Humans of Padel
Join your host Max Marsh Pickard, General Manager of Padel Art & Co founder of The Padel Outlet in a weekly entertaining dive into the world of Padel and the people involved in the industry
Humans of Padel
Euro Padel League | Connecting Padel Communities Worldwide with Chris Warren
Instagram: @europadelleague and @rockslanepadel
Discover the visionary journey behind the Euro Padel League (EPL) with our special guest, Chris Warren, as he unveils the creation and expansion of this electrifying series of padel events tailored for top amateurs over 40. Inspired by major sporting leagues like the Champions League in football and the PGA in golf, the EPL offers not just competition but a vibrant community experience. Chris shares the story of the league's rapid growth, from its successful debut across Europe to its groundbreaking international event in Dubai. We discuss the increasing popularity of paddle in the UK and the challenges faced, such as securing planning permissions and expanding infrastructure to nurture the sport's future.
As we explore the strategic expansion of the EPL, Chris reveals how introducing membership programs in the UAE has transformed customer engagement and boosted revenues. Dive into the fascinating differences in customer behavior between Dubai and the UK and how these insights are shaping the EPL's global strategy. With thrilling tournaments lined up in Milan, Stockholm, and London, the journey culminates in the inaugural World Club Championships. The episode wraps with Chris's collaboration with Padel Art and an open invitation for clubs worldwide to join this vibrant community, marking a promising future for paddle sports globally.
Welcome back to another episode of the Humans of Paddle. I do apologize for being away for over a month. It was a busy time for me with the Premier Paddle in Dubai, black Friday, christmas and all of the above. However, I do promise to commit to a more regular schedule of the podcast. In this episode, I'm joined by Chris Warren, the founder of the EPL, the Euro Paddle League. It's an exciting series of paddle events and tournaments around the world for amateur players. We discuss the ideas behind the EPL and also the growth of paddle in the UK. I hope you enjoy the episode and the many more episodes coming soon. Thank you for taking the time to have a chat with me. Thank you for inviting me, max, you're most welcome, and your entire team from the EPL. So straight into it what's the EPL and how did you start it?
Speaker 2:So the EPL is the Euro Paddle League. My idea came about about 18 months ago. I'd played quite a lot of World Championships and European Championships and we'd hosted a lot of FIP events and I wanted to put all that experience together to make the ultimate tournament experience so that you could have competitive play, you could make friends, you could have a great social time, but also to do it in a condensed way, because a lot of the other tournaments lasted seven, ten, quite a lot, quite a lot of number of days and so took up a lot of time and people these days are very, very busy, so we wanted to have an event that you could do in two days. So you go, bang in and out, have a great time, have great fun, we'll play and you're focusing on the amateurs of the of the sport yeah, so top, top amateurs, so amateurs who've, uh, mainly 40 plus, 40 years plus, who've played in um international tournaments.
Speaker 2:So we've got European champions playing for us, we've got national number ones, number twos, so pretty high standard overall. But then the concept is to have it similar to the Champions League in football and also the PGA in golf. So that's why we're in Dubai. So we're doing an our first ever international event in Dubai. All our other events have been solely inside Europe for the top European clubs. How?
Speaker 1:many of those have you done so far in Europe.
Speaker 2:So we've done five now in Europe. We've done Portugal, villamora, we've done Marbella, spain, we've done Stockholm, sweden, we've done London, the UK, we've done Milan, in Italy. So they've been our five so far. And when was the first one? When did you start? The first one was January 2024. So we're nearly a year old.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've done all that in one year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's quite impressive.
Speaker 2:Well it's. We've had a lot of interest, so a lot of clubs want to host. So we have to choose the right clubs, the clubs that have got experience hosting events, like yourselves. They've got good infrastructure in terms of the courts, the club, the clubhouse, but also the travel and the accommodation. Everything has to fit perfectly and, again, that's been our experience in the past. Some events that are hosted around the world aren't the easiest to get to. That are hosted around the world aren't the easiest to get to, so we want the major cities Dubai is a great hub.
Speaker 2:Dubai is a great hub, incredible. Anybody can fly here. That's why we have the strapline East meets West, so we can have the Middle East and Western.
Speaker 1:Europe. So where are the teams coming from in the event this time?
Speaker 2:So in this event, we've got two teams from Europe, that's one team from London, one team from Stockholm, then we've got two teams from Egypt and then we've got four teams representing the UAE.
Speaker 1:Nice. It's great to bring the people together. It's a great community event.
Speaker 2:And what's in it for you? What's in it for me is I mean, I, like everybody who's involved, love paddle and also paddle, which I think is very different to tennis. There's a really good community spirit and so our strapline is friendship, fair play and fun, so that we all get together and have a great time. So I enjoy the experience and I see paddle really as a blank canvas compared to football and tennis, where you can actually set up these new leagues, these new events, and I really just enjoy doing it, and if we can break even or make a little profit, that's a bonus yeah, I mean so you're doing this from as a passion for the sport and a lover of the game?
Speaker 1:really definitely because you have a paddle courts in the uk, don't you?
Speaker 2:you are a club owner yourself yeah, so we've got 24 courts now in the uk and we've got the biggest club in london, the 12th courts, which is rocks lane paddle chiswick. And now we're building up the biggest academy in the uk as well, with spanish coaches, so that we learn from the best. How is paddle now in the uk? Um, it's growing significantly. It's got challenges in terms of planning permission. That's the main challenge but we've now gone beyond 500 courts. I think by the end of next year we'll be heading towards 1,200 courts, so it's getting bigger and bigger. In terms of participation, our estimate now we've got probably about 350,000 players, so it's on the up, okay and what's the customer profile for paddle players in the UK?
Speaker 2:The main customer profile is definitely sort of ABC ones, economically so middle-class young professionals. But what we're doing at our club is we're doing across the community. So all the schools that come to our place, the state schools they get free use of the courts just to encourage more and more children to play, because we've also learned from the swedish model, where they just had adults playing and they didn't have the children playing. So you need the next generation to be introduced to the game. So then you've got your next generation of customers I agree 100% with you.
Speaker 1:You need that grassroots investment, even though it's at a cost to you. But in the long run, for the sport to sustain, we all need to put in that effort. Yeah, we've tried it here multiple times with the kids academy. It's been a struggle for us. Yeah, maybe location you know people are very transient. It's difficult, but I mean how's, how's it going with the kids for you? You have a lot of kids playing at the moment in the junior academies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've uh, in the junior academy now we've probably got 250 kids, so it's biggest, the biggest academy in the uk, and we're going to keep working on that and we, like you, had similar challenges. But what we've tried to do because for the schools often the transport is a big issue, yeah, so what we've tried to do is to do events so the schools know a certain event is happening at a certain time, so they get a lot of notice and then it doesn't necessarily have to be built into their curriculum because, as you'll know, not many schools have paddle courts, so you have to bring them to the center and the coaches are keen to do these sessions. So we've been doing trying to do at least one event a term that all schools can come to. Any schools that are close they can walk to the center, so that makes it a lot easier. And then we've done also universities. So we've done university matches. So then you're doing from sort of 5-year-olds right up to 21-year-olds.
Speaker 1:And it's like an open day and there's activities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's all fun. You have coaching sessions, you have fun games and then you play a few little fun matches.
Speaker 1:Nice, it's all based around that enjoyment and on the pro side of the game for the UK, how far do you think the professional British players are from reaching, let's say, top 50 in the Premier Paddle?
Speaker 2:I think the ladies will get there quicker. We now have Amy Gibson, who's coached by Ali Grillo, our head coach. She's coached in the UK and she's now got inside the top 120. So she's heading towards the top 100, which will be a great achievement. But you've got a few other girls probably three, four girls behind her who are getting towards that level With the guys. We've got, I think, one person at the moment who's sort of encroaching that 120 level, but the guys are, I think, a little bit behind the girls. Yeah, and I think that's going to take us at least another five years, maybe 10 years well by the time it becomes an olympic sport.
Speaker 2:Hopefully the the uk will be well yeah, now our sort of 10, 11, 12 year olds, like my son, for example. That's what I've said to him. I said said this is a great motivation. You know, if you work hard now, you have a chance to get into the Brisbane Olympics.
Speaker 1:If paddles I mean that'd be amazing, and I think it's still a lot more accessible than trying to do the same thing with tennis, for example, which the barrier to entry is very, very high.
Speaker 2:Is? Is there a lot of support from the Federation for British Paddle. They're starting to give more support. We'd obviously like a lot more support if possible, because now paddle and tennis are together. Tennis is definitely the predominant partner in that relationship. At recent meetings that I've had with the LTA, they have promised more support for the grassroots level and hopefully for the performance level.
Speaker 1:Um, but really we'll have to wait and see whether that's delivered do you think it's beneficial that it's lumped in with tennis, or would you rather see a separate paddle federation from the tennis federation?
Speaker 2:I think, with it being lumped in with with tennis, because the lawn tennis association is the richest association in the world, getting over 30 million pounds of funding a year. So as long as some of those funds are appropriated towards paddle in the right way, then it should be beneficial to paddle. I think we need a lot more support from the association, especially on the planning side of things. For example, recently we've applied for four more paddle courts and the only objection we got was from the LTA because they were worried about losing a tennis court. Whereas our tennis courts are underutilized at 17% utilization, our paddle courts are at 92% utilization. So we feel to increase participation we want to put more paddle courts in. They are. They LTA object to that, which is, for me, very frustrating.
Speaker 1:I mean it should be a no-brainer right and especially commercially, I mean that's not their interest. Is it the end of the day? How much money is made from the court?
Speaker 2:I think you're right, though, commercially and also its sustainability wise. Yeah, you know you have to make some sort of profit to be able to plow that back in to the junior programs, to the new courts, to the maintenance etc. And that's very important. Obviously, if you're a national governing body, maybe you don't think about the operating costs because you're given all these free grants all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, when my parents live in France, there was, I think, 10 tennis courts, no paddle courts. Let's say six, say six. Seven years ago they built two paddle courts.
Speaker 1:Now they built six paddle courts and they're turning a lot of the tennis courts now into paddle courts because there's no one playing tennis and they live in a village where it's people who are 50 60 plus right, so paddle being a lot more accessible for the elder people, yeah, it makes 100 sense for them to convert that and the club's making more money than it used to with tennis because of that's what we're finding.
Speaker 2:Paddle is a lot more inclusive. Yeah, you know, we have the first female muslim players, we have the first female muslim coach now at our center, and so we're actually bringing in a lot more people. So we're not saying we want to offer less tennis, but we want to offer more paddle. Yeah, because that's going to overall increase the participation in sport, and surely that is the overriding aspect and that's how sport england should be thinking. They shouldn't be thinking let's speak to the lta and see what they think whether we should have more paddle. They should make the decision based on the actual figures and the evidence rather than a policy. The lta's first policy is we do not lose tennis courts. For me, that is the wrong policy. We should increase participation across tennis and paddle.
Speaker 1:And I think the two sports can go hand in hand. I'm sure you have a lot of players in your club as well that still play tennis, that still play paddle, and I've found a lot of players, having taken up paddle again after stopping tennis, have slowly gotten back into tennis again as well. So I do feel that the two sports are not contradictory. You can play both hand in hand and it can be beneficial for both, I agree.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of crossover between paddle, pickle and tennis and I think if you offer all three you will get the crossover of people trying the different sports. And let's face it, tennis is technically the most difficult of those three sports, but those people who like a challenge are probably going to go for tennis. Those people who are new to the sport may get into those racket sports by playing pickleball, paddle and then moving on to tennis.
Speaker 1:Are you guys offering pickleball?
Speaker 2:We have tried it, and we've tried it a few times, but it hasn't really taken off like paddlers. Why do you think that is times, but it hasn't really taken off like padlas. Yeah, what do you think that is? Um, I think it's. There's a number of different things. I think pickle at the moment seems to be occupying that arena whereby badminton used to be played. Yeah, so, like in leisure centers, you can easily convert a badminton court into a pickle court by just lowering the net and then people can have a game. And also it tends to be very affordable in leisure centres, so it may only be three or four pounds each to play, whereas paddle and pickle in the commercial sector is probably a little bit more expensive. So that could be a barrier.
Speaker 1:How much does it cost to play paddle in the UK?
Speaker 2:I'd say the average cost of a court would be somewhere between £50 to £70 an hour okay, yeah, it's not cheap, is it?
Speaker 1:no?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's a bit cheaper than dubai, yeah, but I mean you need to have a certain income yeah, it's not cheap and that's why we do cross-subsidized sessions, so we do free sessions for the schools, for juniors, we do cheaper rates, and so, as you said, the important thing is fill the courts up at all times and also fill the courts up with people who may not have the opportunity to play. So give reduced rates at off-peak times, holiday times, so they can actually give other people a chance to play are you guys offering a membership or is it a pay-as-you-play?
Speaker 2:it's all pay-as-you-play, you can take a membership out, and that this gives you the ability to book further in advance okay, so it's not like unlimited play.
Speaker 1:No, we don't do that. Are you thinking? Thinking about doing that?
Speaker 2:I've contemplated it Because we did it recently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we started doing that in February, which was a risk because no one was offering that at the time in the UAE, and we decided to go for it. And, yeah, you lose on, let's say, pounds per hour, but you get more volume and people bring more people. So for us it has actually worked out. I more volume and people bring more people, so for us it has actually worked out. I didn't know exactly how it was going to go, yeah, but it's been good for us. And I don't know if in a lot of sports you do have that option for membership. So I think maybe paddle might go that way in the uk as well. Yeah, I think you're right there.
Speaker 2:I think it may well sort of help you commercially because you will have people coming into the center more, so better on on the F&B and then all the accessories and if you have a good club shop as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, our coffee shop has doubled in revenue since we started the membership, for example, and you get more loyalty, exactly yeah, you have retention and they bring more people. So it's an interesting cycle that we've kind of gone into and so far we don't regret it.
Speaker 2:Hopefully we'll continue to yeah, definitely to not regret it. I mean, and that's why we we're spending a lot of time and a lot of resources on the academy yeah, because that again breeds the, the loyalty that people want.
Speaker 1:I mean, here we have a very different customer base than than you. The good thing about the uk is if someone makes a plan, they know they're going to do pretty much the same thing every week for the next year. Here is very transient. People travel, people work remotely, so it's a lot more fluid here. We don't have the same loyalty on a daily basis that maybe there is in the UK, so it's a very different customer base and it's interesting to see how clubs operate in different countries and what works well for each one. What are your plans for your time here in dubai.
Speaker 2:Um well, we, we arrived here on wednesday and then we came, came straight to the club on thursday to talk to you and your team to organize everything. So it's really been the tournament that's taken up most of our time. But then also there's some great restaurants, so we've been booking restaurants for the evenings and then on Saturday we'll have the players' presentation party where we give out all the prizes for the winners, the runners-up and then most valuable players as well. So we won't really have much time to play any golf or do any other sport. It's going to be all basically paddle and then some nice meals.
Speaker 1:I hope so, and until when are you in the UA? Until Sunday, or do any other?
Speaker 2:sport. It's going to be all basically paddle and then some nice meals out there.
Speaker 1:I hope so. And until when are you in the UAE? Until Sunday.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you're leaving literally now. Yeah, so we're leaving pretty quick, but we want to come back pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, when you do decide to come back, we'll be here, we'll be definitely coming back.
Speaker 2:You know it's your home paddle art, right? Be the next epl tournament after this one, um. So now we've announced the 2025 schedule, okay, and the next one is very exciting because we're going to be doing it at the hexagon cup. So we're doing it in partnership with hexagon nice, um. Enrique buena ventura and richie de la harras are co-founders of the hexagon, so we're gonna richie's to host the epl at his club and then we're going to go to the hexagon. We're going to do an activation there and do some exhibition matches and then all the players get tickets to to watch the matches as well that's great.
Speaker 1:Where else are we going then? We?
Speaker 2:move on to milan como lake como, beautiful paddle resort there, yeah. Then to stockholm, just as the winter ends in Stockholm and the sunshine comes out. And then in London in July, the same week as Wimbledon, we're going to have a World Club Championships. So that's when we're going to obviously invite all the teams that have played in the event from around the world, including Dubai and Paddle Art. We're going to have 16 teams and we're going to do the first ever world club championship that's amazing.
Speaker 1:That's exciting. I hope that paddle art team will be there, definitely. On a closing note, if I'm a club manager somewhere around the world and I'm listening to this, yeah, and I think this EPL thing sounds great, I want to get my team involved. Yeah, how do I sign my team up for the EPL?
Speaker 2:so, basically, you just send me a WhatsApp email, go on to Instagram, check it out it's Europaddle League and if you're one of the best clubs in your country, then we welcome you with open arms. And if you've got the experience of running events, managing teams, traveling, all the logistics that are involved, then I think you'll find it very exciting and just give me a call brilliant.
Speaker 1:I'll put your Instagram and the contact details, maybe your email. Yeah, brilliant, below all of this. So if anyone wants to contact you, they can do. Is anything you would like to say on a closing note to the world?
Speaker 2:um, I'd just like to say that the EPL is trying to spread the paddle word all across the globe, and Paddle Art have helped us to do that by bringing the first EPL international event to Dubai. Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 1:We've been very lucky. It was a pleasure chatting with you, Chris. I'll let you get back to the tournament. I know you've got a busy day and tomorrow ahead of you. Don't want to keep you too long, but we'll be in touch and we'll do another one together. Another podcast episode in different locations around the world. Definitely Another EPM. I look forward to it. Thanks, Chris All right, good luck.