, because of addictions. Um, there's a lot of different reasons why they're there. Uh, but I think that ticketing them, jailing them, you know, doing these sweeps of the city and punishing these people who are homeless really doesn't address the actual issue.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Right. And let me ask you a question. Do you know nationwide around how many beds we are actually short to house the homeless every year? Do you know how many beds we're a number?

SPEAKER_02 18:15

A number? Yeah. Oh, all over the US?

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Oh man, it's gotta be high. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

So right now, uh, we are just around 200,000 beds short to house the homeless. And these when we're talking like, you know, no restriction beds. We're talking like you know, no sobriety restrictions, uh, you know, disability access types of things. Uh over 200,000. I mean, can you imagine that even if we filled all of the homeless shelters, there's still 200,000 people out there that have nowhere to go.

Work, Records, And Camp Sweeps

SPEAKER_02 18:53

You know, this kind of gets back to a lot of our other issues for psychology. And I I really do think we have a people problem, not only on the the side of the people who are homeless, because you know, some of them could have made a difference and some of them could have made different decisions, right? But on the people who are thinking that, hey, listen, if we raise money for the homeless, you know, a lot of times they never see that money. They never see any benefits to that. Maybe they see an extra blanket that's handed out to them, or maybe it puts another few meals on the on the road for a little bit. But we just, when it comes to charity, we just ignorantly give. And you kind of want to ask every time somebody asks you for money, where's it going? And how's it going to be handed out? And how are they gonna receive it? Now, now we experienced that firsthand, right? With your son, when when we had um when when he got shot two years ago, and you know, there were there were some charitable situations set up, you didn't see the money, and right and and people were you know giving money thinking you were gonna benefit, or the families that were affected. They didn't they didn't get the money. I and don't get me wrong, some of it started filtering through, but not like what was given. And so I think we have to ask that question, you know, about what we're doing and how we're doing it. And I don't know what the answer is. And and here's the other sad part, and I'm just gonna throw this in there is veterans who are homeless. Yes. If you lost your job and you lost your home legitimately because you are were injured, and I don't care if you were in the war or not, if you were injured and somehow you fell into the system and you lost everything, or you're a veteran, what do I want to say? It just breaks my heart. And then we have so many people who say, you know, we'll give to the veterans administration for the homeless, they don't see it, they're not seeing it.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

No, and their CEOs are making millions of dollars a year. And any charitable organization, I'm sorry, but any charitable organization looking at you, goodwill, your CEOs should not be making millions upon millions of dollars every year while your benefactors, the people who you are supposedly serving, are struggling and fighting for these benefits.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

I do know I've been an advocate and I've been very vocal about this to support local. I always have, always will support local, and I don't care if that's a business, whatever. You go to a VFW post, you go to a Legion Hall, you look at these charitable events that are put on by motorcyclists, the ones that we've been involved with, and we've been involved with a lot of them. That money actually does get seen by the people who need it. It's not going to some CEO, it's not going to some administration of 50 people who have to decide how they're going to disperse it and you know who have to pay the bills to keep the lights on in the offices while they're making decisions and they have to buy new computers so that they can track this money and now the money's gone. And so there's a penny on every dollar if that. Um that's not what's happening. And so, you know, Bobby, you've got more stats on this, and I don't want to lose track of that, but I would say if you have the opportunity to support those locally, do it.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah. Because they take the money. Where's the money go? They take the money and they literally put it in the hands of the people. There is no, you know, timeline of okay, well, we're gonna take two percent of every dollar. No, they say we're fundraising for this, we're we're fundraising for a handicap ramp for this person, we're fundraising for a new wheelchair for this person, and every penny that they raise is literally put into the hands of the people that they say that they're going to help. And they have proven it time and again.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

And the guys are volunteering, they volunteer, everybody volunteers their time. I mean, we volunteer to ride, we volunteered to work, we volunteered money, you know, we all volunteer, we aren't making money off of that. So if you want to make a difference, folks, that's where I my heart is, and and I I will say I think it's important to to support those locally. Now, one thing I did want to mention, you'll probably go into this, Bobby, but missed work and criminal records limit the pathways out of homelessness. And the problem is this criminal records, I get it, okay? If you were homeless, you'd be miserable too.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

I'm just I'm just saying, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive.

Hostile Design And Camping Bans

SPEAKER_02 23:47

People do desperate things, and I'm not advocating for them, please. I'm not advocating for a criminal, but desperate people do desperate things, but also you have to remember that when these people are living on the streets and they have no phone and they have no transportation, sometimes they miss work or sometimes they're late for work. And employers are not, you know, they're not happy with that. And I get it, I get it. Businesses have to run a business, they've got to be profitable. You and I don't work for a company because we got a pretty face. We work there to make them profitable. That's it. That's what you need to remember, folks. You are there to make those people profitable. And missed work, I get it. I mean, I understand, but you can certainly understand how this happens, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Right. And one big thing is, you know, when they do sweeps of homeless camps, um, a big thing is the property seizures that they do. So when they do sweeps of homeless camps, they and I've seen it firsthand. They walk into that homeless camp and they look at those people and they say, You have one hour to get all your shit and get out of here. One hour. Now, there are there are homeless camps that have been there for years. And so these people have established literal homes in these homeless camps. They come down and they say, You have an hour to get out of here and uh get everything you can. And oh, by the way, um we're not waiting. So if uh that shopping cart is all you have, pack up your shit in that shopping cart and get out of here. Well, here's the problem people have bicycles to get to work, they have clothing, they have you know, birth certificates, uh, documents, things like that. If they're not at that homeless camp when that warning is given, all of that is thrown away. The city bulldozes all of this and throws it away. These people don't have a chance. So, where are they actually going to take their stuff and go? Where where are they going? They're gonna put it in a shopping cart, they're gonna go. How far are they gonna be able to push that shopping cart? It's snowing, it's raining, it's cold, it's you know, uneven ground. You're not giving these people an opportunity to move the things that they need to move in order to continue to survive. Now, another thing that I do want to touch on, um, and I don't know if you've heard of this. There are these measures that the cities have taken in order to reduce um homeless people sleeping in certain places. Have you ever heard of any of these?

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Well, I know that I'll talk about Des Moines, Iowa. I know that there have been situations where they have, you know, the cops have come in and you're sleeping in somebody's doorway. And I said that before. If you're blocking somebody's doorway or blocking a business, yeah, you need to move, right? I I truly think that you need to move. If you're harassing people, you need to get there. So I have I have seen that happen.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Okay, so that's one thing. Um, but I'm talking bigger things. I'm talking, have you ever seen now that benches have armrests or dividers or use these slanting designs to that would prevent someone from laying down on the bench?

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Oh, it's called any airport.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Yeah, it's called an airport.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yeah, there was. But no, I understand that.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

No, I I never even thought about that. I never thought about that.

Costs, NIMBYism, And Housing

SPEAKER_00 27:21

All these public benches that are out in the parks and things like that have started to use these designs to prevent people from sleeping on them. They've also installed surface obstructions, including spikes, metal teeth, or uneven rubble placed in under bridges, in alcoves, and on ledges, so that people cannot lay there, sit there, rest there, things like that. Um, even something as simple as your landscaping. So the these companies are utilizing large boulders, planters, water sprinklers in order to deter these people from laying where they could, you know, rest. Yeah. And on top of that, I mean, you're looking at even the legal measures of the camping bans that prohibit sleeping or setting up temporary shelters in public parks, in vehicles. I don't know. I know that I have experienced this firsthand of sleeping in my vehicle. And next thing I know, there's a tap at the window and a light shining in my face saying, You can't park here. You need to move. Well, where am I gonna go? I have an empty tank of gas, and I thought the Walmart parking lot was gonna be okay because back then it was 24 hours. Yeah. Well, you can't sleep here, you need to go.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

I mean, it's the thing is it's such a yeah, I mean, it's such an adverse topic to even, you know, people are like, oh, you know, I'm just we gotta do something for the homeless, or you know, we've got to do something for the veterans. And yet we don't. I mean, they we think we are. We think we are, but we're not really because um I'm looking at Denver's uh there was a uh in the city of of well the cities from Spokane to Denver spending millions of dollars uh enforcing ordinances that criminalize homelessness. After spending about$20 million in 2015, um some San Francisco budget analysts concluded that the current enforcement measures are too expensive and limited their you know, had limited results. Now, that's probably true that it it did it did have limited results because just because you push them on or you cite cite them, now they they gotta come up with money that they didn't have in the first place, or you take them to jail, it's not helping. It does that doesn't help. And I'm not saying I know what the answer is, because I gotta be honest, somebody set up camp in my front yard, I'd be pissed. You know, I'd be mad too.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

But do you think our society focuses more on the suffering of the individual that's homeless, and for some reason we consider that to be bad, and that's another discussion? Or do you think our society focuses more on the inconvenience it causes our communities?

SPEAKER_02 30:25

That's a good qu that's a great question. That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

I think it focuses more on the inconvenience.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Yeah, I don't know. That's a great question, though, because you know, people don't want to see it, but they don't want to do anything. I'll give you a dollar, you know, I'll give you a couple bucks, you know, go do something. That doesn't do anything, folks.

Humanizing Poverty And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Yeah, and why why is it so bad? I mean, well, I think I mean one of the most famous honest people was Jesus during his time when he was out doing his ministry, and but it wasn't the most most well-lucked guy at the time. Not not to use that as an example, but it why is it bad? Why is we associate it we associate this with them being unproductive or not contributing to society. Maybe their contribution to society is just staying out of everyone's way and being on their own. No, I don't think advocating that people should be homeless. Yeah, but if they choose it, I mean I don't think that's it.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

I think what is negative is the fact that there's trash left behind by homeless people, and that's proven. Okay, we know that.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

There's trash left behind by people, period.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I mean, I've seen there's so much trash that's left behind on an environmental march downtown that it's like, what the heck were you guys thinking? There's straws and everything down here.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

So it's more of an inconvenience for everyone else. It's an inconvenience for everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Right. Yeah, I think I think I think that that's probably a fair statement. That, you know, well, there's they're dirty, they stink. Well, don't go around them, okay? Don't or offer them somewhere to shower, you know, or whatever. Or, you know, they're leaving drug paraphernalia, or, you know, whatever that reason is, or it doesn't look nice to have tents in my front lawn or around my area. It doesn't look good when there's people just laying out in the park. Is it more of an inconvenience for them, or is it in an inconvenience or something that we just really don't like as people who are not homeless? I don't know. That's a great question, Dr. Domain.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

I think I think a lot of times you have to follow the money. So the people who, you know, the businesses and things like that, the people who make the money control the narrative. They don't like it, they don't want to see it, they don't want their workers and clients to see it as they walk in their building. So what do they do? They call the police, they say, This is bad for my business. Get them out of here. And these are the same people who go home in their neighborhoods and fight when there is affordable housing trying to be built a few blocks from them because it will bring down the the property. The property, it'll bring it'll bring crime, it'll bring dirtiness. Well, you can't have it both ways. Either you're willing to step up and say, you know what? I am absolutely in my community willing to fight for this low-income housing so that it gets people off the streets, it gives it gives people a chance to get up if they want to and do what they need to do, or you can deal with the homelessness. I mean, you can you can't have it both ways because it's the same people fighting that that's fighting of having you know somebody standing on the corner of their building, not bothering anybody, just trying to rest.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yeah. I mean, we don't have the answers. We just wanted to talk about it today and you know, just bring it to people's attention, right, Bobby? That you know, absolutely, all of these people are not criminals, and a lot of them really are on the streets um because they've lost their jobs or they've lost their homes or you know, they've had some medical condition, and it's just not easy to support yourself. It it that does happen. They're not every single one of them are not druggies, okay? Let's just say that. That and every single one of them are not willing to work. There's a lot of them out there that do want to work if they were given the opportunity to work. And I I like I said, we don't have the answers, but when you're giving money for these things to be fixed, think about where that money's going and if it ever reaches them. And if you can do something to help them, my advice, and this is just me, is to give locally.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

And one thing you need to remember is you know, statistics say that over 40% of the unhoused homeless population actually do have jobs, they're actually out there working, and they still can't afford somewhere to live, still cannot afford somewhere to live because of the housing crisis, the housing markets, the the requirements of some of these, you know, apartments and things like that, that you make so much a month. Over 40% of those people have jobs, yeah. They just can't make it.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Yeah, and it it it's it's sad that that's happening in the United States, the richest country in the world, and the most it's the greatest country in the world, it's the richest country in the world, and yet we have this type of poverty and we're criminalizing this poverty. So, Bobby, what are your last what's your last words for this podcast now that you brought us all down?

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Hey, listen, all I can say is, you know, a lot of us are one paycheck away from being that person.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

So we need to remember that, we need to humble ourselves, and we need to understand that not everybody's story is our story. That doesn't mean we get to judge it.

Credits And Calls To Connect

SPEAKER_02 36:08

That's right. Be kind, be kind, love, help where you can. You know, we aren't here just for us, we are here to help each other. And yeah, don't judge. You know, I just want to say this real quick before we end. I remember at one point you girls needed some help. And I wasn't in a position to really help you. I was single and and you girls were out on your own. And I think it was you, Bobby, couldn't pay your light bill. And uh I contacted the church, and you were making some bad decisions at that time. And I had said to the pastor, he said, Listen, we, you know, I've talked to our youth group and they're gonna pay your daughter's bill. And I said, Listen, I'm sorry, you know, she's she's just made some bad financial decisions. And he said, you know what? We are not here to judge. We prayed about it, we were we were asked for this money to help her, and we're gonna help her. And I thought, thank you. You know, it was like they didn't want to hear, you know, your poor decision making, that you had poor decision-making skills. So I think that's how you have to give. You have to give out of the kindness of your heart, not worrying about, you know, where's that money gonna go? If you can help somebody today and go buy them a meal, go buy them a meal. I mean, if you can do it, do it. And keep your mouth shut about it. If you want to know how that reads, check the Bible because it talks about keeping your mouth shut and not boasting about what you give away. So anyway, go on, Bobby.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Hey, listen, I think that that is all the educational absurdity and insanity that we do have for today. But listen, we do appreciate you joining us here at the Rabbit Run Studio. Uh, we'd really appreciate if you went on our official Facebook page and followed us or, you know, on Spotify, iHeartRadio, whatever you guys listen to, there's that follow button. Share us with everybody you know, be like, hey, listen to these two idiots for a little bit. You'll laugh. And hey, listen, if you have positive feedback, if there's a topic or a question you want to discuss, drop us a short email at boomerandengenxer at gmail.com. And if you have hate mail, well, I mean, I don't even know where to put that anymore because mailboxes.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

We need a lot of stuff too. We don't know where to mail it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

So, hey, until next week, I'm Bobby Joy. And I'm Jane Burt. And you're stuck with us. Peace out later.