BeTempered
BeTempered
BeTempered Episode 45 - If I Live or Die, I'm His: Facing Cancer Without Fear
What happens when life delivers a devastating diagnosis on a day meant for celebration? For Deb Tintsman, receiving news of aggressive B-cell lymphoma on her birthday was not the end of hope, but the beginning of an extraordinary journey—one defined by faith, resilience, and an unexpected sense of freedom.
From her childhood on an Ohio farm to her impactful career working with runaway teens in Dallas, Deb has always lived a life of service. Though she never set out to be a teacher, she found herself drawn to education, spending two decades at National Trail School before retiring in 2020. But just when she thought she had closed one chapter, life had another lesson to teach. In July 2023, persistent back pain and overwhelming fatigue led to a shocking cancer diagnosis.
Rather than surrendering to fear, Deb faced her battle with remarkable strength and even humor—naming her IV stand “Gladys” and viewing her chemotherapy as “the blood of Jesus giving me strength.” Against all odds, her faith was met with a miracle: a scan midway through treatment showed no discernible disease despite being initially "full of cancer."
But what makes Deb’s story truly transformative isn’t just the medical outcome—it’s the spiritual awakening she experienced. “I’ve had to be in control all my life. Letting go was eye-opening… but it was freeing too.” Through scripture, prayer, and a community that showed up in powerful ways, Deb discovered peace in surrendering control.
Join hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr as they sit down with Deb to hear her incredible testimony—one that serves as a reminder that even in life’s hardest moments, we are never truly alone. Whether you’re facing a personal struggle, supporting a loved one, or simply searching for inspiration, Deb’s journey proves that hope endures and faith prevails.
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Speaker 3:Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we explore the art of finding balance in a chaotic world.
Speaker 4:Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, practical tips and inspiring stories to help you navigate life's ups and downs with grace and resilience.
Speaker 3:We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr. Let's embark on a journey to live our best lives.
Speaker 4:This is Be Tempered.
Speaker 3:What's up everybody? Welcome to the Be Tempered podcast, episode number 45. 45.
Speaker 4:Ben beautiful weather today, Perfect weather, had the windows down. It might be like 50, but you know what In?
Speaker 3:Ohio.
Speaker 4:To me it feels like 90.
Speaker 3:When it was seven degrees last week at zero, and the more. I don't know what the wind chill was. And then you go from. Even if it's 40, it feels like a heat wave, it feels tropical, oh well, good. Well, we have an amazing lady here with us today and I'm going to give a little bit of an introduction, which is going to give some of this story away, but that's okay. Life has a way of testing us in ways we never expect. Imagine celebrating your birthday, a day meant for joy and reflection, only to receive a life-altering diagnosis. That's exactly what happened to today's guest, deb Tinsman. A lifelong educator and dedicated member of Eaton Ohio, the community, deb has faced one of life's toughest battles cancer. Through faith, resilience and the same strength she once instilled in her students, she's endured challenges that would break many. Today, she's here to share her journey, the lessons she's learned and the hope she carries forward. Deb Tinsman, welcome to the Be Tempered podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:We are glad to have you. I know there's some anxiety and that is typical for everybody. So deep breath and I am excited for you to share your story. Thank you so welcome. But before we dive in for your battle with cancer, we'd like to start by getting to know you from the very beginning. So can you take us back to your childhood and what life was like growing up and what were some key experiences that shaped you into the person that you are today?
Speaker 5:Well, I was born in a little town called Orville, ohio, which happens to be the home of Smuggers Jellies and that is like the big thing in Orville and I was a farm kid, grew up loving the farm, had ponies and horses and played outside 98% of the time of my life. Had great parents, herb and Meldred Tinsman, and I have two brothers, david and Dean Tinsman, and I also have my sister-in-law, susan, who's probably my best friend.
Speaker 3:I want to stop you for one second. What's it like being the sister with two brothers?
Speaker 5:Well, they're eight and six years older than I am, so I was the bratty little pain in the butt sister who wanted to go wherever they went, and they did not want me to go anywhere.
Speaker 1:They went.
Speaker 5:So I pretty much um, just hung out with them if they would let me, or went and rode my pony. If they didn't, there you go. Well, good, I didn't mean to cut you off, I just as I was reading through.
Speaker 3:You know the answers and we've talked a little bit. That was one of the things I thought. I wonder what it's like being the younger sister of a couple older brothers, so I'm sure they were protective as you got older.
Speaker 5:Well, surprisingly enough, because there's so much age difference between us, they were pretty much gone by the time I was getting to the point where I'd need protection.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 5:And so that was, and we had moved from our hometown here to Eaton, and so that was a big change, and so I pretty much in a lot of ways was on my own in terms of brothers and sister kind of thing. Gotcha, Gotcha so but it wasn't bad, I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I got through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you moved to Eaton Ohio. Yep, talk about that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that was a big change. My mom said I told them, if they made me move it would just kill me. And it didn't. Yeah, we moved in 1968. And it was my, the year between my seventh and eighth grade year, which meant I didn't know anybody and that was a challenge, but there were people who were kind and welcomed me and that was good and so I ended up graduating from Eaton and and yeah, I'm and obviously I must've liked it, because I came back here and stayed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can imagine at that, you know, at that adolescence of an age. You know we have kids in middle school. I have a daughter that's in seventh grade right now. Ben's got a son in sixth grade. You know that's a tough time anyways. As a kid. Your body's changing. You got a lot of things going on trying to fit in and then you make this big move. So I imagine that had been kind of challenging.
Speaker 5:It was I really I changed a lot. I was a really really active kid prior and then when I moved here, where I'd been a country kid now, we lived in the city, and so that was a lot of change and probably not for the best. But you go where your family is, that's right. And mom and dad were great, but it was. It was a challenge. It was a challenge, it's hard for kids that age to make changes, those kinds of changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you graduate from Eaton High School. What's next for you?
Speaker 5:Well, I went to Ashland University Ashland College, then it's now a university and majored in. Well, actually, I didn't know what I was going to be when I grew up. I couldn't decide and I kept trying to figure it out and I actually left college between my sophomore and junior year, came home and still didn't know what I wanted to be, and Mom and I had a conversation in July and said why don't you go back and at least get a degree? You'll have something. So I did and finally settled on history, because that was something that I was very interested in. Not that I ever wanted to be an educator, I didn't Maybe a teacher, Forget it but what I did was I majored in comprehensive social studies, which gave me a very broad education. It included things like sociology and some psychology and political science, that kind of stuff, and I went ahead and graduated and didn't bother to apply for any schools because I didn't want to be a teacher, even though my degree was teaching, and ended up getting a job through a friend with children's services.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 5:And worked for them for three years. Good job, hard job, man man. People who do that deserve all the respect in the world yeah, special yeah wow and um then um decided that, with a friend of mine, we didn't want to live here anymore, so we decided to. She was actually actually from Texas, so we decided to go to Texas and move to Dallas. Gosh, what year was that? 81, I think. Okay, and live there.
Speaker 3:So from Eaton, Ohio, to the big city of Dallas.
Speaker 5:Texas, you bet.
Speaker 3:That's a big change.
Speaker 5:It was so. Talk about that. It was great. I love Dallas. It was such a cool place to be um. It's so cool.
Speaker 4:I had season tickets to the cowboys they were good back then they were good yeah I actually saw um landry coach, wow yeah, I.
Speaker 5:I think that to me is like what a milestone you know, saw landry coach and saw um several of the greats play, you know, and so that was pretty exciting and uh, got um, got a job, started off working there in a diamond store of all things. I know I needed a job so?
Speaker 3:so, children's services to a diamond? Yeah, to a diamond store? Okay, yeah, I needed a job store.
Speaker 5:Okay, yeah, I needed a job, and so I worked for them for a few years and then eventually moved back into working with kids, became a Dallas County probation officer.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 5:And worked with runaways.
Speaker 3:So talk about that, because that had to be pretty impactful.
Speaker 5:It was. That's probably the best thing I ever did. And well, no, that's probably the best thing I ever did. And um, well, no, that's not the best thing I ever did, but um, it was. Um, it was certainly eyeopening. Um, being a country kid and moving to Dallas was pretty eyeopening.
Speaker 5:And then the begin to work with kids who lived on the streets, and the program I worked with was under the Dallas County Probation but it was called LeTot and it was just the name of the building we actually were in and we specialized in working with kids who were runaways and trying to help them get back home and be able to live at home. Probably one of the most telling statistics for a runaway is that four out of five runaways are sexually or in some way abused, and so that was a major part of, and along with a lot of other things you know, with street kids and no families, and on and on and on. We could talk forever about all of that. So learning about these kids and working with them was it was certainly different than what I'd ever experienced before, but it was a. It was so impactful, so important. You know, when you went to work, you felt like you were doing something, something important.
Speaker 3:You know I admire people and children's services and doing something like that. How do you? How do you separate yourself? You go home at night, because I'm sure you probably made a connection with many of those kids that was probably very challenging to let go of. How do you manage that?
Speaker 5:Um, I don't know that you always do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Um, I think one of the most telling things that a kid said to me I had actually been away because I had gone on vacation or something. I don't remember why I was gone. I came back and this was a live-in facility. They were there for 30 days.
Speaker 5:So this young lady who I sat down and started to play a game with, and she looked at me and she says no adult has ever played with me before and that just broke my heart right there that no one had ever actually sat down with her and played with her or spent time just being normal not not being not doing anything like therapy or anything like that, just sitting and talking and playing a game, and that was the kind of things that that happened and some of the things were really. I mean, after that I was like, after talking to her, I felt so good about having done that and then, and then at the same time, there'd be other things that were pretty awful um that you know, uh hurt kids hurting themselves and and um, just just things that you'd.
Speaker 3:Very challenging. Yeah, yeah, very challenging things, that that you, I'm sure, had to be a try to be a positive influence because of the person that you are, and then follow whatever steps you were were, you know, supposed to follow to do your job.
Speaker 5:Yeah, sure, yeah.
Speaker 3:So you're in Dallas. How long did you do that?
Speaker 5:Um, I stayed uh 13 years.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 5:So and uh I, oh the weather, there was so much it was hard to leave because of the weather, um, but, um, I ended up coming home, mostly because of, well, there was a lot of reasons, but my dad had gotten really sick and, um, fortunately, through um surgery and the doctors, he had healed. But you, you know there was, they were getting both, my parents were getting elderly and I just felt the tug to come home. And, um, I hadn't married, um and um didn't have, uh, had ties definitely there, but didn't have the, the ties that meant I couldn't leave. And so, um, just felt like I needed to come home. Not intending to live in Eaton, not never intending to live in Eaton, I figured I'd end up in Cincinnati or Columbus or someplace like that. And um, here I am.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you. So you come home to help take care of your parents. And what are you doing for work?
Speaker 5:Well, I didn't really know at that moment. I had my degree, but again, I didn't really expect to teach, that really wasn't on my radar. But because I had my degree, I figured I could go to the ESC, which is the Educational Service Center, and see if there was some possibilities. And while I was, I think I was going to sub. I think that's why I went there. I can't really remember why I went, to be honest, but as I was standing there I saw on the counter a um thing for a job and it centered on working with at risk kids. Um, and it's like that's what I do. So, um, I was, a friend walked by at that point and I said is this like for real? What is this job here? And she happened to know and she looked at me and she said you could do this. And I said, yeah, I could.
Speaker 5:and so I ended up kind of falling into that job yeah and um did that, for it was called, uh, student assistance and it was, as said was, working with at-risk kids. And then, through again ESC, I got my validation with working with gifted kids, which was to me rather surprising because I don't consider myself gifted. But working with gifted kids and then eventually came to National Trail.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then you taught at National Trail for.
Speaker 5:I taught there for about 20 years.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you weren't going to be a teacher.
Speaker 5:No, I was not going to be a teacher.
Speaker 3:And you taught for 20 years.
Speaker 5:I am.
Speaker 3:Yeah, talk about National Trail, because National Trail is near and dear to my heart. Oh, you bet I love National Trail.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, I did not, you know, growing up National Trail you kind of was like when I was growing up it was kind of that school.
Speaker 3:Out there, out there in the country, yeah, out in the middle of the cornfield.
Speaker 5:And I was. I'm not even sure I knew exactly where it was to be honest. I'm not even sure I knew exactly where it was to be honest. But when I came home and started to learn about the education part of the county, I found that I did sub for a period and I found that National Trail was one of my favorite places to go. I liked the kids. I knew a few people who worked there, so it wasn't hard for me then to, when a position came open, to say hmm, I'm kind of interested, and so I ended up working there.
Speaker 5:I took Coach Hoff's spot when he went to Florida and um, and then of course he came back, but uh, yeah, so I ended up there for for 20 years.
Speaker 3:So let's talk about you know, that was what 2020, 2021, 2021. So we're right in the middle of COVID.
Speaker 5:No, I'm sorry, 2001. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I said 2021.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's, 2001 is when I started.
Speaker 3:And then you retired in 2020 with COVID. Let's talk about that, because COVID is one of those things we all had to deal with and figure out and try to understand and everybody's got you know, everybody's got their their opinions on it. But talk about you know what led you to retirement, and was it related to COVID or was it just time? It was just time.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I was um, I was going to be 65 and um, unlike a lot of people you know who start out teaching immediately and they get to retire when they're in their 50s, I had to go the whole time which I didn't mind.
Speaker 5:Again, I was not married, and so what would I be doing? And I never was unhappy going to work, was unhappy going to work. I was really fortunate, the whole time we were at Trail, or I was at Trail that the people I worked with were dynamite. I mean, I loved working with the people I worked with. Was it perfect? Oh heavens no, but it was comfortable and I felt appreciated and so yeah, and that's important in life, right it? Sure is it? Sure is it makes all the difference the kind of administration you had.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And except for a couple of years, our administration continues to be real good at trail?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5:And that's one of the reasons why it's as good as school as it is now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it is they for sure, and that's one of the reasons why it's as good as school as it is now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And it is that they're doing well. Um so, throughout that time you're, you're teaching and you're still caring for your parents.
Speaker 5:Yeah, um, mom or dad, I should say dad, um, he, um, dad had emphysema. He'd been a lifelong smoker and um his um, you know, his breathing was had been a became a real challenge for him. And um, in 2005, um, he passed. And then, uh, mom lived for another 10 years and in 2015 she passed. Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, so so you're caring for them and teaching and doing all those things back back in back in the hometown area. You're in Preble County, you weren't in Eaton, but are teaching in Eaton. So 2020 hits you retire. What's life look like then?
Speaker 5:Oh, that was strange. Um, that whole school year when we started out, I kept telling I taught high school and I taught seniors and, in particular, and I get kept telling that class, we're going to graduate together, we're going to graduate together. Um and um, it was such a fun class, I really enjoyed that class. And then all of a sudden, in March, we were done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And, um, I think, along with several of the people I knew, I had COVID. Before it was COVID, I think a lot of people did, and I had been sick more in that from January to March, more than I think the whole time I was, you know, worked and so I literally came back from being sick for a couple of days to somebody saying this is our last day. It's like what, how is that possible? And no, that's not, it's not going to be. Yeah, it was, we were done and um, so there's no prep.
Speaker 5:No there's no prep. You just, I mean, I knew it was going to be done at the end of the year, but I didn't know I was going to be done.
Speaker 3:In March, in March yeah.
Speaker 5:So we struggled through the classes struggled through because nobody was really in a real good place to be able to, because we had all these things yet to accomplish and you're not going to get it accomplished.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're not prepared because it was completely unexpected Right then. You're not going to get it accomplished.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you're not prepared because it was completely unexpected, right right?
Speaker 3:yeah, and so that was a challenging time. Here you are kind of, you know, riding the wave out with this group of seniors and then all of a sudden, bang, everything kind of stops and changes, and now you've got to change how you teach right and what that looks like, and probably knowing we're not coming back to finish out the year.
Speaker 5:Yeah, one thing that Trail has done really, really well, and I imagine still does, is we had the technology. Thanks to our technology guy, brian Poole, our technology is, I'll say it, probably better than anybody else in Provo County.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I'm sure there'll be people who won't appreciate me saying that, but I'm pretty certain and because of that and I like technology my kids were. We worked from the computer. I didn't rely on the computer to do everything, but they were comfortable with the way I taught and that they could use the computer. And so some things were different, but we were able to get through and finish up the year somewhat successful.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, so we'll fast forward a little bit. Okay, to 2024, on your birthday. Can you talk about kind of leading up to that point? I know we'd had some conversations and reading you know what you'd sent me on answering some of my questions, but you were sick. Right, you were feeling sick. Things weren't good for you.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I've been a pretty healthy person all my life. Don't like to go to the doctor because I'm never sick. So I went on a cruise with a friend of mine and didn't feel terrible, but didn't feel, you know, didn't feel as good as I usually do and came home found out that I had a UTI Okay, big deal, got over that but still didn't feel great. And this is getting into May now and get to Memorial Day and find that I'm or Memorial Weekend anyways, and find that I'm a Memorial weekend anyways, and find that I'm having back pain and, um, I don't again, I don't have that kind of problem, and so and of course it was a holiday.
Speaker 5:So I thought, well, I, and it seems like if you call for a doctor's appointment, it takes forever now. So I went to the emergency room and explained what it was and what was going on and fortunately they took me serious and did all kinds of tests and all the tests came back fine, I was good. The only thing that the doctor mentioned was that my lymph nodes were enlarged and he said that could be any number of things, um, including cancer, and then he left and I'm like, oh, okay, well, it's no big deal right yeah, it's just, and I'll be in touch with my regular doctor.
Speaker 5:And so then we started the process of checking everything and all my tests were coming back normal, everything was fine, except that they began to feel like maybe my gallbladder was giving me the problem because I was still having back pain. I was still having and I was so tired and I was so tired it was. I have a dog and I would walk my dog every day and I could hardly walk my dog. I could get so far and then I'd have to stop and wait, catch my breath and then walk back to my house. My poor dog didn't hardly know what was going on. Walked back to my house, my poor dog didn't hardly know what was going on.
Speaker 5:And um, so that was, um, that was in june and they decided it was my gallbladder. So I had my gallbladder taken out in beginning of july and, um, that doctor, um, did a biopsy. Um, I think when he took the gallbladder out he knew probably what was going on. And um, they uh did the biopsy. And then on my birthday they called and said you have cancer. And I can't say I was surprised. Um, I really wasn't. Something was up. I knew that by that time that I was sick, something was wrong.
Speaker 5:Something was wrong. I didn't dwell on the thought that it could be cancer. I certainly didn't do that but, it was, there was something wrong, definitely.
Speaker 3:So how did that hit you when, when you actually when it kind of confirmed in your mind what you may have been thinking how did it hit you?
Speaker 5:Well, um, I think the thing that that hit me most was I've got to tell my family and um, there was cancer in um, my oldest brother's uh wife died of cancer. Her family unfortunately had has cancer pretty prevalent in there, and my niece, um, is a 10-year survivor of breast cancer. And so I think the thing that hit me first was I didn't want to tell my family. I mean, I wanted to tell them because I I needed them, but I didn't want to tell them that. I didn't want to say you know, um, here we go again for them. And that was probably the thing that hit me first was having to share that with them. And then after that it was like okay, you know, I have lived on my own all my life, I am independent on my own all my life. I have my um, I am um independent um, I, uh, I have always been independent.
Speaker 5:I've had to be right so this is just one more thing, um, and that I have to deal with. But the the good news for me was I didn't have to deal with it alone. I had a big God, um, and I knew that, I knew he was big and he was big enough to handle this. And, um, I did not um, I did not fear, I never did Um, I, I said to my pastor, I said I don't quite understand it, yet I do, I'm not afraid, and I know this could be a death sentence, I know that, whether it is or not, you know I'm his. And there's a verse that I came across after this, not before this, but after this. It says if I live, I live to the Lord. If I die, I die to the Lord. If I die, I die to the Lord. If I live or die, I'm his and that's okay, that's the best, that's a win-win, that's that's. You know, if I, if I'm healed, it's a win. If I go to Jesus, it's an even bigger win. In my mind, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's amazing and and and this is very fresh, right, I mean when you, when you say July, you're talking just July, seven months eight months ago, seven months ago. Yeah, so you tell your family what's their reaction.
Speaker 5:Cheers.
Speaker 5:I mean, we were all crying Um but, yeah, but you know, I felt they were going to be there. I knew they were going to be there. I didn't have to worry about that. They were going to be there. But at the same time, you know, unless you've gone through something like this, you really don't know what that means that they're going to be there. And again, it's still hard to put into words. You really don't know until you know, um, until you experience it and um, yeah, I have a amazing family. Um, they all just stepped in. I mean, I couldn't even vacuum my floor. I literally went three months without cleaning my house.
Speaker 5:My mom would have been rolling in her grave and, yeah, I couldn't run a vacuum cleaner. I was lucky if I could get up out of bed, and I would. I would never stay in bed, but I'd get up out of bed and I'd make it to my chair and, um, maybe make it to the kitchen to get something to eat, but I had stopped eating. I could hardly eat anything, and then I'd come back to my chair and then eventually I'd go to bed and that was about as much energy as I had. There just wasn't any energy at all and, um, that was the thing that that was. So I'm not a super, you know, going all the time kind of person. I never have been that way. But to not be able to do anything was, I mean, my car sat for weeks and never moved because I wasn't moving.
Speaker 3:It's one thing, the toll on your body, right, you know what you're dealing with going through chemo, the treatments but I think probably the bigger toll is maybe on your mind, right.
Speaker 5:Yeah Well, yes, tolls maybe on your mind, right?
Speaker 5:Yeah Well yes, I mean I felt that was actually an area where I was strong because of my God, because of, because of my faith. Um, I didn't have anything in the word, in the way of of strength, but I could, I could be in the word, I could pray, I could um, um, talk to him, um, I really um, I. I often would think about if, if you didn't, if for someone who didn't have my faith like the faith I had, or whatever, what would it be like for them? And I couldn't imagine it. It would have been awful, because in the middle of the night, when you're alone in that hospital bed, there's nothing except yourself, and if that's all you got, that's sad, that is um, and I can see how people would be. Just so, um, I can't even think of the right word Overwhelmed.
Speaker 5:Yeah, um, and I, I can say, yeah, I got overwhelmed, but I didn't feel, um, hopeless, uh, uh, I felt hope the whole time. I never felt hopeless and, again, I didn't know whether I was going to live or die. I didn't and I had no, nothing, you know. I know some people say, well, you know, the lord has given me this or whatever, and, um, he gave me hope, but he did not say you're gonna live. He never said that and and, but I, as time, say you're going to live. He never said that, and and, but I, as time went on, I began to understand yeah, I was gonna live, I, I'm, I think I'm, I feel like I'm going to live. And um at um, do you want to hear about what the chemo was?
Speaker 1:Absolutely Okay.
Speaker 5:And because that was surprising to me. You know, you hear about the people who go and have chemo and they sit in the chair and then they come home, right. Well, the doctor says to me okay, you're going to be here and you're going to be in the hospital. When I say here, you're going to be in the hospital for five to eight days and you're going to be in the hospital. When I say here, you're gonna be in the hospital for five to eight days and you're going to have chemo, and the chemo is going to run 22 hours a day, I'm looking at his face his big eyes.
Speaker 5:Well, he was wrong. It was 24 to 26 hours a day, wow, and because that's how they filled the chemo bag. And so what I would, um, what I would do is you're hooked up, you have a what's called a port where they hook you up and, uh, to this bag, and you have Gladys that was my little tree that I walked around with, that's what I called her. So Gladys and I would go everywhere together and, um, this, um. Then they had the bag that was covered in a black plastic because it could not be open to the light. You know, if you think, if you know what a infusion bag is, um, where you get saline, you know, or something like that you know that that's open to the light and there's no problem with this.
Speaker 5:can't be open to the light. This has to be completely covered in a black bag, or a dark bag anyways. And um in, so what, um, in talking to my niece, who's Molly, who was, like I said, is a cancer survivor, she told me when she went through it she had breast cancer, so it was a little different, but she told me that when they gave her her first infusion, they said this is called the red devil and because it's that you and because it's that, yeah, yeah, it's that.
Speaker 5:It's that difficult. And she said she decided in her mind that it was not going to be the red devil but the blood of jesus. See it's red the chemo is. Is is kind of a red, reddish orange yeah and I thought holy cow way to go molly. Way to go molly, yeah, way to go molly and so every time they hooked me up to it, it was like blood of jesus, blood of jesus coming through my veins giving you strength, giving me strength.
Speaker 5:That's exactly right. Um, I told you that I had um backs. My back was hurting so, and the first time they hooked me up, within 10 minutes, that back pain was gone.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that was strange, that was surprising and strange.
Speaker 3:Well, cause it had been bothering you for months and months. Right, yeah, give me. Yeah, you're good, so you're. You're going through this 24 to 26 hours of treatment, and this is every this was, um, when it finally settled down.
Speaker 5:The first week was eight days, but they were getting me all kind of set up, you know. And then after that it was uh, you, I was there for five days, um, and then I would go home, and then, um, then the very next day you came back and you had one more treatment. So I guess you could say six days of treatment and then I'd be home for two weeks. And in that first week, first five to seven days, I just felt awful and the strain machines got to back up for for a second while I was in treatment and I was good, I felt good. I mean, yeah, I had to drag Gladys with me everywhere I went, but I did not, I was not sick. Um, I never.
Speaker 5:Um, I take that back, I did once, um, but you know, most people talk about the nausea and all of that. Well, they, they did a lot to prevent that. I mean, the care you get now, compared to what you used to hear about cancer, is like night and day different. It really is. At least for me it was. And they, I, I felt fine, they, um, I, I felt fine, uh, I did not. Uh, I could get up. I could walk. Once I started getting strength back, um, I could do, um, really just about anything I needed to do, um to just accept I couldn't leave the hospital. I was. I had to be there for the treatment, but then, once the treatment was over with, that's when I started to feel crappy.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and so for the next five to seven days, depending, I would be not sick, but just did not feel good.
Speaker 3:Kind of nauseous, kind of like a flu feeling maybe.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I can't say I had a lot of nausea, but again I had a lot of medication to help me with that, so I avoided most of that. But you know, I would go in again. I talked about sitting in my chair. I would sit with my in the chair, with my head in my hands and just sit there for who knows how long. I mean just because that's as far as I could get. And, um, of course, I lost my hair, which was pretty funny Actually. I thought that was hilarious and I don't think it's hilarious.
Speaker 4:I lost my hair too. I wear a hat.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you one thing yeah sure.
Speaker 3:Is there significance to the name Gladys?
Speaker 5:No, not really, Except that there's a really, really old joke, that I can't tell jokes at all, I don't remember them, but there's one joke that I remember, and it's Gladys. It has to do with a Gladys, so that's it.
Speaker 3:That's the only reason. I was just curious, because here you know you're spending 24, 26 hours with Gladys right? Just curious if there was any just a funny name.
Speaker 4:Okay, I'm just glad that you said that you named it Gladys Cause, otherwise I'd have been going somewhere and being like now that's your Gladys right.
Speaker 1:What are you talking about?
Speaker 4:So I'm glad you saved me that embarrassment. It's not like, gladys, what are you talking about? I'm glad you saved me that embarrassment.
Speaker 5:Yeah, no, it's just you. Humor became really important. I mean, I'm a person who likes to laugh. I mean I am not a down in your dumps kind of a person I've always been. I've always tried to smile and be somebody that has a positive look always tried to smile and be somebody that has a positive look.
Speaker 3:And hearing your story, I think that's pretty obvious, because look at what you did, you know. When you started out in child services, you go to Dallas and you're helping runaway kids and then you become a teacher. I mean, your whole life has been about service to others and having to be that positive influence Right. So I would expect nothing less.
Speaker 3:It's pretty, it's pretty amazing to see. So you, you get through the chemo treatments. What's that like? And what's next for you? What are the doctors telling you? What's? Because this is. When did you finish chemo?
Speaker 5:I finished the end of November.
Speaker 3:Okay, so no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5:The beginning of November, sorry.
Speaker 3:So we're just talking three, four months yeah.
Speaker 5:I'm pretty new to this. Yeah, let me step back for just a second Between the third and, I'm sorry, the second and no third and fourth. Third and fourth treatment I had a PET scan and, to begin with, before I even started with treatment, I had a PET scan and, to begin with, before I even started with treatment, I had a PET scan and they showed the picture of that and I was full of cancer in my lymph nodes in my face area through all the way down into, um, uh, my torso, uh, all the way into my torso. I was full of cancer.
Speaker 3:So like what's they? They put that in stages right.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, yes and no, um, my, um, my family actually asked that question what stage is this? And? And the doctor said it's. It's different. We're used to hearing, especially because of breast cancer, the stages, and for what I had was B cell lymphoma, which is a blood cancer, and, um, what they? This is different. I had aggressive B cell lymphoma type two, which in and as he explained it to my family, it would be similar to stage four breast cancer, but with B cell you have a greater chance of cure. Okay, so, um, yeah, so it's a little yeah, yeah, there's hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:And he, he was real honest. He says there's no guarantee. He said, but there's, there is cure on this. Um, and that's why they were so aggressive from the very beginning, because, uh, I was so full of cancer, full of cancer. And um, so between my third and fourth I had another PET scan. And PET scan is just very simple. It's just they run it through the machine and out and you know so there's no. You know they're not being poked or probed or anything but um. So, in waiting to find out, my brother and sister-in-law, dean and Susan, were there in the room and we were going to wait for the doctor to come and talk and we were like, oh gosh, you know what's going on. Well, I feel better, I do feel better, so I've got to be at least some better. I mean, but you don't know. And um, he comes in and, uh, dr leonhardt gotta say his name and comes in and um says, um, there's no cancer. It's like what?
Speaker 1:wow, he says um.
Speaker 5:There's no discernible cancer, it's gone wow are you kidding me? Nope, you are cancer free at this moment did you just want to jump for joy? Well, after you left, I got up out of bed and did a happy dance for sure I did get up and dance.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that was like I said I felt good, I felt like I was better. I didn't know that I was cancer free, but I was better. But he said that we're going to continue to do all six treatments because I want to get you into as deep a remission as I can get you, and I was okay for that. Yeah, definitely, as long as the insurance pays, I'm okay. And so, yeah, when he left, yeah, we got up, we cried, we hugged and we and I danced.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And so. So then, from third to fourth Through six, it was about being in remission and being, and I have to say, the, the. I was on the third floor at Kettering, maine, and those people, they were amazing to me, um, kind and um, just such a blessing. Um, there was no, no one that I mean. Yeah, they got me up at all kinds of hours and because you have to take all of the, the, the different tests and the different um medicines and yeah and but, um, they were, they were the best, and I can't say enough good things about them.
Speaker 5:I had a group of doctors that were great. I mean, there were all kinds of funny, weird, silly things that happened. We laughed a lot and you learn to just okay, and that's part of what is really important for me to say is you learn to understand that you're not in control anymore, and that is for me. I've had to be in control all my life. I had to take care of business because it was me, and so to not be in control was eye-opening, but it was freeing too. It was so freeing to be able to just okay, lord, you're in control, you're going to work the hands of the doctors and you're going to be the nurses and I'm just going to trust in you. I'm going to trust yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm going to trust. And yeah, deb, that's an amazing story. You're an amazing you.
Speaker 5:I'm going to trust, yeah, and I'm going to trust, and yeah.
Speaker 3:Deb, that's an amazing story. You're an amazing woman. I've got a couple of questions for you. I want you to answer for our listeners out there, because I think every family in some way, shape or form, has been impacted by cancer.
Speaker 5:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Right. Whether it's a family member, a friend or whoever it may be, we all know someone who's who's been given that diagnosis.
Speaker 1:So for someone who may have been given that diagnosis today, when they're listening to, this.
Speaker 5:What advice do you have for them To to trust God? Um, to trust God, it's hard to answer that question. I mean, for somebody who is a Christian, who believes in God, believes in Jesus, that he's our Savior, it's a little easier to answer. It's a harder thing to answer when you don't have that and that is I mean I to be able to, to understand what's even happening to you without having faith. Um, to do that without faith, you would have to. I don't know how you could do it. I just I can't really imagine not having my faith and having to go through that. I think I had, in truth, probably an easier time than most people did through cancer.
Speaker 5:Because of your faith, because of my faith, but also, yeah, because my faith. I I don't. I believe god gave me um an easier time too. Um, I could hear people um in a, in other rooms being sick rooms, being sick, but then I don't again, I don't know what. What they had or what was the their problem. Um, I didn't have that. Um, I had um, like I said I, it's a hard question to answer, I mean, it's an easy question to answer.
Speaker 3:No, you did a good job.
Speaker 5:I mean, it's an easy question to answer if, like I said, if you have the faith.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:It's just, yeah, rely on the Lord, get that Bible out, get that and begin to read. And you don't have to have a huge long background, you don't have to be a pastor to be able to, um, just open that that thing up. I have a? Um, I gotten, um this little book, um called god's promises, and I had been, I had kind of gotten into it prior to this whole thing, and it has just all kinds of verses that are the promises that exist in the Bible and that became man. That was with me everywhere.
Speaker 5:I was just hanging on to that for dear life. In fact, when I ended up having to go to the emergency room at the very beginning of this, I had it in my purse and I was hanging on to that just to be able to read that. That meant everything, just to be able was hanging on to that, to just to be able to read that. That means that meant everything, just to be able to hang on to that and to read that Bible and hang on to that. If you don't have that, then my, my um advice would be um, find somebody to let you have a Bible get a.
Speaker 5:Bible, um, and then just begin to read and just let God do what he does so well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a. That's a great answer, great answer. So, as we land this plane, a little bit, this has flown by for you, don't you think I?
Speaker 1:mean we're. We're almost an hour in and you're kidding, you're cranking, you're doing a great job.
Speaker 3:So I got, I got two questions, two final questions, okay. First one is is if you could have a conversation with someone, living or deceased, who would it be and why?
Speaker 5:Um, you saw my answer, didn't you Maybe?
Speaker 1:That was yeah.
Speaker 5:Okay, uh, my grandma Stover. My grandma Stover was my dad's mom and um she, um she, she was a toot. She was something else. And soon after I moved back from Texas, I went with some friends to play mud volleyball and she happened to be, she happened to be visiting at that time, and she said to my aunt, um that basically I would not, how could I possibly turn out to be anything if I was playing mud volleyball?
Speaker 3:and so, uh, when I saw that question, I thought, yeah, I want to tell grandma was okay I turned out okay, you, you did good, I did good All right last question, as you're going through everything that you've been through in your entire life, especially here in the past six months or a year, with everything that you've battled through. Is there a Bible verse? Is there a quote? Is there something that gets you through daily that you can share with our listeners?
Speaker 5:one or a couple. I have so many. I'm scrolling down to find the one that I because unfortunately I um have chemo brain and can't remember necessarily everything I want to say- You've done great so far.
Speaker 5:One that I have had most of my life, which was Psalm 34, 4, is I sought the Lord and he heard me and he delivered me from all my fears. That's one that I've had long, long before this ever happened, but I would say probably the one that I have come back to often is Romans 8, 38 and 39. And it says for I'm persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate me us from the love of God, which is Christ Jesus, our Lord, and I just love that.
Speaker 1:That's great, I just love that.
Speaker 5:So there were a lot. There were so many that I came across, and you know when things were rough. I had a real tough time with being dehydrated for a long period of time, and I came across one that had to do with the water, living water, and so whenever something you know was in particular was an issue, it seemed like there would be a verse that would pop that would just go. Oh, that's me Okay.
Speaker 3:That's amazing. I got that, Ben. You have any questions?
Speaker 4:I'm just. I've been all amazed. I just I don't know. You know you talk about, you didn't have any fears and that was the Bible verse. You just said you live by right. What was?
Speaker 5:it.
Speaker 4:Psalm 34?. Is that what it was? It was.
Speaker 5:Psalm no, it was Romans 8.
Speaker 4:Romans 8, and then what was the one before that?
Speaker 5:34.
Speaker 4:that 34, four 34, four, that was Psalms. Yeah, yeah, and say that one more time Okay, sorry, no it's all right.
Speaker 5:I just I have to read it. I sought the Lord and he heard me. That's the part.
Speaker 4:He heard me Right and he delivered me from all my fears, right and right before you talked about when you you know your battle with cancer what'd you say?
Speaker 5:It was weird, I didn't have any fears.
Speaker 4:I didn't have any fear at all.
Speaker 5:If I live, great I lived a Lord, and if I die, I die of the Lord, and that's all, that's all of our goals.
Speaker 4:Right To die and go up there and he looks at you and says well done. You know, I just thought when you said that to be anything you, the verse you live by and that's I just. I don't know. I get chills thinking about it honestly, it's amazing.
Speaker 4:And I mean we've all been in those situations too, of people of Christ that you know. I remember the first time someone prayed with Jude, my son, when he was in the NICU, you know, and you hear people say you pray all the time and I feel like people that aren't christians that hear you pray they're probably thinking like, hey, just please be with deb, and that's it, yeah, right. And then here's somebody really pray like, hey, the doctors that are going to work on her be with it. You know, give them knowledge to deal with what they're she's dealing with, give them the hands. I mean, you know, when somebody really prays for you and you hear it, you know, and you know you have people like that it just it adds a whole other layer of confidence and just knowing how loved you really feel.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that was the thing that I think humbled me more than anything else was to to, and we talked a little bit about my family but but also the people who came around me from my church and and and not just my church, but they were obviously those who are closest to me. Um, I mean they would do things like come into my house and and were closest to me. I mean they would do things like come into my house and clean it for me, mow my yard, a number of things. But the biggest thing was when they said they prayed. And then they would say and then I told my cousin, who told her Bible group they are praying there in South Carolina, and then you would hear somebody else would say, when I was driving by your house, I prayed, I mean that I amazing yeah.
Speaker 5:I mean, that just chokes me with with all kinds of feelings and emotions and and what a gift that I mean. These are, these are people that I knew, but I can't say were big buds necessarily, but they were. They, um, cared enough and and it makes you feel which is part of the reason why I'm here, because doing this is not on my bucket list- but if it was, you could mark it all, yeah.
Speaker 5:Which is, you know, god healed me for a reason, and when I was going through this, especially when I knew I was cancer free, I was like then, what's next, lord? What do you want from me now?
Speaker 5:Because I know I can't, you can't have done this without expecting Right and um, so what is next? And certainly this wasn't what I thought of, but you know, I had thought about maybe some other things and um, but that's what was. When I talked to you I was like I don't want this about, necessarily about me, but I wanted, about you, know what, what he did, and to his glory.
Speaker 3:You know what's you know? What's amazing is is that almost everyone that that comes and sits at this table and tells their story says the exact same thing. I don't want it to be about me. And what I tell you it's your story, right? It is about you. But ultimately it's about the listener who hears the story right, who finds hope and inspiration in whatever difficulties they might be facing, because to see you know your your life's journey again, a servant leader. Everything you've done has been service to others, not about you, right? You come on here and you tell your story so that others can hear it and find hope and inspiration. And I don't know if you saw the shirt that I'm wearing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So this is, this was kind of it's not kind of. This was the motto of be tempered when we started, and I don't know if you saw the shirt that I'm wearing. So this was kind of it's not kind of. This was the motto of Be Tempered when we started and I had the shirt. I pulled it out this morning. I'm like this is what I'm going to wear when we interview Deb, and it's a Bible verse, isaiah 43, verse 2. It says when you pass through the waters, I will be with you, and when you pass through the rivers, I will be with you. And when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned, the flames will not set you ablaze.
Speaker 3:And so I haven't wore this shirt on a podcast, yet it is a be tempered shirt. I haven't wore it, but for whatever reason this morning, you know, I I just I felt called to um, to wear it today, and and I wasn't even gonna read the Bible verse, but as, as the more and more you were talking, it was like you know what? This is why I wore, wore the shirt so, um, that your story is a true testament to the power of resilience, faith and an unbreakable spirit. Through the toughest challenges, you've shown that strength isn't about never falling. It's about getting back up and moving forward with grace and courage. I thank you for sharing your journey with us today. Your unwavering hope and determination inspire us all to live with purpose, to embrace every moment and to never give up. And no matter the obstacles, I'm sure your story will continue to uplift and empower many who hear it.
Speaker 5:Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:Really, really appreciate you coming on and telling your story. Really appreciate Molly pushing you as well.
Speaker 5:Thank you, molly. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, she was a big help. Yeah, she was.
Speaker 3:And she's an amazing woman. I had the pleasure of coaching her son Noah, who's the same age as my son Nate and four years in basketball. Great kid, it's hard to believe that they're 15-year-old freshmen in high school and all that crazy stuff. But truly grateful for you. Thank you and grateful for your journey and excited to see where you go next.
Speaker 5:Yeah, me too, I really am. I think guys got you know. Well, I've already, in just this short time, done things that I didn't expect. No, not even close. Well, everybody, if you're not inspired by this story, you didn't expect. No, not even close.
Speaker 3:Well, everybody, if you're not inspired by this story, you didn't listen. Be sure to share Deb's story. It's amazing. Someone out there you know again is battling cancer or have been given that diagnosis, and this is a true testament to how to get through it with faith.
Speaker 5:With faith, there you go. I didn't do it on my own.
Speaker 3:You didn't, you didn't Everybody go out and be tempered.
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