BeTempered
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BeTempered
BeTempered Episode 74 - Love, Loss, and the Power of a Kept Promise with Shirley Thacker
The wind through pine branches can sound like a lullaby, or the whisper of survival. That’s where Shirley Thacker loved to sit with her husband, Rich—a farm kid turned teacher, veteran, and fighter—dreaming about the book she would someday write. In this powerful episode of BeTempered, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr sit down with Shirley to trace the hard and luminous arc of her life: a small Indiana farm in the 50s and 60s, a ten-year-old’s stolen safety and the silence that followed, the middle-school note that tried to erase her, and the moment on the edge when she felt a love stronger than despair pull her back.
We follow Shirley into young love forged by letters during Rich’s Air Force years, a marriage built with grit and not much money, and a cancer diagnosis that rearranged everything. With Dr. Lawrence Einhorn’s groundbreaking protocol, Rich endured brutal chemo, a miraculous brain surgery, and the long tail of complications—retina damage, PTSD, Parkinsonian symptoms. Alongside the fear and fatigue, there were precise graces: a surgeon who showed up on a Saturday, a tumor lifted out in forty-five minutes, a renowned doctor acknowledging a higher power, and a gas-station prayer met with unexpected peace. When an untreatable brainstem tumor closed the final chapter, hospice brought them home. In the quiet, Rich asked for three things: mow under my red Chevy, fly a flag on my grave, and be happy. She promised.
Shirley kept that promise by writing. Her words became a way to translate grief into craft and service. She wrote poetry and children’s stories, taught kids to compress truth into six words, and donated every dollar to cancer research, local teachers, veterans, and a memorial scholarship. She told her daughters the hard story she’d once hidden, then told her parents, and now tells us—so others don’t have to carry it alone.
We talk practicals too: why boys and men must do self-exams, how to start hard talks with kids, how to spot signals of silent pain, and how to build daily habits that make joy easier to find.
If you need a companion for a long night, this conversation sits beside you without flinching. It’s about breaking secrecy, holding on through treatment, trusting help, and noticing small mercies—the pine wind, a friend at lunch, a nurse’s extra hour, a promise kept.
Listen now at betempered.com
or support the show at patreon.com/betempered
You can explore Shirley’s books and poetry here: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08PXVH3MK?ccs_id=4bd01bf5-9ad4-41ad-bf88-2e2edf28d35e
Thanks, Allie. Things like doors and windows go into making a house, but when it's your home, you expect more, like the great service and selection you'll get from Catron's Glass. Final replacement windows from Catrins come with a lifetime warranty, including accidental glass breakage replacement. Also ask for custom shower doors and many other products and services. The 962-1636, locally owned with local employees for nearly 30 years. Hey, do you want to catch every episode live? As it's being recorded, welcome on to Patreon.com slash BeeTempered for exclusive footage behind the scenes, photos, and the live recording as it takes place. Patreon.com slash BTemper. Welcome to the Bee Tempered Podcast, where we explore the art of finding balance in a chaotic world.
SPEAKER_03:Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, practical tips, and inspiring stories to help you navigate life's ups and downs with grace and resilience.
SPEAKER_04:We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Sparr. Let's embark on a journey to live our best lives.
SPEAKER_03:This is Bee Tempered.
SPEAKER_04:What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Bee Tempered Podcast, episode number 74. 74, Ben, we're back into summer temperatures right now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. This is the time you get sick, right? When it gets hot and it gets cold and hot and cold. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I'm ready for the what it was last week or the week before.
SPEAKER_03:It was nice and cool, and I don't mind the heat, but and I certainly don't want the cold, but I made the comment earlier that I can't, you know, I'll I miss that temperature, but then all of a sudden it's like before we know it, we'll be bundled up in jackets and kids will be missing school because it's the air degrees out.
SPEAKER_04:Hey, some stories are born from hard work, heartbreak, and healing. Shirley Thackers is all three. Born and raised on her family's farm in Indiana, Shirley's life has been full of challenges, many of which she kept hidden for years. But through perseverance and by the grace of God, she discovered the power of vulnerability. That discovery has allowed her to share her story with others, showing how honesty and openness can be a bridge to healing and connection. An avid reader, writer, and teacher, Shirley has turned her life experiences into books and stories that inspire and encourage. Shirley, we're glad to have you here today. Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, I think. Oh, I'm this is out of my comfort zone.
SPEAKER_04:It's out of most people's comfort zone. So you you're not alone. Just know uh just take a deep breath and and uh everything will be just fine. But appreciate you making the trek down from an hour plus away from north of Muncie.
SPEAKER_00:It was a beautiful drive. It's a lovely day.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. We've got some mutual friends that connected us. And you and I had a conversation a couple, two, three weeks ago, whatever it was. And uh you just you just made the comment that uh you know we talked for over an hour. And um, you know, for me, I was actually at home when we talked, and my wife was running around cleaning the house when we got done, and she could see the emotion in my face. And I she said, What's wrong? And I said, Um, I just I felt like I was talking, listening to my grandmother because your voice reminded me of her. And a lot of the stories that you shared, there was a connection that I had. And my grandmother, my grandma Schmidt, and I were I not every weekend, but a lot of the weekends I would spend the night at her home. Uh, she was the most kind, caring, compassionate woman that I ever knew. And uh so there was a connection there. So I've been excited uh for you to come and share your story. And I hope what everybody gains from it is there's so many different pieces to your story, just like for everyone. But there's so many different pieces. I hope what everybody gains is that no matter what happens in your life, you can find the positive in it. And that's what you've done. So thank you. For sure.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:So how we start every podcast, as you know, is we like to start from the beginning. So talk about what childhood was like for you growing up on the farm.
SPEAKER_00:It was probably like anybody growing up on the farm in the 50s and 60s. Um it was a small farm. I had more pets than you can imagine. I I held little baby chicks in my hand, you know, the little fluff balls, and you'd put them down in the brooder house. It was their pen was lined with newspaper, and they just scritched and scratched on it, and uh they went to sleep until somebody woke them up and they stayed by the the heat lamp. Baby pigs, you know, I saw calves born. It was just truly magical. The barn lot was a helterskelter of machines and people yelling orders what we're gonna be doing, what field we're gonna be in. Um I helped my mom cook, um, do the laundry. I didn't get paid like my brother got paid for driving the tractor, but I got paid in material so I could sew whatever I wanted to and make my clothes. Um so it was it was like others uh until it wasn't. And so when I was 10, um a family, friends that mom and dad knew had a senior boy that wanted to graduate, but their house burned down, and they were having to find a home somewhere else. So dad asked him if he wanted to live in our house, and uh he could work and do chores. I have a brother that's um 11 months older and a sister that's six years younger, so I'm the middle one. Um so Ed wasn't quite big enough to do some of the things that this 18-year-old boy could do. And we knew him, and one day he he was between jobs, or he saw me trying to ride a bike, and I hadn't learned to ride a bike at 10. So right there I felt like I'd failed. Most people ride sooner than that. And he said, Let me help you ride. Okay. So we had gone around the circle by the house, and we went around the circle by the barn, and he held me real tight with one arm and started touching me with the other in places he shouldn't be. And I didn't know what was going on. I was only 10. I didn't have any idea what what he was doing. Why would an 18-year-old boy do this to me? And then his mouth was right by my ear, and he said, Don't tell anyone, I'll kill your parents. Uh, you're stupid, you're a liar, no one would believe you anyway. And he had a sinister laugh. I didn't understand. I did not understand what was going on. Um, he turned to go to the barn, and I fell to the ground, picked my bike up, and went to the house. Um we lived in an old two-story farmhouse, and originally there was a pantry downstairs in the early days that they made into a bathroom. And I was taking a bath, and you know how you feel like somebody's watching you, and the door was locked, I knew, but when I looked up, there was a transom between the bathroom and the bedroom. So he was standing on my sister's bed with his hands on the bottom of the transom laughing at me, sneering. And again, why is this happening? I don't know. I don't know. I couldn't figure it out. Um and it happened often in the three months that he was with us. And then it was May and he left. And but the shame of that was awful. And I couldn't tell, because I you know, a ten-year-old believes in adult and what they say, and even though he wasn't maybe considered an adult, he was 18, he looked an adult. Uh so I put on a mask and lived with it.
SPEAKER_04:What did your parents think of him? Did they have any inclination?
SPEAKER_00:Well, that is a f a story in itself, too, because I thought my dad knew and didn't care. Because at the supper table he would say, Oh, how good he was helping he saw him helping me ride a bike and how nice that was. I figured you saw everything. Now, an adult, you think that's pretty stupid, you know. And I had a very loving mom and dad, and anyone that knew dad knew if he knew that, it would it would be different. But I didn't feel like I could tell, and I really thought he didn't care. And I really, why does this happen? I really thought maybe I was unworthy. I wasn't a good person, and maybe that happens to people that aren't good. I don't know. We were always active in our church. My grandfather, who I didn't meet, he died before I was born, he was the minister there. Another grandpa was the song leader, my dad was the deacon and clerk. And um I just remember walking into church and feeling loved. And the three older ladies that sat behind us always hugged me and always asked how I was. And I somehow thought they knew and they cared, even though I didn't say anything to them. Um the song service at our church was my sermons. I didn't understand the words, but I loved the singing. I loved the singing, and so that kind of got me through those hard times. Um I started 4-H and I started to learn how to cook and sew, and I found worth in that. Um I'm a middle child. My brother associated and was close to my mom, and my younger sister was close to my dad, and I was kind of in the middle. And some people say that's that doesn't matter, but all the kids I saw at school, I could tell, you know, I always found their position because that explained a lot of why they were the way they were. Um so we went on, you know, that was ten uh ten, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, you know, life was good.
SPEAKER_04:Did you did you ever confide in a friend, tell anyone about any of that? You kept around.
SPEAKER_00:Because I I thought my parents would be killed. So I had to keep it. The first person I told was my husband when he proposed. And I said, I will say yes, only if after I tell you this story. Because I felt such shame and what happened next, too. Um so I had friends at school, fifth, sixth grade, seventh grade. It was the beginning of seventh grade. That my friends before wrote me a note and said, We don't want to be seen with you. Don't sit with us, don't walk with us, don't talk with us. You're not part of our group anymore. They didn't know what had happened first. But that here I'm again, he told me I was nobody, they're telling me I'm nobody. Why would they do that? Well, we were housed in the old school at that time, and the new school was the elementary, and that's where the cafeteria was. So we had to walk a block to get lunch. And at the stop sign, they wanted to flirt with the high school boys. I didn't. I wanted to go eat my lunch and get back and study because I wanted to be a teacher. I knew in first grade I wanted to be a teacher. The couch was filled with my dolls and teddy bears, and I'd be reading stories to them because I wanted to be a teacher. I knew I had to get scholarship because dad was a farmer, and I didn't think we had enough money to send all three. So I worked really hard at school. But that's that's why they didn't want me. They didn't know the other. And I don't think girls in middle school that are mean know how much that hurts somebody and how long that can last. Um so I went home one day and I thought I'm just not worthy to be on this earth. And I never under I never asked why God let this happen. I just thought I wasn't worthy, so that's what happens when you're not worthy. Um there wasn't anything else to do but attempt suicide. So at twelve, I was up in my room and I attempted suicide. And as the air was leaving my body, I heard, although the publisher of one of my books said, You don't hear God's voice, it's the His presence, but I I heard God's voice say, I love you. I will always love you, and don't let anyone ever make you feel this way again. So as the air was coming into my body, I thought, God loves me. I was amazed. My mom asked what happened when I went downstairs or at supper that night, and I told her I had dried my hair in my bonnet that had a cord on it. That's what blow dryers used to be like in the day, and that that cord had burned my neck. And she that was enough for her that she didn't ask any questions. Um But when they gave me that note, I ran back to the high school, hid in the bathroom, closed the bathroom stall, crossed my legs so nobody could see my legs, and I cried without a noise for two weeks. That's when I knew there wasn't anything left but not to be here. So after that happened, I went, I decided I was gonna eat, no matter what. I was gonna walk to the cafeteria. And there was an unwritten code then. I don't know about you boys, but if you didn't have someone to sit with, you were nothing. You had to sit with a crowd. You know, boys kind of make friends easier than girls, but the girls kind of walk around and size you up, and they can be mean. Um so I walked past those girls, walked over, got my tray, sat down by myself, and then another girl in our class that I knew but had never really done much with said, Can I sit here? And we were friends till high school. So, as bad as that was, I learned to walk march to my own drummer. And I didn't care what the other kids said or did. So the next year in eighth grade, one of our popular girls decided to make an honesty book, which was the so social media of the day. And it was a notebook, and you had two pages as you open with your name, and you all were supposed to write in it how to make me a better person. Everybody wrote down for everybody how you could help them improve, and it was going to be all good, right? So I opened mine up and it said there were only four entries. Shirley Johnson is a big fat cow, has no friends, uh, is a teacher's pet and like school or something. Had I not gone through the other, I would have been devastated. But I laughed. I said, if God is with me, who cares? You know? And I wish the kids can learn that now. You don't have to follow. You you don't have to lead, but you have to know what to stand for. So the rest, see, that was 12. So at 14, I prayed that God would give me someone to love that would love me for who I was and that I could love. Well, our church had a big group of kids that age, you know, and we played volleyball and baseball on Sunday afternoons. We'd go to different houses for a big carry-in dinner and all that. Well, one day, three of us girls were sitting under the shade tree while the boys were playing baseball, and one of the little ones, like three, had been with his mom, but he wanted to be out with the boys, so he called. And his brother came over and lifted him over the fence, didn't complain. He was over there about five minutes, ten, and he wanted to go back with mom. So he came out of the outfill again, lifted him over. I said, I want him. I want him or somebody like him. Um, but I was 14 and he was 17. So he went to service, he went to the Air Force, and his aunt said, Won't you write him? He's so homesick. I said, Oh no, he'll think I'm a dork. I mean, I use his name around school all the time because he went to Anderson, nobody knew him, so you know, I I was hoping. I was praying for that. I did write him on February 29th is leap year, and that is allowed for girls to ask the boys out. I didn't know if you know that or not.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00:You didn't know that, but that's true. So I wrote him the first letter, and then that started us dating in letters, and um he gave me my diamond on February 29th, four years later. Oh wow. So, you know, that is the rough part of my life, and it was great, you know. Rich and I uh were married after he got out of service. I finished college. Uh, we lived in Spencer, where his parents had moved from Anderson. Um we had a little girl, and we were pregnant with another one. And our little trailer on our farm, we were gonna have to build a house. So we were from Delaware, Madison County, and dad said, if you want to come back home, I'll give you an acre of ground, and you can build a house up here, because that's where we both kind of grew up. So dad did that. I said, give us the hilliest acre you've got. Didn't compare to Owen County, but it was good. Um, and we had another baby, and then we had the blizzard.
SPEAKER_04:78? Yeah. That happens to be the year I was born.
SPEAKER_00:Huh. Our daughter, our youngest, was born in August of 77. Rich helped build our house to save money, uh, so he didn't get a teaching job. I wasn't working because of the baby. So we had very little money, no subbing work, and he got very uh worried about that. And he would sit and look at the Franklin fire place that we had, and Kim, the older one, would go up and pat him on the back and say, Daddy, won't you play with me? And that was one of our low points because I said he had to get his act together because he was hurting the girls. But he was worried about money. So um Rich was diagnosed with testicular cancer on Chris, the younger one's fourth birthday. Kim was seven, she was four. We'd been married nine years. And that was devastating. Um on her birthday, I came, I they thought at that time it was kidney stones, and they'd given him a lot to sleep, and I promised them I'd come home and have a birthday party, you know, with them. She's four. So I left him and I was driving home and the car acted up and I couldn't shift out of first gear. And I just thought, God, what I can't take anymore. I don't know what else, I don't know what to do. So I'm inching along in first, wanting to get home to her, wanting tomorrow to be over because he was going to have a surgery. And I I went to my uncle's house that was not so far away, and I was sobbing, and I said, Rich has got cancer and it's Chris's birthday, and the car's acting up, and I and so he said, I'll take you home. I'll come back, I'll work on the car tonight, Judy, his wife, and he would bring the car back. I'd have it ready first thing. And he did. So then Rich had surgery to remove one testicle, and uh we were gonna be headed to IU Med Center for chemo the next day. And Rich looked at the urologist and said, How am I gonna get there by helicopter? Because he was in pain, he was scared, and he looked at him and said, You're not that special, you'll go by car. So my mom and dad. My mom and dad became speed dial over the next few years that we had stuff to go through. His mom and dad met us there. Um Dr. Einhorn had developed the protocol for testicular cancer. Um, boys 18 to 34 are who are most susceptible. Normal man's HCG count is three to five, and Rich's was over 26,000. So he had been bailing hay for my dad in June. He thought he had a groin injury, and men don't like to go to the doctor, and their pride, I don't know how you all are, but their pride is a fierce thing. He just said, Oh, it's nothing, it'll get better. And then his back started hurting. Well, he had a football-sized tumor in his abdomen and softball-sized tumors on his lungs. So he was terminal at the beginning. Ten years before, there was zero chance of making it. But because of Dr. Einhorn and his protocol, he it was 98% cure rate. But you had to go through chemo to shrink down everything before you can have surgery to remove.
SPEAKER_04:And throughout this time, you were working as a school teacher?
SPEAKER_00:And I well, the first that we went to IU, I packed for three weeks because they couldn't tell me how long I would be there. But we were there a week because the chemo was so hard on his kidneys he had to be on IV. And we found out it would be a week at a time when we were there. Normally they wait um a month or two. But because Rich was so bad, his was pushed up to every two weeks.
SPEAKER_04:How was his attitude throughout that process?
SPEAKER_00:You know, he fought in Vietnam. He was a fighter from the beginning, and he sat there in his bed and said, you know, I could have had all the money in the world, and I'd still be here. And how lucky we are to be 60 miles from Dr. Einhorn. So that was a definite switch in his thinking about money and just blessed to be alive and have hope that they were going to take care of this. Um, so I went to stay with him one night and then come back and teach and stay with the girls and then went teach and then went back to with him, so that was kind of the rotation I had. But my parents were very good to, you know, fill in, and his parents helped with the girls in the summer when they didn't have school because they were in kindergarten in second grade, I guess. Preschool maybe in second grade. It was hard, and people have asked, how did you get through that? And I look back now and just say, there's no way we could have gotten through it without God being there with us. He had his first surgery, and the next day we were going to Indianapolis. Well, that night I went home to be with the girls because I didn't know how long I would be there, and I had to stop and get gas. And I just stopped and put my head on the steering wheel and I said, I am weak. I'm weary. We're two days into this. I can't do this. I don't know how long I sat there. Uh I just was bone-tired. I got out, filled the car, went in and paid, came out, and while I was walking to my car, I felt like I'd slept. God had given me a reciprocal peace. I said, okay, God, we're gonna do this. Um so you know, you you knew he was with you. He didn't promise us life without pain. He didn't promise all blue skies. Um Rich never once said, why me? He always said, Why not me? I'm no different than anybody else. He had four younger brothers. He went to Vietnam hoping his brothers wouldn't have to go. He said, Baby, if I go through cancer, they wouldn't have to. You know, it was his way of thinking. And one protocol of four weeks was not enough. They tested his blood, he still had, so he had to go through another round of four weeks. That March in 82, I was at school and I came to get him. He was going to be released that day. And he said, it was the strangest thing. Grapple Dixon was here and he said, Rich, you're gonna be okay. It was like he was on the other side of a curtain. He said, It was really odd. I mean, I knew he was there. I said, Well, that is odd, but you know, I'm sure he's thinking about you. We went home, he died that afternoon about that time. And you talk about God moments, and Rich adored him. And he wasn't strong enough to be a pole bearer, but he was an honorary and walked with a casket. Um, so God was with us in so many ways. Um he he got well enough and went back to teaching. Um the girls were busy in school, I was busy in school, life was good, you know. Well, let me back up. He his grandpa died in March. In June, I woke up to the bed shaking. I thought we were having an earthquake. I flipped on the light and it was rich. He was having a seizure. He had a brain tumor where the chemo doesn't cross the brain barrier, so some cells had gotten through, and he had a tumor on the brain. So we were headed back to uh uh IU Med Center.
SPEAKER_04:This was how long after life returned to normal, a little bit?
SPEAKER_00:Well, this was before normal. Before I forgot you I forgot this one. Yeah. This was June before he went back to work in October. Um So we went to IU Med Center on a Thursday. His surgeon came in on Friday morning, and he said, I'm the best surgeon there is. I'll take care of you. And when he walked out, I said, Boy, he was kind of cocky. And Rich says, if I'm having brain surgery, I want the best surgeon. Um and he also reminded, he also said, Listen, I had a nurse that lived up there at Weaver's Popcorn, and she always brought me test popcorn. And Rich had taught up there. He said, I'll bring you test popcorn. That'll be part of my bill. I said, So we'll have it on Monday. And he said, Oh no, Rich has been through too much. We're having it. I'm gonna come back on Saturday, which they don't usually do surgery on Saturday. So Saturday morning we get ready for the surgery, and the lights went out, the electricity was off at IU Med Center, and I'm going to the nurse, so we're not having it. What's happening? And now I'm thinking, okay, this is a bad sign. We shouldn't be having this. And and she said, No, we have generators, they just haven't kicked in yet. So but you always have doubts. Oh, yeah. Even though you feel strong in your faith, Satan doesn't give up on you.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_00:There was one time when he was having it, it was bad, and I was coming home on sixty nine, and it was like Satan was in my ear saying, He's not gonna make it. He's not gonna make it. And I'm pounding the dash of the car saying, Get out of here. I know he's gonna make it. I'm not listening to you. And I've wondered since why somebody didn't report me to the police as a crazy woman driving me out sixty nine. So then he was able to teach. Oh the the brain surgery. 45 minutes they came to get me. Now it was 13 hours when they removed the tumors from his lung and abdomen, two teams. 45 minutes they came and said he's ready. And I knew that they couldn't get it all in 45 minutes. And I was kind of crying, and his mom and brothers and my parents were there. So I went back to recovery to see him, and Dr. Einhorn was coming out as I was going in. And I said, So you couldn't get it all. And he said, Oh no, we got it all. He said, Richard, you know how he is. It was in a sack, protected, so it couldn't, his body had made a sack, so cells couldn't go out, and it was on the surface of the brain, so we could just lift that sack out and be done. And I said, Oh, thank you for always taking care of him. And he said, Shirley, I haven't done anything. Rich has always had a higher power.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:And for a doctor to say that. So when I got back there, he had a turban on his head and a drain tube, and he was watching the World Series or some baseball game. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing, amazing. So then life goes back to normal.
SPEAKER_00:Then life goes back to normal, and he taught, and well, I don't know that we had normal. He had um a detached retina that the doctor missed. In April, we were sitting in church and he said, I can't, I can't see, I can't see the minister's top half. I said, Oh, go ahead, horse and around, pay attention. And then a little bit later he said, I can't see the right half. So we went into the doctor in April. He couldn't find anything wrong. We went back in May, we went back in June. Rich is complaining. So we get him some PTST post-traumatic stress disorder counseling, thinking, you know, Rich has always had uh survivor's guilt from coming back in Vietnam and and not being physically wounded. But I thought his was more, am I gonna have cancer again? So finally in September he said, I have to I have to go again to the doctor. The doctor had the Saturday appointments, he said, I'll give you 15 minutes of counseling, but I know there's nothing wrong. A new doctor walked in who had a special magnifying, he had a torn retina all that time. And they called me. I was at a section regional volleyball game at Westdown. They called the school, they got a hold of me. I went in thinking he's gonna be just one mess. And he was so happy, he said, I'm not crazy. There really is something wrong. So we had that, he had a buckled retina, uh, he developed Parkinson's disease from they said, all that he'd been through. Not it's it wasn't a typical Parkinson's, but he was started losing balance and he had to walk with a walker, and that was hard on him. The pride thing of needing a walker and then a wheelchair. And people often talked to me over him when he was in the wheelchair, and they didn't realize what they were doing, and that was hard. So he left teaching in 95 and was doing fairly well, but had some memory issues from the where his tumor was is the front lobo where he planning and that kind of thing. We went back in April of 2005 to the hospital because he was falling. And they found he had a tumor on the brainstem. And you can't do anything with a tumor on the brain stem, you can't biopsy it, you can't remove it. It was not testicular coming back because the blood work was fine. So here we go.
SPEAKER_04:What were you thinking then?
SPEAKER_00:I was thinking that he would have to be in a nursing home or I quit teaching because he couldn't be left alone. So we had uh two nurses stay with him, a veteran came one day, and the school let me stay home two days to finish school. I didn't want him to go to a nursing home, and he didn't want me to quit teaching because he knew I loved it. That was in April when he came home. School ended the end of May. He died the 8th of June. I think he gave up because he knew it was hard. And it was hard for him. So we had um when he came home, we had a hospital bed put in our bedroom and um that final so he could talk on Friday, and his brothers had all been there. And in the middle of the night he woke me up and I I said, It's two o'clock in the morning, you've got to go to sleep. You know, I went back to bed and he rattled the rails again. And I went over and I said, Are you okay? And he just looked at me and I said, Are you scared? And I crawled in bed with him. And he said, Would you promise me three things? I said, I'll promise you anything. He said, When I'm gone, will you mow under my Chevy? You know how bad it looks to have weeds under your truck of all the things for him to think about. I said, I'll mow, I'll mow under your red Chevy. Will you put a flag on my grave? I don't want flowers. I want an American flag. I will do that. And he said, Will you be happy? I said, I will be happy. He said, You're a strong person. I know you'll make it. So that was Thursday, Friday. Sunday he wasn't talking. Hospice had been called in. They were gonna bring in a Vietnam medic who was used to finding veins because they said he was dehydrated. And then they wanted to take him back to the hospital and hydrate him. And I said, Would you promise me that I can bring him home if he goes to the hospital? And she said, I can't promise that they'll release him. And he said when we came home, don't take me back. They can't do anything, don't take me back. So the the Vietnam medic came, the service veteran who had fought in Vietnam came and he said he was already in the dying process, and if you try and rehibrate rehydrate him, it would make everything worse. So he he passed away and we had the funeral, and Rich wanted to be in s buried in southern Indiana, so it's a three-hour drive to the cemetery. But there are, I don't know, five Thacker men all in a row that had served. And he wanted to be there with them. So I had school, I was still teaching, and I had school, and you know, grieving is on and off again. You just you don't ever finish it. It just comes and goes. And the hole in your heart never mends, and time doesn't make it better. You just learn to live with it. Um so I love this man since I was 14. It it was hard not to have him with me and help me make decisions, and he got to walk. The youngest one got married first. He got to walk her down the aisle, but he was gone when the second one got married.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you for sharing all that.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, that's um I wouldn't be standing here if it wasn't for God's grace, his mercy, his love, you know.
SPEAKER_04:It's it's so powerful just to, you know, that your voice is what gets me. You know, it's just so calming, and you know, I can only imagine the pain and the the fear and the doubt that you felt throughout you know, since being a 10-year-old little girl. One thing you didn't hit on was this this book of poetry that you wrote called The Wind Beneath the Pines. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because this is one this is where you got me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. At the end of our house, he planted pine trees all over our property. And at the end of the house, we had pine trees. And Rich would love to have his lounge chair out there and rest, and he had his straw hat over his eyes, and the cat would be on his belly, and he'd say, Won't you come and sit with me? And I said, But I've got laundry, I've got school, I've got, you know, and it wasn't that I didn't want to be there, I just didn't think I had time that I could. But the last year, and I didn't know it was the last summer, I went out with him. And it was the most peaceful. There is a breeze that blows in pine trees that makes a noise like no other. And so I sat with him and it was like peace and and calmness. And he said, I want you to write a book and we'll call and call it Wind Beneath the Pines. I wasn't even writing then. I didn't start writing until after he died. Um, I wanted to write his story for hospice, is why I started. But he said, you know, when we sit on grandpa's porch or we sit around the kitchen table and all those stories start floating around, and they're not in any order, it's just short stories. And he said you could have a chapter on our family, and a chapter on church and faith, and a chapter on school kids. So after I started writing, I always had in mind I would do that, and they would be short stories. Philip Gawley has porch tales, and they're just short quips. That's what it was going to be. But then I loved poetry, and so I was afraid I was gonna die and not have it done, and I had to get it done. So I I wrote poetry. And I I'm always looking for poems, poetry that kids can do because I teach kids still. I tutor and uh I help my daughter with the comp class of fourth and fifth graders, and I want she does not like poetry, by the way. I I'm called in for the poetry, and I want them to know because you can write a lot in a little amount of space, and it says a lot, and I want the kids to be able to write their stories. So I wrote the first story, Richard's hospice. I wrote my story next because I'd carried it around so long, and I don't think I'd been told you can't write other things until you write the hard stories. So so it's a poetry book.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and here's here's why it hit me, because I've only I've only ever told m my wife this. I I've always told her, I, you know, if I'm ever on my deathbed, which I will be someday, but if I'm if I'm blessed enough to be in that position and be at home, I have always told her, sit me in front of the window where there's a nice cool breeze that I can feel, because at our home we've got pine trees to the west, and there's always a breeze. And that is my uh comfort zone is sitting in front of a window or sitting in a spot under a shade tree where I feel that breeze. So when you told me that, it was like, holy cow, you know, and here you wrote a book about it. So that was the big connection for me. I I want to read the back cover of this book. It says, In the shade of the pine trees, the whisper of the wind blowing through the branches sounds like the conversations on the front porch and the remembrances shared by those gathered around the kitchen table. You need to write the stories, Shirley's husband said as he sat near the trees. The tales about life. So Shirley did.
SPEAKER_00:So in this, I have six different kinds of poetry, and I used rich to write in the end at the back all the different kinds. Six-word poems. Can you imagine saying anything with just six words? But free verse. I hated washing dishes. I declared I would marry someone rich and buy paper plates. Mom laughed when I married Rich. My friend, we went, we met in church, we played volleyball and softball. At 14, I knew he was the guy God gave me. He was 17 and oh so shy. When he went to the Air Force and was homesick, I wrote him. Time, absence, our love grew through those letters, prayers as he fought in Vietnam. Our Vietnam soldiers endured ridicule when they came home. Rich was covered with survivors' guilt. We relied on our faith and love, two young kids, married, and became one. We learned life together and became parents of two daughters, worked hard for our teaching careers. Nine years after the wedding, another battle began. Testicular cancer spread to his abdomen, lugs, and brain. Rich became a soldier again, this time in God's army. He fought a good fight. He ran the face race with patients. Problems came, torn retina, buckled retina, PTSD, Parkinson's damage from chemotherapy. He always bounced back until he didn't. A tumor on the brainstem couldn't be treated. The doctor said, Go home and live the rest of your days. There is nothing more we can do. I believe he gave up knowing it was getting hard for me. I held his hand where while he took his last three breaths. He soared away with the angel, strong again and walking tall. No more sickness and sadness. Fearless he launched away. My love, my friend, my nort northern star. One day, one day we'll walk the streets of heaven together.
SPEAKER_04:And that's The Wind Beneath the Pines, poetry by Shirley Thacker. You can get this, and we'll we'll link this on the website. We'll link it at the bottom of the YouTube and everywhere for the podcast, so those of you uh can support.
SPEAKER_00:So when I started writing, I felt it was God giving me the gift to write. And so if God gives you a talent, you're not supposed to keep them. You're supposed to give them away. I keep none of the money from my books. I've supported um Cancer Research and Dr. Einhorn, the um Writer Path in Hagerstown, um teachers at our school, um homeless veterans, Latchkey at our school, and the red Chevy. The red Chevy is about everything Rich our grandson said when he died. AJ in the book said, why didn't Pap take his red Chevy to heaven? He really said that. And I said, Well, he was kind and he left it because he knew we would need it. That money was going to go to wounded warriors because Rich was a vet. In the meantime, I'd sent it to the publisher. A 19-year-old boy from Westdale, who was a middle school football coach, had been to a wedding, helped clean up, coming home late at night, went off the road. He called his mom, she said, We'll come. She talked to him the whole way, he wasn't hurt, and he said, She said, We're almost there. And he got out of the car to meet them. And he stepped on a live wire and was killed. So the money from that book in night in 2018 went to Alex Collins um football scholarship. His mom, and I forgot that, um Another God moment. She wrote a song and I fell in love with it. I got the C D and I took it home to play it for Rich. He he cried. I played it through three times. We just sat there and cried about thanking God for all you've brought us through. And he said, How did she know our story? Well, it wasn't her our story, it was her story. But she sang that for me with uh at Rich's funeral.
SPEAKER_04:Wow. And so how many books have you written? I've got a whole stack here.
SPEAKER_00:Seven, I think.
SPEAKER_04:Seven. So seven books, a lot of children's books. Yes. Um and again, we'll link all these and there, you know, so that people can um I don't know, maybe we can purchase them. There's two, four, three. I kind of lost count. That's awesome. There's eight, yeah. And you said there's one that's not a big one. There's one more, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So a lot of them are on Amazon and then Kids at Heart Publishing in uh Cambridge City did the others, but it's amazing.
SPEAKER_04:And you wrote your story from from when you were ten?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_04:How long did you keep that in before you actually told uh you you obviously told Rich when he asked you to marry him? Yes.
SPEAKER_00:But beyond that, when the girls were in middle school, Kim came home one day and said, I don't think anybody would know if I wasn't here. I'm not a sports person, I'm not in the clubs, I don't date anyone, I don't drink, I don't tell foul stor jokes, I'm just nobody. So I pulled out my little piece of paper that they had written on that I had saved all those years, and I told them. And about that time I told mom and dad.
SPEAKER_04:How did they react?
SPEAKER_00:They just they couldn't believe it, you know. Dad said, You should have, you should have told us. I said, I thought he would kill you. You know, so I didn't.
SPEAKER_04:So what advice would you have for someone who may be in that same situation right now?
SPEAKER_00:If anyone tells you don't tell, you tell, because nobody has that right over you to tell you not to tell something. Um if you feel like you're nobody, know that you are. You are somebody made special. We're wonderfully, marvelously made by our God who made the earth, the heavens. You're an heir in his kingdom. How could you not be nothing? You are somebody. Um to anyone that's battling any kind of illness, you just have to hold on. The pain ends. That little boy on Idol sang a song he wrote, Hope, H-O-P-E. Hold on, pain ends. And look for joy. I think when we are in the midst of sadness, we don't see much joy. We don't we may feel blessed, but uh the gratitude that comes every single day when you see joy. And if you if you need to find a little child that's six or seven, spend some time because you will find joy immediately playing and talking and reading with little kids.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. Last question If you could sit on a park bench and have a conversation with someone living or deceased, who would it be and why?
SPEAKER_00:Without a doubt, it would be on a park bench beneath the wind of the pine trees, and it would be rich. And we would hold hands. I wouldn't ask him about heaven, but I would say to you, I know you've seen all that's happening. In those seconds, if God had not been with me, your children wouldn't be here, your grandchildren wouldn't be here, and we wouldn't have loved each other. So they were saved for a reason, and I would be in his arms one more time.
SPEAKER_04:Wow. There you go, Ben.
SPEAKER_03:Powerful. You gripped me right from the rip because my son, uh, Cy, he's 10. And then the second instance that you had with seventh grader, I have another son that's in seventh grade, and just thinking about, you know, some of the things that you weren't able to share with your parents. And those things that us as parents don't think about, you know, really talking to your kids about. It's just uh it was really eye-opening, you know.
SPEAKER_00:They don't always tell, they don't always know how to say, and if you have boys, I mean you have to start talking about um exam, self-exam, just like the girls do for a breast. You have to do that. Uh, because you never think it's gonna happen to you. If Rich had gone in June, he wouldn't have had such extensive. If you get it early, men with pride that don't want to go to the doctor need to nip it in the bud and go early. Um, you know, with the story I wrote about my story, it's got a Christmas tree on the front, but it's not billed as a Christmas story. And the reason I did that was because it was in October when it happened. And so on Christmas, I sat in our living room. They were all in the kitchen but me. The lights of the Christmas tree. I thought, man, God, why did you save me? I don't know. What have I ever done? Chris Christofferson's song, what have I ever done to deserve one, even one of the blessings I have? But I'm glad you did. And I just, when we got married and had our first Christmas, Rich knew that how much it meant. We spent hours finding the perfect Christmas tree. Let me just say. And so Jonathan Bao is from Yorktown and he's an artist at Taylor. He did the illustrations. So when I got them for approval, I looked at the back page and I said, Jonathan, you gave me angels. And he said, I don't know what you're talking about. I said, You put angels in the light bulbs. He said, No, I didn't. I said, I see angels. I see angels.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that wasn't intentional.
SPEAKER_04:Oh. That's pretty awesome. It's an amazing story, and I can't say thank you enough for being so open and honest and vulnerable with it, because um it's not an easy thing to do, but I think it's an important thing to do.
SPEAKER_00:If I said, why did God save me and not others? Robin Williams had far more money than me to help people, then it I must have gone through it for a reason. And I really think it's to share with kids. It's to share with others to help them go through. So thank you for letting me have a platform to do that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you're you're amazing. You're amazing. Your story's amazing, your your positive attitude, um, your voice. Uh again, I I feel my grandmother. I really do. It's it's uh it's very touching, and and I know that there are many of you out there who have heard this story and have been touched in some way, shape, or form, whether it's for maybe a similar battle as as a young girl going through that. Maybe it's uh, you know, uh a loved one who's was sick, and uh maybe they're going through it right now. But as we've learned, the pain will end. Yeah, life will continue to go on, yeah. And as long as you remain positive and you try to find the good in it, everything will be okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And have faith.
SPEAKER_00:Have faith. Know your blessings. God loves us and look for the joy. I hope you put my email address on, and anybody that wants to write their story to me, I'd be happy to read it.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. Yeah, if you're okay with that, we'll do that. That way, if you they want to reach out and um, you know, share whatever story or ask a question. Absolutely. Yeah, that's awesome. All right, everybody. Thank you again for your ears and your support. Surely thank you again for making the trek and go out and be tempered.
SPEAKER_01:My name is Alice. This is what I've got to do.
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