BeTempered
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BeTempered
BeTempered Episode 87 - What It Really Means to Be 'Tempered' with Mike Derringer
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Some stories do not get easier with time. They shape who you become.
On this episode of BeTempered, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr sit down with Superintendent and educator Mike Derringer. What begins as a conversation about leadership in education quickly turns into something much deeper. Mike shares a life marked by early momentum and purpose-driven work that was later shaped by unimaginable loss. He and his wife buried two daughters, years apart, and still found a way to lead, love, and serve with integrity while carrying grief that never fully leaves.
Mike walks us through his journey from agricultural education and FFA leadership into county-level service, where his Educational Service Center exists to reach students who often fall through the cracks. MD units. Nonverbal autistic classrooms. Behavior coaching. Alternative placements. Speech therapy. Mental health supports. He also names a quiet crisis many do not talk about. When kids cannot access pediatric care, they cannot attend school consistently. When they cannot attend, they cannot learn. His vision is clear. Invest locally. Build partnerships. Treat education, health, and community as one system with kids at the center.
The heart of this episode comes when Mike speaks as a father, not an administrator. He describes grief not as something you conquer, but as something you carry. A sharp rock that never disappears, but one you learn to walk with. He refuses to hide it. Instead, he honors all four of his daughters by choosing to live fully in the middle. The space between birth and death. The daily choice to stay present.
He talks openly about marriage as an action, faith when anger would be easier, and the strength found in what he calls a strand of three. That same belief shapes his leadership. Titles are tools, not identities. Kindness is a decision. And service still matters, even when your own heart is healing.
This episode is for anyone walking through loss, leadership, or quiet perseverance. It is a reminder that resilience is not born in comfort. It is forged.
Listen now, subscribe, and share this episode with someone who needs hope.
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And tell us this. Where has your life asked you to be tempered?
Ads, Mission, And Community Invitation
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SPEAKER_01I want to share something that's become a big part of the BTempered mission: Patreon. Now, if you've never used it before, Patreon is a platform where we can build community together. It's not just about supporting the podcast, it's about having a space where we can connect on a deeper level, encourage one another, and walk this journey of faith, resilience, and perseverance side by side. Here's how it works. You can join as a free member and get access to daily posts, behind-the-scenes updates, encouragement, and some things I don't always put out on other platforms. And if you feel called to support the mission financially, there are different levels where you can do that too. That support helps us keep producing the podcasts, creating gear, hosting events, and sharing stories that we believe can truly impact lives. And here's the cool part Patreon has a free app you can download right on your phone. It works just like Facebook or Instagram, but it's built specifically for our community. You'll be able to scroll through posts, watch videos, listen to content, and interact with others who are on the same journey. At the end of the day, this isn't just about content, it's about connection. It's about building something together. Not just me and Ben putting out episodes, but a family of people committed to growing stronger through real stories and real faith. So whether you just want to hop on as a free member or you feel called to support in a bigger way, Patreon is the door into that community. Because at the heart of Be Tempered has always been simple real stories, raw truth, resilient faith, so that even one person out there that hears what they need to hear, and Patreon helps make that possible.
SPEAKER_04Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we explore the art of finding balance in a chaotic world.
SPEAKER_06Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, practical tips, and inspiring stories to help you navigate life's ups and downs with grace and resilience.
SPEAKER_04We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Sparr. Let's embark on a journey to live our best lives.
SPEAKER_06This is Be Tempered.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to hijack anything, uh, because my my story is the Lord's story. Yep. In his work in us. Yeah. Right. And, you know, we are all beautifully wonderful made, but we're also incredibly broken people. And this is a process, right? Life is a process. There's no finished product. And you know, you all you talk about, you know, um just sharing stories, and and that that's ideal. That's what we're after. Um you know, stories are still written, right? And and there's no we're not done. Like I'm we are still very much hurt and broken, and and this life is cruel and unfair, and you know, I have every reason to be a wonderful father, and why is that not happening? Right, right. Why we're why did this happen to us is uh incredibly not fair, and you get better, you get bitter, right? Right. So so we've chosen to get better, but there's still and I say we a lot, my wife and I are a team and all that, so that's um I just don't want to hijack anything because um and you'll hear uh if we if I get prompted, right? I mean, like, you know Oh, that's pressure on me. No, no, what I'm saying is, you know, um my my personality is so different than it was a decade ago, right? Okay, um everything that you know, the happy and the jovial and the the you know all the accolades from high school and college and and all that, that's all wonderful. And and I mean, I'm still that person in some circles, but but I have my heart has been literally brain heart, the whole thing is different now, right? Tempered, if you will.
SPEAKER_05I love it.
SPEAKER_02Tempered! You ever heard of it? Let me tell you about what tempering is. Let me tell you what tempering does to glass. Can you drop this mic? Can I can I share what that means to I love it?
Formative Years And The Power Of A Mentor
SPEAKER_05So we're gonna have to start there, Kevin. Got it. Let's rock and roll. You know the number? 87. All right. What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, episode number eight seven. I don't think it flowed. It did not flow. I tried. Hey, today on the Be Tempered Podcast, I'm truly honored to welcome Mike Daringer, a leader, an educator, and a man whose life story carries both purpose and profound perspective. Mike serves as the superintendent of the Preble County Educational Service Center, where he works closely with schools, educators, and communities to support students and help them thrive. His heart for kids, for education, and for doing what's right for families is evident in the way he leads and the way he serves our community. But beyond his professional role, Mike's story runs much deeper. Mike and his wife have walked through significant loss, tragedy, and grief. Experience that have shaped their faith, strengthened their marriage, and redefined what it means to love, persevere, and keep moving forward when life doesn't make sense. Their journey is one marked by honesty, resilience, and a quiet strength that comes from choosing hope even in the hardest seasons. What's especially powerful about Mike's story is how he and his wife have allowed pain to become a purpose, not turning inwards but outwards. Using their experiences to support, encourage, and walk alongside others who are navigating their own season of loss, doubt, and heartbreak. This is a conversation about faith in the valleys, love inside suffering, the strength of a marriage tested by life's hardest moments, and what it looks like to keep showing up for your family, your calling, and the people around you. Mike, thank you for your leadership, your humility, and your willingness to share your journey. Welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you. Uh it's nice to be here. I've listened um about the past five or six months, just not not every episode, but it's really nice to um even just uh with uh Tyler last week and he kept talking about people that have sat in this chair, right? So it's um it's nice to be a a part of this community and um appreciate what you all do, the the message of you know, tempering, of, of getting having that fire and being stronger on the other side is is um is worth is worth promoting. So really thanks for what you guys do. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_05We appreciate the support and we appreciate you um, you know your willingness to come up here and to share your story because it's powerful. And I didn't know all of it, and I I still don't know all the ins and outs of it, but we had a conversation a a week or two ago, and I was like, wow, man, like you are you are exactly what this mission is about. It's about going through the fire, trying to get better because of it, and then sharing it with others. So you know how we like to start every podcast. We like to start from the beginning. So talk about what life was like for you growing up as a kid.
SPEAKER_02Uh pretty good. Pretty good. Uh upper middle class farm family, um, mom and dad still together, you know, nearly everybody in the family is together. Um little sister Kathy's a couple years younger than me. Um just uh 2003 graduate of National Trail. Um class president voted most likely to succeed, all that yucky stuff that matters a lot then. Um, and and again, the a theme for some of this, uh, you know, all the the leadership stuff, you know, um it it it matters. It matters because the title, right? It's this, it's uh, you know, it's it's one thing, and that's just the bottom rung, right? And and a lot of people stay there. Um and that stuff mattered a lot uh when I was younger. It it did. And uh, but but had a, you know, we'll get to it, but but you know, that those titles, those positions, those are just platforms, right? And and you, it's what you do with that w when you when you are in the moment, right? Uh what you do with that with the blessings and the gifts that the Lord gave you. Um, so he gave me um a pretty good personality. He gave me, uh, that's how I got uh married my wife, because it's certainly not from my looks. It's uh it's uh yeah, I got a great personality, and and uh that's uh that's certainly good enough, but uh, but no, I had a great, great upbringing. Um, you know, um production family farm, um right there on Shine there. Um mom and dad always uh instilled some good values, I think, and and uh just keep uh growing on that, and that's from their parents and their parents and their parents before that. Um really enjoyed being outside. Uh still do. Uh, you know, um couple role models, you know, Joe Sloan's one of them, uh National Trail uh high school um ag education instructor, right? And instilled in me that love. I always loved agriculture and I loved education. Uh, you know, mom was at school, uh, there at trail. Um, you know, grandpa drove bus. Uh, you know, there's there's so many um ties to education. Um, Uncle Bill was a county superintend or a superintendent for quite a while and a principal before that, you know. So I was always going to do something in education. Uh, and my love for agriculture, I just kind of blended them together and went to Ohio State for uh the Ohio State University for uh agricultural education and and met my wife there and and uh then came back home uh and and all that, had a great, great college career there um at Ohio State for my undergrad. Um, then have been a couple different places getting master's and and degrees and and more you know, more more things to keep your uh superintendent license. Uh so there's always uh classes to take, unfortunately, but but but the uh um but just really enjoyed uh the the ability to to learn. I'm a lifelong learner, I think that's important. Um you really can't be stagnant in your ways with regards to to um to what it is that you're trying to do and trying to improve on yourself. And if you just kind of stay in neutral, that's um that's not great. And that's never been something that I do. So so we tried to do a lot of things um growing up uh with uh with raising pigs and and uh it was one of my hobbies and and uh just bought our our forever home here uh guess last December now. So uh starting to do all that now, have our first litters on the ground here coming soon. So I'm excited for that. Yeah, excited for that. Uh kind of full circle moments on some things. Um I'll stop you for a second.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I I'd like to back up to Joe Sloan a little bit. Yeah, sure. Can you spend a little time on Joe, the man that he was, and why he influenced influenced you in such a strong, profound manner?
Teaching, Leadership, And Purpose Beyond Titles
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and I I taught ag for 13 years um there, Talawanda in Ridgewood before that. Um, and you know, I modeled myself after who I, you know, you don't want to, you know, you say you don't want to meet your hero sometimes, right? But you know, when when you're a high school kid and that's you know, he's he's just a man, right? And we're all just men and we're broken and flawed and we're there's so many things, right? But in that moment, I mean, the what he was able to do with me is um I heard from whole life how great I am, right? Uh, you know, you got this, Mike, you're, you know, a student, you're everybody likes you. Uh, you know, you're you're destined for greatness. You're gonna, you know, you are Mr. Preble County, some for some of these people, right? Preble pig kid, right? Is my AIM messenger name, right? Uh so uh very good stuff. Uh all the um all the things that you want uh from a high schooler, and Joe didn't care about any of that at all. He pushed me as a human being. Uh, there's some good coaches out there as well, you know, but um I was never gifted uh uh physically to do a lot of the the good sports stuff. I mean, I liked playing. I liked playing. I knew I was never gonna be a you know star athlete, you know, have to use my brain uh to get through a lot of a lot of this. And and uh what Joe was able to do is um truly was able to motivate me more than you know, I I you know, I was in the scouts, I was an Eagle Scout, uh, you know, so got that part going, got, you know, 4-H president, you know, all the stuff, right? Right. That it looks like stuff now as a 40, 40-year-old guy. Um, you know, but you know, at the time, you know, of course you're junior fair board president, you know, that's just what you're supposed to do, Mike, right? All the things that you're supposed to do. Joe didn't care about any of that. Um, Joe pushed me to be better than I was because I could do it, right? And I didn't see it in myself. It was just very easy for me to, you know, just roll it out there and be great in high school, roll it out there and be great in middle school. And and and and what he was able to do is find that motivation piece to um to to push me farther than I thought I could go. And I'll I'll always thank him for that. And he I'll thank him for my career um to get going in that in those uh first couple of years. And and we um he he died pretty quickly, pretty suddenly, um, before we ever really got a chance to teach together, right? And my first my first teaching job, I was in Eastern Ohio near the Zanesville area, uh in Coshocton. Um, beautiful country, love it there. Um, and he was obviously there at Trail. And then when I moved back, uh, I got a good job there at Talawanda. And um, and when I started there, that's about when he he got pretty quick there. So um, and actually uh the first person that was teaching after Joe uh was my wife, who's a long-term sub there at Trail. So just an incredible full circle moment on that. And and you just see where the Lord kind of places things, and and that was that was uh really neat um to to see. I carried his casket, right? I carried the casket for my ag teacher, um, one of the more influential uh fellows in my life, and and that was um that was that was a lot. Uh but yeah, but he was able to instill um you know, nothing wrong with anybody else, mom and dad, and and you know, ran a lot of good coaches and um a lot of people in my life that that you know supported, right? But Joe pushed. Right. And and sometimes you need pushed, right? Uh I think everybody has a needs to seek that out if we haven't done so. Find someone that can push you, right? And then as a as a high school, like, oh I don't have to just roll it out for this guy. Um, I gotta make myself better. Yeah, right. And not just for the affirmation, but oh, he he sees something in me that was that was pretty wild. And and he also knew where not to push, right? Because my high school gig and my my lane that I could be in was different than other people's, right? Um, I was not farm enough uh for some of the the things that we needed to do in the ag education classroom. So in in the in all that, so we pushed the leadership development, right? And he and I was um a state FFA officer um because of that pushing, right? And then, you know, going to, you know, um traveling all across Ohio within that year after and and just you know promoting FFA and agricultural education, and that turned into my career, um, which is pretty wild. And those connections that I made um throughout that experience helped me get a good my good first job and become a leader in the in the uh in the profession there for those long time I was there and won some won some awards, uh certainly um uh for um young education or young education and and um uh some of that, but but you know, that's all because of of that pushing from Joe, really. Um, because no one was pushing me to where I needed to be pushed.
SPEAKER_05Everybody was telling you you're doing a great job. Yeah, honestly.
SPEAKER_02And looking back on it now, I mean it's high school, right? But but it matters a lot in the in the moment, right? Right. And in, you know, I didn't think was gonna come on here and I was gonna talk about Joe a lot, but but here I am, and and we're talking uh what I appreciate from him and what I I hope he's proud of me now, uh if he saw me, and I hope that he would, um, and the legacy that he's helped create, not just here at in this community, but across the the state and a couple places in um in the nation, really. Um just uh a lot of his students have gone on to do a lot of really great things, and he'd call them his students, right? And and the good ag teachers, you know, those are their kids. Yeah, right. Those are their kids. Yeah. So that that's well, thanks for sharing that.
SPEAKER_05I yeah, I just know what a an impact that and a mentor he was for you. And I just wanted people to hear that, you know, it wasn't because he told you how great you were, it was because he told you, hey, you're not that great, you're not that special. We're gonna push, we're gonna push you a little further to be even better. Exactly what it was.
SPEAKER_06What an honor to be able to carry his casket, too. Yeah, I I yeah. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was and again, it was there was a a couple of us, but yeah, it was nice to uh my I I remember that. I distinctly remember that. That's um that's something you don't want to do. A lot of things you don't want to do, uh, with regards to uh to death and and and all that, and uh and just the the the notion of of being there for the the in this case is um his um son and daughter, but but you know, just uh to be um have the ability to to give back in just a small way is is was important.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So you go to Ohio State, you graduate from Ohio State, you meet your are you married in school, out of school when you get we got married just after.
Why Administration And What ESCs Do
SPEAKER_02Just after uh we were and we we weren't engaged uh in college, so to speak, but um you know she went to go have her first teaching job in uh in uh Wyandotte County, uh and I went to go have my first, so that's up there, and I went to go have my first teaching job over here in Zanesville, Coshocton uh area. So that was a two and a half hour drive for the year and a half there. Uh, and then um we got married after that and uh literally um lived in double wide trailer up in the holler uh in uh in uh in Coshocton, Ohio. Uh beautiful, beautiful area. Got so many good friends there still. Um we did that for a couple years, and then I got the call to to uh because I was always looking, right? You know, you you don't, you know, you you pour into your that profession as much as you can, built really great relationships, had a really great program. Uh program was already very good. Um, you know, you don't have a problem with comparing FFA chapters and comparing program. You can compare football wins and losses. That's a little different, right? Um with with with academic education programs, right? Like FFA, like you know, FCCLA, you know, the the career tech, right? The the you know, there's obviously wins and losses like with who wins this award or that award, and I get that. But man, uh the career tech aspect for the community is what really matters, and what it looks like is very different. Everybody knows, you know, what a good football team could look like, right? What what is a good program or what is a good career tech program at this school is what this school needs. And then what's at this school is what this school needs, right? Right. So with that being said, you know, I I was a part of a great program at Ridgewood and I I got hired at Talawanda, which was a very great program as well. And and I'd like to think I helped make it better over those nine years I was there. But you know, that's a suburban school, right? That was in the process of building a brand new school. Uh, I helped uh move out of the Chestnut Street building, and that's all a parking lot now, uh, then into the the new beautiful building that it is now. And it was um uh uh feather in the cap, I guess, just helping it with that transition uh and carrying on uh what was already a stellar program uh into into what it is, you know, hope hopefully now or what it is now, and and great leadership that's there in the community, right? That that's that's what it's really about. Um but but the but the there's always good people, right? And regardless of what the platform is, whether it's agricultural education, whether it's you know any other things, right? That platform it is uh there's always good people, right? And you gotta seek them out, right? And sometimes they seek you out, right? But it's it's the platform, whatever the whatever that message is, is um not overly important. Nice, super smooth. Look at that. Uh nice. Uh well, where was I like like the you know, whether whatever it is that you're doing, right? Um, you know, when you're when you talk, you know, men, sometimes we are defined by our profession, right? And that's the nature of the beast. It doesn't have to be that way, right? That's who you that's what you. Do that's not who you are. And that's that's one of the stories that I like to share. You know, what I yeah, that's what I do, it's not who I am, right? Right. Um, it's what you do, it's what you do, it's not what you are, right? Right. We are child children of God, we are husbands, we are fathers, we are leaders, we are the people. We're the straws that stirs the drinks. We are. That's right, right? And we we cannot be stagnant. We cannot be. We we have a a um an authority and a right to to stir the drink. We're supposed to do so. Yeah, so whatever that looks like in in our lives is is the important thing, and we got to make that thing the thing, right? Right. I think too too many people are stagnant. And that's a tough one.
SPEAKER_05And I would say, um, you know, when you say stagnant, I think of comfort. Yep. You know, too many people get comfortable in their daily lives, their daily routines, and they they they get like you get stagnant, they get stuck. Yeah, and then they don't know how to get out of it. And uh I think the the power lies in um you know, taking that scary step, you know, whatever that step is to get out of that comfort zone, to get out of of being stagnant. So that's an important point for sure.
SPEAKER_02Which is why I turned to the dark side, I guess, right? Um everybody said, you know, that's the the the buzzword there, but um, I I loved what I do, and I think that teaching agricultural education is was what I was meant to do uh in that moment and and for the longest time. And and once you get to a certain spot, and and with us, unfortunately, you know, and we'll we'll get to that here soon, I think. But one of us needed to make a career change. Um, so I always kind of felt that push for administration, and and that's kind of where we but where we went.
SPEAKER_05Why did you feel that push? What was what was pushing you there?
SPEAKER_02Again, maybe Joe a little bit, but but just the idea of, you know, this is this is great, and this is where we're at, and this is what the rest of this looks like, right? Um, we were coming and going, you know, we still do come and go a lot, you know, as the kids have grown up, but but but you know, um, we didn't see a lot of each other because a lot of evening commitments, right? A lot of Saturday and Sunday commitments, respectfully, with the those that do that do agricultural education and and some of those um the things that you you should do to in the in the idea of having a a program, right? Uh you should do all three circle models of that of the three-circle model of the program, one of which is the FFA, right? And one of which is SAE, which is the kids' experiences at home, right? So those need visited, those need tracked and all that. So there's a lot of really um a lot of things outside of the classroom uh that need done, right? So um just really I've always kind of thought about uh administration because I want to give back and I miss the kids a lot, right? But you know, being a uh you saw went and um got a was a good principal, I think. A couple days there at uh Missino Valley uh was where I had my first principal's job, was up there in Dark County for for two years. Again, the community was beautiful, uh the the staff was very welcoming, and and I I learned how to be a good administrator up there. Uh then then an opportunity came here in Prabill County, and this is where I'm at now. And and I'm I'm real real happy and and in um you when you you just said content is uh not necessarily in a good context, but I'm I feel very at peace uh in this current role, right? Right. Um and again, what I hope to what I hope to be um portraying is is you know, if I haven't got there yet, I'm sure we will here soon, but but the the I want to portray service, right? Service above self. Yeah. Uh that's you know, that's the rotary motto, which is uh important to me, but but but the uh hands open to service is very important, right? That that you're we're on this earth for others and to help others come along. We are, yeah, right? Uh love God, love people. That's that's it. That's it, right? That's it. Uh so I can do that really well in my role currently. I feel like it's kind of custom built for someone like me uh to help the whole county uh with with regards to with regards to um certainly academic um concerns. Um there's so many things that ESCs do that are on purpose underneath the radar that are on purpose should not be front and center things, right? Uh, but but it's a it's a really wonderful, unique job. Um, and I'm pretty unique anyway. So it kind of works out for it works out pretty well. I'm I'm really content. I mean, uh, and again, I've got you know 20 some more years to work professionally, and and I do see myself doing um this kind of work for the rest of this time.
SPEAKER_05So, what makes the ESC different? Because I I don't know that a lot of people understand what the ESC does.
County Needs, Health Gaps, And Community Solutions
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um uh educational service center. So all the things the schools need help with is what we help with, right? Whether um, you know, we have the Success Academy uh at Preble County, you know, there's um 80 kids there that um are very difficult for the the traditional schools, right? Uh in a lot of it are behavior concerns, a lot of it is, you know, I've I've got scars on this arm uh from from students uh at the Success Academy, and and that's and that's okay. Um that's because they're you know, sometimes the the um sometimes it's what you can see, sometimes what you can't see, right? Right. Um a lot of these behaviors have come like there's there's students uh with that were born with things in their systems, right? Um, so they can't like sit in a chair for very long. Does that mean they can't have good education? Does that mean they can be a productive citizen, right? They can be, right? Um, foster kids, it gets bounced around every 18 months, right? That kid's probably logically, you know, probably might need some more individual care.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_02That's what we're here for, right? That's that's a big part of it. Um, students in lieu of expulsion. There's great kids in this county that can't lay off a vape pen, right? There's kids that are they get pregnant too early, right? And they still need they deserve an education, and that's what we do there, right? Um, mental health is such a big role, is such a big, big part there, right? Uh A's, B's that matters a lot, but also matters the whole child, teaching educating the whole child. So uh we do that at the at the uh Success Academy. The MD units, uh, we've got six classrooms. A lot of them are some of them are nonverbal, autistic classrooms throughout the county, um, that need that need a lot, right? That need a lot. Uh there's uh, you know, we do a lot of the uh speech therapy, we do a lot of the behavior coaching, right? Uh we can blame a lot on COVID, but but uh the kids these days are not the kids that we are used to, right? Right. And they're they're first grade, kindergarten, second grade, preschool now. That's where they're at now, right? And this a lot of the schools are they're doing the best they can. There's an influx of students now, and they and they need me. They they need the ESC now, right? So there's things like that. Um, we have over 600 kids educated at home, home instruction or you know, homeschooling in the pre 600 kids are educated. Yeah, 600. Yeah, 600. Um in you know, the we need to have tracks on every one of those kids, right? Uh, we do the the uh enrichment programs for the county. So I am the voice of the Proble County Spelling B. You know, uh in the uh my kids love that uh Geography B, Spelling B, uh County Art Show, uh band, county band, all county choir, though those things that are the fun part the right. So uh there's a lot of things that the ESC does, and that's just a small sampling. Um, the things that the schools need individual help with, right? And then uh the uh career connections program, right? Um, you know, Harold Neehouse and what what he does um under our under our guidance throughout the county is is beautiful and it's actually state recognized. Uh so there's a lot of things that we do and and it on purpose um to support the the the home school, right? So that's uh I get to help everybody.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so it's amazing. Yeah. And then the preschool, right?
SPEAKER_02Oh, certainly, yeah. Yeah, we have um uh we we run the preschool uh for national trail in Freedon and we do the uh the special needs preschools for the county.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So um, yeah, there's the yeah, preschool has, you know, well over 150 kids.
SPEAKER_06So are my young indebts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So yeah, there's there's a lot of careful. Yeah, but but yeah, that's um we we do a lot of things for the county um to help raise these these children into uh young men and young women that want to come back and be good taxpayers and be good uh and be good homeowners and start families here and continue to develop what we're doing. Um I mean it's uh there's a reason, there's a method to the madness. I mean, uh it starts with a good family at home, certainly, and it starts with education, right? And I think it's blended. It starts with families that respect education. Um, you know, I I was fearful of my dad if I got in trouble at school. Oh, yeah, right. Fearful. Uh and and uh it's not that much, not that much anymore, right? There's a lot of phone calls about, you know, you looked at my kid different, right? You made my kid feel some kind of way. I'm coming after you, right? And that that's the world we live in now.
SPEAKER_05Instead of taking that ownership.
SPEAKER_02Sure, yeah, sure. Uh so that's um that that's a grounded piece that that I think that we need more of, respectfully, but you know, we there's too many. And again, you hear about the nasty things, right? Um, and there's there are some nasty people. There's some nasty folks that work in education, right? Certainly, there's nasty folks that work in every profession. Right. Okay. Uh the fact that everybody has been in school before thinks that they know how to be in a school, right? Not everybody, you know, not everybody can be a doctor, right? Right. Uh, not everybody can be a, you know, some of these other professions, but everybody's been to school. So we know what a teacher should do, and we know what a principal should do, and we certainly know how a superintendent should run a school, right? So that the the this constant scrutiny of um of public education is um is a tough one. Yeah, that's a tough one.
SPEAKER_05What would you say right now is the number one need in in Preble County that you deal with every day that you're like, man, if we could if we could just fix this, this would take care of a lot of other issues.
SPEAKER_02Uh we need a pediatrician, we need a pediatrician in Preble County. Uh, if kids are healthy, right? If kids are healthy, they can come to school, they can stay at school. We have a lot of parents that can't come pick their kids up if they are unhealthy. We have some parents that have to send sick kids to school because parents have to go to work, right? So um, if we fix that mindset, if we have um an opportunity for students to be healthier, right, their attendance will improve, certainly. Uh, their academics will likely improve. Uh their community, the engagement of their school would certainly be better as well. Right. Um, we need a place to do that. Um, our our Success Academy, we rent that building. Um, there's a there's been some good talks about what could happen if uh we own the building or if the county or if someone owns that building and we could truly do we could do all the things, right? That this county truly needs all in one facility, right? Uh that that's a that's a big need.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's a big need. Uh you look around at these broken homes and these broken families, and and they're broken because the resources are out of counting. Right. Uh it's hard for people that are trying to make their lives better if they can't get to work.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02Or if they, oh why why is your kid struggling? Why is your kid struggling? I I don't have enough food to eat.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. So I mean that's that's an eating guys, but that's also in West Elkton, that's in New Paris, that's in that's in all the places. And one of the tougher things to comprehend, um, you know, everybody says, well, why don't we just do this or this and this? It's a logistical thing, right? We have to go out of county for so many services in Preble County, right? Um, and the fact that we're a small county in population should not be the indicator of we should have small service in Preble County. Okay. If we take care of our kids, when we take care of our kids, if we as a community um dedicate time to take care of our kids, those kids grow up.
unknownYeah.
Fatherhood, Loss, And Growing Around Grief
SPEAKER_02And those kids stay in the community, hopefully, right? Right. Those kids have jobs in the community because jobs are going to be created, housing is going to be created, and then you you you everything works so much better in a community if the schools are supported. Right? If the schools are supported and if the children in the schools are supported, that's what it's about. Right. Right. Now that's how you cultivate a community is you is you you work with the kids and you give those kids the you know, you you want to be, oh, you want to be like how Kettering is, right? Uh Kettering's a great example, right? Uh just you know, very affluent, you know, all the things, right? They they they invest in their school. That's right. Invest in the school, and then the kids in the school, and then everything trickles out of that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right? That's that's where we're at. That's where we need to be. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, there's no doubt uh you're a leader in the community. There's no doubt where your heart is. Um, so you know that that's that's a snippet of your your career to this point. Sure.
SPEAKER_06Now I want to backtrack a little bit. One thing real quick though. Go ahead. You kept coming back to like we were talking about complacent and being like comfort, and you're like, well, complacent, but you could tell like complacent in this place is more of like the peace that you talked about. Like that you know, like this is where you're at. And then as soon as we start talking about ESC and like everything you do, like you just see your eyes light up and just like, I don't know, you can just tell like that's where you're supposed to be.
SPEAKER_02And and it's wild, right? I mean, I I wanted to I wanted to teach kids how to judge soil, right? Right. And and this is what you're looking for when you're looking at a market hog, right? And and you know, here's how first four ways to amend emotion, right? That these are you know, and I I love it and I still get to live it. Um my wife, you know, teaches Ag there at Twin Valley South. Um, so we still get to help with a lot of those things. Um, man, I'd love to be able to do more. Um it was what I wanted to do for the longest time. And then you just realize that that you can still do the those things that you liked, you can still do, but here's in this role. And then, you know, it takes some knocking on the head and the and the Lord put me in in this role now, and the doors have been open to where um it has to be me, right? Because I'm to the point now where this is, you know, we are we're developing staff and we are developing the county, right? We're doing a lot of behavior coaching, we're doing a lot of of um truly expanded services so that our county schools are improving. So our county, the kids in this county are improving. It we we should want to go to school, not we are have to go to school, right? Um, because I have an attendance officer, we'll send after you. Uh, but but but but no, uh we we want to do it. Um I I I guess to uh to to finish that one up, uh yeah, it should be education should be something that we want, right? Um, so many in kids don't most kids don't realize that they're in middle school, they're in high school, like okay, just go to school, that's what you do, it's what you do, right? But but there's so many parts of this world where what an honor it is to have education, right? What an honor to have education, what an honor to ask why questions, right? Not being indoctrinated, but asking, well, why is it this way? And having meaningful conversations, you know, um, things like what, you know, just age at Tyler on last week. That's the last one I watched. Yeah, that's the last one I've watched, but but the uh, you know, what what he's doing is a great example of of asking those and having kids having the ability to ask questions back, right? This isn't you don't do this is the answer, you know. So let's figure this out together, right? Right. I mean, that's the world that we live in now, but we have we're so blessed to have the opportunity to ask those questions. Uh, in in a lot of parts of this world, um, don't get to ask those questions.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, it's an honor to be an American, it's an honor to live in this country where we have the freedoms to to ask those questions. And then I think I really believe that it it happens. The best way to do that is at home, certainly. And what you learn at home uh with mom and dad, um, in theory, uh, or grandma, grandpa, or whoever those influential people are. But but man, uh so much time of those formative years are spent in in school. Right. So, man, we got to get it right there. We got to get it right at school.
SPEAKER_06And how do you get kids that want to follow? You have to have somebody in charge that's that passionate. Sure. Like that. You know, it's like you hear yeah, and you can tell I love it. That's the plan. Yeah, true.
SPEAKER_05So that's your career right now to date. And uh yeah, I love the passion and the enthusiasm. There's no doubt that you care.
SPEAKER_02I get to help everybody. Yes, that's really cool.
SPEAKER_05It's amazing. I want to back up a little bit though on your family. So at some point in time, you're married, um, you get married, and you decide you want to have a family. Talk about that journey.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh, we got married in 2009. Uh had Miranda in 2012, perfect, whatever call, whatever perfect looks like uh, you know, she was uh, you know, she is truly the the apple of my eye. Uh my oldest daughter. Um she's uh 13 now and seventh grader at National Trail, uh kind of getting into all the things. Um she's gone through the things that I went through, but in a girl form. So I don't know any idea what's going on. But but but I I I think I know, but I have no idea. Um, and she's got a great mom, and and um, and that's how that goes. And um, you know, so I don't have much else to say on that, but you know, Miranda was and still is you just a wonderful human and is destined for greatness. Uh, she is destined for greatness, and I I hope to be just a small part of of allowing that greatness to the the Lord to work into her, uh to so the um the greatness can come out of her, right? And uh that that's that's my prayer, uh, that's my hope, and and that's what we want to do. So uh yeah, we uh kept going and you know, 2015 rolls around. It's like let's let's do this again. Well, 14, um, then into 2015, and things were very different from there, Dan. Yeah. So um we uh uh Audrey Kate uh was our second daughter. Uh she was here with us for six days. Um we were uh we thought it was we we we knew uh once we went to that one doctor's appointment that it was very different. It was very different, um, not like our first pregnancy at all. Um and uh I I it's uh you know, what I really wanted to do was be a dad, right? I love love being married. Okay, but I want to be a good dad. Um and it's just one in the cards uh for that. But but you know, you get the opportunity, and again, we can go as detailed as you want uh with this, but um not a lot of people can say that they did everything they were supposed to do as a husband or as a father, right? I had six days with this beautiful soul, and I led that soul back to the Lord and I gave her to God done, right? Husb father, we did our job, right? However long you have with your children, uh you just want to be the good dad, right? You want to be a good mom, you want to be the person that can shepherd his sheep, right? And and that's uh we did that. We did that. Um and again, well, yeah, and again, I went back to my career, I guess, but you know, a lot of the MD students that we have, right? Um, I think that my my girls, because we'll we'll we have another one here, um, but but the uh I get to help those kids, right? The the severe needs, physical needs, kids. I'm I'm real passionate, like Ben said, maybe I'm real passionate about this is because I had had I have a couple girls that would have been there, right? Um, so that was 2015, and then um during when COVID all that happened, we we had Colleen in between there, and Colleen had a very tough pregnancy, but you know, it didn't look like everything, you know, everything she came out okay. And um, oh, there's some lungs kind of underdeveloped. So yeah, we had to go back to children's hospital uh where we lost Audrey and Colleen was there for a couple weeks. Uh issues. How did that feel? Not great, not not great.
SPEAKER_05And then after going through what you went through, yeah.
Marriage Through Tragedy And Faith’s Anchor
SPEAKER_02And then we were able to bring Colleen home, but then we we got pregnant again, and and then we we had faith for a Day and a half in in yeah. So I I am honored and also disheartened to share that two of my children are with the Lord. Okay, they were living, breathing humans that were that had their eyes open and were, you know, a part of this world, right? So uh my heart has completely hardened and and has been broken and hardened again and broken again and hardened and broken again. And it's it's not anything that you want anyone to know to to to have to replicate, right? Um I can't imagine people going through this kind of stuff without a faith in Jesus Christ. And it happens all the time. And how how broken and how helpless must that be? And and I don't do enough, I don't do a good enough job about it, and I'm sure we all don't, but but you know, we need to share our stories and we need to lead, you know, my story is to to tell my story is to tell of him, right? Big Daddy Weave song in 2015, right? Um, this is my story, this is my song, praising the savior all the day long. But but you know, the the the ability to to go through this kind of stuff and come out on the other side, there's no other side to come out on, right? And people, you know, there's no page to be turned, right? You grow around your grief, right? The the analogy is a big, you know, sharp rock that you keep in your pocket, right? So before 2015, you know, I was very much happy, jovial all the time, right? Personality, like my brain chemistry is different now. I know it is. I know it is. I have been tempered. It's a it's a glass thing. I let you know about it. Okay. Um, but but yeah, the the uh I get it. Okay, good. Uh, but but but I mean, I am I am changed. I am changed. And it doesn't get easier. You grow around your grief, that big weird rock that you keep in your pocket is different now. It's softened a little bit, it's still there, and you don't want it to go away, right? There are, you know, I I want to always have my girls at the forefront, all four of them. I'm a father of four, and I'll tell every I'll never I never get to have a complete family picture. But I am a family of four girls. Absolutely. Um we do all the things, right? We've got stuff around the house, you know. My girls know they know that they've got sisters in heaven, and we surely our life would be very different if they were here. Um and the Lord needed them. And and I I feel guilty sometimes because I don't talk about them enough, right? I I you know, you want to carry on legacies and you want to you you want to do all the things that you can't, right? But what you can do is you can live because they can't, right? It it living is the part in the middle. The opposite of death isn't life. The opposite of death is birth, right? Birth and death. Living is the part in the middle, and we can live, right? We can do the things and we can experience the things and we can take the chances and we can do the things that are hard and we can do the things that are scary because that's life. And we can make mistakes and grow from them.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because they can't, right? And that's kind of my mantra, if there's anything, you know, life is what happens now, that's what's going on now, right? Birth and death are the opposites, right? It's what you do here, right? And because they cannot, because Audrey cannot, because Faith cannot, um, we are going to. And that that's kind of where we're at. So it's it's incredibly cruel that it happened, and it's really cruel it happened a second time. Unrelated. Completely unrelated.
SPEAKER_05Unrelated, unrelated. I I can't imagine going through that the first time. Then having your third daughter, and everything works out. It did, it did. But then can you take us back to that Faith, right? Was she that she was the fourth?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_05Can you take us back to when you realize that things were a little different?
SPEAKER_02I I was angry. I was angry. Uh, you go through those five stages, and anger, I was there for the longest time. Uh, there's there's not as many, not that we search seek it out, but um it's hard for the men, um, for the dads, right? Um everybody wraps around the the the woman who's carrying this child, right? Rightfully so, right? We we should be. You put yourself last, right? Um we we are we're the servants, right? Um I was very lone. I was I was uh angry. Um nobody knows how to talk to the guy like that, right? Nope, nobody can yeah, that that's not really a thing. They don't make a book on that, and nobody would read it anyway. Um and everything that people were tried, you know, is is wrong. Because you can't describe grief, you can't describe that. Um, everyone's grief is different. Um, you can't compare grief. I did that for the longest time. That's that's poisonous, right? Oh, I had a bad day. Uh I my boss looked at me the wrong way. Um, oh, I had a flat tire this morning. Oh, yeah. I yeah, a couple kids died. Yeah, but yeah, your problem is hard too, right? That's tough. Don't do that. Um, I was there for a while. I was there for a while. Um, where I compared everything to my own grief, and I I fell. It felt feels like falling. There's a hole there, and and it feels like you're falling into this chasm that is not great. It's not great. And then just with time, um, you you learn to grow. I've said it a couple of times, but you grow around your grief, you don't want it to go away. It doesn't go away. Okay, there's still a very sharp rock in my pocket, right? Almost like a sign, like, hey, dead kids, right? And you wear that sign around and you feel like that's what everyone sees with you. Uh, and that's and that's that's not that's not good thinking. Um, because I'm still I'm still me, right? I'm a different me, right? And and you get better or you get better. And in over time, and with a lot of prayer, respectfully, and with a lot of, and it it's I said time, but it is with time, um, it was not fair to go back to with faith. It was not fair. It was I was angry. Um it was during COVID time, right? So it was just my wife and I and two young kids, and that was tough. That was tough. And um you don't um you don't come back the same way from either of those experiences. And you uh I tried really hard, you name it, and I tried to cope that way, including a lot of the bad things, right? Um I feel like I can say that. Uh in the only thing that in in it I I was I wrestled with God, right? I wrestled with him, okay, like Jacob. Um, no, not like Jacob, but but uh it was uh um it it was it was very difficult and I I yelled and I asked the why, right? You know, why is this happening, right? And and still don't know, but because I want to be a dad so bad, right? That's what I'm here for. To be a good dad. Um and it it it can consume you in an unhealthy way, or you can allow that fire to consume you for positive, right? And and you don't want it to ever happen to anyone. And I wanted it to be me looking back on it because I can do it, and I did it. We came back on the other side, and we're doing the things. I'm leading my family it the best way I know how. And their message, there they they still carry on in our lives, they still carry on in a lot of people's lives. Um, I wear this is my wedding ring. Obviously, my my girls are on this ring. Um I'm not a tattoo guy, but but you know, but but you know, I wear this ring and and I um and I I think about my girls every day when I put it on. Um and I I want I I want to carry them on. And if there's anything that's good and positive and hopeful in anything that people see in me, it's because of that hardening from there. The good things that I had always been, I guess, are now coupled with this trauma and coupled with this, these incredible experiences that no one should go through. No parent should bury their children, right? Let alone twice. It does, it doesn't compute. It doesn't compute that way. And it and in the the audacity of hope perseveres, right? I still am audacious and brash and daring enough to ask the questions like, oh, well, okay, here we go, right? What's next? What's next? And um, and I'm I'm honored to tell their story in the fact of how it changed me and it changed Allison and it changed this world. Their stories have changed this world. I believe that. I believe that. And each this their stories are similar, but but you know, one was you know, come out of the blue, and one was in the dark of COVID, and and one was you know, it's just all all different situations, but you know, doctors say, you know, you you you probably should not carry this pregnancy on, and we just laughed at them. Right, right? We just laughed at them. That's how that's gonna go.
SPEAKER_05Uh and and we are we are um when they said that, what did you think?
Kindness, Presence, And Choosing To Keep Going
SPEAKER_02Well, uh, I mean, just because they're you know, they they mean well. Right. They mean well. Um, just it was you know, these are your non-viable pregnancies. Okay. So miracles happen all the time. And and with Audrey, you know, we were we thought we were gonna get osteogenesis imperfecta type three, um, or um, yeah, type three, but it turned into something much more different than that. Um, some type of skeletal dysplasia, stew vitamin syndrome is what it officially was called, um, which literally had uh, you know, dozens of cases in the world, dozens of cases in the world. And we had one uh here for our our girl. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So how do you, as a husband and wife, what's that relationship look like? Because in a lot of, you know, I I don't know what the stats are, but it's you know, in a lot of cases, when something like this happens and the loss of a child, it's obvious it's gonna go one of two ways, right? It's either gonna tear you apart or bring you closer together. So talk about that journey.
SPEAKER_02I we're still on the journey. I and I I think that that's healthy. Um, everyone should get married with the expectation if you choose to get married, if that's the the path that is being led to you, um, you should try hard to improve every day, right? And marriage is a is a verb, right? It's not a noun, right? It's what you do. It's what you do, and um you actively look at ways to improve what you're doing. Um, and we struggled for a while. We did, we did. I struggled for a while. Um, she felt like she couldn't talk to me, and I felt like I couldn't talk to her, and um, just a lot of what you'd call what you'd expect to see, I guess. But man, when you're living it, it's you know, what are we doing? And and we we chose to cling to each other in the darkest times. And and there's still a lot that I'm sure we can improve, right? Um, I'm sure there's a lot that that probably has been left unsaid that shouldn't be unsaid, but uh we don't know about it yet, right? Uh everything is everything is good, uh because we chose the you know, marriage takes three, right? Uh and you see that the this triangle, the triangle, the triangle or the cord of three, right? Strand of three cannot easily be broken. Um, you know, we are interwoven in our Lord, and that's what's carried us through, truly. Um, and I I see even now ways that my wife just completely amazes me that that um makes me fall in love with her again. And and that's uh that that's a that's a good one. Um, but it's uh we can't we can't live we can't live in the past. No one can. Some people do, right? And and we choose to we choose to go forward with with that, you know, carrying them in our daily lives, really. Uh and that's really difficult to describe, to be honest with you. Um whatever platform there is, whatever, whatever that story is that people have, right? Um, that's our story, and that is my story, right? And and our story is to share that none of this, this could have gone a lot of different ways, right? But because we ran to the Lord, we're okay. We're okay, and we will see them again. And that's that blessed assurance that I firmly believe with every fiber in my being, and and I'm going to live my life to where I can see them again. And I'm gonna tell their story so that others can feel that, can can feel that opportunity to uh, man, there's those guys have been through it and they're they're doing okay. What's their secret? My secret, there's no secret. The secret is the my faith in Jesus Christ. That's that's where this is. And I lead with faith because she was my daughter, and I lead with Audrey Kate uh because she's my daughter, and and I the decision making or that I have for this county, respectfully, is for all the kids, regardless of what they look like, regardless of where they were, or right, and even if they're adults now, they used to be kids in the county, right? These kids are the important things, and maybe in a grand scheme of things, Dan, the uh the idea I've always wanted to be a good dad, right? Be a good father, and and I'm kind of shepherding a big flock of kids now. And I have all these kids in mind. And that that's kind of where we're at. You just pulled it out of me, you're just staring at me. I'll tell you, that's good stuff. I never thought of it that way. It wasn't. Um, yeah, but but that's really maybe that's what I'm doing. Maybe I'm doing that the right way because um I think about all the kids. I'm trying to shepherd, right? Yeah, absolutely. That's cool.
SPEAKER_06And you look at the things that they've been through, yeah. Puts in perspective of, you know, yes, they've been through that. Like I've been through this, like I've been through a lot of pain. Like you've been through more pain than I can ever imagine. I I go back to Jude and Jude was born with underdeveloped lungs, and for his two first weeks, he was in the hospital. I remember wrestling with God when, you know, he survived, but in the hospital, I remember just thinking, like, God, like why? Like, why are you doing this to my first kid? Like, why am I here in the children's? And then, you know, there's a end up talking to the parents next to us, and girl next to us had a detached esophagus, and they got flown in from Chicago to Cincinnati or to Dayton Children's. Yeah. And they've been there for like four months. And like that girl has a detached esophagus. My, you know, Jude was fine like two weeks later, like we were out of the NICU, but like the pain, like children's, like every time I go in there, like it just I mean, you think at first I went in there thinking, like, man, why me? And then you look around all these other kids and you're thinking, like, man, like, I'm one of the blessed ones, you know. And I I mean I know my feelings in there when I didn't know if Jude was gonna be okay, and then going back in there with knowing that, you know, the first I mean, I can't imagine the second time going in there. Yeah, that's unbearable pain. And just the thing, but maybe that hardened you, like you said, to shepherd these kids, you know.
Final Reflections, Hope, And Closing Ads
SPEAKER_05Man, that's I'll tell you, you know, we when we met there a couple weeks ago, you mentioned that rock in your pocket. And the next morning I was running around town and I was thinking about our conversation. Because I I quite honestly, I mean, I've known you a long time, but I didn't I didn't know any of this until we had this discussion. And I had a rock in my shoe when I was running. And so all I thought about, and and and in fact, I mean, there were times I was running and I was crying because I was putting myself in your position. Obviously, I can't, right? But I just that feeling knowing that, you know, I have five healthy kids, and you know, unfortunately, we we did lose a child um through a miscarriage. And so that's what I was thinking about was you know, care you you talk about carrying that rock in your pocket, and I had that rock in my shoe, and I thought, you know, Mike carries this every day because he wants to he he wants to keep them up front as as part of his family. And I it's uh it was it was such a profound moment for me that morning that uh you know it really impacted me this this story. So man, I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing everything that you did.
SPEAKER_02And that's that's part of it, man. You gotta be vulnerable. Um it's easy to wall yourself up. And again, I I struggle with that today. It's 2000 almost 2026 now, but I mean, it's been a while, right? And and people, you know, there's people it's been long enough, right? Get back to who you used to be. It don't work that way. Uh so I I come across, I think, actually, I know, um, I come across a different way now. Okay, I'm not the happy jovial sunshine and rainbows fella that I was in high school, respectfully, and even in college. I mean, I'm not that guy anymore. Um, I'm I am different. I have been changed. Just all wicked. I have been changed for good. Uh I have not seen it. Okay, all right, no, never mind. All right. Um, but but no, and and again, you I do I wish it would have been different, of course. Of course, of course. Um, people need to see, you know, if there is anything, right? Um an old, older song from Garth Brooks that doesn't get a lot of pub is the change. Okay. Um, I hear them saying, You will not change me. And no matter what you do, it's still the same thing. It's not the world that I am changing. I do this so this world will know that it will not change me, is the chorus line, right? Beautiful song. Um, and songs are poetry, right? And I read poetry, so it's it's uh it's nice to um nice to catch that. But I mean, this world is so broken and it's so disgusting. It's it's if you look around at all the things that are bad and wrong, it's it's it will break your heart, right? And having the audacity to say that I I choose, I choose to lean into my walk with Jesus and I choose to I choose I choose, I make an active choice to to live to live in a in a manner that would be pleasing to him, but also to be pleasing to my kids. All of them. And if I can go that route, then we're doing something right. And if people see that, great. Um, if one person sees it, that's what we're really after, right? Uh and um it doesn't come without sacrifice, it doesn't come without um a lot of men, a lot of women, a lot of people cheering yawn. And a lot of times there's people that cheer yawn that you never know, right? Those um when people send up unspoken prayers, that that's impactful. It it is, it it is. I I I believe that. Um, there's just so many people that that want to help and they don't know how. So just just be be in prayer, right? Just be in silent meditation, be be whatever it is that you feel the need to be, and just just give people grace, right? Um, that that's a big part of life that I think people are starting to get, hopefully. People are starting to get um well just the way he is. Now just give people grace, just give people grace and and come at it again and and don't try don't stop, don't stop trying. Right. I think too many people when things happen to them, to them, right, they think, oh, this happened to me. No, nothing happened to you. You know, when when um you know, when when uh like if you think about the struggles and challenges, you know, it's not that God doesn't equip you to to conquer them, he equips you to to handle the situation at hand, I suppose, right? Um, you know, when when David and Goliath were class example, right? Um God didn't make David stronger. He got a slingshot. Okay, that's very different, right? Uh so those kind of things. I I think I rambled a little bit there, but but the the idea of of just finding the ways finding the ways to improve your situation, certainly, but but helping others improve their situations is where it's really at, right? Uh, because if people say and and you just did it, you know, I can't you both did I can't imagine. Good. I don't want you to. I don't want you to. I don't want you to. I want I want you to I want you to take whatever you're gleaning and impact it upon your daily life, right? And we are all going to be better in this world if we all help each other, if we serve with each other. That that's where we're at. We got to be a community.
SPEAKER_05That's be tempered. Yeah. I mean, that that's exactly what we're trying to do. And uh man, I appreciate it. You got anything else to add?
SPEAKER_06No, one thing when you walked in, and obviously I didn't know your story before, you know, before this podcast, but you said the holidays are rough.
SPEAKER_02Um they always are, yeah. Um, you know, it it's hard to, you know, I don't have family pictures that are ever full.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02Right. Uh and I I live with that, right? We live with that. That's uh there's always empty chairs at Thanksgiving, and there's empty chairs at Christmas and birthdays, kids' birthdays are hard. Um Father's Day is tough. Man, Father's Day's tough.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um the yeah, you get bitter, you get better. Right? Um so I struggled for a while and I'm struggling less now. The rock in your pocket is starting to, it's still there. It's smoothing over a little bit. It is certainly something I'm not going to remove. That's a part of me. And the I I'm I don't put on happy faces, right? I want to be I want to be in the moment for th for people, right? Uh, especially other family members, right? Uh, because I'm not gonna sit and sulk, uh, you know, if as my kids, you know, enjoying their Christmas morning, right? That's what kind of father am I for that, right? But but you know, you could focus on what you don't have or you could focus on what you do have. And I'm an incredibly blessed man. I'm an incredibly blessed man.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and I think that combined with grace, right? Like you talk about grace and sometimes I mean, look at people like if somebody has a bad attitude or something, or or maybe they are stalking, maybe it's early on in their their struggles they're dealing with, you know. It just goes to show you like have grace. You know, you don't know where that person's at, what they've done, gone through. Like I've seen you around the community many times and never realized, you know, the burdens you're carrying. Like you don't know some of my burdens I've carried, we don't know Dan's. And you know, holidays are tough times. Maybe it's somebody else's tough time, is is another season of their life, but just carry grace. Yeah, like that's that was powerful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it's not it, it's a that's a quick uh adage, but it takes no effort to be kind.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02It takes no effort to be kind. Um, that doesn't mean you fake kindness because you I don't think you can fake kindness respectfully. I think you can fake a lot of things, but kindness is kindness, and you can choose to be kind, you choose to do it.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02And and if there's someone that has given you a rough time, you know, maybe they're going through something. Just be kind. We need more kindness out here.
SPEAKER_06That's right. We do talk about changing the world, that's all.
SPEAKER_02I think so.
SPEAKER_06Just be kind.
SPEAKER_02I think so.
SPEAKER_05All right, last question. Sure. If you could sit on a park bench and have a conversation with someone living or deceased, who would it be and why?
SPEAKER_02Uh I thought about this one for a while. Uh, I want uh the easy answer is Jesus, right? And everyone, I think a lot of folks have said that on on your podcast and in way, shape, or form. And and I would certainly love to, but I'm gonna have that. I'm gonna have eternity with my with my maker. And I'm gonna ask him all the questions. Uh but but it's gonna be that uh it's gonna be in in the right context at that time. Because I don't need to know right now. I don't need to. Man, that's a tough one, right? You struggle without it. Why does this happen? I don't need to know. I will know someday. I have that blessed assurance. That's going to be a thing. Um so many questions I'd like to to ask. Um, you know, and certainly I'd love to have both my girls, right? And that's who I'd like to have one on each side of me. Uh, with all four of them, though. You know, I'd like to have Audrey and Faith, you know, hanging out with me with uh Brandon Colleen and Allison and my wife and and the six of us just have great conversation about something. I don't care. What we won't talk about. I I don't care. So and uh that that's what I'd like to see, Dan. That's what I really like to see. Um and what we talk about, I'm not sure what we talk about. Um doesn't matter. Yeah, I don't care. Yeah, that's that's what I that's my answer to this question. And um, you know, could they talk? I don't know. Um I I don't know. We we don't we won't know. We'll know someday. And um that would be a pretty cool park match.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Mike, thank you.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05Uh for everything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's um there's a lot of stories still being written. Yeah, right. I think that's um when people, you know, there's no expectation of coming on a podcast and and lighting the world on fire, you know, and there's no there's no um point to to uh hammer down other than the fact of of you just gotta keep going. You just gotta keep going. And and there's there were times where I didn't want to keep going. Right. And and there's so much in this world that can make you want to not keep going. Right. Man, you are a perfect, beautifully, wonderfully made, and for whatever reason, this is the path that we have to go. And I I choose I choose to keep going. Right. I choose to keep being what I think is a you know, trying to improve on on the things, but also just the the talents and skills that we have are are not to be hidden. Okay. Um we we we are a light, each one of us is a light, and lights are not meant to be hidden. Okay, so uh so whatever people think or glean from this or from anything that I do for the rest of my life, you know, um glean the fact that that that I am a light and you're a light, you're a light, and we all are lights, and we are not meant to be hidden. So whatever that looks like, uh be that light on this world is awfully important to me.
SPEAKER_05That's a great message, and and uh our lights are made to shine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they are.
SPEAKER_05And um, you know, you you're an amazing man, amazing father, um, amazing husband. And and what I love about your whole story is just the vulnerability to not be afraid to share those moments where you were at your darkest, those moments where you know it was tough for you and your wife because that is real.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. And in so many, you know, this is stuff that people don't talk about. You know, miscarriages certainly are things that people don't talk about. Uh in and it's a comfort thing, right? It's also a well, I don't know what to say. You don't have to say anything. Just be kind, right? Um people are uncomfortable going through you know calling hours, right? You know, there there's a a a death rate there, right? What do you say to the person? Just be kind. You don't gotta say anything, just just be present, right? So much of this life be kind to be present, be kind to be present, just be with people, right? We're gregarious people, be with people. Share your story, share other people's stories, just root them on from a distance, cry with them when they need to be cried with, hug them, love them, just be present. That's it. That's it. There's so much can be fixed, whatever fixing looks like. You can just be be with people. Don't hold yourself up, man. Don't hold yourself up. There's there's a lot of things out there that the society says, hold yourself up. You can't do it. You you're not good enough. Your best to just be the version of you on social media because that you're projecting the best parts, right? That's who you should be. Man, just be out there. Warts and all.
SPEAKER_05Be present.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, warts and all.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. That's amazing, man. Thank you again for for this, for coming up here and and sharing that story, and we'll we'll continue to uh to lift you and your family up in our prayers for you know just continued peace and healing and to keep taking that step. That's you know, that that is that's our motto. I mean, I this is be tempered. You are be tempered.
SPEAKER_02And uh probably listen to you for a little bit. So yeah, but I appreciate that. But but yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm happy to be on your podcast. I'm happy that you asked me. Yeah, um, and I was I can't say I was waiting for it, but I was I was hoping that someday you would ask me to come on here so that we could we could share this.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's uh amazing, amazing story. Uh and I think the overriding message is just to be kind, you know, without a doubt. So thank you again, everybody. We continue to uh to say thank you for your ears and your support and all those things that you're doing to uh to keep this be tempered movement going. So go out and be tempered.
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SPEAKER_01I want to share something that's become a big part of the Beatempered mission: Patreon. Now, if you've never used it before, Patreon is a platform where we can build community together. It's not just about supporting the podcast, it's about having a space where we can connect on a deeper level, encourage one another, and walk this journey of faith, resilience, and perseverance side by side. Here's how it works. You can join as a free member and get access to daily posts, behind the scenes updates, encouragement, and some things I don't always put out on other platforms. And if you feel called to support the mission financially, there are different levels where you can do that too. That support helps us keep producing the podcasts, creating gear, hosting events, and sharing stories that we believe can truly impact lives. And here's the cool part. Patreon has a free app you can download right on your phone. It works just like Facebook or Instagram, but it's built specifically for our community. You'll be able to scroll through posts, watch videos, listen to content, and interact with others who are on the same journey. At the end of the day, this isn't just about content, it's about connection. It's about building something together. Not just me and Ben putting out episodes, but a family of people committed to growing stronger through real stories and real faith. So whether you just want to hop on as a free member or you feel called to support in a bigger way, Patreon is the door into that community. Because at the heart of Be Tempered has always been simple real stories, raw truth, resilient faith, so that even one person out there that hears what they need to hear, and Patreon helps make that possible.
