BeTempered
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BeTempered
BeTempered Episode 73 - “No Peace, No Decision” – The Rule That Shaped Greg Jackson’s Ministry
The first thing Greg Jackson will tell you is simple: no peace, no decision. That quiet rule has guided him from a teen revival moment in Dayton to decades of faithful pastoring in Camden, Ohio—through false starts at the post office, a bi-vocational grind, and the messy, beautiful work of building a church that truly serves its town.
In this episode of BeTempered, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr sit down with Greg to explore what a small, faithful life looks like when it’s lived at full strength. He shares how working as a mail clerk taught him the people skills he’d need in ministry, why listening often beats advice, and how a simple three-by-five card can anchor a leader in the middle of chaos. Greg opens up about funeral ministry—nearly 500 services—and why end-of-life moments are some of the most honest pulpits for hope. You’ll also hear the story of the church’s leap to buy homes, build a new facility, and pay it off through grit and unity, all while resisting the pressure to perform like a “celebrity church.”
Family threads through every story. From Greg and Renee’s marriage, to consistent parenting, to the power of a dinner table ritual—this episode offers a grounded playbook for moms and dads. A hard season—when their 8-year-old broke both legs—became a lifelong lesson in empathy for families with special needs. And yes, we even talk Pistol Pete: the artistry, the late-life conversion, and his piercing line about money buying everything but happiness—and paying your fare to everywhere but heaven.
If you’re searching for authentic faith, small-town leadership, grief care that tells the truth, and practical ways to avoid burnout, this conversation will meet you where you are. Tune in for a clear gospel, steady wisdom, and stories that remind you to bloom where you’re planted.
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Thanks, Allie. Things like doors and windows go into making a house, but when it's your home, you expect more, like the great service and selection you'll get from Catrance Glass. Final replacement windows from Catrins come with a lifetime warranty, including accidental glass breakage replacement. Also ask for custom shower doors and many other products and services. Locally owned with local employees for nearly 30 years. Hey, do you want to catch every episode live as it's being recorded? Welcome on to Patreon.com slash Bee Tempered for exclusive footage behind the scenes photos and the live recording as it takes place. Go to patreon.com slash BTEMP. Welcome to the Bee Tempered Podcast, where we explore the art of finding balance in a chaotic world.
SPEAKER_02:Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, practical tips, and inspiring stories to help you navigate life's ups and downs with grace and resilience.
SPEAKER_03:We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Spar. Let's embark on a journey to live our best lives.
SPEAKER_02:This is Bee Tempered.
SPEAKER_03:What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Bee Tempered Podcast, episode number 73. Glad we got that right. That's right. Today I'm honored to welcome Dr. Greg Jackson. Brother Greg has faithfully served as senior pastor of the first Southern Baptist Church in Camden, Ohio since 1993. His journey began in Dayton, Ohio, where he came to faith in 1976. And not long after he married his high school sweetheart Renee. Together they've raised two wonderful children, both now school teachers, who are building strong families of their own. Brother Greg's calling to ministry came in 1991, and since then he has poured himself into preaching, pastoring, and mentoring. He holds both a master and doctor of ministry, along with an honorary doctor of divinity. And he's even authored a practical guide for pastors on conducting funerals. Beyond the pulpit, he also serves as chaplain for the Camden Police Department, offering spiritual guidance and support to his community in some of life's toughest moments. Family is at the heart of his life, but he also enjoys golf, crappie fishing, Ohio State football, and of course, basketball, especially inspired by the late Pistol Pete Merovich's powerful testimony. One of his favorite scriptures is Galatians 6, verse 14, reminding us to boast only in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. It's a privilege to have him with us today to share his story, his faith, and his wisdom. Brother Greg, welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. Yeah, we're glad to have you. Uh you you've been uh you've been on the list for a while. And uh, like we talked about here earlier this morning, I don't know your story. I've um been blessed to come to your your church a couple times. You know, my brother and his wife and family go there, and uh I've heard some some powerful testimonies and some powerful sermons. And so I'm excited to to learn more about you and and what motivates you and your passion to help others. So, how we always start is we like to go back to childhood. So tell us about what life was like for you growing up as a kid. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um, Dayton, Ohio, Northridge. Uh back when you could walk up North Dixie Drive without a thought of anything wrong happening. Um, I mean the leave it to beaver. That was my childhood. Um my dad worked in a factory. Um uh most of my most of my childhood on in second shift. Um so mom did the did the discipline at home. And um had one sister, Sheila, three years older. I graduated in 1980, she graduated in 77. As a matter of fact, she just retired a few years ago, 42 years as a nurse. Um, but um great support. Um, but uh I mean I had Dan, I had a a childhood that I pray every kid could have. Um I knew what love was unconditionally, but I didn't my parents never uh acted like I was any better. I mean, if I had a good ball game or a bad ball game, there was no change in acceptance or unconditional love. Um my parents are both from Tennessee. I have a little big bit of big orange in me. Uh I'm the the Georgia loss right now is hurt it hurting pretty bad. We were at a wedding uh Saturday night watching it on a on a phone, and then somebody got a picture of us after the guy missed a field goal. We're like, oh no. But uh man, I had a great grunt. Was raised in church. That's all I ever really knew. Um and my my mom got saved when they moved to Dayton from Tennessee in a church called Westwood, which ultimately became Far Hills Baptist, which was a real strong Southern Baptist church in Dayton. Uh Northridge had a church called Northridge Baptist Church. We went there for a while, and then when I was a junior high boy, we went to North Dayton Baptist Church. And that's where God really began to speak to my heart. I'd walked down a Nisle as a little boy and then was even baptized. But as a uh teenage, 14-year-old, I just wrestled with doubt constantly, thinking, did I really make a decision when I was nine or did I do it because somebody else did it? So in a revival on a Tuesday night, 1976, you mentioned, uh, a guy named T. D. Hall was preaching, and I was wrestling. I I I couldn't stand invitations because I was under conviction, but I made a decision that night, I'm going for it. And I sure hope I don't disappoint my pastor, and I don't want to disappoint mom and dad. They already think I'm a Christian. Invitation was given, I made the decision. Uh, that night I gave my life to Christ, and uh it really changed me. That was the point in my life that that I knew that I knew that Christ was my Lord and Savior. And um, that was a long time ago. But I'm telling you, as far as childhood, I had the one that everyone would dream of. Um my dad just turned 88. I still have both of my parents. I do not take that for granted. Um and and sometimes uh uh Sheila and I, my sister, we recognize this is our season. And I can assure you that we'll do everything we can to take care of our parents because they have taken care of us our whole lives. Um so Renee and I got uh dated in high school. Um she is cheerleader, but she's also a ball player, which that was one thing that attracted me to her. She was uh she was a great ball player, and then she became a beautiful ball player. And uh so um we kid about this. I I tell her that she stalked me in high school.
SPEAKER_03:And uh I doubt that.
SPEAKER_01:So we started dating, dating our junior year, and uh, you know, she played all the sports and was cheerleader, and and uh basketball was my thing.
SPEAKER_03:Was that the only sport that you played in high school?
SPEAKER_01:I played tennis. Okay. I I ran cross-country one year and I thought you gotta be crazy. But uh basketball was a sport, um, played tennis and uh uh just uh uh had some good success in high school. Um I was point guard, our our star was named Jimmy Pollard. He averaged 36 a game with no three-point lines, state uh led to state in scoring. Our final game in high school, we got beat by Dunbar in triple overtime at UD. He had 48. And Don DeVaux, the Tennessee coach, comes walking in the locker room. Uh he's he went full ride to Arizona State. But uh we that was the kind of success we had, and uh it was it was fun, it was a great ride.
SPEAKER_03:How was your your coach? Did you have any coaches along along the way, you know, middle school into high school that were a big influence on you?
SPEAKER_01:In junior high had been two of them, Sonny Zekley, uh, who was real active in Northridge track and cross country, but he was also involved in everything sports-wise. And then another coach was named Ken Hamill. And Ken Hamill, uh, I had the privilege several years ago to do his funeral. He'd given his life to Christ, he got married, he was single as a teacher, but he got married, and his wife, Jonna, was a born-again believer, and his life changed, man. So they they asked me to speak this funeral, and I talked about the life change. Everybody wanted to be him. Then our high school coach was Dick Allen. And uh he was a fine man, has been going through health issues himself, but uh those are all great memories. Those are all great memories. Um you mentioned Dixie. Uh Randy Edder and I are still friends.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, yeah, that was my high school coach, my sophomore. Let's see everybody, my sophomore and junior year was Coach Edder. The compliment I tell you about, yeah. E McGee gave a speech. He talked at the end of the one of the games and was like, uh, if I can just have kids that would just run your head through the wall, that was me. I wasn't I wasn't an athlete, I just worked hard.
SPEAKER_01:That's the kind of guy you want. Yeah. That's the kind of guy you want. Yeah. So um in school, um, didn't know really what I wanted to do, so I went to Sinclair and walked on, played ball the first year. Uh I remember that first practice, there were about 50 guys there, and most of them inner city great athletes. And I thought, holy cow, I'm in trouble. But they started dropping like flies. And then I realized that heart and determination and how bad you want it. And I remember the day I saw that final cut and I made it and uh and had a had a fun year. Um got a little disenfranchised with school after the season, uh, got a full-time job, and uh Renee and I got married at age 21, which which, if I were to counsel that right now, you know, holy cow, that's young. But uh and we just celebrated 42.
SPEAKER_03:Congratulations. Thank you. Your your faith through through the the college years, did it ever waver?
SPEAKER_01:No, we were we were faithful in church, and uh I remember our uh our first um uh our first maybe responsibility in church is it was junior high boys. And that was like the first class I ever taught. And uh gave gave me one one thing about um and I and I know you that's a good question. College years, did your faith waver? Because right there is it right there is a litmus test. And how many say goodbye to the church and and then all of a sudden maybe get married and have some kids and thinking I need to get them in a good environment or something. But uh we didn't we didn't walk away from it. Uh I mean we got married at 21, so we weren't out too long.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And um Renee came from a real small church, and really size is in the eye of the beholder, but North Dayton was a little more f uh formal. Renee came from like a free will Baptist, which is a little more Pentecostal. Okay, and I like that aspect of seeing the emotion. And um, so as a pastor, you know, I I think you can wed both. You don't have to be crazy, but I mean, do I want a stoic, uh unemotional? I don't want a pastor that way. So um so worked a few different jobs and then got on to post office. And as a matter of fact, I thought I was gonna be a letter carrier. Everything was setting up for it. We were young married. I thought the Lord's blessing, this is where we're gonna fit. And I get a call from the post office checking up that I'm not gonna be considered for a carrier job because I had had a moving violation within a couple years. And I remember that day, Dan, crying like a baby and calling Renee at work and saying it ain't gonna happen. I mean, I felt like I was putting all the eggs into the basket. This is God's plan for our life, and then it's not there. Well, little did I know. God didn't want me to be a carrier, he wanted me to be a clerk. And I got hired as a clerk at uh 11 years. Uh we'd been there 11 years, the last five in Northridge on days. Looking back, all he was doing was setting me up to deal with people. I'm gonna teach you how to deal with people because you're gonna pastor a church one day.
SPEAKER_03:And uh so because as a letter carrier, you'd have pretty much been on your own. You'd have been a good thing.
SPEAKER_01:And that's and that's the draw for a lot of people. Yeah, you know, just go do your job and go home. But man, uh uh, you know, handling that disgruntled customer is gonna teach you some skill you need. I'm not saying that church members are dis disgruntled customers, but I am saying that church members are people. Yeah, and so am I. Yep. But uh anyway, God was shaping us. So 11 years there, um uh 91, I felt a call to preach. We loved our church, uh, Ben. I I we didn't want to leave Vandalia. But I was called to preach and I was getting a lot of invitations, and I enjoyed that preaching on Sunday and then just going back to work on Monday. Um then all of a sudden, in 1993, out of the blue, I get a call from Camden, Ohio. And all I knew about Camden was 45311. And it was a guy named Clyde Spradling, and he said, We're trying to fill the pulpit, and we understand that you were recently called. The connection was uh a member of the Camden Church at that time was Charlie Hoover. Charlie Hoover had a son named Bill who attended First Baptist Vandalia. Bill was also my accounting teacher at Sinclair. And they said, Yeah, Greg Jackson surrendered to preach. That gave us uh uh somebody here knew us and and called called me Phil Pulpit. Well, Phil in the pulpit is just that. You're filling in. Not looking to pastor anything. I remember driving to Camden on a cold February morning, Sunday morning by myself. I came by myself, I came through Eaton, stopped at Speedway, and thought, where in the world am I going? Got to Camden, they're shoveling snow, boom, boom, boom. I preached that morning, and the pulpit committee was in Lexington or Louisville to hear a candidate. I thought, well, amen, they're during the process is going. Little did I know that the wives of the pulpit committee called their husbands and said, You need to get back here. We think the guy is here. Well, I wasn't looking at the pastor. A couple weeks later they call, we come back. Sunday morning, Sunday night. I brought the best package of the part of the package. I brought Renee and the kids. Preached Sunday morning, Sunday night. That became an interim with with the um with the clause. Nothing changes. I'll work and I'll continue to work, we'll continue to live in Dayton, but I'll preach and do the best I can until you get somebody. God began to move and and I began the process of transferring, possibly to the Camden Post Office. The closer we got, the more clear it became. We're either all in or we're not. So two years bivocational, we moved to Camden. I drove back to work daily. People thought we were crazy for that. What do you wait? You're moving 40 minutes away to drive back? Did it for two years and then went full time. Uh thought it would be hard to give up. I remember the day I walked away from it with peace, the Lord will provide. So here we are 32 years later.
SPEAKER_03:That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01:And Dan, 33 years ago, Camden, Ohio wasn't on the radar of my life. So that's that's really the story of the call here.
SPEAKER_03:We're do you do you hear God's voice?
SPEAKER_01:Audibly? I don't think I hear it audibly. I hear it internally. And I think I think one way God speaks to Greg Jackson is through peace uh in a decision of a yes or a no. Um sometimes I tell uh the church, no peace, no decision. You know, I if I'm wrestling with it, maybe God's continuing to try to teach me something. Now, does God speak to peace uh people audibly? I'm not gonna discount that. You know, Pete Meravich said he heard God audibly. And then Pete in his testimony said, I really don't care what you think, I can tell you that God spoke to me. And uh man, I praise the Lord he still does speak. And um we live in a busy world, don't we? So in the busyness of the world, sometimes we're doing all the talking. And uh just need to slow down, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:So Yeah, that's a good way to put it, is is when you feel that peace, that's how you know this is the right decision. So you make that decision, you move to Camden. How easy was it?
SPEAKER_01:Um A fellow was um at the church yesterday for the service, was one of the last guys that I saw when they drove back the U-Haul to Dayton. He helped move me out here. And uh and dad looked at the deacon, the Clyde Spradling, that was the first call to me, and said to him, Clyde, you're gonna have to take care of him. I remember my dad saying that. Dad and I painted the whole house. It was the parsonage at that time. We bought it eight years later. And my dad, we painted it and stayed all night in the house, and dad said he laid in bed and cried. Um and and now I say, Dad, I hope those were happy tears. But but he said they were just like tears of change. You know, everything's changing. Uh my mom was a church secretary at North Dayton for 31 years, and she saw the church eat up pastors. She was the last one I wanted to tell I felt called to ministry, or we felt like God was calling us to Camden. You're gonna take our two grandkids and you're moving out there to a small church that we're not even sure can support you. Well, let me tell you, 32 years later, God has supplied every every step of the way. Uh regardless of what I made, He He's He provided, He has provided every step of the way. So Renee was my secretary for 11 years. And I love that. I mean, that's kind of her skill set anyway. But I loved it because if I went somewhere, I'd take her with me. Well, when both kids got in college at the same time, we realized reality, how are we gonna pay for this? So she went to work full-time in medical office. And the and the deal was once Stacy got through, she she would quit. Well, she continues to work. And she goes, I thought part of the deal was me quitting. And and the joke is, I said, hun, you gotta keep bringing it in. You gotta keep bringing it in. So uh that that's kind of uh where we are. Along the way, the church allowed me to get my theological training. Um I started at Liberty, and then uh a couple of online things. Um one was called Bethany Bible College and Seminary in Dothan, Alabama, uh, independent, King James only. Um and at first I thought, you know, I that's not necessarily me, but it was very disciplined, and it's what I needed. So that's how we started, and then we did the doctorate thing on our own, and I've always had an affinity uh to minister in a time of grief, and that kind of has become a real ministry in in Preble County for me and in Camden, and um so why is that? I really don't maybe because I've done so many. I lie I log every funeral, and I just completed my 460th funeral. Wow, and and I know I've missed some, yeah, but uh it's just uh it's just such an opportunity to minister to people, churched or unchurched. Yeah, you know, everybody is worth uh the the blood of Jesus on the cross, doesn't matter who you are, and the church has gotten behind it, and and we have ministered to so many families that didn't have anybody or anything. And uh, you know, Jeff and Lindsay, I uh your your brother and sister-in-law, I love them. Uh it's just been I did their wedding, it's just been neat to see how God has blessed them with a family that they prayed for.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And Alan and Muri. I mean, you know, your family, Dan, has always been special to me. I love your mom and dad. And uh, I mean, I don't like when your teams beat my teams. And now, you know, Drews go to Brookville.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And uh Aiden and Nathan.
SPEAKER_03:Nate, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Nate, you know, that they'll see each other here down the next couple years. Oh, yeah. But but uh I think the funeral thing has been out of necessity. Uh and here's the reminder people die every day. And and life's greatest question, here's what we tell folks. We believe everybody's going somewhere when they die. Life's greatest question is where are you going? And um if a person doesn't know Christ, I'm gonna introduce you to him. And I can't make you become a Christian, but God loves you so much that he sent a provision for you to pay for something you could never pay for yourself. And um it's a gift. And if I found out you had cancer and it was the same kind of cancer that I have and I was healed of my cancer, I would run to you to give you the prescription. And folks, here's the here's the thing. People with cancer that are healed were still gonna die if the Lord tarries. But when you give your life to Christ, I like what Charles Stanley said. Your last breath on earth is your first breath in heaven. What did Charlie Kirk say? Death is just like a doorway to to meet Jesus. Man, alive. Praise the Lord for that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So all right, let me ask you a question because we we've interviewed quite a few pastors, priests, um, you know, people who have a lot of things thrown at them. You know, and and we we've get it by just doing the podcast, you know. It seems like by sharing our stories and other people's stories, you know, it opens the door for people to call and reach out and and want to share their story. And a lot of times it's very challenging to hear. And to be able to, in a lot of cases, it's just to listen, you know, to not really give your opinion or offer advice. It's just, you know, that person, for whatever reason, trusts you to tell for them to tell you their story. So as a as a pastor, you hear that daily. How do you process that as an individual and not carry that load that all those people dump on you?
SPEAKER_01:That's good. That's good. Um pastoring, preaching is the icing on the cake. That's the reward for being called. You get to preach and study and prepare. What you're talking about are the things that wear you out. And and some pastors, and I'm sure you've had them on here with you, really have the gift of counsel. They they they eat it up. When someone comes and lays that heavy uh burden and and just the need and there's no quick answer for it, uh that's that's the thing when they let they walk out my office door that I lean back in my chair and just like, Lord. You know, wow. I'm gonna go home and mow the yard. Gotta do something else. Uh, because otherwise the grief of everyone would weigh you down so to the point where you can't be effective to anybody. Um I do have the privilege though to look at every situation and know that there's a God bigger than the problem. And man, I've seen God put marriages back together that no one said would ever happen and messes back together. And uh you know, he's big enough, so you gotta just recognize that he's the one that can carry you to help you somehow help somebody else. You mentioned uh listening. That's the key. Sometimes people just want you to listen. The problem with pastoring is uh is when it's your own people, a lot of times what you say from the pulpit, they think it's directed at them. So sometimes maybe a couple that's struggling in marriage, they don't want me to even know about it. Because they feel like if something's said from the pulpit, I might be pointing at them when in essence the Holy Spirit's doing it. But uh yeah, it's it's a challenge. It is a challenge. Yeah. Um I I never go home at night, Dan, and lay my head down on bed thinking that everything's done. There's always somebody that thinks maybe you should have been somewhere, or there's something pressing you didn't get to. And um and that you that's what you have to learn to live with. And I'm trying to do that after all these years, you know. When I when you see me at a ball game, I hope I'm at the ball game.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And um so uh someone gave me good counsel one year that said, when you think about being overwhelmed with what you need to do, and this is good for any any form of leadership, get a three by five card and write down the five top things that need done today. And it gives you a goal, it gives you some sense of completing it, and then you just move on. Tomorrow's another day.
SPEAKER_03:That's that's valuable advice. That's very good. You you you know, I've I've learned that over the past really three years for me is just you know, breaking it down day by day. I've always been a list guy. And uh I learned that early on, right out of college, my first job. We were building houses, and uh the project manager that I was was underneath, that's what he said. Hey, he said, you know, you got a tablet here, make your list for each house, and let's go off and you check them off as you go. You got your you got your hot items that you know you got to get done. Those are the priorities you get done today.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So you make sure you get done. The other thing, the other items on the list, it's that's icing on the cake. And maybe some of those items become tomorrow's hot items that you got to get done. And when you really step back and you and you break things down day by day or hour by hour, whatever it is for that day, and you just focus on that day, and you're present at the ball game, and you're present at church, and you're present sitting here with us right now. You're not thinking about all those other things. That's where you I think you you gain so much more in life because if not, you will get overwhelmed. You will get burnt out. You know, you talk about um go home and mow the grass. You know, for me, I go for a walk. You know, I go for a walk and I I call it a gratitude walk. And I just I just try to be in the moment while I'm walking, and I'm grateful for all the things that happened that day, maybe what's to come. Uh, maybe somebody shared something with me that was was heavy. I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful that person had the trust in me to share that with me. Uh to look to kind of flip it. It's not a burden, it's a blessing. Yeah, amen. So let's talk about celebrity pastors. You see a lot of these guys online. Uh, I'm not gonna use names. There's there's they're all out there. I've got a friend in Dallas, Texas, and I I asked Pastor Justin this last week as well. He and his family have been looking for a church down in Dallas. And he said they can't seem to find one because everywhere they go, they feel like that church is trying to sell them their church. How do you avoid that in your situation as a pastor to where you don't fall into that trap that some of these churches do? And or at least like my friend and his family, that's how they feel. So how do you avoid that as a pastor?
SPEAKER_01:Let me see here, Dan. Dallas, Camden, they're about the same size, I think. Number one, just because a church is huge doesn't make it um um a less gospel preaching church. God God gives different guys to Different platforms, right? For me, I I didn't know that I was supposed to ever look for something bigger or better. I've got a blog, I do I I'm not faithful at it, but there's a blog that I have and I changed the name recently to Bloom Where You're Planted. And that came from uh a guy named H.B. London, who was James Dobson's cousin, and at Focus on the Family, he was he was a Nazarene pastor, and he was kind of a pastor to pastors. He wrote a book called Heart of Great Pastor, one one chapter, Bloom Where You're Planted. And I thought, you know, that's our story in Camden. I didn't know you're supposed to aspire for bigger and better. One way that you guard against feeling like you're somebody, the people of the first Southern Baptist Church in Camden keep me humble. They keep me humble.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Meaning, what do you mean? Well, for instance, I still preach in a suit and tie. I don't apologize for that. That's just who I am. For the guy that doesn't, amen, he's gonna be who he is. But if I were to change now, the church would say, What's going on with Brother Greg? He's having a midlife crisis. He's trying to be young. I realize I'm never gonna be young again. So I've got to surround myself with younger guys. And uh people keep you humble. People keep you humble. Um in 2004, we we prayed about relocating because we knew uh we were in two services, the cr the church was packed, uh facilities just were outdated for that size. So we prayed about relocating. God shut doors and opened them right in Camden. What do you mean? We're gonna build in Camden. Well, we don't have the footprint, we're gonna buy houses. We bought seven houses, took them down. I can assure you, in a small town that does not make you popular. So we've got to show the town the value of a gospel-centered ministry church. Uh build a million and a half dollar building. Uh, it was a miracle in itself. We thought we were gonna have to borrow about 850,000, borrowed six, six hundred, paid it off in 11 or 12 years. Um, I mean, God just continually just did it. I had never built a birdhouse. But but we had guys in our church that knew about financing and the whole nine yards, and had a guy named Gary Super that kind of oversaw the whole thing for us and uh took all that pressure off me. Uh they gave me a hard hat with pastor on it, and I said, Why'd you do that? And they said, Because that way when you're on site, the guys working on it know you know absolutely nothing about the building. Uh but that investment there, Dan, was we're gonna give it to Camden. If if God it continues to want us to get bigger, we're gonna be involved in church planning. And we always are a partner with several churches outside of Camden or whatever he wants to do. So believe me, the people keep me humble. The the the past, you know, I told some folks I'm gonna be on a podcast, and of course they're like, woo, woo. And uh watching watching our live stream keeps me humble. I'm thinking, how can you listen to that every week? But we do, we got people that do it. I think the Holy Spirit puts blinders on people's eyes and ears, and they don't see the bad stuff, and they hear what the word says.
SPEAKER_03:So and and you are your biggest critic, right?
SPEAKER_01:Um I I probably am. I probably am. Yeah, you know that it in in pastoring, if you're gonna take all the good jobs, you better be able to take some criticism. And uh at first, like somebody would leave the church, I took it personally. I mean, personally. And then the older I've gotten, I mean, sometimes God calls people different places. And you don't always get to keep the best people. So you can outgrow that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, that's awesome. So talk a little bit about your family. You kind of you mentioned uh you mentioned them briefly, but talk about your your kids and what life was like for you when when your kids were born and all those good things.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, yeah. We have two, of course, Drew, Andrew Jackson. Uh it's not funny until you're in the doctor's office. Uh so Drew has just turned 40. Uh he's been at Northridge teaching uh 15, 17 years or something like that. Uh he married Ashley. Uh Ashley uh came from First Baptist Vandalia. Her family, her papa was the pastor there, and uh her dad was in evangelism, so ministry family. Her brother Stephen is the pastor of First Baptist New Lebanon, and that's where they attend. Drew's a deacon there, and they have two kids. Aidan just is a sophomore, and uh Eli is an eighth grader. So all of a sudden, I'm a Brookville Blue Devil fan. Uh I it's hard for me to fathom that, but I am. And I'm grateful that that the Register Herald in Prewa County covers Brookville.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that's a good thing, too. Um so Ashley's a stay-at-home mom and and Drew's teacher, and he's also the assistant varsity basketball coach. Benji Hughes, the varsity coach, is his longtime high school friend.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So that's how that connected. Stacy is a second grade teacher in Camden, and her husband, Kyle, is a bivocational pastor at Harrison Street Baptist Church in New Madison, and he's a banker, and he he works from home like an auditor. They have two boys, and Kobe's in fifth grade, and Jordy's in three, grade three. So we've got boys everywhere. We try to juggle where we're supposed to be. We we try to split the time, and um so Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's awesome, yeah. And I see you a lot at the at the Brookville Eden games.
SPEAKER_01:We're not doing that, we're not doing flag this year, though.
SPEAKER_03:I saw that, yeah. Yeah. So that's good. All right, Pete Meravich. Talk about Pete. As I told you here earlier this morning, as I was I was looking up your bio and and reading some things, I noticed on the website, on Church's website, that you had uh a YouTube video of of Pistol Pete and uh and his talk with uh with the Billy Graham group. Talk about what Pistol Pete meant to you. I mean, obviously very powerful because it's part on part of your bio.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_03:So talk about that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I put that on there to captivate sports-minded folks. Um and um so when I was a when I was in school, uh Pistol Pete this uh his LSU years, I was almost too young to remember. But I was uh But in 70, uh player of the year and all that, that I was nine at that time, and and I'm really getting into basketball at that point. Okay. And um the Hawks drafting, and and all of a sudden I'm just I'm I'm fascinated with pistol Pete. You know, this Harlem Globetrotter who's white, uh ahead of his time. Uh so for your listeners, just in case they're a little bit confused, Pete Merevitz is the all-time leading scorer of men's NCAA basketball. Okay, you ready? No three-point line, and freshmen weren't eligible to play. So when you compare him and Caitlin Clark, there has to be an asterisk by her name. Four years, three-point line. And I applaud her for everything. I saw a picture, I I have it on the phone, I think, uh, of an old pick picture of pistol peat at LSU, and it's cut in half. Caitlin Clark on the right side. Have you ever seen it? He's passing her the crown. Oh, wow. It's pretty neat. It's pretty cool. It is, it is cool. So I had a friend named Scott Gobar who got the Dayton Journal Herald. That was a morning delivery paper. Dayton Daily was afternoon. He would come to school with the cutout clippings from the night before Pistol Pete has 35 or whatever. I mean, every day. And I just collected and collected and collected. Uh when Drew got a little bigger enough to appreciate basketball, I started digging back for some cards that I knew I had. And uh that became little a little hobby. So I have 80 Pete Merovich cards. And um, yeah, it's it's funny. Yeah. Uh yeah, one of the boys will get those one day, uh, the one that appreciates it the most. Uh but uh I love pistol. Well, five he died at the age of 40. Had made the statement in his life, I don't want to live to be 40 and die. Like there's gotta be more of life. Five years before he passed is when God changed his life. And um, and it was probably in the testimony he heard. He said he had tried everything. He didn't go anywhere without thousands of dollars cash in his pockets in case he wanted to jump on a plane and go to the Far East or somewhere. And uh said he got to the point where he realized that money would buy him everything but happiness and pay his fare to everywhere but heaven. I mean, if I were to have a tattoo, that might be it, you know? And uh five years before he died, he gave his life to Christ, and then God began to use him radically. And in some of the books written about him, they said you couldn't be with him for five minutes, and he would ask you about your faith or share a story. And then tragically, uh uh one morning he plays pickup basketball, getting ready to do something similar to what you're doing right here. James Dobson, focus on the family, and made the statement, man, I feel good, and hit the floor. They rolled him over, his eyes rolled back in his head, he died right there. And I believe that maybe Pete Merovich's death, maybe, maybe in many ways like Charlie Kirk's, is gonna reach thousands and thousands of people that he couldn't personally or in his lifetime, but yet God continues to carry the story. So I am a big Pete Merovich fan. If you see me at a game and I have a Pete Merovich shirt on of some sort, I want you to acknowledge it, Dan. Okay, yeah, I will. I want you to go. And uh, but uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, you mentioned that about Charlie Kirk, and we talked to talked about him on the podcast last week. And Ben, you made a comment uh before we got rolling here about, you know, I'd said the saddest part for me in that whole thing was just the the vial and the negative comments and the hatred that you know I would see on social media. And um, but what what what'd you say this morning?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I was saying that um a lot of people were sending me stuff and and Lisa's stuff and she showed me that uh a lot of the comments now after yesterday, Sunday, you know, the first Sunday after it happened, and everybody's like, you know, I was an atheist, but I went to church and heard them, you know, for the first time ever. And some people, you know, and they're like, I enjoyed it. And I can't, you know, you hear all the stuff about Christianity about how it's like hatred and stuff like that. And then these people are like, no, like it was all about hope. It was about you know acceptance and stuff like that. And it's just I feel like it renewed. And uh Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's pretty powerful. And and it's gonna be interesting to see what good comes from it, you know, through all the tragedy and the and the heartache. So all right. Last two questions. Okay. When times are tough, and I know you've had some tough times. You're down in the dumps. Maybe the mower's broke, you can't get on the mower because you know that's your that's your um your serenity uh or whatever it might be from the day. Is there a Bible verse? Is there a quote? Is there something that you lean on that gets you through those tough times?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'll give you I'll give you a quote first and then a verse. Um, the quote came from a mentor of mine, Joe Baker, and today's Monday, right? You ready for this? Don't evaluate ministry on Monday morning or in the month of August. What he was saying was you can have a great day on Sunday and you're on the top of the world on Monday, or the last thing said to you on the way out Sunday just took the air out of everything that God did. Don't evaluate your call on emotion. In August, nobody comes to church. They're trying to get that last week of vacation before school, boom, boom, boom. Makes sense. Good word. Verse wise, Joshua 1.9. Be strong, good courage, don't be afraid nor dismayed. The Lord thy God is with you wherever you go. That's the same promise he made to Moses. God's faithful. He'll be with you, he'll take care of you, trust him. So that's that's a verse.
SPEAKER_03:That's awesome. Last question. If you could sit on a park bench and have a conversation with someone living or deceased, who would it be and why?
SPEAKER_01:Okay, it's good. If if you're looking Bible, other other than the Lord Jesus Christ. Right. It would in scripture it'd be Paul. Because man, I I look at Paul and and have preached the the letter so much. You talk about a celebrity pastor, he wasn't one. He was beat up and stoned and left for dead and imprisoned and um shipwrecked. As a matter of fact, when they were shipwrecked on Malta, they get there and they build a fire, the natives do, and Paul gets bit by a snake and they think he's a god, and Paul's like, wait a minute. And he shakes that snake off. I'm thinking, Paul knows what it's like to get bit and keep on going. And just because you get bit don't mean you have to die. Right? Any kind of leadership, you're gonna you're gonna get criticized or something, something's gonna go wrong, or uh, you know, or even maybe in our actions we do the wrong things. Dan, I look back over my life and somebody would say, Would you do some things? Yeah, I would do some things differently, especially with staff. You know, we went from pastor doing everything to a staff. And I I did I had handled every situation. I mean, if I could go back and change some things, you know, miscommunication, uh stuff like that, I would. Um, but uh so scripturally I think it'll be Paul. There's a there's a a gospel song that that says, I'd like to meet the preacher who prayed for the preacher who prayed for me down on my knees. Well, in many ways, I thank the Lord for the preacher or the or the man who led my papa Jackson to Christ. Because of that, my dad was put in a position to hear about Jesus and give his life to him. Because of that, my mom gave her life to Christ, married in Dayton, and because of that, they raised us in church. Now, don't get me wrong, church doesn't save anybody, but it put me in a position to hear the gospel. So maybe it's that guy, that pastor, that preacher, who introduced my papa to Christ. Maybe I'll meet him.
SPEAKER_03:That's pretty awesome. Pretty awesome, Ben. You got anything?
SPEAKER_02:That's powerful. The uh so knowing Drew, I went on mission trip with Drew. Uh I have really good memories with Drew. Knowing the type man he is and the type father he is, I'm just wondering like, do you have any advice for moms, dads out there just in a world full of chaos and so much evil? What's what's one advice you give parents nowadays?
SPEAKER_01:Number one, you gotta be consistent. You know, uh as long as your kids live in your house, you're in charge. Don't quit blaming everybody else. Um so you gotta be consistent. I uh we certainly aren't perfect parents. Um and and none of us were raised by perfect parents. But uh Renee lost her dad in 1984. We'd been married one year, uh 58 years old. Um her mom lived to be 94 and uh never remarried, never did, but you know, Renee saw some real she she came from a big family. So Renee, you talk about a blessing. Renee knows what appreciation is. She was the youngest of six. You know, I just had one sister. So we came from different backgrounds, and I think maybe that complimenting each other, uh, humility, any good thing in our kids, Ben, is Renee. Um it's Renee. Can I tell you just a little brief thing that happened? You mentioned Drew. Yeah, and this was a life changer for us. Um in uh 1984, we'd been in Camden for a year. Uh it was Martin Luther King Day, kids are out of school. We had gotten into snow skiing, had taken a few trips with other couples. I mean, we really were getting to the point where do we buy skis? That kind of thing. Martin Luther King Day, 1984, it snowed like crazy. We said, let's take Drew to perfect north and teach him how to ski. Just him. So we fought our way down there in the weather, got down there, had a couple hours of fun, and then in front of us, he went down and let out a scream that you knew something was wrong. We got down to him, saw one of his legs going the wrong way, recognized he had broken his leg. The ski guys get up to help us, the medics, and one guy looks at me and says, I think the other leg's broken too. Long story short, both legs. Took him to a small hospital in Lawrenceburg. I called my sister, who was a nurse. She thought I was joking until I started crying. They told us you need to get him to an orthopedic in Dayton tomorrow. So we they wrapped him up. Uh, we finally got home. I remember pulling into our lane, Dan. The snow was drifting. I got stuck, grabbed a shovel, the headlights are hitting that snow. I'm crying, I'm slinging snow. Um, we finally get home. Next day we go to Dayton, and the doctor says, I have three boys of my own. We snow ski. If it were my son, and I go, that's what I want to hear, what would you do? He goes, I wouldn't do surgery. I said, Okay. They were called boot top fractures. Uh when he fell, neither ski broke loose. Uh beginner, beginning ski, or you should almost walk out of your skis, but they didn't break loose. Boot top fractures. Nine weeks and cast up to his thighs, eight years old. It was not that hard to manage because you can you can lift up an eight-year-old boy and put him where you need to put him and boom, boom, boom. And Shawnee's school was so good that the teacher came daily and he he hardly missed any school at all. I had to take a class at liberty. Uh after nine weeks, he got out of cast and rehabilitated, you know, and moved on. I mean, we praised the Lord. I had to take a class at Liberty, and this is where the lesson really came. And uh we're sitting there, and I thought it was going to be a bunch of older guys like us in a classroom. It's called a J term. It was like two guys my age, and the rest were students trying to get a quick class. So I met this guy, and uh we we said, well, let's go out to dinner tonight. So we went out to eat, and I start telling him that story about Drew. And then he takes a picture from his billful and shows me his son who has cerebral palsy. Man, I just broke in front of him in apology. Here I am talking about nine weeks in cast of such an inconvenience, and and you have a lifetime of meeting the needs of your special little boy. And it was at that point God broke Renee and I's heart for people who have parents who have handicapped kids. And here's what we found out in nine quick weeks. All people want to be treated as normal. Treat people normal. And so I'm I'm I try to make efforts in public when I see families because you're thinking of the sacrifice they've made to go out to eat, knowing that maybe the child's not going to behave or if it's mental, you know, something. I I I like to brag on people's families. Encourage a parent that, hey, you're doing a good job. You know, you're you're you're special because everybody can't do what you do. So it's just a simple thing in Drew's eight-year. Um, and Drew's been a hoot in ministry. He's got a sense of humor, he's an outdoorsman. Um we we like to fish. Some of those um mowing excursions, you know, I I could say, or go home and fish.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And um and we we have access to some places that uh other preachers don't, and they come out there and say, Man, alive, don't give this up, that kind of thing. Um But uh Drew has said things like this out loud as a little boy. I hate to even say this. Uh Dad says weddings are okay, but uh big books are in funerals. He said that out loud. Where do you go from that statement? Um so he's always been kind of funny. Yeah, you know, like once I got a new suit and and somebody commented on it and he goes, That suit cost us 200 bucks. Um so he would say whatever you do. Where Stacy was uh easy to raise. Yeah, you know. But uh so parenting, I ain't got the answers been. Oh yeah. Uh our our house has been a house of laughter. I do feel like home is the place you want you you should want to go. Don't you guys at the end of the day? I can't wait to get home. And uh I realize it's not like that everywhere. No.
SPEAKER_03:No, it's not. You know, you hearing you say that, it we try to have dinner together as a family every night. It it doesn't always work with all with everything that's going on, but but really it's it's my wife, Kim. You know, she she even yesterday after church, we've got a flag football game to get to, and and uh, you know, everything's busy, everybody's running everywhere. And but those are the most incredible times as a parent. You know, I'm I'm blessed to have five healthy children, an amazing wife. You know, we sit around our our kitchen table and and we eat, and it's some of the the funniest, most uh, you know, just off-the-wall conversations. And I didn't realize that being, you know, when I was younger, but as I get older, and then as my oldest daughter's, you know, in her second year of college, and and you know, the family dynamics start to change, you don't realize how important that is as a family to have that time where we're all together and we're just having fun. And that may mean somebody's getting picked on a little more than somebody else, but everybody's giving it right back. And it's just, you know, as a as a parent, I'll often catch myself just kind of sitting back and smiling. Amen. And uh unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people take the time to do that. You know, everybody's so busy and they get caught up in sports and school and whatever else is going on that they think are more important than that family unit. And I'm sure that you see it. I I know that you see it. You see families that run here, there, and everywhere. And then by the time it's all done, they don't have that relationship as a husband and wife anymore. Because that's that's that was their life.
SPEAKER_01:Right. The empty nest is a tester uh for exactly what you're saying. Uh life has revolved around schedules and kids, and boom, boom, boom. And then then a couple looks at themselves and says, We don't even know each other. So a group of first graders were asked if they could have anything, what what would they want? And it was for their dad to love their mom. Think about that. Security. Security.
SPEAKER_03:That would be heartbreaking to hear that as a father. Heartbreaking. I can't imagine that. Yeah. But that's where we're at in a in a lot of these households. So any of you, any of you families out there, you parents, uh, and and you know who you are. You know, I mean, we're all running everywhere, but just take the time, you know, for each other, you know, as husband and wife, but also as a family unit to come together. Eating out at dinner at a restaurant, yeah, it's okay. But it's not like sitting at home. Yeah, you know, so that's important. Um, how can people find you, uh, give you website information? How can they get a hold of you? How can I hear you preach? All those good things.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, First Southern Baptist Camden, FSB Camden, the corner of hope. We're right at the corner of 127 and 725. I like to tell people we're just west of the Dayton Mall, about 25 miles. Uh right on the corner. You can't miss us. We have two worship services Sunday morning, 8:30 and 1045, Sunday school in the middle. Wednesday night, 633. Why 633? CE first a kingdom of God and his righteousness, Matthews. And um, we have vibrant youth ministry, children's ministry, so we can plug in that way. Church website is Camden Corner of Hope.com. Easy. And uh we stream the 1045 service during uh time change, first of November. I also do uh uh a recording of the Wednesday service. I do it early on Wednesday for those that won't get out at night. But um that's it. We'd love to hear from you. Uh every now and then, folks, uh you can contact us on the websites. Every now and then we get stuff. And um two people recently said they'd like to talk about being baptized, and they came in, gave their life to Christ. And you never know. You never know who's listening, right? That's right. A lot of times on uh when I say good morning to the church on the on the stream service, I'll say, maybe you're watching today from Japan. I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Hey, I'm honored you even ask.
SPEAKER_03:No, I I I appreciate you taking the time to come here on Monday. I know you're a busy man. You got a you got a lot of irons in the fire, and and um so I appreciate you sharing your story, your faith. Uh, it's powerful.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you guys are pros. I told you, I've watched you enough to know you know what you're doing. So keep keep doing it.
SPEAKER_03:Uh we appreciate it. Everybody, please uh continue to like and share and do all those things and and uh we appreciate the love and support as always. And go out and be tempered.
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