Humans of Padel
Join your host Max Marsh Pickard, General Manager of Padel Art & Co founder of The Padel Outlet in a weekly entertaining dive into the world of Padel and the people involved in the industry
Humans of Padel
How AI and Technology Are Transforming Padel Court Management
Contact Haris: haris@padelos.co
https://www.padelos.co
The padel industry has evolved from memberships to experience-focused business models, requiring sophisticated booking systems to bridge the gap. Harris, founder of PadelOS, explains how his club-centric platform differs from player-focused marketplaces like Playtomic.
• Padel clubs tend to be more business-minded than traditional tennis clubs, focusing on experience over membership
• Technology creates direct relationships between clubs and players, similar to how airlines now have dedicated apps
• Club-centric systems like PadelOS prioritize operational efficiency versus marketplace systems focused on player acquisition
• AI integration can enhance customer service, optimize court usage, and automate tedious administrative tasks
• Specialized membership models (like student summer memberships) can dramatically increase revenue
• Transitioning from marketplace systems typically causes a temporary dip before producing stronger long-term growth
• Data ownership and direct customer relationships are crucial for ambitious clubs looking to build community
• Future developments include automated training scheduling and personalized recommendations
The sports booking technology landscape is shifting toward systems that empower clubs to control their data, operations, and customer relationships while automating administrative tasks.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Humans of Paddle podcast. I'm your host, max. In this episode I'm joined by Harris, the founder of PaddleOS, a paddle operating system for clubs and human bookings, lessons, etc. In this episode we discuss the development of booking technology over the years, the use of AI and how technology can benefit clubs to optimize their operations. I hope you enjoy the episode as much as I did, harris. Welcome to Dubai. Yeah, how has your trip been so far?
Speaker 2:Hot as we were talking. 45 degrees is just the normal here. It's a shocker to the rest of the world, but here it's normal.
Speaker 1:So we had a couple of conversations. You're here to talk about PaddleOS A bold move, I must say. I mean getting into that business. I mean there's a lot of them, a lot of booking systems. Why did you decide? Wake up one morning and decide I need to start my own paddle booking system?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just for that there's a little history to be. So I have background from tech. My first love has always been tennis, so I love tennis. So I moved to Netherlands to bookingcom and there I saw the whole hospitality industry and see how the whole dynamic is changing between the hotels and the hotel experience versus the Bookingcom experience and the airline. So there was always this rift happening. And then I saw it in sports and I really love to work in sports. I saw it happening in Playtomic, playtomic KMA and they're trying to be the bookingcom. I'm like, oh, it's an interesting space going on.
Speaker 2:But I didn't jump into it directly because I also have a background with a software development company. So first I work with some clients of ours so they do like Scala Sports, they do all the leagues in the Netherlands and now they're powering leagues in the USDA and LTA in London. And then I also partnered with another company which do their tennis in the Netherlands. So that's how we, okay, start building the first piece of software to get custom to what the industry looks like. So I worked for a year and a half in that area to understand and then I saw the same thing is that as a tennis player when I go to clubs. The experience was very shitty compared to anything before getting to the court and after the court there was nothing which year is this?
Speaker 2:this is about almost two years ago. Okay, so that's when I partner with a local Dutch company. They were pretty dominant tennis, so we kind of got, did a partnership and I say I want to go into space, but instead of going alone, let me try to go with some partner and get in. So we partnered with them. They had a good relationship with the local clubs and we built our first version of, let's say, a software under their banner and we brought on one of the first clubs as a test customer. And that's when I realized that, oh, there's a different mindset when it comes to paddle versus tennis. Tennis has always been memberships, old school clubs, but paddle was more about an experience. You know, pay for play, model. So then all the club owners in paddle I found them very interestingly they are more business thinkers, more consumer approach, experienced thinkers, whereas tennis clubs were always about a membership. You give it to a membership a year and that's it, do you think?
Speaker 1:it's because the sport's newer or there's more potential to make money in paddle, or why do you think there's that difference between tennis and paddle?
Speaker 2:I think with any new things, whenever something new comes, they take the best of the old and then make it different. It's nothing about the business itself. I think it's. Obviously it is more social. I've seen, because when I played tennis, I see far more social and fun happening in paddle courts than in the tennis courts. They're all the, whether it's the singles parties going on over there or the groups. So I think there's a social factor to it. As a society we are more used to with more experience, we all were okay with a shitty website for airline. Now we need a check-in, we need a seat picker. So one of the data I saw was that, if you look at even your own phone, five years ago or eight years ago you had no airline app on your phone. You would buy it from an airline company or from skyscanner and you never had an app. Now everybody either has a emirates app or united or individual airlines they fly frequently with. They all care about miles.
Speaker 1:They can always interest it why do you think that is? Because, I mean, you're right. Actually, I mean, five years ago I had no apps on my phone. Yeah, I would book through skyyscanner the cheapest possible option. But if I think back to my previous airline purchases over the past few months, I've actually downloaded the app of that company.
Speaker 2:Because now they provide you services. Now you know there is a reason to download the app because you can check in, you can pick a seat, you might get an upgrade, you might want to go through a faster security lane system, you want to add a baggage thing. None of those services were available in the past, so there was no need to download an app. There was no need to have a relationship between an airline and a customer. Similarly with hotels. Now you will see more and more hotels are saying, hey, download our app. And all these groups of hotels say we're going to all be like Hilton or Alco or others. I'm going to give you points. I'm going to give you free drinks because something has to be offered.
Speaker 2:I think the same thing was happening in sports, in tennis clubs and others. There was nothing to offer beside a tennis court or any other gym facility. Now you see there's a classes, there's a membership. You guys are offering extra services lessons, tournament, open matches. So the level of service between a facility and a player has grown. Now how do you accommodate this? Either you hire a gazillion people in each club and provide the services, or it has to be automated, and that's where the software piece comes in. So that's where the relationship between the customer and the club has to be established, because now you're offering things, you want to make it easier, seamless and also make money and also make sure that it's not a chaos, because you don't want to have a chaos at your reception desk, yeah of course.
Speaker 1:But for the non-tech savvy people like me, why specifically an app? Why not just log into someone's website? Why has the whole app culture become so big?
Speaker 2:yeah so uh, so there are two things to it. Number one, in the context in general, app versus a web view or anything is just because an app provides you more functionality, more direct accessibility, especially push notifications in the zone, in the location, alerts, check-ins and chat, and all that In context of Paddle. Again, they will be clubs and when we were launching Paddle OS, there were some clubs who don't, let's say. I put them two categories they're clubs or hobby clubs. And then they are serious, ambitious clubs. Hobby clubs are people who four or five friends got together, they bought four coats and they see maybe it will make money. So for them, their customer, it doesn't matter whichever platform they are, because services is just one part of it. Then there are ambitious clubs who want to have relationship, who want to offer services, who want to increase the revenue per customer, who want to have relationship, who want to offer services, who want to increase the revenue per customer, engagement per customer. For them they need power tools.
Speaker 2:Now, sure, once a customer walks into the court, you can do a lot of the facilities and stuff like that. But, as we all used to it, now we need unlike the previous generation we want everything pre-planned, we want to pre-book something, we want to make sure it's there when we are there. So then you need the tech.
Speaker 2:So that's where you we don't want to talk to people and we don't want to talk to people, true, but more than talking to people, I see and understand that, even though in sports you do want to come for some social factor, the issue is that our lives are so busy, that our lives are so busy and we're used to such a structured life that it feels odd when you come to a game of tennis or padel for two, three hours because you invest two, three hours of your life in this Drive here park. Eat all that and it's all chaotic. So for that you need these services. In Hence, the best way to do it is with an app, but as you are managing a club, it's harder to far harder to provide that service on a digital platform if everything is not in sync in the back office and the team.
Speaker 1:Honestly and I've said this before on the podcast like a huge key to success I mean, not just in sports business and a lot of businesses is capturing that data, analyzing that data of the customer and see how often they're playing, what time are they playing and who these people are and how can I get them back, whereas before people would come and they'd play. You'd have no idea who these people were. You would just have the money coming to the account, which is great. But then how do you retarget? How do you get in touch with these people? Exactly All that is done through tech, and.
Speaker 2:But this is true. But then again I also say is that a lot of people ask us that the reason they want to maybe work with PaddleOS is because of data. But my question is always is that okay, what are you going to do with the data? Great, you get it, but not everybody is skilled enough, good enough and smart enough to understand how to capitalize this data. So that's where another problem comes in, that okay, even if you have it, all these questions, you're saying that okay, I want to retarget someone. The problem is we all get retargeted a lot, but we don't fall for it. So how do we distinguish a good retarget from an annoying retarget which you're just going to block? So just because something can happen and some retargeting and some access to data can happen, doesn't mean it will result in a good experience. That's where I think the whole relationship between the club and the customer still has to play. The app and the data is just a tool. So how should the club use this data? I think it depends on multiple factors, what I've seen with some of our clubs. So, just of context, we are still a new company.
Speaker 2:The Paddle OS in its new incarnation was launched just early this year. So we have a couple of clubs and what we have seen from that experience is if you can tailor something very specific to that club's own locale, then it makes sense. Otherwise a genetic thing doesn't work. And that's why we come in existence, because my thesis is always that a paddle OS is design club centric. We're not to dish on Playtomic but, yes, the Playtomic will always, or any of these global marketers will always think of the global experience or maybe a city. My goal, or Pataloy's goal, is to create the experience in that club and vicinity, to create the best community experience. So, for example, we all have membership ideas, but one of our clubs in Amsterdam we work with Alex say you know what, instead of just throwing a random membership, why don't we come up with a membership which is only specific for three months of summers, specifically targeted for students? And the way it is supposed to be designed is that it's only for the player part, so that I get a discount, non-peak hours and I encourage others to bring in, especially younger generation. So if I'm a student and I know I'm free, I will bring more students in and more people in to book the court and non-peak hours. So when we started it he was like remember, like okay, this is a very specific thing, we're charging 60 euros, or more 70 euros, for the membership for three months and the idea was maybe 50 people will use it, it will be a success. I think now it has crossed over 200. Oh, wow, just very specific use case.
Speaker 2:Now this is a type of membership which is not common. It's only for May till August. It has very specific restrictions which our system allows to provide it instead of a cookie-cutter membership. So that, I think, is an example of how you can fine-tune the data looking at, because that club is very close to schools and colleges, it was summertime and we saw, okay, how to attract the students in and it kind of worked. So that's an example I can come up with where it's specific. Obviously, I've seen some clubs in the UK are very specific on memberships. You guys use membership but in a lot of other countries they don't use memberships at all, like in Netherlands is very uncommon.
Speaker 1:Even in Dubai, to be honest, it's still not a lot of clubs are using it because from, let's say, from the club perspective, in theory you can make more money just as pay as you go yeah, as you play. But we've actually realized, having the membership, even if we're making less per hour, overall we're generating more money, which is interesting because people stay longer in the club, they're playing more often, they're bringing more, but I'm curious, when not nobody was doing it, what made you guys try it?
Speaker 1:for me it was going to be inevitable, it was going to happen. And also it's a club. It's all about community and it's about retention, and a lot of the clubs were very greedy of like let's just charge people and keep charging them, pay as you play, we don't care about if they come back. They will come back because there's not enough clubs. But, yeah, you reach a point where there are enough clubs. What we want to do is create that loyalty from now and have a customer base that keeps coming back, that loves paddle art and that keeps driving the club forward. That was the idea behind it. Probably we could have made a little bit more money over a six-month period, but in the long run, I believe it will benefit us hugely to have done this from now.
Speaker 2:Obviously, and you guys sell six months in a year, monthly, and in a year, monthly in a year, yeah, and I'm guessing majority are monthly, majority are monthly. So, exactly, so think the the thing is is with this industry in a, when you guys took a gamble, or with the trait of moving to this thing, I think a lot of clubs are going to start making these gambles and a lot of other things. The challenge is how to make those gambles happen with the least amount of effort. Uh, and the way because that's where we're trying to be that allow the ability to clubs like you guys and others to experiment without worrying that it's going to be such a nightmare that you're managing three Excel sheets or some accounting hassle. Because the rest of the tech industry, where I come from, they have kind of perfected the art of experimentation. Like, if you look at Bookingcom and some other companies, they are running thousands of experiments on their website every day because they build the infrastructure and the tech to do it.
Speaker 2:The challenge is those things are not available to someone like clubs or sports category, because where they can say, hey, I want to try this membership for this type of members and this type of membership with this. But now, where do you promote it? If you put it on Insta, everybody sees it. Then there's more calls coming in why I can't join it. But ideally, just like an airline, if I'm an elite member I get to pick a seat. If I'm not an elite member, like I see with Emirates, when does the upgrade window open? Now I don't have to call Emirates for anything. Similar thing has to happen here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, even without membership. One of the reasons for its success was because we had our own booking system, which obviously is part of the conversation we're going to have today. It's because, I mean, we're happy with our booking system.
Speaker 2:I know you're going to try and get me, yeah that's why I'm here, that's why we reached to you guys first place. I mean the idea is.
Speaker 1:I mean, you want Paddle Art to move over to Paddle OS and I need to understand why should we do that? And I think it's good that we can have this conversation also recorded. But one of the reasons our membership worked is because we have our own booking system and most of our membership is pushed towards match play before 5 pm. There's a lot of people available, but people didn't know other people were available at that time, so connecting them through the matchmaking of our own application, which Playtomic wasn't allowing us to do, that was a huge part of our success. So, using the tech that we already had, that was instrumental in us being able to make this membership work, and that's why other clubs aren't able to make their memberships work.
Speaker 2:It's because they can't fill the courts at that time and they can't connect the players at the time where they want to use that membership.
Speaker 2:So, talking about that point actually it's a perfect example of why we think we exist is that when you did one transition to the other because of this particular need, which was open matches or some other specific need of approaching a customer, and that's the same place we are trying to pitch you that, hey, we can offer these things. But I think the real game in this space is going to be not about what features anybody bring to the table. It's going to be how fast they can deliver and how quickly they can move. Because the way to win in software is two ways Either you are so cheap and so fully completed and automated, or you're so fast Like they're the platomics of the world. We're a far bigger war chest in marketing budget. And then there are, like us, who I think we only have the chance of winning if we can adapt to your needs the fastest possible in the least complicated and friction way, and that's where we are approaching so why can Pada Lois do that, but Playtonic can't do that?
Speaker 2:So there are a couple of reasons for it. So number one is basically, if you're smaller and you're more hungry or more ambitious but playtomic can't do that. So there are a couple of reasons for it. So number one is basically, if you're smaller and you're more hungrier and more ambitious, that it's the same thing as saying why couldn't, let's say, uh, any tennis player in the rank 10 beat federer or any of them every day? At that moment you need it's, it's a, it's a, it's a contact sport. You have to fight harder and harder every day, so there's always the grit factor which will play in everything. The second thing is, with this, what I assume with the platonic of the world, or the bigger, the way they look at it, is that they fundamentally want to be the relationship between a paddle player and the paddle sports, so they want to be the wall between it, and the clubs are just a utility which they are providing, just like a sky scanner or airline. They don't care which airline you go to, as long as you sell a seat through them. Same thing as a platonic.
Speaker 2:And I think for them to make decisions which are very specific to your club makes very hard. For example, we were talking about your request for recurring bookings or how to make open matches very specific, let's say a group open match we were talking about. Or take an example of rating system. Now the rating system which works for you in this region might be very different than a rating system which might work in Abu Dhabi, which might work in Netherlands. Now our rating system can be specified for each club, each location, to each particular vicinity.
Speaker 2:Now Playtomic can do it, but it goes against their brand of being a global, natural, let's say, a global brand. For Playtomic it's very hard to do it locally. So I think that's where the approach happens that they can't do those things so fast enough, quick enough, and do it in a way that they don't create that those things so fast enough, quick enough, and do it in a way that they they don't create a mess for all the clubs. You know the reason we hope to exist and the reason. Now I'm not saying that all the clubs are moving to us, but I do think that, considering that we're only in the market for, let's say, one year in the development time, and clubs are talking to us, it's like a dating game we are flirting, but they have not moved. The only reason we can do it is because of the same reason that they see the pace of their needs being met are very slow.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess, if Playtomic makes a decision, first of all there's the whole hierarchy of that decision being made. Yeah, but then, like you said, it impacts every single club. They're not doing a solution per club, they're doing a global solution, right? So would you say that then you're more focused on the club, whereas Playtomic is more focused on the player?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So for us, our job is not. Parallel's goal is not to be when a player books a quote with a parallel art. They should never know about us. We exist, we are just the operation tool at the back end. So for us, the way we look at it is you use MailChimp, you use other marketing tools. Your customer has no idea. They just know they're getting a great email experience, they're getting a great tool, they're getting a great marketing campaign on Instagram. It's the content, it's the tool. So we want to be on the backside of it.
Speaker 2:But obviously there are ways of when you have that view, you have a certain freedom. Like I don't have certain freedom when it comes to being a marketplace, because I can't tell you I'm going to bring you a lot of customers, because that's something I can't do, that's not my core strength. Playtomic or other marketplaces can do that because they can do marketing on the public to bring more traffic in their app. But what they most probably can't do and we can most probably do is go to the nitty-gritty and use cases of your club and say, oh, that's where the deficiency is, as we were talking about it, how you manage a recurring booking and you say, hey, we do this here, but we do this payments on the site.
Speaker 2:Why are your recurring bookings or group bookings locked on one platform but the payments have to be managed on other? For all those use cases? That has to be brought into the system. And that's where we come in, because if we can make those operations easy for you, we think we have a higher chance of convincing clubs like you to say hey, I see these thousand small tons of pains. If I get rid of all those minor hundreds of those, it becomes a great, not only a saving, but like a pain. And that's where we are specializing in in how to find all those areas of pain and remove it.
Speaker 1:So which kind of clubs would you say you're targeting? Because when we first opened we went with Playtomic and I'm sure I mean I'm only talking about the UAE but I'm sure globally most clubs that first opened they will go with the generic systems that will bring in players Because you want traffic right. So if you're not targeting those and I don't know, maybe if you can't compete with them, because I mean they're the size of Playtomic who are you targeting?
Speaker 2:So our target audience is, as we said, they're hobby clubs and they're ambitious clubs or professional clubs. So we're focusing on the clubs which are bigger, which have maybe either multi locations, are the ideal club for us, or clubs like you guys, which are bigger, who run community, who have an ambition to basically either grow the community here. So that's where we're, those are the ones, the ones are the and especially the multi-location ones. We're talking to most of them and you're correct that there are some cities like, let's say, hamburg is one city and there are some clubs over there. Obviously I can't name them, but they literally saw our system and they say we love it. But they say we can't move because we have the fear and this city is very new to paddle. We don't sure whether we can move away from that and I understand the fear and I say you know what? There's no hurry, that's fine. Take a while, take a six month, take a year, understand where you stand a year from now and then you can look at it. So we are not in a hurry to, I think, where we or not just us there, obviously some other clubs, software again, I think, wherever the.
Speaker 2:So the way I look at Paddle is this there was this honeymoon phase where there was a boom. Everybody got on board, clubs were open, people were introduced thanks to Playtomic, thanks to other clubs, softwares like MatchEye, and now the industry is going through a stage where it has to consolidate and has to say okay, where the revenue is going to come, where the clubs who are investing millions of dollars into the facilities, where the return is going to come, what is the operation efficiency of my clubs are going to be. So now I think we're getting to the stage where the hobby and the boom goes, the honeymoon phase goes. Now the real grunt work comes in, where every club has to make money and to stay afloat. And I think I don't know here, but we have seen this whole Sweden 2.0. They say in Sweden there was a lot of. They had a summit which you introduced me to go. They all talk about the same thing, that never to repeat what happened in Sweden. I don't know the much details of it, but what I understood was there was an over supply side, was then demand.
Speaker 2:So, in short, those are the areas where we can compete and we bring with the depth of our features like, say an example, private lessons. Sure, in theory, everybody says they have private lessons or they say they have tournaments. But if you look at our solution, we go to the every extent possibility that, okay, how availability is scheduled, how I can buy one session, but then I can buy three sessions together with it, the discount, book one and book the three remaining later. How do we do automated emails to the customer again that, hey, the three are left with you, you should book it up quickly. So that's where I think we are more in the trenches of the edge cases and the depth of the product rather than the breadth, like covering everything.
Speaker 2:So, yes, cities where Pedal is new city locations where clubs are totally dependent on the platonic or any marketplace, we will not be the right fit, or at least right now. But where there are clubs who are bigger clubs and they want to ultimately say I want to build my relationship with the customer, I don't want to be dependent on a company where if they change the pricing, they change the contract, I can't do anything. Or they worry that we are investing a lot of money in our clubs but we are not building our own community because we're always competing with the other club, then those clubs are now considering us, or this approach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think that makes sense and I feel like we were there when we decided to move over to our current system as well, once you've built that community and you want to optimize for that community as well, and that's when it makes sense to move away from the bigger aggregators.
Speaker 2:Yeah, matter of fact, actually I will ask you a question that, and if your answer is what I'm hoping is, then I will use that as a soundbite for my marketing. Because you guys moved from Playtomic to another system and I'm guessing financially speaking it was not a downward, it was an upward. Your revenue, I guess, did not get as hurt as you were maybe at that time going from Playtomic to the other.
Speaker 1:I mean the first month. It was a bit of a challenge. There's always a teething period, especially when you move to a completely new system and it doesn't work as well as you'd hope as well. That can also cause a bit of tension and we wanted to move away from everyone messaging us and calling us to book, to book through the application. Also, the timing might not have been perfect because we did it kind of in the winter, so obviously there were more options for people to play outdoors than indoors, so maybe doing it at more peak time would have been better, and it took a little bit of time for people to download the app, start using the app and we only made bookings available through that system. We could not book through phone call or through WhatsApp.
Speaker 2:Which is not very common here in Dubai.
Speaker 1:People are getting there now, I think, but I mean still for a lot of services people just want to pick up the phone or send a message and get someone else to do it for you. It's very much a service culture in Dubai, so we were forcing people to use this obligation. It was the only way that they could book calls. So we took a little bit of a for a month, like we had about a 25 percent drop based on what it should have been. But for the past 18 months now we've seen considerable growth and better than where we were before, which is what we want exactly so much more knowledge of our community, etc.
Speaker 2:So, as I said, this is the perfect soundbite for us. Good for you. Yeah, exactly so. I think that's where a lot of clubs feel the fear of any system change, especially going from a marketplace or non-marketplace. Because it has two advantages Because now you're, as they say, right, what is the proverb? You're the captain of your own ship, kind of situation. Now everything is in your own hands. Obviously, if you're good with it, you can now can also grow bigger. But if you don't want to take the control, then obviously it's safer, but then the growth doesn't come. So in your case, because you guys have been focused on this, the growth comes and obviously now we're trying to convince you guys to see how do we increase that growth further? Right, that's the game. Ultimately, whichever system or whichever processes any club is following, if we can't increase the game, ultimately, that whichever system or whichever processes any club is following, if we can't increase the revenue, what's the point?
Speaker 1:Exactly, I mean the world would Exactly.
Speaker 2:Why would anybody entertain anyone to change the system? Because why would go through the hassle of going through it. So one of the reasons I think, and why again a lot of these things, are about timing. I mean, a lot of people know about this or maybe don't that at the time, I think, when Facebook came along, there were 100 and something social networks, and MySpace was already a winner. Then there was another one called Orkut, and then there were a few others and then Facebook came along, and still, sometime. Timing is everything. So I think we think at least I think that's why we took a bet on this that the way a lot of old systems were being built in the last 10 years for 10S and others, they were not built on the new tech stack. They were not built in a way that they could be faster, better, user-friendly. So what?
Speaker 1:does that mean for people who aren't particularly tech?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So think of it this way, right, think of a simple way of the cars. You know the cars used to come, and 10 years ago they were clunky, they were big. Now all your modern cars have thousands of features from China and others and it's because the tech has enabled them to build the factories which can produce all this complicated stuff. Plus, it's electric, so all the experiences, the dynamics in the car can be software updated, so the car is almost like a software computer. Now it's no longer the mechanical device we are used to.
Speaker 2:Similarly, the softwares in sports categories today, whether it's paddle or anything built in the last year or two, are built in a way that are far more faster to it's just a technological leap are far more faster to it's just a technological leap far more faster to upgrade, far more quicker, easier infrastructure to do all the things we are promising to do or providing our customers to do, versus, let's say, something which was built 10 years ago. And you can see that friction in every part of the world. There are companies who use airlines, who use like old sap systems, and you know it. When you go to their website you're like this software has not been updated and then you go to the new fancy airlines and they have these fancy beautiful apps and experiences at the end. The sap can also do it or all, but it's just all clunky software. You can't overnight convert it. It's just. Sometimes the timing is also the thing. Maybe we will also challenge ourselves.
Speaker 1:Somebody other will get up in three years from now and they will challenge us, Especially the tech space. It changes very quickly right and everything is moving very fast, and 10 years in that space is a really really long time, Exactly. But obviously the buzzword at the moment is AI. Everything is AI, right. So are you using AI in paddle hoists? How will it come into booking systems? How do you think AI is going to change the future of the way that we book a?
Speaker 2:paddle court. So one of the reasons actually I got into this space was because of my interest in AI, because obviously, as a tech person, you want to get into the space. But my problem was that how do I get into the AI? Like, how do I use AI in an industry where I can make a benefit to the industry itself? So, just to context, there are a lot of AI companies you will see about chat, gpt, hrs and others and there's a very heavily populated industry right now. So I don't want to go there. So I thought, okay, what's the best way to do is apply in sports. So if you look at any sports operation like yours, you have people, you have operation, you have stuff. So that got me excited that if I can automate most of it, then I think I'm really putting the use of proper AI rather than a buzzword AI. So how does it look like in parallel today and maybe six months from now and a few years from now? So today we hardly use it much. We use it for a little bit of our own development and all that.
Speaker 2:What we will see in next few months is, let's say, a more refined version of a chat GPT where you ask questions you as an administrator but it gives you very specific answers. For example, you say why can't I book a quote at this time? Why is it giving me error? Then it will say, hey, it can't book a quote because you set this policy and this policy in this settings. That's why the system is not allowing you. Or you say, hey, why are Harris's payments have not been done? Then it goes to the system and says, hey, because his credit card was changed. His previous membership was on a credit card all which got expired. Now he has to put a new credit card. So go ask him to update the membership. So we're trying to answer your questions with a very specific data from our system, rather than giving a cookie cutter answer. Go to settings, go to memberships and find ours and do whatever you know. So that's step one, because now we click on everything right, exactly.
Speaker 2:So that's what's coming in the next six months for us, that how do we almost become your very specific answer machine, which you maybe call me like hey, I can't understand why it's happening in the system. So that's step one. Step two for us will be and I is obviously taking over all your support. So we're working with some clubs that say, instead of you answering all the customer support, we will be your level one support, so all the customer securities to your club will come to us, the club. The players will still think they're contacting paddle art, but they're actually contacting our software. We will answer their questions. You can't do this.
Speaker 2:Your membership is not working like a chatbot kind of thing yes, it will be a chatbot or a voice thing, and your, your whatsapp number will become our number and the call can come to us crazy even now, even though we're using, we're trying to force people through the app.
Speaker 1:if you go to the, we literally have two receptionists sitting there typing away, constantly answering people's questions, and there's so much time that they spend doing that.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So. That's, let's say, the first real vision for our AI to take away that hassle so that those people of yours can focus on the customer experience here, they can make more tournaments, more fun stuff in the vicinity, instead of dealing with all these administrative issues which actually a software can do easily. So let's say that's the near term. The little longer term will be where I think, where the AI should for us is going to happen is that ideally, there should be a max agent in the paddle OS which you basically pick your phone, just like you do with ChatGPT, and say, hey, last three tournaments, which were really good, can you schedule tournaments in Paddle Art for the next six months? Which makes the best sense, use the best text, use the best most usable image, artwork and all that, and it automatically looks at that, creates it and drafts it and creates it for you. So basically, I won't need to do anything, you will only need to approve and give guidance. So if you look at recent videos I don't know if you're on Insta or TikTok that much, but you've seen all these funny videos of gorillas doing a point of view made by VO3. It's basically AI-generated videos where they show in the 90s, let's say in the 1700s, a guy is walking with a mic, exactly, I'll put one of those, or the gorilla saying the point of view where he's talking in an accent. Now, if you look at all those videos, those funny videos, where is the creativity? It's the person who is writing the script, the guy who comes up with the idea that I'm going to use a gorilla to have an Australian accent and talk about protein and workout and how I'm going to reach you know, that concept is the killer feature. The output is generated by VO3, the model, the creativity is still there, exactly.
Speaker 2:So in your case, the long-term thing is basing on looking at the customer data, looking at the thing what is the best tournament and best form of tournament should happen in which day? Or what is the best group which will have the best open matches with each other, what type of activities we can do on an everyday basis here to drive the best experience for tournaments, for matches, for one-on-one communication. The problem is, maybe you will find someone, hire someone to do it and that one person he or she is amazing, but then there are thousands of clubs all over the world. How they find a similar talent? So this is where we come in that, okay, based on the understanding of your data and the knowledge of the AI, you can automate a lot of these things where you're basically literally just like chat GPT You're chatting with the system and telling him your wishes. I wish I could do this kind of a game here, and ideally it should happen, but could I?
Speaker 1:I mean, this is more like a futuristic thing. It's probably not even that complicated, but from my perspective, could I put my knowledge somehow, put my knowledge of the operations of a panel club into the system where it would make decisions based off how I think.
Speaker 1:So let's say you know, part of my job is I schedule tournaments throughout the day okay, or I decide, okay, we need to do more events for this level, these these kind of basic tasks. Instead of me doing that, could it automatically, or suggest at least to them like, okay, you guys are doing all this, this is good, you should do this. I mean, it's kind of back to what you're saying, but without me being the creative person behind it. I could feed it my knowledge or my analysis of certain use cases and then, well then I probably get fired because I wouldn't need it anymore, but then it could operate as a like a manager on my behalf it can and.
Speaker 2:But the thing is is that what is the input? The input is already there in your system. So when you have created all these events and tournament in last six months, that's the input. Let's say, you created a tournament at uh or an event or a training at 9 am versus 8 am and you saw that 9 am were all sold, but 8 am were never getting sold on a certain day. Now the thing is technically, the data is there to actually work with you to say you say hey, can you make all eight o'clock trainings? The systems automatically say great, but I think the 9 am is better on Tuesdays because, but 8 am is.
Speaker 2:So I think it's more of a, not of a just like replacing you. That's where the debate of AI is. It's actually augmenting your skillset, Just like we use ChatGPD to not replace me, but improve me. So this system ideally, in the long run, should help you, give you a feedback that maybe you should not do this or maybe you should do this. Similarly, it's as simple as when you write a title of an event, Ideally just like ChatGPT or any of these things. When you write a title, it can suggest you that you know what, maybe, instead of saying this and this title and maybe use these words, it has a higher chances of. So it's all these small cognitive things we do every day, which you are doing every day picking a time, picking a description, picking an image, picking it.
Speaker 2:Let's say, for example, all the events and trainings and tournaments you do. I know it's very hard to create a poster of it and then putting it on Insta, but technically, if you look at it, if I look at the description and I look at the parallel assets and artwork, I can generate a beautiful video of it instantly, the UAI, and then automatically post it on Insta. You don't have to do another label work of creating oh, who's going to make a poster of this tournament, who's going to make a poster of this thing? The thing is it's, like you know, as I say, a dead by a thousand cards. Similarly, it's a growth by a thousand, small thousand steps.
Speaker 2:You have to take these small, small, small, small steps to get the aggregate growth you want to grow. It's not going to be this one big bang thing you're going to do and all of a sudden, your revenue is going to grow 10% next month. It has to be all these minor, minor things you have to do. But the problem is not everybody is good at it and it's so much work that sometimes people think is it really worth doing? I have a headache for this because it's too much repetitive work. So that's where I think the AI can help. So how far?
Speaker 1:in the future. Do you think we'll get to that?
Speaker 2:I don't know about how far the people will get, how far we will get it. I think, as I said, our goal is by the next six months. We are already working on this agent piece, where some of these things can be automatically replicated, helps you with titles and descriptions and helps you with automation saying, hey, this type of thing can be sent out alerts and all that, I think, where it can also get to the point by the year end where you can literally write, say, can you create three tournaments for me using the best descriptions and the best titles for the winter? And it will create it, but it will save it as a draft and it's not published. It's saved as a draft for you to see it and then you can review the last one before you publish it. So I think these things, these automations, our customers will see it in next Q3. And will it reach?
Speaker 1:a point as well, Because we mentioned earlier now, when you book things, you click on everything and you do this. Will it be like I can type book me a call Friday 5 pm and it will book it for me?
Speaker 2:I mean technically, that's also possible right now, really, yeah, it's not that hard, it's not actually. Anybody can do it. We can do it tomorrow. Problem is this that, uh, if you use your own experience from chat, gpts or others of the world, people don't like to type a lot and for these repetitive, simple tasks the current experience is really good enough. So I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Use cases like booking. A code will make sense. Where the case will happen is there will be. The best case will be a player will say you know what I want to do a training this year, and I want to. As we're talking about it, I want to go to is there will be. The best case will be a player will say you know what I want to do a training this year, and I want to. As we're talking about it, I want to go to level XY in next six months. What do I need to do?
Speaker 2:And then it comes and talks to our agent and the club says hey, you want to go to this level. I think you should do 10 sessions, one training and play with 10 games and these are the players you should play with. Now the player says oh, I want to play with these 50 players you recommended. Can you communicate with them to book me a session, coordinate quotes with me, because I have to now message 50 people and say are you available on Thursday, are you available Friday?
Speaker 2:So those are complicated things which AI can really help, but codebooking is such a rudimentary, simple thing it will never help. It's these complicated things where players will say that's where the aha moment for all of us. Or I don't know if you guys have used ChatGPT to extend, but I sometimes use it really nicely in some cases where, as we say, like all the feedback we get from customers, like the clubs, all I do is I dump all those emails into a charge of BD and I say, hey, these are all the customers' feedback in different emails and chats and voice chats have come to me. Take them and, from the tone of their voice notes and the tone of the text, prioritize them and make a table and then put it in Excel. So I asked my club managers to send me voice notes and I just copy the voice notes put similar want it to happen soon, I need to make sure that voice notes very aggressive exactly so.
Speaker 2:So this is ideally, if you're talking about the real AI. Ideally, instead of typing, you should be just telling them, talking into it, like, yes, that I that use. I do see that you pick up a phone and say, hey, book me a code at 3 pm. If 3.1 is not available, book it at 6 pm, and if 6 is not available, book at 9 o'clock. Doing these three things is where AI can help, because now… it's like Siri, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or like your personal assistant. You said okay, I can play at three or I can play at six, or I can play at nine. Book at any of these three in this priority. This you cannot do by doing this, you can speak and that is something we're going to target for dude. It's more than one step.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I mean there's a lot of interesting things that are going to come in the next 12 months. I mean, obviously, with tech, AI and free booking systems, and we discussed a little bit about how you're focused on the clubs and the benefit for the clubs, but what would you say, is what's your 30-second elevator pitch? Let's say to a club. A club manager is listening to this and is like, okay, it all sounds very nice and spaceships coming in the future.
Speaker 2:But right now, what's your 30 second pitch for a club, let's say me, for paddle art, to become a customer of paddlers? I think, um the I. I never like this 30 second push thing because it it dumps it down to some sound bites and those sign bites never really converted that sound by into track gpt and see what no yeah, I mean, I tried it.
Speaker 2:it's funny enough. I tried putting all our marketing material in ChartGPT and say give me a one-liner, two-liner and it always comes up with these generic words and all in one platform to do all your bookings and all that. I think the challenge is this and just to go back on context, this elevator pitch idea. This actually worked really well 10 years ago or five years ago because everything was easily explainable. Like people will say book a taxi anywhere that was Uber. Book a hotel anywhere that was Airbnb. So those taglines really worked in that world.
Speaker 2:Today, if you say those taglines in today's world, they will be like duh, obviously I can book a taxi anyway. If you ask that to the next generation, they're like what are you talking about? That's not so. I think. I don't have a 30 second elevator pitch for this, but I do think is that the way we see is is if you're a club who fundamentally believes that we want to grow our revenue and we want to grow our revenue by having a direct relationship with the customer, then which are the best tools possible out there in the marketplace which will help me do it in the least complicated way? We think we are the best tool for doing that.
Speaker 1:I think that's a very good elevator pitch.
Speaker 2:That's how I can put it.
Speaker 1:That's relatively simple as well, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yes, only if the clubs. And it comes with a nuance that if there's clubs who are listening to it and they say, oh yes, I want to do it, I want to be the one who wants to have a relationship with the customer, then, yes, pidal OS will resonate. Then there are a lot of clubs you will also know. They will say I don't really. I set up as a hobby project, I put it on, I up as a hobby project, I put it on. Uh, I, I really don't know who the customers are coming in, as long as somebody keeps sending me the customers that's good enough for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the keyword is good enough yeah, exactly so for them.
Speaker 2:They will just skip my 30 second pitch and they'll say, yeah, I don't know what he's talking about, the word relationship and engagement and all those things. So I think that's where it becomes is like there there is a certain segment of the clubs who it resonates with and that's where we are pitching them and trying to get them converted. I like that. That's quite good.
Speaker 1:Paddle OS by the name Paddle? Yeah, in the future, are you planning to extend beyond Paddle? Do you currently only operate for Paddle? Are there other sports involved?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so obviously we do multi-sports, we do tennis, we do squash. Some of our clubs are also using it. Matter of fact, some of our clubs are also bringing in gym memberships and restaurants and point of sale. So it's all combining.
Speaker 2:The reason I came up with the word PaddleOS was the idea was the same. We don't want to be a closed system. So we came up with the word PaddleOS was the idea was same. We don't want to be a closed system. So we came up with the Paddle operating system. And the idea came because I wanted to build a system where everything can be integrated. So if you're working with a third party tournament system, or in Dubai you have WPPR, you want to integrate. They are in Amsterdam.
Speaker 2:There are a couple of companies who are providing very niche events. They're expat groups. There's something called Hi5. We try to work with them. So I'm saying, instead, you as a club manager has to go to each one of them and figure out a way to coordinate with them and all that. Ideally, you say, yeah, I have the system. Great, log in, here's an account for you. So ultimately, my goal is to create a system where a club is an operating system. It can work with any package as long as the club is in control of the data. Club is in control of who has access, what policies, who can do what with my players, because what I see is the club is the one who has made the maximum capital investment in this industry, nobody else. So they should be in charge of deciding whether the rest is all allowed. Just like you use Slack or your operating system, you allow some software to come in or not. So that's how we came up with this name, and take it with that approach.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what's the goal? What's the plan in five years?
Speaker 2:Okay. So what's the goal? What's the plan in five years? I wish I can justify it as a or have can sum it up in my head as a exactly what it is five years. But I would say, as my North Star would be, that if we could be the company, not just in parallel, but in a thing where pretty much all the human resources, all the clubs, spend the capital they spend, it's not focused on the operations, it's not focused on coordination, it's actually focused on how to create the best experience for the players in the club and everything else is automated. So it's not that we are reducing the number of people in your staff, but all the people you have in the staff. They are creating special tournaments. You hire more trainers, you hire more tournament organizers instead of reception people who can do all the operation accounting, payrolls. Everything else should be done by us. The rest should be done by us, you think the accounting as well, you can do that?
Speaker 2:The goal is eventually yes, because I think the way the world is happening is that a lot of these clubs and sports categories anything use genetic accounting softwares and then they have to modify and smudge the data. Let's say, a training lesson has to be broken down into 50 sessions. Now all accountants go crazy that I want it this way, this way. So I think eventually we will want to be in a situation where we can do all of it in the same software so that it's less headache on the club. So already as one of our clubs in Germany, we had to rebuild a lot of our VAT sector because VAT in the VAT in.
Speaker 2:Germany is very confusing and because if you are a member, you have a different VAT. If I'm a non-member, I have a different VAT. If you are a member and you invited me as a guest, then I get a different vat. Why? A regulation sometime can be pain in the ass, so in in this case it is. So we had to modify a lot of these things, but without making their life hectic. So if the north star will be a few years from now, you are literally managing this club with you, with the least amount of people in the operation, and everything is done by us operating.
Speaker 2:That will be the north star for me that's quite an ambition, yeah, I mean, I don't think it's technically it's not possible. It is possible the the challenge is how to do it in a way that, uh, you have the right access to the thing. As I said, you can do a lot of these things even today, but you have to combine six offers. So it's not unheard of. Obviously it also depends on the market of paddle. If paddle as a sport keeps growing, as we are hearing, it's going to go and maybe go to the Olympics, maybe it will be part of the US college system If it grows as big as we think. Because it's funny enough, somebody was talking to me that day that paddle is an interesting sport. Where it's the fastest growing, it's the most popular with most of the younger generation, but you can't name one professional player. Most of the people, most people, yeah.
Speaker 1:Most of the people can't.
Speaker 2:It's an amateur game still, whereas in tennis most of the people don't play it but they can name most of the top players. So I guess it's a sport where it's going to grow, where it's a sport where it's going to grow where it's more being played.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the amateur side of padel has grown a lot more than the professional side of padel. Yeah, especially in the past 10 years. I mean the prize money has increased, but the visibility of the players is ridiculous compared to.
Speaker 2:In a way it might be a good thing. I also think because I for myself, because when I see professional players play I don't know they play at such a crazy level that sometimes it's disheartening. When I see Roger and other play I'm like I can never hit the shot like that, yeah. So it becomes like uh, you know you're trying to emulate that experience. I think the way I like parallel is because it's such a. It's a vacuum of its own and you, everybody is new and you're playing and there's no structure.
Speaker 1:But you need the top, like the famous. Well, famous is a big word in paddle, but the top players to be known to also inspire the younger generations to play, to compete and to push to become professional. That's if the sport is going to continue to grow. I mean it's never going to reach tennis, but at least.
Speaker 2:I mean in 2D, yes, but you but you would you know. The joke is that I was talking about trying to read. Actually, I asked chad gpd about it. There are a lot of other sports activities you do hobbies which there are no experts like, even board games. People play poker and all these cards. I mean, if you look at it, there's big businesses gambling and card game, but you will not know a single professional player.
Speaker 1:I mean professional poker was big for a while when it first came online, Exactly.
Speaker 2:So there are no, let's say, celebrities in that space, but you will enjoy playing it, True? So I don't know, paddle will be a category where it will be something like a Monopoly game, where everybody loves to play these board games and have everyone in the house, but yet there is no single tournament of Monopoly. Or it is something you just watch more, or it's consumed more, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean any sport like paddle and squash that has a glass or some barrier on TV. They tend to struggle a bit in terms of viewership because of the viewership experience from the outside. You're a little bit disconnected from it all.
Speaker 2:But it's better in person.
Speaker 1:It's better in person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you can see a lot of games just stand there and watch each other's games. But in tennis obviously it's a bit more spread out. So I enjoy paddle watching in person way more than in tv, because also the sound effects, the bang and then and it's far more faster, whereas any other sports could be much more.
Speaker 1:But anyway that's a different uh, I mean the sport's growing. It's going to be exciting to see how it develops from a professional perspective, an amateur perspective, from a tech perspective as well. I mean, what I see is there's two main challenges for you, right? There's keeping up with the tech side, making sure the app is still leading at the forefront, and bug-free yeah, bug-free and working. But then you have also that customer acquisition side, which, for any business, is always a challenge. So how you manage to keep those together and growing together, that's going to be an issue for you.
Speaker 2:That is a challenge, obviously in any business. That is, and I think part of that can be answered by you if I switch the question and ask you that where do you see paddle art and what are the things you want to see in this club in next two years? Let's say so if you tell me what are the three things you would like, because that wish list is my gateway to do things.
Speaker 1:I mean to answer that question. I mean increasing revenue, which I think any business wants, that Customer retention, and I mean, for us it would be to grow our junior academy I think would be the third one, which is something we haven't done yet, also due to what we're discussing. The sport's still growing, so getting kids involved, that's the future as well, off the top of your head. How would you use PaddleOS to grow a kids academy?
Speaker 2:I think I mean, to be honest, I haven't thought about as a kids academy.
Speaker 2:I mean, to be honest, I haven't thought about as the kids academy I said the only thing we have been seeing is that, especially from Netherlands, a lot of training happens over there under academy. So one of the things we are working a lot on is in our system we're actually creating a paddle OS training account where academies can log in and they can create their own account and manage all these trainings. So we're trying to build system where because in tennis and other categories the academies are very well structured because they get a lot of requests from different levels, so they have to coordinate it and then they have to schedule with available trainers and then they place these trainers in different clubs. So one of the ways I think that we're going that up of the food chain, as you can say, or the chat chain, is that uh also provide the trainer schools the software so that you or any other club can say I am partnering with this trainer in this training school, I give them access in parallel os.
Speaker 1:first we need that because organizing kid sessions is a nightmare because you have different ages exactly and then you know they want. You want to do one for one age group, another group at the same time so both kids can come from the parents. Yeah, you know, getting the just just the idea of it gives me, like you know, makes me sweat a little bit, because it's always a headache when we try and start planning the kids academies that there's so many different things that need to be taken into account. It's just so much easier with adults, um.
Speaker 2:So there's definitely a lot to explore that in terms of putting that into a system where we can easily structure kids academies without excel sheets exactly so the the way we took tackling it is that instead of trying to build a like a half big trading module for clubs, we said, okay, why don't we build a training club account? Now a club can be a training and a club also, or it can be just a professional training institute, which can, because in, let's say, in Europe there's a lot of training institutes who work with a lot of clubs. So if we can solve that complicated scheduling problem for them, now that it can also be solved for the club. So that's how we're trying to reduce that friction of between the trainers and the clubs. If we can make the whole process seamless so that you no longer need to sell quotes in advance, that you just give an access to the trainer.
Speaker 2:Even right now in our system happens, you can invite a trainer and you can say he or she can only have this much hours a week or month and they can book it, they can sell it through your quote and then automatically the report is generated. And we don't even want to go around the path where, even if you have a deal of a revenue share, then at the same point of transaction, if I pay for a training, 80% goes to the trainer, 20% goes to the club at that instant and their own individual stripe or bank account, instead of trying to deal with all that money in the later. I think steps like these will eventually help us train more people faster and maybe it will help contribute in a way of growing the sport.
Speaker 1:One thing that I would like to see in applications, and what I haven't seen in any of the current softwares that we've worked with is in terms of optimization and then reutilization of a canceled court or canceled event or canceled booking or lesson. So let's say, I cancel my lesson this evening, yeah, that slot just stays empty unless the reception sees it or, you know, we choose to push that to whatsapp groups. What I would like to see is this lesson's canceled in six hours. All the players that have a lesson who have had a lesson with this specific coach are then retargeted like hey, this guy has become available. Would you like to book this lesson? Book it now on the app. I would like to see that. Is that possible?
Speaker 2:That is underway Not really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is underway and we talked a little bit about it. I think we already are giving. Let's say, for example, in your current system, in our system also, you get automatic alerts for open matches. If you are the right person for the right open match, you get a push notification alert. I think the same logic has to apply for all of these things.
Speaker 2:The challenge is to do it in a way that you don't over-bombard the customers they unsubscribe, as we all get a lot of emails and we unsubscribe. They unsubscribe, as we all get a lot of emails and we unsubscribe. So and also build in a way that, uh, your staff can actually give these instructions and say you know what? Uh, send a reminder to all those people who play, but not everybody. Generally. Send it to the people who are generally playing on the tuesday at 6 pm. Only send it to Tuesday people, because if I've never played at Tuesday 6 pm, the likelihood of me playing at Tuesday 6 pm is very low, for whatever reason, because I might do a gym workout that day or something else. So I think the system has to be a bit more granular and smarter. So that's what we are working on right now is that we're taking some baby steps in a way that, technically, we can do it. The challenge is how to do it in a way that you're not bombarded with a lot of push notifications.
Speaker 1:Could you, for example, from the player side in my app, choose which notifications?
Speaker 2:I'm interested in Exactly. So the idea is, instead of forcing is to guide the customer. So even right now we say, hey, do you want to get an open match alert once a day or any time the one match is on, Because we have some people who are like paddle nuts.
Speaker 1:They will want every single possible notification, like every match, every trainer. They want to play all the time.
Speaker 2:For them. It's actually better to just keep opening the app because you can see a lot of it. I think it's like in our case we send Open Matches daily report. We say, hey, these are the open matches tomorrow and day after tomorrow who you might be the right fit? So we send it every night. Then we have a feature where people say, hey, I want to open match alert every, every moment, the moment it's created. I want to be the first one.
Speaker 2:Uh, but then the the the thing would happen is like, if cancellations and all those happens, like, okay, who do you reach out to? So we have some tools, tools available, but I think in coming months I can show you that how do we do it in a way that it's not about only one thing, because it's not about just canceling the booking. Right, it could be about canceling a tournament, it could be someone dropped out of some other thing. How do you do all of these without going overwhelming yourself and overwhelming the customer? And for that, that's where the right balance has to be. I think we have the right solution, but we'll have to show you in a few months when it's out Well.
Speaker 1:in that case, you'll have to come back in a few months and we'll have to read this.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you said you asked me the goal for next few years, I would say the goal for next few months would be I'm coming back here and you say now, paddle Art is powered by Paddle OS. That would be the.
Speaker 1:Bold statement. Let's see, time will tell. Thanks, haris, for dropping by. It's been a pleasure talking to you, talking about Paddle OS. I wish you all the best. If it's not with us, it will be with the butt-clubs and who knows, maybe our paths will cross again.
Speaker 2:I appreciate the time. Thank you.