BeTempered Episode 99 - She Looked Fine But Was Falling Apart with Cindy Lee

Cindy Lee shows up with energy, humor, and a presence that lights up the room. But behind that is a story most people would never guess. Diagnosed with multiple sclerosis at 28, battling relentless fatigue, surviving a head-on crash that left her with guilt she couldn’t shake, and walking through a career shift that pushed her into a level of depression she didn’t think she’d come back from.

In this conversation with Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr, Cindy opens up about what MS actually feels like day to day. The triggers. The mental fog. The constant adjustments just to function. But more than that, she talks about choosing not to let it define her outcome.

This episode goes deeper than just illness. It hits on burnout, purpose, and the quiet weight of holding everything in while looking completely fine on the outside. Cindy shares the moment she finally told the truth after years of silence, and how leaning into service became the thing that kept her going. From probation work to leadership roles, she believes people only change when they feel seen and held accountable.

If you’ve ever felt like you’re barely holding it together behind the scenes, this one is going to hit.

Watch, listen, and share with someone who needs it.

https://betempered.com

https://patreon.com/betempered 

Transcript

Sponsor Spot And Patreon Community

SPEAKER_00 0:00

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SPEAKER_05 0:04

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SPEAKER_04 0:29

I want to share something that's become a big part of the Be Tempered mission. Patreon. Now, if you've never used it before, Patreon is a platform where we can build community together. It's not just about supporting the podcast, it's about having a space where we can connect on a deeper level, encourage one another, and walk this journey of faith, resilience, and perseverance side by side. Here's how it works. You can join as a free member and get access to daily posts, behind the scenes updates, encouragement, and some things I don't always put out on other platforms. And if you feel called to support the mission financially, there are different levels where you can do that too. That support helps us keep producing the podcasts, creating gear, hosting events, and sharing stories that we believe can truly impact lives. And here's the cool part. Patreon has a free app you can download right on your phone. It works just like Facebook or Instagram, but it's built specifically for our community. You'll be able to scroll through posts, watch videos, listen to content, and interact with others who are on the same journey. At the end of the day, this isn't just about content, it's about connection. It's about building something together. Not just me and Ben putting out episodes, but a family of people committed to growing stronger through real stories and real faith. So whether you just want to hop on as a free member or you feel called to support in a bigger way, Patreon is the door into that community. Because at the heart of Be Tempered has always been simple real stories, raw truth, resilient faith, so that even one person out there that hears what they need to hear, and Patreon helps make that possible.

SPEAKER_06 2:09

Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we explore the art of finding balance in a chaotic world.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, practical tips, and inspiring stories to help you navigate life's ups and downs with grace and resilience.

SPEAKER_06 2:22

We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Sparr. Let's embark on a journey to live our best lives.

Episode 99 And Guest Welcome

SPEAKER_03 2:28

This is Be Tempered.

SPEAKER_06 2:30

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, episode number 99. 99. Hey, that reminds me. Next episode is Episode, let's see your name.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

100.

SPEAKER_06 2:45

Good math, man.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 2:46

We have something special in store.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

We do. Very special. It's gonna be big.

SPEAKER_06 2:51

Big, huge, huge.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Right, John?

SPEAKER_06 2:56

Hey, but episode 100 is coming up next week. It is uh it's an exciting time for us. Not sure I really anticipated that we would get there.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Nope. No, 52 was the main goal. Let's see if we can do it a year. That's what we originally said.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

So and we're gonna hit 100.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 3:14

But today's guest is someone many people in our community know, respect, and admire. Not just for the role she's held, but for the way she lives her life. Cindy Lee is married to her husband, Eric, and is a proud mother of two sons. For many years, she has served our community in quiet but meaningful ways, working with individuals who are trying to rebuild their lives after making mistakes, serving as a local school board member, helping guide the future of our schools, and consistently showing up for others with a true servant's heart. But many but behind that life of service is a personal journey that has tested her in ways many people may not realize. Cindy has faced the challenge of being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, a diagnosis that at one point felt overwhelming and all-consuming. But somewhere along the way, she made a decision that would change everything. Instead of allowing that diagnosis to define her, she chose to redefine what her life could look like. And that decision set her on a path of resilience, transformation, and personal growth. Her story also includes seasons of life that challenged her deeply. Moments that forced her to reevaluate who she was, where she was going, and what truly mattered. At one point, she experienced a career transition that didn't work out the way she hoped, leaving her in one of the lowest places she had ever faced. But through those difficult chapters, Cindy kept moving forward. Today she's not only living a full life, she's becoming stronger, healthier, and more focused than ever through a powerful shift in mindset and a personal wellness journey that continues to unfold. This is a conversation about resilience, identity, service, and what it means to keep moving forward even when life tries to slow you down. Cindy Lee, welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

I thank you. That was very nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:19

Well, we had a conversation a couple weeks ago. And I didn't really know what to expect. But I knew a bit of your story, but I didn't know the depth of it. And what came from that conversation was very powerful. And it's an amazing story. And I am grateful that you have taken the time to come up here today to share it with others.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Thank you. And that means a lot. Like I said earlier, I know your brother. I didn't really know you. I knew you on Facebook. You know, I that was about it. So I wasn't sure what you exactly really knew about me. So thank you.

Small Town Childhood And Belonging

SPEAKER_06 5:56

Yeah. Well, thank you again. This is um there's there's a lot to your story. And um, you know, the the coolest thing for me is from the outside looking in, you know, I always saw you as a school board member. You kind of see you everywhere I would go for a national trail event, you would be there. Um, but when you really get down to the meat and potatoes of your your story growing up and the battles that you've faced, it is amazing to see your heart. And that's what I gained the most from our conversation is how caring of a woman that you are for not only for your family, but your community. So I'm excited for others to hear your story and your journey. And you know how we like to start every podcast is from the beginning. So if you would talk about what life was like for you growing up as a kid.

Moving For Love And Starting Over

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Um, life for me grew up in Southeast Ohio, a small little town, Nelsonville. Uh well, my I actually live in Bookdown. So to hear, like, you know, New Paris is El Redo, West Manchester. Nelsonville is the main town. Um, we're brown and orange, we're the Nelsonville York Buckeyes. Uh fantastic community, amazing community. Um, so I feel like I have a life here and I have a life back home because I still have, you know, my life back home. Um, but yeah, grew up with a wonderful childhood, great parents. Um, I have a brother that's seven years older than me. I was the annoying little sister. Um he has five children, uh, five girls. My brother Heath is five years older than me. Uh, he has two daughters. I have the only boys. So the savage name never lived on, uh, except Cooper's a Cooper Savage, but um, a Cooper Savage Lee. Um, but yeah, growing up was I lived in a small little cul-de-sac. I had amazing neighbors. Uh the neighbors beside me were my bonus parents. They were my parents' best friends. And growing up, they were, you know, extra parents to me. Um, I remember my mom telling stories when I was younger. I would they couldn't find me in the mornings and say they would call Mary Jane and Jimmy and say, Yep, there, she's here. She's in our bed. Um, so growing up with bonus parents were wonderful. Um, my best friend lived, um, there was a house in between it, in between us. So her and I would rent, we had a path in their front yard that we wore down from constantly walking back and forth from her house to my house. Had wonderful uh friends growing up, wonderful girlfriends, guy friends. We had a super close class. Um, my two, my three best friends basically stayed at my house every weekend. My mom fed us, provided a place for us to be girls. Um, but yeah, my brothers being older than me and me being the young girl, um, I was pretty much a tomboy, you know. Um, but I cheered all my life, uh, from Pee-wee on competitively with my best friends. Um, my parents weren't big fans of cheerleading. They wanted me in sports because my brothers were big athletes and uh I was Chad and Heath's little sister everywhere I went. Um but again, great community, just like here, just like at National Trail, wonderful community. I said, I have bled brown and orange all my life, literally, you know. Um, but yeah, my bonus mother was also my junior high cheer coach. So it was great to connect with her because again, my mom, she they went to every single cheer competition, but you know, we went to nationals every year in Florida. We won state several times, we traveled all over and did these cheer competitions. Um, so it was fun. Um let's see. And then my junior year of high school, my dad got transferred in his job. So we had to move 30 miles away. And that was devastating. You know, I had to leave my community and well, I didn't. I stayed. What did I do? I moved next door in with Mary Jane and Jimmy. They had two boys, so Jimmy made me a room of my own. Their boys were grown and gone, but clearly still in in in mint and the in boy. Um, so he made me a room for myself and I stayed with them and lived with them, but um traveled back and forth, you know, and where my parents moved to, they still live currently. So they still live there, um, which was in Meggs County. Um, again, about a 30-minute drive from Nelsonville. Um, it was fun because, or funny, my senior year, my principal gave me study hall for the for um first period. So that if I stayed the night with mom and dad, I could come in late. You know, like back then they they did those things. Um, but yeah, so my junior year, parents moved, still stayed with Mary Jane and Jimmy, but you know, my family dynamic never changed. You know, my my oldest brother, he was in the army at the time, and uh my brother Heath was at OU. So yes. Um but super close girlfriends growing up. We still communicate every single day to this day. We we every day. Every day. We Snapchat every day. We have a little group, you know. I call it my Southeast Ohio ladies, and uh, we Snapchat every day. Um, and I I say through Facebook and you know, social media. I was telling Sean this earlier. I feel like it has allowed me to stay connected with my community back home too, because super close community back home, not just my mom and dad, but the entire community of Nelsonville, I'm full support of them, you know, at all times and your family, friends, things like that. Um but also back then, when you graduated high school, you could go to Hawking College for free if you were, you know, in a within a surrounding school. So of course I went to Hawking College because there was no way I was gonna go to a big school, you know. Um back then, I feel like I was not a very I was super happy in my little bubble. I didn't be involved in a big school like OU, because that would have been real 15 minutes down the road, would have been really easy for me to go to. But I've always said too, it's unfair to ask an 18-year-old what they want to do for the rest of their life. I knew I wanted to help kids because I always had a passion for I I'm I was always everybody's friend. I was always nice to everybody in class. I didn't care about your background or judge you. I was always gonna smile and say hi and, you know, be pleasant. But going to a big school would have was really, you know, I that was of no interest of mine. So I went to Hawking College. I took uh juvenile corrections, and um that is where I met my husband in my last, uh, my last year of school. We met through a mutual friend, a friend that I had grown up with, met through a mutual friend. And uh, I always tell the story when I first met Eric through my friend, she introduced us, and then um I saw him again for a second time. And uh I was with my mom at our local Kroger's. And I'm like, mom, this is John, and this is um, I can't remember your name. And that's who I ended up marrying. Nice. But yeah, um, and it was um after that, it was uh Christmas. And my I lived and at college, I lived with my best friend, Angie, the one who I said lived across the uh there was a house in between us. Her and I lived together in a small, adorable little house on our grandparents on our grandma's property. And um it was funny, Angie really liked this guy and she really wanted to go out with the with this guy, and she'd been waiting on him to ask her out, you know, for a long time. And it's Christmas, we've got a blizzard, and we live up on this hill. And when you go to Southeast Ohio, there's hills. Yeah. I mean, it's it's hills everywhere. Big adjustment when I moved to Preble County. And uh, I'm like, who do I know with the truck and chains I could get her out? Because I really need to get her to go to this breakfast date, you know. And I'm like, I'll call Eric. I'm I'm I think he's here. So I called him. We have literally been together every day since.

unknown 14:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

And she's married to Dave, who she went to breakfast with that morning today. What a day. What a day. Absolutely. A lot of a lot of love. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I always love to share that story because I felt like that was my my beginning of you know, bringing me here to Prebel County. And I really truly, when I moved here in 1999 is when I moved here. So Eric and I met in three months. We we were we met. We were engaged in three months and we were married within a year. That was 27 years ago. You know? And um when I moved to Preble County, the thought of leaving my community, leaving my parents was devastating, you know. And I didn't know anybody when I moved here. I I mean, I I I knew nobody. And I love people and people fuel me, you know, people feed my soul. And uh, so that was really hard. So Eric and I graduate, we graduate hockey. Uh, we we moved to Purble County. Um, we buy the the house that Eric has lived in since he was 12. We bought the house from his his mother. And uh again, I didn't know anybody. I was scary.

SPEAKER_06 15:56

Yeah, I'm sure.

Juvenile Probation And Accountability

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Yeah. Um but um he at the time worked at the uh jail, at the Purble County jail and introduced me to Jennifer Pettit. Well, that story's, you know, she's my best friend, she's my ride or die, she's my everything. Um, first person I met. So Eric is, you know, uh responsible for that that friendship, that lifelong friendship. But she, you know, she was my person. So then um, so when actually when I moved here and Debbie Trump knew that I was going through a difficult time, and Debbie's son, Bret, is best friends with my husband. And Debbie's like, Cindy, why don't you why don't you cheer, why don't you coach cheerleading at Trail? And I'm like, what do I know about coaching cheerleading? I mean, like, I know how to be a cheerleader, but I don't know anything about coaching. And I don't know anybody, you know? So I thought, oh, why not? So I applied to coach uh junior high cheerleading at National Trail. That was in '99. And uh I coached from '99 till 2004 at Trail. Met some spectacular people. Um, still have connections with a lot of those girls to this day. Um, and um, coaching was so rewarding, but I was so young. Um, and so so we married in 2000, and Hunter was born, our first child was born in 2001. So I was a young mom. Eric worked at second shift at the jail. You know, you felt like a single mom, you know, he was tag you're it, you know, you're you're in. Um so coaching what it had its obstacles as a young mom. Um, but um the Daringer family, Mike Daringer, he was he was just a young tyke at the time. His mom Lisa took me right under her wing. Um, but uh so after coaching um at Trail in 2004, I started working at um Preble County Juvenile Court uh for Judge Dews as a probation officer. Um what an amazing job that is. Um why so um you know sometimes people just don't know what goes among other people's four walls in their home. And I found purpose in working with these kids, you know. Um a lot of the kids, so I I ended up doing that for 17 years with juvenile probation officers for 17 years, and it taught me to be a better me, you know, um, to listen. Again, no judgment, but um, it was just extremely rewarding connecting with kids. And I remember, you know, when when a kid would come on probation and and uh he would say, I I would go over his his conditions, his terms, you know, his rules. I call them the bread and butter, you know. And I would say, you know, this is your do's and your don'ts. You know, I'm not gonna play a chess game. You're gonna know my move every single time. These are your rules, these are expectations. Number one priority, go to school. School is your top priority. That's what comes first. No excuse of any absences. Um, and then just building rapport with these kids and uh was important. Um you know, they want to feel heard. Um they want I wouldn't say, you know, like they want to feel loved by me. I wouldn't, I wasn't saying that. I'm just saying that I feel like they want to feel heard and um you know they want they want somebody to care about them. Yeah, yeah. Invest in their day, you know, and invest in their day. So yeah, that was I started that in 2004. Um, so I had lived here, you know, five years by that time. By that time, I had a plethora of beautiful people in my life from from this community. So uh that was grand. And then meeting people through the job, you know, that lived in other communities as well. But um I absolutely loved that work. And I worked specifically with kids that are at risk to use drugs and alcohol. That was um pretty much the tailored probation that I would do. Um, some of those kids I still have relationships with today. Um, the one girl, she lives in Chilla Coffee, her and I check on each other regularly. She actually surprised, surprised me in the fall and came to visit me. And then another one her and I meet uh pretty regularly for dinner or for coffee. She's living a great life. And um, so I did build relationships, you know, but I always did have boundaries. You know, there's healthy boundaries as as well in that job. But, you know, just these kids, they want you to invest in their day and and um hold them accountable. You know, it's surprising how many kids really do want you to hold them accountable.

SPEAKER_06 21:15

Um well, and into, you know, Ben and I talk about it a lot. Discipline is love. Yeah. And a lot of these kids, you know, the discipline they might receive or not receive it could be pretty harsh.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:30

But discipline in the right setting is love to those kids and they respond well to that. So that, you know, when you're holding them accountable, yeah, I think that's that's where you probably had that connection. How do you separate that as a young mom going to work? You're knowing these kids' stories. Some of them, I'm sure, are very, very difficult for you to hear and to comprehend. How do you separate that when you go home?

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Yeah, so that was hard because I I always said I I have empathy and and and sympathy, but I've never walked in your shoes. You know, I had amazing parents growing up, you know, great siblings and friends. I didn't have hardship growing up, you know. So but you can have you can have empathy, you know. Um so trying to connect with these kill kids, build relationships with them. It's funny, my husband would always tell me, do your eight and hit the gate. He worked at the jail with adults, you know, adults. I worked with kids, and that was so hard for me to do because I know I knew I was going to go home to a great husband and great kids. And but the kids that I worked with from eight to four didn't have, you know, maybe a parent invest in their day and ask them, you know, how their day was, or you know, really even sit down and have dinner together, you know. Um, so I felt like Eric helped keep me um real and and because there I think there was times I could probably have brought a kid home.

SPEAKER_06 23:22

Yeah. Yeah. That would that would be the hardest thing, I think.

Early MS Signs And Diagnosis

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Yeah. And yeah. So trying to give them the best tools to a believe in themselves, you know. Uh you are somebody, you are important. You can do, you can be anything you want to be. Don't let your family history write your future. You know, you can be, you know, endless, anything you want to be. Just believe in yourself. And, you know, I did several years ago lose one of the juveniles that I had. She was an adult. This is several years ago. She had had passed away of an overdose. And that one hit me really hard. I, I mean, I really saw great potential in her, people, skills, just beautiful inside now. And when I had learned of her her passing, I thought, oh, she never, she never got it. She never believed in herself, you know. But the the girl that I I still speak to in Chilli Coffee, her name's Mary. And uh I always lectured her and told her. And I'm telling you, we had some battles. I mean, we had battles. I would put her in detention. I had her on the ankle monitor. I, you know, there there would be times when she wouldn't be in school and I'd call Camden PD and I'd say, hey, Mary's still at home. Are you not doing anything right now? Could you, could you maybe go pick her up and take her to school? And and they, those were the judge do's days, you know. And uh, so, anyways, um always just preach to her, you are somebody, believe in yourself, you know. Um, and still to this day, I, you know, we go over that. Finally, you believe in yourself, finally, you know, she's uh five years clean and just rocking life. So, but yeah, so I started that journey, that juvenile journey 2004. We had Cooper in 2005, um, which was um um a blessing. He, you know, great kid, two boys. God gave me boys for a reason. Um, I don't know if how good of a mom I would be to girls. I I make a great cheerleader, but um, yeah, I I'm I'm a boy mom. I'm a boy mom for sure. I said I have adoptive girls, you know, but I'm a boy mom. But yeah, Cooper was born in 05. Um and then right right after Cooper is when I started experiencing just some odd things uh uh among my body. I started noticing some odd numbness and tingling. And um, so Cooper was born October, and then this happened like um immediately after I had had him, is when I started this feeling. Well, then in two thousand, then in February of 2006 is when I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, right after Cooper. I kind of noticed um like I had a C-section. So my my stomach was really numb, my hand, my right hand was really numb. Like I couldn't, I couldn't hold things, I couldn't like set things down. Cognitive thinking was off. Um just things were not right, you know. My I remember my handwriting was really off. And I remember Judge Dew saying, Cindy, are you okay? Because, you know, your your signature's terrible, you know? And I'm like, I lost it. I said, no, Judge, I'm not okay. Something something is wrong. Um like I would be in the bathtub and I would put my feet under the under the water, and I couldn't feel whether that water was hot or cold on my feet. Like I just I did I didn't know temperature was just weird. And I was just so tired, just aggressively tired. Hunter's five, Cooper's newborn baby, you know, trying to tell my husband, like, something's off really bad. Um went to my um my OBGYN doctor, because I was I was thinking it was related, you know, to the C-section. And he was like, Yeah, I don't know. So something's off. So I'm gonna refer you to a neurologist. So went to the neurologist, and that was an experience. And and I went uh into the door. Uh so here I have like Cooper in a in a pumpkin seat. I've got sweet little Hunter, five, just you know, loves his mommy. And uh I got this husband scared to death, you know, what's going on. And uh he's like, well, because I had at the time what was called El Hermites, which is like when you drop your chin down, feels like you stuck your finger in a light socket. Like it was, yeah. So like I couldn't tie Hunter's shoes because you know, naturally you drop your chin. So every time I tie his shoes, like, oh, there's a jolt. Um things were just really off. So he says, he comes into the into the room, telling him everything. He's like, Well, you've either had a mess or you have a stroke. Like, oh, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 28:56

That's that's his bedside manner.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Well, it was it was cold. It was really cold. It was really rude and rough, you know. Um, it's difficult. So ordered MRIs and I did um MRIs of my brain of my spinal cord. Um, that was in January. Went went back to him in February, and that's when he had told me, Yeah, yeah, you have multiple sclerosis. And it's my understanding, it's really rare for somebody to be diagnosed as quickly as I was diagnosed. But I I had lesions on my brain and on my spinal cord. And that L. hermites, I think, was uh an easy thing to diagnose as well. But yeah, uh lesions on my brain and on my spinal cord. And um, wow.

SPEAKER_06 29:50

How did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Uh my life was over. My life was over. I thought to myself, I am 20, yeah, 26 years old, 20, 28. I was 28, 28 years old, two kids, husband. I mean, and as a kid, you dream about being the best mom and wife you can be, you know. I mean, that that'd be the greatest joy. And that was just an absolutely devastating blow of I'm gonna be in a wheelchair, I'm not gonna be able to, you know, uh be there for my kids in sports. Um I can't be the best wife I can be to my husband. Like it was, I took that news so hard. Um, you know, naturally my family, my parents just, yeah, right there with me in my brain of, oh my God, this is completely devastating, you know. Um, I remember going, so my sister-in-law, she had, when Eric and I got together at the time, she was living in um Hershey, Pennsylvania, and had moved to Voorhees, New Jersey when Eric and I had bought the house from his mother. So his mom moved to Voorhees, New Jersey with his sister. That was 99, 2000. And then they had actually moved back here in 2003. Wonderful. Sister-in-law, best human on the planet. Everybody needs an Aunt Robbie's. So she um watched my kids all the time for me. And uh so the kids were at her house, and I remember that ride home with Eric. I mean, we were just shocked, you know. Um and I remember walking into her family room and just telling her, and all of us just feeling like and looking at my kids, like this, I can't be the mom I want to be. Um, yeah, it was I think in my mind I went to the worst places.

SPEAKER_06 31:58

Uh so for those that don't know, what what is MS?

SPEAKER_02 32:04

So MS multiple sclerosis is a nerve. Um, it's an autoimmune disease. No one in my family has it. Um, but I always say, like, imagine your finger is your nerve and you have a blanket called a mylene sheath that protects every nerve in your body. And so the deep disease, the autoimmune disease, eats away at wherever on your brain or spinal cord, you know, eat eats that myelin sheath away, exposing a hole. That's the lesion. Everybody with MS has similar but yet different symptoms. Not everybody is this, not everybody's case is the same. It's everybody's is it's different. Um, what what I may struggle with, somebody else doesn't struggle with, or vice versa. So, you know, it's great to talk with somebody uh who has MS and you know you share your stories, you know, um, but you don't always have the similar same symptoms, but sometimes you do. But that exposes. So I have lesions again on my brain and on my spinal cord, and depending on where your lesions are, is what it affects for you. So um I have occasional blurred vision um in and out. Uh I try to really not get tired. I try to, because I really struggle struggle struggle with severe fatigue. Um, that is my biggest battle is the fatigue. I have to make sure I get enough good sleep. Because if not, my next day, I'm gonna, my cognitive thinking's going to be off. I'm gonna just, you know, I call it phone in the fridge, milk in the cupboard. I can do some stupid stuff, you know. Ooh, yeah. Um, but my family is very aware of that, you know. Um, I have numbness in my right hand sometimes when I'm really hot. So um I cannot take heat. Heat is not a friend to me. So if we could just keep Ohio at about 70, I'd be good. Um yeah, I can't do heat makes me numb and dumb. I get, I get really uh I struggle um mentally, like just cognitively with heat and steps. So trying trying to work steps, but cannot do heat. So, you know, um, yeah, and then cold, cold hurts me. Like it just hurts. It's like I couldn't play out in the snow with my kids because that would it would just it would just be bad. Um, but the heat is probably my uh absolute enemy for sure.

SPEAKER_06 34:51

So you're given this diagnosis.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Did it have anything to do? Like you said, it happened right after pregnancy is when it like started happening. Does is that normal or so?

SPEAKER_02 35:00

I was told and I've been told and I've read too that like a traumatic event to the body, so MS can lay dormant in your body for years and you not even know it, and then you had a traumatic event then that exacerbated it and and then you know, woke it up.

SPEAKER_07 35:19

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

So for me, um, my C-section with Cooper was pretty traumatic. Um, I actually didn't get a scene for like 24 hours. I had a really high, super high fever after birth. And uh, so I mean, that's really the only thing we can attribute it to. So, but he was a super healthy baby, you know. Yeah, not nothing, nothing affected him. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Imagine without the fever and everything, C-section is a dramatic thing anyway.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Depression After Diagnosis And Support

SPEAKER_06 35:50

Yeah, yeah. So you receive that diagnosis, you feel like life's over.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

I do.

SPEAKER_06 35:57

What do you do?

Finding Purpose Through School Board

SPEAKER_02 35:59

So, um for probably the next three, four years, I fell into deep depression. I feel sorry for myself. Um I am trying medication because at the time when I was first diagnosed, the at the time there was only four medicines that you could take for multiple sclerosis, and they were all injections. I tried them all. I was allergic to one. Uh, and the others just I felt like I had the flu all the time. And I mean, I worked full-time. Eric worked second shift. Um, my sister-in-law was my savior. I mean, I would, the boys would be at her house, they'd get off the bus, or, you know, well, Cooper was young, but Hunter would get off the bus at her house and she'd have Cooper. I'd get to her house after work and she'd say, I got dinner, got the boys, go lay down. You know, because I I would need to like recharge myself after a full day of work. Not that my job was strenuous and, you know, um, it was a, I mean, it's more or less a desk job, but just it was mentally exhausting, you know. So I would go to her house and chill out for a little while and take the boys home and baths. And I'd say I'd I joke and say, you know, I parented out of bed for the first several years of poor Cooper's life, you know, and like said Hunter was five and really took on being a five-year-old and taking care of mom and little brother, you know. I mean, and how unfair was that? But I mean, he took it like a champ. Um, and I I do, I think too, that is also what has helped. My boys are best friends. They are one another's people, you know. And I feel like they just they grew up so close, um, caring for them, you know, each other and and and and me. Um, but yeah, my sister-in-law was was huge. And then, and then too, you know, my husband worked second shift and he worked this, you know, four on, two off. I mean, he worked these crazy schedules at the jail. And he had to take on so much responsibility because I just couldn't do. I couldn't do the simple tasks of, you know, cleaning the bathroom, doing the laundry and all of that and feeding the family. And my my boys, they just told this story a while ago. Like they they joke about mom, you know, boiling hot dogs. And like we had boiled hot dogs, you know, versus grilling a hot dog or whatever. They've was joking about that. But yeah, I I just for the first three or four years, I just lived in trying to figure out my medication, learning my body, learning my do's and don'ts, feeling sorry for myself, you know. Um, I wasn't I wasn't coaching at the time because like I said, I had left coaching in 2004. But however, in 2008, a friend of mine, girlfriend of mine from Prabhuposhawnee reached out to me. She needed a cheer coach for JV, three months, just basketball season. You can bring the boys, like, you know, and again, this was two years after the diagnosis. And I'm like, I think I need to do this. I really do. She's like, you know, because from my house to Prabhuposhawnee, that's a good 35-minute drive. You can bring the boys, you know, whatever you need, whatever you need. And uh, I'm so glad I did it because still to this day, I have great relationships with those girls that I coached. And we just went to get to dinner together Friday night. Um, but I I loved my time coaching at Prabhoshani. They were great people. Um, but I feel like, you know, that kind of helped me uh in a stage of where I was in, you know, in depression. And uh, and again, I I can't, I can't not give props to my husband, my sister-in-law, my friends. I mean, they're the ones who helped me get through all that, you know, my my family, my family back home. Like when I would go home, my mom would be like, just go lay in my bed, you know, whatever you need. What do you want to eat? You know, um, take take the boys. It's funny, when when I would go home, well, uh, when the boys were younger, I would laugh and I'd be like, I'm not their mother because they want grandma for everything. Grandma do everything. So um, I had amazing people around me. And then I I promise you, one day it just clicked. It just clicked in me. Like, what are you doing? Get up. Why are you feeling sorry for yourself? Like, come on, you know, the world doesn't stop for Cindy Lee. You just keep on trucking, girl. You got this, you can do it, you know. And and in 2008 was that was that time too where um I ran for school board, you know. Um actually, funny story about that was Roger Forsoffel, great friend of ours, um, said, Cindy, there's a position um out at the school on the school board. There's a gentleman who's moving out of the district on the board, and they're filling his seat. You should apply for that seat. Well, at the same time, I had this, I had this one girl, I'm not gonna name what school she went to, but she had an IEP, an individualized education plan. I had her opponent, and um, she was 18 years old and she only had four credits. I'm like, come on now. We need to do better than that, school-wise, yeah, not girl. Like, I considered this a school problem. And they were taking away her IEP. She was 18, she had four credits, and they were taking away her IEP. And I'm like, oh, so I feel like when I did juvenile probation, school, school, school, school was my number one with these kids. I mean, I just had no room for D's and Fs. It was C, it was Caesar Better kids. We can do this. So that hit me. And I'm like, you know what, Roger? Yeah, if it's going on in one school, is it going on in any other schools? Because these kids need a voice. These kids need somebody to educate, you know, like advocate for their education, you know? Because honestly, like we are our kids' best advocates, right? Um, but honestly, if you're if as a parent, if you are not invested in your kids' education, you don't know, but you don't know. You're thinking your kids are going to school every day and you know, everything's hunky-dory. Well, I thought to myself, no way. This is a perfect time. I'm I'm doing this. I'm going, so I applied, I interviewed among the other four board members and the superintendent and the treasurer at the time. And uh I got I got the job. So I got on the board. That was in 2000, that was in 2008. I I spent one, I had to finish out her term for one year, and then I had ran for the board then after that. But um, so yeah, like just coaching chili was just that three-month period and then full blast with the with the school board and still rocking the juvenile probation stuff, but learned a lot. I mean, being and and I served, so I just finished my last term, December 31st of 2025 was my last term. I didn't run again, but we'll get into that. I'll I'll tell you why. But that was the most rewarding, spectacular thing in my life. I mean, I loved it. Um, I feel like it really helped get me out of that funk of feeling. Sorry, like having a purpose, yeah, you know. And I really did wake up one day and it just snapped in my brain of stop feeling sorry for yourself. This is only hurting your kids and your husband. You know, like you can do better. So I felt like from that moment, and then I finally got on um on a decent med that, you know, that I that I could take. So MS-wise, once I learned my do's and my don'ts, learned my body, you know, I figured I got to figure that out. That took several years, but it took time. But once I finally figured that out, um, you know, that I needed to go to bed at seven or eight o'clock at night, that, you know, like most, like my husband can vote, you know, he can four hours of sleep. I'm like no less than eight, you know. Um, and just fueling my my my body, staying uh I'm temperature diva. I am a temperature diva. Um, and but learning that, you know, um, I take an electric blanket with me about everywhere I go. So um yeah, just kind of rocking life at that time.

SPEAKER_06 45:14

Yeah. So I mean, it's interesting that you just wake up one day and decide, all right, this is enough. And then in conjunction with that, you become a member of the school board, which to me terrifies me. Because that's in a lot of cases, that's a thankless job. Yeah. Yeah. But uh, you know, you look at it as a purpose.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 45:36

And I think that's important for everyone out there, no matter what you're dealing with. If you can figure out what your purpose is, it'll fix a lot of things in your life. Yeah. And uh that's that's I think that's a unique for you that that both of those things kind of happen at the same time. Yeah. It's pretty cool. So now you're on the school board, now you've you've you've got MS kind of figured out how to manage it, how to maintain it. Um, you're coming out of that rut. Yeah. And you're still working for the juvenile court system.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 46:06

Life's going on, boys are growing, family's doing good. Now you've got a clear path ahead of you.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:13

Right? Yeah. So talk about what's next for you.

Head On Crash And Survivor Guilt

SPEAKER_02 46:16

So, like I said, that was 2008 when my, you know, flipped um rocking life for several years. Like you said, boys are growing up. We're in sports and living that pee-wee pee-wee life, which was so much fun. Um, more relationships are building and growing with people in the community. Um, you know, I have the most spectacular friends in my life here in Pruble County. I have uh three best friends who just are tremendous people. And, you know, when I talk relationships, I talk relationships with I am intentional in my relationship with you. You know, I'm going to smile at you. I am going to wish you a great day. I'm going to open the door for you. I am going to invest in you as a person, you and your family. And I want to know what makes you tick, you know? So yeah, I'm I'm riding life out. Um, I'm growing relationships with people. And, you know, Eric's still at the jail. And um, we do fun things with friends, and uh, our kids are connecting with my friends as kids, and we're all growing up together, right? I can't go home as often because my kids are involved. So I can't, my parents are coming up. My brother lives in Cleveland, my other brother lives in Circleville. I mean, like we are just, you know, we're everywhere. So um, let's jump to 2013. So 2013, Hunter's in the sixth grade, Cooper's in first grade. Um, I have finally got, you know, a handle on my MS. I'm on a medicine that's just, I'm, it's working for me. And the thing about MS medication is it does not heal you. It does not, the only purpose of MS medicine is it slows down the growth process of current lesions. It doesn't prevent any new lesions from growing. Um, it just slows down the growth process. So I'm um, you know, making sure I get sleep. Eric's helping me in the house. I mean, I like to run a very tight ship in my house. I say even a pencil has its place, you know? So I couldn't do that without, without him, you know, and my boys just helping one another, you know. And again, I'll go back to parenting out of bed in the beginning. I said I I raised my boys on Star Wars, The Godfather, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings. I mean, we we we we watched a lot of TV in in that bed together, you know? Um so yeah, but yeah, it's 2013. Um Eric a month, so let's go April 2013. Um, Eric gets a job opportunity for uh Dart County Board of DD, uh doing computers, which is, you know, that that's his thing. He he is a computer nerd and I love that about him. But um, you know, so he goes out of the jail and he go, he moves, makes the move to Dark County Board of DD to take care of their IT and their PR stuff. Uh so let's let's talk about May 13th of 20 uh 23, 2013. Um, I'm putting Cooper on the bus again, last day of first grade. Okay. Hunter's already at school, but it is uh last day of first grade for Coop. And uh put him on the bus, and I'm like, crap, I forgot to put deodorant on. So I run back inside, I put deodorn on, get in my car, and I take the same route. I am uh rinse and repeat, I like repetition, you know. Uh, and take the same route to work every day. And uh I'm not sure if you're familiar with the with Monroe Central. So Monroe Central is right right behind my house. So in between El Dorado and West Manchester, so 127, 726. I live live off of I'm on Holtz Miller. And uh, so I take Monroe Central into Eton to go to work. Well, you cross over the bypass, the overpass on 70 there. And just as I uh I'm I'm on the bridge uh on the overpass, and a car is coming head on to me. Um, so I'm on the bridge, he's coming on the bridge, and he's not looking, he's not paying attention, and I know he's gonna hit me and he's gonna hit me hard because he's going fast. And I thought to myself, I'm dying. I'm I'm not gonna, you know. And I, and what I'm about to tell you is you're gonna think, how was she able to have this many thoughts in a nanosecond from the time of that impact? But I'm telling you, I had the thoughts. The thoughts of he's gonna hit me head on, I'm gonna die. My kids are gonna be raised without a mother. My father, my, my uh husband is not gonna have a wife. Uh, just my husband's father was killed when he was 12 by uh by a semi accident there at a um 127 and 70 there uh at the truck stop. And I mean, thinking of that, my husband's gonna lose a wife in a car accident. He had already lost his father at 12, raised him, you know, raised himself. Well, with the Trumps and anyways, but I had all these thoughts in my head, like, oh my, oh my goodness, I'm I'm gonna die. I am going to die. So my car goes up, it hits the fence. There's still a dent in the fence to this day, and then my car sits down. And the the person that hit me, his car is facing me, facing my my driver's side door. So my passenger rear tire hits the fence. I go that high up. And I'm I'm thinking, oh my goodness, I'm I'm dead, you know. Well, there's smoke in the car. I'd never been in a car accident before, so I didn't know that airbags had, you know, smoke in them. So this powder in them. And so, you know, there's powder in the in the sky in the air. And I'm thinking, you know, my legs have got to be trapped. Like he hit me so hard. Well, I wasn't. I wasn't trapped, nothing was broke. Um, but I passed the same guy every single day. I mean, again, I would put Cooper on the bus, I would head to Eton, same route, same time every single day. You pass the same people every day on your rent and repeat routine, right? So um I thought, you know, Mr. Weaver, he hasn't, I haven't passed him yet. He's he's probably gonna come up on me, you know. And I look over and and I can see, you know, blood on the windshield of of the car that just hit me. And in my mind, I'm thinking, this is National Trail School District. I'm still in the district. This is probably somebody I know. Oh my goodness. I'm, ooh, you know, like it's the last day of school. He, this person probably wasn't in school because maybe, you know, they school's out for the seniors or, you know. And so, anyways, Mr. Weaver comes up to my car and I can't roll my window down. There's nothing. And he, I was like, I've called 911. I'm I'm fine. I'm, you know, I'm I'm good. And um, so he walks away. And yeah, I called 911 and I, you know, I just remembered because I mean, you know, being in my field, you talk to dispatch often, you know, when you have warrants for kids and things. And so, anyways, I had um said, you know, Terry, this is this is Cindy Lee. I've been hit head on. I'm on Monroe Central. Um, and I she knew Eric from working in the jail. And I'm like, he's gonna freak out. You know, he already lost his father to an accident, you know, that he is going to freak out. Please tell him I I'm okay. I'm okay. Don't go 100 miles per hour to get to me. I am all right. So I hung up the phone with Terry and I'm I'm sitting there. And um, Darren Wethington is the state trooper that arrives on scene. And Darren and my husband, you know, went to school together, went to write state together. You know, I mean, I knew, okay. I'm in say Darren got in the car with me. And uh, I'm like, call Eric. Call, call, call him, make sure he knows that I am okay. Don't rush to me. So Darren gives Eric a call. And then, you know, we're just he's trying to keep me calm because I'm I'm really at first, you know, you're you're like in um shock. Yeah. I'm in just in total shock. And then, well, so Jennifer, my best friend, she worked in the jail. Well, they had let her, she had worked midnight, so she was she arrived on scene first. She had had got there, and then Eric had got there. Um, and then um Jaws of Life had to cut me out of the car, um, which was I I always say he's my he's my angel. Um, and that is uh Mr. Wilson, um, Nick Wilson, which you know, we knew we knew him. I I said it was so wonderful because Darren was in this year, you know, Nick's in this year outside of the car, you know, because again, never been on a car accident before. And I know what's sitting across from me is not is not good. And, you know, the thought of being involved in somebody's death. I didn't know at that time if he was dead or alive. I didn't know, but I knew it wasn't good. Um that was that was tough. Um but yeah, I'm I'm in the I'm in the ambulance. Shelly Jordan, God savior too. She was uh running squad that day. So I had all these amazing people from my community who I loved and I knew they loved me, you know, um, with me. I had Darren, I had Nick Wilson, I had Jennifer, I had Eric, I had, you know, Shelly. And I remember focusing on a screw in the top of that ambulance, you know, just I'm trying to focus on that. I'm trying to talk myself through the gentleman who was in the car behind me. You know, just like, oh, that was heavy. That was really heavy because um I say I feel like I live my life with uh purpose and with um great integrity that's important to me. And I didn't want my legacy to be my story to be I was involved in someone's death. Someone's death was a part of my history. It was that was rough, you know. And uh for a long time, long time, I had severe survivor skill. I mean, I still think about that mom, you know, she's a mom. It's her child. He had friends, I'm sure. He had a family. Um but just knowing that you are a part of somebody's death.

SPEAKER_06 57:36

Even when it's not your fault.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

Even when it's not your fault, it's still really hard to wrap your brain around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 57:44

So how do you get through that?

SPEAKER_02 57:47

My husband, my kids, my family, my friends, my community, you know. Um, that year, so I'm on the board again, 2013. So I'd been several years on the board, built great relationships with community. I missed graduation. I had to miss passing out diplomas that that uh it was that evening. No, no, it was that next day. And I remember uh Bob Fisher was the principal at the time, and he'd be like, Your, your, it, your accident was that bad. You're you are going to miss graduation. I couldn't move. I mean, I had severe seatbelt bruises. My collarbone was bruised for years. Um, but the seatbelt bruises that I had and just the stiffness, the soreness of being hit, you know, at 60 miles per hour, you know, um, that really did take a toll on my body. Um but yeah, I missed miss passing out diplomas at graduation, and uh that was tough, you know. But I had said how I got through that was I have a purpose. I have a purpose in life. And uh though I had the survivor's guilt, like why me? Why, why, why did I get to live and and he died? You know. Um another click in the brain of you have a purpose in your life. God is not done with me. I have the purpose for my husband, my kids, and my community and the kids I serve in juvenile court from eight to four, you know. But again, hold these relationships accountable. I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna let these kids get away with things and and uh, you know, I always said I, you know, you parent with purpose, you know, um I'd say I don't spank and apologize. If I say, you know, you're gonna get your phone taken away, then for however long, I'm sticking to it. You can't clean my kitchen or my bathroom, make it up to me. You're gonna suffer the consequences for as long as I said, you know. But yeah, just just that survivor's guilt ate me alive. I mean, ate me alive for a long time. And I think I do, I think about that mom often. I think about her every holiday, every anniversary of the accident. And she passes my house occasionally because um though um they lived in El Dorado, I believe, you know, he went to a school, he was graduated, he was in his 20s, but he went to school somewhere uh in the Dark County area. But I mean, you know, you think about that person, you know, um, but that that was that's a part of my history. Yeah, it's a part of my legacy that um was hard.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:33

Well, life-changing for you and like you said, for that family. And I think that that goes back to your caring heart. Yeah, you know, it that that speaks to the type of of woman that you are, you know, and and to this point of your life, you know, look at all the things that you have done. Look at your career, look at your family, look at your friends, how intentional you are with people. And, you know, your your first thought goes to your kids not having a mom, your husband not having a wife, you know, going through all those things. You're not you're not thinking necessarily about yourself, you're thinking about others. Yeah. And that's that that's that servant leadership. Um, you know, being a member of the school board, all those things. That's uh that shows the kind of person that you are, which is which is awesome. So that happens. Life changes a little bit in your mind, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

Yeah, for sure. Um, because again, like I said, um, I mean, I I've always pretty much known of I've had a purpose in life, always be to be a good person. That that was just always important to me, even again, growing up, uh, middle school, high school, relationships were important to me, you know. Um I I think I get that from my father. My my dad is one of those uh people in life. He's 79 years old, but he has a spirit of a 25-year-old. Uh, he knows everybody, meets everybody, and shakes everybody. Everybody's important, you know, when when you meet him. And then the next time you see him, he's gonna make you feel like you've known him for 30 years, you know. And and so relationships are important and um just investing in people intentionally, you know, not for um a purpose to gain for yourself, you know, just to make others feel important and cared for, you know. Um, so yeah, after that accident, I I did slip back into some depression again of survivor's guilt, you know. Um, but my family didn't let me um, you know, succumb to that uh or or my friends or my family, you know. Um so eventually I got you know back on the um positive, you know, move forward life.

Career Change Into Sales Pressure

SPEAKER_06 1:02:59

And then at some point in time, you decide to make a career change.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

I did. So that was 2013. So um it's Hunter senior year, 2019. Uh a friend of mine approached me about a job opportunity. Um, you know, make more money, own your own schedule, um, in in sales. I dabbled a little bit of sales on the side uh with a couple things. And uh, and again, I like people, you know, people make me tick. I like to know what makes you tick. And and uh, and again, like I said, Hunter was a senior a senior, or he was graduating in 2019 and going into the Navy, and I thought, oh, more money, that'd be great, because we're probably gonna have to travel now with him being, you know, in the Navy. And, you know, um, so I did. I I chose to leave juvenile court after 17 years of being a probation officer. And uh I go and I go into sales. And um let's just say I'm not great at sales. Yeah, because if you're not interested in buying, then that's okay. Because, you know, then that's just on you, you know. I was not great at it. I did love um the connections that I made with customers and people. I mean, I enjoyed that, but let's face it, at the end of the day, it wasn't like, you know, selling the selling what I needed to sell, you know. I did that for three years. The first year was okay, but um, COVID happened. So, you know, again, Hunter graduates uh uh May of 2013. He joins the Navy uh in October of 2000. Did I say 13?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:54

Yeah, you meant 18.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

I meant I meant 19. 19. Sorry, yeah. Yeah, yes, 19.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:59

You need that color-coded capital.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

I know, I do, I do, I do. Listen, and that's part of the brain too. I write, I live off of post-it notes. Okay. I do, yeah. And uh, so yeah, it was 2019. So he joins the the Navy, and um right after that is when I'm, you know, this this gentleman friend approaches me about this job opportunity, and I'm thinking, okay, I I think I could do this. I mean, it's more money. It's what's best for my family, you know, own my own schedule. You know, you can earn trips, you can get bonuses, you know. Okay, what could be so bad? You know, well, little did I know I was bad. So yeah, the first year was so I left juvenile court February of 19, and then I had like 10 days off, and then I started this new job. And the first, and then you know, COVID happens, right? Um, that that was the 2020. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 20. And uh, so yeah, it was February of 2020. And I mean, I'm learning the job. And so, I mean, I'll tell you, I I sold fuel. And I mean, I'm I'm a girl. So, meaning like before that that job, I just put gas in my car. I never really thought about like where it came from, you know, in the process of refineries and you know what I mean? I didn't even think of that. So yeah, um, for the first year was rough because COVID and like people didn't want you. I mean, it was cold calling, you know, and my territory was huge. I mean, huge. And uh for me, you know, I mean, you would leave seven in the morning and, you know, hopefully make it home by five, but sometimes not till seven, or you know, dependent on where you were. So that first year was rough. I mean, really, really, really rough, but um, it was still just learning the job and getting that surface of customers, you know. And then that company ended up merging with another larger company. And then for me, it became very corporate, difficult. You couldn't make anybody happy, no matter I could have sold the moon, and that still wouldn't have been good enough. It was just that mentality. And so I felt like that job sucked my soul, you know. I left a job where it was reward. I wouldn't, I'm not, I'm not gonna say rewarding, but it was just, it was serving. And serving and helping is what fed my soul, you know? And that job just was so tough. It wasn't me. It wasn't what made me tick. I didn't like it. I did not like that time. And Cooper's in high school, you know, Hunter's in the Navy and California, deployment after then coming back, good employment. Him and Gracie, I have to tell you about his wife. She's an amazing human. I am so blessed with my boys and their girls and their lives. I am so, so blessed. So, but they get married in in February of 2020. And then that's I left. So I leave my job, they get married, and I start this new job all within like two weeks of each other. All within two weeks. Yeah. Big. Um, and then he, you know, he moves to California. You know, your your 19-year-old son and his beautiful wife, who are their junior high sweethearts, um, thank God he had her because she loves him and I know he's got to be well taken care of. But yeah, they get in a car and drive across country. You know, and I remember, you know, here in Preble County, I always say, We live at a bubble, Hunter. When you stop at a rest area, you make sure that gas is filled, you need not let her go to the bathroom alone, you put your head on a swivel, like, you know, because in Preble County, like I just have a feeling we tend to just be very trusting.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

And, you know, when you go outside of Preble County, you know, just yeah, you know. So, anyways, um, yeah, I start this new job and um I'm just the life is being sucked out of me. Um it was tough. It was three years of deep beating myself up all the time, uh, being in a terrible mood on Sundays.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:28

Because you knew Monday was coming.

Dark Thoughts And Telling The Truth

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

Yeah. And I hated it. I hated. Now, there were some great people in that employment, and again, customers, but I didn't like what I needed to do to be successful. And I'm not driven by money. I'm not driven by money. I'm not driven by trips, I'm not driven by, you know, all the things. All the things. You don't have to whine and dine me, you know. Um, I that doesn't matter to me. And I earned trips. I mean, I we we went on three spectacular trips that I had earned every year. So, I mean, clearly I was selling because I was earning trips, you know, and earning bonuses, but it just was never enough. It was always like you just never got a pat on the back. And that was just outs, outside of my norm because I am not jealous of anybody. I am so happy for the accomplishments that you have made in your life, right? Because that's on you. If I want it, whatever I want in my life, I am responsible for, right? I mean, so I really struggled in that in that mindset of sales and stuff. It just, I couldn't adapt to that. I'm not gonna lie, it was the deepest depression I'd ever been in my life, ever been in my life.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:56

Even compared to being diagnosed with MS.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

It was awful. I would lay in bed at night through the weeknight. I couldn't sleep. I was so Mondays were my planning days. Mondays I'd stay at home and I'd have to type where I was, everywhere the week before, you know, that accountability, where you were, he called. And then I would plan out my rest of the week, where I was gonna go, who I was calling on, you know, names. I mean, everything. And, you know, I would just, I feel so bad for my husband because he knew, and he knew I was so unhappy. But, you know, right, I'm responsible for my decisions. I'm the one that chose to quit juvenile court, quit doing what I loved and embark on this new adventure. So, you know, it was sink or swim, right? And that poor man made sure that, I mean, dishes were done, laundry was done, you know, the dinner was made, you know, everybody had everything that they needed. I mean, you know, like I felt like, like looking back, I felt like my poor husband like walked on eggshells because of I don't want to tip her, you know, like I'm I'm she's so unhappy, you know? And like I'll go back to when I was diagnosed with MS, I'd say, like, I felt bad for my kids. I felt like I couldn't be the mom I wanted to be for them. I don't know if they think that, I don't think they think that way, because I mean, I know my kids love me, but like just I beat myself up with a I probably could have been a better mom. I mean, I think I was a good mom, but like I could have been better, you know? But that's just that's just me. That it's me, me in my head, you know. I always said with my kids in in sports, like when you pick them up for practice, like, did you have fun? Yeah. Well, did you did you play hard? Yep. Do you think you play harder? Yeah. Okay. Well then play harder. You know, I mean, right? So yeah, I mean, I just felt in that time, in those three years, I really struggled. Oh, I struggled bad. I mean I contemplated whether or not I was gonna share this just because um it's really deep. And uh we're gonna we're gonna go deep. So I contemplated suicide several times. It was that bad. And you know, like as a juvenile probation officer, I worked with kids who had suicidal ideation. And you know, the first as a uh being trained in that, the first thing on your mind is, um, do you have a plan? You know, that was when we were in a deep conversation and they're in that area, you know, it's like, well, do you have a plan? If they said they had a plan, you know, like we're in crisis mode, you know. Well, I had a plan, you know. But uh um I really didn't know if I was gonna share that with you guys today or not. Um, because I just honestly shared with my husband when I was asked to be on this podcast. Um I felt like I needed to tell him because I never told anybody. I never told anybody that because I'm like, I'm I'm happy 24-7. I love my life. I live a great life. I have amazing parents, um, siblings, friends, community. I've got I've got a great life. I have no hardship. I mean, MS is a hardship, but I mean I can do it, you know. But really, I was that depressed that uh, but I just felt like I couldn't share with anybody because I was just somebody to be like, uh, not you, you know, like why? You got the best life ever. You know, why what would you what do you have to be depressed about? So I believe I'm sharing that just for anybody in the future if they're listening to this, and you really feel like you have nowhere to go or you just have no purpose. Oh my gosh. You know, you got a purpose. And and and I'm also mad that like I didn't reach, I didn't tell my husband or I didn't talk to my husband about it because I can honestly tell him and talk to him about anything. But I just he lost his dad. He's had a hard life, you know. He has no mom. Mom, mom passed away uh 15 years ago, and and uh, you know, I I feel like he just has me, the kids, and my my parents, and of course his siblings. But I mean, how selfish of me to have that feeling, to have that thought. So I really was in my head every day, every night, beating myself up for years. And uh, what got me through? So Coop's in high school at this time, and uh I get super involved in, you know, team meals, feeding the kids, Cooper's buddies. Um I see Sean jumping up and down in there. Um that was huge for for me at that time. Really um getting involved in school things. Um Cooper and his friends um coming over to the house thing the night, you know. I always said I feel the best when I have, you know, 20 pairs of shoes sitting in at the doorway, when I can feed them, when I can, you know, pour into them. And and uh I always, you know, pulled Eric into that with me as far as feeding, uh feeding them. But uh yeah, so that that I believe in those those years, those couple years really helped get through those thoughts. But I mean, those thoughts were so deeply intrusive. But I'm self-aware and I just really talked myself through it, and uh I had outlets to help get me through all that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:23

So super powerful that you shared that though. Like I'm I'm glad that you shared it because I don't know you from Adam, like walking in here, right? And first thing I see when we we're talking out there is you just see the joy. And like when we walked in here, like you just see joy in your life and and where you're at, and then you hear like everything that you're going through and like the empathy and like always think about other people. But the fact that you can share that and like I don't know, it's suicide, like people say, is like selfish and it and it is, but the fact that you felt selfish about like not sharing it and stuff, like you're still thinking about other people, yeah. But like when you just shared that, like somebody that doesn't know you and sees how joyful and like happy you are and like the fulfillment that you get and like seeing your purpose and being a purpose-driven person, um, and then you being open to share it. I feel like like especially listeners and the future people that are gonna listen, like that's super powerful because it's like somebody that's you know, doesn't have like all these traumatic things like before. Yeah, and really it's the environment of work and like stuff that you're in and like not having the fulfillment, like that got you those thoughts. Like that can happen to any of us, you know? Yeah. And it's it's okay and it's normal to have those thoughts. And and you were in a deep, like you said, like the crisis mode um that you had at work that you would consider yourself at, but like you self-okay, this is where I'm at. And then you found that outlet. Yeah, like it gives somebody a roadmap how they can get through it, and they can learn from you when you get those thoughts. It's not selfish to share those thoughts. Like that's where your mind's at. It's okay to get help. Like, super powerful. I can't thank you enough for sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:53

Thank you. I appreciate that. I really did struggle with sharing it just because it is. Um, I mean, I feel a little embarrassed. Um why? Because I'm a joyful, happy, go lucky, what you don't see on Facebook. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, but you're real. Yeah. I'm I yeah. And I thought, I thought, yes, you're giving me this opportunity to be real, and I'm going to honor that. I am going to honor that. Um, a friend of mine lost her son to suicide. He was in Hunter's class. That was Hunter's senior year. And maybe she'll listen to this, but I thought of her a lot. I thought of her of like, oh my Cindy, seriously? You know, you know what that put your community through, what that put his mother through, you know, and then the thought of like, wow, you know, he had so many wonderful people in his life, and he didn't, he didn't reach out, you know?

SPEAKER_06 1:19:58

I just think, you know, life can be all-consuming, right? You know, you've you've spent your entire life to this point caring for others, even when you were given the diagnosis of MS, even when you were in an automobile accident, right? You're you're constantly thinking of others the whole entire time. And, you know, making a career change is a big decision for anybody. And then to get in it and to to realize, oh boy, yeah, this probably wasn't the right move. But I'm determined, yeah, I'm not gonna make excuses. Yeah, I'm gonna dig down deep and I'm gonna get through this and I'm gonna succeed.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:41

Right? I I mean, that's what's going through your mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:44

But deep down, you know, like, this is not for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

Yeah, I did. Uh, and that it was deep. I mean, like, this is not for me. And I really liked like I can't blame that failure on anybody but myself. And that was just because let's go back to that job did not feed my soul. It sucked my soul. We're helping others is what just makes me a better me, you know? Um, and and I always say with me and my husband, we are a polar opposite people, but I promise you, we make one another better people because of that, you know, where I lack, he's great, where he lacks, I'm great. I mean, and that so I blame nothing of those um three years in that job. Uh, I did have success and again make great met great people. I worked with great people. I mean, I am I am blaming nobody, absolutely nobody, you know. But yeah, it was just such a terrible, terrible. Uh I mean, like Eric, my husband will say, like, oh, she could sell ice to an Eskimo. Well, there's there's just more to it. There's just more to it, you know?

SPEAKER_06 1:21:56

Let me ask you when you told Eric here recently about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:01

I think he knew. I think he knew. He just never, he never said, I knew.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:07

How did you feel when you told him when you got that off your chest?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:11

So relieved. So relieved. Yeah. Because you felt like I felt like I had that lie in me. And that is a problem, you know. So I've I felt very relieved and I felt like, ooh, okay, we can we can breathe now. It it's all that's out.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:29

I think that's an important piece to this for anybody listening. No matter what you're holding inside, yeah. There's only one person that's hurting.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:39

That's you.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:41

And when you when you finally let that out, when you finally have that freeing moment, I think that's that's when life can change. You know, that you you relieve that burden from yourself and you realize, yeah, you know, it wasn't that bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:56

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:57

You know, a lot of times it's it's worse in our minds to have that conversation than it is to actually do it.

Laid Off Then A New Calling

SPEAKER_02 1:23:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and then so that was that was three years. Um I'm on um, I'm on a vacation with with my family. It's the summer before Coop's senior year. So it's it's 2023. And um, and again, let I've got to go back to, you know, Cooper in high school and feeding these kids and football and baseball and being at all the events and just pouring into these coaches, you know, Mark Hoffman, uh, Eric Hoffman, Chad Thompson, Sean Rubish, you know, Coach Luce. I mean, National Trail has some amazing people leading our staff and students, you know. Um, but I just I got really involved in, and again, organizing these team meals and um making sure that um senior night was spectacular and these kids have memories. You know, um growing up back home in Southeast Ohio, Nelsonville, York, we always had team meals, but we called them team feeds. They were feeds every Thursday night. And I, you know, I remember those memories, you know. But anyways, um they those kids helped me get through some really dark days, you know. I always had events in the evening to look forward to, you know. Um, but it's so um Tatum, Cooper's girlfriend, spectacular human being. Um she graduates in uh 2023, and um, that's in May. And then in June, my kids' childhood dog, our love of our life, Brueger, German Shepherd, passes away of cancer, just shockingly, in June. And then um July, we go on vacation. Coming back from vacation, I get a call and it's my boss, and he says, Hey, you know, come out for this meeting. And uh, so I come out to Richmond to go to this meeting, and that's when he was like, Hey, we are um eliminating a sales position and you know, sorry, you're without a job. And I was, uh, what? Um, okay, uh, I'm going into Cooper's senior year. Um, I just lost my dog. Um, okay, Tatum graduated and starting adult life. Um, let's see. I mean, just woo. Overwhelmed. Overwhelmed with uh what? I lost my job. I had no backup plan, you know, no backup plan whatsoever. And honestly, I kind of like blacked out. Like I just I just go into blackout mode. Um, and I'm thinking, okay, what am what am I gonna do? I'm relieved, but I'm angry and I'm heartbroken and devastated because I just lost my job that paid tremendously. I mean, you know, great, great job. Um yeah, I'm just devastated, but in panic mode of what am I gonna do? Again, we're going into Cooper senior year, you know, and Hunter's still living in California. He was actually at the time on a on a ship. He was on a boat, he was on deployment. So yeah, you know, sweet little Gracie alone in California rocking life. And anyways, um, you know, my husband's like, I don't know, we'll figure it out, you know. I think we were relieved.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:38

That's what I was just gonna say. Yeah. Like part of you, yeah, once you got over the initial shock, yeah, after what you just shared with us, yeah, had to have been a little bit of a weight lifted off your shoulders.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:50

Huge. It was a huge weight. We all felt it. I mean, I felt like poor Cooper always felt mom's mood on Sundays as well, you know. Um, so yeah, it was definitely uh a relief. But I mean, I was also very angry because I was a though that job sucked my soul. I put everything I had into it when most days with MS, I didn't want to get out of bed. I didn't, I didn't want to go do, you know? And so I went through a bit of anger of um emotions of really like I'm a loyal employee. I am good to this company. I am I'm a I'm a good person. And I just got fired. Like that stung. It stung and it stung really hard. And I was angry for a really long time. But there was a reason. There was a reason for me because I was meant to be where I'm at right now. Truly mean that. Um, so yeah, without a job, I go to lunch with one of my great friends, Heather Morton. We're at Mexican and Eaton. And um Um two people I know Sheila Wilford, Jamie, uh Garrett. They are adult probation officers in Preble County Common Police Court. And uh we, I mean, I worked with so my husband worked with Jamie in the in the jail, and then Jamie had moved to um adult probation like in 2020, 2019 19, 2020, 2020. Um, and I had worked with Sheila because some of my juveniles at 18, if they didn't successfully was terminated, they didn't fulfill, I could still have them at 18, but they may pick up a criminal offense, you know, at at the age of 18. So sometimes we would, a kid would be on juvenile probation and would be on adult probation. And so they walk past, like, hey, Cindy, you know, how are you? And I'm like, oh, just looking for a job, you know. And uh they're like, oh, really? Yep, yep, lost my job. Then, you know, we say hi, bye. Great to see you, you know. I I love seeing people. Okay. So I don't know, that afternoon, then Sheila texts me and she says, Are you serious? Are you really looking for a job? I said, Yeah, I got canned. I'm really looking for a job. And uh, I had reached out to Judge Overmeyer and Trevenal Court, like when I was first job, first, first lost my job, and Judge was like, Oh my God, I'd love to have you back, but like I don't have any and I'm like, I get it. I, you know, completely understand. So, yeah. So uh Sheila's like, really? Because uh Judge just um, you know, we're allowed to hire another probation officer. You know, we're swamped. We need another, we need another PO. And I'm like, yes, please, whatever. I would, I would love to get back into that world, you know. So I started that job uh September of 2023, started working for Purple County Common Police Court as an adult felony probation officer. So I work with convicted felons, I supervise convicted felons on probation. And yes, I do have some of my juveniles from juvenile probation. But you know, yeah, so that's what I do now. And I love it. I love my coworkers. I absolutely Jamie and Sheila are amazing humans. Uh, we have a great working dynamic. And then just about five months ago, one of the girls that I used to work with in juvenile court, who I was super close with, we just brought her on board. So she's working with us now. That's all full circle. So that's great. Yeah. So Coop graduates in 2024 and and uh school life is over for me. I'm no longer feeding kids and I'm no longer living off that color-coded calendar. And I'm just focusing. I feel like I'm in such a great place emotionally, physically, mentally. I love waking up in the morning and going to work and being with my eight to four people and coming home and being with my home people and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:00

Yes. And you went through all of that pain and struggle and all that to find your purpose again.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:07

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:09

Talk about where your MS is now.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

So I actually went off of my meds several years ago. Um, I was on a, it was called Jalinia Go program. That was the medicine I was on. And I ran out of my copay assistance and I had to pay like five grand a month for my medicine. And so I, yeah. So I talked to my um, my husband and I talked to my neurologist about it. Like, I am pretty good at, I know my body, I know my limits, I know my do's and don'ts. I'm pretty good at that. Um, so you know, we asked my neurologist, like, okay, if this was, my husband said, you know, doc, if this was your mom, what would you do? And he was like, listen, the light's always on for her. If she needs me, let's let's go without some meds for a while and let's take an MRI. Let's see where she's at. Let's take another MRI in a year and see if she has any new growth uh on current lesions or any new ones pop up. So that's exactly what we did. And um, so that was in 2024, and they found a brain tumor. So on that routine MRI um brain scan, I found out I had a brain tumor. But remember, the world doesn't stop for Cindy Lee. You keep on trucking, life is great, and you just keep pushing forward. So I get routine MRIs every year, and that's how we're handling it. But my MS, I'm I'm just I'm handling it just every day. I mean, come on, every day there's symptoms, sure, you know, like hate, numbness, blurred vision, weakness, things like that. But you just nothing will dictate and determine the outcome of my day but me, right? So if I allow MS to dictate and determine the outcome of my day, then I lose, you know. But I also have to say, I win every day because I have great people around me. I have a wonderful husband who, you know, is my is my rock. My kids, you know, um, Hunter and Gracie and Cooper and Tatum and you know, my best friends, I got, you know, Jennifer and Melissa and and Mindy and you know, Chantel, Teresa, Mandy. I mean, like, I've got great people. I can do this. Because I'm telling you, if I have a bad day, it's just one phone call. Hey, my toilet needs clean and I really don't have the energy. And Eric is not a great toilet cleaner, so can you come to me? I mean, come on. You have surround yourself with good, I want good energy in my life. If you bring a net a a drop of negative, you know, I don't want to talk about people. I don't want, I don't want negativity. I don't have room for that in my space. So, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:09

It's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:10

Yeah.

unknown 1:34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:11

What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 1:34:12

I love it. I mean, I agree with you 100%. Put your, you know, you're most likely to become the person you hang out with, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:19

So if you want to be a positive person and want more positivity in your life, that's how you do it. Surround yourself.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:24

I do have one quick question though. Yes. So going back to the Survivor's Guilt, I had a we had a conversation um with a lady about one of our podcasts, and she had Survivor Guilt, and she listens to the podcast, and what you know, one of her friends and and everybody, you know, they died of cancer.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:42

And she survived cancer, and she that's one thing that she still is battling hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:48

What advice would you give her about survivor guilt?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:53

She has a purpose. She has a voice to share with others. And she has to understand that, you know, just God wasn't ready for her because she has the purpose and the voice to get people through suffering and struggling with cancer. Not just cancer, but everything, right? I mean, if she's battled cancer, she's battled like a warrior, right? So she has to have that warrior mindset. And and of course, sometimes we we put that shield down, but and that's okay. But I would I would say, you know, use that um to help someone else going through it, you know. I mean, right? God just wasn't ready for her, is not ready for her yet. So that's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:45

Pretty awesome. Sean, you got anything to add back there before I ask the uh last question.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:51

Yeah, Kevin's got a new controller, he loves it. No, but uh what shocked me. And the reason I put this yesterday on the Facebook post was that you're gonna shock people because I guarantee it. No, I was I was around you a lot.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:07

Yeah, you were.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:09

Um you know, our sons are great friends. Yes. And when I heard that, it absolutely stunned me because you you think you know somebody and you think you know what and I knew you were in sales and I knew you didn't like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:22

We talked about that quite a few times, but I had no clue. And I was around you a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:29

Yeah, uh, pretty much daily.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:30

Yeah, yeah, uh you know, at the baseball games and the and all like all of that, and I had no clue. Yeah, so it just goes to show you really don't that smile that people put on sometimes it's just a smile. Yep. And that's that's why I wrote what I wrote because that that absolutely floored me, knowing who you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:54

So yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:56

I appreciate that. Yeah, Sean helped me quite a bit in concessions and baseball. My husband and I, my husband would do all the grilling with the burgers and the dogs, and Sean would be inside helping me with the money, passing out things, and yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:08

It's pretty awesome. I think my mic's off. I can hear you. You can hear me?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:16

I can hear you too.

Park Bench Talk With Eric’s Dad

SPEAKER_06 1:37:17

All right, well, good. I can't hear me. That's okay. That's not a bad thing. All right, last question. If you could sit on a park bench and have a conversation with someone living or deceased, who would it be and why?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:29

So I have to tell you I've watched lots of your podcasts and I am thrilled that you asked this question. And it was a super easy, easy. I knew instantly who I was going to say. Be my husband's father. Um, he passed away when Eric was 12, soon to be 13. You know, he was raised without a dad. His siblings are 18 and 20 years older than him. Eric had to, you know, raise himself, basically, you know. Um, but being in this community, you know, I didn't join this community until 1999. And his, you know, father had been deceased for years. But he had clearly left a really impact on the community. He played Santa. And a lot of people have memories of that. So when they find out that I'm married to Eric Lee and who his dad is, they're like, you know, like, oh, his dad plays Santa for me. And, you know, Eric turned out to be an extreme successful man in his life as a father, as a friend, uh, you know, and as a husband. And I really would like his dad, Bill, to know that that, you know, your your family, they loved you, you know, and um your accident really brought them, you know, even closer. I mean, his family said I have the greatest in-laws, greatest in-laws. Um, and I would love to just have a conversation with him about how tremendous his family is. And also to let him know, we did not even talk about this, but um, I my husband and I were scout leaders. So both my boys are Eagle Scouts. I was involved in scouts for 17 years as a leader. So um, yes, battling MS and weather, I still did things. But all of my nephews are Eagle Scouts and my boys are Eagle Scouts as well. So, you know, Bill, all of your grandsons are Eagle Scouts. And that's huge. I mean, that's tremendous, and it's rare and it's unique because only 4% of scouts become Eagle rank. And I would just share with him that he was loved and he's missed, and he would be so proud. Um, so it'd be Eric's dad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:51

That's amazing because I'm I I know Eric's watching right now and listening, and I'm sure he's very emotional. Um so that that's uh that's a fantastic answer. Cindy, I gotta tell you, you know, you started off the podcast talking about how, you know, when you when you grew up you had older older brothers and uh you you mentioned that you were kind of a tomboy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:14

You know, um, if you were a man, and take this as the ultimate compliment.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:21

If you were a man, you would be an alpha male.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:24

Okay, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:25

Because your personality, right? You you you are you want to help others. You want to, I don't want to say be in control, but you want to make sure everybody feels loved.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:38

Amen. Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:39

Feels your kindness, feels that that you value them. I mean, you've said it over and over and over about your friends and how important your family is, and your husband, and your in-laws, and your parents, and and all those people. You know, you're just constantly lifting others. But the most impactful part of your story was when you shared your struggle.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:02

That's where the connection is to people is because you showed how real you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:11

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:12

And how it's okay to struggle.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:19

It's okay to sometimes feel like a failure. You know, to feel like you didn't you didn't hit that success button in whatever career path you take or whatever life decision that you make. And to recognize that uh when you finally shared that challenge, how freeing it was. And I hope that someone hears that message.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:45

I hope so too. I really do. And that because that's why I shared, because I really, like Sean said, I think that that's gonna shock people because you know, I did put the fake face on, you know. Um but I was struggling and it was hard. But you know, you just don't know what's going on among people's four walls. You just don't. And you know, give them give give somebody a smile, open the door, tell them how great they look, you like their hair, you I mean, ask about their kids. I mean, invest in them, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:24

You're amazing. Thank you. Amazing story, uh, amazing leadership. You know, thank you for for all that you've done for our community. Thank you. Uh, because we need more people just like you.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:37

I appreciate that. Thank you guys for having me.

Closing Thanks And How To Support

SPEAKER_03 1:42:39

Thank you for coming on.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:41

All right, everybody. Continue to like and share and do all those things. Give Cindy a big hug when you see her. Go out and be tempered.

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Patron's Glass, a clear choice.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:18

I want to share something that's become a big part of the Be Tempered mission: Patreon. Now, if you've never used it before, Patreon is a platform where we can build community together. It's not just about supporting the podcast, it's about having a space where we can connect on a deeper level, encourage one another, and walk this journey of faith, resilience, and perseverance side by side. Here's how it works. You can join as a free member and get access to daily posts, behind the scenes updates, encouragement, and some things I don't always put out on other platforms. And if you feel called to support the mission financially, there are different levels where you can do that too. That support helps us keep producing the podcasts, creating gear, hosting events, and sharing stories that we believe can truly impact lives. And here's the cool part. Patreon has a free app you can download right on your phone. It works just like Facebook or Instagram, but it's built specifically for our community. You'll be able to scroll through posts, watch videos, listen to content, and interact with others who are on the same journey. At the end of the day, this isn't just about content, it's about connection. It's about building something together. Not just me and Ben putting out episodes, but a family of people committed to growing stronger through real stories and real faith. So whether you just want to hop on as a free member or you feel called to support in a bigger way, Patreon is the door into that community. Because at the heart of Be Tempered has always been simple real stories, raw truth, resilient faith. So that even one person out there that hears what they need to hear, and Patreon helps make that possible.