How I'm refining my bookstore's business systems to survive our volatile times

When times are tough, how does a small business get the information they need to adapt, survive, and even thrive? For me, the answer is in refining my systems and getting greater clarity on where I'm spending money, when the bills are coming due, and what system is the single source of truth for my business's information. It also helps that consolidating my systems into one CRM like Zoho has allowed me to save money on previous systems. 

Join our membership--we have a book box and other perks--by going to https://withfriends.co/the_curious_cat_bookshop/join?utm_campaign=wf-share. April 2026's theme for the adult box (Tabitha Box) is Appalachian Cottagecore Fantasy. 

Other Curious Cat Bookshop podcast episodes mentioned in the episode: 

Talking about our POS system and starting a bookstore in general: https://youtu.be/no8iBFfUm00 

Martha Brockenbrough and Lori Fena discuss generative AI's impact on copyright, the publishing industry, and more: https://youtu.be/39LVh2T3HkY 

Bonus: another episode in which I mention these things at least tangentially: Six Things I'd Do Differently: https://youtu.be/ZShB3jnMP3o 

Transcript

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the reality is I care about making money so that I can live I'm not I'm not out here to like make a million dollars it'd be lovely to be able to afford all my medical bills and all my dental bills and my you know living expenses and all that and still have money left over to put toward good causes but I think most of us are in the same boat of we just wanna do good in the world while we're here and I feel like bookstores are major bastion of being able to do that so the more that I can implement these systems to help me along and let you know about them and hopefully that they are useful to you I'm gonna share them welcome to The Curious Cat Bookshop Podcast the podcast of the independent bookstore of Winsted, Connecticut creating a literary community in Northwest Connecticut bringing our local authors to the world and the world to our community in Northwest Connecticut hello and welcome to season 2 of the Curious Cat Bookshop podcast it's taking me a little bit more time than I expected to be able to get back into the next season after ending our first season at the end of 2025 because I've been sick since New Year's Eve and finally mostly better I did do that kind of bonus episode in February where I barely had a voice but kind of had one but I'm really excited about this new season today we're talking about systems that you need as a small business owner particularly as a bookstore owner I've talked about some of those systems before particularly point of sales systems and this is the first time I've done this so I'm hoping that right here you will be able to see the link to that episode if you're watching this on YouTube this season we're gonna be talking about today we're talking about systems but this season we're gonna be talking about again the whole life of a book including the writing part of it we're gonna be talking to various authors next month in April we're going to have Lindsay Denninger here to talk about her book that delves into the cultural impact of Gossip Girl and we'll be taping that and that will go up on the podcast when that's over and then we're talking to Danny Adlerman who is my former colleague from Lee & Low he has been working in book production for more than 30 years and he has such a wealth of information about the physical making of a book he can tell you about working with printing presses he can tell you about paper shortages and choosing paper he is the guy who we would always go to and say Danny I want my book to physically look like this how do I accomplish that so we're gonna talk with Danny about all those physical aspects of making a book I know that a lot of self published authors just don't have the experience to know what goes into that physical making of a book so it's gonna be really fascinating if you're a self published author to be talking to him and I think that anybody who like I just listened to a Planet Money podcast episode on the making of their book I highly recommend that you go pop by and last week's episode was on how they went from project proposal to a book auction with their agents and next week as of the taping of this they're going to be talking about the editorial process so I recommend that you go and listen to that if you don't know anything about the publishing process at a publishing house especially in nonfiction because it's a little bit different from fiction and they they sold their book on proposal and now they've got to write the book most of the time in fiction you better write the book first if you're a debut author but I highly recommend that I've also done at least one episode I think maybe two on the submission to editorial to publication process but I'm gonna be diving a little bit more deeply into that this season because I'm seeing a lot of people particularly with AI blow-ups that have happened in books being pulled it's more than one but the one that everybody's talking about at least on threads this week was shy girl future Stacy here apparently I forgot to finish that sentence that I am going to be diving deeper into the editorial process how editors work what they do when they work with an author because with these AI blow-ups there's a really weird conversation going on on threads or at least there was at the time that I filmed this that people thought that editors edit with AI and that editors completely rewrite your book and that is just not how it works and so I'm going to be talking about that this season a little bit more in depth just wanted to clarify that as I was editing because I realized I never came back to my point there oh my gosh we are gonna be talking about AI as well because there are so many books out there this year I was just looking at a PW article about the number of books that were published in 2025 was more than 4 million here we go the number of books published in the US in 2025 with ISBN numbers jumped 32.5% over 2024 to more than 4 million books according to statistics compiled by Bowker of those traditionally published books rose 6.6% from 602,428 in 2024 to 642,242 so what that means is that there are millions of books out there being published but I would say at least a million if not more of them are AI slop they're just dreck and if you're using AI in any way to write your book we're gonna discuss that more in depth to to figure out what we mean by AI and what I mean by that is generative AI because there are copyright issues you cannot copyright a book written by AI because you didn't write it somebody else did because those generative models are stealing the content from authors who have published books multiple lawsuits about this if you want to know more we will go into it later this season but also check out this conversation that we had last year with Martha Brockenbrough and Lori Fena in which we talked about the difference between generative AI and machine learning and the ethics of using AI and there's a golf place next door so you might hear slams from time to time but the ethics of using AI in writing it's it's just don't do it don't do it you will need to if you are trying to get traditionally published by any reputable publisher there will be a clause in your contract that says you are required to let them know if you've used AI to create the book because that means they cannot copyright it in your name and that throws some major question marks into whether anybody should be able to make money on this speaking of money I mean also the authors who have been stolen from and the artists who have been stolen from should be compensated for that but that is all stuff that we're gonna be talking about later this season we're also gonna be talking with Elise McMullen-Ciotti she's my colleague that I trained actually as an editor at Lee and Low and now she runs the Tu Books imprint that I used to run for 15 years she is also an author she has her masters in I forget exactly what it is but it has to do with foodways and we're going to be talking about foodways in literature she has so much great information we will be talking with Elise McMullen-Ciotti later in April or possibly early May and we've got all these other events planned in the store that we will be recording and sharing on our podcast as well so we're really excited to finally dive back into Season 2 and now for this episode I want to talk about the systems that I have been implementing and one of the things that I've been concentrating on so deeply other than trying to get well from that cold that lasted forever and kind of still is hanging on in a little bit of a cough but now what we're gonna talk about today is everything that I've been concentrating on for the last two and a half three months really a little bit longer than that but the the the thing that I've been doing other than running the store and working on getting better is that I have been working on implementing a system called a CRM I use Zoho because that's the one that I'm familiar with we used it at Lee & Low and we had started implementing it in 2019 and it was a lifesaver when we went into March of 2020 and everybody had to start working from home because rather than having Excel sheets everywhere and all of our different systems depending on what department we were in all of our main information about each book was handled in a central location and everybody had one source of truth for every single book we had the ISBN and the price and the the summary and all of the information about any book lived in one place that anybody in the company could reference and that's what I'm doing with my bookstore now is getting our books my bookkeeping system into Zoho so I can drop Quickbooks Online I'm getting my social media system into Zoho so I was able to already drop our social media scheduler I was able to drop Constant Contact that's within the same system and like I said I'm using Zoho but Zoho isn't the only CRM out there there is Honeybook for freelancers and I know a lot of YouTube creators use Honeybook it wasn't quite what I needed for my system the thing about a bookstore it or any retailer but a bookstore in particular is that we have particular needs oftentimes when you are getting your education from a business educator such as the WBDC the Women's Business Development Council, here in Connecticut most states have one of them or the SBDC the Small Business Development Center they often have free classes you should definitely look into them but when we're when I'm taking those classes they're often talking about the difference between a product based business and a service based business but when you're talking about a retailer particularly a bookstore, we're both we've got books we've got products that we're selling but we're not manufacturing those we are bringing those in from the manufacturers from the the distributors and we're curating them into one space and that service of curation and convening which is for our events that's the convening of the community we have book clubs, we have author events we have all sorts of events in the store I always forget the third C there are three Cs of like the principles of running a bookstore curation convening and I don't remember the third one but I'm constantly using it in grant applications because that really describes what we do as a bookstore which is not entirely a service and not entirely a product based business so I tell you that because what I need in a system that allows me to get organized and to have visibility into our numbers is gonna be a little bit more complicated than if you are you know a YouTube creator or a freelancer offering say design services or social media services that service that you're offering might not be as complicated as me having the last I checked I have 15,000 separate SKUs in the store right now so I need to keep track of my inventory and stay on top of it and that's the reason why we are talking about systems today just last week a couple of friends of mine were deeply affected by the closure of Dial which is an imprint of Penguin Random House Dial started as an independent publishing house and was absorbed by Penguin back in the eighties I have a couple of friends who started out their careers there in the early 80s as when it was a separate company and then they moved to Penguin before it was Penguin Random House because it only became Penguin Random House back in I think it was 2015 or so so anyway I have a friend who was laid off as part of that I have another friend over there whose imprint is going to be absorbing Dial and already overworked editors who are remaining are going to be asked to take on even more work that has a lot of implications for the authors and the artists who work with these imprints authors whose books are in progress in particular are going to be highly affected by you know who's gonna take on their books who's gonna champion their books in house as many of you know I was laid off in September from my job at Lee and Low Books and last month I think it was there was a layoff at Simon and Schuster and I think there have been other layoffs between mine and last week's at other houses and just in general right now the book industry is feeling very precarious I told you there were four million books published last year and even though traditional publishing is feeling quite precarious the number of traditionally published books also went up last year by about 6% but everyone who is you know just a regular worker in the industry is feeling highly squeezed by what's going on in publishing right now and on top of that we have to deal with tariffs you know who knows with the unpredictability of what's gonna be hit again because they were declared unlawful but now they're trying to put in tariffs under a different law and books are generally exempted from tariffs but we sell candles and stickers and bookmarks and all sorts of things that are affected by the tariffs and then on top of that now we're apparently at war with Iran despite you know it being illegal and Congress not being involved and not willing to stand up to blah blah blah everything we touch is affected by the price of oil whether it includes petroleum in the product or not

so plastics: 14:45

obviously petroleum based unless you're you know using eco friendly plastics that are corn based the corn takes petroleum to grow to ship everything that we do is affected by the price of oil just in the last two weeks our local gas here has gone up 75% I know you've probably dealt with various other rises in costs as well we have heating oil in the northeast so I'm glad we're going into a warm season because I might not be able to afford to heat my home anytime soon like I am seriously worried about what all of this greater world events means for whether my business might survive to be quite honest so what we are doing here in the bookstore is we're not going to allow ourselves to panic though you know I might ramble a bit in a panicky way and then I'll get to work and so what I have been doing is I've been working on my systems I have at the moment been working on this CRM system that I just told you about and what that is helping me to do is to really get on top of inventory management budget management and to have greater visibility into my numbers so I have a point of sale system I've explained that to you before you can check that out here when I've talked about all the various things that if you're gonna start a bookstore here are the systems that you need to start out with well we are in our third year the systems that I started with aren't necessarily the systems that are going to continue to work for me as we grow we are a good 25% down in 2026 versus this time in 2025 we had 40% down in-store sales for the 2025 holiday season versus 2024 so when I say that everything that is in the economy overall is affecting us as a business and I'm not the only one I'm sure that you can understand that I am really reaching for the ways that I can save money I look at the ABACUS survey which is from the American Booksellers Association and I look at the percentages that the most profitable bookstores spend on each of a particular part of their business so rent or employee wages or uh you know cost of goods because you know even that alone is anywhere from 50 to 60% and so with that 40% left how much are you spending on rent what percentage of that are you spending on rent what percentage are you spending on wages what percentage are you spending on utilities and paying yourself so that you can eat and live I look at those numbers and I know I am not there yet but as I'm implementing this system and I will be showing you some screenshots of what I'm working on I'm gonna have an analytics dashboard that allows me to see my seasonal ordering budget seasonal ordering is the biggest headache that I have because it is so hard to have true visibility on when bills are going to be coming due the way that bills work the way that bookstores have to pay their bills if they're not paying cash up front if they're on terms with a publisher or distributor that means that they have anywhere from 30 to sometimes 120 days to pay their bill after the book arrives they don't get billed until the book arrives well when the book is shipped not necessarily when it arrives so it is March right now and I am ordering for June July August and into the fall and what that means is I am not being billed right now for books that aren't gonna be released until, say, August but let's say that most of the books come out at the end of September and into the early part of November if I have my largest bill in October and I have 120 days dating on it, which is... 4 months yes, 4 months say most of those books come out in October or even 90 days dating the clock starts ticking for that book in October the all of those books and my bill of let's say I get a ten thousand dollar bill for the month of October for everything it just to use a round number and let's say I get some really good 60 day and 90 day dating for those books what that means is most of those bills if I have 60 to 90 days even 120 days is that the October bill is gonna start coming in December and then January and February and hopefully you're making a lot of money in December so that's great right you've got the holiday shopping you've got people buying gifts it's great to be flush with money in December and be able to pay your bills but what if $5,000 of that bill comes due in January after the cliff of holiday shopping falls off do you have the money to pay that bill? and the way to know that you're holding enough in reserve to pay those bills is to have visibility into when those bills are coming due so what I am doing is I am putting my purchase orders including the release date and all of that kind of stuff the terms because I might be getting a better discount if I'm ordering early enough or with the right promo code that my rep helps me to apply and if I am applying that promo code correctly in my system that means that I know exactly how much I'm gonna owe in October November December, January February that means that even if my bill in October is quite low and I might be thinking oh, I'm so flush with money! you know we're going into the holiday season and I've got extra money what am I gonna do with that extra money well what I should be doing is putting it in savings if I know that I've got a bill coming due in January that I don't know we're going to make enough money in January to cover so having this system where my inventory and my purchase orders and my sales information so I can track what is selling and really get a vibe on what I need to be bringing in more of that's what I'm doing with my CRM system other systems though that I want us to talk about because it's not just the CRM that's what I'm obsessing with right now but we've got all these things going on if you are thinking about your own business which may be a bookstore it might be another kind of store you do have to worry about your point of sale system and your inventory tracking if you have inventory your ordering system which should be connected with your budgeting system in some way your bookkeeping system which should be connected to your budgeting system as well I did not have those connected before and this is why I'm implementing the system but I'm also worried about events management given the circumstances that I've let you know about like I actually had to let a couple of employees go in January it was really hard events they just weren't they weren't doing what I needed them to do I have a strategy that I'm trying to implement and it wasn't happening so I am trying to rebuild our event system from the ground up and really grow it because as I look at our inventory as I look at our foot traffic and the sales that we get from that foot traffic it's simply not enough we have a website we have great social media and we have a book box that has really been taking off every month hey and by the way I'm gonna link it below I am so excited about that book box because we choose each month by theme and next month's, April's, theme is Appalachian cottagecore fantasy so you don't want to miss it I'm going to link to that below if you want to subscribe and that gives us a baseline of steady income so that we don't have to worry about it fluctuating too much and events are another way that we can bring in foot traffic so that people can shop the store and know that we are here we want to bring in authors that people get excited about but also we're only allowed 28 people here in the store as part of the fire code I would feel uncomfortable getting too many more people in here anyway because it's not that big a space our shelves in the middle of the room do push back cause they're on wheels but it's just still quite a small space so I'm actually looking for ways to create larger events that we can do either with community partners we do already do community partner events with local libraries and with the American Mural Project we had Sarah Beth Durst doing an episode of this podcast over at Little Red Barn last fall and that was a blast though soundwise it wasn't actually really great for the podcast which is why I'm thinking about a more of a venue that is specifically for events like this I'm looking at for example the Warner Theater in Torrington or Infinity Hall over in Norfolk though Infinity-- if any of you watching this have any connection with Infinity Hall they don't call me back I've been trying to get a hold of them for months and they don't email or call me back so I'm not really quite sure what's going on with that venue but I'm getting quotes from various places and I applied for a grant the ignite grant with the WBDC because I'm hoping that that grant will allow us to pay for the venue and for the kind of seed capital to pay deposits for venue and for travel expenses to bring in authors who might not be local to us so that we can bring in bigger name authors and really be a draw to the bookstore and that means sustainability for us being able to sell a lot of books for an event that's awesome but also being able to perhaps even charge you know a modest amount to see an author that they might not be able to see otherwise they might not be able to easily travel to we're bringing those people here to the northwest corner of Connecticut that could mean the difference between just barely surviving to thriving and that's that's what I mean by creating systems to put into place that make your business more sustainable in the hard times I'm also thinking about for example and these are departments obviously events is a department marketing is a department but I'm also thinking about systems that make it easier for the work to get done in an efficient way and so I'm thinking about how we are creating systems around our marketing both social media here on the podcast because this is kind of a a marketing thing as well as informational and community building and how we are I need to get better at my newsletter I have not been sending out a regular events newsletter for a couple of months because I've just had so many other things going on I am trying to do most of this myself right now and I really need to come spring um be hiring perhaps an assistant manager perhaps an events coordinator I am not sure what that's gonna look like yet but I have to have the financial part of it in place to feel comfortable hiring someone who I hope will help us to take it to the next level as well and to be able to take on some of the work and help us to become more profitable but they kind of have to go hand in hand and I need to get those pieces into place to be able to find the right person who is going to actually help me implement the strategies that I have been working on The systems within your business are not the only systems that we all need to be worrying about because as I said there are world events that we don't have a whole lot of control over whether the straight of Hormuz is open to you know tanker traffic or not but we can be looking at our local governments we can be looking at connecting with our community and actually that brings up that we are gonna be um working with our local Indivisible chapter to be hosting an Exploring Democracy book club we're starting that in April more details will be on our events soon and we're going to be reading On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder first and everyone including me usually talks about Principle One in this book, do not obey in advance but the thing about this book club is that it really is hitting principle 13 which is to practice corporeal politics get involved locally meet people who might not be in your immediate orbit meet people who you might not have known otherwise if you didn't go to a book club if you didn't go to a community event getting to know your neighbors is a big part of helping to protect everything that we care about in this business which is the First Amendment our right to free expression bookstores are bastions of free expression libraries education like right now there are so many localities where their school boards or their library boards have started restricting access to specific books and right now nationally HR 7661 has been introduced to attempt to ban books nationally here on the local level you can have conversations with your neighbors and I really feel like the way that I'm able to connect with people who might not agree with me on everything here locally in the store in person opens up doors and opens up hearts and opens up my own heart in a way that the national political side of things doesn't really allow for right now and so while I really think it's important and I urge us all to be calling our representatives especially if you've got a Republican representative about HR 7661 I also think that as we get involved in our local school boards our local library boards local government in whatever way if you care about economic development get involved in your Chamber of Commerce get involved in your town's Economic Development Committee that's what they're called here in Connecticut I'm not sure what they're called in other places but all of those are ways of being civically responsible getting civically engaged in the systems that your business is a part of get involved in your local school if you have kids there are all sorts of ways that we can get involved locally whether that's as volunteers running for office attending town council meetings attending your county or whatever next level of board meetings getting involved in your local governmental processes allows us to know what's going on enough so that we can know how it's going to affect our businesses you're gonna be you know thinking about how state laws and state tourism that's a that's a system if you are running a bookstore and you want more people to be coming to your town to create foot traffic in your town Winsted is a small town there I think about 8,000 people in the entire town of Winchester which is Winsted is the city within the town of Winchester which is a little bit large larger they we have counties in Connecticut but the government is at the town level not the county level I'm not even sure how county like administration works in Connecticut I'm not sure that it works in the way that I'm familiar with when it comes to like county government in Illinois where I'm from so the town tends to be the body of government that we're paying attention to here in Connecticut and so if your town or the city that you're in doesn't have enough people in it to have enough foot traffic to support your bookstore you are looking at ways of bringing people in from a little bit further out so these events when Sarah Beth Durst came here last fall we had people come from as far away as Worcester, Massachusetts that is a two hour drive it's just outside of Boston that stunned me that people were willing to drive that far but if you have somebody who is a draw to your town people are going to be willing to drive there so that's the kind of thing that I'm thinking about as I'm planning my events and I'm also thinking about that as I'm talking with our local leaders, saying hey what can we do to encourage people to use these great hiking trails and then come eat on Main Street and maybe browse the bookstore you know that kind of thing those are the kinds of things that are a little bit larger system than just your store get to know your other local business owners make friends look for ways that you can help each other cross promote these are all ways of getting involved in our communities that are systems beyond the systems that you implement in your store and then there's of course on the national level here in the US there are so many things happening right now there's just so much to keep track of but if you're in the book industry a big thing that we're thinking about is the First Amendment because the school and library market has pretty much collapsed the thing about children's literature is that it really depends on the school and library market and book banning and obeying in advance all of the things that are happening on a state and local level have really affected the children's book industry right now and that that gets back to what we were talking about at the beginning with the layoffs happening in the book industry and what that means for the quality of books that we might be getting into a bookstore whether our local schools are gonna be able to provide the books that they need for those kids because they might be worried about I mean in some places they're worried about being arrested for providing normal books for children so thankfully we're not dealing with that here but a lot of places are thinking about implementing freedom to read laws I'm not sure I think Massachusetts has one we I think we passed it in Connecticut I think New York is working on one or vice versa with Mass and New York I I forget the exact details but freedom to read laws protect against librarians getting arrested for a book challenge and all of those kinds of things that 10 years ago I don't think any of us especially us working in diverse books really anticipated being anything to worry about advocating for First Amendment protections for librarians booksellers and educators is so important and advocating for the right for women and LGBTQ people to have access to the vote the SAVE America Act is still in play right now as we speak in Congress I see a lot of people saying oh it just doesn't have the votes it doesn't have the votes but there is a lot of maneuvering happening right now and the SAVE America Act will require proof of citizenship to vote a lot of people are like okay that's fine I'll just show my driver's license but your driver's license even a real ID is not proof of citizenship there are certain kinds of legal immigrants who are also allowed a real ID so you would either have to have your birth certificate or your passport that reflects your name at birth and any name changes along the way how many people know where their birth certificate is particularly when we're thinking about our elders there are a lot of elders who were born at home or particularly that they were born in Jim Crow era and were not allowed in the white hospital so did they have a birth certificate maybe their house burned down... that costs money a passport costs money and that is a poll tax the whole the aim of this is to disenfranchise the 20+ million people who don't have access to these documents I'm actually not sure that I have the right kind of birth certificate in my house I have my birth certificate that is in like an album that my mom made for me but I'm not sure it's the like, official with the stamp and the seal and all that kind of stuff and my passport is... I really need to renew my passport but I haven't had the money to renew it so I am thinking about this even though I've never changed my name but if you have ever changed your name as a married woman or in any other way changed your name you have to have like a whole trail of documents proving your citizenship the reason why I bring this up is because everything else in our democracy depends on that including our right to free expression and our right to read me being able to have the right systems in my business to make a profit doesn't matter if I don't have the right to vote and this is no longer democracy so I just want you to be thinking about all of the systems that we live within and yeah I am really thinking about how to survive right now I'm really thinking about how do I implement systems that help me to survive and possibly thrive and to make a positive influence in my community but everything that's outside of all these things also affect my business and my ability to continue to pay my mortgage my ability to feed myself on a regular basis and I'm sure a lot of you are also dealing with similar worries and fears so it's not enough just to put your head down and concentrate on your business we have to be thinking about these levels of systems that we live within and looking for ways that we can participate to make a difference in those systems I guess I just want to leave you with I am definitely gonna continue to obsess over my inventory and budgeting and all that kind of stuff I feel like that's something that I have control over I'm gonna attend the protest next weekend the No Kings 3 protest if you're local I hope to see you there and if you are unable to make it we've got postcards to swing states here on tables every Saturday until we finish them or the deadline has hit we've still got more to go so even though we said three Saturdays in March Next Saturday if you can't make it to the protest if you can't make it all the way down to Torrington or wherever any of the rest of the protests are definitely come by and fill out some postcards whatever you can do make sure that you do it make sure that you are having those conversations with your community and that you are connecting with your community and getting to know your neighbors every single part of this will help us to overcome the hard times and get through them the reality is I care about making money so that I can live I'm not I'm not out here to like make a million dollars it'd be lovely to be able to afford all my medical bills and all my dental bills and my you know living expenses and all that and still have money left over to put toward good causes but I think most of us are in the same boat of we just wanna do good in the world while we're here and I feel like bookstores are a major bastion of being able to do that so the more that I can implement these systems to help me along and let you know about them and hopefully that they are useful to you I'm gonna share them so join us next time we are gonna be talking with my friend Jennifer Gonzales and we are gonna be talking about Jen does consulting with non profits but they also help me on working on grant applications for my business and so they helped me to get my NHE3 grant last fall which got us computers for the front desk and in the back and now I just applied for the Ignite Grant like I said hopefully fingers crossed that they'll help us to launch a bigger version of our events program and Jen was the clear head that helped me to look at the grant process as not as overwhelming as it could be and really boil down how to pitch what I'm trying to do in a way that the grant program understands that it will make an impact the impact that they want to make in the community economic development etcetera etcetera so join us next time for that it's already filmed I just need to edit it so I'll try and do that as quickly as possible and join us for the rest of the season please you know like subscribe all that kind of stuff and please share these episodes that I've been pointing out with anyone you think who might find the information useful and interesting thank you so much we'll see you next time