Derm-it Trotter! Don't Swear About Skincare.
Feeling frustrated or overwhelmed with everything skin? Does the skinformation overload make you want to swear about skincare? Join Dr. Shannon C. Trotter, board certified dermatologist, as she talks with fellow dermatologists and colleagues in skincare to help separate fact from fiction and simplify the world of skin. After listening, you won’t swear about skincare anymore!
Derm-it Trotter! Don't Swear About Skincare.
Rethinking Sunscreen: Self-Care, Not a Chore
Skin cancer is the most common—and preventable—cancer in the U.S., yet many of us still skip proper sun protection. In this episode, Dr. Amy Spizuoco, a board-certified dermatologist and Mohs surgeon, breaks down sunscreen myths and shares practical, no-nonsense advice. From SPF confusion and spray application tips to protecting overlooked areas like the scalp and lips, Dr. Spiz helps reframe sunscreen as a daily act of self-care. Whether you're a parent, a skincare newbie, or someone who just hates the feel of sunscreen, this conversation will change the way you protect your skin.
I think it's extremely important to wear sunscreen every single day, even when it's raining, even when it's snowing, even in the middle of winter. Uva and UVB can cause skin cancer. There are two types of sunscreens. There's the mineral sunscreens or the physical blockers, and then there's the chemical blockers. I always recommend for your full body you should use one ounce. So picture a shot glass that should cover your entire body. To have a skin cancer. It moved, it's scary, you know it's. At the end of the day, it's surgery.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Dermot Trotter. Don't swear about skincare when host Dr Shannon C Trotter, a board certified dermatologist, sits down with fellow dermatologists and skincare experts to separate fact from fiction and simplify skincare. Let's get started.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Dermotrotter Don't Swear About Skincare podcast. Today I have a special guest on Dr Amy Spivoco. Board-certified dermatologist actually goes by Dr Spiv, past president of the AOCD and also dermatologist, dermatopathologist and Mohs surgeon. So, as you can tell, already an overachiever and a wonderful lady at that. Welcome to the podcast, amy. It's great to have you here.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, dr Trotter, and I wanted to say congratulations on your newly appointed board of trustees for the AOCD. Thank you so much. It's such a great honor to have Congratulations.
Speaker 3:Well, I fall in great footsteps, like yourself, but I'm really happy to have you with us because you know what we want to talk about today sunscreens. You know, I feel like everyone's like overwhelmed right With all the information on sunscreens. What's out there? What's fact, what's fiction? What do I need to be doing? And a lot of people think it's really obvious. You know, like, why wear sunscreen. Well, they think they kind of know, but I want you to really explain why is it so?
Speaker 1:important that we wear sunscreen every day. I will. I know there's so much confusing information out there, and not that it changes all the time, but someone puts out one little story on whatever social media and then it's trending everywhere and you know, and your office is flooded with all this misinformation or just misnomers. So I think it's extremely important to wear sunscreen every single day, even when it's raining, even when it's snowing, even in the middle of winter, when there are UV rays showing, because UVA and UVB can cause skin cancer. Cause UVA and UVB can cause skin cancer. It can cause melanoma, it can cause squamous cell carcinomas, basal cell carcinomas, you name it. All related to sun exposure.
Speaker 3:And so if somebody's out there thinking like, yeah, I don't know, sunscreen is for me. I hear I got to wear it every day. It sounds like a lot of work. Who do you really think of that should be wearing sunscreen and who shouldn't be wearing it?
Speaker 1:Everyone, Everyone should be wearing sunscreen. My patients come in every day in the morning and they'll say, oh well, I'm just coming here for my appointment and then I'm going to my office and that's it. I'm barely outside. But what they don't realize is there's UVA and UVB outside, no matter where they go, Especially where I practice in New York City. You know we're in the concrete jungle, there's, you know, asphalt everywhere, so it reflects up, it reflects around. So every single person should be wearing sunscreen every day. Every we say Fitzpatrick skin type, you know the lighter skins to the darker skins. So anyone who has skin should be wearing sunscreen every day, in my opinion.
Speaker 3:And how do you deal with that with children If you have a parent coming in that maybe has a little one, a newborn, maybe you know, just you know, born a few weeks ago. They want to go somewhere nice. How do you counsel them on sunscreen and what they should do for kids?
Speaker 1:Well for one, stay out of the sun. That's my main thing. I tell everyone at all my skin cancer screenings or any, just any appointment we have with patients stay out of the sun. If you have to be in the sun, try to be out from you. Stay out from the hours of 10 am and 2 pm mainly, but if you have to be in this sun we want to cover up as best as you can. So anything physically that can block your skin from the sun, so hats, sunglasses, long sleeves, anything to protect and cover your skin and block. Also, there's clothing that has sunscreen added to it. It's called UPF protective clothing. So I always recommend our patients buying that, especially for the little ones who are going to be out in the water. You know, playing in the sand all day and then two. You can also buy laundry detergent and use it and it will add some protective factor to your clothing if you don't want to buy clothing that already has it in. So that's what I always recommend for the little ones.
Speaker 3:Well, and that's really great too, because then you can make essentially any piece of clothing potentially some protective and especially with us not wanting those little ones under six months of age to use sunscreen, that clothing becomes pretty important as the avoidance that you highlighted there, because I think people just think, oh, being out in the sun, you know it's healthy for them, right, you know we need that sun exposure, but not realizing how immature and sensitive their skin is and prone to sunburn and what can actually happen. So really good points that you highlight there, because I think parents are looking at sunscreen once they want to start using this, you know, six months of age or older, part of the concern is they're like I don't know, I don't like these ingredients in sunscreen. Do you mind talking a little bit about those ingredients, like how does sunscreens work and the difference between, like the chemical and mineral sunscreens? Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So there are two types of sunscreens. There's the mineral sunscreens or the physical blockers, and then there's the chemical blockers, the chemical sunscreens. So the way the mineral ones work is they are laid on the skin or applied to the skin and they reflect the UVA and the UVB. So those are the mineral ones titanium dioxide, zinc oxide the physical blockers, the chemical blockers, are like the avobenzones and the octicrylate I can't even say all the words harder than my last name but those are the ones that actually get absorbed into the skin and what they do is they absorb the UVA and the UVB, so they kind of scatter it under the skin. Uva and the UVB, so they kind of scatter it under the skin. So the mineral or the physicals are going to reflect and the chemicals are going to absorb that UVA and UVB.
Speaker 3:And when you think of those, like from your own personal opinion perspective, do you feel like both of those are safe options for patients? Because I think a lot of people out there think, oh, they hear the word, you know, chemical sunscreen. I think the connotation of chemical people think negative, right, like chemical must be a bad thing, not even thinking that, well, zinc and titanium oxide, I mean those are both chemicals. Water is a chemical, right. So I think part of what confuses patients people out there is you know, are these really safe? Are these okay? What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 1:I think the ones that the titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, the mineral or the um, you know the physical barriers, I think they are safer because they don't get absorbed into the skin. They really just kind of reflect the sunlight back, the uva, the uvb, um, the absorption of the chemical blockers, I don't think anyone really knows how much exactly gets absorbed, you know, into the system and what it actually really can do. So I mean, if you have a choice, I always say the physical or the mineral blockers are definitely, we know are safer. The extent of safety I don't think anyone really knows, but in my opinion any sunscreen is better than getting a melanoma. So any sunscreen is better than getting a melanoma. So any sunscreen.
Speaker 3:Because I think that's true. You know, like part of it is. You know what are you comfortable with. So the thought of using one of the chemical type component sunscreens really freaks you out. And yeah, stick with the mineral. You know I try to encourage people to.
Speaker 3:You know, we do know that there is some absorption of some of these materials, like chemicals, into the body from sunscreen use, but we really don't know what to make of that. Does that necessarily mean that they're causing harm? Right, and I think the jury's still out. We need more data. So you're right, using sunscreen regardless whether you choose a mineral or chemical, one's great. Or maybe do a hybrid. There's lots that combine it now that some people like the benefits. You know both and maybe that can get the best of both worlds. But I get where people are kind of concerned because I think when they're looking at the label, you know they're reading oh, is this mineral or what are these chemical names, like you mentioned some of the examples. And then they're also looking at SPF. But a lot of people don't really know what SPF means. Do you mind explaining that a little bit to give people a better idea, if they're looking at that label, what SPF refers?
Speaker 1:to. Yeah, so sun protection factor. So that is the level of protection that this product or this sunscreen is going to give you from preventing a sunburn. So it's measured by the, it's calculated and measured by the minimal erythema dose. So what they did when they test it out is they apply a sunscreen to an area of skin on the body Sorry, they apply sunlight or UVA or UVB to an area of skin and then they also apply an area of sunscreen to the same area, a layer of sunscreen to the area, and they calculate how long it takes for each spot to burn. So if with sunscreen on, it takes 150 minutes to burn and without sunscreen it takes 10 minutes, you now have SPF 15, because it gets divided 150 by 10. And that's how they figure out those numbers.
Speaker 1:So when they measure the SPF, though, it really only refers to blocking UVB, not so much UVA, and that really applies to the chemical blockers, excuse me. So we know the avobenzones and the octacrylates. You know those are a little bit better with UVA. The mineral and the physical ones we know are a little bit better with UVA and UVB. So another reason why it's better to use the mineral sunscreens because they're more of a broad spectrum that word that we keep hearing listed on sunscreens. So the ones that can really only list the sunscreen brands that can only that can list broad spectrum excuse me are the ones that have the minerals, so the titanium dioxide and the zinc oxide. So another reason why those are going to be better for you because they block more UVA and UVB at the same time.
Speaker 3:So it sounds like that's what we should be looking for on that label right An SPF Broad spectrum.
Speaker 3:Yes, broad spectrum are the two things to make sure we're hitting those UVA and UVB rays, and we'll talk a little bit more about specificity with SPF, maybe what you would recommend. But there's also this concept of like the PA rating of sunscreen, and I think some people have heard of it here in the United States, but it's definitely better known in other countries or parts of Asia. Do you mind explaining a little bit what the PA rating is, in case somebody does see a bunch of positive signs on their label and they're wondering what is that? Even referring to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this was used to test the level of the UVA protection. It's the protection grade of UVA and right, there are pluses. So one plus is going to be like minimally protective against UVA. Lots of pluses are going to be much more. You know, it's a gradient there too, but that's going to let us know what's helping to block the UVA rays.
Speaker 3:And then if you have people that are looking for the extra bonus, you know they can. Okay, this says broad spectrum. I got my SPF. Maybe there's a PA rating. What about? They're going to be in water a lot If they're, you know, going to be swimming, or maybe they just tend to sweat a lot. What should they be looking for on their label as well?
Speaker 1:So, they want to look for water resistant no-transcript. So that's going to measure how long this sunscreen will be able to kind of protect the water from seeping in and washing off the sunscreen. So it can either be 40 minutes or 80 minutes. Obviously look for 80 minutes so it lasts longer. But I'm sure you do the same thing. I always tell my patients if you're going to be out in the beach or the lake or you're going to be sweating and somewhere you're going to get water on your skin after applying sunscreen, you want to make sure that you reapply. I say every hour. I know the AAD, you know and probably the American Cancer Society all say every two hours, but I just don't think people listen. So you know compliance is such an issue. So I say if you're going to be out all day sweating and getting wet, reapply every hour. Yeah, I think it's human nature right.
Speaker 3:You give people an inch, they take a mile. So I think you short that a little bit, even though you're right. Our guidelines are maybe give people a little bit more leniency, which I think that's what a lot of people want to know. Okay, like if you would summarize you know what? Minimal SPF? What should my label say? How often should I reapply? What do you tell your patients with sunscreen?
Speaker 1:I sound like a broken record after a skin cancer screening and I feel like my staff like want to like just fall asleep standing. But I say you know, I say stay out of the sun. If you have to be in the sun, let it not be between 10am and 2pm, but if you do stay in the shade, you know, cover, like I said with. You know, long sleeves, a hat, sunglasses, apply your sunscreen. I always say apply it 20 minutes before going out in the sun.
Speaker 1:Even with the physical blockers or the mineral blockers, they don't get absorbed and they start working immediately. But just in case someone's not using a physical blocker, like I recommend, and they're using a chemical one that takes about 20 minutes to absorb in the skin, so I tell them the second. You get to the beach and you know, get all set up. That's not when you should put your sunscreen on. You should put it on when you're getting your bathing suit on, you know, getting ready to go out to the beach or the pool, and then I say reapply every hour if you're going to be out there all day in the sun.
Speaker 3:Those are my keys. And how often do you think they actually listen to your recommendation?
Speaker 1:You know, I think they want to. I think it's hard, though, you know, when you're at the beach and you know playing and you know just having fun, to stop and say, wait, I got to put my sunscreen on is is a little bit, um, a little bit hard to do, so that's why, again, I like the SPF, uh, the UPF clothing um, a little bit hard to do. So that's why, again, I like the SPF, uh, the UPF clothing, um, and and sitting in the shade as much as you can.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's the hard part. You know some protection in general is a lot of work, right, like I think we're. All. Even myself as a dermatologist, I mean I can be as lazy as the next person and my husband always makes fun of me because he says, oh, it's you and the five-year-olds with your rash guards on, you know, when we go to the beach. But it's a lot of work, you know, to keep reapplying, chasing the kids down, and so I always tell people you know it does take a little bit of dedication to get used to it in a routine, but it can work if you actually do it. Once people get the buy-in, they definitely see the benefit for it. And I think, too, sunscreen is interesting Now that we're coming up.
Speaker 3:You know spring's upon us. People are getting ready for those spring break trips or even thinking about where they're going to travel this summer. Should they use their sunscreen from last year? Or what do you think about expiration dates? What do you tell people to look for? Because a lot of those sunscreens have been thrown in the car, you know, for weeks on end or the end of the summer. Maybe they were in their hot. You know beach bag down at the beach. How do you educate people on just expiration of sunscreens?
Speaker 1:I tell them it's really important because, while other things can have a little bit of a longer shelf life, you don't want to mess around with your sunscreen because we really don't know. If it does say April 2025, are you going to use the Memorial Day weekend a month later? We really don't know what it means with the shelf life when it wears out, and that's not something you want to risk. You know, putting on a sunscreen that you think is going to work and then you get a burn, you know, then years later, you end up with the skin cancer.
Speaker 1:So I think expiration dates are super important and, and speaking of that as well, the sunscreens that are laying around in your trunk or, you know, in your beach bag, that you put in, you know, your garage for the winter, I always recommend for your full body, you should use one ounce, you know. So picture a shot glass that should cover your entire body and I, you know, I tease my patients and say that, like you know, four ounce bottle of, like Coppertone which I don't get this anymore, just age myself, but you know that four ounce bottle, like if you're a family of four, you should use it at one beach trip, or even just that you know. On your way to the beach, you need to have backups with you.
Speaker 1:So, exploration data, I think is super important and that's not something you want to risk.
Speaker 3:When it comes to sunscreen, Not at all I know we kind of talked about labeling and stuff we're seeing now on sunscreen how much to put on. What are your thoughts on sunscreen and kind of this? You know concept behind like the high energy visible light and you know kind of making comments about that on sunscreen labels. Is that something that you talk to patients a little bit about, about how that can contribute maybe to skin issues as well?
Speaker 1:I do to an extent, but I think there's still not a lot known out there about it. So I mean, I've just always said it and I still think it holds up, no matter what. Always wear your sunscreen, even if you're just going out to the mailbox to get your you know, your mail or your newspaper. Like it's just lights coming from everywhere and we're learning more and more about right the, the effects or the benefits of visible light, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like a bit more concerned, like you and I sitting at the computer right now, like what kind of exposure are we getting? You know the blue light? Or people are on their phones all day and kind of wondering you know, what's that going to do to my skin? You know, in the long run and you're right, I think we don't know necessarily for skin cancer per se, but definitely I guess if somebody is prone to hyperpigmentation or those types of changes, they might be a little bit more concerned. Or, you know, looking for those iron oxides and sunscreens. You know that might be helpful, you know, to kind of help with that potentially and that's another thing on the label. I feel like checking all these things off can definitely be challenging, but at higher SPFs people can also get that additional protection, which I think is useful too if they're kind of concerned about that.
Speaker 3:Because I think, although you know we focus on sunscreens, you know quite a bit, I think what's hard is there's just so many sunscreens out there, right, people are like what do I get? Do I get a spray? Do I get a stick? Do I get a lotion? You know, and I try to explain to people, you know we kind of call that the vehicle, the way your sunscreen, how it comes packaged or how it's sort of delivered to you and how you're going to put it on. Can you kind of clarify, you know, for people out there that are thinking, oh, sprays don't work as good as lotions, or they don't work as good as sticks, like what do you tell your patients? If they're you know, I tell them, whatever sunscreen, whatever vehicle, like you mentioned, they're comfortable with.
Speaker 1:That's the one that they should stick to, because that's the one that's going to work, because that's the one they're going to use. So I like the sticks, I like the lotions, I like the sprays. What a lot of people fail to realize with the sprays is that you do have to rub it in, just like a lotion and just like a stick. You can't just spray it and think you're good, you know, you spray it just for ease of, I think, application, but then it does need to be rubbed in for sure. I also, like I have a lot of patients, you know, always doing marathons in the city and they're always outside running, so they're sweating all the time and they don't want to put sunscreen on their face because they feel like it gets in their eyes or in their mouth.
Speaker 1:So then I recommend, like the powders Color Science was probably, I think, one of the first brands to create like powdered sunscreen. There's clear ones, there's tinted ones, whatever people want. And even for the scalp, like the part line, I always recommend sunscreen when people are out and if they don't want to do a spray or a lotion in their hair, like I wouldn't I don't know if you would. I always recommend the powders for that too. I think it's really helpful. So I think vehicle doesn't really matter, just as long as it's applied properly and it's used appropriately, like we've said about 20 times already on this talk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we've all been on the beach before and see people spraying. No, they're holding out here and most of it is dropping to the ground, not even coming in contact with their skin, and I'm like, well, yeah, that's probably why it didn't work, even though it's in the spring and blowing in the wind. Exactly. This brings up another point how you mentioned just paying attention to the part line in your scalp, because a lot of people do think, oh, I totally forget about my scalp and wind up burning. What about lips? Do you have any recommendations for what people should do for their lips, because that's another area that gets neglected with sunscreen use.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's for me. I always remind patients lips and ears, because when I do a screening and I see lots of freckles on the ears, I always remind my patients. It's so easy to forget your ears, you know, when you're applying your sunscreen. Don't forget that. And your lips, a lot of that. I say, if you can, if you can tolerate it, put your sunscreen on your lips too. I know it's kind of yucky tasting, but the great thing is there are so many lip products out there now that put SPF. Aquaphor has a couple of great ones. Even I think Clinique has their Moisture Surge Lip has some SPF in it. So I always recommend getting any kind of lip balm or any kind of lip sunscreen, for that matter, as well.
Speaker 3:And I have to ask because I feel like this is what more and more patients are coming in. You know again, we talked about all the different products. They go down the sunscreen aisle. They're like where do I even start? You know, they're feeling them, they're smelling them, trying to figure out what's going to be the best one. Like you said, one that they love is one they're going to use. What's all the hype and the rage with Korean sunscreens that you'll see on social media and people are just asking about? And how do you, you know, talk that through with patients about what you think they're valuable for?
Speaker 1:Well, Korean skincare has been trending for quite a while now, with snail mucin and bone tallow and whatever the heck else is out there, right? I don't know if that's Korean, but just I'm talking about trending things. I think Koreans do a really great job of making their skincare routine more of like a ritual. Making their skincare routine more of like a ritual, not so much as, like you know, their chores or a morning routine. So a lot of their products are, you know, with skincare in mind. So I think that also shows that their sunscreens also put a little bit more effort, you know, in skincare into it as well.
Speaker 1:So a lot of the Korean brands out there now have a combination, like you mentioned earlier, with the physical blockers and the chemical blockers as well. So a lot of the Korean brands out there now have a combination, like you mentioned earlier, with the physical blockers and the chemical blockers as well. Um, but they also infuse them with nice things like niacinamide, hyaluronic acid. Um, Centella Asiatica or Cica is in a lot of their products now too. So I think it's it's becoming more, you know, trending or in vogue, or because it's more like luxurious, you know, more of a ritual than just like I got to put my sunscreen on today, so I think that's a big feature and a nice factor of the Korean sunscreen products out there.
Speaker 3:I think their approach could benefit a lot of people. Like you said, like I think we do approach sometimes their skincare regimen like it is such a chore or one more thing to put on our list because people are busy. You know, no matter who you are, you've got busy days, and especially in the morning when you're barely awake and having coffee yet and you've got to take care of your skin. Or at night, you know it's been a crazy day and you just want to fall into bed. They might have the right approach and I, like the. You said that that putting your sunscreen on doesn't necessarily have to be a chore. It's just a part of self-care for your skin. So they may be onto something there, because I've seen some of the feedback and people talk about that or that. Their lighter weight or, you know, some of their mineral blockers blend a little bit better and you don't see as much as that white hue. And they may have some filters that we don't have. You know that aren't approved in the United States.
Speaker 3:But philosophy you mentioned is something that we should try to approach that you know. Sun protection is a part of, you know, self-care, just like you said, or a ritual. There's a psychological benefit to doing that, not just work at the end of the day. But I know it's philosophy we always want to do and it's brilliant to combine things. I think in our busy lifestyle you know, doing combo products is wonderful. If you can get antioxidants in with your sunscreen or other things, that's just a bonus, a total bonus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pulling double and triple duty.
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly. That is the world we live in. Any other thoughts on sunscreen or you know things you want to leave the audience with today on your thoughts on sunscreen as they head out this summer.
Speaker 1:As a dermatopathologist and a Mohs surgeon, I hate to scare people and I don't want to say threaten, but I always tell my patients you would much rather just feel uncomfortable for a few hours at the beach with your sunscreen than have me or someone else come at you with a scalpel, you know, to have a skin cancer removed. It's scary, you know it's. At the end of the day it's surgery. You know you're having something of your skin removed because it's got cancer. You know, and I always just try to put a little fear into people to get them to use their sunscreen.
Speaker 1:But, um, you know, and the last statement that we mentioned, too, I try to make it seem like it's a ritual. You know a lot of the. You know the sunscreens now, like, especially for women, um, or people who are interested in doing makeup, you know this, they're being combined. You know a lot of the skincare products now also have sunscreen in them. Um, a lot of them are in in powders and foundations and you know I just try to, you know, show people that it's, it's not a chore. You know it really can be like more of a ritual or you know something that you can enjoy doing for yourself.
Speaker 3:But you bring up a good point that we can talk about. What do you tell women say, oh, I'm good on sunscreen, it's in my foundation, and they kind of blow off, like maybe using sunscreen elsewhere, maybe don't think about, hey, there's other places you don't put your foundation. What do you tell women about that Cause, think about, hey, there's other places you don't put your foundation. What do you tell women about that?
Speaker 1:Because that's a good point, even though we're sort of summarizing everything. What do you tell them about the makeup issue and sunscreen? I say it's good that there are your skincare products that you like that are infused with sunscreen. Please make sure it's 30 or higher. 15, I don't think is enough, I even prefer 50, but I'll take 30 if that's what's there. But then I remind them, every sun exposed area needs to be covered. So even you know, if you're walking outside and you put sunscreen on your face and you're, you know you're wearing like a tank top, you know, or a t-shirt, what about your neck? What about your chest? What about the backs of your hands? You know you got to remember to put sunscreen everywhere. And if you're putting your makeup there with sunscreen, that's fine, but you probably aren't.
Speaker 3:So make sure you're putting sunscreen on those areas too. Good final thoughts. So sunscreen or be afraid of the scalpel, according to Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 3:This has been great. I think people are going to learn so much about just sunscreen things they haven't really thought of and then kind of a way to just, you know, make it a part of the routine. Like you said, think of it as self-care, like anything else that we're recommending, you know, for our patients to do. So thanks again for coming on chatting more with us. For our listeners that they want to find you where can they locate you online or more about your practice.
Speaker 1:Sure, my practice is called True Dermatology in New York City. We're in Flatiron. I'm on Instagram DrSpizDerm, TikTok the same, and Facebook, so if anyone wants to, just you know, check out my tips, find me there.
Speaker 3:Well, thanks again for coming on the podcast. It was great to chat with you, as always. And stay tuned for the next episode of Dermot Trotter Don't Swear About Skincare.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to Dermot Trotter. For more about skincare, visit DermotTrottercom. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share this podcast with anyone who needs a little skincare sanity. Until next time, stay skin smart.
