Derm-it Trotter! Don't Swear About Skincare.
Feeling frustrated or overwhelmed with everything skin? Does the skinformation overload make you want to swear about skincare? Join Dr. Shannon C. Trotter, board certified dermatologist, as she talks with fellow dermatologists and colleagues in skincare to help separate fact from fiction and simplify the world of skin. After listening, you won’t swear about skincare anymore!
Derm-it Trotter! Don't Swear About Skincare.
Skincare Trends 2025: What’s Trot (Hot) And What’s Not
Sun-kissed without the sun, tallow on your face, tape on your wrinkles, salmon sperm for “collagen”—2025 skincare got weird. We go trend by trend and ask the only question that matters: is it safe, effective, and worth your time?
We break down melanotan and drinkable tanning drops (hard no), give beef tallow a nuanced reality check, explain why double cleansing can help—or hurt—your skin, and dig into barrier repair, Cicaplast, diaper cream, and hydrating masks. We compare face taping to neuromodulators, cover when LED masks actually work, walk through smart skin cycling, and demystify hypochlorous acid as a budget MVP. And yes, we tackle salmon sperm facials—what PDRN promises, what the data actually shows, and why novelty glow isn’t the same as results. We wrap with how AI may personalize routines without replacing expert care.
If you liked this trot-or-not deep dive, follow the show, share it with a skincare-obsessed friend, and leave a quick review. Your skin will thank you.
Welcome to the Derma Chatter Don't Swear About Skin Care podcast. We're here with her at the end of your review and talking about social media trends with none other than my social media manager, Amanda.
SPEAKER_00:Board certified social media manager.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:I finished. All right, so we're going over the 2025 skincare trends. These are all online, which is what makes them unsettling and slightly different. First off, we've got melanitan and tanning drops. So melanotan, as I understand, is injectable and ingestible.
SPEAKER_02:There are different ways you can get it. Yeah. And it's important to point out there's two different types of melanotan. So there's a type one and a type two. And the type two is what we're talking about that was developed out back in the 90s. It's considered an illicit drug. So something that people can order sort of illegally online, banned in the US, UK, other countries. And it was coined the Barbie drug. So I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but it was because you get tanned, um, it can suppress your appetite. And in particular for men, it could cause them to have an eruption longer. And for women, maybe some reports have increased sexual arousal as well. So it was coined this Barbie drug. And so people are still using it because that desire to tan is still there.
SPEAKER_00:Is there a difference between injectable and ingestible? And how does it relate to parent eating?
SPEAKER_02:Well, a little bit different. So melanoma tan is a little different than what you would think of, I think, classically, and people think about the tanning drops, which actually then tanning drops are a little confusing because you can buy wands that we would support as dermatologists that you can add in from a moisturizer. Okay. And it can kind of the fake tan that we tend to promote, you know, similar to like a sprite tan. But then you have the drops that people want to consume or drink. And I think that's the other area where we don't recommend that because of potential health issues. So tanning drops can be a little confusing depending upon what you're referencing. So the ones that you typically people will try to drink, we don't recommend. But the other ones that you can actually put in a moisturizer like your cetophil, your ceramic on a daily basis, those we tend to be okay with as dermatologists. And you can find those in your beauty stores, things like that. So I do think there's like some confusion with the drop piece. The ones you drink, no, no, no, not trot. The ones you can add into your moisturizer, they can be trot, you know, and we prefer people to get a tan that way. Or you know how you might buy an over-the-counter self-tanner product, or you might actually go and get a spray tan. That's the way to get a tan safely.
SPEAKER_00:If we're not drinking tanning drops, are we allowed to eat 10 carrots a day? Yes.
SPEAKER_02:So those drops, too, that people talk about, you know, often they are going to be derived from carapnoids or these things that are included in vegetables, plant material that we typically you might actually eat, but nobody wants to eat a giant bag of carrots to get tan all the time. But these are derivatives that are put into those drops that people want to drink and then get a glow. Often it's more of an orangey glow. So it's not something that's always cosmetically acceptable either. But we tell people stay clear of those. Again, go for those bronzing type drops that you add into your moisturizer and apply to your skin, do your self-tanner, or definitely go get a spray tanned.
SPEAKER_00:What kind of things can people expect to happen if you ingest too much of those?
SPEAKER_02:It's hard to know everything with melanotan or those ingestible drops that can happen because they aren't regulated. But some of the reports, when they've looked at what could happen, definitely can get GI upsets. So people get nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. Some people, especially with melanotan, have had an impact on blood pressure, risk been elevated, they've had flushing, they have neurological problems. And then more concerning, it can actually cause internal organ damage, potentially to the liver or the kidneys. So some of this has been reported in the literature. And because we just don't know enough about it, we don't have good studies to establish safety or efficacy. We tell people stay clear of those things. A tan, getting a tan that way is just not worth it. Yeah. So if if you are stimulating your melanocytes, which are your pigment-producing cells, to produce pigment, typically they're doing so in response to ultraviolet light to simply protect your skin. It's their body's way of protecting itself. That's why we tell people there's no such thing as a safe tan. A tan is truly sun damage because that's why your body's doing it. So when you actually go and get, you know, a spray tan, or you're using a self-bronzer that you're doing, maybe your Jergens everyday glow and you're trying to get that little bit of tan, you're not really, you know, stimulating those melanocytes per se, as much as you're adding a little bit of temperatmentation to the skin to provide you with that bronze flip that you're going for.
SPEAKER_00:So obviously, this is not trot.
SPEAKER_02:Not trot.
SPEAKER_00:Which, if you're new here, that means hot. Not hot to trot. Not hot to trot, not trot.
SPEAKER_01:100% not trot.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect. And number two, we've got your favorite beef tallow. Oh yeah, oh yeah. This is rendered animal fat. They believe that it mimics the skin's natural lipids and supports the barrier. So it's usually, you know, the anti-chemical movement, and they say that our ancestors used it. Yeah. So it's possible. Yeah. Is there any dermatologic logic behind this, or does formulation matter more than ingredient simplicity?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm probably not the big hater on beef tallow as much as my colleagues are. You know, I tell people, is it trotish trotish? Like there is some value to beef taut if you look at what's in it. It does have fatty acids in it, like oleic acid that can help support a healthy skin barrier. In addition, there's vitamins A and E, which are antioxidants. So it can also be potentially helpful. Do we have studies though to support it? No. And that's where a lot of dermatologists go. And I think it drives patients crazy because we're like, what's the data? What does the study show? And sometimes you just have to rely on anecdotal evidence. Your patient comes in and says, My skin's doing a lot better. I'm using this beef tallow product over yes, maybe this other product you recommend it. And to me, it's not the end of the world, right? If they're still doing sun protection and they're using a sunscreen and they're doing a great cleanser and moisturizer, maybe they're doing a topical vitamin A in the evening, like a retinoid or tretnoin or vitamin C in the morning, they're doing great skincare. A beef tallow, they feel like really helps supplement that moisturizer and works for them. I'm not going to make a big deal over it or argue it. Right. You know, if you're worried about what could happen, it can be rather occlusive. So some people who tend to break out, it may not be the best option for, right? It caused more acne. And it's an occlusive agent too. So if you did put on your topical retinoid or an exfoliate, sometimes adding it over top of it could actually make those, you know, more potent. And then you could have some irritation factor actually because of how you're using it. So a lot of people, if they want to use, you know, beef tally tell them, you always are going to take a little tester behind the neck here, see if you're allergic to it. And then let's just see how your skin responds. But you want to be careful of the occlusive nature. So again, do I always recommend it? No, it's not my first go-to. But if I have a patient who sort of leans toward products like that and wants to integrate it in, I can work with them to see if it's going to help. But I'd also tell them I have other things that are supported by better evidence that are going to be beneficial too for your skin.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Comment questions online are why did it help their dryness but worsen their acne? Why don't you kind of just touch a little too much on that? No, that's okay. It would potentially break out more acne-prone skin.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so it's an it's just like slugging, you know. So you have, you know, a petrolatin product, you use Vaseline, Aquifor, a Cerebee ointment, you know, being able to use an ointment-based product, you're trying to really seal in a moisturizer that you put on first and apply it. You know, it can be occlusive. And the same thing can happen with beef tali for some patients. And then some patients, their skin's very sensitive to that and it aggravates their acne. So it wouldn't be my first go-to in an acne-prone patient. And I think that's one thing, too, that people don't realize you may think it sounds like a great idea. And this is the realm of trends. They sound like everything to jump on, but every trend isn't for every patient, right? There's some that we don't think really have any merit, and some might have a little bit, but again, it has to be specific to the patient and their unique skin needs.
SPEAKER_00:So mostly trot just depends on the person.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I tell people it's trotish. Yeah. So I tell like when it scale, you know, out of 10, I give like a four out of 10, you know, is what I tell people. And again, I'm not gonna, you know, push it, but I'm not the big hater that they're you know that big towel is evil. You know, yeah, you know, it's now being used, you know, all over the place. It's very popular now.
SPEAKER_00:I know. Obviously, you've talked about double cleansing before. We like double cleansing, it removes makeup, SPF. So we like an oil cleanser followed up with a foaming cleanser, correct?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I usually tell an oil, so when you double cleanse, I like double cleansing. I told you it's really not that much of an extra step. If you're putting sunscreen on every day and makeup, you need to take it off. And so you're gonna do something anyway. So the double cleanse is two steps. One, you're gonna use the micellar water or oil-based cleanser first. Well, then buy typically a dental cleanser. Sometimes people might mix that cleanser off depending upon their own unique skin needs, but for the majority of people to recommend it, I tell them go with a micellar water oil base, then a gentle.
SPEAKER_00:So if people worry about stripping their skin, is that why the oil base first is important?
SPEAKER_02:No, not necessarily. The oil base is important because it actually dissolves makeup and sunscreen. So if you think about it, makeup tends to have other components to it. You need to kind of break that down a little bit. And our typical cleansers just don't tend to remove all of it. Okay. So the micellar water oil based actually helps dissolve that makeup and part of the sunscreen components too. So it actually kind of takes that away. So for people that are worried that I have dry skin, intensive skin, a double cleanse sounds too harsh. Typically it's not because they're gonna be gentle in nature. And again, we're following with a gentle cleanser. And if you do have extra dry skin, you could follow with a hydrating cleanser. If you're a little bit on the oily end, you might have, you know, a salicylic acid cleanser, especially if you have acne or something like that. So you could vary that second step a little bit, but sometimes when we don't know, we don't want to recommend too many things. So we typic tend to say just go gentle, right? Or go with a basic one and then talk with your dermatologist about changing that up if you need to.
SPEAKER_00:There's a theory or at least just a narrative out there that double cleansing with an oil cleanser specifically, not even micellar water, that it can shrink your pores and it can get out sebaceous filaments and things like that. Does that is that true?
SPEAKER_02:No, I mean, unfortunately, I mean, shrinking your pores, our pores are genetically determined the size. I got the big ones, you know. So I tell people like, no, keeping your pores clean and open is what actually tends to make them look less apparent or large. If they get clogged with material, it could be a sebaceous, you know, it's kind of like calling oil worms, you know, people miss a lot on their face, particularly the nose area. I get them all the time. And then also, too, I tell you if you get clogged with like a black head, white head, it's gonna stretch that pore and make it look larger. So if you are able to get that material out, it tends to make it then look smaller. So double cleansing wouldn't be the primary purpose to really, you know, necessarily do that per se. But if you have a little bit of superficial dirt or debris kind of collecting, yeah, it'll help get rid of that. And makeup, if it's kind of there, will help a little bit too to kind of clear that out. But in general, pore size, yeah. The bad news, we're kind of stuck with what we've got. Um, there are some mechanical things procedure-wise, you can do over time that might help them look a little smaller, refined, if you will, and then topical retinoids as well.
SPEAKER_00:So if somebody thinks that their pore size has shrunk or they're less apparent from double cleansing, is it most likely that they're just cleaning their face better than they were before?
SPEAKER_02:Probably, yeah. Because there's no magic line. If we can invent that with a double cleanse, I think I get everyone to do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And it's the extra step, right? We all want, you know, what's easy. And we love that too as dermatologists, concise and simple. Yeah. But the double cleanse for me is a must if you're using that sunscreen or makeup.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And it's not just for faces. That's kind of it out.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. That's good to know too. The next thing I want to talk about, this is kind of a two-parter. So I think it's sycoplast or is it psychoplast? I say sycoplast. Okay. Sycoplast has been a huge trend and barrier creams and things like that. And the two-parter here is diaper cream, but they're both being used for healing, skin barrier, acne, and irritation, and things like that. Do you what do you think about sycoplast? How often should people use them? And which one is better?
SPEAKER_02:I I mean, I love sycoplasts as one of my favorites. Uh, you know, and using other barrier creams are great too. So going back to kind of the fact I think you talked about it could help with the skin barrier, I think that's very true. If you think about it, a baby's bottom, you're protecting it from urine, you're protecting it from poop, right? Because they get irritated. And so it creates a nice barrier protectant. Well, you know, your hands, other parts of the body too get exposed to a lot of other things that irritate it. So those products can be useful there. When people put them on the face, it sometimes can be helpful. But again, it's the same thing we talked about before, where if it's too occlusive and that acne prone patient, those might not be the best products for them. It actually might be too much for them, where it could cause them to break out more. And the patient that can tolerate it or is very dry and it's beneficial, those being added on even to the face can be helpful too. But they are great products. I definitely think as treatment for acne, not such a smart plan because of how they can actually cause acne for a lot of patients. Okay. You know, and I think people don't realize that at the time or maybe they think it has a slight drying effect. We have so many other options that are proven with studies, with data, that we can say, hey, this actually works for acne. If you have acne, let me prescribe this, or we can recommend even some over-the-counter medications that can be effective too. Primarily using that for acne, not the best plan. And then some of the acne ingredients they might be using, if they're putting that over top, it might be a little too much, too, where it's too occlusive and it could add to additional irritation because it might increase the absorption into the skin.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So trots, but to be used for irritation, barrier only. Skin barrier healing, that's my next one here. This has been a trend for a while, is skin barrier healing, which you've obviously talked about several times in a lot of these trends. But does that feel like an overused buzzword to you? Are there a lot of things being promoted as skin barrier healing? Do you feel like people worry too much about their skin barrier or not worry enough? Or how do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_02:I like that people are becoming familiar with the term a little bit more because we do need to think of our skin as more than just how great it looks in the vanity component. But usually if your skin's healthier and it's functioning as the barrier should, it's going to look good. That's what I usually tell my patients. You can actually have the best of both worlds. You're going to accomplish the goal. Your skin is a barrier, right? It's your protective armor against the world. And so repairing it, making sure it's strong is really important. And then all the things that we're doing to it to disrupt it create a lot of problems. Now, sometimes we're purposely causing some disruption because when we do that, it can help, you know, stimulate collagen and other things, but we shouldn't do it to the point that it actually creates, you know, breaks in the skin, craps in the skin. It actually can lead to a disruption of the microbiome, all the fun bacteria, yeast, fungus, you know, all the things, viruses that live on skin that need to be there and live in harmony. So talk about if we talk about the barriers, but you just want your skin to be a strong barrier that's balanced. Okay. And you have to be careful what you're doing because if you rock that balance off, that's where we see a lot of skin problems for patients. So I like that people were thinking about a little bit more kind of this technical term. And yeah, products are being marketed that way too, which I think is important as well. And it can be a balance. And everyone's barrier is a little different because of just maybe our age, how much sun exposure we've had over time, genetics as well. And then other things we've been exposed to, like pollution, you know. So I took our scan barriers are different, you know, throughout our lifetime, and also just based on our background. So I think it's important that we really focus on it on being so important because that's essential for skin health. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So extra trot.
SPEAKER_02:Trotties. I like the barrier conversation. Yeah. Um, but people can always take it too far, as you know, too. Always. And and again, you know, marketing, you know, can always use that to kind of pull people in. So it's still a conversation about your own individual unique needs and what your skin needs so that we create a good balance with that barrier.
SPEAKER_00:Trotties worry about their skin barrier.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Would you say it's kind of similar to gut health? The same way you need that balance of bacteria and things like that. Maybe if you hear bacteria, fungus, virus, you think, ugh, we don't want that. But if it lives in harmony, that's a bit more. Correct.
SPEAKER_02:Because we have a lot of things in our skin. It's like a petri dish, like anything else.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I tell people, you know, hydrated skin with a good balance of your microbiome is healthy skin. You're going to be less likely to rash, get dried out, get inflamed, get irritated. You have underlying conditions like acne, eczema, we're going to be able to treat those more effectively because you're going after the foundation of your skin. You're making sure the bones, if you will, of your skin are solid and they're healthy. How long would it take to heal a skin barrier? It varies. Some people have a very injured barrier. Like so, if you take, for example, somebody with terrible eczema, their skin barrier could be severely impaired. They have a lot of inflammation, the immune system's turned on in the skin. So it's feeling this process, they may have scratched. So if they've scratched their skin, they may have what we call expiration marks everywhere. They can have bacterial infection now, of course, too. So for lack of better term, their barrier could just be a hot mess. And then you just have somebody comes in, oh, I have, you know, my skin's a little bit irritated. Maybe they're using the tretinoin too frequently, and their skin's a little dried out and irritated. And we just have to reset their skin. So it just depends on sort of what people are doing, underlying conditions. So we see a whole range, a wide range. And sometimes your barrier is doing great and you can't help it. The weather flips, and all of a sudden you're like, yeah, great, now my skin barrier is again a hot mess. So you have to modify and you have to roll with it. It's dynamic. Your skin's dynamic based on kind of the environment, what's around you, your immune system, and then the underlying skin condition.
SPEAKER_00:So next up, we're going to talk about the morning shed, which we've talked about before. Yeah. This is also a two-part, maybe multi-part question. So obviously, people are using tapes, they're mouth taping. I'm a mouth taper. Um, I'm a mouth reader. Yeah, a little bit really embarrassing. I didn't know that. And so my husband demonstrated how it looks so adorable. You should insert some video then. No, I would you would never see my face again. So people are mouth taping, they're using tape for fine lines and stuff like that, which will also get to that. It's another huge trend right now. Mostly it's, you know, lip masks, overnight absorbing masks. What do you think about it?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think the chatting thing is kind of crazy. I'm all about like working smarter, not harder. And so I think with twofold, what bothers me about it, one is this pursuit of perfection. And then sometimes, you know, maybe I'm a bad dermatologist because I told me, you know, do you really need to pursue perfect skin? I'm like, no, you need to be in the best skin that works for you. And we all come with different skin issues and problems. It doesn't get much better. But in a world where nobody ever has a breakout or a flaw, it's just not feasible. And I think we set people up for failure and we feed into body image issues people have. And then, of course, the things we're talking about on social media, right? This idea of perfection. And I love to be in a perfectionist, but I'm also willing to accept things that are imperfect. And I always tell people, you know, your skin doesn't define you. You're so much more than that. So that's one thing I don't love about this trend of perfectionism piece. And then two, it's just the obsession with doing all these steps, right? We want skincare to be simple, concise. You know, that's the biggest thing. It doesn't need to be complex. And I think this creates like this whole regimen that really doesn't have probably, you know, from our standpoint, a lot of value in the long run for what it's going to do for your skin. Now, somebody just wants to spend their time doing that and they're ritualistic and they just find the process relaxing, and like go for it. But if you're truly trying to improve things for your skin, we have better things that again have data behind them and studies that just show they work better. Yeah. But but it is entertaining to watch. And I have to give a shout out there for people that have the dedication. Yeah. Because it's amazing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So is glass skin actually achievable?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I think it's what you're trying to go for. It is it achievable? Probably for some patients. They can get more of that look. But a lot of people might have underlying sun damage or wrinkles that are already there, or again, they have issues with acne, so they can't use some of those products. So does it mean we can't get them to a point where they can try to go after glass skin? Like, no, I think working toward that is good. I think we always should strive to do our best, but also we know in life that our best is going to be different than your best, right? There's always somebody who's smarter, taller, prettier, and can do the job maybe better than us. And for saniting, it doesn't mean we're not going to work toward that. But I think just to have that balance of a little bit of humility would give people so much better peace of mind and really help with, I think, our self-esteem and confidence that is driven by skin having to be perfect.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. So for an overnight absorbing mass, most of them are collagen or extra hydrating. But obviously, with hydration masks, I feel like with what we've talked about, you know, it might work for you, it might not. But with collagen specifically, you've talked a little, we talked a little bit about this last year that you need hydrolyzed collagen, I believe is what it's called.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, when you're doing like supplements, we're talking about hydrolyzed collagen and stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Does it actually work through a mask?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I think that's the thing with these masks. I I think if you are looking for kind of like a short-term plump effect, these masks can be beneficial, right? Okay. Now, most of the time, even though they may have collagen in them, a lot of them have hyaluronic acid or other humbectants. They're actually pulling water into the skin either from the air or from deeper layers, and that's what's giving you that beautiful plump look. So I love these hydrating masks. If you know I've been trallied, I'm a little dry, I have an event I'm going to. So to me, I think there's benefit there in the short term. Do these masks, we have data to show these are going to stimulate and create collagen in the skin? No, we have great data for things like tretinoin that show that it is really the go for that. Yeah. And so to do these, we just have to set expectations. If you like doing the mask, because to me it's fun to do a mask, right? It's relaxing, get a cup of you know, coffee or you know, maybe a glass of wine person at the end of the day, just a little self care. Just understand again expectations. And I think that's what we have to set that it's gonna help with that more immediate plump. But this isn't really gonna be stimulating collagen for you in the long run.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, good to know. Another part of the morning shed obviously is the face taping versus botons. We've got two Botox users right here. Does that help any? Because there are there are frownies, which I believe is just tape. Some people use just whatever tape they find that's not irritating to them. And then we also have scar. Is it scar tape that they say promote collagen for your fine lines? Does any of that actually work better than Botox?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think no. So I mean office supplies don't replace neuromodulators. Like I tell you, you know, toxins are still the way to go, especially for those wrinkles we get with movement, right? Now face taping is interesting in that it could help with lines that develop potentially from like sleep creases. And you know, so when we sleep, especially if you're a side sleeper, you can develop lines over time from actually sleeping. A little different than the lines we're getting from like smiling, raising our eyebrows, you know, the lines that we actually go after with neurotoxins like Botox, Dysport, Daxopysium, and the whole like, you know, you know, gamut of them. So ITMO maybe could help a little bit with sleep lines per se. But in general, I too know it's not worth, I think, the investment in time. You're much better off using your sunscreen. And then also, you know, a form of vitamin A, other antioxidant like vitamin C that we know promote collagen development over time. They reverse, you know, the damage we do to our skin from sun exposure as well as pollution. And they're actually going to have that promotion for morning. So to take, again, I don't think so valuable. Um definitely can interfere with breathing, as much as you can use it to help with breathing. And then the adhesive part, people forget about. We see a lot of irritation from it. Yeah. And so I don't think it's really necessary what to trade off the time or the investment, especially because we just don't have the studies to support it. And we've got great other options for you to actually achieve those goals.
SPEAKER_00:So morning shed, do we think it's trot or not? Totally not. And face taping, not trot.
SPEAKER_01:Not trot.
SPEAKER_00:Not trot. So red light masks, can those replace Botox or anything like that at all? What kind of benefits does that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I tell you with red light devices, not really replacement. I always think of them as an add-in to help support all the other things you're doing to maintain your skin health. In particular, yes, people are using them for fine-line sprinkling as well as even potentially acne. So we tell them they're a little different than what you can get, you know, in an in-office procedure. So not going to be as potent. But I often tell you, yes, they can be supportive if you're doing in-office or all diet, they can help maintain results. The hard part with doing that at home is consistency. Typically, to see the results most people want, you're going to be doing it frequently throughout the week. Some people will argue based on the device, they'll have recommendations. Does it need to be daily? Does it need to be four days a week, five days a week? It's consistent. And most people say, yeah, it probably needs to be almost every day to have the full benefit depending upon the device that you may have. And so I think that's the big piece there is that it's just hard to be that consistent. But again, if people like it, they can do it periodically, they may see some benefit. There's different settings sometimes in these devices too for acne or fine lines of wrinkling. So you can use those, you know, in conjunction with each other, depending upon what you're trying to treat. So totally a great add-in, is what I tell people to what they're doing. So fully support those that people are going to use those devices. And then again, you just want to make sure that they actually say FDA cleared. That's one thing as a dermatologist when we recommend particular devices. Everyone has their favorite, but that is something you want to look for, that actual wording, uh, because they will put other FDA claims on it, but really it's FDA cleared. That's the important piece.
SPEAKER_00:LED masks trot, but they're not a replacement for toxins.
SPEAKER_02:No, not I always think of things as we always build on things in dermatology. I tell you, there's no one like, right, that's going to fix everything, but it can accomplish certain goals. And then I'd also say with red light devices, one thing to take into account if somebody is prone to hyperpigmentation or has melasma, it could potentially make those conditions worse. So it's not always a good fit. So again, it's one of those things, you know, trends can catch on, we can support them, but you really need to look at the individual patient and their skin needs.
SPEAKER_00:And another thing too I wanted to add is you were talking about building in dermatology and there's never gonna be a replacement. Aging is a privilege. It is. People are way too focused on anti-aging. You will not be 90 with your like mask, photox, brownies, warned. That's yeah, Martha's work is the exception.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. I mean, but I tell people it's just one of those things, you know, you embrace it, you focus on your skin health, and that's gonna lead to your best outcome for skin. So that's why I also too I'm so surprised when people will spend hundreds of dollars on different skincare products, and I'll even ask them what to use sunscreen every day. And often they say no. And I'm shocked where they could get, you know, a$25 sunscreen that would actually serve them better than something's products they're spending hundreds of dollars on.
SPEAKER_00:I'm saving the best for last. I'm excited. We're not there yet. No, we're gonna talk about that was a letdown. I gotta keep you keep you hooked. Yes. So skin cycling. This has kind of come back up, at least on my social media in recent months, was a big thing like a few years ago. It's alternating exfoliation nights, retinoid nights, and recovery nights. Do you think that that's well, I want to hear your thoughts on it, and I want to know if it's not for everyone, who is it for?
SPEAKER_02:I love skin cycling. So this was developed by Dr. Whitney Bo, and it was kind of coined and went viral on TikTok. And it was really meant to try to help patients and people do skincare routines that have potential irritation factor to them, tolerate ingredients, right? Topical retinoids, vitamin A creams can be irritating, cause redness, you know, increase skin cell turnover, people get dry with them. Same thing too when you exfoliate, right? And people want the best of both worlds. They often want to be able to do both. And somebody that has more sensitive skin, or maybe they never tried any of those products, it's really hard for them to just start right out of the gate doing it immediately every day right away. And we don't recommend that typically anyway. So this concept behind skin cycling developed to really help people develop a process where they could actually kind of get the advantage of using those products, but tolerate them more and give the skin, you know, some rest or periods of rest. Okay. So the concept of skin cycling I too is pretty simple. So night one, you do typically a chemical exfoliant. It might be an alpha hydroxy acid, like a glycolic acid. Some people might even use halicylic acid, a beta hydroxy acid. Then the next night you take a recovery night or break and just hydrate or moisturize. The following night, day three, that's when you would use a top-level vitamin A. That might be a form of retinol over the counter, maybe even prescription strength, tretinoin. And then when you go to day four, again, you take another night of recovery, rest, and hydration and moisturize. So I always tell my patients that this is a great way to kind of get you acclimated. And sometimes we even skip the exfoliation for a little while. It's just too much for people to do. And we add it in later, but it acclimates their skin, gets it used to it so that they can actually tolerate some of these medicines. So I think it's a great solution. The other thing, too, it's interesting is more information comes out, these studies of looking at our skin, the repair mechanisms at night, there are some theories that maybe we're overstimulating our skin too much with using topical retinoids every night, you know, antioxidants during the day, you know, we're exploiting, maybe people are doing laser procedures to rejuvenate or something else mechanical in office. And we're just not giving the skin time to relax and truly rejuvenate and recover. And so some people wonder at some point will that sort of like hypothesis that we need more time translate into more of a skin cycling as kind of the recommended routine? Will we shift from doing retinoids every night to maybe even doing them periodically and still see benefit? I have colleagues now, they're like, no, I mean, if you're only using retinoid a couple nights a week, you don't derive any benefit. That's what people will say, and it's based on how they're studied. But have we really looked at these regimens and periods of rest to see how the skin might change and do? And I think they're gonna look first, you know, in animal studies, probably study some mice rats, look at this, see how it affects their skin. That's where there's some of the suggestion. Yeah. It could be overstimulating, which I think is fascinating. Yeah. So I think skin cycling will cycle back, it's gonna keep coming around for tolerability. And it might have some science behind it that it's valuable too for truly maintaining skin health and optimizing that repair.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah. That's good to know. Because another thing I wanted to touch on, it's not necessarily a huge trend, but just how many actives are in, you know, a 10-step routine and things like that. I feel like, you know, we're using salicylic acid maybe in a cleanser every day. Do you think there's anyone who can use actives like that every day? Like maybe they shouldn't skin cycle and they should always be using an active and maybe a retinol in there a couple nights a week.
SPEAKER_02:This is where, you know, it's hard because when we talk in social media, we talk a lot of times in general terms.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And it's really down to your specific skin needs and tolerability. If you are blessed with sensitive skin, it's harder for you to do those things. And so you may not be able to tolerate all those additives and you have to do very bland and basic things for a while. And if you want to bring something in, you're gonna probably do weaker forms of like a topical retinoid or vitamin C because you need to see how your skin handles it. Maybe gradually you can increase potency. And then you might stay away from all these extra things. You might just be doing gentle cleanser or hydrating cleanser. And then somebody who maybe has been doing a vitamin A for a while, they kind of have tougher skin, oilier skin. Barrier of steel. Yes, they may be more likely to be able to handle that stuff. So that's where I think it's hard because you know, we speak in general terms, and then we'll try to like put things out like if you have oily skin, you might be able to do this, but it's not a one-size-fits-all for skincare. And I think that's what's so unique, and that's where AI is gonna help us probably. Okay. Or we'll help develop, you know, some of these skincare regimens or look down probably at the molecular level for people's skin and probably to be able to develop regimens or what you can tolerate of what you can do. That's where skincare is really moving, which I think is exciting for tech. Yeah. But in it, you know, overall, I think you know, the additives, there's so many things you can do, including where we're when to do them. But do you necessarily need to be doing them all? No. I do know in addition to again stay with a gentle cleanser to be safe, you know, a good moisturizer. The three things I recommend is doing a form of vitamin A in the evening, vitamin C in the morning, and your sunscreen. Those are your three essentials for skincare. Yeah. And if people can keep it that basic, if you want additives, you're like, I'm gonna mix up my cleanser, you know, talk with your dermatologist, make sure you're gonna tolerate it. Or if you're like, oh, I'm interested in chemical exfoliants. I want to add that in. We'll talk with them about the type, the concentration, and how frequent. Okay. Just so you're not overdoing it. Is purging a thing? You mean from the same way that acne can flare up?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or more like maybe, for example, like I have pretty clear skin just because of, you know, hormonal adjustments and uh spiral lactone and things like that. So my skincare routine can be kind of simplified because I have orals that do a lot for my skin. But if I want to add something in, so let's say I start using tritinoline for the first time and within a couple weeks I start breaking out more, is that okay? Or is that a sign that you should cut back on it?
SPEAKER_02:It's not a sign that you should cut back. It can happen with some of our medications, in particular, our topical and oral retinoids that we use to treat acne. That kind of like purge effect can happen. And there's some things you can do to kind of help with that a little bit as well. But there's certain medicines that just tends to happen with. When people are actually using topicals and they tend to break out, often it's the topical itself that you just don't tolerate. It's not necessarily a purge. But some people will say, Yeah, I used it for a while, it seemed to irritate me a little bit, and then it seemed to calm down. Okay. And so some people will claim that again, it's it's harder to explain that. Maybe it was an irritation factor, maybe it was coincidental.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But for the most part, I tell you, if you are able to use it and it's not bothering you, that's great. If you get a little purge effect, there's certain things we'll warn you. Definitely tretone is one of those. We have to give people the heads up. Okay. And some people will see that, other people don't. And so you just want to make sure people know that if that happens, it tends to be temporary. And there are things we can do to kind of keep that calm. And then also it can be worth it. It's just kind of getting through a little bit of the hump before you get over it. Yeah. And then you see the benefits.
SPEAKER_00:And that's usually like six to eight weeks you give products time to work, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, that's the way you mentioned sometimes, even for other regimens, we'll tell people 12 to 16. So the one thing that I always tell them is we always want better skin yesterday. We want our best skin now. And so it's very difficult to tell someone, hey, slow and studying wins the race, especially when we're treating acne, because people want to give up and go to the next thing, and then they try the next day, and then the next day, and before you know it, they spent$200 in Sephora. Yeah. And their acne is actually worse, not better. So patience is key, being simple with the regimen, making sure you tell your dermatologist everything you're using, because people forget to mention it. Actually, it can make you their acne worse. We don't even know. Yeah. And it's working against the regimen. But some patience really pays off. You definitely have to put a little time into it, and you got to be consistent. A lot of people they're not actually following the regimen is recommended. And we need to find out why. Maybe something we've prescribed is too irritating. Maybe it's the smell, the feel, the texture. So it's also on our end, too, to find out why maybe it's not working.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So if someone has a new product that they say changed their skin in two days, probably not. Probably not. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I usually tell it, you know, it's for my friends listening. I tell it, you know, if there was something like that, I mean it would really catch on. But sometimes it's just coincidental. It's lucky. I mean, I tell you, you know, and it just could be something to have, but we don't really have a great miracle cure, especially for the acne realm, unfortunately. That is one of the things we tell people try to be patient. But it's frustrating. We get it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, so skin cycling, definite trot.
SPEAKER_02:It is a trot. Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect. So best for last, we have salmon sperm stations. Oh, yeah. Got it. So you have heard of these?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yes. Okay. A lot of people, I mean, they're they're being done here in the United States. A lot of people have had them overseas too, and like come back and be like, oh my gosh, this is the next best thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. So do you think it's worth it?
SPEAKER_02:I think there's challenges with it because you know it's not being regulated. That's one of the problems, too. But the whole concept behind it is there is a molecule that's found in salmon DNA. So what's unique about salmon sperm facials is actually what it's derived from. So if you look at the salmon DNA, there's actually a component called PDRN. Poly, let me try to say it here. Polydioxy ribonucleotide. So I know mispronounce this. So again, it's something that, you know, has been known, we think to be assistive with DNA repair mechanisms, can help maybe potentially stimulate collagen. And it's actually not necessarily new. They they actually looked back and there were some uh fishermen that have actually used salmon sperm historically to treat non-healing wounds. So it's not like it's a total novel concept. I think just with putting it into skincare in light of like the anti-aging movement, what else can we do? We're always looking for the next best thing, right? Of course. And this is fun because it gets your attention. Yeah. But it is brought with some challenges because the components aren't really regulated here by the FDA in the United States. And so there can be some challenges with that not being regulated, regulated about, you know, potency, safety, and those types of things. However, it's still being offered. I mean, there are places where you can get a salmon, you know, sperm facial if you want it.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so is it actually anti-aging at all?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, in theory, I think the problem is you know, nobody's looked at people, you know, getting these and then been able to evaluate like what happens in the skin, right? Like what's going on with collagen? Did we see increased collagen because somebody got this facial three times a year, right? We just don't know. You know, and I think if they did more animal studies, maybe if they could demonstrate the pieces too, is it penetrating to get where it needs to go? How is it delivered? If it's not really regulated in there in studies, then you know, you're sometimes using an ingredient, but if it doesn't get to the scene of the crime, right, where it needs to have the action, is it really going to have the impact? So those are lots of questions with this. You know, I think around the safety and efficacy is the biggest piece. You know, people could be potentially, yes, allergic to some of the components used in the facial procedure, but people report definite improvements, especially like right after. You'll see this, you know, anecdotally and trendy, as you've probably seen people really highlight. And probably too, there's other components to the facial, probably humbectic properties, maybe hyaluronic acid has been used, other things that could explain some of what they're appreciating. But again, long-term benefits, not gonna have much information on. And again, I hate to go back to it, but it's just really we go back to our tried and true's, which you know, if somebody really wants to have you know stimulation of collagen and really help preservation of their skin. I'm gonna recommend that topical retinoid, sunscreen, and then also an antioxidant blend, vitamin C or a combination of others with it. That's where the data is. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00:I'm assuming these are pretty expensive.
SPEAKER_02:I uh yeah, I've seen some of the pricing. So we were actually looking around. A lot of them are at least a few hundred dollars, some of them are more than that. Uh again, overseas, I don't know what they're charging, but just some of the bigger metropolitan areas. It's fun, it's trendy, it's new. I think Jennifer Anderson might have gotten one. So, you know, I think, you know, once you have somebody in Hollywood jump on the bandwagon, you know, and promote it, of course, people are gonna be tempted to try it. And again, this is where I always talk about there's this risk benefit for a lot of patients. Like, what's the real risk? Well, you know, there's some potential risk with it not being regulated. You have to think about safety. Is it really gonna work? I don't know. Probably, you know, right now, not. We don't see the long-term evidence that's gonna be beneficial for you. But then people say, well, you know, what's the harm? I mean, maybe allergy, maybe some potential safety, you know, with irritation, those types of things. And so I tell you, you know, it's a risk benefit for the patient. A lot of times they go and get the facial because it's meditative and relaxing. And if you could probably get a basic facial, it's probably gonna provide you with the same benefits. Yes. And it's gonna be it's gonna be cheaper, right? Yeah. So I think in the end, it's it's one of those things that, you know, when patients want to talk about and hey, this is what we know, and it's not a lot, but if it's something you can afford and you want to try it, you just have to be ready for potentially some irritation, allergy factors, other things that could happen. Okay. But if you want to add it into what you're doing, it's just again not a replacement for those foundational pieces of your skincare.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Are there any facials you think are worth the money?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, it's hard to say if I would just say facials. I think what can be worth it is sometimes what they're adding into your facial procedures. So if you're somebody that would benefit, a lot of facials will include like a chemical peel, right? So sometimes they're gonna include, you know, something with beta hydro alpha hydroxyacids, beta hydroxyacids. They're gonna target if you have acne concerns, if you're gonna have anti-aging concerns, maybe dark spots, and they're gonna use a mandelic acid. So there can be benefits as a part of the facial procedure with some of those components. Definitely can be benefits too if people need some exfoliation, you know, where they can get off some of the dead skin cells. Uh, facials, though, can cause people to break out, as you probably know. So I always break out it's a lot of product, it's a lot of multi-layers. But I think what's, you know, facial as a whole, I tell people again, do we have data that facials are the NLBL? No, but some of the components that are offered, I think, throughout it could give some benefit to patients. The downside is a lot of what they do, it's a maintenance. Like a one-time, you know, treatment with glycolic acid isn't gonna get rid of your acne forever. Is it something maybe to add in again to your prescription treatment regimen? Potentially. And then there is, you know, the relaxing benefit. I tell you, there's a psychological benefit to people that get facials. They just feel better, right? Like, how relaxing? I mean, it's like I'm a zombie actually.
SPEAKER_01:A heated bed.
SPEAKER_02:So I'll tell you, yes, I'll go and get them. I think they can be nice add-in. But if you are using toccoletinoids, you gotta let them know because sometimes it does make you ultra-sensitive, the things they want to do in a facial. So you gotta make sure you let your esthetician know that too.
SPEAKER_01:Good to know.
SPEAKER_02:And they'll sometimes just ask, do you use retin A? They'll use the branded term. Okay. And they may not even ask, like, are you using retinol, retinaldehyde? Are you potentially using adaplene, tretinoin, tzerotine? They won't get specific. So I think you need to talk with your esthetician before and really find out again your unique skin needs and check with your dermatologist, too.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. I didn't know retin A was when you guys say that, I'm like, no, that's the fancy name for retinol.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's it's a it's a old, it's a brand new version of tretinoin. So and a lot of people, just because it was out, it was so popular, yeah. A lot of people just still call their tretinoin their retin A. Especially if they had retin A back in the day.
SPEAKER_00:The more you know, retin A back in the day. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I know, here you go.
SPEAKER_00:So salmon's from Facebook's trot or not.
SPEAKER_02:Not trot. Okay. I mean, I tell people, you know, it's I just think there's better bang for your buck, and we need to see some more evidence, I think, you know, on safety and efficacy. But again, it's just not something I'd have you waste time or money to start on, unless you just want to add it in and you get that, you know, meditative benefit.
SPEAKER_00:What was what is a favorite trend of yours that we did not go over today?
SPEAKER_02:I have to say it's hypochlorous acid spray because it's been all over the place. And you know I loved it, even before it was all over the place. And it's so interesting to me how it's just picked up in interest. And I love it because it's more than a single-duty dermatologic drug or medication, right? It does double, triple, quadruple duty. So my husband loved to use it as a spray. He does it on scalp post-shaving, so he doesn't break out. And then go to the gym, right? You don't have time to shower, spray your face, chest, back. Great post-workout so you don't break out. Armpits carry a little extra odor that you don't love. Great spray to use in the armpits. My five-year-old, his feet stink to high heaven. Great to spray on his feet as well. So I would have I love a product that can do multiple things. And so it's very inexpensive. You can get more expensive brands that are product a part of certain product lines. If you like a particular product line, you can get their version. But you can go to CVS or Walbreens and get like the$7,$8 version, put it in a spray, and it's great to travel, take with you. And I'll tell you another bonus as a dermatologist with wearing a mask a lot, especially in surgery, great preventative tool for mask knee, which I have not seen yet. Mask. So when we talk about it, you know, bring a masky back, you know, with you know, COVID. It actually can help kind of calm that down. Cause I think, tell me, when you wear that mask, it's like a geranium on your face, right? And so a lot of people still break out if they're in surgery all day or if you're sick and you're wearing a mask because you're just trying to, you know, I know, obviously be courteous to others. It's a nice kind of tool to kind of minimize some of those breakouts. Okay. And it's something that's just totally, I think it was underrated for years, and I'm glad it's made a comeback. It's like the comeback hit of 2025.
SPEAKER_00:Extra trot. Yeah, extra try. Bodies use hypochlorous acid. The whole family. So what trends do you think we'll see in 2026? Good or bad?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think the exciting thing that actually could be good and bad is the use of AI that I think will become more trendy, especially in offices. You know, we'll be talking about as much, maybe not. It's not going to replace us as dermatologists, but I think we're going to be able to really look, you know, at anyone's particular skin needs. Like first of all, interview, find out what do you not love, what do you not like, but then probably even look, you know, more at maybe even gene expression profiling or the molecular level of your skin, where it's at, you know, potentially the age of your skin, and how can we develop a plan that could work for you? And when I mean age, I don't mean age in the sense just brown lines or brown, you know, spots, wrinkles, that type of thing. But it's it's like the health. Like kind of we equate age more with not being healthy. But I think over time, what we're gonna see with longevity medicine is we're gonna equate aging, kind of being pro-aging. We're all gonna get older, but we're gonna have healthier lives as we do so. And I think what AI will help us do is have healthier skin as well. And it's just gonna be a tool we'll be able to use. So I'm excited to see where that goes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Do you think it makes it a lot more accessible? Because I think people are very scared of AI taking over. There's not much conversation with AI and healthcare. It's mainly like, how is AI riding our brains? We're using AI to replace things. So do you think it is going to make healthcare more accessible for people?
SPEAKER_02:It potentially could, you know, and AI is not gonna replace us. It is meant to be used with the dermatologist. So augmented intelligence is probably the better replacement. So that's when you're using AI with human intelligence together to actually, you know, provide a better service or skill. And I think that's where we're gonna do it. Because if you think of the just plethora of product that's out there, it just is overwhelming. And if you have you had a database of what's available, certain ingredients, certain benefits, even reviews, you know, down to a molecular level with somebody's skin needs, you can come up with all these interesting concoctions and things that actually might benefit patients. And if they don't like one, you can substitute another. And so I think that's where there'll be some benefit to put it together. And it's gonna simplify some of the craziness that surrounds skincare. Again, it won't be perfect. Nothing's gonna be perfect, but it's kind of an exciting way to use technology.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That is very exciting. That is all I have for you today.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thank you for joining us for the skincare trends of 2025. And stay tuned for the next episode of Derbotrotter. Don't swear about skincare.
