BeTempered
BeTempered
BeTempered Episode 62 – Jeff Swanson: Finding Fire in the Fog of Depression
Some friendships are built on shared victories, bruises, and sweat—on long bus rides and harder losses. But the deepest friendships aren’t just remembered; they return when we need them most.
In this deeply moving episode of BeTempered, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr reconnect with Jeff Swanson, a former University of Dayton teammate and roommate whose story is both heart-wrenching and hope-filled. What begins as a conversation between old friends quickly transforms into a profound exploration of grief, resilience, fatherhood, and the transformative power of mental toughness.
Jeff opens up about one of the darkest chapters of his life: losing his father to cancer and the silent storm of depression that followed. On the outside, he appeared strong—working, functioning, pushing forward. But internally, he was unraveling. The moment that snapped him out of the spiral wasn’t some dramatic intervention—it was something bizarre, almost absurd. In the middle of a therapy session, his counselor fainted, and Jeff had to help him. The moment of role reversal jolted something inside: “If I can help someone else while I’m at my lowest, maybe I’m stronger than I think.”
That realization sparked the beginning of Jeff’s transformation. He made the decision to stop relying on medication, not out of recklessness, but out of a renewed commitment to taking ownership of his mental and emotional healing. He leaned into gratitude. He embraced daily discipline. And over time, he began rebuilding his life from the inside out.
But this isn’t just Jeff’s story. It’s also the story of how one man’s decision to change himself ended up changing the lives of many—including Dan’s. At a high school football game, Jeff casually mentioned a program called 75 Hard. That brief conversation planted a seed. Dan took on the challenge, pushed himself mentally and physically, and ultimately, that experience became the foundation for the Be Tempered podcast itself.
Together, the three men reflect on how discipline and vulnerability walk hand-in-hand—how strength is born not just in lifting weights or showing up every day, but in daring to be honest about where you are and what you’re struggling with. Jeff's journey illustrates a core theme of Be Tempered: the idea that pain, when faced head-on, becomes purpose.
One of the most powerful moments in the episode comes when Jeff reflects on being a father—something he almost couldn’t imagine during his darkest moments. “I look at my son… I put him down to sleep and I’m like, I can’t believe I’m blessed to have this child.” It’s a moment of clarity, of awe, of deep and quiet joy that only comes after walking through the fire.
Throughout the episode, Ben offers sharp insights that ground the conversation, reminding listeners that we are never the only ones going through something. And Dan, now years removed from that high school football game conversation, speaks from a place of gratitude—thankful not only for the friendship but for the chain reaction it caused. The podcast itself, this community, this movement—it all began with one vulnerable conversation.
As Ben reflects, “You never know who’s watching you. You never know who you’re going to impact by one decision you make.” That one decision—choosing vulnerability over silence, courage over comfort—can ripple into lives you may never see.
This isn’t just an episode about football or mental health or personal transformation. It’s about what happens when we stop pretending we’re fine and start showing up as we are. It’s about how true strength is forged—not in comfort, but in fire.
Listen now at BeTempered.com or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember: your toughest challenges might be the
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt. This is my dad, dan. He owns Catron's Glass. Thanks, allie. Things like doors and windows go into making a house, but when it's your home, you expect more like the great service and selection you'll get from Catron's Glass. Final replacement windows from Catron's come with a lifetime warranty, including accidental glass breakage replacement. Also ask for custom shower doors and many other products and services. Call 962-1636. Locally owned, with local employees for nearly 30 years, kitchen's best, the clear choice.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we explore the art of finding balance in a chaotic world.
Speaker 3:Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, practical tips and inspiring stories to help you navigate life's ups and downs with grace and resilience.
Speaker 2:We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr. Let's embark on a journey to live our best lives. This is Be Tempered.
Speaker 2:What's up everybody. Welcome to the Be Tempered podcast, Episode number 62. 62. That's 10 stronger than 52, which was, a year ago, Our goal. Yeah, Wow, Still cranking man. Today on the Be Tempered podcast, I'm sitting down with one of my best friends, Jeff Swanson. Jeff and I go way back college football teammates, co-captains, roommates. For two years. We shared blood, sweat and tears on and off the field. We've stood beside each other at our weddings and now we watch our kids grow up while we keep pushing each other to get better every single day. Jeff is the guy who introduced me to 75 hard and, trust me, he doesn't just talk about discipline, he lives it. He's a dedicated teacher, a strong leader and someone who's never backed down from a challenge, From high school bodybuilding to tearing it up on the football field to running his first half marathon recently. This is going to be a good one a conversation about friendship, discipline, growth and the grit it takes to keep showing up for yourself and for the people you love. Jeff, welcome.
Speaker 4:Well, that was a much better intro. I remember hearing one of your podcasts early on. You had mentioned my name and you just kept saying, yeah, Swanson's, he's something. And then you said he's the show and I'm like I don't know if this is good or bad. I feel like I got to redeem myself, so it only took maybe 58 episodes before you got me on here.
Speaker 2:But no, I'm excited to be here, excited to meet everyone, ben listen to you and Dan, and so, yeah, this is great yeah man, you know, like we talked about just a little bit ago before we started recording.
Speaker 2:You know, everybody that I talk to is like I don't have a story. I don't have a story and what people are going to gain from this one is our friendship, but two is I told you earlier you're the reason that we're sitting here right now because you know, two and a half three years ago, in October of 2022, when, when we were at a football game and you started telling me about 75 hard, that was the moment that changed everything for me, and so, um, there would be no be tempered podcast without that conversation, and so I am, I am forever grateful for you talking about that and sharing that with me, and so, anyways, we'll get into that. But you know how we like to start every podcast is we want your story, we want to hear about where you grew up, what life was like for you as a kid, and then we'll get into high school and college. So tell us about growing up in Cincinnati.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I grew up in a pretty big West Chester's north of Cincinnati as a suburb and lived there most of my life, born in Miami and then with my dad's job at the time, you know we kind of moved around previous to me being born so ended up back in Cincinnati where Ohio is where all my family roots are from. Was the youngest of two older brothers. My parents divorced early on so I didn't really remember the divorce but growing up I was with my mom and my mom ended up remarrying and my dad ended up remarrying. My mom and my mom ended up remarrying and my dad ended up remarrying and to my mom's credit, she shared with me one time that after that divorce because she's her family's originally from Cleveland, that she was, you know, really wanting to move back. But just a testament to her strength, she wanted us to have a relationship with my father you know me and my brother.
Speaker 4:So we didn't she didn't't want to move us too far away.
Speaker 4:But growing up, you know, it's like just typical, like you had a bunch of neighbor kids, you know I remember playing like a lot of housing houses were being built at times. We were playing around like foundations and throwing like rocks at each other and playing sports backyard football and basketball and then I got into, you know, youth sports and for me, like I got into playing football and baseball and basketball and for me it was, you know, because there was times like I'm very grateful for not only having family, like in my life, my mom, my dad, you know, my step parents, played a role in all me growing up. But there was also family drama, you know there was arguments at times and for me it was the playing football as an outlet because I I could, I was kind of a contact kid. I was quiet, you know, in the classroom but I was kind of a contact kid and I always liked the physicality of sports and especially football. And and my two older brothers, you know they were, they're both, uh, they got, uh, they were engineers post-college.
Speaker 2:They're smart ones.
Speaker 1:They're very smart.
Speaker 4:And they they always were into their hobbies, like they would get a new bike and mom would buy probably get them a new bike, you know, for Christmas or something, and so they'd take it apart, you know, and put up a sign like bike shop. You know they were just into those things. But they also played a huge role in developing me as this other kid that liked to play sports. I was more into that area and I think that was an outlet for them because I think they kind of took the blunt of going through that hard time of divorce, but especially my middle brother, brian. My little brother's name is Mike, but they just played such a huge part in my upbringing.
Speaker 4:So later on in high school went on just you know, okay student more interested in playing football wrestling. You know that was my main interest and that's all I could really think about, you know was just playing sports.
Speaker 2:Were there any coaches, maybe at the youth level or maybe even high school? That had a big impact on you.
Speaker 4:You know, yes, I got to say all my experiences with and I'm going to paint a broad brush with my coaches were all positive, like I don't have a negative experience and later on, when we talk about UD, it was all like they never got personal, like when they went after you for something you did wrong, they corrected you, they were very honest, but it was always at that level where, like they didn't call it your manhood. You know what I mean. Everything was, and I think that's really important. It's something I carried on when I coached post-college. But just even like my wrestling coach, my head football coach at a high school level like those are guys I still talk to and I was still like I saw them a couple years ago, like my head wrestling coach, and we gave each other a hug. You know what I mean. It's like we had, I had a lot of respect for them and yeah, so it was always a great positive experience for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that's all good stuff. So you go through high school. Had Lakota switched to East and West at the time, or was it one?
Speaker 4:I was still one. We were the last class to go through, so it was almost like 700 kids that I graduated with, and then it split after that.
Speaker 2:So you graduated in 1997. Correct, yeah, right, so we're the same age and that you graduated in 1997. Correct, yeah, it's for the same age. And obviously had some success in football, because where you and I met was the University of Dayton. So talk about that. What made you want to go to UD and kind of that transition from high school into college?
Speaker 4:So I remember I was going to a couple other universities and you know, at first you're getting letters and questionnaires from the big schools and you're excited and you know you walk around school and you kind of have that envelope with West Virginia on. You know, you know, and uh, and I remember my freshman, uh, football coach, um, he was coaching to freshman level but he saw me in the hallway my senior year and he goes. You know, you're going to know that you're in the right spot on these recruiting trips because of the feeling you'll get. So I went to a lot of different visitation visits with schools and when I went to UD the first thing there's a couple things I noticed right away was how professional it was.
Speaker 4:I felt a connection with Coach Chamberlain who was that recruited the Southwest Ohio and hearing the stories, it actually it was Coach Trevor Andrews. He was a senior, he's the head coach there now at UD. He said you know, I have, um, I have friends that are playing division one, but they don't have the same relationships that we have here with most of the players at UD. And then the last one was they played the highlight video, uh, in front of all of us, and I'm sitting there with my mom and I look over and she's like crying Really, and I'm like, and then I see what they're playing. They're playing the senior, last senior game, where they call the names up and the players run and hug their families.
Speaker 4:So that got mom, which I know they did on purpose.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so it was instant, not instant, it was still some back and forth, but yeah, I knew it was, uh, instant, like not instant, it was still some back and forth, but yeah, I knew it was a good fit for me. Yeah, I had a similar experience. Uh, you know I don't remember mom crying, but you know just the same kind of feeling. It was one of those where, you know, when I I was fortunate coach kelly was was my, my recruiting guy. So you know, it was nice having the head coach, as it really made you feel extra special even though I was from the cornfields of Preble County, ohio.
Speaker 2:So just the same thing, just that feeling of unity, that feeling of family, I mean it just felt right. And so I was thinking about this this morning. I was listening, I was running, listening to uh Jocko and uh um, they were talking about who's with Jocko, who's his, who's his Ben.
Speaker 4:Oh gosh, the big black guy. I know I should know this too. Uh, Echo Charles.
Speaker 2:Echo Charles. So Echo must've played college ball, okay. So he was talking about going through three days in college and just the the torment and the torture and just the hell that it was and how, when he was a freshman, he went in and was like this really sucks, you know this. This is like what am I here for? Why am I doing this? And he kept watching the upperclassmen just saying, hey, just wait till school starts. When school starts, things will ease up. So what I what it made me think of was our freshman year three days. Do you remember where we went and how they were busing us?
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, and you know it's everything's new. And I'm looking at these upperclassmen. I'm like they look like they're old enough to be my dad. They got like mustaches and they're balding already. And I'm like, because you come from the high school, you're the top dog and now you're getting humbled big time. And this time, like you said, our field was being redone.
Speaker 4:So we had to go and bus to Kettering Fields, which you know it sounds pity, but that was like an extra 20 minutes each way. But now that's your break that you're not getting, and then at that time you're looking forward to that break. And I remember we had to do like a 40-yard running test or something to that effect and the upper class were running beast and they they measured the field wrong. Yeah, so, uh, they weren't making time. They weren't making times and they were just looking like they were dropping and I'm like this is crazy, like what am I doing here?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so, you know, and I was, you're kind of like, you know I'm waking up. You know you have that routine. I'm tired, I'm eating my cereal with a fork, cause I have no idea. You know, I'm just trying to. I'm and, and I started, and I didn't know anybody at school, nobody. And I remember meeting you for the first time and um and actually this is probably you had a witty question this is actually at lunch when you started talking and I don't remember this, but you had a comment about a tuna fish sandwich I was eating, so I laughed and then I got to know you and Brad and then we started forming those bonds and connections early on.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And even so, like I remember you asking like hey, like Swanee, we want we're starting to plan our sophomore year. Yeah, and I was on a floor with like seven other guys and like half of them played football and we were in different dorms.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And, um, we, um, and I remember, like man, like man, I'm already, I'm already kind of gonna live with these guys, you know. But I knew the quality of person you and brad were and the guys you were with, um, and what turns out that I saw from here today it was me and one of our person that came back because everybody quit, everybody quit, wow, you know. And so, um, jumping ahead, going to my sophomore year, that was very hard for me and I was kind of I felt like I was, you know, your freshman year. You're kind of get a lay of the land, you want to help out the most best you can, but you're also trying to form relationships, um, you're trying to understand the playbook and everything's new, and and then then you want to start developing yourself in a football player. Well, my sophomore year I really felt like I went through the motions, like I was on a team, but I didn't feel like I was making and I think it was a choice, like I just wasn't, my head wasn't in there, you know.
Speaker 2:And um. So it was. You know, I I same thing. You know, sophomore year for me was the most challenging year because I was the. I was the last guy on the depth chart on the D line to travel, so I traveled to every game but I never played. Like maybe that we were in Monmouth, new Jersey, I think I may have got in like the last two minutes of the game and that was the first game of the season, and then maybe a handful of times the rest of that year and then in practice, when you're that guy, you don't get many reps right. It sucked. I mean, I'm the same as you. I just was going through the motions. I was, quite honestly, if it wouldn't have been for Brad and his, his determination and his motivation to improve, um, and his attitude towards everything I don't, his motivation to improve and his attitude towards everything I don't, I'm not sure I would have would have have finished out. And so sophomore year was challenging. But well, tell what position you were, what position did you play?
Speaker 2:defensive end the end. I was a D tackle, yeah, so then we get into our junior year, yeah so I remember.
Speaker 4:So I was starting to like, okay, I have a chance to compete here. And I remember in our inner squad scrimmage my shoulder popped out of place and went right back in and I didn't say anything. I stayed on the field because I'm like hey, I'm trying to compete here, junior year, this is a junior year. Yeah, okay. And then a couple plays later it just popped out and didn't go back in. I had to go and took a water pop, get it back in.
Speaker 4:So that season was basically me in a sling, and that was at that time. Then I'm like this, I couldn't stand it. I'm just like I'm sitting here, I'm not even contributing to anything, and it was. I remember you were playing, you're done with your season, and I'm like schmidt, let's go to the weight room, like I was. We're like squatting three times a week in december and I like, because I was, I was like I had made that switch of, like, hey, I, I want to do better.
Speaker 4:You know, I want to get better. I want to like, get 100%, put 100% into this. So, um, and you did, you, you worked, you worked out with me and we pushed each other. Yeah, I had a great offseason good, spring ball and then, um yeah, going. I took a red shirt because I was, I didn't play my junior year and then I had two more years of eligibility. So I'm'm looking back. I looked up to you and Brad and some of the other guys. I was like Sean, eddy and McAfee and these guys were playing and I was like I want to be a part of that and then we were living together very close, I mean like a brotherhood.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:And so that pushed me to like I was 100 invested watching film in between classes. Like you know, I was invested and had a very good uh year. That year we did well as a team. You know, the thing about ud is, like I said, the coaching was outstanding. All those coaches were like they. You look up to them and you could tell they were in. You had to win at the college level. But they're also developing men and get stewards of the community and they were developing these men that you know. The attrition rate too is like after your freshman year. The guys are leaving and you know it's um, the guys are staying there. You can tell they're invested and yeah and uh buying into the coaches and stuff yeah, and it's powerful.
Speaker 2:And that that's what made me think with listening to jocko this morning, you know, just took me back to those those years, those, you know, I mean we hated camp, right, I mean college football. Two a days was three days, you know, we, we started at, you know, practice I don't know nine o'clock. We'd get up, have breakfast practices from I don't know nine to 11. We'd come back, we'd eat lunch, shower, crash, right, bodies aching, I mean just hurting. Go back out to the afternoon practice in the heat of the day on AstroTurf not FieldTurf, which is concrete um two hour practice. Come back, eat dinner, shower up, go out for special teams which, whether we were on special teams or not, we were on special teams because we had to be at practice. And then we turn around and we go to film till 10 o'clock at night and and you do that for essentially two weeks straight, two to three weeks straight, and it's, I mean it was hell.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was very challenging. So when I hear like my son complain about how hot it is and going to practice, I'm thinking it does, that's part of it, but I think that's where you become a man Like, that's where you learn life sucks.
Speaker 4:And it's.
Speaker 2:You know, there's highs and there's lows. There's probably more lows than highs and by going through that, that really helped to show me and to shape me and I think you too that we can get through anything after going through the hell. That was that so talk about your, which would have been my senior year. Talk about that.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So let me just it's that commitment. So I mean just it's that commitment. So I mean you think about, like we were in a unique position, how often you realize it's more post-college when you're in your career, but you had 100-plus individuals, all from diverse backgrounds, all trying to strive for a common goal. I mean, when does this happen? You know, and that's something that, like, you're not going to like everybody on the team, but you're going to work with them and push them because that makes the team better. And that was an important lesson I think you know you learn through sports.
Speaker 1:You know, at any level.
Speaker 4:So it was very, you know, then, um, going into my last year, like it was very difficult, like when you guys left because I was so close but I had other strong relationships with the class underneath me that I was now a senior, you know right um, like marty mcnamara and alan sanders, you know, and we had a very good team.
Speaker 4:I mean it was. I think we went 10-1. That was the year that 9-11 happened, yeah, so we lost the game. We didn't go to Austin Peay and played, but, yeah, we had a great team that year and I was fortunate enough to be voted captain amongst my peers, you know, which is, you know, you play, you get awards and recognition and stuff. But that was my greatest honor to have that, because I've earned the respect of my, my peers, my the player, the guys I was playing with and my teammates and I know you wrote me a letter, a very heartfelt letter, and so that was very special.
Speaker 4:I remember Coach Kelly bringing me in and one of my best friends, Marty McNamara, played safety. He was a safety and corner. He got voted captain, you know he was like and Jermaine Bailey, and that's you know it's like the thing is. From that experience you know you might, just because of the ebbs and flows of life, you lose track of guys. You might not talk to them on a regular basis. You know you go from seeing them every day, living with them, hanging out. Now you're in real life, You're developing family, making families and stuff, and you're all over the country, and now you're. But what's special is you can just jump right back in. Oh yeah, the conversations and the brotherhood, even if you haven't seen each other in two or three years. Yeah, and that's something I think that I'm always grateful for and very fortunate to have gone through that experience.
Speaker 4:I mean, think about if, like, there was a small like. I remember, like my sophomore year, I was like, do I really want to do this? Like this is hard, you know. Yeah, and the two things that like cut me on the team was my, which is you guys like it was that bond we had shared, yeah, and I know my mom would never, ever want this to be a reason, but I also wanted to give her that senior moment Cause I I could tell I meant a lot for her you know what I mean and she was like, oh, I don't, you shouldn't have done that for that, you know that's. But it was a special moment, you know, and I was like you know, those are things that I want to make sure that happens.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's awesome, man, awesome awesome. Great memories, great times. That brotherhood, you're right, I mean, it's something. We had Marcus Colvin up here, I hadn't seen Marcus in.
Speaker 2:I don't know, probably 15 years, and Marcus and I weren't super close when we played, but we were teammates. And when you go through a struggle like that with people and you face all those different adversities together, it's amazing the bond that comes from that Cause you're right, you can pick up right where you left off. If you haven't seen anybody in 20 years, it's amazing. You know, just like you and I today we hadn't seen each other in quite a few years. Uh, I mean, we talk a lot but, um, you know that brotherhood that's not something that ever gets broken. I think that's special, um in a lot of sports, but especially in the sport of football, for sure. So, all right, so you get through college. Now life's changing, now it's going to get real right. So talk about that transition from college to the real world.
Speaker 4:So you know I, I got into teaching um, teaching phys ed, and started coaching football and started dating public schools for a couple of years and it kind of bounced around, lived in Columbus for a year and then got a job at Lebanon High School, which is north of Cincinnati, and yeah and there's all things were going well. You know, I felt like it was a good place, I was a good place. What happened kind of changed everything. Was my dad got diagnosed with cancer, colon cancer first, and I was living with you that summer I think when I first found out, maybe, but anyway. So he had gone through surgery, got the tumor removed and then went remission for a couple years but his health was deteriorating and over five, five, eight years or so.
Speaker 4:So I started to see like I always looked up to my dad, you know, like my dad he was. You know he was great with me and my brothers. Like I said, my brothers were engineers, so he would take the time to do the hobbies and share in their interests and I was the sports kid and he would work with me the best he could. You know, and you know I mean I saw my father every other weekend and maybe a couple of times on occasion during the week. Uh, cause he would. He would try to be involved, but he's also busy working. He was selling hospital equipment, you know. So he's on the road a lot and stuff. But I always looked up to him that's my dad, you know what I mean. It's like he's in the.
Speaker 4:So I started to see him just deteriorating. He's becoming a shell of his former self, and so basically we got news that there wasn't a whole lot anymore they could do for him. So I was probably 27, 28, somewhere around there, and the last couple weeks before he passed away he was at a hospital and there was a hospice connected to the hospital. So it was a back and forth of this is it he's going to pass away? There's one more thing we can do. Let's get him back in the hospital. We're constantly. It was like kind of a back and forth and it finally was like there's just nothing we can do. So and he, like I said, his health was deteriorating very rapidly the last couple years that this was going on. So basically we were in the hospice for two weeks and I got the call. I was teaching. I got the call on a Friday. My stepmom was like this, is it? So I ran out of school, went to the hospital and I saw him like it was. I saw the whole dying process Up until that point it was like you witness it.
Speaker 4:He's gasping for air, gasping for air like three or four or five times, and then he takes his final breath and his skin just turned gray and I'm like what just happened? And so, you know, tears are pouring down. I drive back to an empty apartment in Hyde Park in Cincinnati, you know, cincinnati, and I'm like what just happened? Like you know, I couldn't, I was like shocked almost, you know, and what transpired and I'm like what just happened? I couldn't, I was like shocked almost.
Speaker 4:And what transpired after that was a dark period and I've never had this like a feeling of depression. Really, I have dealt with. I had to bury like a high school friend and I've dealt with like people dying, but it was, you know, it was your dad. It was different. So the next couple years after this happened, so he died, passed away at 59. You know, three months prior to that I was a pallbearer at my grandfather's funeral. Now he lived a great life, but I was like that was kind of like, but he was a great man. Like you know, I love my grandfather.
Speaker 4:And then my dad died and then I was at this time I was in a long-term relationship and I kind of knew that we were headed our separate ways. But I could not face another loss. I was just paralyzed with decision. I couldn't move on. I was just spinning my wheels and it wasn't fair to her. You know what I mean. It was like she's trying to move on, she wants to. You know, maybe we could be together. But we just knew. But I couldn't just make the final twist like, hey, we gotta go our separate ways.
Speaker 4:So the thing is I I was dealing with emotions that I've never dealt with before. I didn't know how to handle them. I would put on a good face, like when I was around people they see us guys happy and stuff, but then I would go back. I'm just like in some pretty heavy I guess it was depression, you know and I would call you and lean on my friends and my family and and they they were. You guys are so amazing. But when you're in this spiral, there's this you don't see what other people see.
Speaker 4:So this I remember, like I was coaching football, you know, and I'm trying to do a good job, my head was a different place. We were playing Trotwood and I think the D coordinator was like hey, what did you see? I'm the D-line coach at the time and I'm just like a blank slate. There's just nothing. I mean, I'm just like, and I get off the field. I'm trying to hold back tears, it's just like it was a dark place. So I back two years like it's just like it's a dark place.
Speaker 4:So you know, I'm getting a lot of trying to people trying to help me. Um, the relationship at this time was done, it was over and I was just kind of like I'm by my uh, I I went to a doctor again this is not medical advice, okay. So he had put me on an antidepressant because I was like I'm gonna going to try anything, you know. And I seeked out, like, I guess, a counselor or therapist, okay, so I could walk to this counselor just trying to get help, just trying to get something. And we had three or four visits and it was going okay. I wasn't didn't feel like I was getting in any better place or not. But on the fifth visit I had an experience that kind of changed things around.
Speaker 4:So what had happened it was on a Saturday afternoon I get to this guy's. I'm sitting on the couch and we're talking. It's supposed to be an hour long. We're talking and about 20 minutes in I notice this guy's. Really he looks like he's intoxicated or he's under the influence, and I'm talking and he's starting to pass out. He's going in and out of consciousness and I'm like man and then he just like completely unconscious. So I'm kind of man, I'm like I'm just going to walk out, like this is crazy.
Speaker 4:But before I walked out I noticed he had a jar of jelly beans and a Coke and I don't know how I figured this out, but he was in diabetic shock. So I go over to him and I started giving him jelly beans and I'm like hey, doc, how we feeling. And I also noticed he had like an insulin pump. I called 911, and I'm on the phone with the 911 operator and I'm like say my name. And I'm like hey, I'm in this doctor's office, this is what's going on. And she's like what's your patient's name? Again, I'm like no, you don't understand. I'm like hey, I'm in this doctor's office, this is what's going on. She's like what's your patient's name?
Speaker 1:again, I'm like no, you don't understand, I'm the patient.
Speaker 4:The doctor's like complete flip, you know what I mean. And there's somebody else waiting. We're like an hour and a half in this. I'm not sure I didn't want to treat this person. I'm like hey, this doctor's not feeling well.
Speaker 2:I need you to direct the. We're going to need to reschedule, yeah.
Speaker 4:I played like secretary for. So he came to Anyway, and what had happened? From that moment? I was like man, I know I got to do some work, but that gave me. It was like a flip. I was like I'm going to get through this. This is not going to define me. Went home, threw the antidepressants away. I was done. I didn't call the doctor. The counselor reached back out to me and was kind of like just to check on me. I think he was kind of embarrassed. I was like, hey, I just think I'll be okay.
Speaker 4:That's when I started realizing that your brain is I was a gym rat, still am, I was a gym rat, still am but you train your muscles, you go to the gym, train your muscles, make them stronger, bigger. You can do that with your brain. And I started going down that path of understanding how you go about doing it. And it wasn't like every day was rainbows, butterflies I'm clicking my heels and all this it was. You know I might have one good day, next day might start out bad, turns good, or two good days, you know, but then the good days outweigh the bad and then you're having you're going to a You're just, yeah, you're stacking the wins Stacking the wins exactly.
Speaker 4:And so I built myself into a point where I'm like I am in a good spot, like I felt it inside that I was in a spot where I was happy. You know I had found that and no matter what happens, you know I will my my outlook on life had changed and a week later I met my wife you know we had set up and and um by a guy I coached with and I met Jamie. Um. The next week came into my life and and I knew she's always like when did?
Speaker 3:you know you love.
Speaker 4:I like I knew right away that I liked her and then, very shortly after that, I was like I love this girl, I'm going to spend the rest of my life with her, you know what I mean. So I mean you think about like times in your life where had you not gone through with stuff, or you know, I do think I had to go through that situation to become the person I, to become that person I wanted to become, you know, to attract the people in my life that I wanted to attract to my life. And God kind of did that, like he's like you got. You have to go through this hardship. It's not going to be easy, but you're going to get through it and so, um, so yeah, that was a very change, like life changing event.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, that's thanks for sharing that. That's powerful, I mean you you're making me a little emotional just thinking about that because I I, as you were talking, I vividly remember, uh, when we lived in town I was mowing the grass and I remember you calling me and whatever, and I knew all that you were going through with that and the challenges you were facing and, you know, did a lot of praying for you. But I vividly remember one phone call and I could tell you were, I mean you were at bottom. You know you were really struggling and it was a difficult time for you.
Speaker 2:But you know, and hearing you talk about this, you know, just brought back those memories and how I felt for you because I wanted to help but I knew there wasn't a whole lot I could do other than being that support and being those ears. And I think we, you know, we probably got together a couple of times and maybe had dinner or had a couple of beers or whatever and had good conversation. But you were, you know, I knew it was something that you had to figure out and but I didn't, I didn't, I didn't remember that, that part of that story. So, thanks for thanks for sharing that, man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean that's um and the thing about that's all started with the bonds we formed.
Speaker 2:Oh absolutely.
Speaker 4:I mean all you guys, Sean, Eddie, I mean I look, I lean on all you guys, yeah, and we have done that for the last 25 years that we've known each other right.
Speaker 2:I mean, anytime we have an issue, it's a or you know, our kids have done something great, you know, or we you compete in a half marathon, you know. We're always sending texts and things like that, and that's you know. That's that brotherhood, that bond that we formed, definitely. So, all right, so you meet Jamie.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, so talk about how that relationship grows and forms.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you know we had set, so it grew very quickly. I knew I wanted to marry her. I was kind of shuffling my feet because of that fear maybe of you know you think about. I knew what a successful marriage looked like because my step parents were great people and but I was feared that maybe I wasn't adequate enough, you know, or I would make mistakes. I think both my older brothers are in, have great families, they're married. They had the same kind of fear, you know. They kind of shuffled their feet, proposing or whatever. But obviously we got married and our marriage was.
Speaker 4:I think what was great about before we got married is we did marriage classes through our church. That kind of set the foundation to get us on the right page. I didn't know anything about that. I grew up Catholic but I wasn't practicing and so I didn't know this existed and I was kind of like, okay, I'm going to do it for her. But then it set us up for success because you form a bond with someone and you get into marriage and you start having kids. You know there's going to be challenges. So, um, but yeah, we got married and um have two great kids, uh, eight year old daughter, jolie, and a five-year-old son, brody Um, they want to make sure I got their names in there, Cause they were like you can make sure you talk about us, daddy the cutest kids in the world.
Speaker 2:They're at my mom and dad's house now swimming and the thing is I learned.
Speaker 4:So one of the things I learned going through that hard time was the practice of gratitude. I used to keep a gratitude journal and I would write it every day. It was like if I had a bad day it might be like I'm happy, I have clean clothes to wear or I have food on the table. You know what I mean. It's like something. Some days it's like I'm happy about this, this, this, you know, and so I still I don't have a. I don't keep a journal because I don't. It's in my head. I looked at my son. I put him down to sleep and I'm like I can't believe I'm blessed to have this child. He's like the perfect kid. I know he's not perfect, but he's sleeping. You're just so grateful. The other day I was driving somewhere my daughter's in the back seat and I parked and I just looked back and then I was kind of just looking at her for probably a minute and she's like what are you looking at, dad?
Speaker 2:what's going on here?
Speaker 4:This is kind of weird, but I'm just like, how did I have this beautiful daughter? You know, you're just, you're grateful. Like I'll look at my phone If I'm having a day. It's kind of just. You know, nothing exciting has happened. I look at my phone, I look at my wife, jamie, you know, and I'm like looking at pictures and I'm like how did I land this beautiful woman, like inside and out, who's like in it, for the rest of our lives together, like we created two beautiful kids? You know you have it's more like you see, you're, you're grateful for that, you're grateful for those things. And you, you look, you know you look at I don't know. Again, it's not like it's everything's perfect, but it's.
Speaker 2:You have that skill set and you when you went through all the experiences that you've went through in your life and the challenges that you face it, and the highs and the lows and all those things. I think, as we get older, as men, we you know there are certain things in our lives and it may just be that split second in the car where you're looking in the mirror and it hits you. You know how blessed that you are and how grateful you know that you are to have such a healthy daughter and a healthy son and an amazing wife, because not everybody gets to have that. So I think that's God's way of of showing you those tiny little moments when maybe you're feeling stressed or anxiety or work sucks or whatever's going on. You know those little glimpses of hey, just kind of remember what you got, you know, and how, how grateful you need to be. So, um, yeah, that's that's important in life. Um, okay, so you got this perfect family.
Speaker 2:You got this amazing wife you know it's, uh, very successful in college. You're teaching life's, life's good and um, at some point in time I want to get in. I want to discuss the 75 hard thing, because this is where we kind of reconnected a little bit, um and and quite honestly I'm not going to tell you, you saved my life, but I really felt like I was on a crash course to be like your therapist was, quite honestly, like I felt like I was having dreams of being diabetic. I don't know why, but I was not in a good spot. So talk about and I don't know if you remember that conversation that we had at Drew's football game, but you know, let's talk about that a little bit, let's go back to that. Talk about 75 hard and what kind of led you down that path.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I would. I mean I was getting comfortable in life. You know things were going okay. I that was comfortable. You know we talked about earlier conversation about that and so, um, so kind of during the middle of the whole COVID thing I had gotten together with my father-in-law, rick, my brother-in-law, dave, some of their friends, guys connected with and have a friendship with now and we're going to get a couple of beers. You know you got to sit outside on the on the deck, 30 degree weather, you can drink out there. You got to go inside, put your mask on, get your beer.
Speaker 4:Um, anyway. So my brother-in-law, dave's, he goes, he starts talking about Andy Frisilla and the 75 hard program. So again, I was, I was comfortable, so I immediately dismissed it. I was like who is this guy? Why 245-minute workouts? Why not 30-minute workouts? Why a gallon of water?
Speaker 4:I was trying to validate my own feelings of why I couldn't do this. So we had this conversation and, like anybody that wants to validate their feelings, they go to the internet. I had typed in 75 hard and I'm reading this article and I'm like and it's just a hit piece on this. And I'm like, yeah, this is exactly what, the way I'm feeling. And then I looked at what, who the article is from was from cosmopolitan, and so I'm like, okay, and then what? Then?
Speaker 4:The basically what happened was I tried to do? I learned more about it, started listening to Andy Frisilla. A lot of what he would say would resonate with me and I knew how to make a change. I just I I was a gym guy, I lifted weights. I have my home gym, I'm lifting. I actually thought I was healthy, but I wasn't. I was a gym guy, lifted weights. I have my home gym, I'm lifting. I actually thought I was healthy, but I wasn't. I didn't look the part Not that I do now, but I was not the best version of myself.
Speaker 4:So I started 75 hard attempts. I would attempt a couple of days, like multiple times. The furthest I got before I talked to you about it was like 33 days, day 34, I think we were going to our third birthday party. I was starting to think about the second workout and I'm like, and I'm around kids it's, you know, all day like screaming. I'm like I'm having a beard, like Jamie, I'm done, and then I would try again. And the biggest hang-up for me wasn't the workouts, the gown of water reading. It was the anticipation of having anxiety, of being at social events and someone saying, hey, swanee, why aren't you drinking a beer? That was the biggest hangup. I would ruminate this in my head and that would cause me a lot of angst. I'm like, how am I going to handle this situation? Well, I should be like I'm not drinking, just don't even give a, you know. But it was that anxiety of that situation. So my brother, dave, had gone through it successfully and I'm like man I just can't get past some of these barriers I'm having.
Speaker 4:So when I so when we went to Drew's football game so we were playing elder yeah, so it's a very traditional like private high school, catholic high school they got the west side, they're tailgating and they're very passionate about football I almost didn't go, and it wasn't because I was afraid you were going to and Vliet wasn't going say, or going to say stuff about why I wasn't drinking a beer. It was how I was going to handle that situation. So I'm like, okay, I have to go. How am I not going to go? So I pull up, and I pull up to Vliet's tailgate and Brad's wife, kelly, who's an awesome. I mean I've known her since college. She's an incredible woman. The Kelly, who's an awesome, I mean I've known her since college. She's an incredible woman. The first thing she does is hand me a beer. It's because she didn't know right. And I'm like, no thanks, kelly, but I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4:And then I saw Schmidt. So basically for the next two hours I saw Schmidt's wheels turn in his head. He's like what is? What's going on with Swanson? But I wasn't going to say anything to him. I wasn't going to like, just spill the beans. I was going to make him like kind of ask some questions and stuff, and so he finally started talking about it and I think I sent you the book, the original book, and so this was in the fall and that winter was like pretty cold, brutal winter. I'm getting these videos of Schmidt like he looks like he's in Antarctica on a Ernest Shackleton expedition, like he is snowing. He's telling me how much he loves, like loves me as a brother, how grateful. And I'm like I'm like Jamie, is this guy for real? Like I was like is he messing with me? You know, like this is crazy.
Speaker 1:Like I'm like I'm like Jamie, is this guy for real?
Speaker 4:I'm almost like is he messing with me, you know, like this is crazy, you know, and he's going through these workouts. He's doing awesome and he makes it to 75 days I think the first time he did it First time yeah. And I'm just like I have got to get this, I got to be able to do this, Like I mean, you're talking about multiple attempts, 20, 30 attempts. I did that over the years.
Speaker 2:So you did 75 hard, you just did it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was like 75 day ones, you know.
Speaker 4:I was like I'm just going to do day ones, and that is I had up to 75. But, um, and it was a running joke between me and my brother, brother-in-law, dave but um, so fast forward. We, my wife and I, go out to dinner on July 3rd, our wedding anniversary and uh, we had having to go to this fondue restaurant. She's gonna hate me for saying this but uh, and I just kind of like we both kind of looked around, we don't go to this restaurant at all. Um, and we were just kind of like we both kind of looked around, we don't go to this restaurant at all. And we were just kind of like I don't know you, just like we're just kind of maybe disgusted, not disgusted, but you're just kind of like we can do better.
Speaker 4:Like this is crazy, like you know, and and so we. The next, the July 4th, is when we start our first one, and we and we did it together. We came up with, like we had a game plan. I would do my outdoor workout first thing in the morning, come back, make breakfast. She's in the basement doing her workout. Afternoons we would switch outdoor-indoor and we had a plan Like we worked together and I think the first time she was getting frustrated because she's probably 30 days in, she thought she should see more of the physical changes.
Speaker 4:She's already very fit, but she should see more of the physical changes by day 30. I was like you're working out twice a day, you're eating better, it's going to happen. And then, literally a couple days later she got very fit, lean. I mean completely transformed, and think about it. She stopped right before the magic happened. So that was great because our kids now saw mom and dad taking making health their priority. So they would, I would, um, some days, like I get back from school, I put up a pull-up bar in my garage and I would do pull-ups and push-ups and stuff and just so they could be outside.
Speaker 4:Could we, you know, and they want to join in. You know, they were like joining that. Being active I I always thought I could control my mornings and because the afternoons or during the day other people are going to take your time, things happen. So I would have a basket of clothes like rain gear, shorts, winter gear, boots, whatever I needed. So there was no hesitation. When that alarm clock goes off at 4, 4.15, I'm out the door. I don't want to disturb anybody and I already have stuff laid out, and so you start thinking and planning and making your time more efficient.
Speaker 4:So we had a great experience. It wasn't always easy, obviously that we decided to do a second one. So we did two in a year and our second one started January 1st. What I tell other individuals that have questions? I'm like, even on your worst day with this program because Andy Frisilla says it's not a physical challenge, it's a mental strength challenge Even on your worst day, you're still doing more than you would have done before and most people are doing yeah, probably more than 95% of the people in the world.
Speaker 4:Exactly. You're reading, you're working out, you're drinking water, eating good. So we we had um, two weeks in we had to put our dog down and I remember Jamie calling me like she's crying, because that dog is literally a physical memory of your past 10 years, like we got our dog before our kids, before we got married and stuff. So I go home, go to Wendy's, get before we got married and stuff. Uh, so so I go home, you know, go to Wendy's, get her a double bacon cheeseburger for like a last meal. And I walked the dog in and I just I lost.
Speaker 4:I was like deep, heavy sobbing. I couldn't get words out. I was like I had no idea this was going to affect me that much. So put her down and my initial thought was I'm going to quit, I'm going to go back to house, I'm going to get a giant cheeseburger, drink a couple beers. That's how I was going to cope with that situation and I was like all right, you're better than this. See, the difference between the first time I did it and the second time was you kind of level up You're? I'm trying to say your perception of things or your consciousness, your awareness is greater. So I went down to the basement and worked out. I still had tears in my eyes, but that was better than the alternative, so yeah, that's amazing, man.
Speaker 2:I'm impressed that you remember that conversation too, because I remember at the game you walking up and I think I probably tried to give you a beer too and you're like you know, you kind of shied away.
Speaker 4:And I failed that attempt. Yeah, I was like a couple of days later, I failed it. Yeah, oh, you did.
Speaker 2:Cause you were in 75 hard then and I was yeah, so that's yeah, yeah, and that was.
Speaker 2:I mean, like I said, that was a life changing event for me and I just basically, like I said, I knew leading up to that moment that something had to change, like if I did not change something, like God was going to change me, like either my health was going to fail, something was spiraling out of control, and so that's why, you know, we were in the middle of harvest at the time, so I didn't start for like two weeks after that, but I spent those first two weeks kind of prepping, thinking, studying, reading here, you know plant, you got to plan all that stuff out. It's important, um, I mean, yes, you want to, you want to get started right away. You don't want to wait. Um, you're better off to to just jump in and do it.
Speaker 2:But having a little bit of a plan and that could be just the plan for the morning or, like on Sundays, prepping your meals right, getting everything ready to go, having all those extra sets of clothes, depending on what climate you're in I mean all those things are important to be successful, because I promise you, when you get to that time, to do that second workout after you went through the busyness of your, you know work day, kids, whatever boy. It's easy to let that doubt creep in and say you know what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, boy, it's easy to let that doubt creep in and say, you know what, yeah, this ain't worth it. So, man, I can't thank you enough for turning me onto that program. And I know there's many people I know Ben's done it, I know Rose at Works for Us has done it Lots of people in our small little community that have done 75 art, some of them multiple times. Uh, my wife Kim, my brother, jeff, um, you know, and it's, it is truly a life changing, uh, mental challenge. It is physical, but the mental is the biggest thing, and that and that's what I needed. So, um, grateful, grateful for that. All right, we're going to, we're going to try to wrap this thing up. We're getting getting close to an hour. Dude, you've been, you've been amazing. Um, if you could sit on a park bench and have a conversation with someone, living or deceased, who would it be and why?
Speaker 4:Well, I'd be my father.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I'm 100%. So I mean the, the you know father, yeah, 100. So I mean the you know he was um, he always looked for the good in people we would. We watched a lot of movies together, so black back when blockbusters were around, or you know, I'm like anxious to get home, or we were in a bunch of movies and he's like just chatting it up with this. You know, people around them around him, like we couldn't get out of stores because he's just talking to everybody. He'd always put a smile on people's faces and I would say, you know, like, and towards the end he wanted to become a teacher. So it's like he's 50. He's getting out of like his career to pursue teaching. He's going back to Xavier, getting an education degree, I mean, which had to have been hard, like most people are like talking about retiring and he's like wants to pursue this passion. So his perseverance was always like something. You know he wasn't perfect by any means. He got knocked down but he always got back up. You know, and I always try to have that. You know, internal dialogue, like. I think he's speaking to me at times, you know I, I did a, I did a half marathon.
Speaker 4:My older brother, mike. Uh, recently that I almost didn't do it took convinced my brother-in-law, dave, and made a comic I was gonna quit. I was like the training was hard, I got sick. My brother-in-law, dave, had made a comment because I was going to quit. The training was hard, I got sick. My brother-in-law Dave and my sister-in-law Kelly and Jamie were all sitting there and Dave was like, hey man, would you want your kids to do what you are doing right now? Something to that effect you preach You're not going to quit, right, you know what I mean. But would your kids, you know? What are they going to think Exactly?
Speaker 4:So I end up doing it and I think about, like, had I quit and not gone through, I wouldn't have had to experience my older brother, like dad saw, like my father was like probably so proud of this gone through. I wouldn't have had to experience my older brother Dad saw it. My father was probably so proud of this. In the same breath, the seeds that were planted too, amongst other people that were there, that said I'm signing up for half next time. You've inspired me, my kids. Were you talk about having a moment where God's in the room? My daughter like hugged me when I got home because she was so proud of her dad. My 5-year-old son was like hugging me. He was like I'm proud of you, dad. You know, like he's a 5-year-old and 8-year-old kid, but they had that, we had that moment. My wife was probably, you know, I mean, and so that was very encouraging and and um, so I know I kind of went off the track.
Speaker 2:No, you didn't. No, that that was. I mean, that was good, that's powerful man. Ben, you got anything to add? Any questions you can think of for jeff?
Speaker 3:not questions. I just I go back to think of that like dark time that you're in, you know, and you talked about getting out of that and you know, after experience with the counselor.
Speaker 3:And then all of a sudden you know you dig yourself out of that and you're like I'm going to be okay. And then every day making better. And then, because you did that, then it changed like Dan right, yeah, not changed him, but I mean that's what gave you a path you felt like in it. And then, because of that, the podcast, right. And then now you know, doing your trek the other day, what did you say? The same as I think, if I can inspire somebody else, and it all started.
Speaker 3:I mean, you inspired him and it's just a chain that should motivate everybody. You know, you never know who's watching you or who you're going to change by a decision that you make. Yeah, that's an excellent point.
Speaker 4:That's something as you get older, as I get all right realizing like you have no idea what action or what you say, what kind of effect that can have on other people that you interact with on a daily life. And even something as small as I was walking out of my son's eye doctor, there was a piece of trash on the ground and I picked it up and threw it away. It wasn't my trash, it's just such a small thing, but a lady saw that and it was. She picked up a piece of trash, it was something. So like mine. That's an example. Think about the hard times I went through, but then I was able to pass things on to you because you helped me out. That's an example where, like, just think about like the hard times I went through, but then I was able to pass things on to you or cause you helped me out, and that's an excellent point, yeah, and I think that's that's life, right.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's the importance of life, that's the importance of doing the right thing. That's important. That's important Sharing the story of you being vulnerable and telling all that stuff that you've went through throughout your life, because that is a common thing A lot of people go through, but not everybody gets through it. There's, there's somebody listening right now who has has been in those same dark spots or in those dark spots that you have been in, and they don't know how to get out, how to take that step, how to how to make that change. So, you know, your story is going to help someone in in a spot that you have been, to take that step, and I think it comes with embracing the small things, those small wins.
Speaker 2:And that's what 75 hard did for me is is, you know, not looking? Yes, I have goals, I have visions of the future, of where I want to be and what I want to do and, uh, all these things. But what can I control? I can control what I'm doing right now. I can control today. I'm not going to. You know, somebody asked me the other day were you ever going to eat ice cream? Again, I'm like I'm human, I'm not going to say I'm not but I'm not today, right, you know, and just stacking those little wins and recognizing there's going to be times when it's going to get difficult, but it's not going to stick around, you'll get through it. Just keep taking that step. So, jeff, I appreciate you, brother.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, I mean, you've always been an inspiration, someone I look up to, you know, and you and a lot of my close friends. So, um, you, you, you always say like how much it's changed you and I'm so excited. You know, I feel like I did a small thing, I introduced you, but when you come, when you tell me like how much it just grew you as a person, that inspires me to like help others too, you know so yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:I'll leave you with all with this quote A real friend is one who walks in when the rest of the world walks out. Jeff, that's you, my brother. I appreciate you, uh, sharing your story. I know you were a little anxious and had some anxiety about coming up here. That's all right man, you did fantastic. Someone is going to be affected in a positive way by your story. So, everybody, we continue to thank you for the support and the ears with the podcast Go out and be tempered.
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