Second Chances With Accountability And Love

What if justice felt like something you could touch every day—at work, at home, on your block? We dive into restorative justice as a lived practice that blends accountability with dignity, asking harder questions than punishment alone ever does: Who was harmed? What do they need? What will actually reduce the risk of future harm?

We start with the fragile first months after release, where stability beats pride. A $10 job can be the smartest move in the room when rent and food come first. From there, we build toward passion on solid ground—stacking small wins, using city programs for housing and essentials, and connecting people to paths they actually want. Along the way, we name the real culprits that derail progress: ego, impulsive anger, and the myth that walking away means weakness. Emotional regulation becomes a practical safety tool, not a buzzword, especially for young people navigating loyalty, grief, and triggers.

Then we draw a bright line between branding and substance. Slapping “restorative justice” on a bus or a one-off event doesn’t heal anyone. We talk about justice as daily treatment, not a press release—survivor-centered, community-led, and humble about limits. From New Zealand’s youth interventions to local circles that ask “what do you need,” we explore how unmet basic needs drive harm and how thoughtful support can stop it. We do not shy away from severe cases, including sexual violence, where truth, consequence, and a hard look at why power felt good are nonnegotiable.

Finally, we sketch a model that communities can own: creative funding through neighborhood events, referral partnerships that do not hand control to the system, and a shared value that repair is everyone’s work. If you’re skeptical, we’re listening—bring a better alternative that protects survivors, lowers recidivism, and builds public safety people can feel. Otherwise, lean in with us. Subscribe, share this episode with someone who cares about real safety, and tell us: what does repair look like where you live?

Chapters

• 0:00 Accountability With Love
• 1:04 Reentry Basics And Second Chances
• 2:26 Baby Steps And Starting Small
• 7:34 Meeting Basic Needs Before Passion
• 10:55 Ego, Walking Away, And Consequences
• 18:24 What Restorative Justice Is And Isn’t
• 22:58 Healing, Trauma, And Individual Needs
• 29:31 Reducing Harm And Youth Interventions
• 35:07 Community Over Individualism

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hello everyone, I'm Dr. Beatrice Hippolyte, and this is your world.

SPEAKER_01: 0:15

Yeah, and I always say, like, I always challenge people to to talk about accountability in terms of like accountability with love, right? Because so many people in this space, like let's take a person who did commit a crime, right? And they've been found guilty in their sentenced to let's say 25 years, right? So we can still hold them accountable with love and we can show them that, like, yes, you did this, yes, this is where you are, but now what? Now what? The act has been done. What does repair look like? And I think typically in spaces you either see people be super forgiving, or like, oh, you're fine, whatever, they don't know, it's the system, or people who are like the complete opposite, like you deserve nothing, you don't deserve food, you don't deserve a light, you don't deserve education. The reality is we can hold both at the same time, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:12

Both ways, you know, you know, you know, you know, so that because at the end of the day, for those who did commit the crime, they are a human being and they still deserve to get a second chance. Hey, so they because they already paid their dues to society. So for the crime that they committed, they served 20 years, 15 years, whatever they are on. So now so they're back into the society. So it's like it's our duty to kind of like create an environment for them to build on. Because what's the point for me to serve 20 years and be back into the community, not being able to work to provide for myself? If financially I'm struggling now, what you think is gonna happen, Miss V? I may end up doing something crazy because I need to, you know. I say that all the time. You know, because my basic needs have to be met. Exactly. So now you don't even offer me the opportunity for my basic needs to be met for the first three or six months upon releasing from prison. I may get some assistance from Ms. V. But at the end of the day, I'm full of energy. I can walk. Give me that opportunity, give me that chance, you know, to prove myself once again.

SPEAKER_01: 2:36

Yeah, yeah, and I think also restorative justice believes in asking people what it is that they need every step of the way, whether that's community building or when a crisis actually happens. So even when we think of like jobs, right? For people coming home, it's like we're typically like, oh, here are training programs. Like, pick one, make some money, get a career for yourself. But we never ask so many of our young people, like, what do you want to do? Let's say I my favorite question to ask. I say this to people all the time. Usually my clients listen, first thing I say to them, I give you a million dollars right now, what are you doing with it? Just tell me. You got a million dollars, but you have to work. So, what's the career path you chose for yourself? And you start to see, like, if we can connect people with things that they actually want and need, that is the difference between waking up excited to go to work and saying, Oh, look at me, I'm in business now, than just saying, go take this pharmacy tech career. I know you don't care about pharmacy, you just need the money. They burn out of stuff like that so quickly because they're not inspired.

SPEAKER_00: 3:41

I understand, and it's very it's a very good point that you raise misery, but at the same talking, we have to be realistic too. So if I, you know, somebody just came out from jail, so now you need to get back on your toes. I know you may have dreams, you know. You no, no, I respect that because we all do, we all do have dreams, but at this moment, you need something to get yourself, you know, untrapped. Yeah, if getting that ten dollar job an hour or five dollar job an hour at any place, that's how you get to start, then you have to do it. Yes, as don't even think about the amount of money that you used to make. Because one thing that I always tell people, I don't want to hear about, you know, like the$2,000 or the$4,000 you used to make in a week. That's what got you into the situation that you were to begin with. So now this is you want you want to repair your life. Sometimes you have to go small. And there is no shame in that game. If you were to take a job for$10, but slowly, slowly you build. You know, you take those baby steps. And you know, so it's like while you're doing that the job that pays you ten dollars, you know, after another two months or six months, you may find something that pays you twenty dollars an hour. Now, so no, because bear in mind you already you are already in a situation where people believe it or not, because the minute that you were in jail, whether it was for a crime, you know, something that you did or something you didn't do, but the title of criminal is being attached to you. Absolutely. It is unfortunate, but that's a reality that many people live with. So it's like now, how are you gonna prove yourself for those who have seen you with that title wherever that you go to prove yourself? Hey, you know what? If I didn't do it, then I can prove myself, even if I did it. I was young. You know, we're young, we do silly things, and the mistake that you probably made when you were in your 20s, I probably didn't make that same mistake, and the mistake that I made when I was in my 20s, it may not be the same mistake that somebody else made. But at one point in our lives, we all have made some mistakes, you know. Many of us were just fortunate enough to make mistakes that didn't lead us into legal situations. You see what I mean? Yeah, but for those who have uh made mistakes, you know, leading them to criminal activities, eventually had to have time or dealing with the law. You have to kind of like you know get to a point where you say, you know what, I now I'm in a time where I had to prove myself. So I'm gonna come and get that job from Miss V for$10. Down the road, me Sub So and so may see how great that I did with Mid V, or Miss V can even refer me to somebody else who can pay me$20 or$30 so and build up on that. And down the road, you may be encouraged to do a trade. You may be, you know, if you were passionate about college, you may decide to go to college. And at this point, college it's whenever you want to start with. I know people, you know, were retired and they decided to go to college after retirement, but you have to consider taking baby steps. Don't think about the amount that you used to make, right? Don't think about the lifestyle that you used to live because now you are basically starting over.

SPEAKER_01: 7:34

Yeah, and I think you know, something I always say to our young people that come through our doors is just like, what does it take for your basic needs to be met? Give me a number. Is that you having your own apartment? Is that you having food in the fridge? Are you happy with where you're living? Your number one goal needs to be to get your basic needs met and create basic stability. I completely agree. Like passion, while we love it, doesn't have a place when we talk about like food in the fridge, right? A roof over your head, access to like support. That's very basic. But once you get there, don't get complacent because that is where we lose you to the other parts of the world. Once you get your basic needs met, you need to always be thinking, what is my passion? How can I monetize this? Even like, especially with social media now, with everything we're seeing, people go viral and suddenly they're making five thousand dollars a month. This is all in their power and their control. But exactly what you said, take the baby steps and also recognizing that multiple things can be true at once. You might need a little bit of money to start off to get an apartment. Okay, cool. But there's programs that will help you get apartments, get food, get everything, even buy you furniture. Like New York City truly has a lot of programs, so it's like, how can we get you in that door, but don't forget about who you are and what your bigger purpose is.

SPEAKER_00: 9:08

Exactly, exactly. Because the minute that you know what your bigger purpose is, then you will be able to move forward much easier. Yes, because you have to know it, exactly, and at the end of the day, Miss V, I cannot decide to live on a life to try to impress you. After I impress you, and then what? Yeah, you know who cares if I don't wear iron brand clothes, though they're not gonna make me as a person. I must know who am I.

SPEAKER_01: 9:44

And it's it's so funny you bring that up because the first thing I think of is like also ego, right? People's ego and their like obsession with power. I remember saying to so many of our young people, like, what would happen if you just walked away? Why can you not walk away? I don't understand. They'd be like, Oh, well, then this person will view me as sis, but that's their perception. That's not the truth. You know the truth, you know who you're trying to be. Walk away.

SPEAKER_00: 10:09

Yeah, start walking away, please. You wanted to show that person that you are a man, you wanted to show that person that I don't take nonsense from people, but at the end of the day, after you showed that person that hey, I'm strong, where that led you, where that leaded you, right? You know, because I'm always around young people, and I always tell them, don't think about it now. Whatever actions that you plan on taking, think about the consequences now. Because by the time you make it to jail or prison, that will be too late. And that's this is the time you're gonna see, you know, gonna say, you know what, you know, I should not, I could have. No, no, think about the consequences right now.

SPEAKER_01: 10:56

Exactly. And emotional regulation is something our young people need to practice so much more and have some discernment, right? Like, I always tell people, like, you just think angry is the only thing. There is anger out of loyalty, there is anger out of like rage, there's anger out of family, there's anger because you're being triggered. What anger is it? Can you explore that? Can you start to understand what that means? And people used to tell me, wait, there's different types of anger, yes. Yeah, yeah, there actually is. So once we start teaching our young people um about emotional regulation and saying, like, what is it you're feeling? I believe we can totally interrupt the cycle of incarceration.

SPEAKER_00: 11:42

Okay, so Ms. V, can you kind of give us some explanation about the role of uh restorative justice in police community relations?

SPEAKER_01: 11:53

Yeah, so I have a lot of mixed feelings about this, right? Because it's it's again being used to brand things. And for me, I think that that's not correct because then people have a false idea of what restorative justice actually is. So the biggest thing I'll say with like community relations, right? Like re-investing into communities and supporting people while they are free, is that restorative justice is it's not the end all be all. A lot of people like to say it's an alternative framework to incarceration. I don't agree. It's just a tool, it's a tool in your toolbox to say, is there a better way to do this? Right? And a look, but a lot of people have to not forget what we talked about with the system. You can brand restorative justice all over any police force, any community affairs, any of those types of things. But what actually happens when it's just a circle, when it's just something one-off? For example, there's a community affairs almost like bus that has started in Brownsville, and they've like almost slapped restorative justice around it, right? So it's very much like there's people playing music and they're like jumping and they're like doing little events, and the community is almost confused because the community is like, wait, community affairs, safety, partying, wait, what's going on? So people are too confused because the message doesn't make sense. You say restorative justice, but what is justice? Right? And so I always say to people, to me, justice is not an outcome, it's a lived experience, it's the way we treat people every single day and the way people treat us. So that is really my pushback with restorative justice is like restorative practices, being restorative, repairing things. But to say justice, we have to live in a world where that is possible. And for so many people in this country, especially communities of color, especially black folks, justice is not a perceived reality for any of us. So we can't say that, and we have to step back and say, all right, justice, maybe not justice, but justice adjacent. Can we get as close to justice as we possibly can every day? That's really what I said.

SPEAKER_00: 14:14

Yeah, so what are the approaches uh to address trauma and promoting healing in marginalized uh communities?

unknown: 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:24

You know, that's such a loaded question because what does healing look like, right? Healing looks so different for so many people. Sometimes people's healing journey is saying the person that caused me harm, I want nothing to do with them. For some people, it says, I want a circle, I want to talk about this. For some people, it says pay me a million dollars, right? Justice looks so many different ways, healing looks so different. So I think it's a re you have to take a really nuanced approach with it. So what I always like to do is I always like to say one thing is whenever communities, especially communities of color, when we face harm, it's always like you have to do one thing or the other. No, no, no. What do you need? And we and I think when we ask people what they need, we also have to not compete for harm, right? So a lot of times we'll say, like, no, no, no, I was harmed worse.

SPEAKER_00: 15:11

Will you address that on a case-by-case situation?

SPEAKER_01: 15:15

But also, like, we're not against each other, we're all in this community and we're all supposed to repair. So I'm not gonna sit here and say you went through something worse than this person, and that's where we need no no no. What happened to you? What do you need? Don't compare. Comparison is a thief of joy, right? Let's back away from that. What do you need to feel like justice happened? And for some people, it's just an apology, right? So for some people, it's just like, I want someone to look me in the face and me to tell them what you did was wrong, and here's how it hurt me. For some people, it's like true justice for me. Seeing this person behind bars, they're allowed to say that, they're allowed to want that, they're allowed to feel vindicated in those moments. Those are all okay, but it's all about actually saying what do you need? Because so many times in our criminal legal system, it's like, well, here's the law you broke. Everyone under that law has to go by these rules. And who cares about the survivors? Who cares about the victims? Who cares about any of those people? No, no, no. We take that individualized approach and we say, What do you need? What does your community need? Maybe it's not all possible, right? I'm not saying I'm like a magic theory and everything is gonna come true, but can we start somewhere and start addressing some of the things that people need? Even if we can't address everything, I believe we can address a couple things and get us to a little bit of a better place than we were before.

SPEAKER_00: 16:43

Okay. In terms of incarceration and promote rehabilitation, what potential that you see for restorative justice to reduce mass incarceration and promote rehabilitation?

SPEAKER_01: 16:58

Yeah, no, I mean I think so much, right? Because one, I say there's a world inside jails and prisons, and there's a world outside, right? Those are two very different but connected worlds, right? So if restorative practices had a place inside of a jail or prison and had a place systemically inside the community, I think we'd be able to reduce mass incarceration by an incredible amount. Because when harm happens within a jail and a prison, there's not really a system or a structure to address that. It's like, well, this happened, play the camera, maybe there's a charge, okay, cool. But but there's people, there's real people behind the harm, and that never gets addressed. So for years, especially for so many people with COVID, they've been in court, the court system for four or five years. There's just witnessing and committing harm for years on end with no intervention. So when they come out, their brain is already wired to say, who cares?

SPEAKER_00: 17:57

So the information you just provided, it's research-based or just personal opinion?

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

No, it's research-based. So not I haven't seen it be implemented in the United States yet, maybe one day soon. But a country that's doing an incredible job is New Zealand. So what they do is the first time someone commits a crime, any crime, 80 to 90% of that crime is done before the age of 17. So what they do is they intervene in that moment and the courts say, all right, let's go through everything. Why did you commit this crime? Who was harmed? What happened? What do you need to never commit this crime again? Over 50% of people are just not committing crimes. Because when people are committing crimes at such young ages, it's because their basic needs are not met. So all of a sudden, if you have the state or the country come in and say, you know what? Let's do an example. So a 16-year-old steals food because he's hungry, right? Then the government would intervene and say, Why did you do this? It's like, well, I don't have stable housing, I don't have this food, I don't have this money, this is happening at school, da-da. The state will then send people to fix every systemic issue that that young person is faced with and then provide them with support. So by the time it's like in a year, you should have everything that you need. So you should never be in this predicament again. And for those more violent cases that do happen when people are still young, it's saying, like, oh, why did this happen? And let's bring in the family. Let's bring in the family of the people impacted, let's bring in your family. Let's see what your grandmother has to say about this. Let's let's get everyone involved. And those are the things young people need because I truly believe and restorative justice really believes this is positive intent. We believe that people aren't actively trying to cause harm in their communities for the rest of their life. But things happen. People make choices, people are emotional, right? So it's really stepping back and saying, like, what systemic shifts can we really make here? And how can we show young people like Okay, you did it. That happened. But guess what? Got grandma in the house. We got mom next door. We got your neighbor, and we got some kids. And the family that's been impacted are also willing to come to the table because more times than not, what they always tell us is for us to feel healed, we want to make sure you never do what you did to us, to someone else. That is overwhelmingly people's answer. So if you can tell them, work with me, we'll get you what you need, but also let's make sure this young person never does this. Again, this is never their reality, and this is never another family's reality. People are pretty interested in getting that off the ground more than people would like to admit.

SPEAKER_00: 20:38

Yeah, because everybody wanna feel safe.

SPEAKER_01: 20:40

Of course. Public safety, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:43

Very important. How can reservative justice be used to challenge systemic injustice and promote social change?

unknown: 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:52

I mean, I think, you know, when we live, we live under a world that's very capitalistic, right? We live under a world that's like, do this for us, we do this in return. That's how we get jobs, that's how we make money, how we do all of those things. But it's also centered on this idea of individualism.

SPEAKER_00: 21:09

The quipo is that it seemed to be illegal, but you know, and directly it's being used almost everywhere.

SPEAKER_01: 21:16

Exactly. And I think it's the individualism that's really hurting us. We're community-based people. Uh people that came before us used to eat dinner together, used to be families of 20, 30, 50 people at reunions, just getting information from our elders. Our kids would be running around with each other. We've forgotten that because we want to have the nice house and we want to make the money and we want to feel good, and all of that is fine. We have to make ends meet, but we have to go back to community-centered work because we as people need other people. We need partnerships, we need friendships, we need friends, we need romantic relationships, and that's what all of this says is like the system is the way that it is because we as a people are upholding the system in its current state.

SPEAKER_00: 22:04

Because as human beings, we are social animals, we need each other, and you know, so mentioning that, so I remember, you know, I watched that movie many years ago, and I don't know, you probably seen it too. I think the name of the movie was Cast Away, and uh Tom Hanks, Tom Tom Hanks used to be the main character, but one thing, so it was like when he found himself in the desert alone in order to survive, he had to create a human character, Wilson, you know, so he's like took a tree, you know, give him, you know, like dress him, dredge the tree, and put a face, you know, with the eyes, the mouth, and every day he will just like wake up and have a conversation with that uh uh fictual person. So and that's what got him, you know, alive throughout the entire time. So, you know, I took that uh example, it's because it was like a real description of like you know, to show that as human beings we are social animals and we definitely need one another to survive. What are the benefits and challenges of implementing restorative justice in communities of color?

SPEAKER_01: 23:26

One, I think people tell us things all the time, right? Like, we have a new solution. Okay, we've heard it. This is the 30th solution presented to me this year alone. Do I really believe in it? Do I really agree to this? Like, am I willing to be vulnerable? And I think that is the biggest challenge is like we think about restorative justice, and people sometimes say it's soft, right? It's like, oh, you just want to sit in a circle, everything's not therapy, Miss V. It's like, yo, I hear you, but I believe restorative justice is actually the harshest punishment because think about it. All right, I did something that was illegal, I caused harm to a family or a community, but now I'm in jail and I don't ever have to think about them for 15 years. Now, what happens if I have to look that mother in her face and say, I did take the shoes, and here's why I took the shoes, and I'm watching her grief, I'm watching her pain, I'm watching her husband hold her. I'm I have to face myself, and I think that is the hardest piece. So I think a lot of people like to say it's soft, a lot of people don't fully understand, but it takes such incredible strength to go through a full restorative process and say, okay, I mean, I've seen people break down and cry, and it's just like, yeah, because you're not just facing the crime, you're facing why did me as a person cause this much harm to someone who's just sitting in front of me, and so I think that's really the biggest challenge is getting people to be vulnerable, to say this is actually or even to get to that point, because they are people, even after committed the crime, they will not develop any insight into what they did.

SPEAKER_00: 25:15

You know, so let's say for example, I encountered a situation once, there was a whip uh situation, you know, going on. I laugh that because it's funny, yeah, but it's because the way that that guy approached me, you know, and inquired about my knowledge about voodoo. And I said, I don't know anything about voodoo except I read about it, but he was like, you Asian, right? I said, a very poor one, born anyways. Yeah. And how the heck you don't know how to practice voodoo? And I said, I just don't. This is not something I grew up on. My family, I never seen my family practicing it. I don't know about it, but to tell you that I don't know about it, like from people or hearing it from people who heard about it, so that would have been in line, but practicing it, so that's not my thing. I didn't grow up on it. But we got curious to know the reason why he wanted to know whether I practice voodoo or not. To make a long story short, so he's like, he apparently was dealing with a legal situation and wanted me to practice some voodoo, you know, without even asking him. So he thought that you know, practicing some voodoo, give him some voodoo skills will have been a tool for him to kind of like blind, you know, whatever, you know, I don't know, you know, for the judge to be linear, whatever the case, I you know, but even you know, I didn't bother to let him explain the reason why, to know, to be quite honest. But one thing, so you know, I kind of like you know, got me sad. It's because, you know, when I asked him, whatever that, you know, so you want that, did you actually did it? You know? So, and he didn't say anything. And I said, since you didn't say anything, should I took no for an answer? Why did he start getting, you know, like angry and things like that? And it saddened me the fact that I've realized that there was no remorse. You know, there was no remorse. You violated somebody's body, you met someone at a public place, somebody that you never met before. You violated that person, and now you came to me to ask me, you know, whether that I practice voodoo to help you get out of that situation. And I said, let's just picture or just assume that I practice voodoo and I help you out, you know, to get away with murder. That will have been a disservice to you and to the person that was hurt. And I'm like, if I do that for you, then when you're gonna learn that you did something wrong. This time is a time for you to reflect on what you did. Know that you did something wrong, you violated somebody, and if you were to pay for it, you have to face it and have the courage to face it. All I'm praying is for God to give you the strength to do your time whenever that time comes, you know, to do it peacefully and not having any intention to commit suicide. But at the end of the day, the person you violated deserves to get justice.

SPEAKER_01: 29:09

Absolutely, and then I also think with these cases of rape, sexual assault that people go through, a lot of what's missing in the conversation is for so many people that commit these crimes is how good the power makes them feel, right? Like people are enjoying that, and that is coming from somewhere, whether that is how this person has been raised their whole life, something within them, right? Like, I'm not saying that everyone needs to be free all of the time, but I'm saying, can we interrogate why the power feels so good and why this was the acceptable decision for you? Because we know in society these crimes are not acceptable. Most people, if not all, are very serious about this type of bodily harm. So, why did you think that this was okay? Because the power felt good, is what a lot of people will say. So then it's like, well, what do we do with that? Like, what do you do there? You interrogate why does the power feel so good? Because this is not normal behavior, it's not normal to harm someone.

SPEAKER_00: 30:20

Yeah, you have the right who gives you that right to go and violate somebody like that and think that you know it's okay. You move like if nothing happened. Exactly. So now, so you you you don't want to serve time, but that person will leave with that emotional scores forever, forever, absolutely, absolutely, forever. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to offend you, but you have to get into a phase to understand you did wrong. Absolutely, you know, you did wrong, absolutely. Okay, so my next before the last one. How can we ensure that restorative justice practices are culturally responsive and community-led?

SPEAKER_01: 31:15

Yeah, I always say restorative justice, restorative practices, that's a value. Like we have to start there. It is a value that we all need to be thinking about and believing in. So that starts with the communities. We talk a lot about communities of color, black communities, like restorative justice is our value. It is the way that we move through the world and there's the things that we believe. I think that we need to start really there. It's not a program, it's not an offering, it's not something that makes things look nice. Restorative justice is a value of people and organizations, and once we implement it there, it has the means to really grow and create a space that everyone feels cared for.

SPEAKER_00: 31:59

Before we go to your last thought on this subject, so I want you to kind of let, you know, tell everybody, you know, like about your LLC, what it's gonna uh entail, and uh, you know, and if there is gonna be any fear, because it's a lot of work you put you you tend, you know, you plan to put out there, and I'm pretty sure money is gonna get involved because in whatever that we do, you know, money will always get involved. Like I'm doing this podcast, I'm spending a lot of money, but I haven't generated any money yet from it. But I'm doing it because I love it, and I think it's something that you you tend to engage into because you love it, you wanna empower people, you wanna be there for people, you wanna help people reintegrate in society, you wanna uh uh help people to feel human again, but at the end of the day, so you know it's gonna cost.

SPEAKER_01: 32:59

Yeah, no, I think that's a great question, and something I always come back to is this in Brownsville, Brooklyn, there is 1.1 billion dollars circulated within their delis and their corner stores every year, which blew my mind when I heard that statistic. 1.1 billion dollars. So I go back to this idea. Yes, we need money, yes. This LLC will need operational budgets and grants and people in the community, but I believe that the community can power each other. There are places that are already making money that's saying, like, can we just throw parkings? Can we throw events? People pay to get into an event, and that becomes our operating budget. What are ways that we can be a little bit more creative in this new world instead of saying, Oh, we just need grants, right? We just need this, we just need that. I really want to get to a point where we say the people that we are supporting and are helping, the goal is for them to be financially free so they can spend$25,$50, and we're not moving from this idea of theory, we're moving through lived experience because once we're creating these spaces and people are getting the outcomes, right? They're getting the jobs, they're buying the houses, people are donating already. People are saying, when's your next event?$50 a ticket,$100 a ticket, we're ready. People want to be part of an experience. So instead of saying people, saying two people, right? Invest in me, give me this amount of money, come, just show up, come to an event. Call us, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:35

How are you planning to partner with the court or any other big organization, you know, that walk within that uh program already?

SPEAKER_01: 34:45

Yeah, it's a hard question for me because I still have qualms, right? Around that, I don't want this to be an alternative to incarceration. I don't want this to look differently. No, but how do we work within the system, right? And so what I'd like to see happen is a referral-based process. So where folks just can refer us from the courts and say, hey, we have a young person. He's in this program, here's what's going on. Can you work with him? Can you reach out? That would be my ideal way of connecting with them because I don't want them to dictate what this looks like, right? Because they're like, How old is he? Or how old is she? What is happening? What is it? What zip code are they for? Uh-uh. Is this a young person in need? Yes or no? Then send them to me.

SPEAKER_00: 35:31

Because you know, because you know, you you have your your own specific goals, right? You know, for that project. It's your baby, yes, it is, and you want to protect it. Exactly. I agree. Exactly. I agree. Your last thought on this topic before I let you go?

SPEAKER_01: 35:48

Yes. I think for me, the last thing I want to say to anyone who's like restorative justice, I don't know, right? I hear you, I get that, but my response always is: Do you have an alternative? What's your alternative? Give me an alternative that's not restorative justice that can accomplish this. And I'm waiting. I've been waiting, right? And I haven't seen an alternative that speaks to me or the people. That's what that's the last thing I'll say is show me something better. And then we can talk, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:17

Okay, okay. It was uh a very delighted conversation. I enjoyed it, and I'm pretty sure many people who are watching, you know, will learn from it, you know. So, and it's a good work that you you are putting out there. So I wish you all the best. Thank you. It was a pleasure, you know, seeing you, having you on the show. And I know today, you know, is your first time on the show, yeah, and it won't be the last.

SPEAKER_01: 36:50

Yes, thank you so much. Stay beautiful, thank you, you smell.

SPEAKER_00: 36:55

Of that said, it was with your doctor Beatrice Hippolyte with your world.