Meditation, Mitochondria, And Maybe A Little Botox

Join us for a deep dive into longevity with dermatologist Dr. Ted Lain. We unpack the difference between biological and chronological age, how epigenetic clocks work, and which habits actually support healthier aging — from building fitness and protecting sleep to managing stress and diet. We also look at emerging treatments and what’s truly evidence-based for skin, including antioxidants, retinoids, and sunscreen. If you want a clearer, science-grounded roadmap to aging well, this episode is for you.

Transcript

Aging Basics And Mitochondria

SPEAKER_02 0:00

As we age, the epigenome is very active and it turns on and off genes which are related to aging. It's very easy to show that as your mitochondrial dysfunction worsens, the cell's efficiency decreases and the cell ages because of that.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

You know, my health isn't as what I think it is, even though I might be an okay weight or I might look a certain way. What is truly my you know age marker? Like what does it look like for me?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Of course, healthy eating. We know that the Mediterranean diet, for example, is probably the most healthy diet uh for all of us to follow. Lots of vegetables, uh, very low in animal uh protein, except for mean fish.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Welcome to Dermit Trotter, Don't Swear About Skin Care, where host Dr. Shannon C. Trotter, a board-certified dermatologist, sits down with fellow dermatologists and skincare experts to separate fact from fiction and simplify skincare. Let's get started.

Defining Longevity Medicine

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Welcome to the Dermitrotter, Don't Swear About Skin Care podcast. Today we have a very exciting topic. We're going to talk about longevity medicine and we've got the perfect person to bring on today, Dr. Ted Lane. He's a board-certified dermatologist at Sonova Dermatology. He's an expert in cosmetic dermatology and also has a special interest in longevity medicine. So welcome to the podcast, Ted.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Oh, thank you, Dr. Trotter. I'm really excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Well, we're excited to have you because this is a hot topic, and people today more than ever want to know how they can live longer, but more importantly, live healthier longer as well. So this whole concept of longevity medicine has kind of come onto the scene, you know, from our side. But I think for our listeners out there, a lot of them might not even know what that means or even think about, you know, what context for me is that going to help me as I get older? So I wanted you to kind of explain a little bit more about what is longevity medicine? Sort of these terms we've heard thrown around, like now it's, you know, not anti-aging, but we're pro-aging and health span and things like that. What do they really mean?

Prevention Over Reaction

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Well, I think it's easiest for us to understand longevity medicine if we just take out the word longevity and put in the word preventative, because that's really what we're talking about. And, you know, for so many years, decades, longevity medicine has been kind of on the fringe of Western medicine. We kind of know it's there. This idea of wellness doctors has popped up in the last 10 to 20 years. We know some of our patients, more and more of our patients, really, are starting to use wellness doctors as their primary care doctors, and they're starting to do these crazy hormonal checks and they're starting to take all these supplements, and we're thinking, what's going on? Then you've got Peter Atia, who wrote the book uh and has his podcast also here in Austin, and that really brought more of the longevity/slash wellness space into the forefront of people's minds. And and that's what got me excited about it, Shannon. And I started doing a lot of research in it, and I realized early on that oh gosh, this is great for medicine writ large because we're really talking about prevention. And the worst thing we do in the US as a health system is focus on prevention, right? We're so reactive. We're so reactive. And now we can really refocus and reframe all of medicine into being proactive. And that's why I love longevity medicine because it pushes us squarely into the proactive, holistic um taking care of our patients approach, uh, which to me is is where we should be anyway. And I think patients, it resonates with patients so much because they love that idea as well.

Chronological Vs Biologic Age

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, I agree with you. There's this trend as a whole, I think, for patients coming in and many of our listeners out there that have asked about this concept of longevity medicine, like how can I just live my best life, but my best healthiest life if that's such a thing, because they don't want to be stuck in a state of chronic disease and the problems that we do see, you know, whether that's you know, on the heart side with cardiovascular disease or even on the skin side, where people are concerned about, you know, how they potentially even look the vanity side of it, but it really does tell, you know, the inside of what's happening with the body too, and just even how our skin looks. If you think about it too, I think a lot of people are like, okay, well, you know, I'm 50 years old, you know, is it too late for me, or I'm 25 years old, or I'm 80 years old? You know, we always talk about our biological age, like how old we are. But like, what's the difference between that and what people talk about, their true like metabolic age or chronological age, or again, going back to biological age? What's the difference between all of those?

Aging As A Disease

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Well, so the biologic aging is you know how your body is functioning based on the age that you are. And we look at that in in different ways. There are what we call biologic clocks that we can use. The most common is called the epigenetic clock. The epigenome is really what dictates which genes turn on and off. If you think about it, all of our cells have the exact same genes, right? But yet one cell is a neuron in the brain and the other one is a uh osteoblast in the bone, right? So one kind of transmits signals, the other one makes bone. How are they so different yet have the exact same genetic material? And the answer is the epigenome. It turns on and off genes. Well, as we age, the epigenome is very active and it turns on and off genes which are related to aging. And I think at this point we need to start thinking about aging not as a process, but as a disease, because when you start thinking it as a disease, you can start preventing it and treating it. And that's another reframing that we are currently in the process of doing. So the chronological aging and the biologic aging, you know, we used to think of it as they should match throughout their life, right? If they're not matching, if you are chronologically aging slower than your biologic aging, so you're a smoker, you go outside, you get tons of sun exposure, you're very stressed, you have poor sleep, poor diet, you use the recreational drugs too much, all of it. That that can lead to an imbalance in the chronological versus biological. But let's flip that, which is where we all want to be. How do we slow our biologic aging to be much slower than our chronologic aging, such that you truly could be 80, but your body has the epigenetic clock of a 60-year-old, for example? That's what we're focused on. That that imbalance to tilt it more towards favoring the slowing of the biologic aging. I mean, we can't we can't slow chronologic aging, right? So the biologic aging is where we're really focused on. And a subset of the biologic aging, Shannon, is the metabolic aging, right? And as we age, the metabolic syndrome, the metabolic conditions that we associate with aging, higher risk of type 2 diabetes, like, for example, high blood pressure, um uh insulin resistance, uh, uh all the metabolic syndrome, um, um, you know, adiposity, uh, gaining weight, all of that is related to the aging, the aging disease, where we start losing muscle, we have an imbalance there, we our metabolic uh uh rate declines. And so we really tilt towards it's so easy for us to biologically age faster because nature is against us in some ways unless we fight back. And so that's kind of where we we swat chronological versus biological versus minimal.

GLP-1s And Prevention

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, I think we can all attest to that. We've had friends that maybe were similar ages, but maybe just physically we look very different or we have different health issues, yet maybe chronologically we're actually the same age. But that's influenced, as you mentioned, by genetics, lifestyle, choices we all make. And definitely one of the things I like to highlight is stress. It's amazing to me how stress, physical or emotional stress to the body can age people significantly without them even realizing it. And I think it's gonna be somewhat, you know, interesting how people perceive aging as a disease. That's one thing I wanted to highlight that you brought up because there are people like, oh, you know, I'm gonna age gracefully and aging's okay. I'm embracing my aging. And I think aging as a disease, though, really isn't contradictory to that. I think you can still embrace that, but still be at your best health and, like you said, focus on prevention so that you know you're addressing that. But I think some people when they think disease, you know, they get that such a negative connotation. I'll be curious how some people respond to aging in the sense of a disease. But I like that you label it that way because then I think we address it in a more aggressive way instead of something we just necessarily have to accept. Would you agree, like with that approach?

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Oh, totally. And and that's that's exactly how I think we need to, at least in our society, we have to reframe it that way because we are so focused on disease. That for us to say, oh, it's a condition or it's a process, that doesn't really mean anything to the medical society. But if we say it's a disease, then doctors are like, oh, I can that's what I do. I treat diseases. So that kind of resonates with doctors that puts aging squarely aligned with everything else that we deal with on a day-to-day basis in the clinic or in the hospital in the operating room. Um, so I think it's it's important for muscle different reasons.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

And I'd like to take it one step further. The other reason I like the fact that you label aging or describe it as a disease is that I think it will force payers and insurance companies to address it more aggressively because they're good at covering some preventative services. But as you know, I mean, we still don't even have level evidence enough for a skin exam with the U.S. Preventive Task Force Services to give that as a regular routine screen to show the benefit. That I think, you know, with aging as a disease state, it will also work to the advantage maybe for insurance companies and payers to really focus on that prevention aspect instead of waiting for a condition to actually happen to develop heart disease. Instead, we focus on prevention. How do we change that metabolic state for our patients?

SPEAKER_02 9:53

I think the analog for 2025 is the GLP1 agonists, right? Where there's, as you know, now we've got the the ability to really acquire those for a reasonable cost, right? The lowest dose is about, I think,$150 a month, which is relatively reasonable, although probably not where it should be, given how much these drugs can help so many different people. But by by targeting that, by decreasing the cost and focusing the cost on these GLP1 agonists, they're really preventative, aren't they? Because they're lowering the the uh the fat contents of the body, they're altering that ratio between muscle and fat. That helps to fix metabolic syndrome, plus their anti-inflammatory effects and all these other epigenetic effects they have. So they sit squarely in the longevity space. And so whether we realize it or not, we're kind of rotating this aircraft carrier slowly but slowly and focusing more on prevention and longevity, even as we look at it through the GOP1 agonist framework reference.

Pillars And Hallmarks Of Aging

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Yeah, very timely for that. And in longevity medicine, you know, as I've developed sort of an interest in, I think inspired by you and attending, you know, your conference, and also because I tease, I'm I'm a geriatric mom. I'm definitely an older mom, you know, first baby at 39, last one at 44. You know, I want to be around, right? For my kids. I want to be healthy, I want to be present. And so I think that's really forced me to look at my health from the standpoint of what I can do to be the best health I can, to be here on this planet for them and to see all those things in life that I hope that they go through. When we talk about longevity medicine, you know, when I was kind of doing research, I was reading about sort of these pillars. I don't know if they're generally accepted, but talking about, you know, mitochondrial function, inflammation in the immune system, the gut microbiome, you know, also looking at hormonal health, cognitive, you know, our mental resilience and brain function as well. I was gonna have you touch upon those because some of our listeners might be like, mitochondria, what the heck is even that? And, you know, and how does that play a role? Because a lot of people may not understand how that's so relevant for the aging process.

Mitochondria And Senescence

Testing Your Epigenetic Age

SPEAKER_02 11:54

So you're touching on something called the hallmarks of aging, which are, depending on which article you're reading, 13 to 15 different targets that are part of the aging as a disease process. Okay. Now, to be a hallmark, it has to be something that is associated with aging, that in experiments, when accelerated, uh, it accelerates the aging process. So, as for example, if we focus on mitochondria, and really think about mitochondria as the engine of your cell, right? Every cell has to have the generation of energy in order to function appropriately. Well, where does that energy come from? And it comes from the mitochondria. There's something called a crema cycle, and the cremo cycle is what produces your ATP. Your ATP is the gas that fuels the engine of the cell. So if we think about mitochondrial dysfunction as one of the hallmarks of aging, it's very easy to show that as your mitochondrial dysfunction worsens, the cell's efficiency decreases and the cell ages because of that. Now, it to be a hallmark of aging, it also has to be reversed, and the reverse has to hold true as well. So, can we target mitochondrial dysfunction, reverse it, and by doing so show that the cell acts younger? And that is the case for that. So when we look at the hallmarks of aging, many of which you mentioned, they're all associated with the aging process, but also therapeutic targets to reverse aging as well. Um, so mitochondria is one and such an important target. You'll see so many different skincare uh ingredients, for example, focused on that, lots of different supplements and ingestibles focused on that as well. And then there are lifestyle changes that we can make to improve our mitochondrial function. Many of these we talked about are intracellular, you know, cellular senescence, which is associated with the cell becoming what I consider it a zombie state, where the cell is neither alive nor dead. It enters this kind of intermediate state, which would be fine, except for that a senescent cell releases a uh group of chemicals that cause inflammation. Uh, and so unfortunately, senescence tends to amplify the inflammaging that you talked about, the inflammation associated with aging. And so that's another target in the hallmarks of aging. If we can reduce the number of senescent cells, we could reduce the inflammation, which helps us act and function much more and much younger. So those are the hallmarks of aging, as you said. So we actually have the roadmap is right there in terms of what we need to do to address the disease of aging. We we just have to target these hallmarks, and that's what science is doing currently.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

So I know a lot of people by listening are probably thinking out there, okay, uh, does my biologic or metabolic age, you know, match my chronological age? You know, you've got my attention that maybe, you know, my health isn't as what I think it is, even though I might be an okay weight or I might look a certain way. What is truly my you know, age marker? Like, what does it look like for me? Are there things available if people are interested? Like, are there biomarkers or commercial tests? If they're like, I just want to know where do I sit biologically, you know, and what can I do to actually improve, you know, my health span over time?

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Absolutely. There's lots of companies out there that have their own proprietary epigenetic clocks where they look at um epigenetic clock is really focused on the methylation of the DNA. Methylation, in a if a methyl group is attached to the DNA, it turns on and off the genes associated with that DNA. And so by looking at the different methylation patterns, the company can assess the age based on which genes are turned on and off and how that's associated with biologic and chronologic aging. So you can Google epigenetic clock and you'll see lots of different companies. And you can order one of the tests, you do a little swab inside your cheek, just get some DNA and you send it in, uh, and they will give you the your results on their epigenetic clock. The frustrating thing is that you probably could order three or four of these from different companies, and your results might be very different between them. So you kind of have to hit your wagon to one of them, really, and focus that one as you because you'll want to serially test this, right? So let's say you day one, you do your epigenetic clock, it says your X number of years. You want to make interventions and then determine if those have made a difference based on that same epigenetic clock. Uh and so that that's that's how you you do it.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Fascinating. And so I take it, and then again, at this point, something that patients are paying out of pocket if they want something like this. This isn't something that insurance companies are looking at to cover to get a better idea of overall health. And I'm guessing because there's so many of them hard to validate, then which one would be the best one to use?

Lifestyle First, Then Drugs

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Exactly. And they're different costs as well. So I I would not be able to support one versus the other. I just, we don't have head-to-head studies. I'd love for that to happen to determine which one's really correct. But then you need a frame of reference, Shannon, right? And so what's our frame of reference to determine that? Um, so it's somewhat of a buyer beware culture right now in this longevity space. But I think that you know, that some of the most popular ones that are out there, I think they probably have the most data because they've had the most tests, right? It's much like an AI large learning model. If you, you know, the larger the data supply that you input into this large learning model, probably the better the results are gonna be. So I'd I'd look for something that's a lot that's probably one of the more popular ones.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Well, I'll I'm gonna have to look into doing one of those. I'm just curious out of, you know, just to see where I'm gonna lay, you know, with or lie, I should say, you know, with those results. I'll have to get some information from you when we're done about some of those opportunities. But I know we talked about some of those like, you know, pillars or concepts behind longevity medicine. And you mentioned, you know, this is where we're looking at therapeutic targets. And and I read a lot about different things that are being you know studied or potentially even recommended to patients. You already mentioned the GLP ones, which we could touch upon again. You know, I've heard some rumblings about people using metformin, rapamyosin, uh, nicotinamide or different forms of it, or NAD, um, even focusing on like gut microbiome health, how they can actually you know change that over time. Can you give us sort of an overview of kind of that broad landscape of some of the therapeutics that are out there and maybe what the data suggests on potentially utilizing them?

Rapamycin, Metformin, And Safety

Supplements, Regulation, And Vetting

SPEAKER_02 18:13

You know, I might even back up a step further if it's okay with you, just because I think there's lots of things that that listeners could do to improve their longevity that have nothing to do with going to see a doctor. Um, so there are kind of the pillars of longevity really focus on stress management, improvement of sleep, exercise, and nutrition. And if you if you start focusing on those four, you can do a heck of a lot to improve your health, both as prevention of chronic disease, but also as reversal of what's going on with your cells right now. Um, it you know the wonderful thing about AI is that you could you could put into your AI model, look, I'm a 51-year-old male, I've got these issues, I weigh this much based on my height. What's the best exercise routine for me to enhance my longevity? And you'll get something based on data that pops up. Uh, nutrition, same thing. Uh, certainly labs do help, you know, to determine if there's deficiency in any way, but I don't think any doctor would say it's a bad idea for you to take a vitamin every day, a multivitamin every day. Um, and I think that can fix a lot of the any kind of nutritional deficiency. And then, of course, healthy eating. We know that the Mediterranean diet, for example, is probably the most healthy diet uh for all of us to follow. Lots of vegetables, uh, very low in animal uh protein, except for lean fish. Uh so that's an easy one to follow as well. So meditation as well as other opportunities to enhance your sleep and decrease your so your stress. So if you wanted to really focus on something relatively simple where you don't need a lot of extra input, those four things will go a long way. Now, to to really answer your question, and sorry to be long winded, but to really answer your question, um Rapamycin, there's a one of the hallmarks of aging is mTOR, which is the mammalian target of rapamycin, M T O R. And that's in every cell. And it's considered a nutrient sensing regulatory mechanism. So the cells have mTOR to determine whether they have enough nutrients or energy to perform as they should. If they don't, then uh certain things happen inside the cells, which actually are anti-inflammatory, which is why we talk about intermittent fasting so much with longevity, because intermittent fasting tends to target mTOR. MTOR leads to some beneficial things that happen in the cell that decrease inflammation. Rapamycin is the mammalian target of rapamycin. So rapamycin is an agonist of mTOR. And so there's lots of talk, especially, gosh, I don't know, 10 or 15 years ago, about microdosing rapamycin in order to induce the beneficial effects of targeting mTOR. The problem is rapamycin is also a putting immunosuppressive, and as we know, you know, immunosuppression, especially chronically, can lead to an increased risk of some cancers, including lymphomas. So I think a lot of people who were doing some microdosing probably aren't doing that anymore as more data has come out. And we're not even sure what the right dose is to induce any kind of change in the cell, especially when taken systemically. There are some really interesting studies when rapamycin or cerilimus, which is an analog of rapamycin, have been formulated topically and applied to the skin. We see some really nice results there. So I, you know, I think we're seeing some companies come into that space which are formulating their rapamycin topically. Um in terms of metformin, yes, there's some great mouse data to show that mice, especially diabetic mice, when treated with metformin, have a longer lifespan than mice treated with like glucophage, for example, a different uh uh diabetic drug. And now we're looking at for healthy individuals, there's studies ongoing as to whether metformin does uh enhance longevity. It's it's very difficult to test longevity, Shannon, because it's a longitudinal study, right? It's super expensive and very long. And so we try and use some kind of cellular biomarkers as as uh analogs to longevity for us to make these studies a little bit shorter. And so there are drugs like that. We talked about GLP1 and Agamus. We're going to start doing lots of different research in other drugs that are available. You can imagine some of the drugs that we use for psoriasis, right? If as we decrease IL-17 or L-23, does that have epigenetic effects? We we know that after one dose of some of these drugs, we see a change in the transcriptome. In other words, which genes are are turned on and off or being transcribed or not. Um, so there is some interest there. So I think we're at the very tip of the iceberg in terms of understanding the therapeutic options we have for longevity. And then there's this whole other bucket of supplements, which uh talking about biorbeware. It's it's really, really bad. And I and I think um it's really bad in that there's no regulatory agency that that really tests all of these. So it one uh pearl for people if you're really interested in supplements and want to start diving into those, you get buy a subscription to consumerlabs.com. Consumer Labs is a third party, it really does a great job at giving some advice on different um supplements of testing these supplements for contamination. So I rely on Consumer Labs. I think they do a great job.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Bun, we talked more about overall, you know, health and metabolic state, and then touched a little bit on topical raphamycin for the skin. What other things for the skin would you recommend? Because there's a lot of, you know, you know, noise out there about peptides and exosomes, and of course, topical retinoids, we've been there for a while, or other antioxidants, you know, like vitamin C and things like that. What are you telling your patients about what you think they should be doing for their skin?

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Certainly, antioxidants are the are foundational, right? We just know so much about the harmful effect of reactive oxygen species, which are these chemicals that cause more and more damage, and there's somewhat of a spiraling effect. Once they get started, they beget more reactive oxygen species, and it just kind of takes over. So uh antioxidants will help to stop that spiral of reactive oxygen species, and they're super important. Vitamin C, of course, being probably the most important one to apply to the skin. Um, I I do think retinoids have have um long have an effect on longevity, uh, in addition to their incredibly studied uh beneficial effects on the skin. So I still consider retinoids as a foundational ingredient. And then it gets a little bit hazy, doesn't it? Because we've got lots of companies jumping into kind of um what we call the secretone, which are the ingredients and the products that are produced by stem cells while they're in culture. And the idea is stem cells, boy, their whole job is to make new younger cells. And so they are so biologically active in a good way, right? They're you especially if you're you're looking at your bone marrow stem cells, for example, they're meant to produce all these wonderful bone marrow cells that we need. Wouldn't we think that the chemicals they produce would be beneficial? I mean, they're they're trying to induce the growth of these new cells. So isn't that what we want to do to our own skin? Is is make it younger, induce growth of newer, younger cells. The question is, what in the tran in that secretome is is most responsible for that? And and do they work synergistically or or can we find one chemical in there that's the most important? And so there's a lot of studies ongoing for that as well. So I think it's I would stick to the right now, I would really focus on antioxidants and retinoids, and in terms of a lot of the others, I think a lot of them do work. I study a lot of them in my research lab. I think a lot of them do work, but I can't tell you exactly why they work. Uh, and and so if you're someone that wants to know why is this working, I want to make sure I understand it. We're not necessarily there yet, but we know that that a lot of them do work and have beneficial effects on the skin.

Exercise, VO2 Max, And Real Talk

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Well, I think this is just fascinating. This whole talk, you know, I mean, just getting more involved with longevity medicine for, I don't know, it's just to feel more comfortable with it. And like you said, approaching aging as a disease state that we can really tackle and address. And we don't have to necessarily just accept it, but we can live healthy lives or, you know, that health span that we talk about. Sounds like some of the old tried and true is what you're recommending. So getting that exercise, good sleep, you know, good diet, following the Mediterranean diet where we know the data's at, managing stress, all the things that I think that we've known for years are still ringing true. Um, and then we definitely have advancements that we're making with therapeutics out there. Now, our listeners are probably wondering this is a space you're in, you're interested. I'm sure you're doing the things we just talked about. What else are you doing, Ted, in the last few seconds we have here? What's your secret to seeing so darn young looking? People are probably like, what's his age out there if they're watching this video?

Closing Notes And Disclaimers

SPEAKER_02 27:21

I mean, I'm the 51-year-old male that I just talked about. Um, I look, I think you've got to be careful, right? Anybody that talks about longevity, it uh they aren't just following kind of what they talk about. Like I've got a ton of Botox in this face, you know. So let's just be honest, right? You know, when when you're looking at all these, you know, supposed influencers in longevity, don't just think that they're running twice a week and that's what they're doing. There's a lot of other things going on there. No, but I use a lot of the skincare that I talked about. I I really think exercise is probably the most important thing that we can do, both for cardiovascular purposes. We know that VO2 max correlates with longevity more than anything else. So making sure you're getting in your cardiovascular fitness as well as resistance training. And it's hard to do that, guys. It's it's really hard to fit all that in in a busy schedule. And then you start thinking about meditation before sleep because we know how important meditation is. Oh, it's just incredible. It's mind-blowing the beneficial effects of meditation. Uh, you know, I try and incorporate all of them in there with minimal supplements, and and I, but I am microdosing a GLP1. I am microdosing all stars epidite because I absolutely believe in the beneficial effects of that.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Fascinating. Well, thank you for sharing that personal side because I'm sure people are wondering, what is he doing? You know, and and I think it is, you know, a process. We're figuring this all out. You know, for those of you out there interested, you know, meet with a doc that specializes in longevity medicine. There are several folks out there that are looking at this, you know, and making sure that you're making smart decisions about your health. And obviously, now we think of as health span. Any closing remarks, you know, Ted, for the future or where we're having?

SPEAKER_02 28:57

You know, Shannon, I would just say that everything that I talked about today does not substitute for medical advice from a professional, right? This was all kind of informational and not meant to diagnose or treat at all. Uh, and and please, I talk about these things in general terms, but as Dr. Trotter said, please reach out to your own primary care doctor, your the your medical professionals that you trust to talk about you individually because what we talked about is all informative.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

That sounds good. And like Ted said, a little meditation of Botox can go a long way as well. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate you sharing your time and expertise with us today.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Oh, Shannon, it was been my pleasure. I still support you. I love what you're doing here, and congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Thank you so much. And stay tuned for the next episode of Dermotrotter. Don't swear about skincare.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Thanks for listening to Dermot Trotter. For more about skincare, visit dermittrotter.com. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this podcast with anyone who needs a little skincare sanity. Until next time, stay skin smart.