Humans of Padel
Join your host Max Marsh Pickard, General Manager of Padel Art & Co founder of The Padel Outlet in a weekly entertaining dive into the world of Padel and the people involved in the industry
Humans of Padel
Behind The Walls of The Padel School | Secrets from 5,000+ Videos with Sandy Farquharson
Ever wondered how to keep your content fresh after producing over 5,000 videos? Join us as we chat with Sandy from the Padel School, who reveals the secrets behind running a successful online coaching business. From managing multiple social media platforms to the critical role of in-person clinics in sparking new ideas, Sandy provides an insider’s look at the meticulous planning and creativity required to sustain and grow a thriving online community. We also discuss the development of their online platform, which offers exclusive courses and challenges for their dedicated members.
The journey from the British paddle team to becoming a mentor for recreational players is filled with lessons and personal growth. Sandy shares candid moments of battling imposter syndrome and the immense satisfaction derived from helping others improve through video content. We also explore the joy of conducting clinics and paddle holidays, setting achievable goals for players, and the often-overlooked administrative challenges of running a startup in the UK. Future plans for breathtaking padel holiday destinations make this a must-listen for anyone passionate about the sport.
Scaling a niche sports platform is no easy feat, and Sandy breaks down the strategies for maintaining quality while expanding operations. We dive into the difficulties of monetizing social media content despite high viewership and the importance of exploring additional revenue streams like subscription models and clinics. The episode also touches on integrating new faces into social media to broaden reach and relieve pressure on primary individuals. Finally, we discuss the exciting global expansion of paddle sports, the comparison with pickleball, and the transition from the World Paddle Tour to Premier Paddle, offering a glimpse into the future of this growing sport.
Hello everyone, thanks for joining on this episode of the Max Plays Paddle podcast. Sandy is with me on this one. We did record this episode in March. However, everything we discuss is still relevant today and Sandy provides some great insight to the world of the paddle school. Enjoy the episode and do drop me a message on Instagram at Max Plays Paddle to give your feedback. Enjoy the episode.
Speaker 2:Here we are today. I'm in Emirates Golf Club and I'm with Sandy from the paddle school. Thanks for joining us Pleasure. It's actually my pleasure to have you in the hot seat this time, because about a year and a half ago you were asking me questions, so today I get to ask you. So today what I wanted to touch on was obviously the Paddle School. You started it now about eight years ago, started with online videos. We all know why you started it because you couldn't find quality English content and you wanted to put something out there for the people, and you've done an amazing job of that. You have a huge amount of followers, but how's the day-to-day now? How do you keep up that rhythm of content?
Speaker 3:it's difficult, I think. I think maybe probably a good place to start would almost be what? What I'm doing day to day, you see, because, um, now, not only am I making social media content, but I've got I'm making content for our platform. So we put out a weekly piece of exclusive content on our platform, plus all of our courses and our roadmaps and everything like that on thepoderschoolcom um, as well as our social media content. So, um, it's definitely, it's definitely a lot of work making the content and that is a big part of of what we do. Um, I, I generally focus more on our platform stuff because they're that's our members, they're the ones sending in their videos, they're the ones really working to fix their game. So when we make a course, it's because those members need a course, and so we, we, we do that. Um, I mean social media is is difficult right when, when you've probably published, in the region of you know, 5 000 videos on paddle, how many, you know? How many new subjects are you going to?
Speaker 2:how many videos on the bandeja can you really do?
Speaker 3:it's interesting you say that, though, because I've literally just done a class on the bandeja and it's our group there and they say, oh, oh, I didn't realize this and this, and they'll ask me questions, and there'll be questions that I may not quite have covered, something, like you know, leading with the hand and opening the face slightly, and I haven't done a YouTube specifically on that. So whenever I do clinics and I mean a lot of my day to day is clinics I don't think people realize how much time I spend in person on court with players and large groups of players, but whenever we do that, then you know, I'll always get almost fresh ideas, fresh content, and that does make it easier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's the issue with the social media we have today. It's endless content, isn't it? It's an endless feed, feed. Constant content is being posted and you need to remain relevant and always new stuff. So do you have a calendar for it, and on how many different platforms are you posting?
Speaker 3:yeah, we have a cat. I mean, we have a calendar, we're a scheduler, um, so everything is automatically scheduled and we try and be as in advance as we can, um, and I mean, I think we're posting across every platform that we can really. I mean, we facebook, instagram, youtube, tiktok, and we have a podcast. We, we do a weekly blog, we do our newsletters for our members, um, but we couldn't do it if we didn't schedule it up, like if we, if it wasn't in a calendar and planned, we would really struggle. And we do a monthly um, a monthly challenge for our members. So, um, this month's challenge is the vibra, and so we'll do 11 videos for the vibra, for for our members, with challenges thrown in to work on their game. So we'll do a challenge every month as well. So that's, it's not social media, but it's more.
Speaker 2:You know, it's more, more content it's more targeted towards the people that you have already on your platform. So how many members do you have currently on your platform.
Speaker 3:We've got about 750. So, um, I mean we, this platform has been you know, we talk about the business side of of kind of online coaching. This platform has been um really difficult to put together in terms of, um, you know, time in terms of finding the right team to to develop it, um we having the, the systems all set up the way we want them. Um, you know, we, we wanted to have a roadmap so that if you're a beginner player, you have a roadmap, so that courses followed each other and they were all within that. That certain way, um, you know, and little things like that required different plugins and different softwares etc. And so that has taken quite a while to develop um and it really we, we launched it properly, uh, probably in about I think it was end of may, june, like june time, um, and then, you know, gradually it's been it's been increasing, but it's um takes time.
Speaker 2:You know it takes time to do these things yeah, I mean, everyone sees you on social media and they see the videos and it's, oh, sandy, it's nice. You, you know, put some videos on instagram. How many followers you have around in the hundreds of thousands are we?
Speaker 2:uh, yeah, I think 160 something yeah, quite impressive, but I think a lot of people don't realize the effort that it takes to get there. So I mean, people want to be influencers. Let's say how long did it take you and how many pieces of content to get to that 100 000 followers?
Speaker 3:you also have to remember that I was doing this at a time when when not many people were doing it like paddle. Now, I mean, everyone is a as a paddle expert, um, so, but, but you know, at the time of doing it it took quite a while, but it's. It's very much like, um, you know, peaks and troughs, so so you'll go through a phase for, for almost no reason, a certain type of content will do well for a while and then you know what ends up happening is others copy and then there's more people doing it and then it doesn't. You know, it then plateaus a little bit and things like that. But, um, it takes time and, importantly, takes consistency. Like you got to think, youtube I don't know what we're at now like 120 or something, uh, thousand, but um, I, I haven't missed a weekly post for seven years.
Speaker 3:So it's like it's consistency and organization. Um, you know, those are. Those are like the two big things. Yes, you need to have good tips and you need to explain them clearly and you need to really understand the player. This is why I do so much in-person stuff now, because it, like you know, even this morning I've had 24 players and I like the more time I spend with those players, the more I get to know them and therefore the more I target my, my tips and my content for them.
Speaker 2:That makes sense, because when you put something online, you're it's kind of a shot in the dark, isn't it? You're going to a very broad audience, but are you kind of basing that video on an experience that you had with someone, so in a way it is targeted back to that individual that raises question or that had a certain limitation?
Speaker 3:And that's often how I do it now is because we've covered everything. So now it will be almost question to question and and this is the difference between our social media and our platform. Like social media, one week will be a, a vlog of our trip and then a racket review, and then a beginner rules and then an advanced vibra. Like it's it's. It's random and it's intentionally random. We've got a wide, uh, a broad audience, so, um, but our, our online platform is structured like it's. You know, if we're working on an intermediate player, okay, great, we've, we've helped you with your bandeja. Next let's develop that and progress to the vibra, and so this is how you're going to progress to to this vibra, and then this is where you go from there and where you go from there. Like that, that's what's taken us so long to put together. I mean, it's over. Like just on there, I think it's about 350 videos, like how long are those videos on the platform?
Speaker 2:so, for example, if I'm following a course as an intermediate player and I'm working on that volley or bandeja, how long is each video and what's the interaction like?
Speaker 3:Roughly. Some are longer than others depending on the difficulty. Like, our double glass course is a bit longer because it takes a bit more, but roughly each course is eight to ten videos and they're similar to the YouTube. They'll be four to six to seven minutes, something like that. Um, we feel like that's a good length of time for people to concentrate. Take one, two maybe three tips from a video, go away practice, come back, focus on something else, go back, practice, etc yeah, I mean that's a challenge.
Speaker 2:Isn't it taking from in-person training to then video training, because you have no feedback from the player? But are you getting that feedback? Are they writing to you through the course? How? How does that?
Speaker 3:so we have a, we have a private members group. Originally it was part of our, our software, but now it's on on facebook because it was just so much easier. It has all the tools, so we do live calls on there. We do. But, um, yeah, players send in their videos and actually what we find is we always encourage people to get a tripod as quickly or as soon as they can and start start videoing, and what we find with a lot of players is they'll take a video and then they won't send it in because they've actually seen themselves what they're doing.
Speaker 2:Um, and so they're now analyzing their games better, which is where we want to get to really yeah, if you can get that self-awareness of what your own flaws are, you can start to work on it. Once you know what you're doing and you touched on something earlier you said that everyone now is a paddle expert. It's true, everyone's putting out content, everyone's putting out videos. A lot of people are replicating a little bit what you started doing in paddle and what other people are doing in other industries. What would you define the paddle school as? Are you paddle experts? Are you coaches? Are you paddle influencers? I've heard that one thrown in around. What would you? How would you define it?
Speaker 3:it's difficult. You, you've got to think. When I started, I had already been playing for five years, I was already competing for the british team. I'd already gone on like two or three coach education courses in spain and spent time with, like Bella Lima, like Manu Martin, like these guys there to learn from them. I'd already, like really, really dedicated myself to learning and and I was very at the beginning even then I was playing and coaching at quite a good level.
Speaker 3:I had a little bit of like imposter syndrome of like who am I to tell people what, what to do?
Speaker 3:Um, and originally I started making the videos for my own students, um, and then it kind of snowballed and I realized that actually there's just no um, there was no information in the game, and so, um, I mean, expert is a strong word, but I, I feel like you know I'm I'm always learning, like this is why I love these sessions. You know, last week I was in Norway with, I think we did, 130 people over three days, you know, and I learned so much from that, like how to better organize my lessons as a coach, but also like every time I'm getting reinforcement on what players need and what they do. So I don't really like paddle influencer. I feel like it's not. You know, people think that when they don't realize, like all of the stuff that is behind the social media, I'm not like at home just making social media videos like the majority of my time is is spent on on court or working with players, whether it's online in person video analysis or on the court, like training and things like that is the imposter syndrome still there?
Speaker 3:no, no, it's gone. Good, yeah, it's gone. I mean it's, it's one of those that you just, you just think, look, I'm, you know, as soon as I realized I was helping people, that it went because I, I don't, you know, I'm not posting videos for, you know, lebron and galan to learn what they should do with their tactics against an nr and super like. That's not my target. I'm not, I'm not trying to trying to do that. My my target is recreational players and I know I mean I've had so many reinforcements that I can help them.
Speaker 2:That, um, yeah, I know it's, it's beneficial for them I mean it's very positive the impact that you have, and obviously you came to visit us in paddle art and the impact from all the players was very positive as well. Then then I just arrived and you're finishing a clinic here in Edinburgh's golf club and everyone left with a smile on their face. And I guess that's what you're what you're going for, isn't it really?
Speaker 3:and people go away with one or two tips and then keep playing and then they improve on their game it's definitely that, and it was a pleasure being at padlock, um, and it's the same right like, you go on, you do the session and we I always do it as a wrap-up. I don't know if you heard my wrap-up at the end, but it's like right, what are you taking from this session? What one or two things are you taking? I'm not I'm not encouraging them to take 15 things away because they can't focus on that it's like, what one or two things are you going?
Speaker 3:And for me, this is what good coaching should be that you know you finish your session, you wrap it up, you say to the player like what's your, what are your mini goals now with your game? What are you going to work on? And then next time you come back to our lesson, you know we'll check on how that's going and then we'll look at giving you the next goals. And and it's a shame here, because most of the stuff is I'm with them for two hours, um, which is, which is okay, but um, it's not like when we do our paddle holidays I'm with them for four days, you know. And so then we get a group of 16 and we're with them for four days and we make real changes. Or if you're coaching at a club, you see them on a weekly basis over the period of six months and you make, you can make, you know real, real change there.
Speaker 2:You can build on that progress. So when's the next paddle holiday?
Speaker 3:The next paddle holiday We've got we've got quite a few coming up actually ibiza end of april. I'll be there, it's, it's full of locations yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:We got what we got. We got tenerife and portugal that have just come on. Um, yeah, ibiza one is full. We're doing a. We're doing a ladies only one in um, in portugal as well, with a, with a, with a group. I mean something actually that we organize with with clubs. So if a club wants to a paddle, we could do a paddle school, paddle art holiday sure we can do it in scarborough or somewhere yeah, yeah, exactly somewhere nice with a bit of sun, nice weather.
Speaker 2:We've just covered a little bit of how you work with the paddle school and what you've done so far. So where are we going? What's the future? Where do you see the paddle school in another seven, eight years?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think, um, you know one thing I obviously lived in dubai, so I lived here for 10 years and, um, I was in a very comfortable job it was. It was a job that I really enjoyed. Um, I learned loads. I I am forever grateful for for that role, um.
Speaker 3:And when I moved to the uk, I I've gone really from a whole new perspective now of trying to run a startup business. Um, you know, which, believe it or not, is is not as much time on court and is more time administration, paperwork, making sure you're registered for this, that you're paying a VAT, you're doing all of these other bits that go along with that business. And when you know, when I first started, I was on my own own. Now I've got my brother that that works with me at the paddle school.
Speaker 3:But again, it's like the more we want to do, the the more plates we are spinning and therefore it's difficult. So when we talk about where we want to go, I would love to almost consolidate this now and have everything set up, get people to come in and stabilize the social media content, as an example, or the platform, and really start to grow. And I mean we've done a lot of work with coach education. One of the reasons we came to Paddle Art Region was for training the coaches and we do that a lot and I want to really work on a formalized structure and then hopefully this year we're also going to see a couple of paddle school academies that that will come out, where we we have full influence over the program and the, the coaching and the training that's exciting plenty of things to come.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's great that you touched on consolidation and keeping the quality, and a lot of people do get too carried away and they just want eternal expansion and go bigger and bigger and bigger. But I think you're going the right direction by trying to keep the quality there and consolidating the whole thing. So we touched on building followers and building your social media, but can you actually make any money from it?
Speaker 3:I mean just for almost for transparency across all of our social media. So, given that we're across all our platforms, we make about $1,200 a month from YouTube and that is getting on average there between one to two million views a month. One to two million views a month, okay, and across all of our platforms, including tiktok, instagram, etc. We get about eight million views a month across everything and youtube. We make that, but then through other social media, like we don't make anything, yeah, there's no money coming through instagram right no, no, no, I guess that's just the visibility and getting out there and then it brings people in.
Speaker 2:It helps you get sponsors so.
Speaker 3:So if you were going to do this and you wanted to, you know, for those people that are pushing their social media, um, it helps you to get sponsors um it. It also depends on what, what type of content you're making. You know, there's there's quite a few paddle kind of I would say that they they do advice, but they're doing it in an entertaining way. You know, we wanted to be an authority in the industry, so we wanted to be, you know, the coach, educators, we wanted to be the industry leaders, et cetera. But you don't have to be. If you want to make more entertaining content, like, go for it. Um and and and.
Speaker 3:Brand deals is probably where where that would go. We are, like, quite fussy with brands because we want to make sure that we are getting the best from the brand and they're getting the best from us. And so you know, we have done deals in the past where, um, you know we'll have a brand and then it's almost like we're not pushing towards the same goal. You know they are wanting us to promote their brand or product or whatever it might be. But we only really take that on if we feel like it's good for the players, like if it's something that will help the public public like you know, the general recreational player but it's it's not easy like to to make money on on on socials in a niche sport, you know it's, it's pretty small it's still a growing sport, though I mean yeah, yeah obviously, since you started that, it's continued to grow.
Speaker 2:And then, as we're talking about the money, what are the revenue? Revenue streams do you guys have with the pedal school? So obviously you've got this 1200 for eight million views across all socials pretty much a month doesn't seem like a lot of money for the amount of views that you get. I mean, it doesn't cover our editor, doesn't cover your editor okay, yeah and then. So where's the rest of the money coming from to fund all of this? Because you're not rolling, you're not driving around in rolls royces unfortunately not.
Speaker 3:No, no, um, you know we and this was part of the work we've done with the platform. Because that subscription, you know that's £15 a month, or £12 a month if you pay every year. So you know that model is a good model but my god, it's been hard work to get it to a place where we felt happy with it, to to, to put it out there and charge. That it's not. It's that. That has not not been easy. That's been a.
Speaker 3:A lot of different agencies. We work with a lot of different freelancers. We've eventually got that. We've spent way more on it than than we've received to this point. Um, and then our work with in-person stuff and that's not. That's also not easy, because when we set up a paddle school clinic, they're expecting me or tom, and now tom's a face, a well-known face with the brand, but initially not. But, um, so it's, it's, it's not, uh, it's not a, it's not truly scalable. We talk about things we want to do in the future. To be able to scale is something I really want to work on and that's why I want to do academies, that's why I want to train coaches and have them present on our social media and grow like that Because I just don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah for me, as the face of it, I don't want to always be the only one that has to be on court yeah, I mean, if you have to be there for every single event, then you can't be everywhere and you can't scale to the point that you want to. I mean, obviously, tom um I think it was when last time you were in dubai actually he was starting to be more involved in the content and he was, in part, a lot with us. And how is he taking to the whole, uh, social media experience?
Speaker 3:yeah, he's, I mean he's doing well it's, it's. It's difficult at the beginning because you're not, if you're not used to it, like talking to a camera. It takes, takes practice and you know fortunately everyone hasn't didn't see the millions of takes I did in my early videos to to to get you know a single video. Back then it would take me two hours to make a five minute YouTube. Now it takes me about 12 minutes, you know. So it's like it's practice and he's getting better and better and he's training a lot in Madrid. So you know, for him he's a perfectionist, he wants his level to be as high as possible and he's training really hard.
Speaker 3:And you know, while you're doing that, it's it's trying to maintain the business. It's a bit like here, when I'm here this week, you know, these five days I'm on court six or seven hours a day doing the training. It's like it's only tom and I that are answering the emails when I go back home. So last week, when we're in norway together, both of us are on court for that period of time, we get to the end of norway and we've got a mountain of like emails and and admin that we've got to get back to people. We've got to, you know, be registering all our, our stuff for the, the uk and and things. So, um, that's another thing that this being able to streamline or grow is is almost like keep the quality but but consolidate and get a team.
Speaker 2:That is making all of that bit easier yeah, I mean your operational costs on the on a monthly basis must be pretty high. I mean you mentioned obviously your editor, there's you there's tom and you have obviously freelancers. That with nick is also with you guys yeah, so I mean operation on a monthly basis. You need to cover already a certain certain cost. You managed to do that just with the subscription through the platform, plus the youtube views or is it?
Speaker 3:yeah, and great question. Like initially when we were setting up the platform, a lot of the work I would do in person would would go to those costs, um, you know which, which was difficult, and tom and I weren't paying ourselves. You know, I've gone from from dubai, like you know, paying myself here, to to paying in the uk. Like we, you know, we didn't pay the first year. We, we barely paid ourselves to to get this rolling, mainly because the agencies you know, the web developers and things like that are quite expensive, so all of our in-person stuff was going towards that. Now the platform covers itself mostly, um, so, so that's good, but when you start doing paid ads or you start doing these things, these are all expenses yeah, it goes down pretty quickly once you start throwing a few yeah, yeah yeah, I mean, you spend obviously quite a bit of time in dubai, having worked here before.
Speaker 2:You have good relationships with a lot of people here in the clubs here. Um, obviously you've been. Scandinavia mentioned norway. I think you've been to sweden as well, iceland, even finland yeah, finland, norway, den, denmark, I've been to.
Speaker 3:I haven't been to Iceland yet spend some time in Spain, obviously.
Speaker 2:Where next, where's the paddle school going next?
Speaker 3:our next trip. So I get back from here and then I'm going to Portugal, so we've got a trip in trip in Portugal, and then I got a few UK based clinics, then I'm in Doha, uh, and then ibiza for the, the holiday. Um, I'll be in us probably at some point after that, like florida area probably. Um, I mean this, this next period of couple of months is a lot of travel. Um, it's just yeah, because the the game now is emerging. You know, six, seven years ago, when I was starting, english speaking countries didn't play. Like you, I wouldn't go on a US trip because no one started, the UK was barely starting. You know so. But now you know, all of these places are like, are really growing, and I haven't this place I really want to go to that I haven't yet. Places like South Africa I know the game is taking off there. Um, you know, the kind of bali, like asia kind of area is is growing really quickly as well, bali, thailand also.
Speaker 2:It's getting very big. The us, um, obviously you touched on that, but do you think that paddle will overtake pickleball in the us?
Speaker 3:um, when you say overtake, I don't, I don't think it will overtake, I think it will stand as a game on its own. I think it. You know, like, I don't know anyone that has played pickleball first and then play paddle and not enjoy paddle. But but the other way around it doesn't work. Like for those that have played paddle, pickleball is not, is not as enticing. You know, like the game. The paddle is more tactical, it's more strategic, you're, it's more physical. I think pickleball is great for the same reason that paddle is great, in that it's easy for people to play, they get a bit active, they enjoy it, and the us has got loads of pickleball, obviously, um, but most of those have not tried paddle, and so I I'd be interested to see. There's going to be some, some hardcore, hardcore picklers, I'm sure, um, but I think a lot will.
Speaker 2:I think a lot will play paddle and a lot will probably play both yeah, I mean I play both and I don't see any issue with with playing both. I enjoy both sports as what they are. Yeah, but there is, especially in this part of the world, there's a bit of a competition between the two. I mean people, either you play paddle or you play pickleball. You can't play both, which I see them both as quite recreational sports, especially, it's a level that you know myself and most people in this country are playing. I don't see why you can't enjoy other sports. Would you suggest to people not to play other racket sports?
Speaker 3:it's funny. You know we were having this conversation five or six years ago about paddling tennis. You know like, oh, you can't play that. It's competing and honestly, unless you're going to, unless you're playing the world paddle tour or, you know, the tennis tour or the pickleball tour, like enjoy it, like play whatever sports you want to play and and just enjoy it. And if you can get the technique from a sport and and understand that technique and do the same with the other sport, you'll be able to play them, I think, in harmony.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they're complementary as well, and also I think people are taking all of this way too seriously. I mean, it's just a sport, play it, have fun, enjoy yourself, play something else, try everything. You know. Life is short, people are getting way too competitive with these things and you and you touched on the world paddle tour.
Speaker 3:Um, obviously now premier paddle taking over. What's your thought on that? Um, I think it. I mean I think it's, it'll be good, I think in the long run. I think this year might be, it'd be quite interesting.
Speaker 3:I mean, the world paddle tour previously was, was a well-oiled machine in a way. They, they, they had all the teams to do it, they knew what they were doing. They were only in certain locations, they, they kind of did a good job of. Um, you know, launching tournaments and holding events. Premier are quite new to this and they are now trying to do you know what I don't know the number, but 20, 2024 events worldwide, like the first one's in saudi, you know, like, so it's, um, it's not, it's not an easy job and they haven't got the tournament team to do that.
Speaker 3:Um, and I mean I don't know how involved like the fip are, for example, in premiere, obviously it comes under the fip, but um, you know they've, they've obviously got some work to do to for them to get organized. I mean, they're still only showing the tournament schedule like four to six weeks in advance for essentially pro players and european and world championships, you know, being announced at last minutes and things like that. So, um, there's still work to do, but I think it's the right direction yeah, I mean hopefully it will go well.
Speaker 2:I mean the feedback I've had from from players especially, is that you touched on the fact that it is all over the world and for the players to travel and you know the hotels, the flights. You go through one round, two rounds, you're not really making any money and you've got to fight the other side of the world, the fatigue. Obviously tennis players do it, other sports do it, but the money is obviously a lot higher as well in, for example, tennis. So it'll be interesting to see how the players react to this schedule that all of a sudden is all over the world yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:I don't think the players initially were a huge fan of it, um, but I think one. I think the money will be a lot higher than it has been previously, and so it's putting it closer to sports like tennis. So, um, I don't think they'll be complaining by the end of the year.
Speaker 2:I imagine looking forward to seeing what happens and wish them all the best. Yeah, it'll be good. So, sandy, thanks for taking the time, thanks for having a chat with me. I'm sure we'll do this again in a very short future when you come back to Dubai again. Can't wait, looking forward to seeing you soon. Take care, cheers, man, cheers.