Sarah Beth Durst's bestselling tales of found family

To celebrate our 2nd anniversary in September, we hosted bestselling fantasy author Sarah Beth Durst in a local brewery, Little Red Barn Brewers, where we talked about her beautiful cozy fantasy books, The Spellshop and The Enchanted Greenhouse. Here is that wonderful conversation!

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Transcript

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I feel like what you are creating is a home for your characters everyone has to in both of these books they have come from chaos whatever that chaos was and they're finding a home would you hundred percent yes I'm like that's that's it that's what I'm doing haha yeah that is that is exactly it and the idea that everyone deserves a home and the idea that maybe your home isn't the first place you come to maybe your family is isn't the one that you were born to maybe it's the one you find later and that that is just as valid and as important as beautiful as anything else and that there are people out there that will make you more of you and that will see the goodness inside of you as you are that you don't have to be someone else welcome to the Curious Cat Bookshop Podcast the podcast of the independent bookstore of Winsted, Connecticut creating a literary community in Northwest Connecticut bringing our local authors to the world and the world to our community in Northwest Connecticut welcome to the Curious Cat Bookshop Podcast and thank you so much to Little Red Barn for hosting us I can see that many of you have already ordered drinks or food so thank you so much for supporting them for allowing us to do this recording here and welcome to Sarah Beth Durst! hi I'm Stacy Whitman and I'm the owner of the Curious Cat Bookshop and today we're celebrating our second anniversary here in Winsted Yay so thanks for celebrating with us and we're gonna dive right into our conversation with Sarah we're gonna talk about these books we're gonna talk about your whole career of course and then we'll leave about 15 minutes at the end for questions because I know a lot of you have read all the books or as many of the books as possible so I know you're gonna have questions so we will be passing the mic around at the end but there will be a no spoilers policy because a lot of people have not read all the books so we'll hint at things so that you'll be interested to read the books if you haven't yet okay so here we go all right so um I'm trying to resist the urge to make everyone sing happy bookoversary hahaha can we do it you wanna do it we're doing it okay fine happy bookoversary to you happy book of versary to you happy book of Versary Stacy and Curious Cat Book Shop happy book of versary to you thank you OK Yay so um oh I forgot you're recording and I'm singing into a camera it is totally totally fine and now I'm going to be introducing you cool you guys want to sing for me Sarah Beth Durst is the New York Times and US Today USA Today best selling author of it's got to be more than 25 books at this point the I bought copy just in case your website house was 30 yeah so yeah so for the next time I'm gonna change it to over 30 for adults teens and kids including including our cozy fantasy that we're talking about today The Spellshop and The Enchanted Greenhouse she's been awarded the American Library Association's Alex Award which is an award for books that are published for adults that have great appeal for teens and the Mythopoeic Fantasy Award and several of her books have been optioned for film and TV including Drink, Slay, Love which I did not know that's that's a deep cut right at this point and we're gonna talk about this um which was made into a TV movie I didn't so it's already done yeah that was cool it's on the iTunes wow, that got very loud and was a question on jeopardy yeah that was really cool too and unexpected so she lives in Stony Brook, New York, with her husband her children and her ill-mannered cat which we are very happy about yes so welcome Sarah Beth thank you so much and so Sarah Sarah and I have known each other since way back I was at Wizards of the Coast and you were just publishing your very first YA novel that is right and you were friends with an author of mine that I was publishing back in like 07 yeah Tiffany Trent we knew each other on Livejournal anybody remember Livejournal? oh let's I don't know which of us is like like her temper how is our sound like are we like you know loud enough not loud too loud am I too close to this this is our backup mic but we might have to turn it off um but let's start with the book in question the books in question because they are cozy fantasy which wasn't even a thing until a few years ago right well the seeds were always there we've always had optimistic fantasy and then Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones that's definitely cozy summon the keeper by Tanya Huff um Robert McKinley's beauty especially when you go into the books the library that the Beast has and he's got the rolling ladder that everyone wants oh yeah yeah oh yeah and and Robin McKinley did it before beauty and the Beast did the Disney thing I'm just happy to have as many libraries like that as possible absolutely um but I think you started writing The Spellshop in 2020 right specifically March 2020 was when The Spellshop was born you may recall the March 2020 was a special time in the world yeah I just I wanted to write a nice book I found myself when when the world fell apart quite so dramatically retreating into all of those comfort reads that I loved like Diana Wynne Jones and Rob McKinley and Tamora Pierce and Anne Mccaffrey and you like me where you're just like I can't read and then suddenly you were able to read by going back to the cozies yeah I like the cozy read for you gentle books and I said I want I want to do this I need to write a book that that brings me joy and that's exactly what I did I didn't OK normally when I write a book I start with you know an idea a vague clue what I'm gonna write about like maybe a character or something nothing when I started Spellshop just a vibe I knew how I wanted the reader to feel I wanted the reader to feel hugged I wanted the reader to feel like they're sitting next to a friend with the front arm around them saying everything's gonna be OK so I sat down my computer brought up a word document type things that make me happy and just make a really big list and that's where it was raindrops on roses ha ha ha ha whiskers on kittens it's pretty much that except mine were like succulent sentient succulents ha ha ha raspberry jam and like a lot of food like food was very key with that list ha ha ha food okay that is a really interesting thing for us to talk about because food in fantasy has a long tradition sad okay how many of you get really hungry when you when you read fantasy same I mean I I I wanna say that reading Tolkien is kind of a food tour of Middle Earth Redwall how about Redwall oh banquets galore with your mice friends you could do an entire thesis on food in fantasy for children and I'm sure that they've been done it's so important like it's it's a major part of the theme of home yeah and I think that's actually really interesting that you're doing that in The Spellshop as well like I feel like what you are creating is a home for your characters everyone has to in both of these books they have come from chaos whatever that chaos was and they're finding a home would you hundred percent yes I'm like that's that's it that's what I'm doing haha yeah that is that is exactly it and the idea that everyone deserves a home and the idea that maybe your home isn't the first place you come to maybe your family is isn't the one that you were born to maybe it's the one you find later and that that is just as valid and as important as beautiful as anything else and that there are people out there that will make you more of you um and that will see the goodness inside of you as you are that you don't have to be someone else so the books are very much very much about healing and that you can start over and that you can find joy in an ordinary life and said they had plants and and many many plants like an excessive number of plants so you've written books for middle grade I don't think you've done a picture book yet right I've done one picture book Roar and Sparkles Go to School oh see she's even she's even done books for very young kids it actually came out the same year as the Queen of blood which was a very different field so you've got books for younger kids you've got books for you know middle grade a lot of ya especially early on during slay love was vampires of course and a were-unicorn I forgot about that! and now adults and and not just now cause Queen of was Queen of Blood your first adult book? my first adult book was part one called The Lost which is coming out in a new edition yeah right extremely excited in November a new updated edition of the lost is coming out I got to revisit the story and give it the ending that I always wanted it to have and I'm just so thrilled that I got to to go back to it and that's amazing so yeah so you've written for all of these age groups I'm not gonna ask you what your favorite age group to write is but I want to hear what your favorite thing about each age group is yeah I've probably written how about an equivalent number of each in each sort of set middle grade ya adult although I think it's varying more it's worn more adults now if you count them up I don't even count them whatever wasn't what you asked haha I love running all of them I'm glad you could ask me to choose because I really do I love I just love story and what age group is not something I think so much about I don't vary my style or my technique or my process oh there's a puppy here hi puppy um sorry I'm also easily distracted which is why why I outline my books um I approach it by what kind of journey the character is going on for a middle grade it's that first step outside your house your first adventure your first friendship your first encounter with a unicorn or a dragon that first wonder if I'm writing about that I'm gonna be seeing the story through the eyes of a 12 year old and it's gonna come out middle grade if I'm writing about the moment where you're discovering who you are and defining yourself independently from everything that's come before your family your your friends your everybody that's influenced you and grabbing your own agency for the first time you're gonna be 16 you're probably gonna save the world and get your own magic pony or whatever and it's why I for adults it's if I'm writing about starting over or loss or finding joy for a second time or redefining yourself then it's gonna be adult who's gonna come out that way and those are the things that the things I love about each are exactly that is getting to explore those different stages of of adventure of of finding magic um I love with middle grade that you can be silly and serious in the same breath I love with ya that you can totally save the world even though you're only 16 I love with adults okay one of the best things about writing for an adult is that you can mess with the readers because adult readers okay wait what unlike middle grade readers are not coming to you for the first time they are coming to you with a wealth of baggage of all of the books that they've read before all of the stories they've absorbed before they're coming with expectations and the most fun thing is that you can either fulfill that or subvert it you get to stand on the shoulders of all the stories that have come before that's wonderful I love thinking about it that way and let's take a step back because I'm thinking about cozy fantasy and what that means for the times that we live with in we're feeling externally turbulent whether we're talking about the pandemic or we're talking about you know whatever kind of politics that are going on locally or nationally or internationally I find that so often like if you look back at the Great Depression at the movies that were popular you know Fred Astaire Ginger Rogers and it was complete escapism from I mean there were a few very realistic stories coming out during that time I mean that was when the grapes of wrath right was written obviously if people were exploring then that at the same time but what about something like cozy fantasy helps us through hard times people use the word escape as if it's something like luxurious like it's this extra thing added on and I actually think it's really essential I think that you can't just keep hurling yourself against a brick wall all of the time you have to take a step back and that's what enables you to go back out there and face the world again taking that deep breath and sometimes we don't allow ourselves to do that'cause it's a guilty pleasure or something we think we need to deny ourselves in order to get through the next thing when in reality we can't get through the next thing until we take that time to take a breath and remember why we're fighting and I think that's what what cozy fantasy is for it's for that deep breath it's so that you have a sanctuary you can go to hang out with your talking plants and then come back to the world feeling stronger um that's what that's what I hope it does I hope it gives people a chance to you know that that line in Lord of the rings with with Sam going remember the good things in the world that's what cozy is is for it's to remind you that it's good to sit down and eat some jam it's good to have a friend to talk to it's good to look at the sunrise and the sunset and remember why when was it all for yeah when it's all for exactly that's wonderful I love thinking about it that way many many people one reader in particular have questions and questions and questions one of which was how much do you bake and how much do you garden and um now the question of honey cakes comes up so let's just rehash that conversation from earlier because I'm sure many people wonder do you have a honey cake recipe no okay here's the thing I love writing it makes me happy it's what I do every day I love stringing sentences together I have absolutely no other skills whatsoever I I like to eat so I have tried baking but I have yet to make a baguette that doesn't feel like a baseball bat I tried making honey cakes it did not go well so the honey cake in the enchanted greenhouse which is a very important element in it is kind of like Turkish Delight and Lion Witch in the wardrobe like don't actually eat my honey cake but like imagine it as fluffy and golden like the sunrise cause that's what I pictured when I wrote it but like I'd yeah um excuse me I love talking with fantasy writer writers about their world building and world building now you've got sentient plants you've got um a lot of different kinds of people um different species of people you've got blue and purple people in this world talk to us about your process how do you decide how you're gonna people your world how do you decide what kind of magical creatures that you're gonna create I write by what I call the rule of awesome you make one decision and then you ask yourself given that that is true what is the most awesome thing that also has to be true I build entire plots I build entire worlds I build entire scenes using the rule of awesome it makes it really fun highly recommend I like that with world building specifically I've been world building my entire life when I decided I wanted to be a writer I was 10 years old before that point I just didn't know like humans wrote books I just thought they like poof magically appeared on the shelves you know um but once I decided I want to be a writer I didn't know where to start I never met a writer never seen anybody do it had no clue so what I decided the very first step to becoming a writer was was to gather all the scrap paper in the house tape it together and draw a huge fantasy world and then people it with people with magical powers and talking animal sidekicks and that's how I started I love it so I've been doing this a long time and generally when I world build I do it just by asking questions now once I made the decision to include a sentient spider plant then the next question is okay how does he move how does he do what sort of world what does he do where did he come from you know you just keep asking questions and then you grow a world that is organic because each of the pieces hinge on the fire decisions that's definitely true and also I have to say if you haven't listened to the audiobook of The Spellshop the the narrator does such an amazing job with Kaz her name's Caitlin Davies and she also does the audiobook narration for The Enchanted Greenhouse as well yeah it's brilliant and Libra FM is the place to get it um haha uh let's see here let's talk about that cover art I love my cover artist her name is Lulu Chen and she is brilliant it's like she looked into my mind like people ask me like oh how did you what was your involvement in covering this is my involvement Lulu Chen sends a picture and I go that's beautiful so yeah that's it well and actually let's back up a bit because a lot of people here might not know how it works with your cover art because oftentimes authors don't even have any say it's like hey what do you think I hope you love it yeah I used to when I first started out I used to make my husband open those emails so I would he can tell me whether I should brace myself or not because usually and you've at this point gone through a whole like four or five generations of different like trends of covers yes yes there are it's funny with it with with trends but I feel so lucky with these covers because it's gorgeous they so perfectly match what I envisioned and the cover the cover is the invitation the cover is the promise of what kind of journey you're gonna go on so having it match was so very important to me I did actually do my boards like I guess I just didn't say that yeah it's beautiful but like the work is all done by the artist um but I this so perfectly match what I envisioned for did you have a chance to tell your editor this is what I'm thinking like for like vibes or anything like that yes I sent on a mood board my my Pinterest like now recommends many many cottages at me and I I'm fine with that haha so yeah because I did have the feel that I wanted I wanted everyone to feel welcome everyone to come in and and have some jam and some hot chocolate or tea or coffee whatever you prefer and hang out with with plants and my horses and my cats and tiny dragons and so forth and you just just be so the the cover art has been a wonderful thing and that it is making the promise that that I wanted it tonight that's wonderful um one of our readers noted that you've got seamless transitions between and wanted to know if it was magic do you write by magic? all writing is magic well my cat writes about every other paragraph so there's that writing is magic because you're bringing to life something that didn't exist before you're trying to to cast a spell to create this this moment of shared dream between you and somebody that you'll never meet surely through the letters in the page but it's an understandable magic I mean it's it's it's like the... Tiffany Aching--it's like it's just cause you know how it's done doesn't mean it's not magic I love that description as shared dream because so often I'm seeing all this AI stuff right now of you know it'll do the work for you and I think the the work of the writing and publishing process is exactly what you're talking about it is a human to human yeah contact of a shared dream hundred percent I mean that's what that's what makes fiction so wonderful and nonfiction has a place yeah yeah I feel like nonfiction that's lovely whatever um but no offense thanks non fiction but non fiction is designed to talk head to head right which is important fiction is designed to talk heart to heart no everybody has those books that you read when you're little where the characters just stick to your heart they like pieces of them get stuck to the insides of your soul and you carry them around with you the entire rest of your life like that connection with people that came before with other people that are living other lives that have other dreams I mean Fiction's the extreme sport of empathy you know we're asking you to put yourself in the shoes of this blue person whose best friends are the talking plant and invite them into your heart and if you can do that oh maybe you can love anybody I love that so let's talk about your writing process because I'm sure that when we're talking about cozy fiction many people are thinking oh you must write in a cozy sweater with a hot chocolate next to a fire what does your writing process look like physically like the space that you're writing in dude like like there's a lot of hot chocolate in my process no fire because like as we said I have no actual skills I would probably burn the house down so but a lot of hot chocolate and some people are like oh fancy I like no just like Swiss Miss from Costco haha cause I go through it in such bulk haha but yeah I mean I have I write at my desk I used to always write on a laptop because I thought writers were supposed to be portable and I should be writing on mountain tops and cafes but like you know mountain tops have like and then ergonomics got away right I mean yeah mountain tops have like bugs and glare and cafes have like other people talking that I totally eavesdrop on and so like that doesn't work I just write it my desk and I've got like huge stacks of books around me because like the shelves are overflowing and many knick knacks that make me happy of things is that that you know make me think of writing like little dragons and so forth and hot chocolate next to me and it's right in the center of our house so I can always be a part of life at the same time as writing and I think that actually is what my process is to intertwine writing with life I don't have set writing times I don't have set writing days every day is a writing time every time my hands are free is a writing time now I I wake up I go write a little I get dressed I eat some breakfast I write some more I put in some laundry I write some more I take a walk I write some more so writing is interwoven in my day which okay the negative way of saying that is I have zero work life balance but I love it because it keeps story a part of my day a part of my breathing I'm always at least partially in these worlds that I love and it quite works for me it it sounds like you're living my childhood dream because I was one of those dreamy girls who was like constantly making up stories in my head usually it for me it involved the Dukes of Hazzard adopting me mine were always dragons like always but um so earlier today we were somebody asked you about writer's block yes and I thought that you had some really interesting things to say for anybody in the audience who might be dealing with their own writer's block yeah okay so writer's block actually a thing there are two types of writers block one is when your subconscious is telling you that you've done something horribly wrong in your story and you need to stop right now and rethink your life the other is when that little voice inside your head is going you're not good enough it's not good enough the problem is that you can't tell which one it is whether it's a problem in the story or problem just in your brain but the good news is that it doesn't matter which one's causing it because the solution is the same um with the caveat that every writer is different every brain is different if this doesn't work for you it's okay what works for me is just to write more the only way out is through now so I will lie to myself I will open up a new word document and say this is not going in the story this is not no one's ever gonna see this I'm just playing we're gonna audition these characters we're gonna audition the singing we're just gonna play and just get the words flowing and yes maybe none of that ends in the final story but there might be one sentence there that's like oh that's what I was trying to say that's what the story is that's where I need to go back to so for me writing unlocks writing writing begets writing and it and with the play stuff have you ever had something come out of it that didn't go into that book but ended up in another book oh yeah all the time yes save all your writing never delete anything back everything up like all the time it's all writing it's all fodder for the the time is ever wasted because you're always just learning something about yourself and one of the things that I've discovered through writing like 30 books is that the process of writing books reveals the things that you're obsessed with apparently I'm obsessed with things talking that should not talk that's one of my main thing my other main thing that I'm obsessed with is hope all of my books are about hope at the core um and my other obsession is different ways to define strength what it means to be strong particularly what it means to be a strong woman or a strong girl in The Spellshop and Enchanted Greenhouse and the other books in this world there shall be more yay strength is is kindness connection with others is strength it is not a weakness to care that is what enables you to save yourself and your world by connecting with others and making your little corner of the world better I love that and that is all the questions that I have but I think a few of you might have some questions Ivy are you in the back there can I hand the mic to you for people to ask questions keeping in mind that I only know things about rain and bugs that little Mike is for the podcast the Big Mike is for us to hear you raise hands over there this one so I would like to know what your ill mannered cat's name is and your adoption story with ill mannered cat haha thanks for asking her name is Gwen sometimes we call her Gwenna Fur um she came with that name and we didn't want to like you know we wanted to honor her heritage by keeping her original name um also we couldn't think of anything I'm the person that named two cats fluffy when I was growing up so I cannot be given that responsibility we got her from a shelter and like the interview process was the most intense thing I have ever gone through like they came to our house they made us cut they called the vet they like interviewed people and I was so nervous that we wouldn't get this cat and just like I burst into tears when the cat like was in my hands and so we got her when she was a kitten she was you know kitten size so I put her right here on my shoulder like curled against my neck so I'm like oh that's so cute you can do that with a kitten and when she grows she'll transition to my lap she did not no no no so I write most of my books with this like large cat in front of my face like hitting the screen and there's so much fur in my keyboard like wait wait too much too much fur um so I think she's wonderful and not ill mannered at all except you know when we disobey her oh and Emerald and the Enchanted Greenhouse is modeled after Glenn hi I'm in the middle of finishing a book and I'm gonna start writing OK I was wondering if you had any advice for because obviously been through it a long time ago but do you have any advice do you have any advice you know kind of emotionally going through that process so much to say yeah um stubbornness I think will get you through it starting the next book oh it's having fun with its friends this is me making terrible noises sorry hahaha writing the next book believing in your story and yourself um I think the thing to remember is that only you can tell your stories and if you don't no one else will now there are countless stories inside of each of us and you are the only only ones that can let them out so I think don't worry so much about what the readers are gonna think if you love it there's gonna be people out there that love it too um in more practical terms with the whole querying process there is a lot of luck involved sorry right there right there there's a sweet spot there's there's a lot of luck involved but here's the thing you can make your luck by continuing to write and telling the stories that that are in your heart that you that you want to do it I mean it's like okay you're trying to get hit by lightning right so you need to go and dance in a thunderstorm in a field and that will increase your don't literally do this anyone just metaphorically dance with that lightning so you know keep trying once you finish this book and send it out don't think about it write the next book and then write the next book and write the net that's what I did it's not necessarily the quickest path sometimes it can be but it's satisfying because you get to tell your stories so it's worth it can you hear me yes what advice would you have for somebody who is not a writer and has not ever written anything I mean I write all the time for work but that's different who is old and terrified to start chocolate helps a lot like a good stash of chocolate um tell yourself that no one is going to read it and then just do it um the key is to turn off that little voice that everyone has inside their brain that's telling you oh it's not original enough I'm not good enough whatever that that that little voice is absolutely useless in the in the beginning um you can bring that out later when you're editing that's fine but put it away for now I write to music because I find that little voice gets distracted and goes singing off to the music and I can get work done um one thing I'd recommend in the beginning is just like tell yourself no one's gonna see this do stream of conscious writing for a set amount of time like 10 minutes set the little alarm on your phone write for 10 minutes without stopping without going back without editing and just get the words flowing once you get the words flowing more will come however if you start out saying I wanna write a book exactly like that one sitting on my shelf you're setting yourself up for like being very sad because that book has been through so much to get to that stage you have to let yourself write terribly first like dribble like no verbs at all just the most self indulgent whatever just let the words flow cause then then once the words are there that's when the magic actually happens because you have something to sculpt you have something to to make it beautiful so that first draft that first spilling out yeah that can be kind of painful um because it's never gonna match what's in your head but once you get it out then it can only get better and that part's really fun and I would like to add to that anyone that is thinking about writing even if you don't plan to show it to anyone or want to get published or anything like that I really really recommend it cause making up people and places that don't exist is one of the joys of being human we can do that we can fall in love with the imaginary so you should give yourself permission to to make your own imaginary and love it even if you never show anyone okay sorry next question hi I just want to say thanks for coming out this is a really cool experience and it's cool to like I hear how you speak and how I feel that in your books like it really comes through they are very me yeah it's really really inspirational and then I also wanted to ask um you mentioned earlier about um the books you read as a kid and how they shaped you and you bring that with you along the way I was curious what books and characters and like arcs have you brought along your way as you kind of go through your life oh I love that question I mean definitely probably the most foundational book that I read was Alana by Tamora Pierce that's a good one too oh yeah oh it's so good so for those of you who haven't read it this is about a book about a girl who wants to become a knight in a land where only boys can become knights and I just have this crystal clear memory of closing that book and thinking to myself if Alana can become a knight I can become a writer it's just I've always loved those books that makes you feel stronger I mean fantasy literature is a literature of hope and empowerment that's what it's for it's to remind you about okay not grimdark grimdark is depressing it's got its place too whatever yeah we love it um but fantasy can be that connection with the joyful connection with others connection with what we could be if we strive for it wait I got distracted where do we start your what was my oh books books books yes so yeah Tamora Pierce um Robin McKinley's beauty especially her library um Blue Sword also Robin McKinley 'cause like cool sword um really and cool force like honestly not too much deeper than that um Diana Wynne Jones Howl Moving Castle and Calcifer travels with me while Mag from a wrinkle in time first girl Amber Red was allowed to be angry um and uh yeah I was just thinking my shelves it makes me want to reread them all make me Happy Dark is rising I was so sad on my 11th birthday when nobody showed up and said you are the seeker and I must find the signs like hahaha I missed out I would be good at it right no I would just I would last like five seconds in most fantasy stories Spellshop world I could live Queen of blood I'd be dead like five seconds but yeah one last question I have noticed when people raise hands for questions it's always like the opposite side that does so that whoever has a microphone is like hello I was curious how you come up with your character names cause they're all very unique and also the creatures um your horses my favorite cloud bears like what inspires you to create these beautiful characters I don't know hahaha they're just in there I'm actually really not good at names sometimes I will like steal them from people when they come to get book signed I'm like I like your name hahaha um I just you know some character names fit right away and some I will have a list of just syllables I've shoved together like hundreds long until I find the one that just feels right and I don't have a really good answer but other than like yeah you seal like a Keila you seal like a Terelu and I don't know why and that is the thing that came to mind when you said you were terrible at naming cats I'm like how do you name your characters hahaha well they are secretly all fluffy um no hahaha when I first start out sometimes we just got X y and Z that we hang out with for a while until I find who they really are and get their names to them um I mean they have to be sometimes people ask me like do I base my characters off of real people I know or or TV stars or whatever and I'm like no they have to feel real to me they have to feel I mean my job is to really literally create imaginary friends and hang out with them all day um so finding their name it needs to feel like them so sometimes it takes a long time sometimes I know instantly as far as the creature that's really just like who do I want to hang out with right now I mean as a kid I spent okay I spent the whole childhood reading but every once in a while my parents were like child you need fresh air go um and then I would go to the woods behind my house and search for a dragon's egg didn't find them had to write books so that's where the characters come from uh a wish fulfillment now I want magic in the world I'm gonna put it there if no one else will I love that and we can end on that note because that is the perfect way to end um but before we go I wanna hear the title of the next book and you have to go look up the the cover of the next book because it's amazing the next book is called sea of charms and where can people find you online at sarahbethdurst.com@sarahbethdurst on every social media I'm mostly on Instagram but I'm also on Facebook and Bluesky and Threads and TikTok and like yeah I'm very findable so and please do subscribe to our podcast we're on YouTube and all your audio podcast platforms it's Curious Cat Bookshop Podcast and if you have not had your books signed yet come on up afterward and Sarah will sign them and thank you for coming today!