BeTempered
BeTempered
BeTempered Episode 42 - Extreme Ownership in Action: Matty Ledgerwood on Leadership, Accountability, and Transformation
What if true leadership meant taking full responsibility, even when the stakes are at their highest? On this episode, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr take a deep dive into the principles of Extreme Ownership, inspired by Jocko Willink’s teachings. Joined by Matty Ledgerwood, they explore the role of leadership in shaping culture, the balance between humility and assertiveness, and the critical importance of fostering trust and accountability. As they dissect decision-making in politics, they challenge the all-too-common tendency to shift blame rather than embrace responsibility.
We also share the incredible story of Coach Kemper, who turned a struggling high school football team into champions, reviving school spirit and showcasing the transformative power of leadership. Through experiences in youth sports coaching, we discuss how adversity can be harnessed as a tool for growth—building confidence, resilience, and life skills that extend far beyond the field.
Leadership often means living in a "glass house," under constant scrutiny. Dan and Ben break down how to stay positive, remain mission-focused, and practice servant leadership to create meaningful impact. Drawing inspiration from influential figures like Chad Wright of the Three of Seven Project, they highlight how personal growth fuels leadership success. Plus, with insights on maximizing social media engagement for greater visibility, this episode is packed with strategies to help leaders at any level elevate their influence and drive real change.
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt. This is my dad, Dan. He owns Catron's Glass.
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Speaker 3:Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we explore the art of finding balance in a chaotic world.
Speaker 4:Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, practical tips and inspiring stories to help you navigate life's ups and downs with grace and resilience.
Speaker 3:We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr. Let's embark on a journey to live our best lives.
Speaker 4:This is Be Tempered.
Speaker 3:What's up everybody? Welcome to the Be Tempered podcast, episode number 42.
Speaker 4:Confidently, you sure, yep.
Speaker 3:Good. Good.
Speaker 3:We've got an interesting topic today that is near and dear to my heart and very important in our world today, which is a leadership. Leaders must own everything in their world. There's no one else to blame. The leader sets the tone. Whether a team succeeds or fails is all on the leader. That is extreme ownership. Good leaders don't make excuses. Instead, they figure out a way to get it done and win. A leader must be humble but not passive, aggressive but not overbearing but not overbearing. They must instill a culture of accountability, discipline and trust, because without these, a team, no matter how talented, will fail. And this is a passage from Jocko Willink in his book Extreme Ownership how US Navy SEALs lead and win. And that right there is the foundation of everything we're talking about today. Leadership isn't just about being in charge, it's about taking full ownership of the culture you create. And to help us break this down, back for round number three, we've got Maddie Ledgerwood here with me. Maddie, again, welcome back to the Be Tempered podcast.
Speaker 5:It is great to be with back with you guys. Appreciate the invite.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if if you're not watching, maddie is loaded up on the be tempered gear. He looks good with the hat and shirt and, uh, you know, I love seeing seeing that people walk in our buddy, matt roberts I see him at the gym every morning. Sometimes he'll walk in, he'll have the be tempered shirt on and it just makes me feel good. That's right. It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 3:It should. So, matty, hearing those words from Jocko, you said you read the book I'm in. I'm about three quarters of the way through that book, extreme Ownership, which is fantastic book to read. What stands out to you most about leadership's role in shaping culture, about leadership's role in shaping culture.
Speaker 5:That's a big question. I mean, if you start with his first sentence there, where he talks about you know, the leader has to own everything. You know that's that concept of responsibility. Like, you know, the leader is willing to hold the line on every piece of whatever it is that comes across. You know, the leader is willing to hold the line on every, every piece of whatever it is that that comes across. Uh, you know the desk, and so he he's, he's not scared of that responsibility, um, and as he owns the responsibility for everything that is going on, then that allows him to begin to develop a way of doing things. So much of that comes from the leader's personality, who he is, his upbringing, his experiences in life, and that's what makes every leader a little bit different, a little bit unique, because they're going to color it with who they are, with, with their, with who they are, um, but, at the core, every leader is creating a culture. I think, honestly, the question is whether or not they're creating a good culture or not.
Speaker 5:Um, you know this, this world runs on leadership. Ai is impressive, um, but AI doesn't run countries, it doesn't run businesses. Uh, it, it. It doesn't run families. It doesn't run businesses. It doesn't run families. It doesn't run nonprofits. It doesn't run churches. At the end of the day, there's always somebody in charge, and you know whether that person is a good leader or a bad leader. You know that remains to be decided, but make no mistake about it leadership runs the world. But make no mistake about it. Leadership runs the world. And so if you've got a guy who's willing to own his stuff and is responsible and then creates a culture around you know who he is he can be an exceptional leader. She can be an exceptional leader.
Speaker 3:For sure, for sure, and I think we see that in today's society, especially in politics, right, absolutely. You know, the political environment is one where it's more about placing blame and pointing the finger. It's not about taking ownership. And maybe that's because of how our elections work, with, you know, changing every four years or two years, depending on whatever it is. But that's what drives me crazy about politics is that people don't take ownership for those decisions, even if they voted on something, um, you know, 10 years ago and and that whatever that was voted on makes the change doesn't happen for 10 years. And then they're like, oh no, no, you know, I didn't my mind changed, or this or that man take ownership for it. I uh be vulnerable and be like you know what? Yeah, this is a decision I made at this time, but you know, I've seen things happen and this is why my mind has changed. You got to take ownership of it. That annoys me to no end degree when people try to place blame Absolutely.
Speaker 3:So you're involved in business, you run your own business, you've got a family. You're involved in business, you run your own business, you've got a family. You're involved in your church, you're involved in the community. You do so many things. How do leaders balance holding people accountable while still creating an environment of trust and respect?
Speaker 5:The hardest person to lead is yourself, and good leaders always start there. They start with the responsibility they have to move themselves forward, to improve their weaknesses, to uh, to to put their strengths on display, I guess. But they've learned to lead themselves. Exceptional leaders across the board. They've learned to lead themselves.
Speaker 5:When you learn to lead yourself, which is the hardest person there is to lead, it is much easier than to. So here's the thing we offer so much grace for ourself and we will give ourselves massive leads and and uh, you know justifications and everything else, cause, oh, they don't. They don't understand what I had to deal with or what I was went through, or they don't understand my past, or they don't understand. This is why I am the way I am and and excuse, excuse, excuse, just like you're talking about someone who's leading themselves, has learned to shut all that off and just push forward. But as they've learned to do that, it actually does help them. Then, have grace with other people, because the flip side of us having grace with ourselves is that we have no grace with anyone else, and so everyone else gets a super short leash. And you know, do it exactly this way, or the way I said to do it. Or you know, and and and and, all of a sudden, all this grace and justification we have for ourself we no longer have with anyone else.
Speaker 5:Person who leads themselves well, they're able to then offer grace to other people, and that's what people need in order to follow. They need to feel like, hey, this guy has my best interest at heart, this lady really cares about me, this is someone I can I feel confident or comfortable behind following. And so I think, if you have a leader who is willing to hold themselves accountable, to lead themselves well, that you do start to juggle a lot of things, because you know, that does become a person that people are kind of gravitate towards. But if that person has the character to lead themselves well, that really is what allows them to be able to share that leadership in a family unit and in a business unit and in a sports league and whatever the different avenues are. And so balancing it is tough, but it starts with leading yourself well.
Speaker 3:It does. That's a, that's a hundred percent. I think back, you know, to where I was as a leader in high school, you know, in sports, in college, in sports and in school, and then at a young age running a business and trying to figure things out and and finally, really for me it hasn't really clicked. I mean, I feel like I did a good job in leadership at that young age but I honestly feel like I've just gotten started the past two or three years when I recognized I've got to get myself right, I've got to get my mind right, I've got to get my body right so that I can be a positive influence on the people that work for me, on my children, on my wife, on our friends, to try to do what I say is make this world a better place. You know I can't, I can't rely on, you know, our politicians and our world leaders and these other people. It starts with us and that's that's the core to to being a good leader, I feel like, is getting yourself right, like you said, so that other people watch you and want to strive to be like you and uh, and, and that's a difficult thing. And I thought back to um, my high school football days and, um, I thought back to my freshman year in high school. We were, oh, in 10, we did not win a single. To my freshman year in high school. We were 0-10. We did not win a single game. My freshman year in high school, and the coach that we had was not a bad coach, he was a good guy but he worked a full-time job. He showed up right when practice started and we just weren't good. But my sophomore year we got a new coach who came in. He was a teacher, he was a former football player, college football player, tried out for the NFL. He was a big man, he demanded a big presence and he was a leader and he led by example. And I look back on that because we went one and nine. My sophomore year he started creating a culture of hey, if you want to succeed you have to work. You can't just show up and expect it to happen. One and nine sophomore year. Two and eight junior year. We're starting to develop that culture. That's only two wins. We still we're not good, but you could feel the change in the momentum, not only from our small little football team with 40 kids on it, but in the school, the environment of the school.
Speaker 3:Coming into our senior year, we were rocking and rolling. We felt really good about where we were at. We had a great core of kids. We had other kids in our class that had never played football. That came out because they wanted to be a part of that culture and we went six and four and that's. You know, that's a winning record.
Speaker 3:At the time that was our school record for the most wins in a football season, but it was awesome. It was a great season. I mean it was. It was a very rewarding to see where we came from, you know, with the prior three years having three wins out of 30 games, to being able to go six and four. And it was all because of the leadership of coach Kemper, who came in and changed the culture. We followed his lead and so I learned so much, you know, as a young 15, 16, 17, 18 year old kid from him that I was able to carry on into college, um, but that was a. That was a pivotal moment in my life where I like, okay, this, this is what a leader looks like, and so so that was a. That was a big deal for me. Have there been experiences like that in your life, maybe maybe at church, maybe at school, maybe with your family or business, where where you can, can you? You can remember specific times where it was like okay, that's what leadership looks like.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I would say I'm similar to you in the sense that I didn't really uh ever view myself as much of a leader. Um, you know, till till I really began this journey of a lot of personal growth and and then through that, I was like you know that that's valuable and that that that carries, you know, some help with it. And so you know this whole topic of leadership even though I've been around it a lot in my life, I wouldn't say it's something that I've really um personal to me till the last five or six years or so. And so, yeah, as I sit now and look back, I can say, you know, there I had elements of that growing up and you know, I, I, I saw it displayed, uh, you know, here and there, um, I, I did have a, uh, we went, I went to a really really really small college and, uh, they had a small football team.
Speaker 5:It honestly was basically just a glorified high school football team. So I don't tell people I played college football, because that is not true, but I was on the team and and you know, we did have a coach that was was like that and who did push us and you know he did create a culture of accountability. He created a culture of work and hard work and and I thought about that a lot and I think there is a common of accountability. He created a culture of work and hard work and and I've thought about that a lot and I think there is a common thread there, and I think this is why coaches are so valuable, because they both encourage you and they challenge you. They expect something from you that you don't think you have to. You don't think you have the capacity to do it. Can we, can we actually get to six wins? And we've only ever won one or two wins a season. Yeah, you know, I mean, he saw something in you guys that you didn't even see in yourself, and he encouraged you and he pushed you. Yeah, and leadership does both, and so, you know, I tend to, uh, sit a lot more on the encouraging and loving side and and I've had to work on the challenge side, you know to to to speak plainly and clearly and and expect things from people more than they can expect from themselves.
Speaker 5:Good leaders draw from people what they don't know is in there, and that creates momentum, and that's where leadership starts to work, because you get people who say they start to develop some confidence I can do this. I didn't know I could do this. I have a skill that I never realized I had before, and all of a sudden they start to build some confidence. Well, then they buy in more, and then they buy in more. It's like this compounding effect that you know, you. You, you have someone who's willing, at the beginning, to push a rock all by himself, with all of his might, and, and eventually he gets an entire army of people that are pushing the rock as well. Um, but someone has to start it. Someone's got to be the person that says, hey, we're going to get moving in a direction, and, uh, so yeah, good leadership will bring encouragement and challenge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. We're kind of dealing with it right now on our little youth basketball team that Ben and I coach these, you know, these 10 and 11 year old kids, that they've had a really good season. We haven't had a lot of competition, um, we're undefeated, uh, which doesn't mean anything to me, quite honestly, because what I'm trying to develop is these boys when they're in middle school and when they go into high school, you know, and trying to push them in ways that they may not be pushed at home, because a lot of these boys are raised a lot differently than how I raise my kids, and not in a bad way. I raise my kids and not in a bad way um, more of a comfort. Um, you know, we don't want any pain for for this little kid or that little kid, and we had a couple of tests, uh games this weekend where it did tested the boys and uh, and we had to have a little come to Jesus talk at halftime and um um, you know, there's some things I just can't.
Speaker 3:I can't stand and uh, and they were doing it and um, you know they came out second half of the game and and they changed, um, and and for me you talk about rewarding is is when you, when you see something someone's doing like a young, especially a kid I mean really working with kids is is, uh, what I truly enjoy doing the most and seeing them and their element where they're essentially giving up. You know, things get tough, it's hard. I'm going to start crying. I'm going to look to the stands at mom and dad no, that don't, that doesn't work with me and uh, and then to flip that switch and say, look, boys, this is, this is why you're here.
Speaker 3:You're not here to beat a team 46 to nothing, like we did last week. You're here for some competition, to get better, to push yourself, so that when you face better competition, you can fight through that adversity and you may not win, because guess what In life, you're going to lose a lot more than you win and you've got to figure out how to deal with that. So it's been a really fun, uh, really, this past weekend was really fun for me to be able to push them because we hadn't had that chance yet. I mean, you've been a part of that right, and that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 4:When you know, when you talk about good leaders and everything, and and then the adversity. Well, what happened? Like two weeks ago at practice? We had some games where we missed some layups and stuff. We're like, okay, we're gonna keep track of them. For every layup we miss, we're gonna do five right. So we missed 20 oh man.
Speaker 5:So let's do the math and you can see.
Speaker 4:The kids faces are like no, we missed 19 or 19.
Speaker 3:That's right, that's right 95 push-ups to do, and so the kids are like you there's no way he's gonna make us do 95.
Speaker 4:What do we do? We did 100. Yeah, we did 100, that's right. We got to like 90 and there's no way he's going to make us do 95.
Speaker 1:What'd we do? We did a hundred. We did a hundred.
Speaker 4:We got to like 90 and there's probably like seven or eight kids that are like this is awesome, I can't believe I'm doing this and we do what 10? And then wait maybe like five, 10 seconds and do. Then it got to the point where it's like, okay, we're at 80. Are we going to just do 95? Or at this point, are we going to do a hundred? And they're, we're gonna do 100, you know. And then seeing those kids, they couldn't do it. You know, if you told them, hey, you're gonna do 100 push-ups five minutes ago when they first started, would they have done it? No, but you got them to that point where they started believing in themselves like I got this, I can do this, I can do this.
Speaker 4:And same thing for football, like with our uh, our peewee football that we were on um. You know my oldest, he just got done with sixth grade, so now he's going to school ball. But his class, when we originally started in third grade, was 13 kids that played football. And then the next year, you know, the kids had fun, they learned, they enjoyed it. So the next year, you know, we're up to 18. And then, fifth grade year, it's like 23. Then last year it's 30. And I'll never forget so we used to do at the end of practice on Thursdays. We're going to hey, you know what we're going to do 100-yard suicides Every 10 yards. Going to do it all the way down the field Because you know why no other team does it. And you know you're pushing yourselves, you're showing yourselves that fourth quarter comes around, you can do it. And last year I'll never forget the first time we did it, like I heard about this, I heard about this, I can't wait. And then what they do, they did every five yards. And then there's times where it's like hey, we've reached time, boys, like we're not gonna have time to do it, and there's kids that stayed after and then all of a sudden they all did it as a team. And then you're like that's what you're trying to instill in these kids, right, and stuff that when they first start out, you know we can't do that. We can't do that to the point where it's no, like we love doing that. That's what makes us different. You know that work ethic and you guys talk about like back to high school ball and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:I was lucky enough to see both sides of it. So for high school football. We had a coach. My freshman year, sophomore year comes around, we get another coach and he sticks around for two years, probably the best coach that we had. And then senior year you know that coach quit on us, so four. And then senior year you know that coach quit on us, so four years. We had three coaches.
Speaker 4:Each time they come in in the spring, it's like, hey, like we're gonna build something here, we're gonna build culture. I believe in you boys, I love you boys, it's what we're gonna do. And all of a sudden, here comes october. Hey guys, um, I decided to take another position over here. Yeah, use this as a stepping stool. You know, same thing. Next one comes in. He was probably the best one because he played college ball. He was kind of like your coach, right, like no, you know, I remember I had thumb surgery and I was half in half out of it because we had to go straight to a scrimmage and I remember this guy was so intense, threw a barbell across the, you know, across the locker room, snapped his clipboard. I mean just fiery guy. Pretty sure he was on roids. So you know, we had terrible culture. Every time was a stepping stone, stepping stone.
Speaker 4:Freshman year we had 19 kids come out in our class. You know how Dixie is. We finished with 23 on our roster, like my senior year, for all the grades. Well, what happened was we were in a walkthrough and the seniors that year were in a walkthrough. Kids, you know're. When they come across in the drag route, you're going to step up and you're going to nail them like you're just going to nail them. So we're walking through literal walkthroughs this coach is talking about it and senior takes off one of our freshmen's head, wearing helmets, helmet to helmet, flies up, lands on his back next day. There was only six of us left in that senior class.
Speaker 4:Everybody else is like that coach don't care about us. You know flip side basketball. We had leaders, true leaders. You had coach edder for three years and coach miller for a year, and those guys were leaders. They were building culture. They were pushing us, explaining everything, every aspect of the game, what it means to be a leader. And my sophomore year was when I started playing varsity and I'll never forget.
Speaker 4:Coach Etter comes up. He's like you can't be a vocal leader At this point, like you're younger. We got seniors, we got juniors, but you're going to outwork everybody, like I know your work ethic. He said when we run suicides, we're going to do it until somebody beats you. And I know that you're not going to give up. So you push yourself. I don't care if a kid cusses you out, he punches you, you just keep going. And that instilled in me, you know. You don't always have to talk about it, you know it's work ethic, it's the little things. There's different type of leaders, right, you got people that are, I feel like you got the smart people, the smart leaders that are just very knowledgeable and people follow them. You know those are. Then you got the other leaders that are work ethic. Like I'm not going to be able to tell you, I'm not going to verbalize everything I want you to do, but you're going to see me working and you're going to be like I want to work, like that, like I want to get there.
Speaker 5:So yeah, no, that's good I, I, yeah, and a good coach knows that struggle is good for his team and he's not scared to let them struggle, um and uh, and then know and I think you bring up a good point at the end there that you know really what then is leadership? You know, I mean, if you can have a, do you have to be smart, Do you have to be athletic, Do you have to have an unbeatable work ethic? You know, I think Maxwell says that leadership. John Maxwell says leadership is influence. You know, I think Maxwell says that leadership. John Maxwell says leadership is influence.
Speaker 5:Dr Axe, Josh Axe, says that leadership is a, is a. I mean, he basically said leadership's a combination of encouragement and challenge, like we talked about already. And so you know, it's not a title. You don't have to have the name, you don't have to have the CEO at the end, you don't have to. That's not leadership.
Speaker 5:I like to think leadership is a mixture of being a dreamer and then being a lover of people, and you have to have a vision. And where you're going, you can be a people person. But if you don't have anywhere, have a vision. And where you're going Like, you can be a people person, Um, but if you don't have anywhere to take them, you're not going anywhere. Um, but uh, but you, you. So you have to know where you're going and you have to see a world that no one else sees.
Speaker 5:And and then have the have, the uh, the ability or the courage I guess is really a better way to say it to move people there, even though the path is not always clear. But then you have to do it with an absolute love for people. The coaches who are the best are the ones where the guys know, the ladies know, that that coach loves me and that will motivate people way more than anything else you talk about. Well, he, he's on his way out the door. Nobody wants to put in for that guy, Right, Uh, you know, but you get the guy who's willing to get down there and do the pushups with you All of a sudden. That's a different bond, that's a different relationship. That guy's leading not just from the front, he's leading from behind, Right, and so you know that it, it, it takes both.
Speaker 3:It comes down to trust too, right you?
Speaker 3:have. You have to develop that trust to where whether it's a team, whether it's a business, no matter what it is, um, people have to trust you. They have to trust that that you have their best interests at heart. That is also the best interest for the team or for the business or for whatever. So trust is a big thing. I just finished this book by John Maxwell, high Road Leadership, and I don't know if you can see it if you're not watching, but I got notes. It's written up, highlighted. I got you know all these post-it notes everywhere and I want to read a passage here because John is the master in leadership in everything he does.
Speaker 3:I think this is like his.
Speaker 3:I don't know 40th book he's written a lot of books, but he is fantastic. So John says to be a good leader, you need positive energy. When you don't put other people's opinions in perspective, you end up expending your energy in a nonproductive way. When someone criticizes you or expresses negative opinions about you, if you're in the wrong, then it's your concern and you need to work on yourself to fix it. But if the criticism or negative comments are not true, you shouldn't take them to heart. Don't let someone else's issue become yours. The best thing you can do as a high road leader is not to take it, not to take the bait. The moment you let yourself be sucked in emotionally, you're playing their negative game and that game is not worthy of your time and attention. The easiest thing to be in the world is you. The most difficult thing to be is what other people want you to be. Don't let them put you in that position. Talk about that how other people can bring you down and you're in a leadership position. I mean, being a leader is difficult.
Speaker 3:It's very difficult and it means you have to make decisions that can could negatively affect people in their mind, even though it may be the best decision for the team or the organization. So talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 5:I. You live in a glass house in leadership. Everyone's going to question your motives, everyone's going to question your opinions, everyone's going to question your decisions. Most of them are going to have the ability to do that after something has happened, and so they can look at something in reverse and say, well, look, this didn't go well because you did these five things and you are, on the other hand, you have to figure everything out before it's happened. That's leadership, and so you don't have the. You know, you don't have the luxury of looking back to. You're trying to figure it out as you go forward, and so it is easy to live in that glass box, and it is very easy, over time, for all of the opinions and the criticism that come from living in that glass box to really begin to drag you down. No doubt. I think this comes back to what are you doing? Why are you doing it? If, if you are in a position of leadership to pad your pocket to just better your own life, there's only so much of that glass house pressure you're going to be able to take before you say, screw it. If, if you are in it for any kind of self-serving thing, it's going to be difficult. But if why you are doing it is because you believe to the core of your being that what you do is important, that it adds value, that it is significant for the world of the people around you, you can deal with that a little bit better because you're not stuck on. You know well, this person doesn't like me, or that I can't believe they said that, or they have no idea what I went through to do, what we did, and then they're, they're, they're pulling it all apart. No, you, you, you stick close to why are you doing what you're doing? And and, uh, that that's essential. I, you know, I mean, I can, I can speak for myself. Um, obviously, I'm a, I'm a man of, of faith. Um, I have a relationship with Christ and that is the most important piece about my life, my life Scripture talks about in John chapter 17.
Speaker 5:Let me get my verse here John 13, 13,. You know, there's a story where Christ is with his disciples and it's right before Christ is crucified and he goes in there and they're all sitting around having dinner and he gets up and he takes on the role of a servant and he begins to wash their feet and we don't really understand the ritual foot washing, like you know, in our culture. But you know, they wore sandals and it was dusty and it was it was agricultural, so they're stomping through, uh, you know feces and it's nasty and you know. So feet were disgusting and they were gross and only the lowliest of servants would ever touch someone else's feet. And Christ comes in and he puts on a servant's robe and he begins to wash their feet. And you know, first the guys, the disciples, were just what is he doing? What? Why? Why? You are Lord, why would you wash my feet? And he says this in verse 13. He says you call me teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am. But if I, then your Lord and teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet.
Speaker 5:And the principle is that real leadership is about serving people and if you want to survive the glass house of criticism, serve people. You're not there for yourself. You're not there to make a name for yourself. You're not there to better your position. You're not there to climb the ladder for yourself. You're not there to better your position. You're not there to climb the ladder. You are there for that person and in the same way that Christ would exemplify what it means to you know, be a servant, take care of other people. That is how we are supposed to lead.
Speaker 5:When it comes to leadership and I say that the world revolves on leadership, it does and outside of our call to bring people to Christ, I can't think of a more noble calling than to be a leader that understands that they are to serve people, that they are to add value to people, that they are to improve the quality of everyone else around them. And so I guess I can say for myself that's how I deal with the glass house, that it's not about me. And there is criticism. It is difficult, and leaders are leaders are humans. We, we, we will tend to take things personally. It's hard not to. But if we lose sight of why we're doing what we're doing, it it gets to us. But if we stick with man, it doesn't matter. I'm here to serve Now. That makes a huge difference, yeah.
Speaker 3:Being a servant leader.
Speaker 3:That that is the key, I think, in life, like for me, what I have learned, especially you know in the past what 40, what 42, 42, 42 episodes.
Speaker 3:You know we're not doing this podcast for Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr, right? We're doing this podcast so people can learn your story, people can learn Sean Rubish's story, jason Coger's story. They can hear these stories of people who not only have been through difficulties in their life or build a business or let a family or let a church or whatever it is they were. What they're doing by telling their story is serving others. They're sharing those, those difficulties that they faced with others being servant.
Speaker 3:And and I think once you realize that that's where true fulfillment is, not only whether you're a leader or you're not a leader and and I want to talk about that a little bit get into um, you may not be the quarterback of the team, you may not be the captain of the team, you may not be the owner of the business, the president of the United States. You can be involved in an organization or a team and still have play a leadership role. So talk about Maddie people in an organization or on a team who may not feel like they're a leader, but how they can take their role to actually be a leader.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So I mean, I think that's where John Maxwell's definition is so helpful, because leadership is influence and that's not a title. There are way too many people who have the title and are not really qualified to be the leaders, and so don't ever get stuck on your title. Don't get stuck on what you feel like is your, your, your job description, your leadership is based on your influence, and you alone control that. You control how you treat people, you control how you interact with people, you control how you speak, you control how you react. That's all on you. And if you control, if you, if you're working on those things, don't be surprised when your influence begins to expand.
Speaker 5:But I did put a cut down a couple notes and related to that how do you lead when you're not in charge? And remember that everyone who is a leader is also a follower in some sense. No one is leading in every aspect of their life, and so there is an element for everybody where I'm not in charge, and yet I still need to bring influence to the table. Like we talked about, leadership is about being able to have a vision of the future, and it doesn't have to be. I need to create a world-changing product. It doesn't have to be. I have to come up with an idea that no one has had before. But you see, a way forward that you can get there. But you may not be the one calling the shots. And so what are some practical things that you can do that help you influence up the chain of command for people that are over you? Number one they will listen to you when you listen to them. The fastest way to get your boss or your leader or whoever that person that's over you, your coach, if you listen to them, it's going to be much easier for them to listen to you. But if you shut down what they say, if you argue, if you get defensive, they don't. They're not going to have time to hear what you want to say. So they listen when you listen to them.
Speaker 5:Always start with honor and respect, like we just talked about. Leaders are human. We are as insecure as anyone else in the world is. We fight that on a daily basis. It is a get out of bed struggle, from from from when we get out of bed to when we get back in bed, you know. And so whoever is over you that you're trying to influence up, they're insecure. So start with honor and respect. Don't belittle them, don't tear them apart. Uh, you know, honor them, love them, respect them. If they feel that you actually have their back, they're going to listen to you.
Speaker 5:Um, you gotta be honest. Whatever you're trying to say, whatever you're trying to communicate, you have to be able to communicate it. I tend to like say something but it takes me a hundred miles to get there because I'll beat around the bush, and I've had to learn. I got to take the fastest route here. I have to communicate clearly, honestly. For me that means I have to really think through what I'm going to say before I say it. If I'm just talking off the top of my head, I just going to kind of fall into my pattern of taking forever to say what I need to say. So you do have to be honest.
Speaker 5:Don't waste your words. Don't beat around the bush. Only deal in facts. Don't make up something that's not true. Okay. If you have to confront somebody, something in someone, only deal with what you know. Never, never, never fill in the blanks. Okay, that's the fastest way for them to shut you down, because you don't know their motives. You can't be sure that they did something the way you think that they did it. And so you know, use a lot of words like I think, or it seems, or maybe there's a pattern, never run in with some dogmatic, where you always do this and you always say that and no deal in facts, not your emotions.
Speaker 5:It is interesting that if you need to say something to a leader when you say it really matters, we all have rhythms in our day. There are times when I'm on a job site and I'm getting peppered with 50 different questions at once. That's probably not a real good time to talk to me about something that bothered you yesterday. My brain is in a million different places at that point. So you know, if you have something to say, just pay attention to when you say it. It really does matter. There's a, there's a time and a place. Um, if you want to be heard, if what you're saying is really important, then take the time to figure out when I should say it.
Speaker 5:Um, don't threaten their position. Leadership is service. It is not self-serving, um. And if you are out to better yourself and you're hoping that if I can push back against this leader, that maybe I will take his spot or his job, or you know that's very self-serving. Do not expect to have any influence up the chain of command that way. Respect who they are, respect how they've gotten to that position, honor them uh, in that you know a good leader is is respect how they've gotten to that position. Honor them in that you know a good leader is.
Speaker 5:I don't know of a good leader who doesn't want someone underneath them that provides them helpful feedback and is honest with them and is interested in the cause of which they are pushing. And so I think most leaders would welcome a person who says I'm not in charge, but I really want to still influence the direction of where we're going. I don't know any leaders who would say I don't want that at all. If that leader exists, then he is just completely about himself and maybe you ought to find a new position. But any good leader is going to welcome that. But you have to do it in the right way, and so you know, whatever your position is, that doesn't matter. Your title doesn't matter. It comes down to your influence. If you've positioned yourself in a place where you are a good help and a good employee and you're a good listener and you're empathetic and understanding of them, they will listen For sure.
Speaker 3:And I, I, uh, I don't know what podcast I was listening to last week, but it was someone that that has done very, very well in their life. But they talked about how, when they started at a specific company, you know, they had these expectations of of being the big shot, you know, coming right in and being the big shot because of their experiences from a prior job where they came in and they weren't. They were kind of put in their place. So then what they did is everything that nobody else wanted to do, from cleaning the bathrooms to sweeping the floors, to staying late, to come in and early, to doing it to where everybody took notice, to, to where they were, so that they made themselves so valuable because of all the different things they did outside of their job you know their specific job duties that they had to take note of what this person was doing. And then they worked themselves up up the company ladder because of that and they kept doing it, even though they were in a leadership position. They would, you know, pick up trash around the bathroom, you know. I mean all these little things that you can do even if you're not the owner, the leader, you know, the project manager. You know, whatever it is, you can do the little things that people take notice of, and I think that's important.
Speaker 3:And one big thing that I have I've really learned throughout my life and again especially the past couple years is stop chasing what's easy. You know we talk about discipline, we talked about it, you know I don't know what episode it was 20-something or whatever back about developing discipline. But doing what's easy is the selfish choice. What's easy for you is rarely what's best for others. That's right and that's part of leadership is sometimes you got to take that difficult road. You got to have that difficult conversation or you got to have a come to Jesus moment with, with your team. Um to where you. You know it's tough, you know it's not. Conflict is not easy and it's not always necessary, but there's times when it is. And if you're going to be a leader, you've got to take the tough road In a lot of cases. If you take what's easy, it's rarely the best choice.
Speaker 3:And we talked about John Maxwell and he's got a famous quote. It says a leader is one who knows the way, goes the way and shows the way. You know. So that goes back to you know, if you're doing pushups with your team or if you're cleaning toilets. You know people see that you don't just say, hey, go do this, you do it with them or you show them how to do it. So those are all valuable, valuable things, maddie. Is there anything else out there you can think of? Maybe you've dealt with in your business life, in your church life, in your family life, where you know leadership took a critical role and you had to step up.
Speaker 5:I mean, obviously, you know, my journey in being a business owner has been a journey in developing leadership and what started out as I am I'm I'm broke and I've got bills and I have to survive, you know turned into a business. And then you know, a business has to evolve and as it evolves I have to evolve, I have to change. You know I've made a lot of mistakes along the way. I've handled situations poorly and so the the evolving of myself into that leadership role and I'm a long way you know from where I need to be. But I guess just want to, you know, encourage your listeners that I mean, this isn't like, this is a daily thing.
Speaker 5:Like you, there's a struggle involved. You're not going to always get it right, but be authentic, say I'm sorry, I screwed up. You know, man, people get a lot of grace for that when you just own it. You know, back to talking about your responsibility level and stuff. So you're not going to get it right, but own it when you don't and be okay with the process, fall in love with the journey of the growth, fall in love with the journey of the growth, fall in love with the journey of improving in my leadership skills and, um, you know, a leader is someone who has to continually be learning.
Speaker 5:Uh, you've got to put yourself in a position to do that. Uh, if you don't have a method for cultivating your mind and turning over the soil in your mind, you need one. Uh, you can't lead effectively without it. You can't lead without knowing where you're going. And so you know, maybe you need to sit down and figure that out Again. For me, the business has been the training ground for leadership for me, and then that has translated into so many other areas of my life, and so I'm grateful, you know, that the Lord put all that together. I, it's not really how I would have planned it, um, but but for me it was necessary, um to, to get to where we're at, and we're only just getting started. There's a long way to go.
Speaker 3:I agree, I uh, that's what I say. I feel like I am just getting started and you hit on something there and I think we've talked about this before. But you know, for those people who you know, whether it's it's with your work or it's with your um, your mind, your body, whatever it is, take it day by day. You know, don't, don't set out to do something and think that you're going to do it, and not take it day by day, because what you have to do is when you wake up in the morning. You know, I wake up every morning early. It's tough, it's really tough getting out of bed and then it's tough going to work out. You know, I'm constantly in my mind telling myself oh, come on, you, you got out of bed, you're here, you're doing what you need to do, but I'm not really pushing myself, but I do, I push, my try to push myself hard. I know what my demons are. I know what my weaknesses are. I know that when, um, when I'm not busy, I'm lazy and I don't like that feeling. Even on, even on Sunday afternoons, you know, we get back from a basketball game and I'm sitting on the couch and I'm on my phone or I'm reading a book, like I feel lazy and I do not like that feeling. So what do I do? What did I just apply for here?
Speaker 3:A couple months ago I heard on a on a podcast. It was on the resilience show, chad Wright. He's a former Navy SEAL. It was on the resilience show, chad right. He's a former Navy SEAL. Crazy story Uh was not a good dude but was a Navy SEAL. Turns his life around, finds faith, starts a. Um, it's called a three of seven project. He's down in Rome, rome, georgia, and he heard him on this podcast telling his story and he talked about this opportunity called the right of passage. And so I get online and I start looking what is the right of passage? Well, the right of passage is a challenge. It's a 24 hour hike in the mountains of Georgia, no breaks, no stops, 24 hours through the darkness and the light. And uh, but you had to apply for it. You know, you had to kind of tell your story and apply for it. And I was like well you know what?
Speaker 3:I'm going to go out and walk for six hours. So I went to the Arboretum one Saturday morning at five in the morning and I just walked for six hours Cause I just wanted to see. You know, may work out every day, but when you get to those you know you're talking hours and not one hour.
Speaker 3:I don't know how I'm going to. You know how, how my body's going to react. So I did the six hour thing and it hurt. I'm not gonna lie. It did hurt. Um, but I was like you know what that means. I'm getting soft, I need, I need something more. So I applied for it and uh, good or bad, I was accepted.
Speaker 3:And so at the end of June, uh, I'll be doing the rite of passage with Chad and his brother and a couple other Navy SEALs and, uh, you know, I admire, I admire all our military personnel, those who have served our country and those, for some reason, you know, like Jocko and those guys and Chad, you know, I just there's just something different about, about those leaders who sacrifice so much, not only mentally and physically, to get through hell week and to get through the challenges of trying to become a Navy SEAL and then going and serving our country right, sacrificing their lives.
Speaker 3:You know, having their, their brothers or their sisters beside them die the ultimate sacrifice. And so my journey is now to see can I walk alongside these guys and figure out where my mentality is? So, uh, I don't know what that has to do with leadership, really, other than what I'm trying to do is push myself and maybe others will see that to try to push themselves, because again it goes back to me with wanting to improve our community, to improve my family, to improve our friendships, um, and if that means I've got to go through some pain and some sacrifice to do that, I'm going to do that. So at the end of June, maybe my last days, that's a long walk it is yeah, I did.
Speaker 3:I did 20 miles in the six hours. So, um, yeah, yeah, if you're talking maybe 60, 80, a hundred miles, I don't. I don't know what it'll be, but um yeah, ready or not, I come at least georgia, and gene's probably really cool that's right you won't have to sweat too much they'll be shaded
Speaker 3:I'll carry a pack yeah, not a big pack, but, um, yeah, I've got a whole list of stuff they sent me that I have to have to take. So I'm really, I'm really excited and you know, I think I sent when I got accepted, I did a screenshot of the email and sent it to some friends and, and then Brad, was like congratulations, I think.
Speaker 3:So I'm excited for that, but um, I don't know how I got down that rabbit hole, but regardless, um, you know, those are things I'm trying to do, and and and my leadership role is is to show others that, um, you know, I'm going to try to push myself, you know, to the to the best of my abilities. And so, maddie, is there anything in closing, you want to add any uh words of inspiration out there?
Speaker 5:Yeah, everyone has influence, um, and so what you do with it is really up to you. Uh, you can be a good leader. You can be a bad leader. We have a ton of representations of bad leaders all around us. What you decide to do with that really is up to you.
Speaker 5:And so I would say that God has placed inside of everybody a capacity, and that capacity is the way that we are fearfully and wonderfully made and put together and then, over our life, our humanity kind of buries that. Our experiences bury that, our, our fears bury that, our weaknesses bury that. And, um, I you know, I think the, the, the reality of the struggle is man, how do I, how do I be exactly who I was created to be? Because that's what the world needs. The world needs who you were made to be, and that is leadership.
Speaker 5:If you're who God made you to be, there will be people following, and so don't be scared to step into that, to figure that out, don't be scared of the struggles Dan's talking about, to work through your humanity, to work through your weaknesses, um, that's all part of the process. But your world needs you, uh, and your world is better because you're in your world and uh, your responsibility is to continue to improve it. And you know I mean. The reality is, if we all, if we all live that way every day, that idea of servant leadership, we do change the world. And that's what leaders do. They change the world. The world's different because of leadership, and so it's a high calling, the highest of callings, and so jump in.
Speaker 3:Great advice, Ben. You got anything to add.
Speaker 4:No, I just feel. So this is kind of on topic, kind of not right. One of the big things I feel like with leadership is confidence. That's one of the big things I feel like in a leader. You've got to be confident and you've got to be strong in your morals and so back, I don't know, I get old. I feel like I'm still like 18, you know, but really I'm 37.
Speaker 4:But this is back earlier in my life. My sister-in-law was engaged to this guy and he had demons that he was struggling and I was so young in my, in my faith and my confidence. I always battled self-confidence and it was something where it's like you feel something you know, talk about man of God and and being in your faith, right, and I just like you know, I'm not not qualified, I'm not not the person to tell this guy about God. Well, tragically he died and I'll never forget just sitting in his funeral and I'm sitting there like man. I wish I would have said something, you know, and it's just goes back to kind of like where, where a leader comes from right Confidence, so fast forward, like maybe six, seven years later saw somebody on Facebook read to say something and I reached out to him and I didn't say anything that changed my life or his life, you know, but we talked about God for a minute and a little bit. Tragically, one day he got hit by a semi truck on the side of the road and he died. And I'm just sitting there like just thinking like at least I said something that time, you know. At least I know where he's going, you know, because the time I did and I still struggle with that and I say that and just confidence You're always building, right, and those little things like that it constantly, you're constantly building through life.
Speaker 4:I feel like God puts you through things for certain reasons, right? I know I talk about my mission trip a lot. That was the time to just change my life completely and, um, you know, feeling dealing with self-confidence issues and self-esteem issues when I was younger, you know that was originally why I tried to change my weight and everything was because I was so overweight and I felt just. And then you go over to Haiti and you know I was just when I first started working for Dan had jeans and a polo on at the gym and everybody's like man, I didn't even recognize you in jeans and a polo. So I always just wear sweatpants and t-shirt. I really don't care what I look like. Well, that goes back to haiti, right?
Speaker 4:Remember doing revivals at night and these people going like I can't go, like I'm not allowed going to church, I'm not allowed doing being with god, because what I wear and you know.
Speaker 4:So that's like, if it's just such a battle that I constantly deal with with, like self self-esteem. So, when I got back from Haiti, I'm like I'm not going to try to dress to impress anyone, I'm not going to try to lose weight for other people, I'm just going to try to build on myself, right, build my self-confidence, build this stuff. And when you're talking about leader and the man of God and stuff like that, and just like that's where your leadership starts, right, cause who you know, serving a people, who's that based off of Jesus, right, the ultimate. So that's where I just kind of felt like that was. You know, confidence is where leadership comes from, too, and none of us are confident. I feel like that's something that everyone battles with is confidence, you know. But if you've somehow anchor yourself in faith, anchor yourself in your morals, and you just are confident in it, then I feel like that creates a better leader as well.
Speaker 3:I agree those are valuable words and I think, you know, if anything this podcast has taught me, is that a lot of people are struggling, you know, and they're struggling in their own difficulties, whatever, and Some may seem big to other people and not big to some, but to that individual they're difficulties that they're trying to get through and people are struggling. I hope that anybody listening to this podcast is not afraid to talk to those people, to have those conversations. You don't have to give them, you know, all these these words of wisdoms or these great quotes that we're reading, it's, it's a lot of times. It's just about how you doing and listening, you know, and just saying, hey man, I know it's tough, you know tomorrow's a new day, You're going to get through it. I think that's important.
Speaker 3:I think it's, it's something that I've learned, you know, just in the past year of of doing this podcast is, you know, kind of taking a step back and looking at at how other people were raised, the challenges that they faced, the difficulties that may be happening in their lives or in their work, or whatever it may be. Is is just offering that ear to listen, because a lot of people are out there struggling and I think that's part of being a leader. And whether or not you're a leader in your business or on your sports team, you can be a leader at your school. If you're a kid and you know someone's struggling, sit down and talk to them, offer that advice, just to be there. For, know, we all have a lot to give, um, and and it may be different for what I can give, to what Maddie can give or what Ben can give Um, but everybody's got something to give and uh, and don't be afraid to do it. So, um, maddie, thank you.
Speaker 5:Pleasure to be with you guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Appreciate you guys. Leadership you guys are. You guys are rock stars. I look up to both of you. Well, we appreciate you Appreciate you.
Speaker 3:For sure, people can find Matty ledgerwoodhomerestorationcom Yep. Get on Facebook, instagram, check out all those pictures. Amazing work, very, very creative, very unique in the construction industry, whether you're looking for a home, a home addition, a bathroom remodel, whatever it is, you guys kind of do a little bit of everything, right.
Speaker 5:We do and I am. I am one piece of that. There's a huge team behind it, and I am they. I have a lot of guys that are way better at this than I am, and so I'm grateful for them. I just get to steer the boat a little bit, and that's leadership, right.
Speaker 3:Yes, hey, everybody again. Like share, subscribe, hit that little bell notification on the YouTube channel. We appreciate your continued support. I just continue to love to have those conversations with people at basketball games or you know out in the community that they talk about a specific episode. There's certain things that people take from these podcasts. Right, it may just be one comment, it may be one quote, it may be somebody's story, but every episode I'll get something where it's like man, that really hit me because I went through this with my mom or this happened, and so be sure to share it with others. As the Be Tempered movement continues to grow. Share it with others as, as, uh, you know, the be tempered movement continues to grow. We're going to do our part to uh continue to provide quality guests and and amazing stories and, uh, you know continue to move this thing forward.
Speaker 4:One of the biggest ways is also to comment. If you can just comment and put an at and then tag somebody in it, those comments get into the algorithm and then we get more views and then more people can see it. But, like Dan said, every time there's at least one or two, that just yeah. And it's always one or two you don't expect, you know. It's like well, I'm sure this episode will hit so and so yeah. Then you get a text from the other, so and so that you didn't think about, so it's pretty cool, yeah, but thank you everybody and go out and be tempered hi, my name is ali schmidt. This is my dad, dan he owns katrin.
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